View Full Version : Neocron is....
Many of you will have heard that several MMORPGs have closed their doors in recent times. Just a few days ago another AAA title, Tabula Rasa, announced that it will be closing down soon.
However, Neocron is still alive and has outlived many other MMORPGs. There has to be a reason for this and we'd like to know your thoughts.
We would like to hear in your words why you think Neocron has withstood the test of time. What brings you back to play the game again and again after all these years? What is so special about Neocron compared to other MMORPGs?
its all about the sex(emote)
oh and OP fights and pvp system
you arent used to do quest over quest for lvling ect ect
and at least the ppl am hangin out with
It's fairly unique - first person for a start.
It has a VERY good tradeskilling system, which also levels up your character (not done by most MMO's). Yes it has a few flaws, but on the whole, better than most.
Penalty for death is quite low compared to others (eve for example), but not as kind as others (wow). Its a good balance.
Classes are both well defined, yet versatile. You dont need 9 classes, just 4 flexible ones.
What is impeading Neocron? Lack of support, low population, bugs. I have spoken to alot of ex-croners since ive been back and most said "if it was NC1 I would come back". I agree with them, to a certain extent. I preferred the models, animations, rpos, stats and my monk from NC1. I feel like KK changed alot too quickly, and I was double hit as hybrid monks are now laughable - im lomming mine to be a poker for late night crys of "ZOMG 115 POKE PLZ"
I have a list of improvements that I feel would generally improve the quality of the game. Is there anywhere I can send said list?
One has to suspect low costs play a part in it. At the time it closes, Tabula Rasa will probably still have a higher population than Neocron has for years. Yet while NC carries on, TR is shut down because of not enough players.
Lack of answering to big corporate overlords who expect WoW-number players probably is a factor again. (spoilers for them: in an increasingly crowded marketplace, it is unlikley that any ONE game will again get that much of the marketplace.) Yes, 10T had work on a new game begun - but presumably they paid for htat to happen.
Add on to that the fact that Neocron still has a lot more unique factors than any other MMORPG you could care to name:
A passable illusion of FPS combat
A profession-independent levelling system. Hell, a levelling and skill system with 5 completely independent stats all of which level seperatly and effect many differen things and alloctable skill points. Don't know any other MMO that even approaches this.
No instancing.
Complex faction relationship system.
Pretty comprehensive vehicle system
And so on
Crazypsifookar
24-11-08, 19:57
For some reason the reason i never stop playing is because of the small comuntity so eveyone seems to now eveyone which is good.
But the main things i liked is that
the op fights are nothing like any others
first person shooter
the game is better to lvl on then other shit games like wow(QUEST WICH ARE SHIT)
tbh i have played this game for many years now and evey time i play its never the same cuz of new poeple
But the only problem i have is hackers they spoil the game at the mo but anyways its fun to play sammers cuz they dnt allways win and then there stright on ooc
But anyways POWER TO NEOCON
AND LONG LIVE AFTER DARK
regards Beldaran
Neocron.. The game's atmosphere is great. The music fits each zone in my opinion and gives you the little extra atmosphere of a sci-punk mmo.
At a first glance, it seems like there's a lot to do in Neocron and there is, well sort of anyway :D, it makes Neocron huge for the first comer and there is much to learn.
The PVP system is good where character stats plays a huge role unlike many other mmos! Outpost wars is one of the best multiplayer experiences I've ever had in my life and I miss them A LOT. It was really fun to group up with several groups of people, make alliances with other clans and go to war and then eventually get backstabbed by your own so called allies :). It would get anyone hooked to the game.
There are a few trade skills in Neocron, so the game is also suitable for the trader kinda guy and those are needed :lol:.
I've not played Neocron for years but I still hang out in this forum because I still have hope for Neocron. I don't play Neocron because of the low population (I'm here for the big op wars...) and yes I know I could raise the server population by one but I don't find the current state of Neocron appealing at the moment and that will make me not play the game so why should I bother wasting money if I don't play, seems pretty logical to me ;).
Neocron has been and probably still is the best MMO (PVP & PVE) I've ever played and hopefully it'll get back on it's feet :cool:!
Big thanks to Reakktor for giving me all the excitement Neocron has given me in my life.
What always brings me back (I have been playing for 5 years now) is that you have to level your characters and there are plenty of stats you need to combine to make a good setup. Once you are high level (and actually, at any level), you have high range of weapons available and you can choose your one.
The character setup you create will really influence the fights you will do against other players and that's also what I like. Moreover, there is a cap (which is not too hard to reach) and when you have reached it, you are ready to fight for good (WoC 1 makes a little difference but WoC 3 is not needed) and that's appreciable you don't have to spend years to capp 1 char, you can try the all specs and love them all.
In fact, I love the setup your character + mmofps thing. (fight 1v1 or in teams)
I could add things and I will but I don't have time right now ...
Neocron power
The perfect mix of rpg and fps in pve and pvp is fantastic.
Because there aren't elves.
And when I come across some newb out in the middle of the wastelands leveling on some 30/30s...it really takes me back to some good times. It's nice to stop, help him out a little...give him some money, and then go about my way to let him experience things.
Hell-demon
25-11-08, 02:07
It's unique.
No other game like neocron. It could be better if it were patched..... :rolleyes:
NC is everything that the others games aren't like FUN, really PVP, very creative, Godly OLD and BUGGY! and most of my friends play this game... and tha atmosphere that this game brings to me is so much that there is no word to express my feeling...
==>Make new game engine re-do the skins and etc but keep the game system as it is might ask for the community in a poll what to add or not... cheers make the game to be opengl rendering! linux users will thank you! (starting by me!) Cheers
Sharper Blade
25-11-08, 04:14
Entertaining..You can pvp, go leveling, chat with buds in p1, explore the wastes, decorate an appy, trash talk, make a great setup and lord it over everyone that they should kneed down to you, There's always something to do as long as theres people playing.
I made a thread here (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?t=125302) back in 2005 asking the same question. Its interesting to read as the responses are very similar.
It shows that Neocron's appeal is largely the same. The only changes are now the much lower population, caused by familiarity, low expectation of change, and many players getting too old and busy to play anymore!
For what its worth, Op wars are what have kept me in the game since launch, I hope we get more people online over the holidays to get the op scene more active again.
First thing to my mind would be the atmosphere. It just feels right and a lot better compared to every other game i tried. Drugs, sex and danger just around every corner.
Also the pvp, being one of the very few games where you actually need to aim and not just have to click buttons in the right order. I also like that while you do lose items on death, it's neither as harsh as for example eve nor without any real consequences like death in wow.
The itemization is neat, getting stuff for pvp is challenging but never too hard. This actually is my biggest problem with most games these days. It always comes down to getting the latest and best items just to stay competitive. Too many items are a bad thing. At least if those give you an edge in pvp.
The sex emote.
Apartments.
The community. Even though i've actually never seen so many complete fucktards in one game, i also never again met so many cool people. :lol:
Last but not least a (sadly too small) group of devs and mods and GMs and whatnot really caring about their game. :angel:
Neocron isn't a massively financed project with sky-high expectations (lord british, lol), as such it can carry on with a smaller playerbase. Tabula Rasa had lots of money pumped into design and advertisement and it didn't reach the desired target, instead of dumping more money into a project NCsoft canned it.
Neocron is a comparitively small operation, that's the only reason it's still up and going - much like The Realm (http://www.realmserver.com/).
The fact that is was and still is one of the most unique MMOFPS games with such a loyal community is what I believe is responsible for Neocron living so long !
And may it last many more years !
Tyler_Durdon
25-11-08, 21:31
-a very old and very nice clan
-the pvp and its system
-the fact that you can log in and log out whenever you want without having stress
for example in another game, (with elves...) if you want to pve, you have to invest a lot of time to be successfull. farming every day, lvling very much to get better equip and and and. you need 25 ppl to have fun in a game.
-the fact that you can log in and log out whenever you want without having stress
for example in another game, (with elves...) if you want to pve, you have to invest a lot of time to be successfull. farming every day, lvling very much to get better equip and and and. you need 25 ppl to have fun in a game.
This actually, is a great point. I liked that I could go out and play in a world all on my own, or find a team if wanted. It seems like all the other MMOs are so team focused that it really takes away from the experience for me. Sometimes I just want to be in a world all of my own.
Honestly, its the community. I may have not logged into the game in ages, but I still check out the forums regularly, even though I may not always post :)
Good luck to everyone, I'll be sneaking around :)
Neocron is the only MMORPG I have ever been addicted to.
There are several reasons for that, the main one being it's former total immersion for me. I could happily get lost in, and live in Neocron daily.
- There's also the dire need to improve at PvP. No matter how good I became, playing it daily, I always wanted to become better than everyone else.
Arguably, this is something shared across all MMORPGs, but with Neocron, the PvP system is complex on so many levels, and requires actual reactional based skill.
What keeps me coming back, however, is the community. Although I'm not half as well known as I was in 2004, still, whenever I return, I am welcomed back with open arms.
I have made several friends in Neocron, and met some people I will never forget. Oh, and they're almost all mature. No ridiculous kids.
Neocron for me, is the best multiplayer game I have every played. Nothing ever came close.
The only major negative is the lack of updates. More updates would bring more people back to the game, thus improving your profits, and ensuring it's continued survival.
Long live Neocron, and all that.
Hmm.
One thing, it's totally 'free' - in the gameworld sense of the word. Want to make a fucked up setup? Go for it, you may hit gold. Want to run to MB though you've just rolled a new guy? Go for it, you can do it if you're careful. None of this bs where a mob you absolutely cannot kill pops up to keep you where you should be (I'm looking straight at WoW here) - it's so open ended.
Another one, which I can't quite believe I'm saying... is the people :p
The people that like Neocron seem to be of a particular type - for the main part - we all share a similar, fucked up sense of humour, and that really is unique to NC, as far as I can tell. For all the shit-talking and nonsense that goes on, put (again.. for the main part) the worst sworn enemies in a room together, and you can bet they strike up a rapport on some level.
Part of that is due to (or perhaps I'm mixing up cause and effect...) the small community here, and KK are part of that community too. Where else would the head honcho pop up and announce to the server he's making Assman drop his pants? Where else would we find the immortal and defiant reply "We never said NC was for pussies", to a negative review? You get the distinct impression that KK are just like us: just ever so slightly fucked up, in a good way :p
It's odd to see a KK employee ask why NC is still around.
Obviously, someone at KK's done the numbers and it's still financially viable to keep it running, for one reason or another.
Why don't you tell us why NC's still operating?
Obviously, someone at KK's done the numbers and it's still financially viable to keep it running, for one reason or another.
Why don't you tell us why NC's still operating?
Thank you :)
Neocron is... only around because KK has continued to let it run, presumably in someone's basement ;)
But Ice is right - the real question is a turn-around to KK:
In a market where most MMOs are shut down if they don't maintain a # of active subscribers, why has Reakktor left NC up and running? Realistically, Neocron isn't really "alive and well" but it is definitely still here. And currently, KK isn't making a penny of anyone's account... so it begs the above question.
More crap MMOs titles are being produced every year without a single original idea. The good game ideas that aren't a simply copy & skin versions of WoW - Tribes, Neocron, Planetside, TR - never seem to be revised into sequels or updated versions, which I really don't get.
If a UT3 Engine Version of Tribes came out, thousands would play.
If NC came out with a new engine, mostly-seamless world, and a the half-dozen features it really need to compete in the MMO market, it would gobble up the non-fantasy side of the market.
Planetside is still active after all these years - I played in a 100 vs 100 vs 100 fight for hours over a continent just last night and had a blast. Yet no word of a Planetside 2...
The MMO market just confuses me. Games like TR get shut down and WoW-clones like f'ing Aion get released. What makes developers think it would be easier to STEAL players from a well established and growing fanbase rather than consolidate all the lost non-fantasy players? And what's even more boggling - who are the f'ing idiot that think it's a good idea to INVEST in these games? I know it sounds ideal to get a piece of the WoW action, but it's not going to happen. Isn't that obvious by now? o_O
[/rant]
One interesting thing (http://www.planettr.com/forums/showpost.php?p=129552&postcount=42) from over at the TR Forums:
Dirty little secret: I played Neocron a lot... Really... A _LOT_... Are SciFi MMOs a bad bet? This is a dev asking the players.
Added: of course I got my own Ideas... but I want to read yours.
Bozz-Von Mel
26-11-08, 23:43
Well for one its 'free' right now. That overcomes what has been the biggest issue which has kept me from staying. The payment methods are just too painfull. What kept it going during NC 1 and early NC2 was the support was good and plenty of involvement from the staff, GM etc. (patches, new content)
Even after all that went away the game is still fun and most of the community is cool. Just like others have stated, you can come and go as you please, no need to wait around for hours to do raids, missions, etc.
i first played neocron in beta two, and i got addicted to it pretty damn fast back then, hell i still remember the feelings when exploring the world back then, my first pk, my first rare wep dropped from a pvp kill, was all very strong feelings, hell this is like the only game i got emotionally tied with due to the adrenaline it gave back then ... personally for me neocron two stripped alot of that away :/ cant really explain why, it just did... it still lives because no other game has that ... its not just the game though, its the universe, the setting of neocron, story, classes etc, the feeling of the world ...
one thing i would like to see though when everything financially levels out for you guys would be to effectively scrap the current engine your working with (is it still genesis ?) and to start from the ground up, remaking the same universe, only with seamless zoning, and graphics from this decade... the core to the rpg system behind neocron is soorted out, personally i feel what holds it back now is that it looks really dated, and the 'neocron 2' release didnt help things much with that, the whole 'updated graphics' thing basically went unnoticable, lost in a shitload of new grass decals and awful avatar models ...
specranator
27-11-08, 08:51
the PVP system is one of a kind, even though its not a true FPS they did a decent job in the way the weapons work.
another thing i really loved about NC was the ability to be able to buy all the weapons for cheap amounts in shops then be able to have a constructor build the weapon after being researched. a very good system IMO.
the stats are also very unique with the 5 main skills, then all of their subskills.
leveling in NC wasnt even that bad... yeah ive spent countless hours in the caves at CRP and MC5 but it didnt feel half as bad as leveling in WOW. and the feeling you get when your finally able to use a new weapon that you modded out with all the leet stuff, awsome.
however i havent played more than 2-3 months since NC2 launched, and its even free now wtf?
IMO the biggest things that made me turn away from NC2 had to be the new models, and more importantly the animations for PSI.... i mean wtf were you thinking KK? no more elves anyone?
in NC1 when someone was casting a HL it actually looked like they were trying to attack you, not praise allah.
I and the 3 friends i played NC with all agree the new models and animations are what killed half the game.
btw the renaming of all implants and things completely confused the shit outta me. i also liked the stats of the NC1 chips :p
played NC for years, since before open beta and I really miss my neocron :angel:
First/Third person combat that requires aiming skill in combat. It has none of the press a key to select a target and press another key to launch an attack rubbush.
Stats and Skills system allows more freedom by giving allocatable points per level. Personally I've always preferred this approach to leveling.
Cyber-punk atmosphere is just mint, I can't describe why it just is.
The choice to avoid PvP without having to be on a separate server, once you are ready for it you just take out your LE cpu.
The characteristics of some of the weapons are mint - I just love the sound and of plasma weapons and they way they shoot the blobs of plasma. Fusion shots looks very cool. I also like the way runners bleed spouts of blood when hit from the likes of the assault rifles.
The player trade system is good also, relying on players to get the best item stats etc. The only thing I dislike is having to give someone your items to get repaired or modded.
Seeing as this thread has become more of a "why do I like NC" thread rather than talking about the real answer (which I think my first post, Icestorms and FN's covered pretty simply):
Going back to the thread about TR (and also to a lesser extent CoX) one thing I have always enjoyed is the reward for exploration in Neocron. I really like exploring. Like really like it. And while I think Neocron could be significantly better in that respect, there are dozens of things around both the wastes and the cities that you won't know about unless you go searching. Some is purley aesthetic, some are valuable levelling areas, some are quest starters and some are just plain confusing (steppe maze, mainsewers, I'm looking at you here)
Seeing as this thread has become more of a "why do I like NC" thread rather than talking about the real answer
You misunderstand. You make it sound like we'd still be here if we had no players at all but that's not the case. Why do you, as a player, still play Neocron after all this time?
You misunderstand. You make it sound like we'd still be here if we had no players at all but that's not the case. Why do you, as a player, still play Neocron after all this time?
Well, I don't really. I'm burned out and log in maybe a couple of times a month.
My inital point stands - as much of the question is "why is X thousand players not enough for TR, but a couple hundred enough for NC", seeing as the closure of TR apparently started this thread. One suspects there are few MMOs that couldn't have a few dedicated die-hards for a long time.
Beyond that, I've covered what makes the game interesting on both a general and a personal level.
You misunderstand. You make it sound like we'd still be here if we had no players at all but that's not the case. Why do you, as a player, still play Neocron after all this time?Because I can pick it up, play for a week or few, then put it down and come back to it a few months later. Little will have changed in the intervening months. I can also obtain about 90% of the items in the game solo or with two logins.
KK also appears to recognize the online population is tiny and leaves in certain features that make life easier for the rest.
I must use this opportunity again to say I much, much preferred NC1.
Even it's lack of balance, and shoddy graphics.
NC1 > NC2
- The immersive feeling of actually being your character (Due to the ability to customise looks, and LACK of PA)
- The feeling that you can play, and solo ANY class/build
- Options to use and gun vehicles with more than one class
- Pepper Park fights
- Cave runs at CRP
- Solo Firemobbing for rare parts
- Only tanks had PA (for the most part)
- Some Epic rewards were of value
- Fights could go either way
- Drugflash relog was possible (lol)
- The HUD was better
- The SL system was better
- Implants and armour was relatively straight forward to work out in your head, if you understood and tested it.
- No NSkill – Setups actually had to be thought about and often heavily tested
- No WoC
- Rare weapons were infact, rare – and were fun to build/have built
- APU’s weren’t pointless
- Hybrids existed
- Implants had sensible values (As opposed to now – where they seem more like Pi – 3.142)
NC2 > NC1
- Balanced?
- Textures
- A couple of nice new weapons – but still, I’d prefer it if they were not there…
So,
Neocron IS the best game I have ever played, and I'll never forget it. Neocron 2 was a let down for me - from day one. I still play now and again and it reminds me of what it once was.
I just hope a final 'fix-all and add fun' patch is released before the game dwindles into non-existence around the launch of BP.
Nymphette79
28-11-08, 23:03
I must use this opportunity again to say I much, much preferred NC1.
Even it's lack of balance, and shoddy graphics.
NC1 > NC2
- The immersive feeling of actually being your character (Due to the ability to customise looks, and LACK of PA)
- The feeling that you can play, and solo ANY class/build
- Options to use and gun vehicles with more than one class
- Pepper Park fights
- Cave runs at CRP
- Solo Firemobbing for rare parts
- Only tanks had PA (for the most part)
- Some Epic rewards were of value
- Fights could go either way
- Drugflash relog was possible (lol)
- The HUD was better
- The SL system was better
- Implants and armour was relatively straight forward to work out in your head, if you understood and tested it.
- No NSkill – Setups actually had to be thought about and often heavily tested
- No WoC
- Rare weapons were infact, rare – and were fun to build/have built
- APU’s weren’t pointless
- Hybrids existed
- Implants had sensible values (As opposed to now – where they seem more like Pi – 3.142)
NC2 > NC1
- Balanced?
- Textures
- A couple of nice new weapons – but still, I’d prefer it if they were not there…
So,
Neocron IS the best game I have ever played, and I'll never forget it. Neocron 2 was a let down for me - from day one. I still play now and again and it reminds me of what it once was.
I just hope a final 'fix-all and add fun' patch is released before the game dwindles into non-existence around the launch of BP.
Ditto babe, loved NC1, being able to go get ur backpack FTW!!
Liked the community alot more then too, that made the game for me - the people not so much the content. (Am getting all teary eyed & nostalgic now, may just have to snuggle up in my NC hoody)
Maybe I didn't play NC1 long enough to decide that I like it over NC2. But to be quite honest, both NC1 and NC2 hold a charm for me. And when I get my laptop fixed I will get back to playing on my rigger. Until then; meh >.<
Why do I like it? Well to begin with, I do love the whole idea of the fps MMO. Only a few of these exist. Planetside (sort of), NeoCron, Entropia Universe and well that's it! Fallen Earth is also there but that is not available to the public so meh...
NeoCron also has a world that you can feel is pretty large, in that you may spend half an hour driving around if you want. Or can just go into a city/dungeon/certain area and do your thing. This also is helped by the fact that again, you have original combat, the crafting is not bad, and the community is also nifty (though I wish it would be larger). You also have the one original class/playstyle which NO other mmo has even ever approached how you have. DRONES!!!!!!!!!! Sure many use it to lamely get capped and then lom into something else, but by themselves they have to be the single most fun and innovative idea in a game. And it also helps me keep coming back again and again :>
Please don't let NC dwindle and die :(
Ground_Round
29-11-08, 12:05
I posted this on the 18th of January of 2008, given the
question it's perfectly applicable here:
"NC is not a linear shooter piece of trash like Tabula Rasa
with poke-e-mon style collect em' all objectives, it is a
vibrant post apocalyptic world filled with adventure,
excitement, and exploration.
It's a game that offers playability for both sides of the coin,
low attention gank fest types can enjoy NC and as far as
science fiction roleplay NC offers an unparalleled
atmosphere that is only rivaled by Anarchy Online in it's
depth and storyline.
I love how the character models emote based on typed
dialog, the first time I saw it I thought that the player
must be really fast on the keyboard to type and do emotes
at the same time.
When/if a character decides to remove their LE chip then
an entirely new world of, often nerve wracking, excitement
opens up.
The first time I watched an OP war I really enjoyed the
intensity of the fight, defenders, attackers people
screaming about sploits and plenty of smacktalk.
And the OPs actually do something, they give bonuses and
they sell consumables at lower than city prices.
Add in the fact that NC has great vehicles, well they were
better in the past but are still fun, my friends and I
laughed our butts off riding around in a gang on the new
quads, blue bikes are hella fun too but I do get sick of
them getting blown up constantly. (KK, make something
besides the Quad indestructible so people can have more
vehicle fun)
Neocron is unique, it's potential is vast if one chooses to
look at NC as a world rather than a place to try and be the
uber awesome killer dude with the best of everything, but
in that same vein one can be that person and still enjoy the
game if someone takes the time to teach them the ropes."
I'll always love the game and wish I had some friends that
wanted to play it still... :(
ashley watts
30-11-08, 04:54
For me it's the Neocron team, How many games are there like Neocron ?, its pretty safe to say there isnt one, How many games are compared to being addictive as crack ? Never come across one. I think the team realises it and closing down Neocron isnt just the closing of a game, its the closing of a Genre.
I think the community plays a large part also, It's almost grown into a family, there are a lot of members on here that have been dedicated for years, I think it's these that keep the morale up for the team, giving them a kick up the bum every so often
:-)
Hell-demon
30-11-08, 08:21
Neocron is different from any other game and isn't trying to be another copy of a game. There are shit loads of space sims and fantasy worlds but very few (if any) cyberpunk FPS RPG.
It would suck if KK made like an EVE clone or something along those lines...oh wait.
Doc Holliday
01-12-08, 00:12
cant really explain what draws people back time after time other than the simplicity of the game in the one sense (point and shoot and you will gain xp. no point click wait for something to happen. get confused log off) and simple fluid control system which provides a good basis for skilled (not so much these days but there used to be :) ) fights.
the chance of creating something special in a character or clan and having a lot of fun at it.
a brilliant combat system. ie it takes skill :)
did i say that already.
the world was fun. the game was big enough to hold everyone while not too big as it took ages to get around.
Not having locked GR's was probably the greatest part of this game. some of the changes like that killed a big piece of it for me.
being able to gen rep through a gr and spawn in to the middle of a raging op fight was a lot more fun than gen repping through a gr to get camped by some asshole (ok MB back in the day someone always did it lol) because your stuck for choices to go to and vehicles generally dont work or arent worth it.
the PVE as was wasnt the grind it is lately but wasnt too easy that it didnt require some thought of what you were doing and it was quite easy to cap your dudes but it was a welcome distraction when you cant pvp anymore or you havent got enough people on for a full on fight or someone else doesnt have enough people to give you a decent fight.
im getting round to that time yet again where its winter, its cold, im bored and thinking of picking it up to play neocron and threads like this make me remember how good things used to be. i really did love the game once. nothing is quite like it. its so unique in a lot of ways (fatals anyone :D) :lol:
the flame fests on trade channel were as much fun some times as the actual fights and i think in a lot of reasons the community has always been relatively small. it gave a rise to alot of grudges and alot of hatred at times from various warring factions on all sides and it has always been funny to see how political allies changed within the game context.
i think the main point of it all though was because there werent 20 million people everyone kinda knew everyone else and LOTS of people wanted to be top dog. there was a pecking order for a long time on uranus back in nc1 and it was always interesting to see it when the "famous" players turned up in p1 or at an op fight etc how people reacted. it was a buzz knowing you were "somebody" even if its just in a computer game.
your not just a face like in a lot of other games. you had a rep and you lived and died by it. this was especially the case on pluto where it was a 1 man server.
im sure alot of people will chime in to this and go "YEAH PLUTO RULEZ!" etc. and get all nostalgic but it was during those times that for me it was the most fun. the assholes werent as prominent and there were way more cool people playing than i have found since then.
phew. enough from me. sorry for the big post. i think i got it down right.
Many of you will have heard that several MMORPGs have closed their doors in recent times. Just a few days ago another AAA title, Tabula Rasa, announced that it will be closing down soon.
However, Neocron is still alive and has outlived many other MMORPGs. There has to be a reason for this and we'd like to know your thoughts.
We would like to hear in your words why you think Neocron has withstood the test of time. What brings you back to play the game again and again after all these years? What is so special about Neocron compared to other MMORPGs?
It's because neocron has you Snow <3 :)
Crazypsifookar
01-12-08, 11:19
I agree with loki
Not having locked GR's was probably the greatest part of this game. some of the changes like that killed a big piece of it for me.
being able to gen rep through a gr and spawn in to the middle of a raging op fight was a lot more fun than gen repping through a gr to get camped by some asshole (ok MB back in the day someone always did it lol) because your stuck for choices to go to and vehicles generally dont work or arent worth it
And me. However, it's not something I've consciously thought about until you JUST mentioned it.
the PVE as was wasnt the grind it is lately but wasnt too easy that it didnt require some thought of what you were doing
Yeah, the grind is too much for me now. I simply don't have the time to level my melee tank to cap any more. I only took him to about 60 STR... it's just so bloody slow, and dull now.
im getting round to that time yet again where its winter, its cold, im bored and thinking of picking it up to play neocron and threads like this make me remember how good things used to be.
I will also be making a christmas comeback. So, I'll speak to you on vent soon :)
the flame fests on trade channel were as much fun some times as the actual fights and i think in a lot of reasons the community has always been relatively small. it gave a rise to alot of grudges and alot of hatred at times from various warring factions on all sides and it has always been funny to see how political allies changed within the game context.
Hivemind vs Ginger anyone? :lol:
i think the main point of it all though was because there werent 20 million people everyone kinda knew everyone else and LOTS of people wanted to be top dog. there was a pecking order for a long time on uranus back in nc1 and it was always interesting to see it when the "famous" players turned up in p1 or at an op fight etc how people reacted. it was a buzz knowing you were "somebody" even if its just in a computer game.
Excellent point. Again, not something I have consciously thought about, but looking back, I was definitely quite high on that pecking order for quite some time. There really were a famous few - couldn't go anywhere without people spamming me via direct and in local.
your not just a face like in a lot of other games. you had a rep and you lived and died by it. this was especially the case on pluto where it was a 1 man server.
I semi agree here, and semi-disagree. I had characters on Pluto, Venus and Uranus. I mainly played on Uranus, but some of us didn't have several alts. I only ever played as Rabbi Fang - so regardless of the server I played on, I lived and died by that one character's reputation.
Oh, and Doc - I'll have to give you a shout at some point. Is your brother back for Christmas?
Neocron has magically survived all this time and i wonder how.
It even survived the falling of twilight war, which got back funding and is in closed beta now.
I shall see how it is and compare it to neocron, i bet NC will still be top !
Nytewolf2k7
04-12-08, 09:03
I keep coming back because of the setting, I find interest in the things that might happen if modern civilization was near-wiped and had to start over.
Games like this, and Fallout appeal to me :)
Apocalypsox
05-12-08, 08:13
It would suck if KK made like an EVE clone or something along those lines...oh wait.
you need to think more capitalism, Hell.
Successful clone of anything = income = development for other games = Neocron brought back full force. And i mean the neocron we all loved, not NC1 or NC2.
Okay, seriously people; come on.
Just because it's a space mmo, that doesn't make it an EVE clone.
It's not even going to be the same style ffs!
Would you kindly, shut your shitspewhole? (directed at people who say BP is an EVE clone, not just Hell Demon)
Asurmen Spec Op
06-12-08, 03:31
Many of you will have heard that several MMORPGs have closed their doors in recent times. Just a few days ago another AAA title, Tabula Rasa, announced that it will be closing down soon.
However, Neocron is still alive and has outlived many other MMORPGs. There has to be a reason for this and we'd like to know your thoughts.
We would like to hear in your words why you think Neocron has withstood the test of time. What brings you back to play the game again and again after all these years? What is so special about Neocron compared to other MMORPGs?
The cyberpunkness, the people, you ;)
*points at sig*
The cyberpunkness, the people, you ;)
*points at sig*
Oo after reading this i'm quite worried aboutyou Asurmen! :p (just kidding)
Doc Holliday
06-12-08, 20:23
And me. However, it's not something I've consciously thought about until you JUST mentioned it.
Yeah, the grind is too much for me now. I simply don't have the time to level my melee tank to cap any more. I only took him to about 60 STR... it's just so bloody slow, and dull now.
I will also be making a christmas comeback. So, I'll speak to you on vent soon :)
Hivemind vs Ginger anyone? :lol:
Excellent point. Again, not something I have consciously thought about, but looking back, I was definitely quite high on that pecking order for quite some time. There really were a famous few - couldn't go anywhere without people spamming me via direct and in local.
I semi agree here, and semi-disagree. I had characters on Pluto, Venus and Uranus. I mainly played on Uranus, but some of us didn't have several alts. I only ever played as Rabbi Fang - so regardless of the server I played on, I lived and died by that one character's reputation.
Oh, and Doc - I'll have to give you a shout at some point. Is your brother back for Christmas?
yarrrr. think so anyways. im playing ut3 now. given up with bf2 at least short term. a little tired of it. plus i have new comp :) which has financially broken me.
like the loreale its worth it ;)
yeah. would fancy some nc again though. just a dip in maybe to have a shoot at some fools and see how it goes. the last couple times i kinda dropped in didnt really latch on and dropped out again fairly quick. most of my dudes are black dragon so i will see if anythings goin off and prob stay there and control pp or somthin.
i wish we could have gotten that off the ground.
i think i have your msn mate. not sure. if not pm me. will try and find a few hours one eve and have a butchers at it all again. is it still free?
im ok with paying of course but curious all the same.
Asurmen Spec Op
07-12-08, 00:43
Oo after reading this i'm quite worried aboutyou Asurmen! :p (just kidding)
There were some awesome quotes from that event, I posted them somewhere on the forum...
Wheee, christmas avvy's on mods and gms are back on :D
much happy to see them again :)
sorry Niddy. just didn't want to make an entirely new thread, just to say how happy i am to see the christmas avvys again :)
*notices a huge hammery-shaped shadow under his feet*
:eek:
*runs away*
pvp
atmosphere
no-LE (if you want to play that way - the choice is yours)
OPs
tunnels
people - all of them.
(I just wish that the Dome tunnels in the wastes would actually connect into a Waterprocessing unit or side street in the Dome. Along the route there would be a secret sneaky back passage with nasty mobs and with 2 penny whores whipping Droms with wee crabs and a bar run by the friendly mutants who used to be in pp3. I like waterprocessing)
Seraphin[69]
10-12-08, 23:57
The PVP system is awesome and the atmosphere is soooo great.
The only problem I see is the cheaters. They are always the reason I'm taking a break from the game !
']The PVP system is awesome and the atmosphere is soooo great.
The only problem I see is the cheaters. They are always the reason I'm taking a break from the game !
same here, as goes for 99% of my clanmates :(
Does anyone remember BETA 4? There was a purple Heavy Combat tank there I think called Napalm. He wielded a flamethrower and pwned anyone that entered Pepperpark 1. The whole damned floor was filled with backpacks :D
Also I've been in the early start of NC1 playing my PE Pistoleer, running around Pepperpark with some friends. We found this wall with a crack in it and we wanted to get through but we didn't fit. So we got our selfs a Gen Tank as a friend and bought some shabby grenades from the store.
He threw the grenades at the wall 1 by 1 but nothing happened! o_O :(
These are the things that do it for me!
Many of you will have heard that several MMORPGs have closed their doors in recent times. Just a few days ago another AAA title, Tabula Rasa, announced that it will be closing down soon.
However, Neocron is still alive and has outlived many other MMORPGs. There has to be a reason for this and we'd like to know your thoughts.
We would like to hear in your words why you think Neocron has withstood the test of time. What brings you back to play the game again and again after all these years? What is so special about Neocron compared to other MMORPGs?
Thing that hooked me to neocron was no existance of manual.
But first some history.
<HISTORY>
Im about 35 years old, im from Poland. When i got my first computer (Atari 800XL) i was 14 and it was 1988. It was still 1+ year before communist system breakdown. We didnt learn english in schools we learned russian. So i got computer and i bought first games (of coz on black market bcuz copyrights doesnt exeisted in communism). All that games were in english and were w/o manuals, simple some guys were copying tapes. Playing any game that times was like exploring new world, nights i spend with my computer and english dictionary are countless. I very liked it. Basicaly you launched a game and besides options like New Game etc you doesnt understand anything, it was up to you to explore it, gain knowledge, learn it, get fun of it.
</HISTORY>
Now back to neocron. I started it in Nc1 B4. There were no manuals , even ingame help (like ? buttons on skills screen) was wrong. I entered neocron world with zero knowledge of its mechanics and world itself. It was fascinating time travel in time 14 years back. it was all up to me to learn the game (yes there was some ppl called NCAT but they were few), i was really excited and happy when i discovered smt new about neocron world. Everyday i learned smt and everyday i was knowing its sooo much more to learn. If i recall good i was playing B4 and early NC1 every day like 12-16h per day (at home and at work - i was network admin those days). Purpose ... thats everything i need to keep playing and it never be more stats, more equipment or smt, its all about exploring and knowledge of game. When i gained enought knowledge of game, explored near all possible places, played all classes, were quite good in pvp, reason for playing everyday dies. Now i play like 1-2 months per year, but i visit forums like 1 time a week, thats i think my tribute to best MMORPG game i played ever period
Now some specific things:
- combat system: good. I played many fps games like (Q3, RtCW,ET,CSS) some of them on quite high competition level (ClanBase EuroCup or NationsCup). I like that NC involves real aim skill. Mayby only target tracking but you can do it better than your opponent or you die, its not real aim skill but it gives chance for player with high ping (in normal fps games you fire when you aim, there is of coz smt like spread with machineguns etc but not so riddiculus like in NC). Anyway combat is at certain level skill based not stat based
- tradeskill system: not so good. All the time i wondered why KK made skill based combat system and didnt make skill based tradeskill system (now its stats + lotto based). Its too simply. I imagine tradeskill system that involves player skills, experience (not ingame exp points) and wiisdom. System that make difference between output of 2 players with identical stats and not based on lotto. Something that promotes ppl devoted to tradeskill, not only ppl who put same amount of points in hacking for eg. I do not wish that KK implement Borland C 3.1 compiler into NC and demand from players who play hacker so hardcore knowledge, but smt that promote hours, days, months spend on doing smt to get knowledge and experience. Smt like cnster need to spend big amount of money and time to get perfect drug mixture, hacker need a time to get knowledge of hacking to make universal hackcubes for (why this wasnt implemented ? Hacker make hackcubes that open certain hck lvl switches? why hacker cant hack doors etc from apart ?) and sell them on market? There is so much possibilites to promote player wisdom & experience not only stats. Lets make it as it is so everyone and his dog.. sry drom can make pure cnster and make stuff like now, but put in cnsting process advanced tab for manipulating process for ppl who invested time to know what and how manipulate. Average Joe and his drom will not use it and it will give edge for real tradeskillers. Its not so hard.
- LE system: good but not soo good as it was. Now there is no penalty for using LE. I really liked NC1 B4 penalty (higher requiments on items) for LE users. If you want be a LED, ok but you will not advance as fast as w/o LE. I will dont forget plaza sewers filled with smt like 20-30 ppl doing same bees/rats/plants missions and fighting for it, stilleto fights, unlabeled grenade fights, unlabeled shotgun fights, so much fun in really low lvl PVP
- world: cool, big but too empty and too expectable, not too much mini quests not worth doing anyway, no mobs migrations (you know what sectors are safe and what not)
- outposts: useless now, only two reasons to fight for them is ego or block GR to good lvling grounds, so ego anyway
- KK events (not player made events) : bad, too much mob assault events, not too much events like Laurent Hooversmt triangulation event (unfinished afaik)
- patches: funny :D, after every patch i test if KK didnt changed CS into AoE weapon lol :D
Conclusion: NC is not so far from universal game for thinking and skilled ppl but KK need to make a move. You let it be, we will play time to time, you make it better for us we will play more, you did this pool to know what implement in BP ? Screw You :D
And yes my english skill is still far from cap lolz
by far the best mmo to ever exist, and even today's standards dont come close. Neocron is the only game where i felt my chars had a role and could twist the universe/storyline.
It's also the most immersive game, best original soundtrack to be ever created for any game period. It has the best graphical style and it was the place to be between 2001 and the advent of nc2.
yeah Tabula Rasa died cause it has no soul, no depth, it's just a casual arcade shooter for dummys. It proves that a big name, 200 million dollars and a huge dev team dont mean good game, it's one of the worst game i have ever played.
Why Do I come back in neocron...
...Feeding my ego?
It's hungry, the more the days go on, the more hungry it is... :p
Tho I'd like to say Neocron lost a lot of fun, not totally related to the topic. PvE really needs changes big time. We can't call this a MMORPG if everyone is soloing caves with their LE droners. PvP has to be adjusted (i'm sure It wouldn't
take more than a day to adjust that). Factionboard evoluting and sometimes, changing, wouldn't be bad (RP!). And of course, the last but not least, Reakktor finally realizes Neocron is unique, and deserve work, even as a new game (engine?), if you got players who keep coming back saying "Neocron is the best MORPG I have ever played", it's not for nothing, I guess.
Ive been around since 2002, and ive been constantly flaming on this game and telling me just to stop. But for some reason i just constantly play it, I enjoy the PVP I enjoy the leveling. The population was what killed it, but there is so much to do to be honest. Even though the aim is hit boxes it slows free movement and its not one of those games where you click a quickbar and skill spam or 1 button instant heal potions. Thats is the greatest thing about this game.
its just utterly unforgettable..
ever since i first heard about it in 98 or so (like alpha i believe) i have kept track of it until i decided to play in 03... left a few times but every time i would play another mmo, i would think "gee NC did this so much better" or "man i wish they would do something like this in NC".
in short NC has become my subconcious barometer of an MMO's pro's and con's.
The pvp, the character development, the open-ended ness, and for me the most important: the lack of emphasis of "uber epixz". Hell if you have skill, you can make up for hte lack of gear (in most cases anyway ^_^) - that is what makes NC so much better than any other MMO.
long live NC. May it go on til the day I die and then some! (and since im only in my 20s i hope NC lives a good long while)
way too old & dusty.
Geez, do something with it or let it die and hand out "Private Server Files".
Was a good time but theres no way i would pay another Cent for
the "Game" that is running on the retail servers right now.
QuantumDelta
26-12-08, 14:51
Why is 'cron great?
Why does it persist?
Cron is one of those games, that's gone through a lot of phases, there was a time when it was even, perhaps a little like a community project.
It had a ropey and uncertain history, but the community has always been so strong that they don't want to let it go.
The community speaks for itself, so many individuals, each unique, and memorable, sure that doesn't always mean it's roses but that is part of the attraction.
Neocron had a gritty, really grungey feel to it, combined with adrenaline pumping pvp - even though the PvP was fairly simple, and a learning curve that keeps it engaging, even for the elite.
Might sound simple, but it's a niche game.
There's very little else like it - at the moment, nothing infact.
TR tried a similar vein, but completely lost it, so what's different in Neocron other than the PvP/PvE?
The Devs here aren't just some guy parading his face around making bold statements that no one really gives a crap about.
The Devs pay attention, the GMs and Mods are all attentive and very much involved, again, community.
But it's a community KK helped cultivate, whether they knew it and had the aim to or not.
I think I still have a PM in my inbox from MJS telling me how much he loves this game and the people who play it.
It's bonds like those that helped form this community, and the continued effort of those who carried on.
....I'm obviously, far less involved than I once was, but this place, still owns my favourite MMO.
My favourite game-wide community too.
'Cron is unique, in a lot of ways. I'll forever be fond of this place.
specranator
27-12-08, 23:58
now theres a name i havent seen in years :lol:
We're lurking in the shadows :)
In any case... What QD said is spot on. I have tried a lot of MMOs, trying to fill the void that Neocron left when I stopped playing it.
There is no other game like it and I basically get all teared up just by thinking about about the great times I had in Neocron.
I guess the dream scenario would be if someone could see the potential and continue the game on perhaps a licensing basis. I'm not talking about a big game studio here, Neocron will and should never have a very large player base in my opinion.
Dreaming is free and real world costs however :(
But who knows what will happen, dreams can come true right? ;)
If I weren't tied up myself at the moment I would probably be spam... I mean making inquiries to SnowCrash about different plans :p
I hope you are all well, in case anyone remembers me and The Green Machine (Saturn before Pluto opened -> Pluto -> Terra) :p
God speed in 2009.
EDIT (after some loud noises): Praetorian is in my closet he says hi as well. Not easy with a Swedish/Danish same-sex relationship these days... "I want sausage!" "No I want meatballs!" etc etc...
Although I must admit, taking it literally, it does come quite natural to fulfill both requests o_O
community stuff
While this game is certainly unique and deserved more attention than it got - lets not put on those rose tinted glasses just yet. Sure, now there's a fair amount of communication. Why? Because most of the people here now know everyone else on a personal level.
Lets not pretend that communication was a KK strong point seeing as its' apathy in regards to it helped dwindle the playerbase significantly.
Mistakes were made, don't gloss over them or they'll be made again.
I'm not trying to stir shit up, but damn - I couldn't read that without letting loose a 'are you serious' type of giggle.
While this game is certainly unique and deserved more attention than it got - lets not put on those rose tinted glasses just yet. Sure, now there's a fair amount of communication. Why? Because most of the people here now know everyone else on a personal level.
Lets not pretend that communication was a KK strong point seeing as its' apathy in regards to it helped dwindle the playerbase significantly.
Mistakes were made, don't gloss over them or they'll be made again.
I'm not trying to stir shit up, but damn - I couldn't read that without letting loose a 'are you serious' type of giggle.
I have to completely agree with every word.
Clearly I had an other mindset going when reading QD's post :p
Not by ANY way marginalising any problems we had...
He's saying there is communication between devs and community... i mean, I've only been around for a year or so but I've never ever seen anything like 2 sided communication
The only contact I've seen in over a year is the occasional post from Snowcrash, and the unquestionable omni-presence of Nidhogg, whom, sadly; isn't a dev.
There was communication years ago, when QD actually played the game. It's unfair to say that KK built the community though. We built the community ourselves (With the assistance of Nidhogg's ban-hammer, which kept the 'crap' out).
I co-run a two man company, and if we communicate with our forum only weekly, we feel guilty.
I have always just found it so, so hard to understand how their minds must work. I'm almost certain that Neocron has completely been given up on now.
It's a shame, but what an amazing game it was and to some degree, still is.
QuantumDelta
09-01-09, 20:07
Well, I didn't quite mean to make it sound single handedly their master-stroke if that's how it did sound, but I meant that, unlike most MMOs, they gave the community a sense of worth.
If not now, then back then, the QA worked with community members, and community members banded around the idea that they could help KK implement features which would improve the game.
I can imagine things have changed at KK to a degree where it makes that extremely hard now, but in terms of developers - there aren't many that would have ever tried that.
What was the AO Dev quote? "Put as little responcibility into the client as possible"? :P
He was talking about things for the sake of security for the most part of course but it's been applied to pretty much every aspect of MMOs since.
I digress anyway.
Interaction and the attentiveness of the staff(and volunteer staff) back then, helped the worst parts of what would have been the community to be annexed, whilst the good stuff went on.
Sure, it wasn't all roses, but online it rarely ever is. - Whilst the community that remains has a strong bond with eachother this was originally because of the way that KK went about doing business.
Mob mentality doesn't change much from place to place, the only thing that considerably effects it is authority, so yes, although the community at large has itself to thank, there is an initial impetus which came from the staff;P
I have always just found it so, so hard to understand how their minds must work. I'm almost certain that Neocron has completely been given up on now.
This is the main reason I never really stayed when I came back once or twice, I took a look around saw what was new evaluated whether it'd be worth playing or not.
Honestly? It isn't for me anymore - other games have stolen my free time.
But that would be different if things were the way they were, the community is still amazingly strong here and props to it for not falling into decadence.
'Cron however doesn't feel continually refreshed(ing) like it used to it feels a little like it's lost it's way to me, sure I saw an attempt to return to the old ways but that just leaves a sore, broken area on the map that should really have been put to good use.
Hense why from my perspective, it can only really be the community that's keeping everyone here.
The game's uniqueness can only go so far.
Praetorian
11-01-09, 05:19
Its abit scary to see that phunqe and i frequent this forum around the same time without actually having told eachother about it O_o
I enjoy PvP'ing alot, and there is no game out there that gives the same kind of pleasure that Neocron did. Having a good evenly matched OP fight and then winning after hours of fighting, sometimes even changing zones... Well, nothing beats that... NOTHING!
Or annoying FF enough around CRP with an APU/PPU combo that they finally bring 6-7 guys, manage to kill me (being the apu) and then park that faction reward vehicle (reveller?) on top of me so i cant be targetted for a rez... It cant be destroyed either so yeah... Time to get pokes... :D
Or having a drunk cyl0n PPU me fighting around 7-8 mirror shades at tyron factory for what seemed an eternity... :p
Good times... No wait, the best times... :(
Neocron was (is) unique, no other MMO even comes close to it. I wish they made a NC3 without the bugs, zoning, synchronizAAAARGHing etc... I'd definatly be back.
Oh and Pluto > *.*
EDIT: Whenever i get really emo and miss neocron, i play some of the background music (Like Fall of the Moai, damn man). Then im instantly reminded of so many things i did or experienced in Neocron that has somehow been memorized and now triggered by the music i heard back then and now hear again... Man, neocron had so much potential, it was such a great game. Makes me sad... :(
EDIT 2: Another thing i loved about neocron was the fact you could explore stuff like tha Gaia mines, that weird ball thingy in MB or Outzone Sector 7 (and get killed by a GM as punishment lol)... Loved that...
I agree with so much said above!
INDEPENDENCE, I love the independence this game offers. You never have to join a clan if you do not want to but, you can still hammer the enemy with your pal’s when they need you. Then go off on some quest to see how tough you are all by yourself and beg a friend online to come out into the middle of no-where to rez you…lol
INTELLIGENCE, you must be willing to learn. I love this stuff you have developed to allow a player to micromanage themselves and then take the same character, re-shape them by redistributing their skill points and become someone new. I still do not know all I want to know. Then there are sites like the old and missed synergy and Techhaven.org that just go to prove how the love of this game can produce some of the best resources to learn from. When synergy left Techhaven got allot of that data and reworked it into the now fantastic site it is today. While I am at it, THANKS ALLOT TECHHAVEN.org and my thanks to the work that webmaster put into Synergy, you taught me many things.
INTERACTION, I have met allot of the coolest people from all parts of the world. Mybest friends were German when I was a noob and they leveled my tank in two days. Minus my personal ongoing “Loozer List” :) ,the bulk of my acquaintances are people I hope to have a beer with some day when and if ever there is a convention but, until then I will assist them all the best I can StoneCold, BunneyBear, Dio Kahn, Yahoo and many more…
INTERVENTION, we are not micromanaged like other games do to their players. The enforcement of discrimination, racist comments and actions are quick and effective most of the time to allow us to play with people that have some respect for others.
INVOLVEMENT, adds fun to the game; assisting noobs get through what in many cases some of us older player had to do ourselves learning how to configure our characters in order to complete tasks that are meant for multi-player teamwork.
INNOVATION, look at all the stuff you give us to play with, apatrments, vehicles, flying aircraft, the weapon assortment, trophy’s, caves, dungeons, poison, fire monsters, radiation, wimpy swamp creatures (lol) and more!
Lastly (are you thinking I have another “I” word? :)
EVENTS and AUCTIONS, I love this stuff. My favorite was when we had those colossal Warbots attack at the CityMerks Outpost. There were so many players there hammering them. Boy I wish I could have hacked some.
I always thought that his game would be great if reworked into the future and used as a starting point to enter the “Black Prophecy” world all leveled up and ready for other big weapons and adventures.
I have been an ongoing member since just after the beta of NC1 (except for 9 months in 05) and I will continue to support this world as well as Black Prophecy when you release that.
Life is Good, Love the Game!
Respectfully,
JG
A.K.A. Marine
While this game is certainly unique and deserved more attention than it got - lets not put on those rose tinted glasses just yet. Sure, now there's a fair amount of communication. Why? Because most of the people here now know everyone else on a personal level.
Lets not pretend that communication was a KK strong point seeing as its' apathy in regards to it helped dwindle the playerbase significantly.
Mistakes were made, don't gloss over them or they'll be made again.
I'm not trying to stir shit up, but damn - I couldn't read that without letting loose a 'are you serious' type of giggle.
Even though I still stand strongly by my feelings mentioned above; I would be a fool not to agree to this comment.
Hopefully what we know and do not know about the drama going on over at NC Game HQ will some day straighten itself out so those earlier mistakes and some going on now can be reworked providing a positive outcome for all.
Then again, with all this effort being put into the release of BP and the release looking like it will happen before I retire; it may be smart to reflect on the past and keep it from nailing us as we approach the future. :rolleyes:
what kept me here the most was the thought/hope of the game one day returning to the way it used to be in NC1. The people i played with and helping to found one of the most dominant clans (The Black Cartel) if not the most dominant, all kept me excited. I thought maybe everyone would come back and play after half of my boys got banned for some insignificant shit. The only reason I dont really enjoy playing anymore is because I dont know half the people that are on in a given time. I really only played this game because I thought the PvP/OP fights were cool and the people I played with. but now that they're all gone, i guess its time for me to move on too. Neocron 1 will forever and always be my favorite mmorpg.
It's mostly the atmosphere for me. Nothing has compared to it yet. I have been following the game since beta.
I haven't played in ages but what makes me come back to check the board?
Well NC>SW:G and my girlfriend has the thong to prove it ;)
*waves to anyone who remembers NCPD Precinct One*
The depth of content, and nostalgia.
We all miss those NC1 days. It's funny really, we spent so much time begging for NC2, and when it finally arrived, all we wanted was to go back to the old days.
+ great atmosphere
+ core of PvP system is best till today
+ awesome players since day 1
We all loved and hated the game at the same time. Player's made lots of suggestions during the winter of 2003, but KK didn't come up with a satisfying solution, so players left.
Many came back because "YOU JUST CAN'T RESIST THE CRAKKKKK", but after a short period you realise the same annoyances are still around, after months, years....
But no matter how much I hate(d) so many thing in the game, it's still the best ;)
I can't leave. Yes, others are gone but, as we digress our thoughts we see that there are many who have been around a long time (hmmmmm).
Sure some are/were bastards in the old days and may be now. Others are cool and have a concept of ethical behavior and want to have a few trusted people to know.
Maby what we need is to look around for some old friends we never made friends with. There seems to be allot of long-timers around.
Maby They will deliver with BP.
Maby I will need help to break this addiction to keep being a subscriber no-matter if I play for months on end or take a break cuz I am working my ass off for months.
I just cannot let NC go, I love it more than I hate any one/whole part of it.
I do have a life by the way :lol: but, have not found the women who plays NC yet...
ashley watts
06-04-09, 12:00
Best PvP system evarrrrr
Im yet to find a decent game with the same PvP aiming and system :)
Neocron is the Community... If the Community is gone. There is no Neocron.
+ Neocron isnt Patched since Ages + Left alone by the Devs ^^
- We don't care about black prophecy^^
*Neill*
Hell-demon
08-04-09, 16:06
Neocron is like an ex-girlfriend you keep in contact with in the off chance she might put out. You sleep with her and you feel ashamed because it's not like how you remembered it.
Neocron is like an ex-girlfriend you keep in contact with in the off chance she might put out. You sleep with her and you feel ashamed because it's not like how you remembered it.
exactly lol...
and it's not like how you remembered it because when you went back to sleep with her, you realised she let herself go abit and got lazy in keeping her appearances up.
Hell-demon
08-04-09, 20:19
And she gives you empty promises and she falls over a lot because of balance issues.
And she smells.
And she gives you empty promises and she falls over a lot because of balance issues.
And she smells.
She also griefs you a lot.
Hell-demon
08-04-09, 20:28
And she's full of shit talking 13-year old boys...
And she's full of shit talking 13-year old boys...
Neocron is such a pedo-whore.
Guys, Topic. Stick to it.
Hell-demon
08-04-09, 20:50
I thought this topic is about analogies for neocron?
Doc Holliday
15-04-09, 18:50
Neocron is like an ex-girlfriend you keep in contact with in the off chance she might put out. You sleep with her and you feel ashamed because it's not like how you remembered it.
i wrote something similar a while ago (4 years ish) and got laughed at for it. how times change ;)
Hell-demon
15-04-09, 19:08
Or maybe we both suffer terrible relationships and relate games to them to help us deal with our emotional train wreck of a life.
No?
Or maybe we both suffer terrible relationships and relate games to them to help us deal with our emotional train wreck of a life.
No?
Works for me.
Chosen One
15-04-09, 20:26
Works for me.
you work for me :angel:
i wrote something similar a while ago (4 years ish) and got laughed at for it. how times change ;)
Don't worry. I still laughed.
We've always said that if you start getting tired of things, take a break. You can't expect to play the same game for 7 years and not want a rest every now and then. We'll still be here. ;)
N
Thank goodness for that, as far as being here is concerned. Because to be honest, I still find Neocron still one of the most fun, and unique MMOs that I've played, and even if I go off on a tangent and play whatever else is out there. I always find myself coming back xD
My only grievance is that there are not more people playing, but oh well maybe more people might discover NC when BP gets even more coverage. Probably not, but can't one dream?
Doc Holliday
17-04-09, 18:39
Or maybe we both suffer terrible relationships and relate games to them to help us deal with our emotional train wreck of a life.
No?
lol. thats deep hell demon. i feel like im sitting on a leather couch reading that with a guy in a tweed jacket with elbow patches looking over some horn rimmed spectacles at me with a rather serious look on his face :)
jokin aside its interesting to see how the community has changed. the people who are here now and actively part of the forum compared to say 2003-5. different topics of discussion. definitely a lot less flame wars. i havent seen many threads that get canned for that in a while. also a lot less stuff spilling out from the game in to the forums too be it server politics discussions etc.
one could argue the moderating is better now :) but i think its a case of a lot less idiots seem to come to the forum to sound off these days than days past. this is definitely a good thing.
reading the nerd stories however was cool. its a shame laemin isnt around anymore. im sure there would be some fun to be had in todays neocron ;)
THE_TICK!!!!
02-08-09, 20:58
Well niddy as you know ive been around for a wee bit, I think the thing that always bring's people back to NC, and lurking in the wings for something to happen is KK's game brings real true raw emotion to the player. I mean you feel as if your not playing a GAME so to speak, but you are IN the game, ive played quite a few MMO'S over the years and ive found NONE that gave me the heart pounding palm sweating shakes as this game, Ive made friends battled enemy's, flown, drove a scooter with MISSLE'S no less ..( i mean how cool is that) i think reactor has hit on a almost perfect balance between GAME and REALITY.
This game has something that no other game ive played has..It has character, And personally i think its because there IS danger behind every corner, there is no restrictions on the players creativity, Your not locked down by some ************ gm with what you can say or do, you can make your little d00d be who YOU want him to be.. The game is topnotch, just needs a lil tlc, i think with the right tweaks and some serious attention to the smarter players in our player base this game will not only never die, it will become something that most gamers dream about having...a game that last's forever.
well thats my lil speech, im back in afghanistan again lol, so let me go back outside to the dust and heat, someone drink a beer for me !!
Oh one more thing, ive noticed a couple things that could be improved upon, nothing big..but just things that i thought where left half finished..does anyone else feel that things where started and not finished ?
i was thinkin bout this and had to add this...when we had a decent playerbase..i cant ever remember a time when there wasn't someone to kill or something to do..there was never a time i had to WAIT around for a raid or something of that nature.
you work for me :angel:
Your mom works for me.
Marmite.Lover
25-08-09, 16:41
It is just a great game thats the things about it and people play so much because of that i used to play for atleast 8 hours a day to 2 days straight and i loved it and still do so hopefully i will get some cash and buy a new pc and come back to the game. It is like heroin... highly addicitive.
Sorry for causing any offence if you find the quote about heroin offensive.
get some punctuation please techno
get some punctuation please techno
now thats not nice :lol:
Well I for one have flamed this game non-stop since the start of NC2 and late NC1, hated KK, hated GMs, and hate dying. But I seem to constantly come back to check the forums once out of a few months and hope to see somethings changed. Why? Its totally different.
For one it lives up to the whole MMOFPS, team support, diverse gameplay, & strategic battles. Also the skill system is a major++, I think what hurts it for me is that most battles happen in the mornings for me (GMT -8) and later in the evening when I can play no ones really on and out of whack synchs that make you alt+f4.
Long story short, awesome gameplay & great team battles. No more lock and button tapping.
It is a unique game. I personally like the cyberpunk style it has. Its the closest thing I have found to the roleplaying genre, nothing I have seen even comes close in my opinion. I love the atmosphere. The combat system is good, as it is not a point and click system, which gets boring quick! Its an overall awesome game, it just needs an update and some fixes! I will keep playing this game as long as its around!
Hopefully the N3 rumors are true, that would be sweeeet! The fact that N2 is still up and running with any population at all says it all! You guys have a winning idea here! It just needs some fixes or the next version like N3!
I am glad that the problems you guys have been having are over now and you can look at N2 again. I hope all the best for your new game.
Atmosphere, which is created/enhanced by many things.
Story: Good.
First person view: You feel more immersed in the world when you are looking through your character's eyes, as opposed to third person view games.
Architecture: The use of available space (cities etc) is just right. In a newer engine, you would be able to fill in more building interiors, but can have an adverse effect on the mood (could be too busy, too much play space, or overwhelming, etc). Your mappers knew what they were doing. Favorites are the outzone zones and the mainsewer/citysewer (can never remember the name? the one that people rarely go to. i love that sewer, lol.)
Lighting: Doesn't have raytraced shadows or specular surfaces, BUT the important part is the use of neat hues without overdoing it, which is perfect in Neocron. The faint green lighting of the signs is great. Really helps you feel like you're inside that city.
Sounds: Oh my God the sounds. The announcements echoing throughout the city has to be one of the best things ever. The varying levels of distance/volume in them is also great. One thing I wish for the announcements though is that all players hear the same sounds as they play, but also add a check so the same sound can't play twice in a row or two announcements can't overlap. The wind sound effect in the wasteland is just bone-chilling.
Skybox: Great sky textures, even if dated. Earth's atmosphere is really messed up.
etc etc. Atmosphere.
The fact that Neocron is a game that stands alone in its chosen field. Since World of Warcraft came out, all other companies are following behind that niche because that's what gets the most subscribers... sadly. Although given, that design has been around a lot longer than that game, but you gotta admit WoW is what really launched it into the stratosphere, threatening millions! I've yet to see an MMO quite like Neocron that allows first person style combat in an open world. I've seen a few where you are actually required to interact with your character during combat... but not quite like Neocron's traditional FPS style, and especially not in a large environment that an MMO should have. For instance, the Dungeons and Dragons MMO... you have to click your mouse to swing your weapons and such just like you would expect but there is still that horrible "you missed!" thing despite your sword clearly striking an enemy's model. Also, everything is instanced. I *hate* that.
The design of all the cities is so appealing to me, it reminds me of days of yore such as Unreal, Deus Ex, also a liiiittle bit of Quake II... which are my all time favorite FPS games.
This game is just bursting at the seams with a lot of great visual atmosphere, topped with the then ground breaking (and still... considering what else is in the market) play style... it really does bother me that not a lot of people enjoy this gem. I see no enjoyment in watching my characters back as it swings an axe at a boar or something. Well, I guess I'm part of the few that see the flaw in this concept. Keep it up gentlemen... this game rocks.
I've just come back to NC these are the reason's I like it/came back.
It's a cyberpunk Sci-Fi MMO
It's not a "quest-o-thon"
Gear doesn't take you 21 days worth of game play to get, only to be replaced quarterly.
A nice quote from a WoW fan song that applies. "I feel kinda depressed trying in my epic gear for 'greens' I guess I might as well not go on raiding."
Don't get me wrong though NC is tiny in size, number of players, content etc. I could think of a bazillion things that may improve or ruin it.
However truth be told, the reason I still play/came back is because there is nothing like NC out there. Sure there are apocalyptic mmo's and such but nothing "feels" like NC.
.....Neocron is still alive and has outlived many other MMORPGs. There has to be a reason for this and we'd like to know your thoughts.
We would like to hear in your words why you think Neocron has withstood the test of time. What brings you back to play the game again and again after all these years? What is so special about Neocron compared to other MMORPGs?
Yes, there are great reasons in the posts before mine, but what really stands out for me is a single one.
The people who play.
They didnt come to NC for the polish, the press or the item mall.
They came to play, to make a difference in the quality of game we share.
And you listened to them.
Well for me Neocron has so many elements in it that I have not ever found in any other MMO. The great OP fights, PvP, crafting system, the community, and a dark nice world to explore. A really nice faction system and game story.
All I can say is that I am going to come back as soon as possible. So see you in a few weeks from now. Need to pay a few heavy bills before I can re activate again :wtf:
dodgefahrer
23-03-10, 09:40
At the moment u can still play for free.
So no need to wait to get ingame =)
At the moment u can still play for free.
So no need to wait to get ingame =)
Yeah the game has been free for well over a year now mate, you're missing out on the fun! Just install it and log into your account(s).
Promethius
18-06-10, 01:50
I've played NC since beta and have been enthralled in it ever since. The PvP style is very unique and unrivaled. You can really get into the world. Whether its traveling the outskirts of cities hunting various creatures/monsters. Or running through peppar park avoiding the PKers (i hear PP is no longer a good PK zone =/) The versatility of stats and weapon choices always leaves you guessing and attempting the 'Best' setups. Neocron is visually mesmerizing. I still remember the first time I gazed my eyes upon a cursed soul, staring at the green swirly in awe.
Still think the game should have had some in-game voice capabilities, but teamspeak/ ventrillo worked well.
Neocron is still my favorite game of all time. I always tell people about neocron but to my disappointment 'they never heard of it'.
Hell-demon
18-06-10, 22:14
on life support :(
daughterolilith
21-06-10, 03:02
I had a look at your new game site and it doesn't really interest me since it's just about spaceships no people, I really liked how you could explore Neocron how big it was and see giant monsters and things it was kind of like a multiplayer version of Fallout 3 but with much more badass mutant things (though the special effects not as good :p ) without the crappy american setting ... though that's just the very short version of why Neocron was nice
People I remember:
Hoder
Nidhogg
Snowcrash
Chenoa
Blood Queen
Verbatim
Ancient
Kabigami
Zebel
Feldan
Raiz
Dribble Joy
I am redownloading the game (from filefront to save Reakktor bandwidth monies) now, I remembered it after finding out how disappointing star trek online and APB are and thought I would check back it's cool that it's still going :) I remember I quit because I disliked the setup someone had recommended me (as a not very pvp person I followed advice) I respent all my skillpoints for to find you basically had to be on drugs constantly to be able to compete and that people were cheating it with macros and stuff, and the only way I could change back to playing the game normally was by losing loads of stuff, that wasn't very good game design really but I guess "respecs" were not a common thing when neocron was made so good practice for not putting players off wasn't as established.... I'm going to go hunting giant monster things in the desert and mutated zombies and stuff like that again, maybe put LE back in if I can I can't remember, maybe make a new character if need be since the player versus player part of the game is so horribly imbalanced
Promethius
03-10-10, 03:23
Many of you will have heard that several MMORPGs have closed their doors in recent times. Just a few days ago another AAA title, Tabula Rasa, announced that it will be closing down soon.
However, Neocron is still alive and has outlived many other MMORPGs. There has to be a reason for this and we'd like to know your thoughts.
We would like to hear in your words why you think Neocron has withstood the test of time. What brings you back to play the game again and again after all these years? What is so special about Neocron compared to other MMORPGs?
I have played Neocron since beta and I have yet to come across ANY game that has rivaled it. It has a very unique real time PVP combine with a combination or weaponry and skill points that Im constantly reorganizing to find 'the ultimate' setup.
Unlike many other games, you come across not only the same friends but also the same enemies through out your travels. OP waring is also unique to Neocron and has been one of my favorite things to do, besides the casual PKing. Neocron gives you the ability to be anyone you want to be. You can be a kind soul and help out newbies and lead a generalized 'hero' lifestyle or (my personal favorite) you can ravage through the world of neocron with a blood thirst for any faction. Befriended only those like yourself hell bent on destruction.
On the other end of the spectrum it is fun collecting tech parts and trading/constructing new weapons. I remember spending hours collecting MC5 tech parts and was extremely satisfied when i collected them all.
Only thing Neocron is lacking these days is a solid player count. One reason for this may be due to the difficult of getting the game to even work after install and patching. After quite the many years of being around when i just reinstalled i still had patching 'issues'. The same goes for my partner in crime. Also I have never met anyone in the real world who has ever heard of Neocron, but i still hang on to hope.
Neocron is an amazing game and it would be a shame for it to go away.
You guys are dicks, now you make me want to play again.
WuT?
:)
hi all.
edit: damn was it that long ago??
daughterolilith
12-04-11, 10:54
I am redownloading the game (from filefront to save Reakktor bandwidth monies) now, I remembered it after finding out how disappointing star trek online and APB are and thought I would check back it's cool that it's still going :) I remember I quit because I disliked the setup someone had recommended me (as a not very pvp person I followed advice) I respent all my skillpoints for to find you basically had to be on drugs constantly to be able to compete and that people were cheating it with macros and stuff, and the only way I could change back to playing the game normally was by losing loads of stuff, that wasn't very good game design really but I guess "respecs" were not a common thing when neocron was made so good practice for not putting players off wasn't as established.... I'm going to go hunting giant monster things in the desert and mutated zombies and stuff like that again, maybe put LE back in if I can I can't remember, maybe make a new character if need be since the player versus player part of the game is so horribly imbalanced
I had a look at your new game site and it doesn't really interest me since it's just about spaceships no people, I really liked how you could explore Neocron how big it was and see giant monsters and things it was kind of like a multiplayer version of Fallout 3 but with much more badass mutant things (though the special effects not as good :p ) without the crappy american setting ... though that's just the very short version of why Neocron was nice
People I remember:
Hoder
Nidhogg
Snowcrash
Chenoa
Blood Queen
Verbatim
Ancient
Kabigami
Zebel
Feldan
Raiz
Dribble Joy
Just to add to this, since Snowcrash mentioned Tabula Rasa by name, some stuff I found recently:
www.tabularasamemorial.org
www.tabularasamemorial.org/apb
www.tabularasamemorial.org/apb/feedback
My thoughts on the reason has to do with you...
By "You" I mean the NC team, Developers, KK, or Kirk Lenke.
The real reason NC is still here is because of one or all of those people and I thank you. Some of you on your side have popped in from time to time, shown some effort to keep things afloat, been friendly. It is nice to catch you around on the odd days.
The second reason NC still lives is because the work you all did is and was intellectual. You delivered thought into configurations, created a world that many types of people could di their own thing and it was not a pathetic Sims world.
You provoke thought with the tasks to be done, configuration of a runner to PvP, had cool auctions, there is more to build on it is just that time drove you to develop Black Prophecy and the famous "solvency" issues (that are now hopefully over and done with as written about some time ago.
Now is where we stand...
BP is released and I personally am happy for you all. I have played and do enjoy the game but, It still is not NC. I have seen recently that the prices have dropped in the Premium Store. I was budget tight so i had to stop playing for a bit. Still well done work I say, you have gotten to show you competitiveness again to be in this business.
New game engines and technology could allow NC to live again and finally make you all the money you had earned the first time that "solvency issues" interrupted.
I do not know what percentage Gamigo had to obtain to see that BP investment was worth it but, If you still want a private crown jewel NC can succeed. The question is how will it happen right, who gonna fork over the mooola?
NC could (as I have commented before) become a major add on for BP solving the cry's for a walk-around world. you have the mechanics already built and some artistic work could work the theme. The storyline of NC did have space exploration if I am not mistaken.
You could shape many NC's as home planets and rework the resources in the Premium store for the worlds. introduce the mining requests configuring off-planet ship mining of asteroids and ground level mining where thousands of moons and planets could use an NC based world for searching for elements etc,etc...
PvP and Space all in one package, mix the real world science with NC and BP and it would be something.
I started out telling you why NC still is hear, the reality of why and then some of my other thoughts (and I do think to much). No matter the outcome you all have done well and I am pleased to have been a player.
As always, I hope for all your successes to deliver all methods of the rewards you deserve with a potential NC3 and in reality, Black prophecy.
I will leave the Plaza Gr's on so you can stop buy and beat up on the loud mouth's and say hello to the rest of us. Honestly, Stop in some time; tell Mr. Lenke to look around. Imagine what you can do now with technology...
Take care and I hope you and your families are well and the "...Wind is at you back..."
Respectfully,
JohnGalt
'
I'd like to respectfully disagree with the above post, please please please please don't make neocron an extension of Black prophecy. Instanced neocron, the horror! it would undo everything that makes neocron special.
dodgefahrer
15-07-11, 15:32
I'd like to respectfully disagree with the above post, please please please please don't make neocron an extension of Black prophecy. Instanced neocron, the horror! it would undo everything that makes neocron special.
A mix between BP and NC would be nice but NO to any instanced shit !!!!
instancing wut???? NC? wtf, this ain't WOW!
dodgefahrer
15-07-11, 20:56
instancing wut???? NC? wtf, this ain't WOW!
Seems u didnt play BP since there are some stupid instanced areas.
According to this is just wanted to say that NC would loose much of its unreached feeling if KK would do this in an upcoming NC3.
You are correct my good sir, i haven't play at all BP since beta or closed beta so...
Apocalypsox
16-07-11, 05:21
Just want NC. with zones four times the size of current zones, plox. and a huge sniper rifle I can shoot people from halfway across the zone with.
Then I will be content.
EXCEPT YOU BASTARDS THOUGHT I FORGOT BAHAHAHAHAH I WANT MY FUCKING COMBAT MECHS ASHJFDKASTHKASNDF
:lol:
:angel:
William Antrim
16-07-11, 11:45
When you think about it here nc could easily marry up with Black Prophecy. Sure you would have to mix up the factions a little and add in the Genides and Tyi or whatever they call themselves these days but if it brings the 2 communities together i am all for it.
I am dead set against instancing in certain areas but in order to bring the less pvp orientated players then I would be happy to make the compromise to have some instanced levelling areas. Just limit them down as people get higher in level. If the populations got to a point where we needed instancing (heaven forbid!?) then i would be happy to take that just so I had a player base to trade with. My enemy today might be my friend tomorrow and i need to trade with friends and enemies alike to progress in this game.
I hate to say this to the wow haters but I think this is one of the reasons why wow is so successful. If we get even 1% of the playerbase that wow has then we would have literally thousands of targets (err sorry players).
In my personal opinion, for a game like wow, instancing works because it doesn't conflict with the lore of the game. Neocron is cool specifically because there's only one world, and if you travel through it, you can find all the people in that world, and it all fits in that atmosphere of the post apocalyptic cyberpunk.
Instancing leads to pve being seperated from pvp, or making pvp "fair". The whole thrill of neocron is that fact that at any point in the game, you can be ganked by some asshole capped player while you're leveling your /20 spy by meleeing spiders. In an instanced game, this would never happen. It's the immersion in a game, the atmosphere of that immersion and the reality of fear and thrill that simply no other mmo has been able to include in a game that makes neocron special. Instancing this would simply ruin the one thing that makes neocron this awesome.
dodgefahrer
16-07-11, 18:48
Instancing this would simply ruin the one thing that makes neocron this awesome.
/Signed !!!!!
Doc Holliday
17-07-11, 08:11
In my personal opinion, for a game like wow, instancing works because it doesn't conflict with the lore of the game. Neocron is cool specifically because there's only one world, and if you travel through it, you can find all the people in that world, and it all fits in that atmosphere of the post apocalyptic cyberpunk.
Instancing leads to pve being seperated from pvp, or making pvp "fair". The whole thrill of neocron is that fact that at any point in the game, you can be ganked by some asshole capped player while you're leveling your /20 spy by meleeing spiders. In an instanced game, this would never happen. It's the immersion in a game, the atmosphere of that immersion and the reality of fear and thrill that simply no other mmo has been able to include in a game that makes neocron special. Instancing this would simply ruin the one thing that makes neocron this awesome.
big before i say this i want to make it clear that i do agree with your post (apart from meleeing spiders at level 20 :wtf: :lol: surely you would have a store bought piece of shit pistol by then no?) but dont you think maybe they will need to compromise a little on the "hardcore atmosphere" to cater for a wider appeal.
it worries me that this may happen but i can honestly see it in order to float the ship again as it were.
not really, neocron was great exactly because it was a niche market. KK neither has the skills nor the resources to go up against the mainstream giants such as Bioware or world of warcraft. The only way for non-sony/wow mmo's these days to survive is to either go free2play and hope a lot of kids buy freaky outfits, or to carve out a niche for themselves (like eve did). if neocron would start catering to the mainstream, imho it would then start going up against the giants, and that is simply a fight they would lose. The fight they could win is the niche market, and their niche market with neocron is the hardcore fear-based post-apocalyptic mmo shooter, and anything that weakens that core would mean less differentiation from the big ones.
BP took eve, and just made it look a bit better, and added twitch combate, so they already tried to approach of going more mainstream, and tbh, it's not even a really bad effort (apart from the age old KK problem of being unable to patch basic problems), but still the whole game is losing players faster than it is gaining them (from what I can tell, but honestly I haven't really looked into it much since the 2 days I tried the game and abandoned it)
(and to respond to the meleeing joke, of course ;))
but dont you think maybe they will need to compromise a little on the "hardcore atmosphere" to cater for a wider appeal.
it worries me that this may happen but i can honestly see it in order to float the ship again as it were.
Isnt that the point of the LE chip to begin with though? if you dont want the hardcore losses in pvp etc. then you leave it in. Making this clearer during intro / tutorial would cover the point really.
William Antrim
17-07-11, 14:47
Isnt that the point of the LE chip to begin with though? if you dont want the hardcore losses in pvp etc. then you leave it in. Making this clearer during intro / tutorial would cover the point really.
Exactly.
The problem is with a niche market you dont get the players, NC needs players. If it goes huge one day which lets face it with marketing and basic bug fixing it is possible; then instancing is a better way of handling the player base. I dont know anything about server side loads or any of that or if the instanced dungeon is moved onto another server in wow or whatever. I have heard this happens but not sure. Anyway the point is, yes you can get ganked and all of that but thats the same as playing WOW on an open pvp server. They have the pvp flag on the carebear realms but there are popular realms with pure open world pvp.
I totally agree with you that neocron needs players, but I feel very strongly that making neocron 3 more mainstream will make the game LESS attractive to people instead of more attractive.
eve is a niche market, do they lack for players? did nc1 lack for players? it was even more hardcore/niche than it is now.
niche doesn't mean low populations, niche means non-mainstream
a niche market in the current age, can be up to a few million players.
but if you try for mainstream, but don't have the resources to beat the big boys, you just fail miserably, like all the mmos that have failed in the last few years.
my point was twofold. First of all it was the point that people making an instanced game, will want to balance those instances so there are pvp, pve and level specific zones, otherwise instancing doesn't make a lot of sense.
The second and most important point is, that instancing makes a user aware of the fact that they are in a game. In a game like wow, the instancing is explained with magic and because it's mostly questing. In neocron, the point of 90% of the game is the immersion in the world, and the feeling that you are actually in this world with those people. All those evil people that want to hurt you are exactly in that one world with you, and every corner you take can result in finding those people, but it also means that all your friends are in that exact world, and if you go to the place you knew ur mate was leveling a few hours ago, you can check out that location and see for yourself, there aren't a thousand places exactly like it, and if you drop your belt in that one location, it will still either be there, or be hacked there.
This continuity is what makes neocron great imho.
If I wanted good pvp, I'd go play a round based shooter. If I wanted a good pve experience, I'd go play a single player or co-op game. If I just want adrenaline, I'll go play f3ar. I want my neocrack, I want to be in a postapocalyptic world with my friends and enemies, and I wanna to be scared shitless, or be zerged by 10 people attacking my op.
Tacking this onto black prophecy will make it a shitty game, simple as that. Neocron needs it's own intimacy, not to be some planet tacked onto black prophecy.
Exactly.
The problem is with a niche market you dont get the players, NC needs players. If it goes huge one day which lets face it with marketing and basic bug fixing it is possible; then instancing is a better way of handling the player base. I dont know anything about server side loads or any of that or if the instanced dungeon is moved onto another server iu can get gn wow or whatever.
Its actually a fairly easy switch. Just think of it like Eve Online or Planetside. Simple. Each zone is its own area / server (each space sector or continent is a seperate server roughly speaking). You have multiple servers each running a different zone or set of zones and when your moving around them, its effectively one world but your data traffic is simply being handled by different servers depending where you are. NC's current netcode probably couldnt do it (or maybe it can, who knows!), but if they are genuinely looking at NC3 and updating engines etc. then its something that would make sense for them to look at if they wanted bigger numbers without separating the community.
You cant compare EVE to NC the games are too different. EVE built its niche market yes but what most people dont like to admit is that EVE is built around a "carebear" client base, the people who do nothing but haul, mine, build and do agent missions in empire (safe) space. That is how EVE has grown and they are the vast majority of the EVE player base. Only the minority, if a very vocal minority are full time 0.0 players, pirates, mercs or other pvpers. Also to say that EVE has no instances is factually right but agent missions areas are basically instancing by a different name.
I do believe NC should stay away from instancing unless there is a huge population explosion to warrant it, but they should cater for the non-pvp type player. Some will argue that is where the LE comes in but the main failing with the LE is that it removes the social aspect from the game by denying its users the ability to make and join clans.
A way around this I think would be something along the lines of a newbie faction that is LEd by default and if they remove the LE they are kicked and made to then choose a faction, maybe use something like the Traders Union as it is technically already a faction and so should be usable with little work from KK.
Also to make the game more newbie friendly shop bought weapons should be better atleast at lower TLs so that they dont have to worry about being having to go through the effort of finding researcher, constructors and then potentially be robbed because the constructor or researcher is bored and feels likes chasing a new player away. Althought a better alternative to this would be player shops or an auction house. Adding in some group levelling zones for lowbies probably wouldnt be a bad idea and would especially help those who were silly enough to role a ppu from the start. Make them combat zones but limit them to a maximum **/** so that while a group can be wiped out by being pked they dont have to worry about 1 capped player taking them out just for the sake of it.
Adding microtransactions, wouldnt be the worst idea in the world aslong as it doesnt give anybody an advantage i.e. no spawned all artifact items that others can only have to constructed quaility, no weapons that can be only bought through microtransactions. Selling things like Gold PA or making it so that you have a clan crest that then shows up on specially purchased PAs and simple things like that or even scrap the better quaility shop bought items and make it so they can be bought using microtransactions aslong as they are no better the constructed items.
As for making NC3 a add on to BP I dont really know. My love of NC comes from the fact that there are so many factions and even with allied factiosn you dont really know if you will be attacked or not. BP has a standard red versus blue which I think takes away from games so unless they can write in a several faction storyline to the game I wouldnt be overly supportive but I could understand it from a commerical point of view.
Anyway thats my waffle over for today.
Oh yeah finally capped int on Ayane (my contruction spy) Woohoo only took 8 years!! I will be probably rolling a new tank in the next few days if any of the old crew want to join me.
oh I wasn't comparing eve in any way to nc except that they are both niche markets, while eve has loads of players, and KK scared away most for nc.
atm in nc, each zone is probably it's own server (physical or virtual), least in the netcode sense (sending world info to the clients)
I'm not against micropayments in neocron btw, but then it would have to be done right, and seeing the bullshit KK is pulling in BP, I don't think that'll work out.
William Antrim
18-07-11, 18:16
All of the above would work. I think everyone agrees on that point. Instancing doesnt take anything away from the game though. All that stuff you want in NC you get in WoW Biglines. The only difference is the 5 man dungeons and the bigger raids and stuff get instanced. Everything else in the realms I play on are open world. I get attacked while levelling all the time. I got my first smash on a player 3 levels higher than me last night cos i got jumped while fighting and I battered him. The adrenaline rush was just the same as i ever got in nc!
You can move the big raiding areas where you need a big coordinated team onto instanced levels because the last thing you want in a 25 man raid is some ***t coming in and ganking your ppu when youre not looking.
I dont care who thinks thats hardcore or not hardcore and all of that other bullshit. Fuck that. Its annoying. I have played this game for nearly a third of my life on and off and I am far from hardcore. It is irritating because it encourages the lowest form of pvp, the gank. I am all for open world pvp but I want to have the choice to do it or not do it and I do not mean the LE. I dont want a carebear flag either where i can turn it on and off and talk smack at people with no reciprocation back on me. I want to have the best of both worlds, pve when i want it and pvp.
That is how the mass market wants it, hence the popularity of the big games. If that brings in more players I am willing to make that compromise. I am more than happy with that. I have seen this game from the beginning of retail almost and I have watched it decline in that time massively. Why not copy an idea that works? NC with wow mechanics would be epic. Seriously, anyone who has seriously pvp'ed in the latest season in wow would agree imo. I would only want the PVE instanced though, not pvp. I am not sure if this point came across in previous posts.
Instanced Pvp would suck the big one for reasons previously discussed. We then have the best of both worlds as I have already said further up.
I think I got it yes, but to me the whole point of neocron is the fact that the pve and pvp are in that world, not in some special little world created just for me and my team.
But we might disagree on that ;) (the fact you apparently enjoy a game like WoW makes us different in what sort of games we enjoy already (not bashing WoW, just saying it's not for me))
hell, the original point was to ask not to make neocron a weak expansion of a mediocre game (noone can seriously say BP is anywhere near the originality and quality of gameplay of neocron)
William Antrim
19-07-11, 18:41
But if we copy a tried and tested system that is popular then we can all find ourselves more fun in this game because we would have the players back, hopefully.
I remember when WOW first came out. Oh how we mocked the people who went to play it. We had banners on the forums saying no more elves and shit like that. It was hilarious.
I like open world pvp. I like big team games of pvp with objectives in the world to take and hold. I like games where i can tweak my characters set up and collect items to make my guy punch harder, run faster or jump higher or whatever else to make him better. I like to talk some smack to my fellow players when i am doing this. That is all i want from a game. I stuck stoically with nc through Wows first inception and its second and even as far as the Wrath of the Lich King add on. They had a Lich king and we had Jini! We lost in comparison. I am not into the whole levelling bs, or the questing. Everything is about the pvp. You can now play wow in its entirety through pvp. There is some open world pvp but there is also instanced battlegrounds. With the size of the servers it needs to be instanced because if it was openworld alot of people would never get to level.
All i am saying is there are probably a nice percentage of wow players who are likeminded to myself and plenty of others who have played this game over the years.
If KK borrows some of the points that work in terms of pvp in wow or some other popular games then adds their own magic to that (magic and technology can coexist btw - Shadowrun, nuff said) then there is a chance NC will become popular again.
Thats the point I am trying to make.
It sounds like we are agreeing in a round about sort of way but your impression of wow makes you think differently?
If NC had more than a few thousand players in it none of us would ever be able to level anywhere because the game is too small. You would have groups of players rocking up and fighting over levelling spots and noone would ever get anything done.
I am not into that whole carebear lets go raid the dragons mountain shite. If i wanted that I would have stuck with Tolkien. I want something that ticks the above boxes (like nc used to and wow still does) and has players (nc doesnt, wow does).
not really, if the thing from wow you want to add is instanced pve, then no we disagree ;) it's exactly the thing that breaks the gaming experience for me, and as such would suck in neocron imho, it's exactly the reason why I don't play WoW (or any other magicky fantasy mmo's). I don't like all those game mechanisms that are used in those mmo's because they're too lazy to have it make sense. "it's magic" is just an excuse for bad story telling/lazy marketing.
but like I said, it's a matter of taste whether you like it or not. Doing it would make me not like neocron, and I personally think it would bring fewer people to neocron instead of more. If things appeal to a big audience, those things are generally already done in a big mmo, and done better than KK can do them.
William Antrim
23-07-11, 17:33
not really, if the thing from wow you want to add is instanced pve, then no we disagree ;) it's exactly the thing that breaks the gaming experience for me, and as such would suck in neocron imho, it's exactly the reason why I don't play WoW (or any other magicky fantasy mmo's). I don't like all those game mechanisms that are used in those mmo's because they're too lazy to have it make sense. "it's magic" is just an excuse for bad story telling/lazy marketing.
but like I said, it's a matter of taste whether you like it or not. Doing it would make me not like neocron, and I personally think it would bring fewer people to neocron instead of more. If things appeal to a big audience, those things are generally already done in a big mmo, and done better than KK can do them.
I dont want pve. I want to pvp with players, same as i have always said. I want a population.
ok ;)
(fruitless discussion, you want pvp and players and the effects of instanced pve would be irrelevant to you, which is good. To me it wudn't be, but as said, matter of taste ;))
William Antrim
24-07-11, 19:54
The short version is I don't mind what they do with this game as long as it brings in players. Yes that may make me a corporate sell out and not a die hard player any more and all of that stuff but i just want to see nc back how it used to be.
Hello All,
I stirred a hornets nest with the term "...instancing...". I wanted to correct myself. Sorry I did not do this sooner. I used the term “instancing”(incorrectly) to suggest another thought; I agree with BigLines that “instancing” NC would be counterproductive. I apologize for using it in the wrong way. I agree that instancing NC as a WHOLE, would be undesirable.
What I did intend on implying with my previous post was to "cloud"/duplicate areas of, let us say a cave, a sector, etc.., then use these areas as an extra revenue generator (rental area) for clan based groups, or leveling groups (one clan against another, one player inviting others to level), to level in peace in their own area, an area that offers privacy. Sort of like having your own server dedicated. Yes, this would make OP Gr’s less used but, the renting of private space would generate more real revenue for the company if a larger player base existed.
It would also encourage a change in clan behavior; such as shutting down the Bonus and GR’s. If they want to generate revenue then they will need to generate a clan that is on 24/7 to guard the OP and then encourage the trades to come to their OP area to generate revenue.
Please keep in mind that all these thoughts go hand in hand with thoughts developed below… Please read on to see how the above comments fold into the Big-picture I am trying to make visible.
A private leveling area (sold as a Premium mod) would allow a player or players (NC world Based or infiltrators from other worlds who have met NC requirements) to lease mining sectors, cave sectors for hunting rare components and parts that can be used to create PvP weapons that are usable on different planets.
Now think of Black prophecy as a CORE for other mmo’s to re-use their off-line mmo worlds; renew them as Home Worlds for BP Universes and Galaxies.
BP will have a dynamic and interactive on-line world greater then WoW or any other MMO. You will have almost instantaneous growth in player base because of former mmo players that played the off-line mmo hearing that their mmo is coming back as an add on world of Black Prophecy.
A HUGE trading system to source items characters use on all worlds and in space can be developed. Some of these developments (such as Hollo suits) can be the mechinism that allows a runer from a different world to interact and use items from another planet.
If a hollo suit is used then the character needs to purchase “Rental Premium” mods to "Work/PvP/PvE" on that other world or, they can PURCHASE the ADD-ON Game pack of that mmo to develop a HomeWorld character and conduit Black market trading. one costs money for time but allows access, the other requires time and effort to develop character but an out of pocket cost that supports the revenue chain.
Black Prophecy Space can create ships unique to each world for battling BP content, doing missions to improve those ships abilities, and use the multiple ADD-on Home World’s to resource components to make items needed in BP space and items that create universally balanced weapons for PvP or PvE fighting on any world.
So, what I am saying to my favorite development company/team is…
Purchase/negotiate the right(s) to use the off-line MMO’s (or active ones with life about to end), and integrate them as New Home worlds for Black Prophecy. Distribute these worlds throughout BP space. Why nor re-use them? Create a BP purchase pack, each add-on can be purchased like I said above or you can least time on that planet to do your business/land cloaked.
Hollo suits will disguise Aliens, allow to develop/level a character to a faction (but not join a clan). For Clan right's or Home world rights you need to purchase an add-on pack and start from scratch. For example: Fighting with weapons from that world would require you to recover a lost faction I.D. tag and level you runner to that faction. You would not get an apartment but, could purchase a Premium mod for Go-Go storage access (again limited) or, remove the hollo suit (that makes you look like an NC runner)and fight with the universal weapons that are put together from many worlds (which are specifically balanced as a whole for any world fight.
Contract the best of the off-line mmo’s and then re-use them. Integrate features that give’s BP world upon world to choose from, with a trading system that should allow you to really develop a Premium mod System so large that the costs can be reduced and the economy of scale will deliver.
You preserve the existing worlds for development (gaining their old client base) and allow for space travel/Fighting in BP.
Keep the F2P BP world and FEE base (by month) the Add-on worlds selling the world package for a fee and then a low monthly fee for continued activation on that world on BP supporting that ADD-on clouds operation costs.
Create a low monthly/yearly storage fee system for players that want an add-on world's character(s) stored because they don't want to pay the higher monthly fee. Even at $12 per year you should not have to store for free a players stuff beyond 30 day's if they want to take a break. Sure they own the game /add-on and can get the updated for free but, if they do not pay the monthly access fee for the add on then 30 days means deletion and they will have to start all over. I say sell storage insurance per year for up to 4 add-on accounts and a separate storage insurance for BP accounts.
Now, if NC was added to BP (just saying) then, I am suggesting that it is added as an extension pack. NC is and always will be it's own world (like the others) and can be re-developed and modified as an independent game but, think of the additional revenue that could be generated to NC as it's own world with thousands of BP players looking for a world to call their "Home World" is significant.
Tell me Nidhogg/Snowcrash, haven't people been asking for walk around worlds, space stations? Why not re-use other worlds and offer their owners the ability to make more cash from a shelved item? It would be passive cash (to a certain extent) for you after the initial development standards.
I have many thoughts about this concept but, I believe the people at NC/BP can make a new market for reusing other shelved mmo’s and create a BP CORE that could encourage independent development by outsiders delivering new and exciting material to BP and all this would extend your own shelf life while creating an interesting collaboration of developers enhancing their signed on produce and wanting it secure from trouble.
Respectfully,
JohnGalt
nope, I meant instancing partially for specific groups :p "leveling in peace" is completely counterproductive to neocron's atmosphere imho ;), the same with not being able to walk from one place to the other and passing all the zones along the way. Actually instancing the whole world would probably be the same as it is now, as different servers, which isn't a bad thing when populations are high.
same still for making neocron an addon for a crappy game (BP), please don't, keep neocron a separate game. People seeing neocron added as an addon to BP will just think "oh great, now it's just a minigame". If it's added as an addon, it will never be viewed as better as the game it's added to, and so you'll keep the entire majority of people who don't like BP from playing neocron.
Leveling in peace is possible - Just don't remove your LE.
Now the LE gets forgotten often or included with some big arguments. I'm sort of the side of keep the LE with it's current mechanic in game. If the LE's want to PvE they can.
If they want to PvP they can, but they should know the price is you can't put it back it.
Leveling in peace is possible - Just don't remove your LE.
Now the LE gets forgotten often or included with some big arguments. I'm sort of the side of keep the LE with it's current mechanic in game. If the LE's want to PvE they can.
If they want to PvP they can, but they should know the price is you can't put it back it.
agreed, the LE makes far more sense to me than instancing pve.
Hell if you want to make it more mainstream friendly, make it possible to put the LE back in at any level (for a cost, either micropayment or a lengthy and expensive quest/operation or something)
@JohnGalt: the instancing that you are thinking of is the very same game mechanic that you find in WOW, F2P games in general.
this is not useful in NC 'cause NC doesn't work and wasn't made with this game mechanism. is it like introducing RTS into FPS game... doesn't work without breaking something...
this is not useful in NC 'cause NC doesn't work and wasn't made with this game mechanism.
agreed ;)
is it like introducing RTS into FPS game... doesn't work without breaking something...
Well it doesn't always work, but natural selection (Hl1 mod) and natural selection 2 (coming out soon, standalone) did a very good job of combining the two ;)
natural selection? what is that? i never heard of it before...
I am speaking not from a game players view but, a revenue view. SOME carefully constructed offerings could open up other sales points. It will not affect those that do not wish to lease an instanced area.
Look NC lives if it generates revenue. I dislike the F2P format but, an instances arena for a PvP fight can impose PvP fighting criteria and also allow for a configuration board to remove outside assistance, limit weapons and so forth.
We can hash all we want about NC this and NC that. More players will not exist unless the game makes cash and continues to employ the attractions NC delivers now. Competitive MMO's will draw their player base from strong but outdated mmo's.
Do you actually think WoW's competitive edge for keeping players is their repetitive development or the strong investment in time and effort in building the character and moving up in clan rank.
I like Halo, great forge, map's, competitiveness, but it lacke all the trimmings NC has as well as the freedom. What would NC be like if we could shoot out into space and return with the components we need for an off world weapon?
I am saying not just add-it on but make it a hub for trades and universe PvP competition.
I am saying a single concept game is not the future and we are the last few who see NC's stickey features that still entertain us.
Wouldn't it be nice to have other worlds a monk could hammer spells on. A tank could fight off mobs.
NC can live from charity or it can pay some dividends back in it's reuse as a MAJOR add-on world for BP. As I see it I have heard no-one say that NC will be completely rebuilt/developed. Even Kirk has said there will be only so much time and ability to bring NC back the way it is.
We need to focus on constructive ideas and create a give and take environment where new players will come and then stay paying and providing for a more involved view for NC because cash is coming in.
My overall idea has it's hurdles but will allow a significantly shorter development time and allow Reakktor to use some creative thinking to get other off-line mmo's to do some of the work they need and negotiate some passive cash.
I defiantly desire NC to go on, but I do not have the cash either to make the next generation. Let us deliver ideas that will achieve these goals.
JG
that could be sarcasm but in the case of actual interest:
http://www.youtube.com/user/NaturalSelection2HD (it's a youtube channel showing the current state of natural selection 2).
Natural selection 1 was a mod for half life, which combined fps combat, with a non-symetrical team system (aliens vs marines, aliens being mostly melee and agile, marines being tech-heavy), and mixed that with a rts influence where a commander sits in a command station and commands the marines and builds bases, gathers resources provides weapons and upgrades for the marines, etc etc. It won numerous awards for being the best mod out there.
Now ns2 is a commercial sequel, costing about 35 dollars to pre-order now. The cool thing about pre-ordering is that you can already play the current beta of the game. (And by beta I mean it is far readier than any of the recent shooters has been on release, and with almost always a weekly patch, sooner if there are gamebreaking bugs). The aliens now also gained a commander, and some changes in gameplay (aliens can now "infest" areas). The beta already has seen a number of clanmatches, some of them broadcast on that channel posted at the top.
The developers themselves are very cool, they are an indy team of originally 3 (now around 10), who built the engine and game from scratch. Contrary to KK they actually know how to communicate with the community, and because of that have one of the biggest fan commitments I've ever seen. (when the preorder option was opened up, there was a 20 dollar normal edition, and a 40 dollar special edition, where the special edition only included a different colour armour as marine. 99% of the pre-orders in the first months were for the special edition, raising thousands of dollars which has gone into another big round of development that has allowed them to put in a lot of big features that were gonna be scrapped if the response hadn't been that good.
Of course you have some trolls whining that the release date has been postponed almost a year now, but they have always shown what the extra time has been used for (putting in dynamic infestation, extra maps, extra work on the different lifeforms/techtrees, bug fixing etc), and well... the game is already more playable (from a bug and feature perspective) than neocron has ever been.
oh and it's gonna be VAC protected, so while that is not completely cheat-proofing, at least it won't be as casually easy to cheat without consequences as it is here.
I am speaking not from a game players view but, a revenue view. SOME carefully constructed offerings could open up other sales points. It will not affect those that do not wish to lease an instanced area.
The gameplay itself has never been the problem with nc. It's the fact that pretty much from nc1, the quality of the game has gone down with every patch, the game is pretty much completely ignored, and almost nothing is done to address problems like exploits and cheats.
Make neocron exactly the same as it was in nc1, with upgraded graphics, a proper anti-cheat system, and a good developer team behind it, and it will crush earthrise, fallen earth and whatever fps mmo's there are out there, whatever payment system you choose.
you're saying a single concept game is not the future, but tell me one single success story of a multi-concept game? tacking together multiple games into one simply doesn't work, and if it was going to work, it would require the likes of blizzard, bethesda or bioware to pull it off, not KK.
with BP they proved one good thing. They can take an existing gameplay idea, and make it look damn good. Do the same with neocron, hell if you have to make it properly free to play (not like BP).
There's a reason that wow is so popular, it's because they took a very unoriginal gameplay idea, and executed it very very well (technically, graphically and gameplay wise, WoW is not my kind of game, but for it's kind it's the best done mmo).
I'll keep my hopes up for a proper sequel, neocron 3 (lol I know right, hope), not some addon to BP.
I agree with you it's better to come up with original ideas and hope KK takes a few of them and makes a better neocron for us, but I just genuinely believe that tacking multiple games together will just mess up all of them. I'm not trying to just be negative about the future, but I genuinely feel combining multiple games into one will only bring out the worst in all of them.
The gameplay itself has never been the problem with nc. It's the fact that pretty much from nc1, the quality of the game has gone down with every patch, the game is pretty much completely ignored, and almost nothing is done to address problems like exploits and cheats.
Make neocron exactly the same as it was in nc1, with upgraded graphics, a proper anti-cheat system, and a good developer team behind it, and it will crush earthrise, fallen earth and whatever fps mmo's there are out there, whatever payment system you choose.
you're saying a single concept game is not the future, but tell me one single success story of a multi-concept game? tacking together multiple games into one simply doesn't work, and if it was going to work, it would require the likes of blizzard, bethesda or bioware to pull it off, not KK.
with BP they proved one good thing. They can take an existing gameplay idea, and make it look damn good. Do the same with neocron, hell if you have to make it properly free to play (not like BP).
There's a reason that wow is so popular, it's because they took a very unoriginal gameplay idea, and executed it very very well (technically, graphically and gameplay wise, WoW is not my kind of game, but for it's kind it's the best done mmo).
I'll keep my hopes up for a proper sequel, neocron 3 (lol I know right, hope), not some addon to BP.
I agree with you it's better to come up with original ideas and hope KK takes a few of them and makes a better neocron for us, but I just genuinely believe that tacking multiple games together will just mess up all of them. I'm not trying to just be negative about the future, but I genuinely feel combining multiple games into one will only bring out the worst in all of them.
Although it seems we tend to disagree more than we agree, I actually agree with every word you've said there ;)
Although it seems we tend to disagree more than we agree, I actually agree with every word you've said there ;)
nah, we just discuss most things endlessly :p it's a difference ;)
I am not basing my communication of integration on KK. Kirt is running the show and some of the original NC team do pop in and have done some minor work on NC since the first comments were made about insolvency.
There has been no success of integrating multiples (formerly single mmo's in the past because they were all built on a self interest basis expected to make profit for just themselves (so to speak).
With so many failures in their ability to keep them online I am sure an innovative concept with a strong communication development leader can introduce possibilities that would open up a larger world while still producing revenue for the core that binds them all together, that being BP.
Each mmo that is chosen will have those that want to just (mainly) decide to stick to playing that mmo. All chosen and worked into the scheme will have an additional storyline/actions that contribute to the BP concept and at times if the missions for BP and off world components as well as PvP amongst different worlds is introduced creatively, will add additional (non-boredom potential for players.
I agree Biglines that your comments on NC1 orientation are strong and that would serve NC's growth and with the interesting trades NC has allow for more than just faction interaction with players.
Maybe I should say NC's implants and NC1's balancing should be the basis of the multiple mmo integration. There needs to be a standard. Implants can look like anything but their actual effect can revolve around one mmo's beginnings.
Other clouds are presenting many games independent of each other, and you are correct in the assumption that "I" cannot provide you of one mmo successfully integrating other mmo's into one world.
I say that this is a time for innovation, mmo's are off-line and the financiers do not see reason to invest in them for redevelopment do they (and this is aside from having a sufficient player base to cover operational expenses.
Why not create an internal market for the off-line mmo's, why not see if a good development team can have someone convince the off-line (useful) mmo owners that they have an opportunity for them to recycle their currently (and more than likely permanently shelved) game into something new with significantly less investment?
Why shouldn't OUR NC and BP development team benefit from the interaction with others that would like to work with them (as partners, BP/NC is the final say/controller).
We have asked before for Reakktor to let us help rebuild NC (many of you more qualified than I) and they have said "Well think about it" sort of).
If the risk of failure is spread out over 5 or 10 mmo's chosen as useful toward my proposal (and it would only take 2 or 3 to see if the people bite at the concept) then maybe some additional financing can be found (as well as developers that would like to make some extra money from their older off-line game) and a new market can be found; and our NC/BP team will profit by this.
I do not want to CHANGE NC. I am saying innovate. Kirt Lenke has stated that NC will not be rebuilt but, they will do what they can. He has kept his work at keeping NC on-line though. I have to respect that. i do not forget Nidhogg, Snocrash and the others who have been here and still answer our posts and pvt emails (thank you).
I am (as I have said before) thinking of survival and that our ideas (to support survival0 need to include profit making mechanisms for the company. They will not be able to just focus on NC now that BP is working and needs to continue to generate profit.
Although, creativity in finding finance for a new feasibility approach to the on-line mmo market could draw investment, especially if certain barriers to entry into a market as I am suggesting can be found and secured legally.
Hell, maybe the overall game could have some instancing for the tablet market but offer a greater experience from laptop/pc. I truly am a devoted fan of NC but isn't it obvious over the last 9 years that it has been mostly MONEY that has hurt the once desired long-term development and argument over rights second; whether KK was the main cause or not those two issues are the core.
Now, most insolvency appears to be flowing past, BP is a great game with (as NC) great potential. Use NC as an example, give the BP players what they want; a walk around world, NC1 style, integrate new BP missions and resource development etc..., etc... As I am assuming Gamigo does not own NC therefore; this add on world can increase player base and offer additional revenue to Gamigo AND NC. The tricky parts will be to assure that the interest Gamigo has will not be secondary to the NC goals but I believe that can be negotiated.
This will require growth for our team if successful, and I find it hard to believe that the BP community will not embrace the coolness of NC.
Biglines, Brammers if I sound like i am not following in your view of NC to the point of how the world should be then I do apologize. i agree with much u say but, survival will have to be negotiated and NC can have a HUGE population growth connected to BP. If I had the cash I would prove it.
Respectfully,
JohnGalt
@JohnGalt no need to apologise, your opinion counts just as equally as mine. ;)
My thoughts on MMO's is it's changed massively over the last 2-3 years. There have been some big failures. (Hellgate London springs to mind) Star Wars Galaxies is closing this year. Anyone remember the NC>SWG T-shirts and the great NC vs SWG arguments on the forums here? And lets not forget Face of Mankind, which many labelled it as the NC Killer.
Also the biggest change is the transition from subscription to F2P. Lord of the Rings was the first major MMO there, and somehow it's making 3 times more money in the cash store than it did before.
Bucking the trend seems to be Star Wars the Old Republic, on 3 counts, one for making a new MMO in the first place, and 2 for being a subscription game as well. (Well it's likely I've heard) and 3 for it's massive budget. I've heard 300million (Not sure if it dollars or pounds) with 100 million on voice acting alone. Fortunately for BioWare they know Star Wars fans = Lots of money.
On the BP side of things, well KK are still working on that, and that's a good thing. Does bother me some of the foul-ups I read on the forums and in reviews. However without any word from KK on Neocron it appears KK are 100% focused on BP and 0% on NC.
So with all that in mind, NC3 as a re-built from scratch MMO? It's going to be an interesting one. If they work on building and fixing NC2 that would work if the players come back. Although it's going to be hard working with code and technology that's 10+ years old.
Think I've said this many times before, what makes NC great, to me it's the atmosphere. The big mistake in NC2 was going from faction based wars to Red vs Blue. Thankfully that was fixed in the great F6 patch, and also it felt great to be home in Techhaven again!
The balancing? That can be debated to death, I've yet find a balanced game. So long as the devs keep patching to address balance issues. Players will still find the ultimate pwning setup and others will scream nerf that!
As for the MMO offline idea? Interesting. Need to think and understand what you are saying there before I reply. So for now, I'll stop rambling on and post, since I think I've may have gone a bit OT. :lol:
I think one of the reasons bioware is going against the trend is that they believe their mmo to be introducing story telling into the mmo genre, not sure how succesful it'll be, but I'm a fan of their other work so if they allow accounts without a credit card, I'll be trying that out for myself.
@johngalt no need to apologize, you have well structured and thought-through posts, the fact that I don't agree with some of it probably just gives it credibility ;) I admire your optimism in thinking of new ways to blow life into the game, the fact I don't agree with it is probably a matter of taste or professional disagreement.
I don't totally agree that the big trend is towards f2p. There are still as many p2p games coming out as before. It's just that a lot of smaller studios are also bringing out mmo's nowadays with the success of WoW, but since they are simply unable to bring the same quality to the table, the only way for them to survive is f2p. There are very few really good games that are f2p, and 99% of the f2p genre is crappy remakes of bigger titles or shaky reboots of older failed p2p games. The only f2p game I can think of that has any critical acclaim atm is league of legends.
To my fellow Players,
This is a big one and I hope it answers some questions.
I appreciate both your comments. I apologized because I wanted to be sure words said in a manner less personal than face to face were not perceived as rude or disrespectful; especially to those that have a desire for positive events that power productive results.
Biglines,
I am not a F2P fan. In my opinion F2P lacks the responsible control yet fun and free playing environment that NC enforced. NC (whether or not it was an intention) has and had a moral and ethical balance that eliminates many of the player-base that seeks to disrupt a game world environment. The LE reinforced this. BP has its rules and if the line is crossed you are deleted, period. I like this also but, this does not serve BP as an opportunity to warn those that are part of the revenue food chain.
Brammers "On the BP side of things, well KK are still working on that, and that's a good thing. Does bother me some of the foul-ups I read on the forums and in reviews. However without any word from KK on Neocron it appears KK are 100% focused on BP and 0% on NC."
There is a post from Kirt, in under one of my most upsetting comments I have ever made on the forum that "He" as the Executive Officer states that he will keep NC on-line (for the time being).
So I am a bit confused at "Who" controls what and where the real authority lies with NC. I have heard read endless unpleasant argument about KK over the years but, I cannot be as coarse with KK's actions because even though we were informed the operative word creating the discourse with NC was "Insolvency" the true definition and circumstances surrounding the company's survival are not as defined. I will tend to side with the "My unproven belief" that KK had to do things that created a discontinuity amongst the development team and the business end.
As we can see here and now, KK's decisions wrong or right allow NC to continue on and allow still a possibility of hope for another life span. Yes , KK may have not been the sole or key factor after a certain point which caused NC to still be here and have others say that NC 3 may exist but, it is here and so are we. I think for what ever reason KK was forced to make survival decisions that upset (I am sure to say the least) his co-workers, the company, the development team; there decisions were made for a someone's and or some survival reason. Artist's over the centuries have tossed out their masterpieces and even painted over them if "they" thought it was needed. KK may have committed the same error. Except in this case, it appears Kirk Lenke, and our obvious NC team friends who speak and visit us from time to time, are in some form of control to partner (if applicable) in the fate of this NC world.
I may easily sound like I am defending KK ignorantly but the fact is there are (and were) many things happening behind the mask called "Insolvency" not shared (and not prudent to be shared) with us.
With that said, I respect you both because I have read you words many times, as well as Loki :) and others. I make my "Off-Line" mmo comment because NC could have been simply "Off-Line" a long time ago except people like Snowcrash, Nidhogg and others have contributed greatly to NC as it is no matter the smallest effort. I think these people are artiest who refuse to paint over their masterpiece even though they have created another in the likes of BP.
So, even though I believe Mr. Lenke has his say, personal efforts from those mentioned and not mentioned will give NC a 3rd life or not.
As for my use of the term "Off-line" mmo's Sir Brammers :)...
Yourself, Biglines and Loki have ALL mentioned other mmo's failed, failing and some that are going the old (and still successful route) of being proprietary.
I am suggesting to create a market for some carefully selected mmo's that are going to die or that may have already died; suggest a partnership with the owners/developers of those dead or soon to die mmo's and use them as virtual add-on packs/worlds for BP. BP will be the glue that binds these add-on's together. BP will make ALL the Space Rules/Development and integration decisions, as well as receive percentages of the revenues for using these mmo's as an add-on who would otherwise not had another life to earn revenues.
Now please just think a moment, how long would new content be able to be introduced now "IF" BP development team used their knowledge to hammer out the core storyline changes and resource missions (etc, etc, and what ever other creative actions they come up with).
Walk around, PvP worlds could be introduced (pre determined by BP of course) every few months. Those that partner will do the integration under agreement, some additional Premium mod concepts will be created, additional, missions will require virtual travel to new worlds to become a character on that add-on world or trade with it. these best of the best failed mmo's will keep a very high percentage of their original concept but, now have BP Universes and Galaxies to open up months of new content and interaction with thousands of players.
I am suggesting that the population will have so much space to explore and multiple worlds to create, fight, develop find resources that the core BP world can take their ideas to hundreds and even thousands of weapons, ships, clothing, Premium mod's etc.., etc...
This will mean that someone who joins BP will get a discount on the add-on worlds OR, they can purchase the add-on world and be restricted to playing that mmo as a pay to play.
Now, those solitary Pay2play people will still be able to develop characters, play that world and involve themselves in the economy of BP yet, how long do you think they will just want to stay there when visitors from other places tell them how cool it is to fight on Neocron?
If your going to join a second mmo and you have a chance to make all the time and effort you put into mmo #1 work with the effort in mmo #2 and becoming a member of space travel in BP, and allow you the ability to spend your NC cash or crons from another world to build a ship to fight, hijack and so on...; I think with the careful price adjustments you can draw in thousands of players with BP F2P and then make cash from the other mmo worlds using Premium mod sales and MONTHLY fees to support them and deliver profit to the partner mmo world. All of this at lower costs than they could have done alone.
SOME, instancing, and I mean a creative use of that as a revenue generator hand in hand with dedicated Cloud server time for groups such as clans as a pay to use or rent for a period of time. Would I pay $3-$5 bucks per month to have a "Secret Hidden Space Station" on my own Cloud? what if they stop paying fee's? No big deal, now the Secret area becomes visible and if some lucky clan or person happens upon it the loot and salvaging can be like winning the lottery. I am just creative thinking here...
Holo suits (as I mentioned before) can be used to disguise players from other worlds so they can (to a limited extent) fight and interact with places they are not from, similar concept can disguise space ships so you can land.
If the company has legal conceive the right contracts and revenue is distributed responsible with a partnership then BP should have so many streams of incoming revenue as well as stability that Gamigo will be paid off sooner than later. Off'line mmo's that would have been shelved will make cash as well as BP. Then, your player base will form the worlds. If a partnership goes wrong then, BP can have its hidden enemy take the planet out and good by, back to the shelf.
So, in the metaphor I used above with artists, BP will be the landscape for this virtual civilization. If you asking on how to introduce these add-ons I suggest, the (at one time hidden) enemy in BP can remain the supreme enemy but, the Federation of planets (so to speak, and I realize the existing conflict between the races in BP) can unite when they discover a world held captive by the (once Hidden enemy) and think of a player united battle, huge ships fighting with smaller ship support. Trade skills introduced into be to have unique universal tools to rep and cst on these huge ships as they fight, many players working together on an NPC generated super ship fighting in the battle provided by the story line. The players who unite are rated by percentage scales that if they become a negative to the group they are deleted from the battle and penalized.
NC I see as a Major PvP world and a Core trade-skill world for many of the in-game items need to be built. I would say that there will be plenty to go around.
Now, BP will be the largest Cloud MMo period (I believe) and with BP focusing on BP development and another BP group working with the add-on worlds to keep the standards this could be very large and profitable.
I forgot to mention that the holo suit and ship holo camo concept was just the metric that would be used as the hidden balancing feature in addition to what it does for the player and equipment. In other words if i left NC as a human and arrived on a creature schemed world the purchased (built from resources collected from many places) suit would make me not just look like them but, I would be restricted to the same balancing metrics applied to that world. i would have to buy, make weapons from that world because my existing weapons would not be usable there, unless you applied the concept to the weapons but I see this as not immediately necessary because if an inventory database is created with a cloak for ship as well as character then, while waring that cloak you specific inventory for that disguise would activate the weapons for that world.
I did it again, I wrote another book. I hope this is clearer. What I say is what many players ask for playing a proprietary mmo. BP has a great space environment, think of the missions and fighting it can create with many worlds, think of the Premium stuff sold at an economy of player scale price, think of the add-on worlds supporting their operational time with monthly fees, think of creating a pay to store character house or planet where if you plan to come back it will cost you $0.50-1$ per month per planet you want to store you account info or a flat $24.00 per year (I think that NC was too generous with allowing ppl to come back 5 years later for free.
I have not mentioned farming accounts sold against game policy but, this needs to be combated so I also suggest that you create a limited account auction house for all character reactivation/sale's. If an account is not restored or trades through this system then it simply is deleted when its fees are stopped being paid.
Ok, it is my turn to hush. My excuse is that even though I am not an employee with NC/BP development, I still want to see you all get your rewards. I see BP as being the showcase of not just a great space game but of a large scope human endeavor in a virtual world that in another lifetime will exist in some form, in some future.
As always; My Respectful wishes to the community,
JohnGalt
P.S. Thank-You Brammers, Biglines and Loki as well as SnowCrash, Nidhogg and the rest of you not mentioned for continuously "Stirring the Pot", enticing commentary.
I've become very cynical over the years, and believe the only reason KK is keeping neocron up is because it doesn't cost them much (they as much as came out and admitted it runs on just a few servers, and with the low populations it probably costs less than the janitor to keep running), and it might keep them some credibility for getting people to play their other games (and maybe being able to market "creator of one of the longest running mmo's").
This also pretty much explains the reasons for the outright lies they've told us, and the way they have been utterly ignoring us for the past year, nc is simply being ignored.
so that little rant completed;
It seems you have given it a lot of thought, and from the business side of things it might actually work. But I think from a gameplay point of view, people coming for BP wouldn't be much interested in neocron (or the other games), and the other way around (most of the people I've known here in neocron (and GA) have tried BP, and turned their back on it because it's simply not very good. And from a technological point of view, I think it would be very difficult to make some kind of continuity between multiple games, especially if they are games that already have a player base.
Then again, it might work, and it might actually be a good idea ;)
Well as for BP I have played beta and release. I am not playing atm because I haven't the cash to keep up with the hording of stuff that I like to store and storage is pricey. I did like the game but again, from beta to present, people want mining, walk around stations, PvP walk around and the such.
EDIT-As for KK, I said above, the truth is KK's business and those that it affected in the business. We are lucky that we got what we did for info. I will not condemn KK no matter what KK thinks of me. There is allot unsaid, i won't become the vulture that players have been to him in the past as well as others. Either whoever is in-charge of NC desires our opinions or they are humoring us. It is obvious Chenoa, Nidhogg, SnowCrash (to name a few) want to hear our thoughts. for that i am glad to still have the lines of communication they offer; Kirk hasn't been bad at listen and from time to time responding either.
Noobs form packs and attack people minding their own business, this forces higher up players to seek and destroy first so the noobs go else where. You cannot really just mind you own business and do missions, danger is everywhere. It works but, it get's tiresome. NC allows you to do your own thing. BP needs more do you own thing. Sure space is dangerous but, the mechanisms for harmony are not there. I would like to see the ability to have tough drone ships as my controlled escort to attack 1 to 5 opponents who want to be pricks. That is unlikely...
Players are demanding more than the investors are willing to give them. You will not continue to succeed to play the Machiavellian Card forever.
Let us cut to the heart of the NC world issue, hacks and exploits are the chief issue with NC and PvP. I am still wondering if the security issues are cost effectively solved to allow the thought of NC being an NC3 or add on to BP (if it was considered).
The point of the Le chip was to deter LOOZERS that were in game for 3 minuets and player killed everyone. The Le saved NC simply because it provided "choice". I remember b4 the Le, what a time it was leveling and asking the runners in a pack horde to spare you life so you wouldn't have to spend 20min's to re-poke and get out to the wastelands again.
The strongest Ethic NC had was and is the LE.
There is profit and fair balanced prices available for an economy of scale game. Rich content and plenty to do will draw people and the masses will holler for what they want to have. Most of what they want is available, but not in one place. I am saying BP can be the Place.
JG
anticheat is only expensive in the gm support, since you need actual gms that know about the actual cheats and community (no use banning someone if they come back in 5 minutes with a new account), or you need to invest in either punkbuster, VAC or your own anti-cheat system. The problem with KK is that they simply don't give a fuck, and this comes down on the gms, who are powerless to ban simply because they don't get the support from upstairs, or the complaint is handled by some BP employee who couldn't see a neocron cheat if they were teleporting right in front of them (yes, literal movies of people teleporting into closed UGs or from one end of the wastelands to the other have been "taken under advisement" and utterly ignored)
then of course the utter failure to fix the failed anticheat patch they lied about right in our faces; "yes we're working on it" for almost a year now.
KK simply does not deserve any goodwill concerning anti-cheat, there is 0 effort to fix the problem, and not even enough care in the whole company to tell us the truth about it (one little message like "oh right, nc, uhm ye, we're kinda busy with BP, so we'll get back to you" would have been honest).
Anti-cheat measures and identifying them to GM's (that are not part of the problem) are an operational communication concern. That means, communication and management may not have assured correct and accurate information exchange between the GM staff and themselves. In addition, management includes monitoring of those trusted to enforce policies. I am questionable on some security breaches but, I question many things till trust is proven.
There should have been measures that enabled one or more GM's to enforce violations without micro-management. What I did see somewhat effective was enforcement on idiots that named their runners and or voiced racial and bigoted behavior.
It is unfortunate that this behavior causes a disunity. What was more unfortunate was that there was no event in Germany where we could of had a few beer's with the staff and thanked them for the game.
Decisions made concerning NC created an environment for hacks and lawlessness, and the use of that behavior seemed to exert revenge upon the project. The lack of responsible GM support to eliminate problem runners eventually became unnecessary because the business end having "insolvency" issues opened the door to oversight and I what I see as a breakdown of management.
Would I personally have caused disruption with BP if NC was terminated a couple of years ago, defiantly not. I then, as well as now, desire to see the company succeed. I would like to see NC become something once again, as I am hopeful that BP is earning a profit for all these years of work. We shall see if a hammer is swung in the months to come or, a string of code is produced giving birth to a new world.
I see those of us who are allowed to continue this crusade for the Holy Grail of NC3, residing in a real political environment. An environment deciding the financial feasibility of an NC3 verses a decision; that decision being to decide how to cut the program. It is a soap-opera as complicated (for us) as the virtual storyline of the NC faction's relationships to each other on NC.
I say innovation and creativity with BP is an opportunity to create the biggest game world on-line, with multiple revenue streams, virtual endless things to do that serve the consumer all that they can handle, not just space flight.
If a dam game Called "Angry Bird's" can make hundreds of thousands of dollar's then surely, the mmo market has not exploited enough innovation to deliver the consumer a honey pot of entertainment.
Our world in reality replicates the joy's and sin's of life. A game world that caters to that concept will be very rich. Dam Apple does it with app's and it doesn't even write them all.
JohnGalt
you do know that KK didn't go insolvent, just the publisher that owned KK, then KK got bought up by the new investment company as part of the insolvency of 10tacle, so they have no problems with insolvency anymore (might be overly simplified, but KK hasn't had issues with the insolvency for at least a year now (at the very least since BP got partially sold to Gamigo))
Hey,
look at this; a University looking to enhance data-mining of mmo players to increase profit. http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/36103/New_Research_Startup_To_Identify_Key_Traits_In_MMO_Players.php
I do recall the publisher commentary from the past posts, So you are telling me they are eating and sending the kids to college fine and that my assertion above ring's even truer "...hammer...or...code..." is where we are at.
As I looked at some articles I saw mmo's creating farming and trades stuff. People of different motivations simply want different ways to create wealth and then use that to develop power to beat an opponent, win a battle, create a traders group. If that brings others to buy their goods and services then I see virtual economic development as a key factor for an mmo's richness.
Star Wars Republic seems to have tied in Space and Ground play with weapon assortments, but the visuals are not as realistic as I would like to see. Typical fight and meet the boss activity to.
look at the 3rd article down.
17 current worlds and 500 total to be created.
http://www.mmorpg.com/newsroom.cfm/page/3
The huge, varied world made the game uniquely engrossing. A true USP!
I didn't care about whether the game was heavily instanced or not. It was done right for reasons that i'll mention below, and as always allowed the devs to squeeze more from the engine. Zones enable more variation in many respects when you compare with traditional MMOs and their continent zones with the 'odd' dungeon/instance.
I actually think that although many view zoning as 'primitive' it might have been the driving force behind the varied game world. Although sync between zones was an issue, it was hardly on par with the lengthy loading screens of fps games, and never took you out of the action for too long, unless the dreaded fatal hit.
In regards to NC city, as a result of zones (in tandom with the engine's capabilities). You would be instantly engrossed on entering for the first time. Every building was explorable, every sewer accessible. There was a realistic variation of apartment entrances, we had individual shops & retail sectors, transport (nc subway), night clubs, strip clubs, bars, sewers, hidden passages and faction hqs to name a few.
Until epics were introduced and npcs were given a reason to exsist (other than to behold some paranoid insult or dismillal) many of the leisure areas were just for show, even so, they were explorable. People genuinely felt that they were part of a larger world because of this AND it made for varied, unpredictable pvp.
When chasing down other players in pvp, you had no idea where the battle could end up. In a strip club? Perhaps. A back alley? Perhaps. An apartment? Maybe. Or perhaps you'd end up getting lured into the subway, where their allies are patiently waiting to ambush you?!
Most mmos are just x open space with x textureset, head north or south in a straight line to the next zones etc, perhaps there would be a couple of vertical levels or the odd structure to explore if you're lucky. I also find that many doors and buildings are lifeless textured boxes that you can't explore and the surrounding architectural demographic is always brain-numbingly predictable to the point of relapse.
In Neocron, every part of an environment had its purpose. The design was also intriguing, unpredictable corners, alleys, alternative routes, sky walks etc. A sandbox 'maze' if you will. This kept new players second guessing for longer than with most games, avoiding a sense of repetition too early ; ). It was very refreshing to see a developer not just focusing on large, derelict open spaces with poorly scattered content in an mmo, instead focusing on cramming a small environment with both horizontal and vertical unpredictability and multiple points of interest within a close proximity. Also, the scaling of the city seemed almost perfectly in line with the player population back then. It didnt matter what zone you were in, pepople were regularly zooming past, bartering or vending on almost every corner.
Then there was the wastes. Also a great success because they were designed IN ADDITION to the metropolis within the city limits. Although a more conventional design, it was a logical expansion to the already impressive city of NC and later paved the way beyond PvE and gave us op wars.
You know a world is designed well when you aren't in a hurry to move on! When I played during beta, i had been literally playing for weeks until i ventured beyond, back then the environments just seemed so much more feature rich than anything else i had experienced (and still relativley un-challenged today). By the time i got to lvling in the outzone i was literally taken back by the amount of environmental content that i'd already lvl'd through. Rather than having the urge to move next area, you were generally engrossed in every part of NC. Knowing how small it was compared with the rest of the game world also gave you the sense of being part of a vast game world of epic, feature-rich proportions. KK had pulled this off so well to the point that new players would genuinely mention the wastes almost as if they were end-game. Chat would be filled with quotes like 'You don't want to go out there yet, you'll get eaten alive' or 'You'll get lost venturing through OZ without a guide' or 'I hear there are giant robots the size of buildings in the wastes, wtf'!
Once you did venture outside the city, you'd end up amazed that there were military bases, chapels, outposts, mutant strongholds, caves, mines, deserts, forests, swamps, canyons and much, much more..
:angel:
The huge, varied world made the game uniquely engrossing. A true USP!
I didn't care about whether the game was heavily instanced or not. It was done right for reasons that i'll mention below, and as always allowed the devs to squeeze more from the engine. Zones enable more variation in many respects when you compare with traditional MMOs and their continent zones with the 'odd' dungeon/instance.
I actually think that although many view zoning as 'primitive' it might have been the driving force behind the varied game world. Although sync between zones was an issue, it was hardly on par with the lengthy loading screens of fps games, and never took you out of the action for too long, unless the dreaded fatal hit.
In regards to NC city, as a result of zones (in tandom with the engine's capabilities). You would be instantly engrossed on entering for the first time. Every building was explorable, every sewer accessible. There was a realistic variation of apartment entrances, we had individual shops & retail sectors, transport (nc subway), night clubs, strip clubs, bars, sewers, hidden passages and faction hqs to name a few.
Until epics were introduced and npcs were given a reason to exsist (other than to behold some paranoid insult or dismillal) many of the leisure areas were just for show, even so, they were explorable. People genuinely felt that they were part of a larger world because of this AND it made for varied, unpredictable pvp.
When chasing down other players in pvp, you had no idea where the battle could end up. In a strip club? Perhaps. A back alley? Perhaps. An apartment? Maybe. Or perhaps you'd end up getting lured into the subway, where their allies are patiently waiting to ambush you?!
Most mmos are just x open space with x textureset, head north or south in a straight line to the next zones etc, perhaps there would be a couple of vertical levels or the odd structure to explore if you're lucky. I also find that many doors and buildings are lifeless textured boxes that you can't explore and the surrounding architectural demographic is always brain-numbingly predictable to the point of relapse.
In Neocron, every part of an environment had its purpose. The design was also intriguing, unpredictable corners, alleys, alternative routes, sky walks etc. A sandbox 'maze' if you will. This kept new players second guessing for longer than with most games, avoiding a sense of repetition too early ; ). It was very refreshing to see a developer not just focusing on large, derelict open spaces with poorly scattered content in an mmo, instead focusing on cramming a small environment with both horizontal and vertical unpredictability and multiple points of interest within a close proximity. Also, the scaling of the city seemed almost perfectly in line with the player population back then. It didnt matter what zone you were in, pepople were regularly zooming past, bartering or vending on almost every corner.
Then there was the wastes. Also a great success because they were designed IN ADDITION to the metropolis within the city limits. Although a more conventional design, it was a logical expansion to the already impressive city of NC and later paved the way beyond PvE and gave us op wars.
You know a world is designed well when you aren't in a hurry to move on! When I played during beta, i had been literally playing for weeks until i ventured beyond, back then the environments just seemed so much more feature rich than anything else i had experienced (and still relativley un-challenged today). By the time i got to lvling in the outzone i was literally taken back by the amount of environmental content that i'd already lvl'd through. Rather than having the urge to move next area, you were generally engrossed in every part of NC. Knowing how small it was compared with the rest of the game world also gave you the sense of being part of a vast game world of epic, feature-rich proportions. KK had pulled this off so well to the point that new players would genuinely mention the wastes almost as if they were end-game. Chat would be filled with quotes like 'You don't want to go out there yet, you'll get eaten alive' or 'You'll get lost venturing through OZ without a guide' or 'I hear there are giant robots the size of buildings in the wastes, wtf'!
Once you did venture outside the city, you'd end up amazed that there were military bases, chapels, outposts, mutant strongholds, caves, mines, deserts, forests, swamps, canyons and much, much more..
:angel:
KK; take note.
Great post.
I concur, basically all of that is why I loved this game and still do. If they do make a neocron 3 they should definitely make sure to keep those key features, if they do and advertise properly neocron could easilly be THE best most popular pvp MMO there is, I've still seen no other MMO on the market which had pvp which was enjoyable as neocron pvp.
One of my best memories from neocron was when I was leveling at the bunker at about /30 and some /60 guy decided to try kill me but got slaughtered cos he sucked. In any other MMO because I was half his level I would have lost because *thats how things are done*, if somebody is a higher level they MUST win you may not have a chance of victory!, non of that crap in neocron. Also loved how instead of 1 set of best gear everybody used there was a TON of armour, skill point and weapon setups, most MMOs these days just have 1 set of best gear and 1 best setup for skills... BORING
William Antrim
08-10-11, 20:38
With the introduction of epics there was only ever a handful of setups people would use.
I wish epics could be noncombat related where possible or midlevel combat related tbh.
IE keep the TS and TT rifles but make them usable earlier and get rid of the PPR etc that EVERYONE seems to need for cap.
I want variation rather than a cookie cutter setup.
Also remove Power Armour or have the ability to turn off the visuals so that you gain the effects but cant see the armour on the character. I want to see my clothes when im running around, not some big clunky space suit.
huh? the only epic i ever see used is the ppr, and most people are moving away from those as well? think i only have a ppr on my apu, and thinking bout switching that one out.
but ye, we had this discussion before ;) I've never used a cookie cutter setup, and frankly wudn't know how to make one. Though i agree that there should be some alternative to speed.
William Antrim
09-10-11, 17:03
For years it was all PPR/Moveon/MC5/SF (or their equivalent pistol counterparts when the changes came in). Then you had every Tank with a speedgun as well....
Epics should be balanced in terms of their benefits. All non combat and definitely non-pvp.
Pvp needs to be as vanilla as it possibly can be. This way people can start to pvp earlier and not worry about losing all their good shit....
If people can pvp with store bought items you will see alot more pvp happening I would hope.
hmm i kinda disagree in the current population, but as you probably mean when there are hundreds of players, then yes.
In the current population the dissies and ak's grow on trees, losing weapons certainly isn't a problem atm, except for the GM spawn ones (ionics mostly), just do firemobs for an hour or two and you can have a dissy together (trading unressed)
but as you said, if the populations were to go up again, being able to win with inferior weapons but superior skill should be part of the game again.
William Antrim
09-10-11, 18:09
The current game is a shadow of what it could be. Yes I meant with 300-500 server pops like we used to have.
The current game is a shadow of what it could be. Yes I meant with 300-500 server pops like we used to have.
;) agreed.
just after the free to play, pops rose to 250-300... best times in nc ive had (aside from beta)
dodgefahrer
10-10-11, 10:35
;) agreed.
just after the free to play, pops rose to 250-300... best times in nc ive had (aside from beta)
Yeah nice time back then when server was crowded again=)
I remember when i started with the release of the "Dome of York" and P1 was hella crowded with ppl.
Doc Holliday
10-10-11, 12:07
and p1 wasnt a safe zone :cool: for a while it was cool. i remember blowing away an annoying runner on my tradeskiller who was being a tard and then tried to hide behind the copbots. Beam of Hell > level 40 spy.
however it soon gave way to gankers and it got changed back to being safe. personally i think that this is better as it was the trade hub of nc and i liked it that way. i remember the days of nc1 and having to actually mute local and use dm or trade for business transactions there was so many people there.
Dribble Joy
10-10-11, 13:36
Back when DJ poked, I would stand the the right of the door to medicare and spend hours 'servicing' people.
I did at one point like Techhaven sector 2 being the trade hub for a while in NC2. (And also it was a safe zone)
However, Techhaven not being the home to Fallen Angels wasn't a good move. I'm glad they changed it back in the F6 patch.
What we need now, is some more clans in Techhaven and a couple of raids from a couple of hostile factions. :p It beats pushing off the illegal sandwich makers off from a high height. :wtf:
I remember sneaking into DoY with a small team of snipers and double tapping dirty anti-city scum as they went about their daily lives and then disappearing into the wastelands once the hunting teams got too big.
Also remember people paying me to go to Doy and get them holovests etc and bring them back to Neocron.
William Antrim
10-10-11, 19:46
I remember OP fighting every night for 2-3 hours at a time vs the GLA on Uranus. I remember op fights starting as 10v10 then increasing to 10v15, 10v20, 10v30 and then 10v the german speaking population of the server. I remember whole weekends passing in a blur of alcohol and pringles.
I remember fighting Der Synchronizers, MJ12, RDZ, R2k, =SSC=, UKUSA Rangers and the uTs and even sometimes the Roughnecks too when they werent licking their wounds.
I remember people turning off trade chat when Matt and Lee started flaming and going "oh God sYn are op fighting again".
I remember being in the best pro City Clan since most of the Ronins quit, the only TT clan to ever hold OPs consistently (4) on Uranus despite being hacked most nights.
I remember literally every night getting DM's from new runners asking to join the Regulators because we helped noobs out and still had time to pvp and look good doing it.
I remember Flux coming back to the server and coming to Black Dragon and having some awesome opfights/fight night events with them.
I remember walking into Plaza 1 and seeing clans like Itrek, Technocratic Order, Scorpion Riders, D5G, The Ronins, The uTs and Synchz USA and thinking wow.... now this IS NEOCRON!
I remember OP fighting every night for 2-3 hours at a time vs the GLA on Uranus. I remember op fights starting as 10v10 then increasing to 10v15, 10v20, 10v30 and then 10v the german speaking population of the server. I remember whole weekends passing in a blur of alcohol and pringles.
I remember fighting Der Synchronizers, MJ12, RDZ, R2k, =SSC=, UKUSA Rangers and the uTs and even sometimes the Roughnecks too when they werent licking their wounds.
I remember people turning off trade chat when Matt and Lee started flaming and going "oh God sYn are op fighting again".
I remember being in the best pro City Clan since most of the Ronins quit, the only TT clan to ever hold OPs consistently (4) on Uranus despite being hacked most nights.
I remember literally every night getting DM's from new runners asking to join the Regulators because we helped noobs out and still had time to pvp and look good doing it.
I remember Flux coming back to the server and coming to Black Dragon and having some awesome opfights/fight night events with them.
I remember walking into Plaza 1 and seeing clans like Itrek, Technocratic Order, Scorpion Riders, D5G, The Ronins, The uTs and Synchz USA and thinking wow.... now this IS NEOCRON!
Ahhhh; memory lane... again :)
God Neocron sounded so good back when it was in its prime, wish I didn't miss it. :(
William Antrim
10-10-11, 23:40
Ahhhh; memory lane... again :)
Aye.
you need to go to Garriotts diner my lad. Check out some threads in there. You will know which one to look at.
Ashley003 - it was the best thing ever. It was the most fun I ever had in a pc game. I have really never had such a good time playing games than what nc1 gave me. Some of my best friends play it now and I didnt know them when i started.
I get all nostalgic about once a month and log in but it won't ever be the same. I stick around these days cos i hope, like one or two other old timers; that nc3 will be what nc1 was to those of us who experienced it.
I don't resent the people who never played it like some "grizzled vets" do in other games I have played. I don't look down on those people who didn't play Burning Crusade or only joined after Wrath of the Lich King.
I feel bad for the guys who found this addiction so late into nc2 or 2.2 or whenever else they started down the dark road of burdening their hard drives with zoneline bugs and fatal errors.
I feel bad for them because they didn't get a proper chance to experience this game in its heyday. You can call me a fanboi, you can call me a rose-tinted glasses person. I couldn't care a toss.
We put up with imbalances in our classes, we lived through Monkocron and we fought back with our guns. We fought with hybrids 2v1 in Pepper Park and by God we managed to survive with the psychopaths who thought Kamikaze chips were a good idea. We also survived Johnny 5's, the Tank nerf, the Hybrid nerf and a myriad of other bugs.
We were Lowtech PE's when the crossbow came out and by God we slaughtered the "elite" crossbow PE's by the numbers.
We put up with the lip bug when everyone else wore power armour and we bled alongside the best of them. We were Neocron, its beating heart and its putrid soul.
We bitched and whined with the best of them when we got beat and we tried to come up with sensible suggestions when we had calmed down. We lived this game for the best part of 5 years and then after too much let down we had to quit. We retired. I was the last one to leave in my clan and I had to turn the light off in the clan apartment for the last time.
It was not just a game. It was a career. That's why we played.
That's why I am still here.
I want my clan, I want my family back.
Aye.
you need to go to Garriotts diner my lad. Check out some threads in there. You will know which one to look at.
Ashley003 - it was the best thing ever. It was the most fun I ever had in a pc game. I have really never had such a good time playing games than what nc1 gave me. Some of my best friends play it now and I didnt know them when i started.
I get all nostalgic about once a month and log in but it won't ever be the same. I stick around these days cos i hope, like one or two other old timers; that nc3 will be what nc1 was to those of us who experienced it.
I don't resent the people who never played it like some "grizzled vets" do in other games I have played. I don't look down on those people who didn't play Burning Crusade or only joined after Wrath of the Lich King.
I feel bad for the guys who found this addiction so late into nc2 or 2.2 or whenever else they started down the dark road of burdening their hard drives with zoneline bugs and fatal errors.
I feel bad for them because they didn't get a proper chance to experience this game in its heyday. You can call me a fanboi, you can call me a rose-tinted glasses person. I couldn't care a toss.
We put up with imbalances in our classes, we lived through Monkocron and we fought back with our guns. We fought with hybrids 2v1 in Pepper Park and by God we managed to survive with the psychopaths who thought Kamikaze chips were a good idea. We also survived Johnny 5's, the Tank nerf, the Hybrid nerf and a myriad of other bugs.
We were Lowtech PE's when the crossbow came out and by God we slaughtered the "elite" crossbow PE's by the numbers.
We put up with the lip bug when everyone else wore power armour and we bled alongside the best of them. We were Neocron, its beating heart and its putrid soul.
We bitched and whined with the best of them when we got beat and we tried to come up with sensible suggestions when we had calmed down. We lived this game for the best part of 5 years and then after too much let down we had to quit. We retired. I was the last one to leave in my clan and I had to turn the light off in the clan apartment for the last time.
It was not just a game. It was a career. That's why we played.
That's why I am still here.
I want my clan, I want my family back.
Wow it sounds like it used to be so good, I enjoy Neocron alot even today and if it's just a shadow of its former self I would have loved to play it back in the day! xD
Doc Holliday
11-10-11, 04:35
Aye.
you need to go to Garriotts diner my lad. Check out some threads in there. You will know which one to look at.
Ashley003 - it was the best thing ever. It was the most fun I ever had in a pc game. I have really never had such a good time playing games than what nc1 gave me. Some of my best friends play it now and I didnt know them when i started.
I get all nostalgic about once a month and log in but it won't ever be the same. I stick around these days cos i hope, like one or two other old timers; that nc3 will be what nc1 was to those of us who experienced it.
I don't resent the people who never played it like some "grizzled vets" do in other games I have played. I don't look down on those people who didn't play Burning Crusade or only joined after Wrath of the Lich King.
I feel bad for the guys who found this addiction so late into nc2 or 2.2 or whenever else they started down the dark road of burdening their hard drives with zoneline bugs and fatal errors.
I feel bad for them because they didn't get a proper chance to experience this game in its heyday. You can call me a fanboi, you can call me a rose-tinted glasses person. I couldn't care a toss.
We put up with imbalances in our classes, we lived through Monkocron and we fought back with our guns. We fought with hybrids 2v1 in Pepper Park and by God we managed to survive with the psychopaths who thought Kamikaze chips were a good idea. We also survived Johnny 5's, the Tank nerf, the Hybrid nerf and a myriad of other bugs.
We were Lowtech PE's when the crossbow came out and by God we slaughtered the "elite" crossbow PE's by the numbers.
We put up with the lip bug when everyone else wore power armour and we bled alongside the best of them. We were Neocron, its beating heart and its putrid soul.
We bitched and whined with the best of them when we got beat and we tried to come up with sensible suggestions when we had calmed down. We lived this game for the best part of 5 years and then after too much let down we had to quit. We retired. I was the last one to leave in my clan and I had to turn the light off in the clan apartment for the last time.
It was not just a game. It was a career. That's why we played.
That's why I am still here.
I want my clan, I want my family back.
thats about 4 beers down before fingers hit keyboard. im gonna be suprised if im wrong. ;) i can tell by the way you write bro ;)
the good old days. how much we could recreate i dont know but im sure we could. optimism.
brammers i like your idea. smashing up tech haven has always been fun :)
William Antrim
11-10-11, 18:40
Two and a half.
daughterolilith
27-01-12, 18:59
They are working on Neocron 3 as soon as they can, they just need money and more people power!
http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=144921
Talk to friendly venture capitalists, invade the financial forums, occupy london City and wall street lol! :)
http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/6809/prokl.jpg
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