View Full Version : Fusion Rifle and Fusion Cannon
The Fusion Cannon is an AoE weapon and takes fusion ammo. The Fusion Rifle is not an AoE weapon and takes fusion ammo. Whats up with that? Why cant spies have an AoE Fusion Weapon?
The Fusion Cannon is an AoE weapon and takes fusion ammo. The Fusion Rifle is not an AoE weapon and takes fusion ammo. Whats up with that? Why cant spies have an AoE Fusion Weapon?
If u think about AOE Guns are normaly cannons of some sort so could u see a spy carrying around a DoomBeamer with all the ammo needed for lvling as well u would be over loaded ALOT! AOE are made for Tanks/Monks/Droners
Napper, his request isn't so far fetched. Just look at the executioner, there's no reason that those projectiles couldn't be set to explode. They could at least give us a higher tl rocket pistol; tl64 just isn't enough.
Also, there's no reason why a spy can't carry around enough ammo for an aoe weapon, especially if they recycle.
TL;DR: If drones can hold 100 über rockets, then a spy can carry around the ammo for an aoe weapon.
Hell-demon
06-09-08, 19:01
Spies have enough!
They got nanites, fancy rifles, cloaking and our fine wimminz!
Please, aoe isn't going to help them in pvp, and it'll just make it more fair for them in pve.
Droning should not be the only option.
Hell-demon
06-09-08, 19:31
They have sniper rifles to help in PVE.
And what about the wimminz?
Sniper rifles suck for xp.
Hell-demon
06-09-08, 19:57
So drone and switch. Every fooker is doing it.
God damn spies took our dubs!
http://www.humorscore.com/uploads/thumbs/84a890d1237a3d36b102a8885086ccfb_TheyTookOurJobs.flv.large.jpg
Hell-demon
06-09-08, 20:54
Derailed!
My work here is done....
*runs*
Please, aoe isn't going to help them in pvp, and it'll just make it more fair for them in pve.
Droning should not be the only option.
AoE isn't all that viable in PvP combat anyways. AoE would greatly help Spies who are spec'd for Rifles.
Tanks = Fusion Cannons, Rocket Launchers, Doom Beamer
Pistols = Rocket Launchers unsure if fusion pistols are AoE or not
PPUs = Barrels / Sanctums
APUs = Barrels
Drones = Rocket and Fusion to my knowledge
I don't see why spies should have to spec for droning just for purposes of leveling, then LoM to go for Rifles. IMO that is just using game mechanics just to level faster. Really doesn't seem fair for those who would rather be a rifle user, and therefor starts using rifles from the start.
I'm not asking for it to be changed, but rather a viable explination as to why it is done this way. Cannons use fusion ammo, rifles also use fusion ammo, but yet one is AoE and the other isn't. That is where my question lies.
AoE isn't all that viable in PvP combat anyways.
Have u ever had a fight with R2K they Barrel/AOE the fuck out of the UG all the time and now how is that not Viable????
Have u ever had a fight with R2K they Barrel/AOE the fuck out of the UG all the time and now how is that not Viable????
So do we. But then again....AOE FTW
The point is that AOE is useful in only specific situations, and only if you're good and organized enough to do it correctly. Giving spys and pe's some inevitably underpowered aoe weapons is hardly going to tip the balance in their favor.
Anna Finster
07-09-08, 13:46
tbh, I consider the idea of giving spies/pes AoE as a bad one
remember guys... we have CLASSES in neocron, you're not meant to be able to use everything with your character! you're making a decision when creating the char. stick to it! or create a new char that is able to use AoE!
neocron has been (as far as i know) the game in which you - as a player - have to make by far the most decicions concering character development, professions, skills, resists etc.
since neocron 1 this great concept has slowly, but constantly, been weakened. what a fail imho ;( LOM pills have been introduced. spells and weapons with new abilities have been added to balance the itempool inbetween character classes. far more changes than i could recap here... in the early days, decisions were persistant. if your con setup sucked, well, there was no way to undo that... instead of playing the char "as is" or creating a new one.
but why? why destroy this great concept of a "soft" class system? a system where you already have so many abilities and possibities. a system, where that huge tank could run around with the tiny liberator instead of his CS. a system, in which a P-E could go h-c and blast his enemies with gatling fire. a system, where a ppu could skill melee and kill his damageboosted enemies with a TL17 sword. but noooo, we want AoE for spies...
well, because the community cried for "balance"... by now, nearly every class is able to do everything by itself. buff, shield, heal, use (nearly) any weapon... wtf...!
what would you say if I wanted a cloaking device for my ppu...
tbh, I consider the idea of giving spies/pes AoE as a bad one
remember guys... we have CLASSES in neocron, you're not meant to be able to use everything with your character! you're making a decision when creating the char. stick to it! or create a new char that is able to use AoE!
neocron has been (as far as i know) the game in which you - as a player - have to make by far the most decicions concering character development, professions, skills, resists etc.
since neocron 1 this great concept has slowly, but constantly, been weakened. what a fail imho ;( LOM pills have been introduced. spells and weapons with new abilities have been added to balance the itempool inbetween character classes. far more changes than i could recap here... in the early days, decisions were persistant. if your con setup sucked, well, there was no way to undo that... instead of playing the char "as is" or creating a new one.
but why? why destroy this great concept of a "soft" class system? a system where you already have so many abilities and possibities. a system, where that huge tank could run around with the tiny liberator instead of his CS. a system, in which a P-E could go h-c and blast his enemies with gatling fire. a system, where a ppu could skill melee and kill his damageboosted enemies with a TL17 sword. but noooo, we want AoE for spies...
well, because the community cried for "balance"... by now, nearly every class is able to do everything by itself. buff, shield, heal, use (nearly) any weapon... wtf...!
what would you say if I wanted a cloaking device for my ppu...
Whoa! Someone displaying some common sense on this forum, I think that makes it 4 this year. 8|
I agree completely, I've always considered a rifles bonus to be distance and high accuracy, so I see no reason to give them AoE as well.
Remember, AoE is designed with the drawback of occasionally harming yourself if you're not careful. Rifles would never have to worry about that because of the distance.
Remember, AoE is designed with the drawback of occasionally harming yourself if you're not careful. Rifles would never have to worry about that because of the distance.
Heh. I dont know how many times I've ended up killing myself with the Mal.
awkward silence
07-09-08, 22:56
tbh, I consider the idea of giving spies/pes AoE as a bad one
remember guys... we have CLASSES in neocron, you're not meant to be able to use everything with your character! you're making a decision when creating the char. stick to it! or create a new char that is able to use AoE!
neocron has been (as far as i know) the game in which you - as a player - have to make by far the most decicions concering character development, professions, skills, resists etc.
since neocron 1 this great concept has slowly, but constantly, been weakened. what a fail imho ;( LOM pills have been introduced. spells and weapons with new abilities have been added to balance the itempool inbetween character classes. far more changes than i could recap here... in the early days, decisions were persistant. if your con setup sucked, well, there was no way to undo that... instead of playing the char "as is" or creating a new one.
but why? why destroy this great concept of a "soft" class system? a system where you already have so many abilities and possibities. a system, where that huge tank could run around with the tiny liberator instead of his CS. a system, in which a P-E could go h-c and blast his enemies with gatling fire. a system, where a ppu could skill melee and kill his damageboosted enemies with a TL17 sword. but noooo, we want AoE for spies...
well, because the community cried for "balance"... by now, nearly every class is able to do everything by itself. buff, shield, heal, use (nearly) any weapon... wtf...!
what would you say if I wanted a cloaking device for my ppu...
Someone said you make sense... i have to not agree.
However while i think you may have a point (alltough poorly expressed)... i think you put too many things in the same basket and write it off.
For instance:
"...where a ppu could skill melee and kill his damageboosted enemies with a TL17 sword. but noooo, we want AoE for spies..."
Do those too things really have anything to do with each other?
In my opinion diversity is good... I would like HC PE's to be viable... as well as libby tanks! Just because someone wants AOE for spies you cant blame him for SI:less lom pills or ppus being able to kill other peeps.
Personally i think AOE should be removed from all but tanks with exceptions. Droners are too powerfull overflooding the market with stuff they can get so easily (being able to AOE and be safe from all damage to them or their drones). While I would like monk damage to be singular (focused... concentrated) but powerfull ans so obviously with no barrels.
Fusion rifles as AOE wouldn't be a bad idea... as long as the AOE would not be large but to a very small area compared to cannons. I would also reduce the single shot weapons from tanks to a few only.
Anna Finster
08-09-08, 02:26
i agree with you, awk.
maybe i put too many things together, but i just wanted to point out that the game already provides a great variety of abilities for every char and class. why make the spy even more viable than it already is atm? instead lets give apu monks a reason to "be" again.
---
btw, sorry for my 'bad expression'. i'm from germany and chances to write or speak in english are unfortunately very rare. although i read a lot of english grammar, trying to express yourself is still quite a difference. especially since i had my last english lessons back in 2001 @ highschool ;)
tbh, I consider the idea of giving spies/pes AoE as a bad one
remember guys... we have CLASSES in neocron, you're not meant to be able to use everything with your character! you're making a decision when creating the char. stick to it! or create a new char that is able to use AoE!
neocron has been (as far as i know) the game in which you - as a player - have to make by far the most decicions concering character development, professions, skills, resists etc.
since neocron 1 this great concept has slowly, but constantly, been weakened. what a fail imho ;( LOM pills have been introduced. spells and weapons with new abilities have been added to balance the itempool inbetween character classes. far more changes than i could recap here... in the early days, decisions were persistant. if your con setup sucked, well, there was no way to undo that... instead of playing the char "as is" or creating a new one.
but why? why destroy this great concept of a "soft" class system? a system where you already have so many abilities and possibities. a system, where that huge tank could run around with the tiny liberator instead of his CS. a system, in which a P-E could go h-c and blast his enemies with gatling fire. a system, where a ppu could skill melee and kill his damageboosted enemies with a TL17 sword. but noooo, we want AoE for spies...
well, because the community cried for "balance"... by now, nearly every class is able to do everything by itself. buff, shield, heal, use (nearly) any weapon... wtf...!
what would you say if I wanted a cloaking device for my ppu...
Excellent post Anna.
I remember using both a Liberator and Pain Easer on my first PE. Good times :D
Seriously though - I 100% share your view on over-"balancing" of the game. In it's current state, it forces one or two viable setups per class, meaning everyone is a clone of one another.
The massive variation which allowed for almost a completely free choice was what made Neocron special for me.
btw, sorry for my 'bad expression'. i'm from germany and chances to write or speak in english are unfortunately very rare. although i read a lot of english grammar, trying to express yourself is still quite a difference. especially since i had my last english lessons back in 2001 @ highschool ;)
Your English is perfect... and I do mean perfect. o_O
(Sorry for double post - lost my edit option!)
tbh, I consider the idea of giving spies/pes AoE as a bad one
remember guys... we have CLASSES in neocron, you're not meant to be able to use everything with your character! you're making a decision when creating the char. stick to it! or create a new char that is able to use AoE!
neocron has been (as far as i know) the game in which you - as a player - have to make by far the most decicions concering character development, professions, skills, resists etc.
since neocron 1 this great concept has slowly, but constantly, been weakened. what a fail imho ;( LOM pills have been introduced. spells and weapons with new abilities have been added to balance the itempool inbetween character classes. far more changes than i could recap here... in the early days, decisions were persistant. if your con setup sucked, well, there was no way to undo that... instead of playing the char "as is" or creating a new one.
but why? why destroy this great concept of a "soft" class system? a system where you already have so many abilities and possibities. a system, where that huge tank could run around with the tiny liberator instead of his CS. a system, in which a P-E could go h-c and blast his enemies with gatling fire. a system, where a ppu could skill melee and kill his damageboosted enemies with a TL17 sword. but noooo, we want AoE for spies...
well, because the community cried for "balance"... by now, nearly every class is able to do everything by itself. buff, shield, heal, use (nearly) any weapon... wtf...!
what would you say if I wanted a cloaking device for my ppu...
Very good post!
Diversity has vanished from Neocron over the time. I WANT IT BACK.
Diversity has vanished from Neocron over the time. I WANT IT BACK.
/Signed.
/Signed.
We have a 14-pages thread to this topic in the german Community-Talk-Forum.
No Developer answered to our suggestions. Thats just said. The game could be so much better with little adjustments.
I can agree with all of your points, but unfortunately, asking for these things back is unrealistic. Neocron has taken a turn for making all characters equal, and that's not about to change after all the work that was put into it.
With the past ideas of the game, as you said, it wouldn't make sense to have aoe pistols and rifles
However, with the way things are now, it doesn't make sense for them to not have it, since tanks and monks have it, which give them an unfair advantage in leveling and pve in general.
Anna Finster
09-09-08, 00:21
flib:
spies do have the option, too.
arguing that each char is by now meant to be a clone of one another, just go and lom droning.
/just kidding... :F
€dit: thanks L0ki :)
anna is right spys can lomm on droning - tanks/monks can not high lev droning
thats why they got there AE
if Loms would take Much more Exp / more SI etc that would be an other story :cool:
did not read,
spies dont aoe because they have the 'intelligence and dexterity' to use high precision long distance equipment whereas tanks are 'strong and dumb' thus use aoe to get their way bish bash bosh i win kthnxbye :D
awkward silence
12-09-08, 19:38
Funny thing....
I agree with the previous poster regarding this matter.
I do not however, like the fact that he came to a conclusion without reading other peoples opinions.
We all get lucky i suppose... o_O
I've said this before, distance does not give more experience, which means that it does not help with the balance. Also, tanks get a fair amount of distance too, with laser cannons at least.
I do not believe that spies and pe's should have to use drones to get an experience-rate anywhere close to that of monks and tanks.
awkward silence
13-09-08, 01:34
Thats true!
Tank range is pretty much all you need with the shitty visible range that we have.
However you can xp well enough with non droner PE's and non droner spies. Problems arise in places like mc5 and woc caves but should every class be able to do everything?
Yes tanks have it all and yes removing aoe drones would solve a dozen exploits. Still, i dont believe non D spies and Pe's should have even near equal aoe to tanks for instance.
Dont use spies range to argue that they dont deserve aoe, it doesnt give em much advantage over a tank and its not logical anyways.
However i must ask... How the fuck do all those rockets fit in that little drone, especially when the drones are as light as they are :confused: ?
You shouldn't directly compare like for like with Spy's and Tanks. They're different and so they should be. Spy's and PE's have other skills not available to Tanks or Monks. Should we all have the exact same abilities to supposedly "balance"? No Fucking way! What the fuck sort of game would it become?
This is a really stupid and pointless thread that I feel I've wasted way to much time on already. A question was asked and it's been answered, just because some people don't like the answer doesn't make it wrong.
This thread has run it's course, somebody close it already.
neocron has been (as far as i know) the game in which you - as a player - have to make by far the most decicions concering character development, professions, skills, resists etc.
since neocron 1 this great concept has slowly, but constantly, been weakened. what a fail imho ;( LOM pills have been introduced. spells and weapons with new abilities have been added to balance the itempool inbetween character classes. far more changes than i could recap here... in the early days, decisions were persistant. if your con setup sucked, well, there was no way to undo that... instead of playing the char "as is" or creating a new one.
So you obviously dont remember neocron 1 before so called specialization patch (end of open beta or start of retail) ... no 179% dmg bullshit .. if for eg gun had STR 35 H-C 50 everyone who meet reqs was able use it with same effect (same dmg etc). no matter you specced HC 50 or 150. That was fun and that changed nothing to balance bcuz spies wasnt able spec anything about STR 50 (if i recall good @ that times spies got max STR 45 w/o imps+drugs). You whine KK introduced LOM pills and many more weapons ... but they needed to do this becuz instantly ppl wasnt able to use many items. Imagine how funny was game if you didnt need to overspec reqs on every gun by 200%, how much more skills were you able to use. KK wanted to "kill the fly" -> Monk and Tradeskillers hybrids but they used nuke instead a newspapper and that in my opinion was first step to lower fun/populations. There were many other solutions for hybrids. Now game is too complicated and with pops like now you cant be self suficient w/o 2 accounts (and you need to be self sufficient bcuz pops are joke).
Btw i dont have problem with making Monk and Tradeskiller hybrids inefective or making resist like they are now.
PS. Mayby it was all different and im not remember it corectly lol it was 6 years ago O_o
I do agree with a lot of what you say but I very much don't believe giving AoE to classes that shouldn't have it will fix those things. It's altogether a different argument anyway and one I'm not about to get sucked into either.
pe's should have to use drones to get an experience-rate
Pes levle dex with Hc Setup not that much like with rifles/pistols or drones but they do an they can get on good ae cannons ( should be better but they can )
whatever. the hohle disscusion depends on get fast Exp with Ae to become fast woc. thats what is all about. no one talks about the useless of the Antivhc Rocket lauchers these days or the anti airs stuff ( of course because of the useless of Vhc at mom )
to be honest Woc has killed to much setups specially for Pe an spy classes
the diffrence between an Ak47 and an Pain easer for example is so big that of course everyone will prefer the woc rifle and Woc to get more damge
the Non rare wepons are mostly useless now for Pvp and only a few rare realy works these days
for an Pe as an result that means He NEED woc to get along with the tanks ans spys no Hc Pes running arround at ops / No Mc Pes also no Psi Pes no driver/gunner etc etc
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