View Full Version : [OT] Computer Help
Hey guys. I'm looking to get a spanking new computer some point in the coming weeks. Now I'm not a complete noob when it comes to this but I am well aware that there are plenty of people here who know a hell of a lot more than I do so it seems wise to ask for help.
I'm looking for something that I can buy and not have to touch for a while. I'm not one of those who goes for all the latest games but it would be nice to have the choice to buy a new game with a high spec if I wanted to (something that I cannot currently do). I also want to have something that I can continue to upgrade for a number years (adding Ram/ extra or better GFX card) with minimal cost to myself. Would like to have a sound card and network card in there somewhere too, though not essential. Would at least like the option to have these things however.
Seems like a big ask I know and considering that I'm not entirely sure what my budget will be makes an even bigger task. Something as close to this as possible whilst staying under say....£800 (ABSOLUTE maximum, preferably less than that).
Oh, and just so you know, I only need the tower and components and OS. Don't need Monitor, Keyboard, Mouse or Speakers.
Thanks in advance,
Matan
P.S. Have had a wee look around myself. How does this (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FS-048-OK&groupid=43&catid=1081&subcat=&name=%22Ultima%20OC%208800GT%22%20Intel%20Core%202%20Quad%20Q6600%202.40GHz%20@%20QX6950+%203.30GHz+ %20Quad%20Core%20SILENT%20DDR2%20System) fair up?
It depends, you could go with a amd Phenom x2 chip (depending on which one you get, its considerable cheaper then cor 2 duo), you can pick up fairly box standard motherboards for 60 quid, I would got with a 8800 GT NVIDIA card.. or you could fork out a little more on the new 10 series to future proof.
4 gigs of ddr2 ram would be great, yyou can pick up faily good sets for 170 quid.
Never budget on powersupply because it could cost you alot more then 50 quid if it decides to short your pc.
Cases are fairly cheap, ventrilio if you like :D
... why ddr2 ??
ddr3 are way faster.
the 8800s are great video cards im told, but i just heard a guy at work talk about a new graphics card thats either just come out or will very very soon, its a doubled graphics card, which means that it would perform better than if you ran sli or crossfire mode on 2 graphicscards, in just 1 graphics card.
which means that if you pop 2 of those bad boys in a sli or crossfire, you would technically have 4 graphics processors. but i think its a bit in the pricy end, you know how it is with SOTA stuff.
as for cpus, everyone is biased in some way, so im not even gonna comment on that, just be sure you dont shoot your own foot by buying something with too low a bus.
try to even things out a bit, so cpu and ram run at pretty similar to the motherboard, because it really only takes 1 slow component to fuck it all up.
and be very aware what kind of harddrive you decide to run your OS on.
i havent had the luxury of testing a solid state drive, but if they are as fast as i hear, the raptors will go extinct soon :p but again, pricy as hell. and besides raptor released the velociraptor not long ago, so one of those could prolly kick it pretty decently.
... just noticed you have a budget of 800 pounds, so most of the things i mentioned you can ignore...
it's a rare time a new computer for me is cheaper than 1700 pounds.
... why ddr2 ??
ddr3 are way faster.
DDR3 sounds like nerd hype to me, it seems only AMD are weilding this "uber technology" while intel are "living in the past".
I'm waiting for DDR4, when it will be mainstream for both parties.
DDR3 sounds like nerd hype to me, it seems only AMD are weilding this "uber technology" while intel are "living in the past".
I'm waiting for DDR4, when it will be mainstream for both parties.
Intel are always living in the past.
<3 AMD
Check out this out...
Mother Board (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3871479&CatId=2547)
CPU (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3740794&CatId=3496)
4 of these Video Cards (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3747342&CatId=3670)
4 sticks of RAM (8 gigs) (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3655524&CatId=3413) +Win Vista x64 Premium edition
Apply your RAID technology with your favorite hard drives and whal-lah. This is my computer, hehe...
i just heard a guy at work talk about a new graphics card thats either just come out or will very very soon, its a doubled graphics card, which means that it would perform better than if you ran sli or crossfire mode on 2 graphicscards, in just 1 graphics card.
This has been out for a while now...
Check this (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3770901&CatId=3669) out. Imagine x4 of these cards in the motherboard I linked in my last reply, heh. (It wouldnt fit in the case with x4 of these cards because they are so large.)
This has been out for a while now...
Check this (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3770901&CatId=3669) out. Imagine x4 of these cards in the motherboard I linked in my last reply, heh. (It wouldnt fit in the case with x4 of these cards because they are so large.)
we're a bit behind when it comes to getting things the same time as everyone else in Denmark ;) so most likely why you've had it a while :)
we're a bit behind when it comes to getting things the same time as everyone else in Denmark ;) so most likely why you've had it a while :)
You all cant order things internationaly? I thought you could, heh, my bad. I guess shipping only comes into the US and not out. ;)
Thanks for your help Grim but I'm not sure if you just didn't see my budget or weren't sure on exchange rates but even if I go for just one of those gfx cards and only 4 GB RAM, once I've added a case, PSU, HD, DVD-RW and OS I'm looking at nearly £1100, bit above what I can afford :p
Thanks to everyone else for your help. Hope I get some more suggestions :)
You all cant order things internationaly? I thought you could, heh, my bad. I guess shipping only comes into the US and not out. ;)
We can, but then we have to pay outrageous shipping prices, and then import taxes come on top of that, so it ends up being even more expensive than SOTA stuff, on release day.
Hell-demon
09-06-08, 11:19
I strongly recommend you buy a computer from Dell online.
I got a topnotch laptop computer with 2.1 ghz duel core processor, 2 gig ram, 256mb latest (or close to) nvidia graphics card, built in webcam, 230gb hardrive and it's 17 inch screen.
Including VAT and shipping it cost me £475.
I have found a desktop from Dell that outspecs my lapp and costs less!
The tip I find is to buy from the business part not the home. Business are cheaper and ahve higehr specs to help small business.
Go for the vostro range.
Edit:Here weo go (http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/4x_vostro_200st?c=uk&cs=ukbsdt1&l=en&s=bsd)
You can customise them to your liking.
landofcake
09-06-08, 11:30
I build alot of machines, so here's my advice ...
CPU:
There isn't any reason to buy an AMD CPU right now unless you've already got a motherboard that supports a Phenom. They perform a fair bit worse than the Intel equivalent and don't cost much less. Right now i'd stick to Intel and pick up the best Core 2 Quad you can afford (preferably 45nm, although the 65nm Q6600 is still a good bet and will overclock nicely, if you're into that).
Memory:
No real reason not to buy 4Gb of DDR-2 now, as it's outrageously cheap. There's also no real reason to go for DDR-3, unless you're really into future proofing at a huge cost to yourself. DDR-3 is still very expensive, so it'd be best to stick to DDR-2 right now, and when DDR-3 is the required type of memory, prices should have dropped. As for brands, i personally prefer Crucial or GEIL and steer clear of Corsair (but see below), but most of the big name brands will be fine.
Graphics Cards:
This really depends on your budget ... We're about to see a new range of cards from both nVidia and ATI (should be this month sometime), but they're likely to be quite expensive as they're new tech ... not to mention that the nVidia cards look like they might be huge power sucking beasts ... I'd reccomend an 880 GT 512Mb if you're on a budget ... if you can afford more the HD 3870 X2 is a good bet right now, it's a good toss up between budget and power, and a much cheaper and more elegant solution than nVidia's 9800 GX2 for dual GPU fun.
nVidia has a big problem at the moment in having a huge amount of SKU's, most of which barely have any difference between them ... however, good bets for graphics cards are:
nVidia: 8800 GT 512Mb, 8800 GTS 512Mb, 8800 GTX (if you can pick one up cheap), Other cards like the 9600 GT and the 9800 GTX are quite frankly a waste of time, they're pretty much pointless SKU's that hardly improve on the performance of the equivalent 8 series cards, for more money. The 9800 GX2 is only worth it if you're an nutcase with too much cash to burn.
ATI: 3870 X2 ... a good card for a good price, unfortunately it's the only card ATI really have that's worth buying right now, although i imagine that'll change this month.
Motherboards:
I can only comment on Intel boards here, as i don't know alot about the current state of AMD boards ...
Right now there's not a real compelling reason to spend the extra cash on an nVidia based motherboard, as the don't offer much improvement over the Intel chipset based ones for anyone but the most extreme overclocker.
I reccomend going for a board based on the latest Intel chipsets (P45, P43, X48 if you're into the extreme end), as you'll get great performance and great overclocking potential (in general, this also depends on the quality of the board in general). You can also pick up a cheaper P35 based motherboard, which is still very good, and will support 1333 (and probably even 1600) FSB processors (45nm).
I'd also reccomend sticking to a few of the better motherboard manufacturers, i personally use a Gigabyte board, although i'd also go with Asus or Abit.
Cases:
This is all really down to personal preference, but i am a big fan of Antec or Lian-Li cases. They cost a bit more money but they're very well built, great for cooling and Antec cases normally come with a good power supply ...
Power Supply:
This is quite important. It's very easy to go for a cheap power supply and save money, but you really need to spend a good amount on a solid, quiet, efficient and reliable PSU.
I high reccomend Antec, as they are very very quiet, highly efficient and reasonably priced. You can also go with Tagan, Seasonic, Enermax or Corsair. I'd personally steer clear of anything from OCZ (perform well but can be quite loud). Lots of people buy Hiper power supplies because they're cheap and perform well, but i haven't had any experience with them.
Don't be fooled by people saying you need a huge PSU either, I run an overclocked 65nm Quad Core with an 8800 GTX on a 550W Antec. 500W or more should be fine in your case.
Disk Drives:
Optical drives are pretty easy, in general any DVD Writer you buy in this day and age with function fine, but i would personally recommend either an NEC or Pioneer.
As for Hard Disks, if you've got the cash, go for a small Western Digital VelociRaptor to store games/OS files on. It's incredibly quick, and a great disk. If not, just go for perhaps a 750Gb drive from one of the main manufacturers (Samsung, Maxtor, Western Digital etc.)
I think that's probably it, although there are two rules of thumb you always need to stick to:
Always read reviews for products you intend to buy, don't just blindly leap into purchasing them. If there's no review for it, it's probably not worth buying.
You get what you pay for.
Don't always follow these to the letter, because anyone who regularly builds machines will have horror stories about one or two particular brands (mine is Corsair memory), but it doesn't mean the brands themselves are awful. Just remember that the one guy who gets a broken part will scream much louder than the hundreds who are satisfied customers ...
Hope this helps.
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/ is useful, especially for their "best graphics cards at £X" articles and their overall charts.
DDR3 is a horrendous waste of money at the moment. Really expensive for some slight advantages and some minor disadvantages.
SLi or Crossfire graphics card setups are really not worth the hastle. My housemate has two SLIed overclocked 8800GTSes, and the amount of faff they entail (restarting using only one monitor to be in SLI mode, tweaking millions of settings to actually get a performance boost) makes me think that unless you musthave crysis at a huge res at 60 FPS, don't bother.
If your main use is gaming and simple desktop applications, dual core currently provides more bang for your money than quad. Quad core on the other hand is presumably more futureproof, and a good bet if you go for video editing or a few other minor, processor heavy applications.
If you have the cash to spare, you'll really, really appreciate adding in a velociraptor (http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=53K4&SearchType=1&SearchTerms=velociraptor&PageMode=3&SearchKey=All&SearchMode=All&NavigationKey=0). It is pricey however, and some of the better WD Caviar and Samsung Spinpoint drives are now as fast as the old raptors. (http://www.storagereview.com/WD3000BLFS.sr)
Will come up with a possible build in a moment, from Ebuyer.
How about this:
http://www.personal.leeds.ac.uk/~sms4al/matan%20computer.GIF
Then get one of these cases (http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=4JV3&SearchType=1&SearchTerms=P182&PageMode=3&SearchKey=All&SearchMode=All&NavigationKey=0). It's an awesome case for a pricey but not horrifc amount of money, and should be the home for any new builds you make as well. You'll also need some kind of CPU cooling - I can't be bothered to research that right now. You could go for one cheaper if you like. (Total should be about £700. There are ways to reduce this).
Have an eye towards future HDD upgrades (I didn't give you a massive amount of storage) and graphics cards. Consider a CPU upgrade at the moment that intel discontinues the socket 775 too.
Oh also, this monitor (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/125099) is absolutley awesome if you could afford it, and whatever monitor you have would do fine as a secondary I am sure.
landofcake
09-06-08, 13:10
Perfect.
I think everyone has said everything else.
I've got an Antec case, and I did have a Antec 550W PSU, until one of the fans failed recently - I replaced it with this Enermax PSU (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-035-EN&groupid=701&catid=123&subcat=&name=Enermax%20Pro%2082+%20525W%20EPR525AWT%20ATX2.3%20Silent%20PSU).
One thing I do like about the case and the Antec or Enermax PSU was that it was very quiet - there is nothing worse than a noisy PC.
Also for CPU cooling, have a look at one of these coolers (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HS-015-ZA&groupid=701&catid=57&subcat=821&name=Zalman%20CNPS9500A-LED%20CPU%20Cooler%20(Socket%20478/754/939/940/LGA775)) again, very quiet with the fan running at full speed and I do have one cooling my dual core CPU.
My housemate who runs the Q6600 and has a P182 Case (just a warning, it is a HUGE case, not quite full tower tall but seriously wide) uses some kind of big aluminium finned cooling stack, with a couple of slow-spinning 120mm fans strapped to it. Can't remember what it is called mind, but it runs very quiet and cool. I just have a retail cooler on mine - was cheaper and does an admirable job of keeping my significantly overclocked E6400 stable. Not the quitest thing mind, and seems the OEM processors are cheaper at the moment.
pfft, silent ...
real computers sound like jetfighters during takeoff :)
CM that build on ebuyer was perfect exept for the last POS that was at the end of the list. thankfully im selectivly blind and dint quite see what it was ;)
Stick with XP pro, is my advice, until WINDOWS 7 comes out (in 2009)..
Thanks to everyone that has helped so far particularly CMaster and Cakey boy. With a bit of help from Delphi I've thrown some things together: (after looking it's pretty much the same as Cmaster's one :p)
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t236/lyras_dad/Spec-4.jpg
Comments/criticisms?
1 matan, the case is micro ATX... make sure the motherboard is also MATX, otherwise it won't fit!
lmao, completely missed that. Hmmm...just realised that wasn't the one I was after....
dont know if its too late, but be careful of technical specs on power use.
if you can get to see the advanced technical specifications on the motherboard an the graphics card, then look good at them and compare them to the power supply youve chosen.
I bought an 800 w power supply with plenty of amperes on all the various voltage lines, but apparently, as soon as i popped in my hd graphics card, because mine was an upgraded version it had a different power requirement, which meant that it had to be an 820 w or higher power supply.
so i looked over a lot of different ones, before i came to the conclusion that if you buy unknown brand power supplies, or known power supplies that are just "boosted" to perform better than they initially were designed to, then one of following will happen:
1: it will burn out fast and then you have to buy a new one, and you really dont wanna waste time or money on that.
2: it wont have enough amperes to carry the requirements on all the various voltages
3: it wont have the voltage setting that one or more of your components need (especially the 5vSB +- one, it's sometimes hard to find the correct amps on that), and for the love of pete, be sure to look at the continous ones, and not the peak values, because peak is pressure and pressure is death, example risk factor number 1 in this list.
4: be sure it has enough power connectors, 6 and 8 pin 12v connectors for graphics card and supplementary motherboard power, this is especially important for newer graphics cards and quad core motherboards.
in the end i paid extra for an antec quadro 1000 w power supply, i believe it was, and im very satisfied with that. and its a modular one, so its all good :D lots of extra cables so you can get to use those you really need.
hope it's not too late, or you had already checked / were lucky enough to get one that performs to your needs.
Not too late at all. This is all getting an idea of what I can afford and getting some opinions so that when it comes to actually buying the stuff, I'm better informed. Won't have the money for couple of weeks yet. I will check that before I do anything final.
Anything else guys and gals?
Oh yeah, and as regards to a case I have a wee problem. 1) I know least about cases than any other computer components and 2) being that this PC won't just be for me my I need to keep my fiancée happy too :p. Her only 'stipulation', as such, is that the case looks good however all the ones that seem to look the shit don't seem to be too good as regards to noise/cooling etc. Any suggestions?
Not too late at all. This is all getting an idea of what I can afford and getting some opinions so that when it comes to actually buying the stuff, I'm better informed. Won't have the money for couple of weeks yet. I will check that before I do anything final.
Anything else guys and gals?
Oh yeah, and as regards to a case I have a wee problem. 1) I know least about cases than any other computer components and 2) being that this PC won't just be for me my I need to keep my fiancée happy too :p. Her only 'stipulation', as such, is that the case looks good however all the ones that seem to look the shit don't seem to be too good as regards to noise/cooling etc. Any suggestions?
you can get a case that looks anyway you want, if she wants it to look like a powerpuff girl, you can get it.
ofcourse the more custom it gets, the more pricy it gets.
im going to regret saying this, but you can even get pc cases that "resemble" the mac *cough* gay *cough* computers.
i despise everything mac related, not because its neccessarily bad or ugly, but purely because it's a mac.
but its possible, so pretty much just surf on google for a case.
if you want it to look... abnormal compared to normal computer cases, you might want to search google for "premod cases" or just standard "casemod"
theres a million ways to do it yourself, and an oodle of ways to buy a templated "custom" design.
You can get some pretty sweet mods for almost no more than a normal case, but as said, the more special, the more pricy.
EDIT:
your standard concerns are:
1: micro-atx, atx (the old ones), atx2 or whatever it is they call it, there are 2 standard sizes of atx besides the micro atx, and then theres the btx.
2: room to let the drives breathe, and to avoid cable-clutter, airflow is important unless you wanna go passive or liquid.
3: drivebay room, easy access is a wonderfull luxury that is getting more and more common, again take into consideration the length of cables required for each case, to avoid the clutter.
4: wheels, or no wheels. yes you can get cases with wheels, so you dont scratch the floor, and dont have to lift it all the time, easy to pull out from whereever when needed (no, you should not put it in a closed cupboard, and let it stand there when using it... no airflow, no cooling, overheating, melting, dies. of course this isnt a concern anymore unless the sensors die. 99.9 % of all motherboards have a safety device that shut everything down, before it starts taking damage, this is often in the form of a very annoying alarm that BEEEP BEEP BEEP, whooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmm, and then your computer is turned off.).
5: style, which is what everything above this numbered section is all about.
EDIT 2:
You can first of all buy noise reduction cases and components, often at the loss of performance though, but you can also buy some padding thingy that you put on your case manually to reduce noise, havent tested, havent heard how it is, but it exists.
pfft, silent ...
real computers sound like jetfighters during takeoff :)
SO SAY WE ALL
Yip one thing I noticed appart from the already previously mentioned case/mobo size is don't get 5400 ddr2, get the 800 ddr2 memory instead. Personally I'd go for the Crucial stuff as you get a lifetime guarentee with them.
Drop the 8800GTS - it's £165 compared to the £100 for an 8800GT - and maybe 5-10% difference in performance.
Is Vista Home Premium the right one for you? Check on M$'s site and so on - I'lll admit that Ultimate was probably overkill.
That Asus mobo seems a bit pricey for a P35 - what do you get for the extra £20 or so?
As Okran says, you'll notice the benefit of PC2-6400 RAM - but only really if you have any intention of overclocking. Which you should, as the Q6600 is really underclocked practically. 20% or so should be possible even without any real understanding of what you are doing. I'd stick with the OCZ stuff though - I've been really impressed with it.
Oh, and in my experience overclockers, while providing fairly good service are pretty damn expensive.
http://www.personal.leeds.ac.uk/~sms4al/matan%20computer2.gif
They have the P182 case in now at Ebuyer. No vista Home Premium 64 bit oddly though, so specced business on this one. Go figure.
I have just been playing around on a few sites comparing prices etc and came up with pretty much exactly the same thing as you there CMaster. My only thing now is whether Ultimate is worth the extra £40. I have looked and can see the differences in applications and such but does it make any difference to the performance of my PC?
I have just been playing around on a few sites comparing prices etc and came up with pretty much exactly the same thing as you there CMaster. My only thing now is whether Ultimate is worth the extra £40. I have looked and can see the differences in applications and such but does it make any difference to the performance of my PC?
Performance? None at all. It's just a difference in features. In fact Home Basic will probably perform best as it has the least graphical flashiness. Some of ultimate's features sound useful to me, but only you can decide if they are useful to you.
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