View Full Version : Let's make melee work
Hell-demon
16-02-08, 14:22
As it stands now melee is...crap.
I myself like not having to reload, rushing up to someone or something and slashing them.There are many people who would like to use melee weapons but find they are just not viable at the moment.
Most tanks now have to spec into heavy weapons to kick ass.
All melee needs is a few tweaks:
Damage
Melee needs a 25% or even 40% boost to damage. Right now hacking a hurler is alot like hacking down a huge redwood tree. Even laserblades can't kick ass.
Degredation
Melee weapons break too fast. A high charged plasma firing pistol degrades slower than a simple sword. My tank has had to spec into repair so he can constantly fix his swords like they are made out of cheap plastic.
WoC
Too much pistol and rifle love. Wisdom of Ceres has neglectic psi and melee. All we need is a WoC laserblade or samurai sword. No need to make new models.
Possibly upgrade the textures of melee weapons seeing as they got neglected during Evo 2.1.
Please KK tweak a few numbers.
Please.
We wanna stab things!
My personal stance on this is :
- Boost all melee weapons by 30%
- HALF the current rate of degredation
- Lower PoT to a reachable level by a PE (To allow melee PE)
- Implement WoC Samurai (Same model as Mr Jones sword)
- Implement WoC Red or Blue laserblade.
Melee = fixed and viable.
WALA!
Melee is risky, in that you have to get right in the face of who you are fighting - so I think 25% boost on the current poor damage is not enough. 40, however, is too high. Remember how insanely fast a melee tank can be :)
I've actually just rolled a tank - to make him a melee tank. Fix or no fix, i'm using it.
laserblades don't fit the WoC storyline though...
laserblades don't fit the WoC storyline though...
I'm well aware of that... but does it really matter?
Balance + variation VS storyline
Hell-demon
16-02-08, 15:17
Have a WoC electric shocker then.
I'm well aware of that... but does it really matter?
Balance + variation VS storyline
yes it does actually, the game is still an RPG
Okay... I guess what I meant to say is, it doesn't matter to me.
You have no objection to the Samurai I assume?
Hell-demon
16-02-08, 15:26
Anyway!
Surely these ides are viable and can be done by KK?
Just one WoC weapon that doesn't suck.
Degredation degraded.
Damage upped.
Surely...please.
Okay... I guess what I meant to say is, it doesn't matter to me.
You have no objection to the Samurai I assume?
I think every single melee weapon besides the laserblades fit the WoC storyline.
But anyway, it would be cool to see melee played again, the more different kind of fighters there are, the more interesting combat in a game becomes in my opinion.
Remember to link your discussion in the Brainport thread.
Triv
My personal stance on this is :
- Boost all melee weapons by 30%
- HALF the current rate of degredation
- Lower PoT to a reachable level by a PE (To allow melee PE)
- Implement WoC Samurai (Same model as Mr Jones sword)
- Implement WoC Red or Blue laserblade.
Okay i have a melee tank at the moment and i definately win more than half the fights i have, if not more than 2/3 of them, you just need to know how to use melee weapons, it's very similar to using a devourer, you either need to be on top of their hitbox or where they're going to be in a second or so's time, as well as making the hit connect with the box.
POB does roughly 40-50 on most targets with 220mc specced, and peacemaker (which is pure force) can sometimes do like 50-100 on some people =]
As for lowing POT, it's TL80.. with the regents melee pa giving +6 it's possible to get to 82 str without any drugs, there is also the newish rare knuckles that replaced the electric tempest at TL82 (the perforator)
If you up the damage of melee's by 30% i'd be fucking unstoppable (and probably get bored quickly), i'd say raise the damage by 10-20% at the very most.
Okay i have a melee tank at the moment and i definately win more than half the fights i have, if not more than 2/3 of them, you just need to know how to use melee weapons, it's very similar to using a devourer, you either need to be on top of their hitbox or where they're going to be in a second or so's time, as well as making the hit connect with the box.
POB does roughly 40-50 on most targets with 220mc specced, and peacemaker (which is pure force) can sometimes do like 50-100 on some people =]
As for lowing POT, it's TL80.. with the regents melee pa giving +6 it's possible to get to 82 str without any drugs, there is also the newish rare knuckles that replaced the electric tempest at TL82 (the perforator)
If you up the damage of melee's by 30% i'd be fucking unstoppable (and probably get bored quickly), i'd say raise the damage by 10-20% at the very most.
I haven't actually tested it being honest. I have fought a few melee tanks, and been able to take them down ridiculously easily - so I assumed it was a useless class to play.
I seem to have got my wires crossed with PoT... I think I meant the Vein Ripper - thats just out of reach with no drugs right?
Bob Arctor
16-02-08, 17:22
Even with a damage boost mellee wouldn't be all that viable in today's PvE environment. The only way to take down most high level mobs is to hide behind scenery or stay out of range if theyre CC mobs, a mellee user just wouldn't stand a chance.
As for WoC weapons, granted psi-modules and laser sword don't fit in with the mythos; but I'm sure with half an imagination KK can come up with a way in which modern day scientists might implement technology from WoC into more contemporary weapon types.
If not, something else should be thought up to compensate for such professions.
I haven't actually tested it being honest. I have fought a few melee tanks, and been able to take them down ridiculously easily - so I assumed it was a useless class to play.
yes most other melee tanks i've met have been complete noobs who haven't had a clue how to play them propperly (if you play them as a melee character SHOULD be played, you'll barely ever actually hit the target and be killed with ease) which gives people a bad idea of how viable they are, so whenever a skilled player is using one they get accused of using damage hax ;) (btw for the love of god, can KK confirm that damage hacks don't even exist in the game.. as far as i know data is sent from the client to the server telling them they hit, then the server calculates the damage done and sends it back to the clients.. which is why we don't see the red numbers on our clients as soon as we click... isn't that common sense)
and vein ripper is TL97, peacemaker is TL94, neither are even close to being used without drugs :p
@bob: you forget that KK class "hide behind scenery or stay out of range" as exploiting...
i wanted a rare CHAINSAW for years...but nobody listend....
but MC is fucking annoying to play. Before 2 years....HELL there it was good even (or specially) as a PE u can rock. Today?
As Melee i have to PREDICT where my enemy is for that laggy server. its a shame a complete class doomed into uselessnes because of the netcode.
My Final solution!
Give Melee a Huge range (about 10 meter) but the damage reduces more far the enemy stand away from u
example
MC hit target. target is away 10 meter (30 feet) dmg = 5
MC hit target. target is away 0.00003 (kissing distance) meter dmg = 150
So the netcode is not sooo problematic anymore
just imagine a huge muscleman take his full power and swing a Baseballbat and hit your head.
MC dmg have to be big!
landofcake
16-02-08, 23:11
I agree with all this (except for the Melee range and damage reduction idea ... what's all THAT about ?!?) ...
Melee isn't TOTALLY broken, but it's not good. It really needs some improvement, and really shouldn't be a tough fix compared to the APU (which needs a far more complex fix not just involving the weapons).
Hell-demon
17-02-08, 14:49
Just give us a damage boost and all will be well.
This is a difficult one to figure out, Ive run into many people trying to be melee and they get ownd so bad you think it must be a fundemental problem with the class, but like teraman says, I've also run across a select few who absolutely rape with melee, especially melee PE's.
Just don't do anything stupid KK, like you did with APU's :rolleyes:
Apocalypsox
17-02-08, 19:37
Nuh uh. Not just a damage boost. I want my frequency back too :mad:
landofcake
17-02-08, 22:35
This is a difficult one to figure out, Ive run into many people trying to be melee and they get ownd so bad you think it must be a fundemental problem with the class, but like teraman says, I've also run across a select few who absolutely rape with melee, especially melee PE's.
Just don't do anything stupid KK, like you did with APU's :rolleyes:
I'd DEFINATELY fear the knuckles if i were you ... or not, seeing as the damage output is quite frankly absolutely terrible
What needs to be fixed :
- Netcode
- PVE : impossible with melee spec
- Degredation
What needs to be balanced :
- Melee PAs and Implants which lowers weapon lore, endurance, or ath
- Melee damage is a bit low, maybe boost it around 10/15% max, a TL 115 melee weapon should roughly do same damage as a TL 115 heavy weapon. At the moment melee is about half of heavy's damage.
Are you peole forgetting the one HUGE advantage melee gives? Err... bucket loads of run speed. I've got a mate will a mc tank, and he's bloody hard to hit when he's running around you like a nat. Make MC too powerful and everyone will just become MC tanks, accept me I'll still be HC because i don't play "flavour of the month" :)
Are you peole forgetting the one HUGE advantage melee gives? Err... bucket loads of run speed. I've got a mate will a mc tank, and he's bloody hard to hit when he's running around you like a nat. Make MC too powerful and everyone will just become MC tanks, accept me I'll still be HC because i don't play "flavour of the month" :)
False.
Nowadays Ionic cotton HC tanks are the real FOTM and run like crazy. The removal of runspeed cap makes it very hard for Melee tanks to get an edge on runspeed compared to HC tanks.
Furthermore, you might still want to get a PA if you plan on having 115 STR for devil's grace, or other higher TL melee weapons.
Doc Holliday
18-02-08, 16:30
agreed with most points raised but one thing that permeates through this thread is the whole I did this and i rape/i did this and i got raped style of testing. its like oh so and so pooons he needs a nerf or something. people be careful of doing this because if u assume everyone sucks with melee and it needs a boost dont moan when the boost u requested is applied and everyones suddenly overpowered. test properly then report it. same as if you owned some melee tanks. just because u owned them might mean they suck or your god (jini ;) ) so it might not ring true for everyone else. try and test properly.
melee does need a boost but it needs to be ascertained just how much before we go off at the deep end.
Yeah you are right. Melee needs first of all a fix (netcode, degradation, pve).
A slight boost is also needed but it's really nothing compared to the bug fixes needed to make this spec usable again.
10% would be more than enough...
infact (seeing as none of you even play melees or have a clue about what needs fixing) i think the main thing that needs adjusting is the amount of stamina used from the weapons, currently it's a joke, on my mc tank i use 3 of my qb slots for stam boosters, and i'm also using stams from 2.1 which have 4 uses, and by the end of a 1v1 fight i've generally used all of those. If it was half the stamina usage (which would be more like it was in 2.1) that would go a long way in helping imo :)
the damage needs raising by 15% i think, any more would be too much.. they'd still have the lowest damage over time with 15% which is what they're supposed to be i belive?
Hell-demon
20-02-08, 20:41
Good point, can't believe I overlooked it.
Stamina drain is way too much. It needs to be decreased. Try moving and stabbing and soon you move at a crawl.
Definatly needs to be addressed.
Could also do with increasing the amount of stams per pack. Maybe increase it to 10?
Could also do with increasing the amount of stams per pack. Maybe increase it to 10?
That would be the sex.
Agreed for the stamina drain being too much, However Terraman I've always played melee and I still do (it's my only character actually) so don't say you're the only one to know about this spec ;) I'm sure other posters know melee tanks very well too
My POB Tank is on an innactive account so i can't add much to the physical balancing or freq/damage.
But what I can tell you is that I can't remember the last time i had a request for a melee rare! If the market says anything, there is no market for melee at all.
So if the classes are so well balanced, why is everyone drifting to Heavy? when Melee used to be so much fun! (Rhetorical Question, before i get a flurry of answers!)
William Antrim
21-02-08, 15:58
infact (seeing as none of you even play melees or have a clue about what needs fixing) i think the main thing that needs adjusting is the amount of stamina used from the weapons, currently it's a joke, on my mc tank i use 3 of my qb slots for stam boosters
Well I will just point out one fatal flaw in your post (aside from jumping to conclusions that you're the only one with any clue) and say that plenty of the melee tanks of old that I have had the pleasure of knowing and fighting with/against generally have used 2 medkits/heal (3 at the most) and one weapon in their qbs. This would leave 6 (count them, yes see 6 there you go son youre catching up) stamina boosters to be used for fighting. Stamina will go down waaaaay faster than health will go up (even before survival kits were introduced) so you need the most stamina possible. You should maybe give this a try because like, yeah, you're the first person to ever play a REAL melee tank. ;)
Seriously now, joking aside, starting a post out with something like that really isnt going to make you any friends around here, especially when you make a nooby mistake like that further on in your own post. You have identified your own problem here bub but you've just not realised it.
Now, glad we cleared that up. Flib, love the idea m8. Stamina boosters with 10 shots would be awesome tbh. Even if they were 5x the price, I would pay it.
well i should've probably put "half" instead of "none" that was a slight exaggeration, but definately more than half the people here don't play melee tanks and are commenting about them as if they do..
also i have reasons for only having 3 slots for stams, which should be enough (and generally is for op fighting), i only have 1 medkit, heal tool and a couple of weapons on my belt then a few kami's to stop people zone whoring :p i guess 4 stams and 2 kamis would be the way to go, thank you ever so much almighty sir for your vast array of melee combat knowledge
just so you know i've pretty much always played a melee tank since i started in nc2 :p and yes i've pretty much always been pvp active in a main clan.. not trying to sound like i think that's an achievement.. the fact i've been the best most of that time is <3
Hell-demon
21-02-08, 21:22
Taking on board suggestions, here is what we as the community feel should be done about melee:
-Reduce stamina drain on melee weapons
-Reduce weapon degredation on melee weapons
-Increase damage output by 25% (give or take)
-More stamina boosters in stamina booster packs
-Melee WoC weapons (samurai sword if possible)
Taking on board suggestions, here is what we as the community feel should be done about melee:
-Reduce stamian drain on melee weapons
-Reduce weapon degredation on melee weapons
-Increase damage output by 25% (give or take)
-More stamina boosters in stamina booster packs
-Melee WoC weapons (samurai sword if possible)
Thats about right - although, after reading the views in this thread, and testing it - I'd have melee boosted by 15% max
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