View Full Version : Strength PE Viability
landofcake
01-01-08, 19:38
Alright guys,
Come back to the game, very impressed with some of the changes in the game, and i will definately be resubscribing at the end of the free month.
However, i've still got one bone to pick, and that's the state of the Strength based PE possibilities (Melee and HC).
I've always enjoyed trying mad setups that aren't usually used too much, and it's excellent that KK have given us more of a chance to mess around with pistol and rifle tanks (PA's and +5 to DEX).
However, i used to love playing a HC/MC PE, and it's now really difficult. It's ironic really that KK have finally provided us with Melee and HC Power Armour (even the lovely Regants Melee PA, even with the HLT malus), yet the viability of HC and MC PE's is far less due to the changes to the implants.
Currently an HC PE has the options of a SpeedGat, TPC and TT Laser Cannon (to be fair, i have not tried this weapon). The damage of these options is ... not particularly good. Likewise with Melee, the real options being the Paw of Tiger and the Perforator, which are really, really weak. However, two very decent weapons are JUST out of reach of the HC and MC PE in the form of the S.T.O.R.M Laser and Energy Soulblade.
I've been able to get my PE high enough to use the Energy Soulblade, except it takes 5 drugs, including the Kri'Nakh Nightshade.
Some possible options i'd love to see to make these classes more viable:
- Maybe raise the STR cap of the PE by 5. The most obvious place i think a PE could lose 5 in a mainstat is INT, after all, you're allowed to get STR WoC as a PE.
- Make the rare Kri'Nakh STR drug cloneable.
- 'Fix' the Strength implants. Things like the Marine CPU barely give any strength, i've ended up having to use all three Physics CPU's and a Berserk/Soldier 3. Whatever happened to the Move On ? It was the staple of a HC/MC PE setup, and it's barely worth anything these days.
As an interesting point, the Regant Melee PE PA requires 80 Strength, which is (as far as i'm aware) impossible to reach with implants alone, regardless of what implants you use. I have to take X-Beast and X-Strong just to get the PA on (although it does hold itself on).
My opinion of these classes is that you should be able to use things like the TL90 dropped weapons with perhaps one drug, or no drugs, and rares that are in the 95 - 105 TL range should be avaliable to the lunatics who want to take a huge amount of drugs ...
(or make epics weapons worth using)
Opinions ?
Both the TT laser and the CM gat are somewhat viable in pvp.
But compared to a tank with a CS or a rifle / pistol PE the damageoutput is pretty shitty.
Stick to tanks for HC. They rule.
Apocalypsox
01-01-08, 21:23
my TT epic generally ends up doing more damage than my CS sadly enough.
the CS i use is a 4 slot all arti.
landofcake
01-01-08, 21:34
I have just found a certain amount of joy in using the Perforator.
In Plaza 2, jumping on people after they've fought someone else and trying to run away, they don't realise what's going on and they think i'm just punching them :)
I don't know about PvP, and I gather that's what you might mean, but HC PE is very viable in PvE if you use epic weapons. My friend has a HC PE and that tangent laser cannon does almost as much damage as my TL 110 Special Forces Plasma Wave and fires just as fast, if not faster. I don't know, however, how much of that is due to him having more dex and way more int than I do, as I haven't checked his stats (I'm a tank). He's aiming to do the CM epic to get the speed gat soon, so we'll find out about that. But as is, the tangent epic cannon is great.
I agree with the str implants. Holy christ those were nerfed. And all the useful ones gank your agl or atl (yeah I saw the KK post). Moveon is a useless pile of crap now. Marine is a pos too, so I swapped that out for a free Herc my friend came across. It gives MC and not HC, but hey, at least it doesn't do negative HC, so the rest of the bonuses are still useful. But I feel you on the implants man. It didn't used to be hard to get good str on a PE, but with the way fixed the not-broken implants, don't know what to tell ya for PvP. PvE is still decent though. My friend was soloing the area in regants right before the boss on a regular basis, and we were able to do the boss too once I duoed it with him on my PPU.
Just another vote for the TT cannon. It's quite good. :)
landofcake
02-01-08, 00:14
I'll grab a TT cannon, but if that's a decent option, that still means that Strength based PE's have ... one good weapon.
Not alot of choice.
Well I also use a 5 slot TL75 fusion cannon and with the new 99% build quality cap it's all arti where it matters.. and like said the CM epic is quite nice too. The epics are nice tho because they get a damage bonus, not sure if it is cumulative with the hightech bonus but it's higher anyways.
landofcake
02-01-08, 06:14
To be honest, you're right, the Tangent Epic Laser Cannon is very, very powerful. Moreso than a S.T.O.R.M Laser.
Does anyone know if there's a Heavy Combat version of the Regant's PA avaliable ? As i'm currently using the Melee one.
Archtemplar
03-01-08, 23:38
To be honest, you're right, the Tangent Epic Laser Cannon is very, very powerful. Moreso than a S.T.O.R.M Laser.
Does anyone know if there's a Heavy Combat version of the Regant's PA avaliable ? As i'm currently using the Melee one.
There is no Regent HC PE PA, and I'm guessing you're not using the regular HC PE PA because of its minute str bonus?
There is no Regent HC PE PA, and I'm guessing you're not using the regular HC PE PA because of its minute str bonus?I'm not using it because underwear gives assloads more resist.. dunno about anyone else. It gives enough str so I don't need x-beast to use my guns tho..
Hi! I'm Sorin's friend :lol:
The Regant M-C PA lets you setup some nice resists with a mix of duranium regular and advanced. With it you get a good chunk of energy, fire, poison and decent force and pierce. Sucks for the health gimpage but it doesn't seam to be that big of a health nuke. Toss in some antigamma bones with some creative con and implant work you can end up with 120's in xray,pois,fire, and 150s in energy/force/pierce. That topped off with a side of blessed D and regular protec and absorb and it's a good day to be a PE. :D
On another note I think the TT epic is powerful but bugged as well. Most of the time it does good damage but every now and then it does OMFG damage.
i startet out as hc Pe in 2.2 since i was come back here my resaults ( just my opinion)
1. Driver combat is crap now because of lack strg you have no chance to push youreslf up to strg 90 vor an rihno and for reveller you do have 2 drugs or 1 drug + regants pa .. another probelm you got no chance to put yourself on the 3er and 4er hc Pe Pa on ( no chance even withall drugs in )
Therfore my thoughts : its all about the Komma stats of the implants if they round that stats up a big nerf problem of the hc Pe would be passed.
Move on is an joke bring back strg on that imp !!! Marine is another joke !
why does an sfc 3.8 dex but an marine only 1.9 strg ? know one unterstand that changes. now if that imps and stats wuld be rounded up - strg 90 would be possible for an Hc Pe ( rigth now ca 85 strg ) an therfore rihno / reveller / storm laser / Judgement day/ pa 3 laucher etc
2. the best wepon in the mom is the tt epic an the Tangent plasma wave.
no doubt pvm is great with an hc Pe. great resi ,good Ae damge with ray/fusi cannon an grenade laucher / goodwish armor etc
but pvp ? well for my results Speedgun is wothless / tpc to low on damge for Pe stats only the tt laser an the plasma wave works but in comparison with
dex wepons ... well no chance ;) volcano grenade laucher realy makes fun in op fights an great damge too but to be honest every tank with an winding rocks more. not the big hit but an option is the strg 70 flamer with wargas mod ( and artifact moding ) . now its not an devorer of course and you more some sort of devo light but beacuse of better aim than an tank you realy can be an pain in the ass on spys /monk an some Pes with that wepon
But if you ask me....
bring back the option to get an Pe up to strg 90 without drugging (Implant rework) like it was on 2.1 an overwork the 4er hc Pa ( strg 105 ???? hellooo??)
thats all he need then he could drive comabt rihno ,get an storm laser , druged for winding argument an an tpc or tpw , an judgmet day laucher und you got an fine class ;)
but in mom hc pe is been dead patchet :mad:
btw: i never realy levelt up but it is posibble to woc strg as an Pe ? that should be an option if there where woc items for hc :rolleyes:
btw: i never realy levelt up but it is posibble to woc strg as an Pe ? that should be an option if there where woc items for hc :rolleyes:
Yes, it is possible,
But the str reqs on everything are too high, and it takes a really, really, really long time to get there.
Move on is an joke bring back strg on that imp !!! Marine is another joke !
Yeah man, since I've been playing for the free month and noticing the changes, I've seen very few, if any, items that have been as heavily smashed and destroyed with the nerf bat as these two implants have. Holy christ they're useless.
Give the moveon 2.xx str and the marine 3.xx str. plzplzplz. :(
;) :cool:
Yes, it is possible,
But the str reqs on everything are too high, and it takes a really, really, really long time to get there.
that wouldnt been an problem in an rihno if the hc Pe could get strg 90
sure strg 60 capp is low an long to 260 mios exp but i figuerd out that my Ae raycannon bzw volcane bashed an leecht more exp in regants than i did later dex woc with rk 1000 in ceres
but of courese its al worth because there nothign woc for tanks already ( except that bazooka) so why should an Pe strg woc ? same strg push he will get with the regants Pa
Btw bring in an hc Pe Regants Pa :cool: ;) :cool:
RandomCustomer
05-01-08, 22:19
http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?p=2081394#post2081394
I still like this old idea from this thread I linked.
If the devs really wanted to they could make an alternate pe with 80 str, that's also balanced. Take away the option for dex woc levels for the str 80 pe.
This also made me think of something. Is it possible now for private eyes to get a woc skill point in str, and use the warhammer or the melee woc weapon? I think those weapons could make existing hc, or mc private eyes a more viable option.
imo moveon needs its str bonus back (around the same bonus the lvl 2 pure str imp gives) and the rare to nonrare gap needs to be closed in order to make hc pes pvp viable again.
Apocalypsox
06-01-08, 00:37
There should be a PE limit of dex to 60.
Now that youve gotten over that shock, i say this because then they could implement a mission or NPC selection that either gives you a cap of 80 str or your 80 dex. That way, the PE could really be the all-around character its ment to be and it wouldnt effect any of the PE riflers or pistol users.
STR 80 base would give you alot more choices to weapons, even some rare weps that are viable.
There should be a PE limit of dex to 60.
Now that youve gotten over that shock, i say this because then they could implement a mission or NPC selection that either gives you a cap of 80 str or your 80 dex. That way, the PE could really be the all-around character its ment to be and it wouldnt effect any of the PE riflers or pistol users.
STR 80 base would give you alot more choices to rare weapons, even some rare weps that are viable.
Fantastic idea.
I fully support this
/bump
imo the best solution mainskillwise would be to remove psi and raise str to 70, con to 90.
i do have a problem with tanks having more dex then pes and with dex 60 a pe would be slower then a tc tank. also 10 more str would allow dex weapon based pes to actually use better str armor then spies, the majority of which is slightly above pe base str (because kk didn't know that pes had only 60 str when making all the changes, just look at the old hc pe pa requirements if you don't believe me :p ). The 25 con would more than make up for the lost psi shielding, pes use tank heals anyways as they are way better and the debuff nanites are a joke that have not a single in game application.
landofcake
06-01-08, 02:33
There should be a PE limit of dex to 60.
Now that youve gotten over that shock, i say this because then they could implement a mission or NPC selection that either gives you a cap of 80 str or your 80 dex. That way, the PE could really be the all-around character its ment to be and it wouldnt effect any of the PE riflers or pistol users.
STR 80 base would give you alot more choices to weapons, even some rare weps that are viable.
Got to admit i agree with this one too.
Like you start out 60/60/65/60/35 and then a little mini quest gives you your 80 str or 80 dex? That would be neat.
edit: For run & gun fun try the fusion cannon or rgc. Reticle poo. It's almost like playing a true hitscan fps. :D
@yukki
then you can already play an tank
its like it is at mom Pe is nothing more adavantages in comparsion with an spy
except con/armor thats it
psi is been nothing special more on Pe no basic resit no haz 1 no heat 1
i do lomt my psi up on my bow/judge Pe to 91 ppu an get rest focus and psi40 with havenx and haven x forte for haz/heat but its quit stress you everytime drugged even if you want to cast an absorber ( because of two Mc5 in )
now if you get parante x too you always run fight an walk with 3 drugs an instant flash
so to be honest why do i need 35 psi then ? when i can do nothing special withit in comparsion to an spy 20 psi ?
so the class should be rised up to psi 40 or make the low resi spells lower for 35 psi OR Put it complete away like an spy to psi 20 and give the 15 levles to strg or dex
now for that means
Like you start out 60/60/65/60/35 and then a little mini quest gives you your 80 str or 80 dex? That would be neat.
60/60/65/80/20 then to that run and you can chose for +15 dex or +15strg
or overwork class to 60/75/65/80/20
Heh that would make a near-spy with 75 str. Maybe not a good idea. :p edit: oh wait I see I was still thinking of the +15 :o (75 str and 95 dex popped in my head)
What about blessed deflector? 14/12/10 (according to CMaster) would become um 6/12/10.. no biggie I guess. But for off-setups, there are the psi imps, the drugs of course, and also psi armor for many setups.
to be honest...
blessed def is crap theres no differnce between an Normal deflect with 140 % (damg) or an Blessed Deflect with 110% ( all aritfact stats ) at 85 ppu
and if its the only opinion to an spy .... well thats a little bit les dont you think ß
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