View Full Version : clipping
In the past it was simply annoying and now it has slowly evolved to where it is completely destroying the quality of op fights. The problem is everyone is willing to complain about it...but no 1 is willing to not do it. The way i see it we have two choices..one KK fixes the game..or two we all come together and STOP CLIPPING. I realize that both are probably a miracle but like i said it is beginning to ruin the quality of op fights and maybe we can all suck it up and die like men (or women). Either way... something has to be done.... 8| I dunno maybe the clan leaders can come together or something....cause i think everyone can agree that it is fucking up op fights big time.
I can only see one way to semi-fix this problem quickly:
Adjust the run speed.
It only seems to be Tanks and Monks that I see clipping. Probably because both can afford to put a lot if not all points in Dex under AGL.
The OP fight at Tyron Factory the other night was ridiculous, one PPU Monk in particular 'Julie Fatale' kept on deliberately clipping by running the same route the whole time. Even with about 6 of us shooting her it was just impossible to take her down. It was a complete joke, I personally gave up shooting her in the end...
I don't mean to be rude but lets keep naming and past events out of this and lets try to focus on how we can fix (or at least help) the situation.
Dead Bodies
19-12-07, 01:54
I have NO problem with clipping... i dont mean i say its okay i mean i rarly experiance it. My FPS stay so high that when they try to clip they usually lag and allow for me to hit them more. i watch them slowly creep around the corner instead of going through the wall. yes a few ajustments had to be made to obtain this effect but clipping is only an issue i think for indivual users and their pc/ setup.
Again i rarely see anyone clipping i have tons of videos of them trying and its funny but, i believe its a connection issue. becasue i only experance the "clipping" when pantho or CDM is in the zone... no im just kidding. i only experiance it when my FPS / bandwith are LOW.
/edit - KK .. we ever going to fix that memmory leak?
E&E
I have NO problem with clipping... i dont mean i say its okay i mean i rarly experiance it.
mebbe you should fight more often in ops that have trees and hills...
My FPS stay so high that when they try to clip they usually lag and allow for me to hit them more.
Congrats... funny enough I have found the clipping to be in pretty much no way connected to the fps or general system performance. The client calculates the movement path B between A and C... and it doesn't account for obstacles or z-axis properly. The only thing you get with more fps is more frames of clipping bullshit in a second - congrats to that. :)
My FPS stay so high that when they try to clip they usually lag and allow for me to hit them more. i watch them slowly creep around the corner instead of going through the wall.yes a few ajustments had to be made to obtain this effect but clipping is only an issue i think for indivual users and their pc/ setup.
I disagree - I get very very high FPS all the time. Regardless of FPS, when you're fighting against certain people, you can tell their intention is to clip once they get to a certain health. NC FPS is now capped, too, so I doubt you get hugely improved FPS than me.
Some people have already told me they were taught how to do it more effectively, whilst in their former clans.
It happens, and it happens deliberately.
/Below here is an edit - seems I added an edit to this as Eldac was posting below.
That's not to say that every time anyone clips that's deliberate, but sometimes people clip deliberately - and some people more than others.
A lot of the people that are "clipping" arn't doing it on purpose. Its the bugged netcode that's causing these problems to happen.
A lot of times you don't know that you appear to others that you're "clipping".
The people that clip - do know they are doing it. Weapon goes away, and they sprint round and round buildings. Coincidentally, they arent doing it until they are almost dead.
its quite a shock to me, as this didnt exist in Nc1. Not that I am aware of anyway.
The clipping will continue forever, as it comes down to the people and their decision to not do it, unfortunately this game is full of hatred and a general negative attitude towards other players, and clans other than their own, especially when OP fighting. This has been discussed before and the same conclusion is met everytime: its upto the people to not do it, and they continue anyway. I wish this was fixable.
Voodoo_Magic
19-12-07, 05:19
Agree'd
After fighting today, the tanks we was fighting, actually stopped put there weapon away, and ran in circles around the hack term until they was 50%> hp...
all of them.
Also, for the record it was Terrarist-Bucaners w/e it was spelt... There new clan
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so true, and you are blood queen of clippin ;)
but yes... clippin is gettin old tbh.
I would feel quite bad to clip just to stay alive.
Ive been told to fight the enemies.. not to run from them.
eather way u try to clip or not you clip anyway. you just dont notice it ur self.
just like jini would say. "i dont clip" :D
Apocalypsox
19-12-07, 08:07
I bet i clip like a motherfucker on Warbot :D 108 agility, 95 athletics, i run faster than a fucking glider
Yep, speedcap please.
Just to mention, we had the whole discussion (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=141046) not too long ago... :rolleyes:
Danny
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Bullshit.
Running around like mad, intentionally hugging every corner and ramp you can find isn't skill.
You just plain suck. That is the opposite of skill.
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Bullshit.
Running around like mad, intentionally hugging every corner and ramp you can find isn't skill.
You just plain suck. That is the opposite of skill.
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Nicely put :D
Nicely put :D
yeah and he is damn right :P
I completely agree.
I was at a brilliant OP fight that was only ruined for me slightly by 3 of the enemy clan members. One of which circled the hack room, one of which just ran circles round the store in the op....
and the last one, that really annoyed me.... was an enemy WoC PE, who couldnt beat me with PPU assistance, and to make him look even worse, he used the UG entrance to hug and run around. Not only did he clip but he was barely targetable.
They all died in the end, so i sexed the corpses of the clippers :lol:
It's ridiculous how people would rather damage their reputations by exploiting than just die after a good fight and get a rezz/couple of pokes.
YOU SUCK.
Idiots.
The only "solution" to clipping that would work with the current systems is the dreaded and reviled paraglue *spit*.
That's the only reason this was never moaned about so loudly before - after all the issue has been around since day one of NC1. The netcode was designed 6 years ago for the bandwidth of a 56k modem, and hasn't changed since.
On balance I'd rather live with clip-whores for now, rather than have fucking paraspam back. Compared to the soul-crushing frustration of those days clipping is a very mild irritation indeed.
On balance I'd rather live with clip-whores for now, rather than have fucking paraspam back. Compared to the soul-crushing frustration of those days clipping is a very mild irritation indeed.
That's a very good point.
The clipping, all be it bad, is nothing in comparison to the Parashock+ DB = DEATH combo of the old days.
Seraphin[69]
19-12-07, 11:26
And I said not so long ago you whined for the paraspam to be removed from the game but that was the only way to prevent the clipping which happened when they put in the fucking netcode patch...
Don't you remember the patch where it was IMPOSSIBLE for monks to use any PSI spell ? (flapping hands not casting all the time even standing still)
That's where it all began, but para was still ingame so it was a low problem.
Having para back in game with at least 200 mana drain for ppu would be fine imo and remove the clipping. The problem is you would kill the "drugs" template as you cannot remove your drugflash anymore... well... a few runners know how to but most don't...
and clipping was most of the time useless in that time because of no LOS of APU Monks.
running around corners wasnt very effective. u were just easy to aim and hit.
']The problem is you would kill the "drugs" template as you cannot remove your drugflash anymore... well... a few runners know how to but most don't...
Are you implying that you know people that are cheating to remove drug flash?
']And I said not so long ago you whined for the paraspam to be removed from the game but that was the only way to prevent the clipping which happened when they put in the fucking netcode patch...
Don't you remember the patch where it was IMPOSSIBLE for monks to use any PSI spell ? (flapping hands not casting all the time even standing still)
That's where it all began, but para was still ingame so it was a low problem.
Having para back in game with at least 200 mana drain for ppu would be fine imo and remove the clipping. The problem is you would kill the "drugs" template as you cannot remove your drugflash anymore... well... a few runners know how to but most don't...
Parashock got nothing to do with the netcode. Just because you could slow someone down to a point where he was barely abled to move at all doesn't improve the incredibly shitty netcode we have to dead with now.
KK seriously need to sort out the netcode. Before they try anything else. A huge amount of the people they just managed to get back with a damn awesome patch is mostly interested in pvp and those will be gone again because of this issue.
The netcode is so bad, it's not even funny anymore. Even if you don't abuse it, you're still in a completely different place on someone elses screen 90% of the time. :(
And that last paragraph really lets you look bad. It pretty much implies that either you yourself or people you know are using exploits to avoid the drugflash or at least know of ways to do so. Think about it. Then report it to KK. :rolleyes:
A lot of the problems aren't just down to poor clipping these days either - much of it, especially for the indoor fights is just a combination of lag and the weird way Neocron's weapons work.
This is what one one of my clanmates (Who was the PPU) shouted at me on vent the other night.
"Brammers stop f***ing clipping"
Now all I was do was moving around a hill in Battledome while hunting warbots. :wtf:
Since nothing was done in the last patch, one does have to assume at this stage that KK are not even going to bother fixing it.
Maybe it's simply too difficult to diagnose and fix...
The game desperately needs a runspeed cap which I think is what everyone should be asking for at this point as a temp semi-fix to this issue. If KK made it so once you put a certain amount of points into Ath and Agi say 60 for example, after that anymore points won't really affect you much and the more you add the lesser the amount of extra speed you would achieve.
This would mean that it would be much harder to clip so that you can let a heal run and gain your life back, it's the fact that you get Tanks which spec on purpose to allow this with there Athletics to do this, and this would put a stop to that to a large extent IMO.
This is what one one of my clanmates (Who was the PPU) shouted at me on vent the other night.
"Brammers stop f***ing clipping"
Now all I was do was moving around a hill in Battledome while hunting warbots. :wtf:
Since nothing was done in the last patch, one does have to assume at this stage that KK are not even going to bother fixing it.
How Kk expect ex-nc1, 2.1 ppl to return or complete newbies to join when game has horrible issues like this, not to speak i was fattaling, desyncing often, and playing as droner newbie ... you can imagine how i was surprised how newbie drones work.. or i should say not work.
Conclussion: me and my met stayed in NC 2 days, and we left it, for good, maybe if there is any nc3 in future with new engine, 'normal' database ssytem... who knows :)
But on a counter-argument...
Runspeed cap would kill one aspect that I have always loved about this game. I love being really fast, it's great for one on one PvP.
But I suppose it depends on what you would set the runspeed cap at.
If it's 150 agil and 60 athletics, or the equivalent - then I'd be happier ;)
how about if the clipping cant be fixed, just redo op scenarios to nicer platforms. would be much nicer. no rams or pillars everywhere. unstable platforms. would not matter anyway do ppl do it with purpose or with out. i see it everyday anyway. i havent seen a single op fight after it started where ppl would not clip. just cos i say i do it atleast i admid it and dont have a problem with it. u can say all what u want how coward it is. yee wheres the skills ? everyone can clip as much as they like. Am i the _ONLY_ person who doesent have a problem with it, since all i see is whine whine moaning and moaning, no skill just a pure clipper ? join the club
why do a speedcap ? so everyone would run 1 same speed ? where the unique setups then ? just cos ppl run faster than someone else doesent mean it takes points away from his resists or something else. and yea now cs work ? mean u put points to tc so u loose some speed.
A runspeed cap wouldn't really solve anything. The problem here is that the character positioning is completely wrecked.
If you run around someone in a circle, it'll look like you're running in a weird non-circular path.
If you're standing on a box, you bounce up and down.
Ever get stuck in an elevator on someone else's screen?
I noticed last night, if I log on two characters at once (different computers and accounts), first Client A and then Client B, Client B could not see Client A unless client A moved somehow... buggy? Naah... :o
A runspeed cap would solve alot of things.
for example say there is a fight going on in the middle of nowhere, as soon as person A gets in trouble they run for the nearest object and start clipping. Because people that set themselves up for clipping can run fast enough to reach that object in 2 seconds rather than say 5 seconds if there was a runspeed cap, it would give you more of a chance.
This would also help with clipping because if you move slower round the object the clipping becomes less apparent particularly round large buildings like hackterms.
This is the only kind've fix we will see, because the only other alternative is Netcode fix which KK have stated over and over again they won't be changing.
People could move at different speeds, it worked like that in NC1 and early 2 fine, it would just mean you can't spec so you run at the speed of light, which is designed to allow you to clip better.
I have no idea what can be done to solve this problem. Would like to hear some input from the dev team here.
This is a very high priority matter for this game. No other serious pvp community of any type of game would accept this.
How would a serious tournament like CPL look at this.. they would laugh out LOUD.
Maby this is the reason why NC havent hosted any serious tournament or ranking competitions. Because if you lose, you can always blame on the clippin.
and for the record. Vila aka blood queen is one of the best dev tanks I know in this game. not fair to say its no skill at all because he run fast.
Try duel him... specc fire...
how about if the clipping cant be fixed, just redo op scenarios to nicer platforms. would be much nicer. no rams or pillars everywhere. unstable platforms. would not matter anyway do ppl do it with purpose or with out. i see it everyday anyway. i havent seen a single op fight after it started where ppl would not clip. just cos i say i do it atleast i admid it and dont have a problem with it. u can say all what u want how coward it is. yee wheres the skills ? everyone can clip as much as they like. Am i the _ONLY_ person who doesent have a problem with it, since all i see is whine whine moaning and moaning, no skill just a pure clipper ? join the club
why do a speedcap ? so everyone would run 1 same speed ? where the unique setups then ? just cos ppl run faster than someone else doesent mean it takes points away from his resists or something else. and yea now cs work ? mean u put points to tc so u loose some speed.
There's a huge difference between YOUR clipping and pretty much everyone elses clipping. :rolleyes:
So you better just get the fuck out of this thread as you are the last person in NC to seriously comment on the clipping issue.
Well... maybe a runspeed cap would put sort of a band-aid on it.
It won't stop there though, someone will figure out another exploit and something else will have to be "fixed". :(
Does this game actually use some sort of dead reckoning?
If you reduce runspeed anymore you're going to completely ruin the Melee tank.
As said before, I am one of the people who doesn't see much clipping. They normally lag on a buildings wall and i can anti-buff them etc (never melee as melee doesn't register when they run away ;) )
Only problem I get clipping is on hills, where they disappear into it for a few seconds. Doesn't always happen and I have no idea if I am doing it too.
When dual logged I've noticed on client 1 or 2 that a char will be stuck in an apartment lift even though I know that they are not, or a char will appear at the begining of a zone and remain there even though they have moved (ie chaos caves). People regularly cut through walls fall into hills or altogether disappear for me. :(
I think runspeed caps will only aid in putting a temp bandaid over the problem till someone overcomes it. Perhaps a server positioning problem ?
Bit of an arse really and oddly enough the only game i've experienced it on.
I love the way some vocal people come back to the game and now its an urgent problem. Its been like this for years and KK are fully aware of the problem, because we've been complaining about it for years.
You're allowed to have your opinions so thats fine, but keep things in perspective, they are aren't going to revamp the core netcode of the game, or speed up the server-side calculations with new hardware, a manual fudge like a runspeed cap is the best you can hope for.
There's a huge difference between YOUR clipping and pretty much everyone elses clipping. :rolleyes:
So you better just get the fuck out of this thread as you are the last person in NC to seriously comment on the clipping issue.
very mature level of disscussion :rolleyes:
everyones input is welcome, even if he would be the biggest clip **** on the server.. dosnt matter.
The people that clip - do know they are doing it. Weapon goes away, and they sprint round and round buildings. Coincidentally, they arent doing it until they are almost dead.
its quite a shock to me, as this didnt exist in Nc1. Not that I am aware of anyway.
Ahh, so when I am about to die I should stand still with my weapon out? Its quite a shock to me that people want to run away. When I am about to die I run away and run around buildings. Reason: usually, bullets don't shoot through walls.
People often clip on my screen, but because its an effect they cannot do anything about, and neither can I, then I don't worry about it, and as often as people clip around the place, I am certain that I will do the same to them.
As far as I can see the solution would be to solve the clipping, and not cap runspeeds. If runspeeds were capped then I would be dead even more often than afore. I spec a lot into ATH and AGL so that I can run fast and conversly I loose in HTH. I have always specced a lot into speed related areas since nc1.
Nothing Else To Say Moore.
110% agree
Ahh, so when I am about to die I should stand still with my weapon out?
There's a difference between running around to avoid being hit, and running in lightning fast circles round a tiny building.
Some people seem to have tested it. There was one tank in particular that took the exact same route every time he was near death. It involved going up to the hackterm at the top of the ramp at sieger, and then running along the rim of the ramp down, and then back around again and again. Each time he looked like he was warping through the wall.
It only seems to be Tanks and Monks that I see clipping. Probably because both can afford to put a lot if not all points in Dex under AGL.you don't think maybe it has something to do with the fact these are the two classes who don't have a stealth tool? cause i got accused of clip whoring to fuck recently on my pistol tank..
let me just explain this to you simply.. if someone feels they are about to die on a spy or pe, they get their little tool out and turn near-god-mode on, and the procede to run into the shop/hackroom/ug and hide behind walls, the result on other people's screen is a stealth cloud that runs off then suddenly disapears (yes stealth clouds DO clip)
now let's see what happens on a hc tank, you realise you're about to go down, so you put your weapon away (which everyone knows slows you down clientside) and try to run into a shop/hackroom/ug and hide behind walls.. the only difference is people can see you clearly and will be more inclined to follow you, so you can't stay in the hackroom or wherever, so you jump over a wall and run away to another place to try and heal up...
now i'm sure a few of you will think (yeah i do that), sorry but you're clipping like fuck on anyone else's screen and if you don't think that you're pretty dense kthx :p
Ahh, so when I am about to die I should stand still with my weapon out? Its quite a shock to me that people want to run away. When I am about to die I run away and run around buildings. Reason: usually, bullets don't shoot through walls.this is pretty much the thoughts of anyone who does casual clipping and it's completely logical, but cause of the games poor netcode anyone else would think you're intentionally cheating.. fact is, if the netcode was perfect, they would still be harder to hit because they are taking cover.
personally (despite HATING it with a passion before) the best fix for this would be to bring para back, but unlike krinahk's suggestion which would lead to the same paraspam shit we had before, why not try and kill two birds with one stone, APUs are underpowered at the moment, and very easy to kill.. so why not turn the holy frostation back into a holy para, make it last a max of 5-10 seconds (as the 30 or whatever before was a joke) also don't fuck up the sensitivity on the players mouse cause that's extremely frustrating from a players point of view (the slow movement is enough), make it need something like 300 mana so it can't be spammed at all (also no lower TL versions that need less mana and could be spammed, holy para only)
now there is another kind of clipping all together which gets confused with what i'd term "casual clipping" and that's when a player is intentionally doing what i term as "doing the fatale" and should be a banable offence, a good example is when a player stays inside the hackterm (which really needs to be made a solid entity) and runs around the small solid part of the hackterm where people can't see them, or the other favourite, continually running around a small object, eg: the ug entrance, the middle post in factory hackterms, or just a nice big tree.
this in my opinion should be delt with a swift 3 day ban and a perma ban if continued
edit/ oh and a runspeed cap won't do shit, i've seen people clip who've claimed they were walking on their client, the netcode really is _that_ bad ;)
There's a difference between running around to avoid being hit, and running in lightning fast circles round a tiny building.
Some people seem to have tested it. There was one tank in particular that took the exact same route every time he was near death. It involved going up to the hackterm at the top of the ramp at sieger, and then running along the rim of the ramp down, and then back around again and again. Each time he looked like he was warping through the wall.
I have seen this. There is a HUGE differance between this kind of clipping and normal clipping. If you are running around to take cover and you start warping around I don't really care. It happens, its bad netcode, there is nothing the person can do. When you take a rout that would not be smart if there was normal netcode just to abuse clipping, thats just not cool.
just aoe the cliphoes. problem solved
how about if the clipping cant be fixed, just redo op scenarios to nicer platforms. would be much nicer. no rams or pillars everywhere. ...
thats a good start! And make all UGs flat as well.
Doc Holliday
19-12-07, 21:08
agreed with hog on this. lots of people do it blatantly running around small items in the game ugs/trees/hackterms etc. thats pretty pathetic. if your gonna die run off sure its tactical. but doing that deliberately and continually like a few people did last night at an op fight is blatantly obvious and utter bollocks. but they still lost.
SO to that i just say LOL.
let me just explain this to you simply.. if someone feels they are about to die on a spy or pe, they get their little tool out and turn near-god-mode on, and the procede to run into the shop/hackroom/ug and hide behind walls, the result on other people's screen is a stealth cloud that runs off then suddenly disapears (yes stealth clouds DO clip)
Using Stealth isn't near-God mode as you put it isn't in the slightest bit comparable to clipping. For a start, there are several ways to hit a Spy or PE even whilst in stealth and also several ways to track them too. However, if you're not very familiar with these methods I'd suggest you go talk to a pro because I'm going to list them here. Secondly clipping isn't intentional, but stealth is. In fact the only thing you've stated which is comparable about the two is that the stealth cloud clips.
why do i feel you're somehow missing the point Okran.. stealth IS near-god mode, you cannot target them with standard weapons, the only way to do damage is by AoE, unless they were stacked with DoT damage before.. also i have no problem tracking them (even without db) untill they disapear clipping-style and i wasn't even trying to compare it to clipping, i was pointing out it's harder to notice the clipping on stealth clouds, but it still happens...
they are compareable because they're both what people do to take cover, clipping is unintentional, but on the players screen, be them spy, pe, monk or tank, they are all doing the same thing which is running to hide behind an object to take cover (in stealth or not)
so to say only tanks and monks clip is dence and showing a lack of understanding of the game.
Doc Holliday
19-12-07, 22:09
what terraman said.
It cannot be truly fixed. The only way to fix this issue, among some others, would be with a complete new engine, and that's basically making a whole new game. That simply won't happen. They don't have the funds to do it.
The reason it has gotten worse over time, is because the engine as a whole is more complicated now, handling more than was ever intended. In the beginning, much more of what we did stayed client-side. People exploited this, and more and more checks had to be put in place, almost everything is a client-server-client communication now. The engine wasn't designed for that, it's not fast enough for all the situations NC demands while still round-tripping everything pertinent.
We've always had clipping, because the movement round-tripping isn't fast enough, nor accurate enough. It wasn't as much of a problem before, though, because I believe LOS and hit detection was done on the client-side, whereas that's now round-tripped as well. I think it used to be if you saw yourself shoot someone on your screen, you would communicate to the server that you hit that person, and the server would reduce their health. Nowadays, if you see yourself shoot someone on your screen, you would communicate to the server you shot them, and the server would do a few checks to determine if it were possible before reducing any health. If the other person happens to be running around obstacles, it will likely fail when it didn't before, as the server determines in a lagged sense that you couldn't have hit the person because of that tree.
how about we all just live with it and flame ingame. Its been around about a year for now. what points theres a point to argue it here. we might get a fix for it but yea lets wait for it. lets just play and and whine, moan and die. Untill then. nuff more to say
Mighty Max
19-12-07, 22:36
It cannot be truly fixed. The only way to fix this issue, among some others, would be with a complete new engine, and that's basically making a whole new game.
This is not completely right.
It can be truely fixed, by applying a method to calculate the path the runner took under the premise that he can not walk through walls. This might be done finding a path via dijkstra on a grid layed into accessible (marked non solid) bsp leafs.
The way a runner took between two points yould then be interpolated on the shortest path instead of the current linear interpolation along the position difference vector (which might intersect solid bsp areas)
Since i know that this is indeed a lot of work to invest here, which might be better used for other things (the clipping problematic can be solved by the players too!) ... maybe some of us players can help here .... *goes off, testing something*
This is not completely right.
It can be truely fixed, by applying a method to calculate the path the runner took under the premise that he can not walk through walls. This might be done finding a path via dijkstra on a grid layed into accessible (marked non solid) bsp leafs.
The way a runner took between two points yould then be interpolated on the shortest path instead of the current linear interpolation along the position difference vector (which might intersect solid bsp areas)
Since i know that this is indeed a lot of work to invest here, which might be better used for other things (the clipping problematic can be solved by the players too!) ... maybe some of us players can help here .... *goes off, testing something*
It still doesn't solve everything.
Look at when all the fighting took place in PP1 - the clipping there is actually pretty good, but lag issues meant that running around and around objects is still a good way to avoid getting hit.
Mighty Max
19-12-07, 23:43
Well as long as they keep beeing targetable, they are killable thus problem solved.
The remaining advantage would only be the advantage of cover, which is ... well normal.
Well as long as they keep beeing targetable, they are killable thus problem solved.
The remaining advantage would only be the advantage of cover, which is ... well normal.
Nope.
Look at it this way. You can only shoot at somebody who you can currently see, due to Neocron's rather odd way of dealing with weapons fire. However, as a result of lag issues, you see them around the corner from where they actually are. So while you are able to aim and target them, when you shoot the server performs a quick line-of-fire check, sees that in reality, there is a wall between you and them, and denies the hit. There's no real way of overcoming this one without seriously taking apart neocron and making it handle movement and weapons in a sensible way.
Mighty Max
19-12-07, 23:52
CMaster, this is not an attempt to fix lag.
That there is a difference between serverstate and clientstate is normal and even observable in top notch FPS games.
As said, the problem of CLIPPING can be solved. I was not talking about getting a better overall sync as i have - just like you - not the information where the server bottlenecks.
I am merely trying to point out that a lot of the problems people attribute to "clipping" are in fact of another origin. Of course, when somebody dissapears into a hill running up it, thats pretty shoddy clipping.
Mighty Max
20-12-07, 00:38
a lot of the problems people attribute to "clipping" are in fact of another origin.
There is no other origin of clipping then the situation that positions the character into a wall.
Sure lag has an impact on the degree of clipping, but it is not it's origin. It's just an influencing factor.
There is no other origin of clipping then the situation that positions the character into a wall.
Sure lag has an impact on the degree of clipping, but it is not it's origin. It's just an influencing factor.
You misunderstand me. Of course that is poor clipping, but a lot of the difficulties in actually damaging people who run around objects come from other sources than the fact that they don't clip.
why do i feel you're somehow missing the point Okran.. stealth IS near-god mode, you cannot target them with standard weapons, the only way to do damage is by AoE, unless they were stacked with DoT damage before.. also i have no problem tracking them (even without db) untill they disapear clipping-style and i wasn't even trying to compare it to clipping, i was pointing out it's harder to notice the clipping on stealth clouds, but it still happens...
they are compareable because they're both what people do to take cover, clipping is unintentional, but on the players screen, be them spy, pe, monk or tank, they are all doing the same thing which is running to hide behind an object to take cover (in stealth or not)
so to say only tanks and monks clip is dence and showing a lack of understanding of the game.
I misunderstood, I thought were comparing them. Not sure why you brought it up though if you're not. Anyways, I can see what you're saying by stating that both are used to basically avoid being hit and consequently killed.
Still, the fact remains that stealth in intentional and clipping is not.
Still, the fact remains that stealth in intentional and clipping can be unintentional.
Fixed
William Antrim
20-12-07, 16:57
Clipping sucks. Aoe is the only real way to fight it. You can however beat it which is good. What REALLY irritates me is the people who hit the stealth as soon as you point a weapon at them. I still think that there should be a minimum time lapse in between 2 bursts of stealth.
Mighty Max
20-12-07, 17:10
Getting out of sight is the purpose of stealth.
If you can't catch him, bad luck.
On the next try, chose someone else.
You dare speaking about clipping without me? Shame...
I won't start talking about skills and such, since I have said these already.
However an easy fix to clipper, much like Krinahk said is indeed the return or para. But not the paraglue. Just a para that will decrease speed by 20%-25%, and you got the speedcap you all want. And para should only be used by apus, and guns. Not the ppus. And same for all. Not 35% for monks and 5% for the backup pistol.
Doc Holliday
20-12-07, 22:01
Agree'd
After fighting today, the tanks we was fighting, actually stopped put there weapon away, and ran in circles around the hack term until they was 50%> hp...
all of them.
Also, for the record it was Terrarist-Bucaners w/e it was spelt... There new clan
get it right. body count is not terrarists or buccanneos.
Its a new clan not related to that clan save for the fact some of the old members were in terrarists.
They were also in several other clans from saturn and uranus waaaaaaaaaaaaay back in nc1 so dont try and float accusations like that. we all know what happened to the aforementioned.
and for the record not one of our guys intentionally clip. we arent that pathetic and we just like a good fight win or lose.
@ jini. i think it would be advisable that you dont go off on a jini rant like you have been and stick to being constructive in the thread mate. it does u no favours or anyone else who gets inflamed (no pun intended) because of it.
and no way in hell should u bring back para. it took long enough to get rid. para is not the fix for clipping so dont cry for it. think of something else.
I misunderstood, I thought were comparing them. Not sure why you brought it up though if you're not. Anyways, I can see what you're saying by stating that both are used to basically avoid being hit and consequently killed.
Still, the fact remains that stealth in intentional and clipping is not.i was trying to show tanks and monks are being denied their way of escaping from the battle because people just see it as intentionally clipping and cheating..
But not the paraglue. Just a para that will decrease speed by 20%-25%as much as i HATED para with a passion a 20-25% decrease wouldn't be enough to stop clipping, it should be at least 50% just as long as it doesn't last too long (maybe even 5 seconds would be enough)
[QUOTE=Doc Holliday]get it right. body count is not terrarists or buccanneos.
Its a new clan not related to that clan save for the fact some of the old members were in terrarists.
They were also in several other clans from saturn and uranus waaaaaaaaaaaaay back in nc1 so dont try and float accusations like that. we all know what happened to the aforementioned.
and for the record not one of our guys intentionally clip. we arent that pathetic and we just like a good fight win or lose.
QUOTE]
I believe he was referring to the Scat clan m8. We have no problems with BodyCount.
...Just a para that will decrease speed by 20%-25%, and you got the speedcap you all want. And para should only be used by apus, and guns. Not the ppus. And same for all. Not 35% for monks and 5% for the backup pistol.
Interesting idea. That could def. be a solution. But you know jini...if para comes back people will FREAK OUT lol. Maybe para could be like you said...and it could also not affect the rate at which ur character turns (for lack of better terms). Just run speed. I cant remember exactly what it was like in the past..i think it made u turn slow as well as run slow. It should also last about 2-4 seconds.
Apocalypsox
21-12-07, 08:42
Clipping sucks. Aoe is the only real way to fight it. You can however beat it which is good. What REALLY irritates me is the people who hit the stealth as soon as you point a weapon at them. I still think that there should be a minimum time lapse in between 2 bursts of stealth.
Dont think of it that way. Think of it like this. When they are in stealth, count your blessings. They cant shoot you!
Paraglue (aka holypara), was a thing that glued you to ground for 30s. By gluing it meant that you were losing your ability to move for something like 90%. You were moving slower than walking! It also hit mouse turn acceleration as well.
We can get para back for the fun of it, give it to apus, to give them a weapon they needed and make it last 30s. To guns that give stacks, make stacks last say 5 s the stack. The rest only 15s
edit: Hog, Para is already in game. It never left us. They just nerf it so much that much like the Holy DB is now a useless thing that reminds the past. I can't tell the actual numbers -only KK can illuminate us here- but i would guess para now does something from 1% to 5% of what it used to do. Para could be fun, but its also dangerous territory. Best thing would be for people -like you know who- to stop clipping on purpose (its not bodycounts. Bodycounts try for a clip free clan title :p)
Paraglue (aka holypara), was a thing that glued you to ground for 30s. By gluing it meant that you were losing your ability to move for something like 90%. You were moving slower than walking! It also hit mouse turn acceleration as well.
We can get para back for the fun of it, give it to apus, to give them a weapon they needed and make it last 30s. To guns that give stacks, make stacks last say 5 s the stack. The rest only 15s
No no no no no no.
Why the HELL would you bring back Para???
This isn't a go at you Jini, I just hate the idea of para.
Fact - Para takes the skill out of the game. :rolleyes:
Doc Holliday
22-12-07, 15:35
(its not bodycounts. Bodycounts try for a clip free clan title :p)
back after your short vacation and your already having a shot arent you.
Simply grow up.
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