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SnowCrash
01-08-07, 16:41
1. Central idea of the balancing project
The original central idea of the balancing project “Neocron Evolution 2.2” has been, among other things, to make the Player vs. Environment combat more sophisticated and exciting. Before Evolution 2.2, it was possible to easily mow down lots of monsters and NPCs. For this reason we have focused our design considerations for the PvE combat on more team based monsters and NPCs, especially for the higher combat ranks. The previously mentioned adjustment screws have been implemented to easily scale the factors that influence the PvE combat.

We were been aware of the fact that it would require a certain flexibility to adjust to these changes, especially for long-established players. Therefore we have tried to make these adjustments as transparent as possible during the balancing project by discussing all matters intensively with the community in the balancing forum.

2. Current situation
Though, the feedback of the community from the forum shows that many players are not satisfied with the current situation of the PvE combat.

The main points of criticism thereby are:

The possibility to fight against high level monsters/NPCs as solo player is strongly hindered or in some cases no longer possible.
The effort to fight a monster/NPC, e.g. sourcing of ammunition, decaying armor, necessary support by other players, is not proportional to the expected rewards, thus the monster/NPC loot or money reward.Generally, it can be said that many players wish back the possibility to hunt solo without being dependant on support by other players.

3. Optimisation of the Player vs. Environment combat
In several meetings we have intensively discussed the pros and cons of an optimisation of the PvE combat and have decided to undertake some optimisations. Concerning this matter we also wish to receive additional constructive feedback from the community about the planned optimisations, as the players are those who have to play the game and live with the adjustments.

Initially we will explain in which frame these optimisations are possible without the requirement of higher coding effort. Thereby the previously mentioned adjustment screws come into play.

3.1 Optimisation of the monster/NPC strength
The scaling of the monster/NPC strength is equated based on the monsters/NPCs combat rank.

Combatrank group
Level 1-31 (e.g. Lizards, Spider, Snakes, Roaches, etc..)
Level 32-63 (e.g. Spiderbots, Hurler, Aggressor, etc..)
Level 64-95 (e.g. Warbot, Leaper, Mauler, Hover bomber, etc.)
Level 96-128 (e.g. Blood Viper King, Genotoxic Nightmare, Grim Chaser, etc.)Variable factors are:
Health
Armor
DamageConcerning this matter we have some questions for your that we can use as orientation for the final optimisations.

Question 1: Which combat rank groups should be able to be soloed.

Question 2: From what rank on should player teams be required to master monsters/npcs?

3.2 Optimisation of the monster/NPC loot
At this point we also use the equation of monsters/npcs in combat rank groups for easy understanding.

Combatrank groups
Level 1-31 (e.g. Lizards, Spider, Snakes, Roaches, etc..)
Level 32-63 (e.g. Spiderbots, Hurler, Aggressor, etc..)
Level 64-95 (e.g. Warbot, Leaper, Mauler, Hover bomber, usw.)
Level 96-128 (e.g. Blood Viper King, Genotoxic Nightmare, Grim Chaser, etc.)Variable factors are:
Item Drop (items like resources, construction parts, weapons and other loot)
Money Reward (amount received after the elimination of a monster/npc)Concerning this matter we also have some questions for you for further orientation.

Question 1: What combat rank should drop what kind of loot in your opinion?

Question 2: How high should be the amount for the elimination of monsters/npcs

Question 3: Are there any items you would like to see as loot drop that are not being dropped yet?

4. Participation at the discussion
In the past we made a big point to involve the community in our design considerations. We would like to continue this tradition but clearly point out that any non constructive posts, flaming or spam will be deleted without prior warning. Every player can take part at the discussion in a constructive way and so contribute to further development of the game. Please bear your answers directly to the questions above to allow us an optimal collection and preparation of your feedback.

aKe`cj
01-08-07, 17:25
First of all, a big middle-finger for deleting my initial post.. it takes time to edit in arguments :p

----
meh post:

First of all, a big

<3

for finally approaching this issue.


Combatrank group
Level 1-31 (e.g. Lizards, Spider, Snakes, Roaches, etc..)
remove armor
Level 32-63 (e.g. Spiderbots, Hurler, Aggressor, etc..)
lower armor, tone down damage
Level 64-95 (e.g. Warbot, Leaper, Mauler, Hover bomber, usw.)
lower armor, reduce damage
Level 96-128 (e.g. Blood Viper King, Genotoxic Nightmare, Grim Chaser, etc.)
They're ment to be nasty, keep em that way :)


Question 1: Which combat rank groups should be able to be soloed.
Each and every mob below rank 80 or 90 should remain viable for solo hunting imo. The gap between the groups is a little too high: 1-25, 26-50, 51-90, 91-128 would be better meh thinks.

Question 2: From what rank on should player teams be required to master monsters/npcs?
91++


Question 3: Are there any items you would like to see as loot drop that are not being dropped yet

I would like to see trophy and epic drops being independend from combat-rank.

dezuzi
01-08-07, 17:30
Question 2: How high should be the amount for the elimination of monsters/npcs
The only way lowering health off monsters/npc's whitout greatly unbalancing neocron (in my opinion) more, would be to modify drones since they already have a great advantage over mobs.
Drones would either need to have their damage decreased, or firing speed slowed down.

The time it takes to down a mob right now is just "boring".
Let's face it, most people play this game because of the pvp and neocron has a great pvp system and most people cant be bothered to level on extremely hard to kill mobs when they wish to pvp instead!


Question 3: Are there any items you would like to see as loot drop that are not being dropped yet?
Ancient launcher connectors, text cubes are nice and they can be a good part of the game if used well and it really adds up to the role-play element.
Even though not everybody enjoys roleplaying as much as other people it's still important to have those "little things" in a game.

However, if this would to cause any extreme cases of lag then ofcourse the answer to that would be "Never mind then"

Also
It would be nice if old drugs that are taken out of the game would be brought back into the game, maybe even adding more types of drugs.

Selendor
01-08-07, 18:09
I'll pre-empt this with a cheeky remark that PvP balance is currently more important than PvE balance, and move swiftly on.

For me there are a spread of high level mobs in the game which serve no advantage to fight, and merely make the game frustrating for people trying to get around the wastelands. There are for instance certain zones that if you crash going into you will certainly be dead when you log in, because they are in the center of the zone (Hoverbombers for instance).

So if its technically possible I would emplore someone to go zone by zone and stop mobs spawning in the dead center of zones (I asked for this in Neocron 1 though...). It should be possible to escape the most powerful mobs if you are just passing through.


To answer your specific questions-

3.1. - I actually think this balance is okay at the moment, you can, with care, solo Grim firemobs etc, but only with specific weapons.

3.2 - My main remark about loot is that if it is not worth the encumberence to bring it back to sell, then should it be dropping at all?

I think that each banded rank of mob should be dropping equivalent implants, weapons (decent quality!) and armour every so often that players can use. It would also be nice if you could apply the same kind of ratio used for WoC disks to the lowest mobs, so that occasionally a newbie player will acquire a really nice rare item or drug he can sell to high level players. Is this possible?

I would also like to append this with a request that GMs should be able to go around the wastes and spawn rare mobs when they are done answering tickets, just to make the game world more unpredictable. I remember when the Kamikaze DoY mobs were appearing on the map it made the wastelands alive for people. I don't know if this is possible anymore with the spawn rules.

Dribble Joy
01-08-07, 18:42
I don't have much of an issue with the current system in principle.
Ie. that mobs higher than the level of a player are not really intended for solo PvE. In many respects it makes sense.

However.

Hunting mobs at or just above player level (60-70) is of little or no worth. The cash rewards are small, the drops are useless, the xp is terrible and they are not in sufficient concentration in the WL or elsewhere to make them viable hunting fodder for solo players.

The next problem is the higher level mobs. Even for teams, the damage they do is just too high. Imagine the Ceres labs without the safe spots, or if the regant mob's attacks were ranged.


The tech part drop rate needs to not just dependant on mob level, but also on mob type.

Warbots, long the staple of solo PvE (and I see no reason to change this) if they were to be dropped to level 65-70 should still drop them on a regular basis. The same should be true of doomreapers and the other mid-high fire-mobs.
Regant mobs should drop a lot less of them (I collected 29 there today).
Back in the day, only the 'boss' of each cave dropped tech parts, scorpion queen, bloodviper, bat queen etc.
Restricting tech part drops to dungeon bosses or only the top level mob in them (Eg. the lvl 90 scorpions, lvl 100 snakes and the regant crawlers) would help reduce the utter whoring of these areas.

The dmg/level of mobs should increase a lot less after about level 50 than it does now.
Cash reward and xp gain after level 50 should be increased considerably (and again possibly made dependable on things other than mob level, regants for example is far too easy for the xp gain).

Vehicle PvE damage should be increased significantly too.

Missions should also be brought into greater play and reworked completely.
Faction missions should be dependant on location (CM having fire mob missions is a bit odd despite them being on the wrong side of the map). The hard and very hard mission should give out much higher xp and cash rewards.

Other possibilities:
Remove cash rewards for mob kills. Focus more on loot. This would give people more of a reason to seriously consider transport and make vehicles more viable and means of getting around. Allbuyer prices would have to increase a bit though.
'Endless' missions. Missions that add a cash and xp bonus for each kill, rather than after a number of kills has been completed. Would allow some of the classes to gain xp in skills they cannot normally when hunting a specific mob. Only applicable to WL mobs, as this would give an incentive to do something other than hit the caves.

Matanius
01-08-07, 18:42
I would also like to append this with a request that GMs should be able to go around the wastes and spawn rare mobs when they are done answering tickets, just to make the game world more unpredictable. I remember when the Kamikaze DoY mobs were appearing on the map it made the wastelands alive for people. I don't know if this is possible anymore with the spawn rules. That would be fooking brilliant IMO.

Back on topic, so pleased you are finally doing something about this. I won't go into asking why the hell it took so long, tis not constructive and I'm sure you have your reasons.

Tbh, I pretty much agree with what has been posted here already by people; anything up to CR level 80-90 should be soloable to some extent, anything above that should need teams. Personally not to bothered about item drops, I haven't tried levelling a new dude for ages now and never really loot mobs anymore so I couldn't comment on what needs changing. Sorting out the tech parts drop-rate on some of the mobs (regants/ceres) also needs doing tbh.

Oh yeah, I'm sure this will get fixed in the process, but please sort out the bloody spiderbots!!!! :p

Dribble Joy
01-08-07, 18:45
Oh yeah, I'm sure this will get fixed in the process, but please sort out the bloody spiderbots!!!! :p
I dunno why people complain about them... I don't take much dmg from them at all......

Zheo
01-08-07, 19:09
Combatrank group
Level 1-31 (e.g. Lizards, Spider, Snakes, Roaches, etc..)
Level 32-63 (e.g. Spiderbots, Hurler, Aggressor, etc..)
Level 64-95 (e.g. Warbot, Leaper, Mauler, Hover bomber, etc.)
Level 96-128 (e.g. Blood Viper King, Genotoxic Nightmare, Grim Chaser, etc.)Variable factors are:
Health
Armor
DamageConcerning this matter we have some questions for your that we can use as orientation for the final optimisations.
[QUOTE=SnowCrash]
Question 1: Which combat rank groups should be able to be soloed.

Levels 1-31 Should be easy to do solo, in other words not much of a challange.

Levels 32-63 Should be slightly harder meaning players should have to fall back and heal while soloing a group of aggressors etc.

Levels 64-95 Should be solo-able but very hard requiring you to fall back and heal mutlipul times or team up/use a vehicle.

Levels 96-128 Should be impossible solo, you should need a team to kill them.



Question 2: From what rank on should player teams be required to master monsters/npcs?

96+ As stated above I think below that it should be hard requiring a high level player using rares or vehicles for ranks 64-95, a team mate would make it easier, and a whole team would make it easy. Remember that it is hard to find a team sometimes, and by making mobs to hard to kill, you leave players to kill mobs that are too easy and boring to kill or to quit trying!



3.2 Optimisation of the monster/NPC loot
At this point we also use the equation of monsters/npcs in combat rank groups for easy understanding.

Combatrank groups
Level 1-31 (e.g. Lizards, Spider, Snakes, Roaches, etc..)
Level 32-63 (e.g. Spiderbots, Hurler, Aggressor, etc..)
Level 64-95 (e.g. Warbot, Leaper, Mauler, Hover bomber, usw.)
Level 96-128 (e.g. Blood Viper King, Genotoxic Nightmare, Grim Chaser, etc.)Variable factors are:
Item Drop (items like resources, construction parts, weapons and other loot)
Money Reward (amount received after the elimination of a monster/npc)Concerning this matter we also have some questions for you for further orientation.




Question 1: What combat rank should drop what kind of loot in your opinion?
Low level mobs, Level 1-31 should drop junk such as wood, wire junk, metal plates/pipes, glass, meat, booze and food, low level weapons (from mobs like mutants) and ammo. So a mutant would drop ammo sometimes weapons, food/booze, bones low level implants etc. Robots should drop metal plates, hydroics, glass, wire junk, computer junk etc etc. Plants should drop wood, maybe something they've eaten like bones? Dogs and rats should drop meat etc. Mutants should also drop med kits and maybe even regen nanites. Weapon mods too.

Level 32-63 should drop average junk like large hydroics, motors, hardware os, robots should drop weapons, vehicle/vehicle comp or armour parts (low level 1-7) Maybe weapon parts. Weapon mods, metal plates, ammo etc etc.

Level 64-95 should drop good loot, like slotted shop weapons with average stats, ammo, maybe even bit of armour that is left intact, large hydrolics, morots, hardware. Vehicle/Vehicle comp and armour parts. Above rank 80/80 should have a chance of dropping rare parts.

Level 96-128 should drop high level weapons with goodish stats around 80%, and slotted, ammo, large hydrolics/entrails etc etc (the kind that mobs drop now. Rank 100+ should drop at least one rare. Rank 115+ should have a chance of dropping rare mods like ultimas, and have a chance of dropping more rares. Vehicle/Vehicle Comp, Armour, Weapon parts 8-10. should be dropping from these. Perhaps create a new set of weapon mods that add in a little more say +18-22% damage and +16-18% Range barrels, though the barrels could not be used WITH a normal barrel (one or the other),



Question 2: How high should be the amount for the elimination of monsters/npcs
Level 1-31 Low time a few shots from the right weapon should drop them.
Level 32-63 A little longer a few extra shots.
Level 64-95 An average amout of time, a full clip or more from the right gun.
Level 96-128 These guys should take a couple of clips to maybe four to bring down from the right weapon or so, a tough nut to crach but the rewards should be worth it.


Question 3: Are there any items you would like to see as loot drop that are not being dropped yet?
Vehicle component parts, and Vehicle parts, alot of different shop weapons, ammo, armour, new weapon mods (as mentioned above). More trophies :p

Also I think the amount of cash should be increased and the scale should be too something like Rank x100-200nc Or something like that at the money "cap" level before it drops off due to combat rank. Also I think trophies should drop whatever rank the player is!

Ok since I/We have answered you questions perhaps you could answer some of mine?

1] Are there currently any plans to review weapons specifically burst weapons, and rifles in general compaired with other weapons? Perhaps the woc weapons as well? As it stands pistols have three? WOC weapons ALL single shot which as the community has stated tirelessly ARE MORE POWERFUL THAN BURST! Freeman and Xbow are complained about alot as well as ion cannons and creed.

2] Will apus and maybe melee ever be fixed, as far as I know they are under powered.

3] Will hybrids ever be possible again?

4] Will vehicle bugs - warped off your vehicle into another sector, having broken legs after zoning, vehicle disappearing, and having your stamina/health drain like your in water.

Dribble Joy
01-08-07, 19:15
2] Will apus and maybe melee ever be fixed, as far as I know they are under powered.
APU isn't that bad, it's just the beam/single shot stuff is so much better.

Zheo
01-08-07, 19:24
APU isn't that bad, it's just the beam/single shot stuff is so much better.

So either make everything else better OR lower single/beam right?

lear
01-08-07, 20:09
""The main points of criticism thereby are:
The possibility to fight against high level monsters/NPCs as solo player is strongly hindered or in some cases no longer possible.
The effort to fight a monster/NPC, e.g. sourcing of ammunition, decaying armor, necessary support by other players, is not proportional to the expected rewards, thus the monster/NPC loot or money reward.""

I believe that higher level mobs 100+ , if you consider the rank compared to runners, should not be soloable.... but... trying to find a partner for some, especially new runners may be hard and even irrritating with the population on the servers.. So I am going to have to say that my opinion is they need to be soloable in some scale. Certain places like chaos cave, ceres lab, etc is understandable due to its rewards, but a simple grim chaser, warbot, etc should definately be soloable.
As far as money and rewards I do not see any adjustment being made other than "different" kind of drops added to mobs from all levels... For example... even little stuff that trade skillers can use, things that are useful and can help save money, or "farm" items that may be possible to get instead of having to buy them. For instance... All trade 'grease' " lube" , drugs of all sorts... higher level implants drops 'non rare' of course. Also, for all mob ranks, there should be a possibility of a full gun to drop, so that people can get it without having to purchase it here and there...of course with low % stats, or hell, even random stats. TL would depend on mob of course... I'm just listing some to give people ideas of what should be added, Please do add.... I see the current PVE drop as being BLAND, boring and repetitive... Just my opinion though. Wouldn't you like to be able to go to any zone and actually see a suprise in killing a mob? Not just have to go to a certain zone for it... (not saying WOC or mc5 chip=P) Those actually make sense being in their seperate zones.

I believe this would put out a higher rate of runners to actually want to hunt, or make it more enjoyable and worthwhile, instead of 'whoring' out the same zone as every other runner out there.
I can go on, but I need to get back into the game and finish what I was doing... :)

Ru-Just-RU
01-08-07, 20:49
Okay, first of all - answering Thread:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
RE: 3.1:
Level 1-31 - No changes at all; it`s seems OK now;
Level 32-63 - HARD rework needed! must be lower armor and dmg;
Level 64-95 - just reduce dmg and a litle reduce armor;
Level 96-128 - seems OK, but litle Armor and DMG reduce - would be fine;

RE: Q.1:

soloed must be groups 1-95;

RE:Q.2:

as logicaly from [RE: Q.1] - groups from 96-128;
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
RE: 3.2:
RE: Q.1:
Level 1-31 - All kind of ALL LvL-1 implants; Low LvL Junk; Sometimes Weapon TL 1 -31; Trophys;

Level 32-63 - All Kind of ALL LvL-2 implants; Midle LvL Junk;
Sometimes Weapon TL 32-63; Trophys;

Level 64-95 - Valueable Junk (like A8-10 ) + Mid LvL Junk;
Sometimes Weapon TL 64-95 (excluding Rares); Trophys;

Level 96-128 - Only Highest LvL Junk; Tech parts; Trophys(?)

RE: Q.2:
Edited: (sorry, was Wrong understandion of question :P)

1-31 : one Clip is pretty enought (from right weapon);
32-63 : 2-3 Clips from right weapon;
64-95 : 4-5 Clips
96-128: 5-8 clips


RE: Q.3:
PLZ! increase Trophy Drop Rate on all Groups; (but keep shockingly low for few ones from MasterHunter Trophys....)
about weapon Drop: must be at least 80% all stats (not less i mean) with random slots....
Also: a litle chance of Ulti`s drop rate on 96-128 Group;
nice Drugs (maybe NEW?!??) would be also fine;
and Last one: Would be nice to see slotenhancers, like that: 32-63 group: Slot enhancer; 64-95 group: Expiremental; 96-128: Illegal;
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

That`s my point of view

and plz Let me add some more words:

PLZ make a MELEE combat Optimization:
Increase DMG by 2 and Add Stack Effects to HIend rares like Paw Of Bear(Poison Stacks) and Devil`s Grace (X-ray stacks)
Thx

IceStorm
02-08-07, 02:35
Question 1: Which combat rank groups should be able to be soloed.All of them. A completely capped char with all the bells and whistles should be able to solo a top mob and its babies in the game. I'm being singular here - one top mob vs one capped, PvE-oriented character. Obviously, soloing a group of top mobs should be either exceedingly difficult (so as not to be worth the time) or impossible.

Please note that I'm not saying all mobs should be solo'able by all weapons specializations. There should be mobs that lend themselves to hunting depending on combat specialization.
Question 2: From what rank on should player teams be required to master monsters/npcs?Teaming for dungeons or special mobs should be set for the XP halfway mark for level 100 capping chars, so at whatever skill rank you hit ~78.5 million XP in a combat mainstat. I think that's around mainstat level 92.

Question 1: What combat rank should drop what kind of loot in your opinion?I liked the old system. I haven't really dealt with the new system.
Question 2: How high should be the amount for the elimination of monsters/npcsIf you mean the point where they stop dropping/yielding money, 20 levels under current combat rank.
Question 3: Are there any items you would like to see as loot drop that are not being dropped yet?I don't think there's a way to answer this without screwing up item distribution. I'd really like to see Ultimas drop from regular high-rank mobs (Warbots), but that's about all.

Kien
02-08-07, 06:24
My first problem I had seen with PvE when I returned to the game was that warbots were made harder, and apparently dropped less techs. It may not seem like a big deal to KK, but warbot hunting has been one of the main sources of tech hunting for solo players dating back to beta. The part that really doesnt make sense to me is why after deciding that they drop techs too often, you make places where 2 players can make 200+ techs a day in one room, with little effort.

You had one way to get techs that offered different ways to hunt, like vehicles. Rifle/Pistol characters aren't ignored, you did't have to be a mass dmg AoE to get parts. You explored different areas, different zones, different landscapes. Now you sit in a dungeon room, and hold a mouse button down, for 5x more parts.


As for which mobs should be solo'd, and loot questions, just put it back the way it worked for years?

CoreInsanity
02-08-07, 07:48
My first problem I had seen with PvE when I returned to the game was that warbots were made harder, and apparently dropped less techs. It may not seem like a big deal to KK, but warbot hunting has been one of the main sources of tech hunting for solo players dating back to beta. The part that really doesnt make sense to me is why after deciding that they drop techs too often, you make places where 2 players can make 200+ techs a day in one room, with little effort.

You had one way to get techs that offered different ways to hunt, like vehicles. Rifle/Pistol characters aren't ignored, you did't have to be a mass dmg AoE to get parts. You explored different areas, different zones, different landscapes. Now you sit in a dungeon room, and hold a mouse button down, for 5x more parts.


As for which mobs should be solo'd, and loot questions, just put it back the way it worked for years?

I agree, the current system is bull, provided that system includes the mobs current damages. My character is up to a * combat rank, and I still cant solo the damn Core level 2 in Tech haven 3... Thats bullshit tbfh, and frankly I hope its a bug.

Other than mob damages (Which seam to be extremely screwed up right now) - I do not see why the system needs to change (Other than above with the tech hunting stuff).

(edit: Sorry if thats border-line flaming, it just pisses me off that starting a new character requires me to ask a PPU to help me level unless I want to stick with crap way below my combat rank...)

Though, to answer some of the questions:

I think, like some of the other posters I think most of the stuff below 9x / should be able to be soloed. I personally think (If you cant tell already :p) The mob damage should be reduced drastically (I dont care what resistances you have, a bot in Core level 2 should not rip me down to half HP in about 2 hits...), say back to the way it was in classic and all that (Maybe a bit harder on some mobs, but yea, its way to hard right now).

SorkZmok
02-08-07, 10:05
3.1 Optimisation of the monster/NPC strength
The scaling of the monster/NPC strength is equated based on the monsters/NPCs combat rank.

Combatrank group
Level 1-31 (e.g. Lizards, Spider, Snakes, Roaches, etc..)
Level 32-63 (e.g. Spiderbots, Hurler, Aggressor, etc..)
Level 64-95 (e.g. Warbot, Leaper, Mauler, Hover bomber, etc.)
Level 96-128 (e.g. Blood Viper King, Genotoxic Nightmare, Grim Chaser, etc.)
I dunno really. I think the type of mobs should be mixed through the leveling process. Especially because for a noob it gets pretty damn boring if all you ever fight is snakes and roaches and small crap like that. Give them more bigger mobs to fight. Just for the looks.

On mob strength:
1. Lower mob armor. Just about 10% for mobs up to level 31 and about 20% for mobs up to level 64. The rest can stay the way they are.

2. Leave health as it is for all mobs up to level 96, slightly lower high end mob health. Some mobs simply take ages to kill, no matter what weapon you use.

3. Lower mob damage. A LOT. It's the actual pain in the ass-factor. With the rather slow healing now, if you can't stay out of range you will be stuck healing more than actually fighting.
If we could take more damage we could fight more and so drop mobs faster. This would especially help melee and pistol users a lot.


3.2 Optimisation of the monster/NPC loot
At this point we also use the equation of monsters/npcs in combat rank groups for easy understanding.

Combatrank groups[LIST]
Level 1-31 (e.g. Lizards, Spider, Snakes, Roaches, etc..)
Level 32-63 (e.g. Spiderbots, Hurler, Aggressor, etc..)
Level 64-95 (e.g. Warbot, Leaper, Mauler, Hover bomber, usw.)
Level 96-128 (e.g. Blood Viper King, Genotoxic Nightmare, Grim Chaser, etc.)Variable factors are:
Item Drop (items like resources, construction parts, weapons and other loot)
Money Reward (amount received after the elimination of a monster/npc)Concerning this matter we also have some questions for you for further orientation.

Question 1: What combat rank should drop what kind of loot in your opinion?

Question 2: How high should be the amount for the elimination of monsters/npcs

Question 3: Are there any items you would like to see as loot drop that are not being dropped yet?


Let mobs drop random stuff. All mobs. Regardless of the rank. But let the drops level mostly depend on the mobs rank.

So low level mobs would rarely drop low level guns, spells, random armor parts, all that. Make those drops come with 80ish stats so they could be used for leveling or to make BPs.

LOWER RAREPART DROPS. The droprate of the high end mobs is insane. It's probably too late now anyway but it needs to stop.


Oh and nerf AoE. Nerf it hard and nerf it fast. It's way out of the equation. Drones, tanks and APUs got a huge advantage their. And i mean HUGE. If you ever saw a single tank empty the Regant boss room in a matter of just a few minutes, you know what i mean.
Either nerf the overall damage to maybe twice the damage of a normal weapon of the same TL but that damage would be spread to all the mobs in the target area. Or decrease the amount of mobs that get hit simultaneously.
AoE should be a small advantage. Not a way to get money and xp and loot several times faster than any other class.

/edit
And i'm still trying to think of a way to reward group leveling without making solo pve useless. :(

MrWeedster
02-08-07, 10:14
Let mobs drop random stuff. All mobs. Regardless of the rank. But let the drops level mostly depend on the mobs rank.

So low level mobs would rarely drop low level guns, spells, random armor parts, all that. Make those drops come with 80ish stats so they could be used for leveling or to make BPs.

LOWER RAREPART DROPS. The droprate of the high end mobs is insane. It's probably too late now anyway but it needs to stop.


Oh and nerf AoE. Nerf it hard and nerf it fast. It's way out of the equation. Drones, tanks and APUs got a huge advantage their. And i mean HUGE. If you ever saw a single tank empty the Regant boss room in a matter of just a few minutes, you know what i mean.
Either nerf the overall damage to maybe twice the damage of a normal weapon of the same TL but that damage would be spread to all the mobs in the target area. Or decrease the amount of mobs that get hit simultaneously.
AoE should be a small advantage. Not a way to get money and xp and loot several times faster than any other class.


I have to disagree with the first point (Weapon drops). It should be other way around. Let low-lvl mobs drop more lower-end weps, and higher mobs less higher-end weps. Think of the noobs.

Rarepart drop should only be lowered in ceres labs, increased in warbot drops, and sliglty increased in firemobs drops. Ceres labs drops should only be corrected if the 'drones-at-the-ceiling'-bug is fixed, otherwise it would be ok.

AOE is ok imho.


greetz

SorkZmok
02-08-07, 10:25
That's what i meant about drops. Low rank mobs drop lowlevel guns, high end mobs drop highlevel stuff. The droprate should just be rather low.


And have you ever seen the droprate of rares in regants? It's WAY too high for 100+ mobs and a bit too low for mobs ranked 80 to 100.


And AoE is insane. Simple as that. Tanks getting Woc in one night at regants? Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

MrWeedster
02-08-07, 10:45
That's what i meant about drops. Low rank mobs drop lowlevel guns, high end mobs drop highlevel stuff. The droprate should just be rather low.


And have you ever seen the droprate of rares in regants? It's WAY too high for 100+ mobs and a bit too low for mobs ranked 80 to 100.


And AoE is insane. Simple as that. Tanks getting Woc in one night at regants? Yeah, right. :rolleyes:


Ok, but for the low-lvl stuff it should drop better then for high-lvl.


Yes saw it, but u r going there with a team, and if u share rareparts, it means u get lesser. But anyway ur right - Drops are a bit too high.


Well - AOE XP for tanks is too high. Lvling Apu atm. The dmg is nice, but the XP gain is way below tank. So only lower tank-AOE-xp-gain.


greetz

marsbarz
02-08-07, 11:08
First off, I'm excited to see you guys are active with the player base considering some of the things we have to deal with! :lol:

That said, here's my 2 cents:


Question 1: Which combat rank groups should be able to be soloed.
Up to about Rank 98.


Question 2: From what rank on should player teams be required to master monsters/npcs?
That depends. How many of the mobs are we talking about? If there is one Rank 94 then that should be solo-able. If there are 5, then the odds of you requiring a team to take them on should be very likely.


[I]Question 1: What combat rank should drop what kind of loot in your opinion?...
...Question 3: Are there any items you would like to see as loot drop that are not being dropped yet?

I'm going to do a 2-in-1 and talk about my overall position because the questions are similar:

Rares ought to drop on bosses, because it would give a great incentive for people to form parties and hunt them. But it has to be RARE for them to drop- about a %0.75 chance, which increases as your combat rank goes down from 80~.

By the way, I mean Rare weapons/implants should have a chance of dropping but I don't mean remove rare parts and rare construction from the game.

Trophy drops ought to be independent of combat rank, and the chance of drop should be about %0.1


In addition to all the junk mobs usually carry, they should have a small (%1-2) chance of dropping the following:

* Level 1-31

- drugs, boosters

- TL 1-31 armors (usually shit condition) on humanoid mobs only (because that spider can't possibly carry a belt)

- first-aid kits to medkits

- TL 1-31 weapons with random stats/slots on humanoid mobs only
* Level 32-63

- drugs, boosters

- TL 32-63 armors (usually shit condition) (any mob)

- TL 32-63 weapons (any mob)

- small packages of various lubricants

survival kits
* Level 64-95

- drugs, boosters

- TL 64-95 armors (usually shit condition) (any mob)

- TL 64-95 non-rare weapons w/ random stats/slots (any mob)

- rare parts (rank 75+)

- big packages of various lubricants

- survival kits, heal nanites

* Level 96-128 -

- TL 96+ armors & power suits (powersuits much more rare) (no higher than cool condition) Chance to drop lower than 1 in 250

- TL 96+ weapons with random stats/slots, Chance to drop lower than 1 in 100

- Rare weapons with random stats/slots, Chance to drop lower than 1 in 500

- Rare parts, slightly lower chance to drop as the mobs have right now in 2.2

- Special, rare (%0.75 chance), boss-only implants that people would want to use in their setups, for example:

Genotoxic Vertebrae [spine] (Gives poison resists or something)
Warbot Targeting Matrix [eye] (gives a significant amount of weaponlore, probably for tanks only)
Grim Reaper Claws [glove] (gives melee tanks +MC & Dex or Str)
Scorpion Queen Heart [heart, duh] (Gives a good dose of fire resistances, and a nice big con bonus)
Doom Harbinger's Lexicon [brain cpu] (resist force, hlt, hc, str bonuses)
Phoenix CPU Shard [brain cpu] (some kinda mixture of hacking, research, construction, tech combat, or int bonuses)
Maybe a rare barter implant considering the only one available is the Mr. Jones implant...
And other things like that, dropping from 120+, very hard to kill bosses that require teams of 5+. The implants should liven up every kind of profession from tradeskillers to PvE'ers to PvP'ers


The weapon drops should be fitting of the type of mob killed; Acolytes should drop simple psi spells, mutant soldiers drop rifles, mutant warriors flamethrowers, aggressors gatlin guns, swamp warriors bats, etc...
All these special weapon and armor drops should be relatively rare!

I see that most of the time when you add new rare items in the game they're often obtained through quests, I say add items in some cases where they can only be obtained by killing a boss that's too tough to take on alone. Consider how many people gather, for example, to farm the Phoenix boss in hacknet.


Question 2: How high should be the amount for the elimination of monsters/npcs

Rank 96-128 should require 5-15 clips from a very good high tech level weapon respectively, about 1-8 clips from a rare weapon. But this depends, the very "entry level" high-level mobs like a 96 mob should only require say 1 clip from a rare gun, but a 128 should require 8 for SURE. Bosses have to feel tough and challenging, but challenging does not mean one hit knockout! It means having to hide somewhere like a coward healing up, and requiring a teammate to distract the boss, or someone else to heal you, etc..

ashley watts
02-08-07, 12:40
I like marsbarz idea i must admit, just i think the implants from the mobs should have some mojor decreases to a certain skill , or a light impact of a skill depending on its, (+) bonuses.

Dribble Joy
02-08-07, 12:50
I've been asking for boss imps for years, as an extension to the Bat Queen ones.

As to the imp's position in the implant line-up. I think they shouldn't be 'better' than others, but a different choice. Or perhaps do something different.

zii
02-08-07, 12:52
As a capped tank, I have no problem soloing high level mobs with the exception of the poison mobs inside caves so I would not understand any changes to this. However, I can solo Regents on my tank including the boss room. Also, loot drops seem to be fine. I cannot comment on the lower levels nor other classes.

Dribble Joy
02-08-07, 13:25
Sure, capped tank with a rav or creed can kill anything from half a zone away, but an apu, pistoler or melee user can't.

How about this suggestion: Higher dmg for pistols, apu and melee in PvE?

CMaster
02-08-07, 13:57
Ok, for starters "Question 1: Which combat rank groups should be able to be soloed. ". There is no numerical answer to this. Simply up to around the runners combat rank and maybe slightly above. I'm going to dredge up what I ave said before here:


From a theoretical standpoint, if combat rank means anything, then a runner and a mob of the exact same combat rank should be able to go toe to toe and drop dead at exactly the same time. This to me is a desirable target as it makes sense. Of course we have some significant peripheral questions about whether healing rate is involved or what have you.

However for this to actually work, then the penalty for killing NPCs at or below your own rank in terms of XP, cash and loot HAS to go. Seriously, if my PE is CR82 (as he is, and thats for a goddamn lowtecher) then I should be able to take on mobs higher than CR64, in fact CR82 should be quite managable.

So, given that we have set up a world where player CR and mob CR are equivilant and that its actually worth our time to kill an NPC of the same CR, we are making some progress. A player could either take on mobs a few (~5-10) CRs lower one by one while stood dead still, take on groups of much lower CR mobs while stood dead still, or use their intelligence and tactics to be able to take on equivilant and slightly higher (approx 10-15) CR higher mobs one on one. That sounds like a pretty happy situation to me.

Now a balanced team acts as a very effective force multiplier as we know, so said teams can burn through these mobs and take on substantail groups at similar CRs, or small numbers of much higher CR mobs. That is effectivley the basis of our current cave system.

But what we need is to support those who aren't teetering on the edge of cap, and those who are on their own. We need areas that proivde mid-level mobs for solo and low-level teams. We need PvE combat that encourages something approaching tactics and not just a simple matter of trying to outheal. In short, we need mid level "dungeons". Perhaps in the outlier zones of the city and such. Areas rammed with 50-75 mobs, preferably with availble cover to encourage sensible fighting and the ability to control the numbers you deal with at once. Sure, the wastes can provide these things too, but we need to encourage tactics and provide alternatives, as well as having places where 120/120s aren't likley to wander over.

And yes, more worthwhile mob loot! Lets seem some unique drops taht are actually really useful - as nice as they are, Judgement Day Launchers and the like don't get used much, although I suppose Titan chests do. But generalyl more stuff that you have to get from mobs would be nice. (I suppose slot enhancers and ultimas are a nice example of stuff that is genuinley worth hunting). And it would certainly be nice for newbies for whom cash is tight to see things thaey could really use cropping up in loot drops.

Fix regants: its far too easy, and far too good for getting techs. Just go have a look one day. Nobody bothers with anything else these days.

More to come from me in all liklehood.

Oh, and before you fix all this, SORT OUT WEAPON BALANCE! Just spend a while with logs on, and 2 GMs/Devs noting down the damage and you'll soon see the problem.

Ru-Just-RU
02-08-07, 14:01
- Special, rare (%0.75 chance), boss-only implants that people would want to use in their setups, for example:

Genotoxic Vertebrae [spine] (Gives poison resists or something)
Warbot Targeting Matrix [eye] (gives a significant amount of weaponlore, probably for tanks only)
Grim Reaper Claws [glove] (gives melee tanks +MC & Dex or Str)
Scorpion Queen Heart [heart, duh] (Gives a good dose of fire resistances, and a nice big con bonus)
Doom Harbinger's Lexicon [brain cpu] (resist force, hlt, hc, str bonuses)
Phoenix CPU Shard [brain cpu] (some kinda mixture of hacking, research, construction, tech combat, or int bonuses)
Maybe a rare barter implant considering the only one available is the Mr. Jones implant...
And other things like that, dropping from 120+, very hard to kill bosses that require teams of 5+. The implants should liven up every kind of profession from tradeskillers to PvE'ers to PvP'ers


The weapon drops should be fitting of the type of mob killed; Acolytes should drop simple psi spells, mutant soldiers drop rifles, mutant warriors flamethrowers, aggressors gatlin guns, swamp warriors bats, etc...
All these special weapon and armor drops should be relatively rare!



Greatest Idea!! And, btw, if we Talk about PvE- it`s uber cool idea!
but i don`t agree with 0.75% drop rate; in my point of view must be not less then 50% !!!
did you ever try to kill Bat Queen in evo 2.2 ?? or maybe Apparition ?? or Kri'nakh Shaman for example??
it`s almost impossiable in evo 2.2! even with greate team... //was tested today//
i think KK should add some WoC weapon too... for tanks... melee and H-C...
AND plz MAKE Melee OPTIMIZATION

CMaster
02-08-07, 14:17
Greatest Idea!! And, btw, if we Talk about PvE- it`s uber cool idea!
but i don`t agree with 0.75% drop rate; in my point of view must be not less then 50% !!!
did you ever try to kill Bat Queen in evo 2.2 ?? or maybe Apparition ?? or Kri'nakh Shaman for example??
it`s almost impossiable in evo 2.2! even with greate team... //was tested today//
i think KK should add some WoC weapon too... for tanks... melee and H-C...
AND plz MAKE Melee OPTIMIZATION

The apparition isn't too bad actually.
Me, Talon, Duck and erm, some APU went and did it a couple of weeks ago. Dangerous but quite possible.

Tubby
02-08-07, 15:19
Some nice ideas up here, i agree all mobs below 96 should be soloable anythign above should require teams. I like the idea of more useful and unique drops from mobs, it gives a reason for runners to actually hunt mobs you wouldnt ussually hunt. I think caves should need teams to run them, but the avg rank of the mobs in a team determine what amount and rank of team members you require, for example it would be nice to see people running the aggie cellars again but requiring a team of people perhaps with +- 5 lvls off the avg mob lvl. maybe make this range higher for some of the higher caves. Also i think someone has mentioned it maybe you could implement a system where you get an extra 10% exp for killing certain amount of an assigned mob, maybe the master hunters could give you theses assignments aswell, possibly even nice item rewards after you do so many assignments, i think it would help encourage people to lvl in different places.

Torg
02-08-07, 18:57
afaik there's two problems with PvE in 2.2:

1 the high-end dungeons are too easy, if you know how to deal with them. in terms of safe spots, stealthing in, etc.
2 mid-to-high areas are too difficult. killing warbots to get exp, money and techs takes ages. and is stupidly ineffective compared to regants and the likes.

giving a cave-scorpion-like, bullet-type attack to genotoxic sluggers would change a lot. as well as removing techparts from them, leaving that to the queens room and sluggers. same with comparable hi-end-dungeons.

but turning up the difficulty there would leave anybody but overcapped teamsters in the dark. so removing spiderbots and hoppers plus turning up drop rate in warbies and the like should do.

while sewers, city storages and swamps are for beginners, wastes should be for midrange, and dungeons for the capped players. so everything in the wastes should be soloable, while the dungeons should be not.

adding more individual drops, like weapons, drugs and implants, would add greatly to the hunting experience.

ceterum censeo apu and melee being perfectly ok in 2.2.
cyberpunk. you've heard of it.

SorkZmok
02-08-07, 19:58
afaik there's two problems with PvE in 2.2:

1 the high-end dungeons are too easy, if you know how to deal with them. in terms of safe spots, stealthing in, etc.
2 mid-to-high areas are too difficult. killing warbots to get exp, money and techs takes ages. and is stupidly ineffective compared to regants and the likes.

giving a cave-scorpion-like, bullet-type attack to genotoxic sluggers would change a lot. as well as removing techparts from them, leaving that to the queens room and sluggers. same with comparable hi-end-dungeons.

but turning up the difficulty there would leave anybody but overcapped teamsters in the dark. so removing spiderbots and hoppers plus turning up drop rate in warbies and the like should do.

while sewers, city storages and swamps are for beginners, wastes should be for midrange, and dungeons for the capped players. so everything in the wastes should be soloable, while the dungeons should be not.

adding more individual drops, like weapons, drugs and implants, would add greatly to the hunting experience.

ceterum censeo apu and melee being perfectly ok in 2.2.
cyberpunk. you've heard of it.
Sounds pretty neat. I agree with pretty much everything here.

Cities for a start, wastes next and caves for the capped/teamed people.

Veldren
02-08-07, 20:29
I agree, the current system is bull, provided that system includes the mobs current damages. My character is up to a * combat rank, and I still cant solo the damn Core level 2 in Tech haven 3... Thats bullshit tbfh, and frankly I hope its a bug.

I personally think (If you cant tell already :p) The mob damage should be reduced drastically (I dont care what resistances you have, a bot in Core level 2 should not rip me down to half HP in about 2 hits...), say back to the way it was in classic and all that (Maybe a bit harder on some mobs, but yea, its way to hard right now).

He is correct. My capped PE in full armor including level 3 PA gets shredded down in that core of TH if I'm not careful! Warbots... Warbots are the first thing that comes to my mind when I think of NC. As of now, they are awful. Their damage is sick and the tech drop rate doesn't even come close to making up for it. Agressor Captains have killed a countless number of capped or near-capped tanks upon the first weeks of 2.2. I used to START leveling on them!

MC5 has always been that diamond mine goal for tech hunters and PvP'ers trying to polish off their finest fighter. Unfortunately, this makes for painful hunting experiences as it consists of ONE room with a ton of players (relative) wanting to farm that ONE room... My suggestion for this is simply make MC5 more of a laboratory (like lower Regents) that has hallways, rooms, and a few spots where Base Commanders spawn.

The absolute best solution that I could think of for places like BatQueen Cave, Chaos Caves, MC5, Regents (Labs and Legacy), etc. would be to create a system that uses cave instances. Similar to the way World of Warcraft handles that kind of thing. *awaits obnoxious remark of how WoW is for carebears blah blah blah...* Now that your done with that, back to the topic... :D The instance system works very well, IMO. It allows a team to form (or a single runner) and farm as much as they want and there is never a problem with sharing and hording of mobs. Also, smaller instances could also be made for lower level players that involve a boss at the end that varies in strength depending on level of cave or w/e. This boss may or may not also drop a unique weapon or armor type that you can only get from that boss. Missions could also be implemented for these instances that give rewards of varying types on the same dependency.

Now, the concern would be raised, of course, about the drop rate of techs in these instances possibly due to groups constantly farming and so on. Not really a new problem since you can go to Regents and snag a ton of techs in no time already.

Now before anyone scoffs at my suggestion saying that I am just a carebear player who wants my very own place to hunt so I don't get PK'ed while doing so, know that I love PVP and look for it as well. If I hunt, I generally use an LE'ed char to do so. So either way, I get my techs. :D

But it is kind of retarded when a player kills you with their capped tank and Creed and says, "LOLZ I TOTALLY RAPPED YOU!!! U SUCK SO MUCH U NOOB LOLOL!!!" Note that their target that they "rapped" was not even capped or was a low level that was far from it... congrats... :lol:

So yeah, KK, let me know what you think about these suggestions. I have noticed that no GMs have responded to any of these posts... :wtf:

Miss Naughty
02-08-07, 20:53
I've only been playing a little off and on for the last couple of months and I've found that for some classes all the mobs are stupidly easy to kill (HC tank, Rifle PE or Spy) and frustratingly hard to kill (APU / Pistol Spy etc.).

The current system means that to be able to solo anything that is worth fighting (on one of the disadvantaged classes) means that you have to exploit the poor AI / movement speed / range of certain mobs.

For me the problem with pistol / melee and apu classes is the lack of combat options. There aren't any viable tactics that make you want to play that combat class.

APU for instance has no crowd control abilities like a slowing effect. Some kind of stunning / disorientating apu skill would be awesome. Making creature focuses an APU skill would also help. This starts to create tactics that make the class more attractive to play.

Stealthing classes should be able to stealth easily in combat with mobs, and the mobs shouldn't be able to see them even they are stealthed. This allows the pistol spy and pe some better options when things are going wrong. Again some kind of stunning / disorientating weapon would be ace for these classes. This would allow them to come out of stealth, stun get a load of shots in and then get out again.

Anyway the questions.

Question 1: What combat rank should drop what kind of loot in your opinion?

1 - 30:

Low tl weapons (0-35 poor to good condition ~ 45% - 80% )
Low tl armour (0 -35 good condition ~ 80%)
Low tl drugs and loms
Low tl weapon parts etc < 25
Low tl implants and bones < 35
**Single use special blueprints for unique weapons < tl 35 (rare)**

32 - 63

Mid tl weapons (32-65 poor to good condition ~ 45% - 80% random slots)
Mid tl armour (32 - 65 good condition ~ 80%)
Mid - high tl drugs, weapon parts etc. etc.
**Single use special blueprints for unique weapons < tl 65 (rare)**

64 - 95

High tl weapons (64 - 100 poor to cool condition ~ 45% - 95% random slots)
High tl armour (64 - 90 good - cool condition ~ 80% - 95%)
**Single use special blueprints for unique weapons < tl 100 (very rare)**
L and T tech parts

96 -128

High tl weapons (64 - 100 poor to cool condition ~ 45% - 95% random slots)
High tl armour (64 - 90 good - cool condition ~ 80% - 95%)
**Single use special blueprints for unique weapons < tl 105 (very rare)**
L, T and E tech parts
Rare unique implants from bosses
More unique weapons / tools / psi equipment

Question 2: How high should be the amount for the elimination of monsters/npcs

The scaling of combat ranks doesn't seem to work for certain classes as they are at a huge disadvantage to long range classes. Add more combat / tactical options and I think the scaling might be ok.

The armour values of mobs needs to be adjusted so that classes who do less damage per second don't have to invest twice as long in killing a mob.

Question 3: Are there any items you would like to see as loot drop that are not being dropped yet?

Unique runs that drop from high level mobs on datadiscs - more just for fun and RP than special rewards.

BPs of interesting items like unique armour / weapons. These bps might need some more interesting components like Tronics parts, generators, ancient launcher connectors etc.

Veldren
02-08-07, 21:14
BPs of interesting items like unique armour / weapons. These bps might need some more interesting components like Tronics parts, generators, ancient launcher connectors etc.

Aye, this is a good idea. Needs to be a lot of BP dropping options. Like a lot different BPs would drop (not at once.) Maybe 50'ish different BP types for each of the level ranges could drop...which may or may not require KK to add new items to the game (weapons, implants, armor, drugs, etc.) that could be made from these BPs. This would definitely add some spice and mystery to the loot pool. :cool:

Veldren
02-08-07, 23:39
Oh yeah, forgot...

Also would be cool (and more realistic) if enemies dropped the same amount of loot regardless of how high the player's battlerank that killed it is. Like a 60/55 PE kills a small spider and gets the same loot that a 2/2 spy gets from killing small spiders. Why would what they drop change?

CoreInsanity
02-08-07, 23:47
Oh yeah, forgot...

Also would be cool (and more realistic) if enemies dropped the same amount of loot regardless of how high the player's battlerank that killed it is. Like a 60/55 PE kills a small spider and gets the same loot that a 2/2 spy gets from killing small spiders. Why would what they drop change?

The only reason I can think of for this is the fact that your combat rank depends on (among other things) how high TL your weapon is, the higher the TL the more damage (One would think) and the higher your combat rank. There fore, the higher your combat rank, the more damage, hence you destroy some of the loot.

But that is all I can think of for a reason.


afaik there's two problems with PvE in 2.2:

1 the high-end dungeons are too easy, if you know how to deal with them. in terms of safe spots, stealthing in, etc.
2 mid-to-high areas are too difficult. killing warbots to get exp, money and techs takes ages. and is stupidly ineffective compared to regants and the likes.

giving a cave-scorpion-like, bullet-type attack to genotoxic sluggers would change a lot. as well as removing techparts from them, leaving that to the queens room and sluggers. same with comparable hi-end-dungeons.

but turning up the difficulty there would leave anybody but overcapped teamsters in the dark. so removing spiderbots and hoppers plus turning up drop rate in warbies and the like should do.

while sewers, city storages and swamps are for beginners, wastes should be for midrange, and dungeons for the capped players. so everything in the wastes should be soloable, while the dungeons should be not.

adding more individual drops, like weapons, drugs and implants, would add greatly to the hunting experience.

ceterum censeo apu and melee being perfectly ok in 2.2.
cyberpunk. you've heard of it.

Winner tbh :cool:

Veldren
03-08-07, 03:05
The only reason I can think of for this is the fact that your combat rank depends on (among other things) how high TL your weapon is, the higher the TL the more damage (One would think) and the higher your combat rank. There fore, the higher your combat rank, the more damage, hence you destroy some of the loot.

Yeah, that makes sense. Would still be cool though. :cool:

THE_TICK!!!!
03-08-07, 09:15
i was kinda thinkin of high level mobs, droppin rare interesting imps, with cool stats, that normal imps dont have..BUT make them unrepairable and like 25/120 or something, so that way, you will have to go back and try and get that same imp, would be an interesting thing, for cst folks and hunters as well, give them a chance to get valuable trade goods.

SorkZmok
03-08-07, 09:56
He is correct. My capped PE in full armor including level 3 PA gets shredded down in that core of TH if I'm not careful! Warbots... Warbots are the first thing that comes to my mind when I think of NC. As of now, they are awful. Their damage is sick and the tech drop rate doesn't even come close to making up for it. Agressor Captains have killed a countless number of capped or near-capped tanks upon the first weeks of 2.2. I used to START leveling on them!Aggie captains for low/mid and warbots for mid/high players are the two best examples.
People used to love these. Aggie sewers was a place where you would always find people to team with, they did ok damage, gave good loot and were rather easy to kill. Making those just a tad stronger would've done the trick.
Warbot hunting, as mind numbing it may be, was something quite a few people enjoyed, myself included. It was just relaxing to go out, get my car and roam the wastelands for warbots. Some hacking inbetween, some nice loot, good money, all was fine.
Now they're just stupid. Way too high damage, shit loot and they're usually stuck in a group of small spiderbots that will tear you apart even faster. :rolleyes:



MC5 has always been that diamond mine goal for tech hunters and PvP'ers trying to polish off their finest fighter. Unfortunately, this makes for painful hunting experiences as it consists of ONE room with a ton of players (relative) wanting to farm that ONE room... My suggestion for this is simply make MC5 more of a laboratory (like lower Regents) that has hallways, rooms, and a few spots where Base Commanders spawn.There actually are several bases scattered around the MC5 area. All lead into the same type of room and they even got MC5 guards in them, i think. Just the main one is the only one with a commander. They could simply add more commanders to the other rooms. Problem solved. Just one more would already do the trick.


The absolute best solution that I could think of for places like BatQueen Cave, Chaos Caves, MC5, Regents (Labs and Legacy), etc. would be to create a system that uses cave instances. Similar to the way World of Warcraft handles that kind of thing. *awaits obnoxious remark of how WoW is for carebears blah blah blah...* Now that your done with that, back to the topic... :D The instance system works very well, IMO. It allows a team to form (or a single runner) and farm as much as they want and there is never a problem with sharing and hording of mobs. Also, smaller instances could also be made for lower level players that involve a boss at the end that varies in strength depending on level of cave or w/e. This boss may or may not also drop a unique weapon or armor type that you can only get from that boss. Missions could also be implemented for these instances that give rewards of varying types on the same dependency.Instances suck. For me they feel like they remove the MMO part. Anyway, i hardly doubt KK could implement such a system even if they wanted. And the population just isn't high enough.
There's enough caves for the people playing. Just not all got enough mobs and only one of its kind got a boss at the end. If KK would just change that we had more than enough caves to level.



Now, the concern would be raised, of course, about the drop rate of techs in these instances possibly due to groups constantly farming and so on. Not really a new problem since you can go to Regents and snag a ton of techs in no time already.

Now before anyone scoffs at my suggestion saying that I am just a carebear player who wants my very own place to hunt so I don't get PK'ed while doing so, know that I love PVP and look for it as well. If I hunt, I generally use an LE'ed char to do so. So either way, I get my techs. :DThe droprate of rareparts needs to be nerfed hard for mobs ranked 90+. That would solve the tech problem. Actually, that would have solved the problem months ago. Now there's enough parts and rares ingame to equip an army of newbies for their whole NC life. :rolleyes:


But it is kind of retarded when a player kills you with their capped tank and Creed and says, "LOLZ I TOTALLY RAPPED YOU!!! U SUCK SO MUCH U NOOB LOLOL!!!" Note that their target that they "rapped" was not even capped or was a low level that was far from it... congrats... :lol:That's what the LE is for. Play safe or don't. But taking out the LE and then complaining about getting shot is like joining a WoW pvp server and then whining about getting camped 24/7 no matter where you try to level. :lol:

SnowCrash
03-08-07, 12:11
I have read your feedback and will try to answer some of your questions. Please bear in mind that I am only able to answer single questions from each player. Otherwise I would have to request a 24 hour work day and my girl friend wouldn't be so happy about that. ;)



The only way lowering health off monsters/npc's without greatly unbalancing Neocron (in my opinion) more, would be to modify drones since they already have a great advantage over mobs.
Drones would either need to have their damage decreased, or firing speed slowed down.


The current focus is to optimise the PvE combat, means Monsters and NPCs. Adjusting weapons is part of the weapon balancing which also affects the PvE combat. We are aware of some unbalanced weapons but will address this at a future date.



I think that each banded rank of mob should be dropping equivalent implants, weapons (decent quality!) and armour every so often that players can use. It would also be nice if you could apply the same kind of ratio used for WoC disks to the lowest mobs, so that occasionally a newbie player will acquire a really nice rare item or drug he can sell to high level players. Is this possible?

This wouldn't be possible with existing items, as there are already too many rare items in circulation. Nobody would buy rare parts from newbies that are already available. And I am not sure if it would be good to add new rare items to the low level pool as people would simply make a newbie toon to get their hands on these items.



Hunting mobs at or just above player level (60-70) is of little or no worth. The cash rewards are small, the drops are useless, the xp is terrible and they are not in sufficient concentration in the WL or elsewhere to make them viable hunting fodder for solo players.

We agree on that issue with monsters/npcs within the levels 60-80 and will definitely adjust these mobs to make them more viable again for solo players.



1] Are there currently any plans to review weapons specifically burst weapons, and rifles in general compared with other weapons? Perhaps the woc weapons as well? As it stands pistols have three? WOC weapons ALL single shot which as the community has stated tirelessly ARE MORE POWERFUL THAN BURST! Freeman and Xbow are complained about alot as well as ion cannons and creed.

There are plans to address these points, especially the burst weapon issues. But this will be discussed at a future date. We are currently focussing on the PvE combat, making it more viable again for solo players or players who are not able to get steady supported by their clan.



I see that most of the time when you add new rare items in the game they're often obtained through quests, I say add items in some cases where they can only be obtained by killing a boss that's too tough to take on alone. Consider how many people gather, for example, to farm the Phoenix boss in hacknet

The intention behind this is to make it more appealing to obtain special or rare items. In our opinion it could be a bit boring to just grind mobs all the time to finally receive a special or rare item. It should also motivate players to stick together in order to face a big challenge and get a nice sense of achievement afterwards.



How about this suggestion: Higher dmg for pistols, apu and melee in PvE?

Quite difficult to achieve, as this would also affect the PvP combat. It is technically not possible to have different PvE and PvP weapons.

Overall we are very pleased with the feedback and see some very nice ideas that are definitely realisable. Though, you still need to keep in mind that Neocron’s resources are limited and that we can only address existing issues one at a time. The content update, which is currently under work, is also taking resources but I can already say that many players will like it as we have taken up many ideas regarding the Dome of York situation and the faction relations.

Please keep on discussing your ideas and bring up additional suggestions. We are collecting everything and will present you the final concept at a future date.

Veldren
03-08-07, 19:56
The intention behind this is to make it more appealing to obtain special or rare items. In our opinion it could be a bit boring to just grind mobs all the time to finally receive a special or rare item. It should also motivate players to stick together in order to face a big challenge and get a nice sense of achievement afterwards.


When I think about how boring it was to get the Chaos Queen Flame Avalanche from the Chaos Queen and compare that to how annoying doing even just one of the epic runs is, I find that farming a boss (which is fun to kill, btw) is far less of a painful experience. Besides, if you are going to make the higher level mobs tougher and requiring a group to kill, then wouldn't that make players "stick together" more? ;)



Though, you still need to keep in mind that Neocron’s resources are limited and that we can only address existing issues one at a time. The content update, which is currently under work, is also taking resources...


Perhaps, in that case KK should focus their resources on fixing the other, more pressing matters? I mean, all this content addition is great and all but it will be FAR more appreciated to fix things like zone sync crashes, a locker system (mentioned in another thread), and other such issues. I'm not trying to be rude. I'm just looking at the situation as a player and planner and from both angles it looks like a wiser idea to simply fine tune the current PvE (fix ridiculous damage amounts from enemies of a low level etc) and then fix the problems that would really make an impact. :)

boreal
03-08-07, 22:47
FINALY someone hear my god damn freacking prier...

about time !!!!

ok, after having try every branch (lower starter and max caracter) i have left neocron in hope that one day i will be able to do what i do before whit my bro... mean go hunt 2 tank again firemob whitout getting freacking eat by them each time (let face it, now i can't even get close to them EVEN whit max fire resist -_-)

only way to fight is whit vehicule.... and (back when i was playing) 125K for a rhino (not too sure about the price) it kinda hard to gain !!!


Concerning this matter we also have some questions for you for further orientation.

Question 1: What combat rank should drop what kind of loot in your opinion?

EASY, the tech lvl should tell you what lvl you should drop... i mean beeing a max tank i sound'nt see glass, metal and shit like that. i should see more R8-9-10 and other stuff like that... low caracter should get low stuff.... also if we can't realy make cash (cost more that you can gain by killing a ennemy) why not making them drop bullet.... and mayby a small chance or amor ???

Question 2: How high should be the amount for the elimination of monsters/npcs

i think that you should be able to solo most if not all the time... i mean for place like CERES or GENOTOXIC or DoY Tunnel.... these are mean to be play in team... the rest you play and move around... you should be able to solo.... even a 120/120... at least it keep you in a mood for fighting....don't forget that some player like me don't like PvP too much... i only fight when i need it... when they are 2-3 again me... else then i run away !!!

let us farm where we want !!! i remember having so much fun in firemob whit my bro... taking 3-4 120/120 grim chasser and let them spawn tousant of little shit.... took a lot of bullet... but hell... if you got everything for repair/recycle/heal, you can stay there for ever (best run was 10 houres, 2 tank..... nearly 50 M !!!) and that fun.... now whitout a RHINO im getting owned. that preaty bad... oh yea you have made us possible to drive it... but that a good/bad think.... true i can fight there alone now... but i can't fight whit my bro anymore :( !!!

Question 3: Are there any items you would like to see as loot drop that are not being dropped yet?

AR suit... oh what the hell.. EVERY THINK... i mean most of the part have been remove (think that a lot of item where already say) and i would love see more special drop.... make them nearly inacesible by making BOSS mob having them !!! like the bone from the bat queen... they are nice.... the AR suit is a nice stuff too.... the energy mod (don't remember the name) that where given in a special cave full of energie monster in the desert (memory is bad atm) and other stuff too !!!!

So in conclusion.... last time i have play... start a new BRAND NEW rifle man and i have never been able to hit something (whit the sniper rifle special and full of aim...-_-... so i hope starting to play again but whit more fun to hunt mob !!!
__________________
Christian 'SnowCrash' Schuett
Community Manager, Lead Gamemaster

Dribble Joy
04-08-07, 16:41
Not sure this has been mentioned, but if it has it needs saying again.

Even if it means things being out of line with the rest of the system, very low level mobs (starter ones) and the whole n00b leveling process needs to be simple and easy.

Silverbird
04-08-07, 23:12
PvE, now there's a can of worms you just opened:

Reading about droners in other posts, yes, they rock, if they can 'hang' their drone someplace. If not, like in the open or in the graves, drones wear out
fast.

Hunting in teams could be fun, but is seriously hampered by the comparatively low server population. Mind you, I do *not* wanna see
these rather idiotic 'half-an-army-against-one-real-badass-type-single-hyper-mega-endboss'. Whenever three or four folks do end up in the same zone they usually have a go at each other instead of ganking mobs for a chance, fine, PvP is part of the game.

What it takes is to increase the loot of the hi-end mobs that are really hard to do ( leave aside the usual farming areas ) to make it worthwhile for a team and even more worthwhile for a solo player to take up the challenge.

Keep the realism, in the RL scheme of things, humans have and had but wits to advance to the top of the feeding pyramid. Almost every other creature flies/runs/swims faster, bites/kicks/claws/scratches harder and so on...Surviving in the wastes ought to be a challenge for a squishy little morsel called homo sapiens. But stick to realism in making the mobs miss more often too. Even capped, runners have to live - and occasionally die - 'cuz the odd round does not find it's target, whereas anything mobs lob at the runner
never misses unless you get a piece of landscape between you and the incoming heat. Dodge duck and weave ought to have more going for it.
Warbots - the solo runner's main diet - could be ok the way they are, if you nerf the spiderbots that usually spawn in the same areas. Getting the crap shot ouf you from half a zone away by some mob that is currently hardly worth looting ain't much fun. Yes I do have a rifler that soloes around Battle Dome, but after spending a night on a dozwn WB's and their multi-legged companions, with only one or two rares to show for it versus most of your armor shot to tatters one begins to wonder whether it's still profitable...

Keep in line with realism, but back some oomph into combat vehicles. Raising the reqs on one hand while nerfing RoF and Dmg on the other is a bit out of kilter in terms of balance. Humans thought up combat vehicles to stand a chance against some badass mobs, but atm one could do probably more hurt
to mobs by whacking them with a conster tool instead of a riding a hovertec ... and viewed realistically, a 20mm vhc gun is a serious piece of hardware

Mobs gotten smarter across the board, or mebbe it's just me, getting dumber instead ;)

danmalone
12-08-07, 16:50
think i posted in wrong place b4 :S


when 2.2 came out and i tried to make new chars, i was under the influence that pve was totally borked. After playing 2.2 for a few weeks it seemed to be ok. Most of the old leveling spots are now just completely useless, el farid is impossible unless your a droner, poison caves i dont think get used anymore. People are creating new chars and they can level to cap without even leaving the city now, they have no reason to leave to go to places like el farid anymore because they have no reason to, why try levling in a place thats near impossible when u can stay in the city and be capped within a few days.... U need to give people a reason to leave the city, only reason people leave the cities nowadays is for op wars. Dont get me wrong, theres still good places 2 level, one being regants ofc which is very overused atm and a few other of the old places. I think sum thought might need to go into changing damage types of mob in el farid, graves.... i mean, 2.1 fully buffed ppu goes in el farid, stands there and takes bugger all damage... 2.2 fully buffed ppu stands there...stacks upon stacks of fire and poison and pow your dead. It may seem like a rant, but seeing people leveling t cap inside the cities kinda pi***d me off loads and i cant see the situation changing unless sumthing done

2.2 ftw :p

SorkZmok
13-08-07, 09:19
Besides, if you are going to make the higher level mobs tougher and requiring a group to kill, then wouldn't that make players "stick together" more? ;)That's a wrong assumption.

There's a pretty high number of people that prefer to go solo when they pve. In every game.
They shouldn't be forced to team up. Teams should have a slight advantage in leveling speed and easieness.
Just look at all the high end caves in NC. They're all empty except for regants because that's the last place you can do solo. That's how it works.

I'd always prefer a night of solo hunting warbots over regants or a team in general. It needs to be viable both ways.


I also think the raredrop of cave mobs needs to either go or get nerfed to at max 10% of what it's now. It's just too easy to find and farm cave mobs.

Dribble Joy
13-08-07, 16:29
It's a matter of contention as to whether caves should be soloable.

Making them so would leave WL hunting somewhat barren, unless loot/cash gains from it are much higher. Of course that differentiates the two into different roles, one for items, one for xp, which isn't necessarily a good thing.

Personally, leaving some caves soloable (or for mid level teams) such as el farid or chaos and then having high end team caves (MC5, Juggernauts and regants) would allow people to hunt in the way they want to. So long as WL hunting remains a viable means.

Ru-Just-RU
13-08-07, 20:39
so... when new Balancing Path will be applied ? ;)

Eternal Pink
14-08-07, 21:23
Question 1: Which combat rank groups should be able to be soloed.

Same as the highest CR its possible for a player to get, if a player can get to the same CR as the mob, then it should be soloable.

Question 2: From what rank on should player teams be required to master monsters/npcs?

Level 96-128 (e.g. Blood Viper King, Genotoxic Nightmare, Grim Chaser, etc.)

Though more use of multiple mobs than one single mob thats damn hard to kill would make PvE more interesting since managing to solo a single mob isn't very hard, managing to fight a group of mobs even when there significantly lower is much harder.

Question 1: What combat rank should drop what kind of loot in your opinion?

Level 1-31 (e.g. Lizards, Spider, Snakes, Roaches, etc..) - Money, junk you can sell, raw materials, implants/weps/armor/bones that have a equal or lower TL as the CR of the mob.

Level 32-63 (e.g. Spiderbots, Hurler, Aggressor, etc..) - Money, junk you can sell, raw materials, implants/weps/armor/bones that have a equal or lower TL as the CR of the mob, low level rare parts

Level 64-95 (e.g. Warbot, Leaper, Mauler, Hover bomber, usw.) - Money, rares etc

Level 96-128 (e.g. Blood Viper King, Genotoxic Nightmare, Grim Chaser, etc.) - Lots of money and rares, cool drop only stuff like titan armor or storm laser etc

Question 2: How high should be the amount for the elimination of monsters/npcs

Should be fairly high to allow peeps to buy equip/trade skill services etc

Question 3: Are there any items you would like to see as loot drop that are not being dropped yet?

WoC Monk stuff thats decent

General Crazy
20-08-07, 23:14
Wanted to get to posting this sooner but I haven't had time to work on it but here is my thoughts on PvE Combat, When it came to PvE I spent a lot of time soloing or grouping with one other and so did most of the people I know that play NC1, only to form larger groups for Caves and PvP.


Question 1: Which combat rank groups should be able to be soloed.
Out Door Boss Mobs (Level 120) should be able to be solo by a capped player with full resistance versus that type of mob but should but should be placed with one or 2 lesser mobs to more challenging where it say 2 close to capped players with a fair amount of resistance can still take it down with the addition mobs. (To make it fair you should start testing out with different class/weapons [Hate to the 2 Pistol Spy Guinea Pigs])


Question 2: From what rank on should player teams be required to master monsters/npcs?
nly the Indoor Boss Mobs (Level 120) by them self should be balanced for 2 capped players with full resistance versus that type of mob then add some additional mobs with them so it is balanced for 4 capped players with full resistance.


Question 1: What combat rank should drop what kind of loot in your opinion?

Chemicals - Mob Level ~ TL-5 to TL*2
Weapon Parts - Mob Level ~ TL-10 to TL*2
Weapon Mod Parts - Mob Level ~ TL-10 to TL*2 (Weaponmod Part reg.# D32H6/MOD-11 would be better as TL55 but is listed as TL65 on TH Network)
Vehicle Component Parts - Mob Level ~ TL-10 to TL*2
Armor Parts - Mob Level ~ TL-10 to TL*2
Implant Parts - Mob Level ~ TL-10 to TL*2 (Implant part reg.# 222-D38HK6-K would be better as TL55 but is listed as TL85 on TH Network)
Ammo Parts - Mob Level ~ TL-10 to TL*2
Armor - Mob Level ~ TL*1/3 to TL (Higher chance that Armor with resistance again the type mob will drop)
Weapons - Mob Level ~ TL*1/3 to TL (Higher chance weapon type the mob uses will drop)
Implants - Mob Level ~ TL*1/3 to TL*2
Drugs - Mob Level ~ TL*1/2 to TL*2
Ammo - Mob Level ~ ? (I guess would be random)
Other Junk - Mob Level ~ TL*1/2 to TL*2

Slot Enchancers and Ultimas:
Level 20 and Higher - Experimental Construction Slot Enhancer v0.9
Level 50 and Higher - Construction Slotenhancer v1.5
Level 80 and Higher - All Ultimas and Illegal Construction Slot Enhancer


Boosters, First Aid and Med Kits ? (Hard to say with the current TLs)

Tech Parts(Level 120 Mob would have 100% drop rate where a Level 80 and above should be atleast 20% drop rate and anything under that would be alot lower?)
Level 64-79 L's 95%, T's 5%
Level 80-100 L's 20%, T's 70%, E's 10%
Level 101-128 E's 75%, T's 25%


Question 2: How high should be the amount for the elimination of monsters/npcs
Killing 2 mobs should be at least equal to the amount lots to recover ones back pack at Base Rank = 1/2 of the mobs level. (100nc for a */2 player vs a Level 1 mob while it would be 3000nc for a */60 vs a Level 120)


Question 3: Are there any items you would like to see as loot drop that are not being dropped yet?
Adjusting Drop Rates of Parts, Weapons, Armor, Ammo and Other Junk to Low to help keep weight down would be a good thing.

Tesee
23-08-07, 18:07
I agree that lvl 100/100 + mobs should be hardly soloable.

One thing should be done: in my opinion, xp zone should be somewhat modified if mobs are modified.

Todays there are only valuable caves with lvl 80/80 + mobs:

There should be some caves with lvl 50 mobs and lvl 60 mobs

Nytewolf2k7
24-08-07, 09:57
I'd rather the mobs were scaled to the level your runner is on, plus any runners in your team. Though for lesser mobs it might (or not) make much sense....

Also, I'd like the weapons that mutants or other things use on you to be lootable, I mean... A crazed mutant comes at you with a knife, It should drop that knife, right?

Bring on the patch! :D :cool:

boreal
24-08-07, 19:05
is it possible to adjust the mob for your group ???


1 player should be able to get the same challenge again 1 mob that if it a group

let me explain in detail by taking 2 exemple.

1. a max tank alone run and hunt firemob, rank near 80/60 ** hunt doomreaper 90/90 **. he should able to solo him whitout prob (like good imp, nothing break, good resist)

2. a group of 2 runner go hunt the same mob. both of them are near 80/60 ** and hunt 1 doomreaper 90/90 ** they should be able to get him down more faster taht if he is alone...


now take that and put it in NC2.2.... the tank CAN'T solo the doomy, and the 2 runner can but it a challenge... why not make that when a team hit a mob (like 2 guy again 1 mob) well that mob gain a boost of + % of all his stat and that number is chosen by the number of person in your team, and if the person who hit the doomy is alone, then make it more fun to hunt, a bit less of heal and DAMAGE (freaking insane by now, they ******** trought a full Rhino whitout prob o.O)

take D2 for exemple. if your alone, you can take all down by youself and it easy... but when people come and join you (or just joint your game) mob get a huge % increase in all stat.... that make the game even more fun since you can solo if you want... or you can team for more fun and it still the same toughness that if you where alone.

because right now, let face it... else that PvP (and whit the clip bug it making that bad too) no one whit max caracter is doing something nice... i mean i can't go hunt nothing whit my max tank... and i use to stay in a piece whit 4-6 aggy capitain whitout checking my healt too much... now 2-3 of them (if i don't have amor and shit ready) can tear trought me :P. so my tank is staying in him app and im lvling a new guy... loot is shit but hi have bring him to 39/20 whit good stat overall and aggy arent that bad when you know how to take them... they are still a bit too strong...

i need soon to move to MB to hunt cyclop.... the question... will i be able to kill them like before and at the same speed... i doub but let try it tonight


(i will post when i hunt cyclop if they are ok. they do force-piercing damage and i got a PPU the same lvl as me)

boreal
24-08-07, 19:12
I'd rather the mobs were scaled to the level your runner is on, plus any runners in your team. Though for lesser mobs it might (or not) make much sense....

Also, I'd like the weapons that mutants or other things use on you to be lootable, I mean... A crazed mutant comes at you with a knife, It should drop that knife, right?

Bring on the patch! :D :cool:

i would like to get the weapon the MC5 guy had :D :D :D
or even the copbot :angel: :angel: :angel:
or the firemob 8| 8| 8| (what they use :P firespell !!!)

and also for what they can drop... i think that they already drop crappy weapon, why not sometime they drop a arti weapon OR a outstanding one whit slot ???

also make the look like 1.5 what they are now... for my experience, start a new spy, i can't make money to buy my chip (i mean i made money true, but each time im making enought to buy 1 chip, i need a other too... i recycle bullet and medic, so i don't buy them... and i use the shitty loot for that... i still can't buy everything for my lvl :P that should be nice and sweet if we can do that)

Tesee
29-08-07, 19:14
I think one thing should be kept in mind:

althought I understand that killing bigest mobs alone should be difficult,
it should not be impossible.

Remember that in NC the only way to xp is to kill mobs and
there is no reason why it could not be done alone.
There should be some possibilties to xp alone.

--> PLEASE increase the rate xp grows with the tradeskills,

I do not see why my conster or searcher / reper should go kill mobs to xp !!!!!

--> give reasonable xp for barter !!!!

Dribble Joy
30-08-07, 01:13
There should be some areas/mobs which are 'team only'.
This is after all an MMO.

The problem is caves vs solo hunting as a means to gain xp/cash.
While there should be a benefit for teaming (end reward, overall cash benefit), solo hunting should possibly be equally viable for players regarding xp gain. Though of course that depends on the nature of the advantage teaming has over solo play. But solo should never be far behind and remain a viable route.

Omnituens
30-08-07, 03:15
It's a far cry from when everything but MC5 was soloable.

Personally, I prefer an end game which has both solo and party play. This is the main reason i quit WoW.

Dribble Joy
30-08-07, 03:45
Indeed, there should be viable team and solo end game PvE. Any benefits of team play should be 'minimal', which in my opinion means items, but not significant cash or xp benefits.

Doc Holliday
30-08-07, 11:56
agreed with the last few posters. make things closer to the levels of pre 2.2 pve in terms of armour of mobs especially at the lower end of the scale. examples like warbots being soloable again and the spiders nerfed to hell spring to mind.

The caves on the other hand should be tougher but not impossible given a good strong team. whilst your at it can u make the chaos cave mobs a bit higher again. it was nice how it was. i dont think the dot poison stacks really do it for me ;) the old way was better. plus it would spread people out to choose where they level. however if doin that means other places ie regants go unused then of course leave it alone.

final thought. a grim should be killable solo but not with out a lot of patience etc and alot of thought.

danmalone
30-08-07, 19:24
i agree with DJ, there should definately be places that require teams in order to survive etc.

I went down el farid on my fully capped ppu (with that green rare spell that removes all stacked effects) with a v good friend on an apu (not too far from cap),we were both fully buffed and made it to the second level, for sum reason or other all of the mobs had gathered in and around the area where u zone down into the second level. Now my friend died fairly quickly (b4 i could remove the stacks) so i had to try a rezz..... after 5 attempts (using the green spell b4 every rezz) i realised no matter what, he wasnt going to get a rezz cause of the fact that as soon as i remove all harmful stacks and start the rezz, the mbs sumhow manage to shoot round corners and on the last attempt i die.

Pre 2.2 this was fairly easily soloable by pretty much any class that can do sum AOE dmg and had sum form of fire resist. With poison resist heavy poisonbelt and constant heal, the poison stacks just eat the hp bar :mad:
Im not sure how chaos caves work, but these were also reasonably easy to solo in 2.1.

Im not saying roll back the leveling to how it was in 2.1, cause other than caves, i quite like the changes to the pve aspect of the game (vehicles need fixing possibly ;) ) i would just like to see the caves part made easier, even if it does require a small team/ ppu up the rear end for el farid. I would actually like to see ppl using these places again, cause other than regants, all i see is the occasional fire mob hunter and all the rest inside the city's leveling in the old hq places and it sucks :(


:cool:

boreal
24-09-07, 19:00
good.... no other message since 25 day now..... are we gonna get a patch by november or not.... i think we have all say what we ned to say... now stop the non-sense talk and let us see what you gonna do

IceStorm
28-10-07, 11:41
You should be careful what you wish for.

KK's track record for winter patches is lackluster. Typically they dump out a patch on a Thursday in November, then disappear until February.

While I'd love to see PvE revamped, I don't imagine it's going to happen. The damage outdoor-engine mobs do now is catastrophic, and the returns are next to worthless.

I'm starting to agree with the people who want NC1 back. :-)

Apocalypsox
28-10-07, 18:18
I dont care what they do, It needs fixed. I cant fucking get through the first level of El Farid on my capped tank with Inq 4 and Viperking chest. Bull. Hes specced for poison too, because i used him when everyone and their mother had a wargas dev.

Doc Holliday
28-10-07, 19:12
I dont care what they do, It needs fixed. I cant fucking get through the first level of El Farid on my capped tank with Inq 4 and Viperking chest. Bull. Hes specced for poison too, because i used him when everyone and their mother had a wargas dev.


Why havent u said something before. I will get on to Snowcrash and get him to boost you and nerf everything else in this game and that should sort it right? ;)

Apocalypsox
28-10-07, 19:58
Doc, you fucking KNOW its bullshit that a 40/40 mob can kill a capped tank with a full set of level 4 armor running through the fucking caves at full bore. DONT FUCK WITH ME ON THIS.

Nullvoid
28-10-07, 20:10
It's completely messed up yes but I'm sure similar points were raised away back during the pre-release test server phase and kk didn't acknowledge them then. Maybe they will some time soon? :(

Doc Holliday
29-10-07, 01:33
Doc, you fucking KNOW its bullshit that a 40/40 mob can kill a capped tank with a full set of level 4 armor running through the fucking caves at full bore. DONT FUCK WITH ME ON THIS.

i do. yes your right but in light of everything we arent getting anywhere yelling from the tops of the houses. im fuckin hoping as much as u that a patch comes and it comes good and brings us all a lovely slightly early christmas present and fixes even 20% of the problems of pve. however we dont know for sure so suck it up and try and get on the best you can mate and wait and see. in the mean time try and smile a bit. thats all that post wanted to make u do :)

IceStorm
29-10-07, 06:42
It's completely messed up yes but I'm sure similar points were raised away back during the pre-release test server phaseNo, not really. Most people were busy playing with PvP and not PvE. I said something, and a few others did, and I even said if the engine can't cut the new changes, don't make them, but oh well.

I mean, really, do we need more than three leveling sites? Regant's for everyone who isn't a droner, and El Farid/Ceres for droners. Once you're capped, you just ignore the mobs, right? I mean, that's what you wanted, right? RIGHT? RIGHT?.

While things are hosed up I'm overcapping some Spys for RES/REP and CST/REC, plus some barter. Then I'll go overcap my main and my rifle spy using drones. By that point, KK might fix some stuff.

Tesee
15-11-07, 20:50
no news regarding next patch sofar?
we are in mid november now, any KK news?

Zheo
16-11-07, 10:46
I've been thinking (duck) that loot from mobs should be more inline with what you'd expect to find, so here's what I think should be done.

First off KK need to introduce a "Remote Salvage Tool" this tool is used by runners to 'salvage' items of use from mobs that they kill or that have been killed. Perhaps have "First Salvage Rights" or something.

So here's how it works

Human aka Guard
Possible Loot:
Weapons that mob was using damaged due to use.
Ammo
Armour - Damaged due to combat**
Medkits/Stamina Boosters
Food such as milky rens etc.
Broken implants/biotech garbage*
Implants intact level depending on level of mob.*
Rare Parts

* = Salvage
** = Possible Salvage?
*** = Possible Loot
Basically anything you'd expect to find on a corpse, of course ammo and such would be something you just pick up, but implants you'd need to salvage from the corpse, and perhaps if armour was wreaked you could salvage parts from it.

Robot - Warbots etc
Ammo
Armour Parts*
Weapon Parts*
Vehicle Parts or Vehicle compenent parts**
Rare Parts***

Mutants - Launcher Cyclopse etc
Ammo
Medkits
Weapons from some.
Armour from some.
Meat
Things like entrails could be salvaged from them and sold for cash at Yo's
Implants **
Broken Implants/Biotech Garbage**
Rares***

Animals - Spiders etc
Insect eyes and other spider organic loot *

Plants - Toxic Plants
Wood *
Some low level drugs perhaps *

Feel free to alter/discuss/add to the above.

ashley watts
16-11-07, 13:35
I've been thinking (duck) that loot from mobs should be more inline with what you'd expect to find, so here's what I think should be done.

First off KK need to introduce a "Remote Salvage Tool" this tool is used by runners to 'salvage' items of use from mobs that they kill or that have been killed. Perhaps have "First Salvage Rights" or something.

So here's how it works

Human aka Guard
Possible Loot:
Weapons that mob was using damaged due to use.
Ammo
Armour - Damaged due to combat**
Medkits/Stamina Boosters
Food such as milky rens etc.
Broken implants/biotech garbage*
Implants intact level depending on level of mob.*
Rare Parts

* = Salvage
** = Possible Salvage?
*** = Possible Loot
Basically anything you'd expect to find on a corpse, of course ammo and such would be something you just pick up, but implants you'd need to salvage from the corpse, and perhaps if armour was wreaked you could salvage parts from it.

Robot - Warbots etc
Ammo
Armour Parts*
Weapon Parts*
Vehicle Parts or Vehicle compenent parts**
Rare Parts***

Mutants - Launcher Cyclopse etc
Ammo
Medkits
Weapons from some.
Armour from some.
Meat
Things like entrails could be salvaged from them and sold for cash at Yo's
Implants **
Broken Implants/Biotech Garbage**
Rares***

Animals - Spiders etc
Insect eyes and other spider organic loot *

Plants - Toxic Plants
Wood *
Some low level drugs perhaps *

Feel free to alter/discuss/add to the above.

Sounds good, and realistic i guess

BLEH, still waiting for patch ;<

William Antrim
16-11-07, 15:01
Common sensical. Such a shame.

L0KI
16-11-07, 16:01
no news regarding next patch sofar?
we are in mid november now, any KK news?

Lol, no. :(