Need PC advice pls [Archive] - Official Neocron Forum

Zeninja

20-07-07, 20:35

LOL, no I want to start a brand new one from scratch, all new parts.
Then 500 boxes sounds a bit too low for a "hardcore" gaming PC I think. Depends on the games you're planning to play though ?

Any decent GFX card alone could handle popular games like Counter-Strike with not too much RAM, average HD, and a cheap CPU (processor), but don't expect playing eye catcher recent games with it.

edit : maybe I've spoken too fast (I didn't realise 500£ was worth > 700 euros), it's up to you saving money by keeping the still decent parts you already got. Just fill in what follows (that's all I can do for you - I'm not well aware of current brands and prices), then I have no doubts someone else will help :

- Power supply : ..........
- Motherboard : ..........
- Hard Drive : ..........
- Graphic Card : ..........
- Ram (SDRAM ? DDR ? DDR2 ?) : ..........
- Sound Card (integrated ?) : ............
- OS : ..........

Serious_Sam

20-07-07, 20:48

Check out eBuyer for some decent components. Or even better, order from US dealerships since the pound is double the dollar!!

Anyway, i take it you want to concentrate on the box itself, not peripherals (as it will just add to the cost).

The pricier item will be the gfx card & cpu. If you can get a decent deal on those three, you should be good for the other parts too.

The best way to find out what you need is look for benchmark tests and roundups of current components (which also tell you how much they are).

Remember, Google is your friend.

CMaster

20-07-07, 20:50

http://www.tomshardware.com

Learn to love their charts and so on, so you can see just what you are getting for your money.

ashley watts

21-07-07, 01:36

check out ebuyer for some general parts :)

jini

21-07-07, 05:51

Nymphette you have to do 3 things:
1. Forget that the site cmaster showed you even exists !
2. DONT build one up yourself and the most important:
3. Go get a finished product from a company you like and trust say, like Dell or something. Alternatively you might have big companies in UK that builds good and cheap PCs. Basically you are looking for a good company that will give you warranty, upgradeability and fast tech support. Maybe its also near where you stay which is also a good idea, but it has to be a large company that you trust. Last, for the cash you want to spend, you go and tell a sales person what you need and he will suggest you one right away.

As an example, we have such a company here in Greece, its the largest retailer/manufacturer all over Greece, and his tech response time is less than 4 hours! Yes, Dell might be bigger but only in the USA...

Apocalypsox

21-07-07, 08:22

Jini, the problem with buying a built PC from one of those fucktard companies is how much more it cost to get it when you could have built one just as good if not better for about 1/6th the price.

Bredahl

21-07-07, 10:14

Well.. IMO it kinda depends on how much the person knows about computers.. If he/she dont know much about computers, then go to one of em expensive companys. Since there can be quite alot of problems with making your own machine.
If you on the other hand knows loads about it, then it would be completely idiotic to buy a such a machine, since you really do get alot more for the money when making one self.

But it all depends on how much the person knows about this shit.

WaRü

21-07-07, 11:15

Maybe there`s something similar in your city, i`ve build my sys on my own, with self choosen parts, the local hardware store where i bought it, gave me a guarantee to switch parts if they wouldn`t have worked together, since theres the possibility, some parts don`t like each other.
But what i want to say is, small hardware stores are mostly way cheaper compaired to the big one`s selling rdy to go computer.
Just have a look if there`s one near you, they should be able to help you, with components which work fine together, and should even have a service to build it, atleast here in germany its that way, even with this you re going way cheaper.
Btw, if you have an old computer you don´t need anymore, you might be able to use some components again, like the tower or cd/dvd drive, maybe the HDD too.

And for the components go for DDR2, for games should 1 GB enough, 2 is even better, atleast for neocron.. RAM doesn`t need to be the fastest mine is
CL5, f.e. has a slower timing, but was a lot cheaper, works fine that way for all games.

And the question you need to answere: Do you want Intel or AMD ? & for graphics Ati or Nvidia.

Thats important because eighter way you go, there are compatibility lists for the components.

sry for teh bad english, hope its understandable... :D

€: I`ve just read what Zeninja wrote, mine was exactly around €700, here is my hardware:

Mine:

Asus P5B-E
E6600@2,4 @Zalman CNPS9500 AT
2xCorsair 1GB xms2 ddr2-800, CL5
Asus radeon EAx1950pro @Syncmaster 171s
seagate 250gb,16mb,sata²
Samsung SH203-B sata² cd dvd rw
BeQuiet Dark Power Pro 430W

Thats the stuff i bought, except the TFT, i am using it since about 5 years..

jini

21-07-07, 11:43

Jini, the problem with buying a built PC from one of those fucktard companies is how much more it cost to get it when you could have built one just as good if not better for about 1/6th the price.
Guys, if she really knew how to built she would have asked us here?
Even I, that know a lot about technology, am not very confident in building something like that on my own. Yes the built one is cheaper like maybe 10-15% but you risk a lot like crashes and other bugs, and also for a premium of this 10% you get 3 years guarantee. You are safe and sound for 10% more ... yes I would choose those machines over any other. Also, if I wanted to do work I would choose to buy a mac as most of you know. She wants to play, therefore she needs a wintendo :p

btw... the nintendo wii is real fun lol :p

IceStorm

21-07-07, 12:02

So for ~500 GBP...

£ 56.34 - Intel Pentium Dual Core E2160 (http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=600158) - It's Core 2-based
£ 52.85 - 2x1GB Elixir DDR2-800 DIMMs (http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=527001) - 2GB, minimum
£ 33.95 - Gigabyte GZ-X2 Case (http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=534749) - no real preference
£ 46.87 - 500watt FSP PSU (http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=271185) - Fortron Source is a reputable PSU maker
£182.11 - nVidia 8800GTS 320MB video card (http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=546950) - 320MB should be enough for up to/around 1600x1200
£ 43.82 - 250GB Seagate Baracuda 7200.10 HDD (http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=345219) - It's a start, and it has a 5yr warranty
£ 66.98 - Abit IP-35E motherboard (http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=605521) - It should support the first generation of Penryn 45nm CPUs
£ 19.96 - Lite On DVD burner (http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=551734) - everyone needs an optical drive

Total is £518.10 with VAT and Carriage from Scan.co.uk, the only UK retailer I'm aware of.

I'm assuming you have an OS and a monitor/speakers/keyboard/mouse. If not, you'll have to add that all in. You can squeeze in the monitor/speakers/keyboard/mouse if you drop the video card and go with an inexpensive nVidia 8600 GT or ATI HD 2600XT.

CMaster

21-07-07, 12:33

Guys, if she really knew how to built she would have asked us here?
Even I, that know a lot about technology, am not very confident in building something like that on my own. Yes the built one is cheaper like maybe 10-15% but you risk a lot like crashes and other bugs, and also for a premium of this 10% you get 3 years guarantee. You are safe and sound for 10% more ... yes I would choose those machines over any other. Also, if I wanted to do work I would choose to buy a mac as most of you know. She wants to play, therefore she needs a wintendo :p

btw... the nintendo wii is real fun lol :p

Acually, my self-built PCs have always crashed a lot less than those others have bought from manufactorers, and 've been rather uunimpressed with Dell over the last few years (although they are better than countless others). However it is strue that you shouldn't try and build your own PC unless you are prepared to deal with fixing the reasons why it doesn't start first time you put all the bits together. If you do want to go for a built gaming PC, I'd suggest you look at the stuff the componetnts vendors offer - Scan definatley do that kind of thing, and MESH used to do some decen gaming rigs, not sure about these days.

Nymphette79

21-07-07, 13:01

Thank you so much for all ur opinions, i understand what your saying Jini but I have had one brought from Tiny and all I had was problems with it.
In answer to ur question Waru, I have always gone AMD and nVidia but am open to change as i've heard Intel is better.
And no I don't know diddly squat about building a PC but I have friends who can build em but just thought i'd get ur opinions on it :D

Zeninja

21-07-07, 13:49

Also, if I wanted to do work I would choose to buy a mac as most of you know.
NC's Apple Fanboy #1 strikes again :rolleyes:

Thank you so much for all ur opinions, i understand what your saying Jini but I have had one brought from Tiny and all I had was problems with it.
There's a lot of local sellers that can build a steady PC for you with compatible components taking your personnal needs into account (assuming you're taken in charge by an honest employee), asking a reasonnable amount of money (let's say, 50 euros), while still offering a decent guaranty.

You'd rather do this instead of buying some expansive "standard" machine (no matter its brand) or even calling for Dell's custom builds.

And finally, I suggest you choose an AMD processor rather than an Intel one for a gaming machine.

CMaster

21-07-07, 13:58

And finally, I suggest you choose an AMD processor rather than an Intel one for a gaming machine.

Not seen recent benchmarks? http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts/cpu-charts/3dmark06-graphics,293.html?p=599%2C596%2C614%2C605%2C606%2C604%2C647%2C601%2C644%2C592%2C634%2C589%2C633%2C63 2%2C584%2C580%2C583%2C569%2C574%2C566%2C621%2C565%2C620%2C615%2C617%2C616%2C618%2C619%2C646%2C613 and perhaps more clearly: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/cpu-charts-2007,review-2351.html. T
Add to this the fact that the core2 duos are a lot more overclockable than the Athlon 64 X2s at the moment and well, you get the point. I dare say that when AMD break through to a smaller scale process, they may catch up again. And the real choosing point is of course what is faster at your price point, not who has the fastest whizz-bang at the top end.

Also, another article well of use: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/the-best-gaming-video-cards-for-the-money-uk,review-2341.html

Zeninja

21-07-07, 14:00

Performance is one thing, Budget is another one

Add to this the fact that the core2 duos are a lot more overclockable
And of course the girl has got all the required knowledge to overclock her cpu, hasn't she ?

CMaster

21-07-07, 14:07

Performance is one thing, Budget is another one

And of course the girl has got all the required knowledge to overclock her cpu, hasn't she ?

The way you made your statement suggested that AMD processors were better for gaming generally - the facts don't really support this argument. I would never argue against anything except getting the best performance at your price limit however. I'm no fanboy of any huge electronics conglomerate. I've bought AMD always in the past, the current machine is the first time I have personally bought intel, simply because what they offered was better. I've bought AMD and nVidia, based on whatever suited at the time. Hell, with boot camp I'd even contemplate an Apple is they weren't so ludicrously priced and limited in hardware selection.

Edit: That said, allowing say £70 (including VAT) for a processor, suggests that the X2 5000+ will do far better gaming than a Core2 Duo E4300/E4400.

Zeninja

21-07-07, 14:33

Well I may be a selfish bastard, but I'm not going to browse the latest benchmark results to compare performance and potential performances versus price just to prove Nymphette will save a couple of euros buying an AMD processor.

I'm all relying on my experience : I may be an has-been old cunt as well, but the fact is Intel has been proposing (for YEARS now) expansive but more reliable cpus versus AMD's cheap cpus that save costs by setting higer frequencies at factory exit. Intel is for 24/24 professional servers, geek-powered PCs with awesome flashy water-cooling boxes, and encoding/acquiring, when AMD is clearly more suitable for average joes who just want to browse the internet and have fun playing the newest videogames without tweaking their BIOS parameters for a decent price.

Thus I insist : buy an AMD processor.

Torg

21-07-07, 16:20

Just recently i started putting up a price-performance comparison sheet of actual processors, AMD vs. Intel. After gathering benchmark results from the likes of Tomshardware and Anandtech and combining those to street prices from national retailers, i dropped my venture. Fact: there's no big difference, if within a few percent. I personally use AMD, but just cause it makes me feel good, geek-wise.

So my advice on a CPU would be a midrange AMD Athlon or Intel Core, no cheap Semprons or Celerons). Dual Core only if you really like to own one. Remember: older games like NC will not be able to use the second core, so it's wasted money until you'd play the latest crop.

On Windows XP or Vista either 1 or 2 GByte of Ram are fine.

Graphics: Dont buy the latest Nvidia Geforce 8xxx series or AMD/ATi Radeon 2xxx. New means expensive. Those "Dx10"-Cards are outrun by older models - in older games. Older games in this respect means: evrything you can buy up to the present day. Get a Geforce 7950, 7900 or 7600 (i'm using the latter, as it's not power-hungry and allows for passive cooling), or a Radeon 1900/1950 or 1600.

My rig has an AMD Athlon 3700+ (single core) at 2500MHz, 2 GByte of cheap DDR Ram and the said GF 7600, no overclocking at all. Running Quake 4, Doom 3 etc at highest graphics settings smoothly, and Oblivion at second-highest without probs.

A Dell, HP or else-branded PC with stats like above should be well within your budget.

uhm. just my opinion.

jini

21-07-07, 16:51

NC's Apple Fanboy #1 strikes again :rolleyes:
and for a reason :p... did you saw/used the new iphone yet? all I can say is, the guy has the Midas touch.

Nymphette: go with Icestorm's suggestion then.beautiful gaming platform

Nymphette79

21-07-07, 16:51

CMaster

21-07-07, 16:53

I have no idea how to overclock in the slightest, the other question i've just thought of is, should I stick my old windows xp on it or buy Vista, the thing that confuse's me with Vista is which one i'd need as there seems loads of choices.
Thanks again all I really appreciate your help
XXX

Stick with XP. There's no hugley compelling reason to go with vista yet (not compelling enough to pay for it) and it still suffers compatability issues.

jini

21-07-07, 16:58

what about the home vista cmas? the most inexpensive ones, just for using dx10? DX10 has any use or no use at all yet? For me, Vista is a disappointment

CMaster

21-07-07, 17:02

what about the home vista cmas? the most inexpensive ones, just for using dx10? DX10 has any use or no use at all yet? For me, Vista is a disappointment

I haven't used it myself yet (save in passing). Just going on what a few friends and aquiantances have said - it's better in a few ways, but still too young. In a year or two it might be worth having. (although if you want a media centre PC, the Vista media centre sounds a lot better than XP's). And when the budget is as tight as we are looking at here, splashing £100+ on an unecessary OS seems foolish.
I haven't heard of any DX10 games being released yet.

Zeninja

21-07-07, 19:38

There's no hugley compelling reason to go with vista yet (not compelling enough to pay for it) and it still suffers compatability issues.
Just why I'm sticking with my good old Sempron 3k (and a Radeon 9800) for the moment. My biggest ressources eaters (Dod and Nc) are still running smoothly.

Why should I waste my money in a 64 bits cpu until I get a chance using a decent 64 bits capable Microsoft OS on it ? I've bought a Pentium D 930 like one year ago though (says the guy who recommands buying AMD procs ^^), but it's for my htpc :p

flib

22-07-07, 03:51

There's no actual point to Vista.

Vista is just XP with a fresh coat of paint and DRM up it's ass.

jini

22-07-07, 05:54

For me, the only HTPC worth having is the mac mini. I am waiting however for a refreshed model to support full HDTV. There is nothing smaller, and more practical than this. Its remote has only 6-7 keys, the ones you need that is...

Vista IS a disappointment. In fact I dont understand what's going on with M$ at this point. 5 years in the making for such an OS? And what about this stupid idea of theirs, the zune?

Zeninja

22-07-07, 08:26

For me, the only HTPC worth having is the mac mini.
Very esthetic choice at least, ergonomic, and reliable ; but I personnaly like to choose my components (e.g dual tuner Terratec as dvb-t card) for medias/encoding and PCs are way more flexible and evolutive in this purpose.

Not to mention I had no other choice than Windows if I wanted to log my ppu/poker instead of alt-tabbing between my 2 accounts on the gaming machine ;)

flib

22-07-07, 10:25

How can Vista be a disappointment if you didn't have any expectations?

Zeninja

22-07-07, 10:27

How can Vista be a disappointment if you didn't have any expectations?
flib 1 - Bill Gates 0 :D

jini

22-07-07, 10:39

Very esthetic choice at least, ergonomic, and reliable ; but I personnaly like to choose my components (e.g dual tuner Terratec as dvb-t card) for medias/encoding and PCs are way more flexible and evolutive in this purpose.

Not to mention I had no other choice than Windows if I wanted to log my ppu/poker instead of alt-tabbing between my 2 accounts on the gaming machine ;)
basically what i have found of using the mini is, that it had replaced a Samsung DVD!!. Thats how practical the mini is. I wake it up in less than a sec from sleep, feed one dvd drive, there is no ugly tray ( alot easier to feed) press the menu on the really small and handy remote, and you play the movie thru HDMI. In contrast, Samsungs remote has i dunno 40 keys, you cant find anything in the dark, you need to turn on the lights, basically you cant stop, rewind or do anything, so you forget it. All you do is play. Between the two, mini is the winner