View Full Version : So...what's happening with the lag?
This whole net code issue for me personally has created an all time low for this game. The clipping is insane at times, I dunno how many times this has been addressed but is there anything going to be done about it, it's laughable at times when someone just goes flying through a building...
any GM response for this please? :confused:
GM ? lol
maybe better ask for a dev?
anyone who can give an answer will do?
Forum GMs can't tell you anything except "Someone is working on that. Possibly."
What KK are doing exactly they won't tell. :(
ashley watts
04-07-07, 21:50
KK's hamster is out of food tbh
Current impression I got from the last thread like this was that:
a) Its seen as the player's fault, because people manipulated the client to cheat and now KK have to do loads more checks for every action, slowing down the update rate for things like movement.
b) They are too afraid to touch the netcode incase their house of cards collapses.
I'd be happy to be proved wrong of course :angel:
Current impression I got from the last thread like this was that:
a) Its seen as the player's fault, because people manipulated the client to cheat and now KK have to do loads more checks for every action, slowing down the update rate for things like movement.
b) They are too afraid to touch the netcode incase their house of cards collapses.
I'd be happy to be proved wrong of course :angel:
Yeah it's always our fault, same as it was our fault when questions were asked about long synchs :rolleyes:
I'd guess wanting to hear a response that meant KK were trying to do something was way out, at the end of the day I think this is something that needs fixing more than most bugs and balance issues, it's making me cringe everytime I fight.
Flame Bait
05-07-07, 05:20
Yeah it's always our fault, same as it was our fault when questions were asked about long synchs :rolleyes:
If you don't have the supercomputing technology the devs test the game with then of course its all your fault. :lol:
KK's hamster is out of food tbh
That may be very true.
Nobody ever said that it's the players fault. We are aware of the problems with the netcode but a rework of this system would mean in-depth source code changes with unforeseeable side effects as many game systems are linked with each other.
We will see how we can improve the whole system in the near future.
We will see how we can improve the whole system in the near future.Translation: "We don't know how to fix it at the moment, in fact we haven't even tried yet. But we will. Sometime. Later. Promised!"
:(
/edit: more thoughts.
Seriously. NC is about pvp. Not totally but it's quite heavily based around pvp. Now why aren't you trying to fix that one aspect that lets NC stand out of all those MMORPGS out there?
The balance patch didn't balance anything. It just shifted the classes and guns around. Now it's other classes and weapons that totally outperform everything else. And those are even worse than before the patch that was supposed to bring balance. And you didn't change one damn thing since then. You just head on to the next thing, leaving balance unfinished.
Then the netcode. Do ANY of you guys ever pvp? Because it's insane. The clipping is so bad, it's close to destroying pvp in general. If you don't do something about that quick, theres not gonna be any pvpers left once you get to it. And then you got a game with pretty crappy pve and nothing else left.
:mad:
If things keep going that way, i'll be hitting 5000 posts with nothing but rants soon. :lol:
Current impression I got from the last thread like this was that:
a) Its seen as the player's fault, because people manipulated the client to cheat and now KK have to do loads more checks for every action, slowing down the update rate for things like movement.
This post surprises and disappoints me, Sel. All I did was explain how the amount of traffic has increased over the years due to exploit prevention measures. That does not mean that it's your fault, nor does it even mean that this is responsible for any perceived lag - it's just extra traffic.
Someone who's been in the community as long as you knows how sensitive we are to the "blame game". We are very careful in this regard.
N
and no, somethings wrong with the NC servers. lagging, clipping, bad syncs taking minutes or failing completely. vehicles disappearing at zonelines and taking five days to show up. it appears as if KK moved the whole game to a cheap strato gaming server rig on a Pentium 3 and 128 MB RAM für financial reasons. i just hope that's not the case. but still, there's a general problem going on. is neocron being DDoSed?
and no, somethings wrong with the NC servers. lagging, clipping, bad syncs taking minutes or failing completely. vehicles disappearing at zonelines and taking five days to show up. it appears as if KK moved the whole game to a cheap strato gaming server rig on a Pentium 3 and 128 MB RAM für financial reasons. i just hope that's not the case. but still, there's a general problem going on. is neocron being DDoSed?
The server really is acting up atm. For quite a few days now.
But that's rather annoying than a serious issue.
I can't really believe that just the increased amount of traffic between the server and client is the reason for the shitty netcode we have now.
It just seems the server doesn't refresh peoples position often enough. And seriously that can't be the problem. Pretty much everyone got a fast connection these days that could probably handle much more without any problems.
Just because a few idiots keep using dial up connections for a supposedly better ping doesn't mean KK shouldn't up the position refresh rate. They could at least just try something and see if it helps. If not, it should be easy to revert. :rolleyes:
I think the main reason for all this lag crap is locational armour.
Server having to do waaay more calculations for a single entity.
*Cough* Take away locational armours *Cough*
*Cough* Take away locational armours *Cough*
Thats pretty much the only thing i LIKE about 2.2..
EDIT:
But something really IS wrong with the server, most ppl have been getting insane syncs and shit like that lately. And ofc theres the netcode :rolleyes:
This post surprises and disappoints me, Sel. All I did was explain how the amount of traffic has increased over the years due to exploit prevention measures. That does not mean that it's your fault, nor does it even mean that this is responsible for any perceived lag - it's just extra traffic.
Someone who's been in the community as long as you knows how sensitive we are to the "blame game". We are very careful in this regard.
N
I think you mis-interpreted my post (Or perhaps I inferred something I didn't mean to). I knew you had mentioned that in the previous thread so I was pointing out that 'its seen as the players fault', as a fact rather than an opinion from either side. Since the client now checks more for exploits as well as things like locational damage and other enhancements, it could be said in general that the players who exploited are responsible for this problem.
I'm not trying to put those words in your mouth, hence why I said 'its seen as', rather than 'KK blames the players for' ;)
Sorry for the confusion, but since this could be the key technical reason for the problem people experience, I thought it was worth exploring.
In fact, I was reading about this very issue on The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/21/hacking_mmorpgs/) the other day as it mentions the same problem Wow has by running some parts of the game on the client's PC. I suppose traditionally that is why MMORPGs developed the more turn-based click and wait combat that many of us so despise, and that which was the key selling point of Neocron. It has always been the blessing and curse with which you have to contend with!
Addendum - I think what would be interesting from your point of view would be for KK to run some tests of the entire network and hardware chain from a user's PC to the Server at Level 3 (?) to see where some problems are, such as:
- Hard Drive response times for user's PCs, Ram etc
- Broadband Speed offered by providers
- Latency and packet loss problems that have increased exponentially in the last 3 years as the whole world has come online (I know this is a problem with my supplier, Virgin, for instance).
- Link times between the main datacenters and Level 3
- Server performance at peak times, dealing with the increased traffic Neocron now generates.
The point I am trying to make is that if you cannot alter the netcode and mechanisms built into Neocron which cause the lag (and also 0 sl logins etc) for fear of causing damage, perhaps you can identify a key structural component that could be improved to help the problem. For example by increasing the CPU / Ram / HD Seek power of your Servers, or advising us to use certain broadband suppliers with good contention ratios.
What do you think about this?
- Hard Drive response times for user's PCs, Ram etc
- Broadband Speed offered by providers
- Latency and packet loss problems that have increased exponentially in the last 3 years as the whole world has come online (I know this is a problem with my supplier, Virgin, for instance).
- Link times between the main datacenters and Level 3
- Server performance at peak times, dealing with the increased traffic Neocron now generates.
Quality of ISP seems to become more important. Since joining to the German DSL net is going up every year it seems to cause increasing problems for the Telekom so maintain reasonable stability in some locations. Read posts in which someone was grateful for every neighbour who do not want to have a connection :rolleyes:
On the other side Neocron seems to be extraordinary sensitive to ISP quality issues because same ppl do not have any of this worse effects at other MMOs....???
.
- Latency and packet loss problems that have increased exponentially in the last 3 years as the whole world has come online
Good work Sel, we've finally found out who was hiding behind these lag picks : the Third-World.
Most of the time, terrorists supported by Lag Kaïda using 28k modems from their huts in Africa just to spoil our fun, while they persecute enslaved pedaling civilians to provide enough electric power since all the uranium is already in use for nukes.
you knows how sensitive we are
So are your servers apparently :rolleyes:
I'm no expert on it, but even though broadband companies have trumpetted faster broadband speeds like 8mb in the UK, the actual performance as I understand it has dropped considerably since so many residents got connected in the last couple of years - the contention ratio basically.
But like I said, a thorough test by KK right accross the chain from multiple countries could ascertain if there was a weak link either in network or hardware terms that we or they could throw some money at.
In fact look, CCP have asked their community to help with that kind of thing recently in this blog (http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=476)
I'm no expert on it, but even though broadband companies have trumpetted faster broadband speeds like 8mb in the UK, the actual performance as I understand it has dropped considerably since so many residents got connected in the last couple of years - the contention ratio basically.
I'm not an expert either, but, playing from the North of France (closer from the servers than you are) the only serious lag I've experienced was back in the days the NC1 population hitted 250 to 350 players on venus (that was described as an empty server... funny :)).
Actually it really improved for me around 2.0 release, even though during a brief period (a few weeks I'd say) I noticed that my latency was sometimes reaching 1000-1500 on Pandora for a couple of seconds, and so did german buddies of mine at the same time.
But, starting from 2.2 release I've been constantly experiencing weird synchs (and warps), which is not necessarily related to bandwidth or any kind of network problems.
Thats pretty much the only thing i LIKE about 2.2..
Amazingly, I don't see enough difference to make me like something that wastes game bandwidth.
And if it is indeed causing the lag/clip, is it really worth using in the game?
Thats fine, so if its proven that our connections are fine, then KK can look closer down the chain at their connection through Level 3 to their Server(s?) and also how well the server is coping with the requests made of it by the software.
I'm just trying find some kind of solution if its not going to be possible to change the coding.
Amazingly, I don't see enough difference to make me like something that wastes game bandwidth.
And if it is indeed causing the lag/clip, is it really worth using in the game?
Bandwith is probably not the main problem - been said before, that 2.2 traffic only insignificantly differs from pre 2.2.
Extensive serverside calculations, db issues, server hardware and/or the 'design' of the 'worldservers' are more likely to cause the grief.
Although no one -apart from KK- can tell whats really the bottleneck that causes this. Thus it aint really worth debating about this issue or trying to track it down. :)
Serious_Sam
06-07-07, 22:18
Its getting to the point where its probably better for KK to take the game and servers offline, put all the accounts on hold, and take your time in fixing the stability of the servers. Forget the game code for a second, lets make sure the very foundation of the game's functionality is able to run efficiently.
That's the dumbest idea I've ever heard.
Its getting to the point where its probably better for KK to take the game and servers offline, put all the accounts on hold, and take your time in fixing the stability of the servers. Forget the game code for a second, lets make sure the very foundation of the game's functionality is able to run efficiently.
....
I dont think that anyone would want to play NC again, after a 5 year forced break tbh.
Asurmen Spec Op
06-07-07, 22:41
Save the hamsters!
Serious_Sam
06-07-07, 22:51
It may be dumb, Dog, but at least its a productive suggestion. Of course i don't expect it to happen, as some people enjoy playing a broken game. I would rather wait until it's fixed.
Ru-Just-RU
07-07-07, 00:23
increasing the CPU / Ram / HD Seek power of your Servers, or advising us to use certain broadband suppliers with good contention ratios.
What do you think about this?
yea, yea.... Clusters (10-20 PC`s) (4x Intel Xeon MP Paxville/64 Gb ram/raid 00 massives...) and Satelite internet with dedicated Satellite...
probably all problems will be solved.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Serious_Sam
07-07-07, 00:35
I don't know if its something i should base an opinion on, but on KKs website they have a picture of a very snazzy and hi-tech looking server office. But i guess at this point the wiring is all fucked and there are nests of cockroaches all over the place.
I don't know if its something i should base an opinion on, but on KKs website they have a picture of a very snazzy and hi-tech looking server office. But i guess at this point the wiring is all fucked and there are nests of cockroaches all over the place.
It's a picture they found on the World of Warcraft website :p
But i guess at this point the wiring is all fucked and there are nests of cockroaches all over the place.
Cockroaches are very helpful creatures as they help the decomposition process of dead leaves in forests and jungles.
Therefore they could be just as helpful in an office environment.
Cockroaches are very helpful creatures as they help the decomposition process of dead leaves in forests and jungles.
Therefore they could be just as helpful in an office environment.
You learn something new everyday :angel:
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.