View Full Version : [MERGED]New Soullight Announcement Discussion
Have i got this right Snow that almost everybody on here wanted a reword of the Sl system and you just COMPLETeLY fuckd it over, and i mean COMPLETELY, we cant gain sould light for killing other runner? Are you mad?
So basically if i accidently kill a friend im fuckd for about a week unless i want to run missions that require time and effort and the chance of being killed.
You brought out a good patch then absolutly ruined it with this, sorry but if that gets released then thats me gone from the game =/ and it takes alot for me to go :mad:
Dribble Joy
19-06-07, 16:20
I'm not sure I like this (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?p=2086521#post2086521).
Aside from any comments about carebearage, with the new faction system coming out SL will increasingly be a poor mechanism to represent 'good' and 'bad' in the game.
I can only hope that a symp based one will be implemented later on.
"by the auto regeneration feature."
How fast is this auto-regen? I liked the old system (NC1/NC2 transition period) where I could kill any red and get something out of it other than an empty belt.
I can see some people not being happy with that. Some poeople like to play the PK'er and live on the edge of loosing their stuff to get their SL fixed killing reds.
I think we need to hear what KK's plans are with this, this change doesn't look like the whole picture.
It would be fine if it only takes about 24 hours to go from -100sl to 0 then ok ill be happy, but still this is FUCKED up completely :mad:
fuckd for about a week unless i want to run missions that require time and effort and the chance of being killed.
So in other words you want to be able to force other people to go through time and effort (waiting off SI, replacing lost items, getting repairs, returning to the same place, etc etc), yet you don't want this to have any penalty on yourself if they were under the impression you could be considered friendly?
Now that said, I don't think this is a good solution. People who jump into AoE attacks. The simple fact that the current SL system is screwed up anyhow.
Archtemplar
19-06-07, 16:28
oh boy, another time sink :o
It would be fine if it only takes about 24 hours to go from -100sl to 0 then ok ill be happy, but still this is FUCKED up completely :mad:
Then what good is an SL-system if they make it how you suggest here... afaik it's pretty hard to get -100. I got -98 on many, cuz of changing factions long ago.... but other than that
Then what good is an SL-system if they make it how you suggest here... afaik it's pretty hard to get -100. I got -98 on many, cuz of changing factions long ago.... but other than that
Btw from reading your other thread you are a returning vet, so you probably dont know that if you have 100SL and you kill 1 ally even if he has red SL you will go from +100 to 0 then another will take you to about -42sl it was changed just before evol 2.1 i think i cant quite remember
Btw from reading your other thread you are a returning vet, so you probably dont know that if you have 100SL and you kill 1 ally even if he has red SL you will go from +100 to 0 then another will take you to about -42sl it was changed just before evol 2.1 i think i cant quite remember
I've been gone for quite some time, so I don't know how it works right now. 100 > 0 > -42 is erm... retarded. I guess I'll stay away from this discussion till I know more about the mechanics nowadays ;)
Archtemplar
19-06-07, 16:34
IF SL regenerates while offline that'd be great, but otherwise what's the fucking point? We log in to play the game, not to be afk for hours. And missions? If its too low we'd get ganked by copbots and players. Psh, sacrifice gameplay to fix minor exploitation, congrats.
Wow, hmm, whats the saying, One step forward two steps backwards? This is seriously not going to go over so well. So now you will be completely fucked when you accidentally lose all your SL, unless they increase the amount of SL you gain back from doing missions which is currently at one sl per mission :wtf: It's almost as if KK want less pvp. Why else would they do this? You can say goodbye to any pvp in anything but a warzone now. You know how often you might accidentally hit another ally in PP1 while fighting enemies there, and that one accidental hit will drop you from 100 SL to zero SL. Not to mention if you do this twice how completely fucked you will be.
CMaster makes another good point about aoe and people leveling and if you wanted to you could really ruin someones day or week as it will now be. There is so much more potential for abuse now.
The population is already steadily decreasing, this most certainly will not help.
Dribble Joy
19-06-07, 16:42
*Rants about a symp only system...*
Archtemplar
19-06-07, 16:43
This angers and frustrates me. Not just because of how stupidly retarded it is, but because they choose to fuck us over rather than fix balancing.
There should be a severe punishment for Ally Pkrs who kill Allys on purpose but IMO it was too harsh as it is already, but for us people who just like to pvp and some times fire stray shots off on a person that runs in front of you your absolutly screwed.
Anyway KK untighten your asses and accept that SL exploiting will always be in unless you sacrifice gameplay, put the SL system to how it was or put it to the NC1 system and just leave it, its causes no harm and makes the game more enjoyable
Fucking Rideculous is all im going to say. Only patch that has got me so PISSED off.
I'm not sure I like this (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?p=2086521#post2086521).
With this change in place, the flaws of the current SL system will become even more obvious... lets see how long until a proper attempt is being made to fix this game mechanism :)
Threads merged, name adjusted. Remember to keep it civil, please.
Triv
Threads merged, name adjusted. Remember to keep it civil, please.
Triv
Civil? That went out of the window with the announcement mate :rolleyes:
Meh ive had enuf with my ranting, i dont normally do it, but this has got me very pissed off, please dont implement it unless there is something you rnt telling us, in which case, fucking tell us......
Worst move ever...
Now maybe people will run into people for them to lose sl. Have fun fixing it : )
Atm, you should either leave it! Or change it again, and stop making it so retardly carebear. The old sl system was alot better then this tbh.
Do you devs actually play this game. It wont work :mad:
well this is gonna be quite funny.. so who's gonna stop people from attacking allies without any armour/resists and getting pwned in 1/2 shots when the poor fucker tries defending themselves... you'll get the same problem with people running into the AoE of anyone lvling without an LE as well.. then there's the retards that run inbetween fights on low lvl chars ruining the pvp and now they'll ruin our SL for more than the 10 mins it takes to put it back the way it should be...
and please DON'T even try saying "we'll ban them" cause anyone with sense will know the only reason you're doing this is to stop people exploiting their SL to 100
spikeownzu
19-06-07, 17:47
if neocron was a more "advanced" game, then it would't be so bad, but when you can just zone from a pvp zone to a hunting zone and avoid being killed, it prevents a soul-light system from working properly, thats why you can't have huge soul-light penalty's, kk don't seem to understand this. Theres nothing more annoying then having to lose a huge amount of SL just to kill somebody who you don't like...
this new soullight system just makes the game more like wow....
The modifications that have been mentioned in the announcement are just a part of a whole package to improve the current Soullight situation. The announcement was meant to inform you in advance about these specific changes. We are taking your concerns very seriously and have taken these into consideration for the changes to the Soullight system. This relates especially to the possibilities to abuse the Soullight system. More details about the further changes will be published on release of the patch in the patch notes as usual.
Awesome.
Hooray for griefing. Goodbye pvp.
fucking the already shitty system over even more until it finally is gonna get changed is unbelievably stupid.
The patch is gonna be when? 2 months? By then, there's not gonna be anyone left who could care about the new system.
:mad:
Ishmael/Mystic
19-06-07, 18:00
Have they never seen some rank 0/2 run round MB/PP trying to die?
Have they never seen some rank 0/2 run round MB/PP trying to die?
Seeing most pvp only takes place in pp1 these days, we won't even need noobs to abuse the new rules.
At least once a night i lose SL because i hit someone in a chaotic fight in pp1 and then can't zone before he dies. So i'll be royally fucked now. :mad:
Please don't do this. Seriously. It's the end of proper pvp.
make it so that you cant lose soullight by killing someone with a lower rank than xx/30 or something? just an idea :)
Mighty Max
19-06-07, 18:10
make it so that you cant lose soullight by killing someone with a lower rank than xx/30 or something? just an idea :)
Very very bad idea tbh.
make it so that you cant lose soullight by killing someone with a lower rank than xx/30 or something? just an idea :)
Open to griefing I could repeativly ally-kill a xx/29 at a camped GR without penalty.
Still this SL problem is not easy to fix.
1. Something needs to be done about accidental misfire in say PP1 PvP fights. (Easy one)
2. Something needs to done to stop 0/2 idiots griefing leveling players/PvP'ers. (Not so easy to fix)
It's so like the devs dont actually play the game.. wtf is this shit.
Who do you get these suggestions of ressi blade or soming?
Open to griefing I could repeativly ally-kill a xx/29 at a camped GR without penalty.
Still this SL problem is not easy to fix.
1. Something needs to be done about accidental misfire in say PP1 PvP fights. (Easy one)
2. Something needs to done to stop 0/2 idiots griefing leveling players/PvP'ers. (Not so easy to fix)
Easiest solution: Keep things the way they are, then implement the whole damn new thing at once. It's not perfect but at least there's some pvp left.
Sounds a lot better than fucking over pvp for an unknown amount of time and then later patching the rest.
One step forward two steps backwards?Beat me to it :|
Perhaps there are other imminent changes we don't know about - are the SL hits going to be as strong as they are now? Scaled? If this is part of wider changes, why introduce them in small installments? You wouldn't balance weapons one weapon or class at a time, so why a system that can make people unable to play the game if they're either griefed or taunted sufficiently to warrant a response? I'd say a good chunk of people who are ally ganked deserve it in one way or another, this game isn't without its scumbags.
What happens if an unskilled runner attacks a skilled runner, with a serious intent to kill? The better player who wins the fight gets punished? What happens if a griefing clan pops into existence and you so happen to be allied to that faction?
If indeed there are more modifications to the SL system to come about in the same patch then I'd politely request you let us know... even if it's a "there is something else, but we can't tell you". I genuinely, really have tried to understand this being introduced on its own, but I can't quite fathom it.
Mighty Max
19-06-07, 19:26
Easiest solution: Keep things the way they are, then implement the whole damn new thing at once. It's not perfect but at least there's some pvp left.
You might want to reread the post (Snows) just before your first one.
You might want to reread the post (Snows) just before your first one.
What he says basically is that there's gonna be more changes in the future but for now (and god knows how long until the next patch) they will just fuck over pvp with that one first change.
Now where does that not fuck pvp over for now?
Mighty Max
19-06-07, 19:33
What he says basically is that there's gonna be more changes in the future but for now (and god knows how long until the next patch) they will just fuck over pvp with that one first change.
Now where does that not fuck pvp over for now?
It says that is is the very same patch that brings exactly this change.
Between "The next patch" and "The next patch" lies exactly 0 time.
ashley watts
19-06-07, 19:35
Well no offence but what chenoa said is fucking wank, i somhow sense PvP will slowly die if thats implemented.
They could try these (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=139849) ideas :angel:
It says that is is the very same patch that brings exactly this change.
Between "The next patch" and "The next patch" lies exactly 0 time.
I don't read it that way.
Because if the next patch already brought the whole SL system overhaul, they would've said that.
What they said is with the next patch it's gonna be a lot harder to regain SL. And after that there's gonna be more changes.
Mighty Max
19-06-07, 19:43
I don't read it that way.
Because if the next patch already brought the whole SL system overhaul, they would've said that.
Like this?
These modifications are just a part of a whole package to improve the current Soullight situation. The announcement is meant to inform you in advance about these specific changes. We are taking your concerns very seriously and have taken these into consideration for the changes to the Soullight system. This relates especially to the possibilities to abuse the Soullight system. More details about the further changes will be published on release of the patch in the patch notes as usual.
===
Ashley, what did Chenoa say?
Indeed, re-reading what Snowcrash said, it does sound like there is more to come - possibly in the same patch. I hope that's the case.
I don't read it that way.
Because if the next patch already brought the whole SL system overhaul, they would've said that.
What they said is with the next patch it's gonna be a lot harder to regain SL. And after that there's gonna be more changes.
as i said in another thread.
u may have serious problems with your eyes :P
If KK are going into the bullshit excuse of "we rnt going to reveal anything as of yet" then thats another big mistake, tell us the whole picture before your community leaves.
If it isnt broke, dont try and fix it :mad:
If it isnt broke, dont try and fix it :mad:
but..but.. ...it IS fubared.
not saying it can't be made worse.. but there's plenty of room to the better.
ashley watts
19-06-07, 20:53
Like this?
===
Ashley, what did Chenoa say?
Sorry meant Snowcrash :p, luv u chenoa, i cant edit my posts for some reason o0
[ edited ]
little Harsh but true :p
Serious_Sam
19-06-07, 20:58
Can anyone here tell us what the German community thinks of this proposal? I'd be interested in knowing.
mostly the same as you guys...
but personally i'll just wait before i call it quits and see what the sl-patch brings...
*Rants about a symp only system...*
*supports*
Ok, this is getting out of hand. You only know half the story so hang fire with the insults at least for the time being. All we're doing right now is giving you advanced warning to do what you have to do now to fix your SL before it gets harder to do so.
I won't tolerate any more flaming on this thread so keep it civil. This isn't a request.
N
Ok, this is getting out of hand. You only know half the story so hang fire with the insults at least for the time being. All we're doing right now is giving you advanced warning to do what you have to do now to fix your SL before it gets harder to do so.
I won't tolerate any more flaming on this thread so keep it civil. This isn't a request.
N
Nick the only thing ill be fixing is cancelling my 2 accounts. Advance warning to quit the game kk thanks
Nid you have to see it the way we do, we were given an announcement that to us sounded like the death of neocron screwed pvp anyway, if what you say is correct, that there is another half of the story then this announcement shud of waited untill you can reveal the other half.
You guys rele need to see that.
It's clear from Snow's original announcement that there's another side of the story. I can understand that you're concerned that we're taking away a crutch, but just wait to see if we're fixing the reason for having it in the first place before going off on one.
N
I will hold you to that Mr Milner! ;)
I will hold you to that Mr Milner! ;)
I'll be here. :p
N
What Goes thru kk head when they think about implemting these features....WE SAY NO!!!!! Then they do it WTF???
in the past everybody and their little sister complained about the soullight system and how broken it was. now that KK is going to throw manpower at the subject, players want to cancel their accounts. how stupid will this get?
up to the present day the dedicated killer was in a superior position. in the future you'll probably need to take care. i believe there will be a way to have fun by killing people even after the next patch. but maybe not by griefing minors at level spots. after all, i'm quite curious about the changes to come.
This.. is prob THE most stupid thing ive EVER heard, wtf is going on inside KKs head?!
Well, im canceling both my accounts, theres no way in hell that im gonna play some carebear bullshit.. :mad:
post some more details about that SL shit, or expect to loose 50% of your customers, all there will be left are the LEd idiots, and ppl like mighty max :lol:
EDIT: accounts canceled. Downloading Planetside again :angel:
Mighty Max
19-06-07, 23:31
Well i think it's sad when ppl leave.
Alltho i think it is better if the player just need to insult others out of nothing.
Was this needed? Yes? Don't let the door hit ya! Bye.
Ok, this is getting out of hand. You only know half the story so hang fire with the insults at least for the time being. All we're doing right now is giving you advanced warning to do what you have to do now to fix your SL before it gets harder to do so.
I won't tolerate any more flaming on this thread so keep it civil. This isn't a request.
N
Wouldn't it be better to fix it for everyone yourselves (ie. have an SL amnesty and reset all negative SL's to 0). This way you avoid problems with people who don't currently have active accounts right now, but come back at a later date, only to find that they're completely screwed over because of choices they made under a completely different system?
If you guys are serious in reforming the game to bring populations back, I believe that the only realistic route is to reset SL as above, not say to people who come back at a later date "oh we gave you warning when we made the change". It is you who drove them away, it is only you who can bring them back!
EDIT: accounts canceled. Downloading Planetside again :angel:
Sorry to hear it, forum account retired.
N
in the past everybody and their little sister complained about the soullight system and how broken it was. now that KK is going to throw manpower at the subject, players want to cancel their accounts. how stupid will this get? if you put that in more detail it would seem a lot less stupid.... in the past everybody and their little sister complained it was too easy to get fucked over by the soullight system and end up really low when it wasn't your fault, now that KK is going to stop people from having any way (besides an unthinkable timesink) from getting their SL back to normal, players want to cancel their accounts.
better for you?
If you guys are serious in reforming the game to bring populations back, I believe that the only realistic route is to reset SL as above, not say to people who come back at a later date "oh we gave you warning when we made the change". It is you who drove them away, it is only you who can bring them back!the same goes for faction symps, everything below 0 should be changed to 0.. i've seen countless people give up on returning to nc cause it was so much effort trying to get all the people they wanted in the same clan, in the same faction because in nc1 and early nc2 it was really easy to change your faction symps by killing people/npcs
anyway all is not lost TBH, i'll just make an EVUL GANKERS only clan (CM would work nicely), go around killing everyone and not give two fucks about the SL, if anyone kills one of us they fuck up their SL for the next 3 weeks, nice one.... DIE OR LOSE UR SL! (and probably die after anyway cause i doubt i'll be alone)
Well, im canceling both my accounts, theres no way in hell that im gonna play some carebear bullshit.. :mad: what if everyone just accepted WE'RE ALL EVIL and played with whatever red SL we end up with, you drop 5 things in your belt and ppl don't need to hack.... BIG DEAL? that hardly sounds carebear to me =]
So basically if i accidently kill a friend im fuckd for about a week unless i want to run missions that require time and effort and the chance of being killed.Isn't that the status quo right now? So what do you do to raise your soullight atm?
Serious_Sam
20-06-07, 00:40
Ok, this is gonna sound incredibly carebear-ish, but what about considering no aggressive interaction between allies? Only positive buffs? *hides*
Isn't that the status quo right now? So what do you do to raise your soullight atm?
I think im actually one of the people that dont exploit for their SL back, if i have say -52 SL (i dont normally go below that because im not a full on ally ganker) i just go kill some antis in pp1 or around regants. But because that will now be disabled and i will no longer be able to fix my SL by doing what i love in this game, im forced to either wait it out or do some silly time sink missions which wont hold my attention long enuf for me to finish it, i will simply log out.
Ok, this is gonna sound incredibly carebear-ish, but what about considering no aggressive interaction between allies? Only positive buffs? *hides*
Tbh there isn't enough players in this game to allow that, thats why players decide to become 'EVUL ALLY GANKERS LAEL' because the low population can sometimes mean less targets.
WoW fucking sucks, its why we play neocron.
This is the most bullshit proposition i've ever heard... lets not ruin the game for people getting killed that were too stupid to pull their le, but lets ruin it for everyone that has someone jump in their aoe, wasting 5 minutes of time getting repoked or rezzed, and make them afk for a week because the missions in the game are impossible to do seeing as gaurds attack you when you have bad soul light.
Maybe if you're going to take away the only viable way of returning soullight after losing it (killing enemy runners) you should add in another at the same time.
Apocalypsox
20-06-07, 05:12
I have two realisations for this thread!
1.) Fastest growing thread in a long time.
2.) Thread that has pissed most people off in a short amount of time :lol:
I have two realisations for this thread!
1.) Fastest growing thread in a long time.
2.) Thread that has pissed most people off in a short amount of time :lol:
You could expect that.
Posting an annoucement only saying "no more SL from anything other than shitty missions" and not saying A WORD about any other changes that might actually justify that change was the best thing they could've done to piss people off.
All i get from the announcement is exactly that. No more +SL from killing but still -SL from even only accidently hitting an ally. Is that it? Other changes with that patch? Or another patch? And when's that gonna be?
They said 2 to 3 month for the whole rework, that's a good half year according to KKs usual speed.
Ah well, i'll wait and see. I don't really care that much because i usually have 100 SL from pvp.
Ok, this is gonna sound incredibly carebear-ish, but what about considering no aggressive interaction between allies? Only positive buffs? *hides*
It sounds incredibly stupid to me. This would kill dueling (informal or events, eg. fight nights) and what about op wars? How are you going to deal with taking allied ops? And don't even think of saying we should prevent that too, or what happens when one faction takes the entire map? No allies can op war at all?
And that's not to even mention allied clans at war with each other.
The modifications that have been mentioned in the announcement are just a part of a whole package to improve the current Soullight situation. The announcement was meant to inform you in advance about these specific changes. We are taking your concerns very seriously and have taken these into consideration for the changes to the Soullight system. This relates especially to the possibilities to abuse the Soullight system. More details about the further changes will be published on release of the patch in the patch notes as usual.
The proposed modifications will only kill the game.
One way or another, intentionally or not, you lose SL. Period. Don't expect me and say, 10-20% of the players to wait patiently the stupid auto regen for week(s) in TH tables, just for slow SL raise. People will finally find a real reason to leave for good. If you lose another 10-20% of what you have right now will simply mean you have gone below critical mass for anything to happen.
Throw those stupid ideas away and just find a decent SL system that works, picking from ideas already on the loose. Also, give us FINALLY the opportunities to differentiate for real, by declaring war against -ANY- clan, green or red which will have 0 IMPACT in SL... :rolleyes:
Well, seeing as we were told that balancing would be finished befopre anything else, but we now have a game that is still unbalanced and no action apparently being taken, seeing as we were told item tracking was about to go in and then about 18 months of silence, seeing as there is a history of this kind of thing, excuse me for not having any faith that the second stage will actually happen. KK has a good history of doing that first bit but never quite finishing off.
Well, seeing as we were told that balancing would be finished befopre anything else, but we now have a game that is still unbalanced and no action apparently being taken, seeing as we were told item tracking was about to go in and then about 18 months of silence, seeing as there is a history of this kind of thing, excuse me for not having any faith that the second stage will actually happen. KK has a good history of doing that first bit but never quite finishing off.
That is exactly my biggest gripe with the whole announcement. A huge fuck up for now and later - whenever that would be - the complete fix.
Knowing KK we will be stuck with an even shittier system for months now. :mad:
Cant KK put the full announcement up once you can say it all and then open a Poll and we can all vote insted of just shoveing it in because 'You' think its good when actaully none of you actaully play this game properly
Thinking about it, ditching the soullight system completely would be a better move, and have your belt hackability based on your current Faction Symp.
It also would suit the new forthcoming F6.
Keep one of the rules - you gain +5 FS for killing your enermies.
Now for covering the "killing allies by accident" and the "ally ganker". Make it so you don't go down from 100 FS to zero.
Best way is to say have a maximum penalty of say 10 FS loss, based on how much damage you did to the player. So if you completely filled your ally with bullets, you loose 10FS as you did 100% damage to the player. If you do 10% or less damage, you just loose 1 FS. For neutrals you loose upto 5 FS, and again 1 FS if you do 10% or less damage.
These rules would apply in all sectors, except outpost sectors which are warzones. In warzones, you do not loose or gain FS.
I'm sure someone has sugguested something like this before, but I'm just braindumping. (And also I can't be bothered to post what I feel about the announcement, as everyone has said what I would probably say)
Yeh but then there is nothing stopping ally ganking. So they kill 10 allies, loose 100 FS. They then symp bitch 20 kills and back up to 100 FS, just like the SL system.
Dribble Joy
20-06-07, 14:15
I've said it many times, though a more complete form is here (http://forum.neocron.com/showpost.php?p=2077979&postcount=14).
Capping the rate of symp gain and also basing symp gain (but not loss) on level would help against abuse.
so what get red SL big deal if u wanna be a ganker then prepare to live like one and not to be able to kill green freely and then have 100 SL.
u wanna shot greens u should live with it.
if it happens by mistake well be more carefull, its not to big a deal having bad sl anyways so u loose 5 items well if u got red sl dont use ur best shit how about that use all the crappy 1 slotters u got around and if u dont want to run around with red sl do missions.
sure u might by accident shoot someone once thats green to u without noticing but if u do that enough to get below 50 or whatever sl then ur either stupid or shooting them on purpose.
ANd if u see that u by accident shoot someone green then you zone and u wont loose sl
so what get red SL big deal if u wanna be a ganker then prepare to live like one and not to be able to kill green freely and then have 100 SL.
u wanna shot greens u should live with it.
if it happens by mistake well be more carefull, its not to big a deal having bad sl anyways so u loose 5 items well if u got red sl dont use ur best shit how about that use all the crappy 1 slotters u got around and if u dont want to run around with red sl do missions.
sure u might by accident shoot someone once thats green to u without noticing but if u do that enough to get below 50 or whatever sl then ur either stupid or shooting them on purpose.
ANd if u see that u by accident shoot someone green then you zone and u wont loose slOh come on, you're often enough in PP1 to know how easy it is to accidently lose SL.
And it's not like you only lose a bit. You go straight to 0 from 100 or way below if your SL isn't that high.
Not to mention you can't chase all those sissies into the countless leveling zones in pp1 and finish them off. They're safe in there then. It's like KK just added another million safezones.
We could then actually all meet at crp and use the cave entrance for pvp zonewhoring. It's open space at least. :lol:
This proposed system got so many obvious flaws that its silly. And I doubt it would even be any fun to play it. Kaboom, one aoe and suddenly lost everything. Sure, they probably might intend to lower the penalties abit but still. However, the current system got loads of exploit holes too.
So, this is what I propose. Lower the penalties considerably and try to find a way around the retards running into your aoe, then suicides at a mob to make you go red. Remove all the SL bonuses from killing NPCs, also make it so you can still kill players to regain SL but let it be done with a max gain like you can only gain SL from a guy once every 30 mins or so.
People would still be able to run around and fight enemies to get SL back but they wouldnt be able to do the exploits they do now. Sure, if someone is really crafty they can get a bunch of friends to login but since its quite alot of work with enough people to make it worth it, I doubt anyone would.
ashley watts
20-06-07, 17:36
so what get red SL big deal if u wanna be a ganker then prepare to live like one and not to be able to kill green freely and then have 100 SL.
u wanna shot greens u should live with it.
if it happens by mistake well be more carefull, its not to big a deal having bad sl anyways so u loose 5 items well if u got red sl dont use ur best shit how about that use all the crappy 1 slotters u got around and if u dont want to run around with red sl do missions.
sure u might by accident shoot someone once thats green to u without noticing but if u do that enough to get below 50 or whatever sl then ur either stupid or shooting them on purpose.
ANd if u see that u by accident shoot someone green then you zone and u wont loose sl
Correct , you only lose 5 items, bearing in mind that your in clan that will give all the freebies that you lose when you die, not everyone has that privelage and im sure pretty much everyone is pissed off with the current SL settings :p
I'd like to add 3 points.
- Why is this now so important while the balancing project dies a silent death? I haven't seen a big 'fix sl' thread for quite a while.
- PLEASE put proper clan wars in at the same time, its so needed.
- What will be done about the SL loss bug that happens to droners, mine got this again the other day, and if you are making SL gain hard its quite a nasty punishment for that class.
Tbh that wud be a perfect pvp place where everyone had red SL and dropepd 5 items and th belts wernt hackable :D i dunno bout any1 else but i wud love that but tbh it will never happen + guards constantly shooting you wen tryig nto buy ammo is a pain in the ass
- PLEASE put proper clan wars in at the same time, its so needed.
I have a feeling this will happen in the same patch
okay the more i think about this idea the more i'm loving it :D
we're all gonna end up red SL, it's enevitable.. and i know i'm not doing any fucking gay missions to get it back up..
imagine everyone being red SL.. it would TOTALLY sort out the problem of not being able to find anyone to fight (10 page long NPCD list? =]) .. people say they used to love it in nc1 how items just dropped to the floor instead of having to hack a belt.. well now it's even better than that, they drop an openable belt with a fair bit of stuff =]
the only thing that would get annoying is dropping belts in warzones/opfights... eitherway, anyone saying this change is carebear, is the carebear ffs =]
Who is up for getting red SL now then :cool: even tho i think ill still end up running round with an ARS lol :D
Silverbird
20-06-07, 18:46
Hm, one suggestion which might adress the whole SL / Ally PK'ing issue:
Blood money .
You off someone outside a warzone, you do not loose your SL right away, but a grace period of let's say 24 hrs starts to count down. Within that
grace period, the victim has to receive monetary compensation via a GM
or an automated NPC from the 'perp'( should be possible to script something like that into the game ), whereby the amount of blood money increases with the difference in ranking. Once the 'score' is settled that way, no SL loss occurs. If the clock winds down without squaring matters, SL loss takes effect.
Yes, the oh-so-brave noob-molesters still can go on offing low level runners, but they be running outta dough or SL pretty fast that way, wheras those
just having a good PvP slugfest have ample time sorting it out.
Looking at the logfiles and all that stuff, I'd say that NC2 software tracks
and records more stuff than KGB and CIA combined, so determining who did what when to whom oughta be fairly easy...
Alright, seems it's on retail. Not sure though, never really cared much about actual SL losses.
Just lost 10 SL and nothing else for killing a neutral, then gained 5 SL each for killing reds. Or is that how it was? :lol:
okay the more i think about this idea the more i'm loving it :D
we're all gonna end up red SL, it's enevitable.. and i know i'm not doing any fucking gay missions to get it back up..
imagine everyone being red SL.. it would TOTALLY sort out the problem of not being able to find anyone to fight (10 page long NPCD list? =]) .. people say they used to love it in nc1 how items just dropped to the floor instead of having to hack a belt.. well now it's even better than that, they drop an openable belt with a fair bit of stuff =]
the only thing that would get annoying is dropping belts in warzones/opfights... eitherway, anyone saying this change is carebear, is the carebear ffs =]
Yeah i can see it now, half the server quiting because they lost their stuff and can't get it back... in a few months it'd just be you :D wouldn't that be fun!? No that I'm carebear, I just thinking someone losing their WOC PA, and maybe two rares is going to quit pretty soon. I'd just be smart and keep my sl at 100 then hack all your belts :D
Alright, seems it's on retail. Not sure though, never really cared much about actual SL losses.
Just lost 10 SL and nothing else for killing a neutral, then gained 5 SL each for killing reds. Or is that how it was? :lol:
Thats how it is atm :P
Oh come on, you're often enough in PP1 to know how easy it is to accidently lose SL.
i have never once lost soul light there but then again im smart enough to do a team most times ;)
and btw there is a zoneline right there in pp1 used more then often.
most hunting places or non warzones have a zoneline near if u shoot a friendly
sure u might loose sl once bringing u down alot agreed but it goes up fast to 20 ish or so then shoot someone again after a while and regenerate its not a big problem,
i still say those who loose soul light more then once is not the brightest of the bunch
I have two realisations for this thread!
1.) Fastest growing thread in a long time.
2.) Thread that has pissed most people off in a short amount of time :lol:
HAHAHAHAHAHA! well said Apoc :lol: Well said!
It wouldn't be hard to fix the problem of accidentally hitting a friendly. Just make it so that you only lose SL if you do 50% of the maximum damage done or something.
It wouldn't be hard to fix the problem of accidentally hitting a friendly. Just make it so that you only lose SL if you do 50% of the maximum damage done or something.
Welcome to gankocron!
How do you mean?
Edit: Perhaps you didn't understand what I meant, so I'll rephrase my idea.
If you shoot a friendly once and only do a little bit of damage, but an enemy kills him, you only did a little bit of damage compared to the enemy's, so you shouldn't lose SL. But if you shot the friendly a few times, taking about 1/3 of the friendly's health, and the enemy kills him, you did about 1/2 of the damage the enemy did, so yo should lose SL.
We could also do it the really simple way, you only lose/gain SL/Symp if you shot someone more than once.
Well ive just spent about 20 minutes reading through this whole thread and i choose to reserve my judgement on the new SL system until they tell us how it is going to work.
All they have said is it will be harder to gain SL after the change so heres notice to get all your chars upto 100 SL if you want to. They haven't mentioned anything about the losses being the same as they are now and i can't see how they could be, it wouldn't make sense.
Anyway ill go see if i can get a shit load of vallium for all you guy's should help you :p
i have never once lost soul light there but then again im smart enough to do a team most times ;)
and btw there is a zoneline right there in pp1 used more then often.
most hunting places or non warzones have a zoneline near if u shoot a friendly
sure u might loose sl once bringing u down alot agreed but it goes up fast to 20 ish or so then shoot someone again after a while and regenerate its not a big problem,
i still say those who loose soul light more then once is not the brightest of the bunch
On the zoneline issue, as it is now i couldn't care less if some sissie tried to hide in a leveling spot to stop me from finishing him. I just follow him and kick his ass. Because i can easily get my SL back from killing reds.
With the next change, i couldn't do that anymore. I'd be stuck with my shit SL.
And on the friendly fire issue: No big deal never losing SL in pp1, you're dead on your back most of the time there. ;)
And stop suggesting i'm "not the brightest of the bunch" just because i'm saying it's rather easy to accidently hit an ally. I don't miss often, you should know that by now.
As a sidenote, i also want to keep killing idiots that are friendly/neutral to me. I'll gladly take the SL hits for killing soldierz. But at least leave me a proper way to raise it again. :rolleyes:
/edit
If you shoot a friendly once and only do a little bit of damage, but an enemy kills him, you only did a little bit of damage compared to the enemy's, so you shouldn't lose SL. But if you shot the friendly a few times, taking about 1/3 of the friendly's health, and the enemy kills him, you did about 1/2 of the damage the enemy did, so yo should lose SL.What if i attack someone with a few people, each one only doing little damage. No SL loss for anyone?
Wrong way to solve the whole issue. :(
the SL changes are welcomed by a lot of players, but surely not by all. remember RP doesnt mean evrything to evryone. (just a lot to most) afaik there are 3 problems left un-adressed:
problem: i was dogfighting in PP 1 when a st00pid n00b jumped in my bullet and my SL dropped, after 3 n00bs guards started firing at me...
solution: PP1 should be a warzone, not a city zone. no, wait. the fun should take place in a warzone. so what we need, and what KK needs to supply, is a great place for duelling, with a GR, a Go, an ammo shop, a safezone to zonelame by, all in a place far away from pedestrian noob traffic. we need a true battledome, a new buliding out in the wastes, a meeting point for duelists.
problem: i was grinding exp in the cave when a st00pid n00b jumped in my bullet and my SL dropped...
solution: stop caving when you're tired or drunk. do a few missions now and then. what KK needs to supply is new category of missions, like killing 5 warbots or grims. let's call it "elite".
problem: i was killing n00bs at the GR, when my SL...
solution: you're out of luck. maybe try a game with easier rules to suit your style of playing.
solution: PP1 should be a warzone, not a city zone. no, wait. the fun should take place in a warzone. so what we need, and what KK needs to supply, is a great place for duelling, with a GR, a Go, an ammo shop, a safezone to zonelame by, all in a place far away from pedestrian noob traffic. we need a true battledome, a new buliding out in the wastes, a meeting point for duelists.
Thats is completely NOT what we want, we dont want all fights surrounded in just one place and for the love of god no fucking Zonelines :mad:
I'm happy with PP1 pvp. You aren't going to get around zone lines; people are always going to fight near zone lines, you can't change that on the current engine. Keeping places like pepper-park good for pvp is very important, and even more so with the factions moving back into NC1 places.
I miss the old SL system where you only lost 7-12 SL per kill and went red sooner. Smaller numbers like before would make me happy; would need to do less missions too.
What about a faction that is enemy with every faction? :)
THE_TICK!!!!
21-06-07, 16:15
Then what good is an SL-system if they make it how you suggest here... afaik it's pretty hard to get -100. I got -98 on many, cuz of changing factions long ago.... but other than that actually its pretty easy to get neg sl..i was in p2 killing red players that attacked neocron, unfortunately for me..they kept going into the sewers and the apt's in p2 and getting healed by ppu's..so i followed one down to the sewer. and went from 100 positive SL.. to neg 3..with one shot...now is THAT not cool or what.
Flame Bait
21-06-07, 16:33
problem: i was killing n00bs at the GR, when my SL...
solution: you're out of luck. maybe try a game with easier rules to suit your style of playing.
Better Solution: Stop GR camping
You know full well the risk you take by playing the role of an Anarchist.
Pepper Parl 1 PvP is the worse i have ever seen rele, aye the clipping was VERY bad at MB zoneline but atleast there was only one zoneline and you cud sometimes get your victims to come outside.
But with pp1 there are MANY zonelines that they can run into and whore avoiding death, imo remove all safezones, its the only way it will be fixed.
Tbh there isn't enough players in this game to allow that, thats why players decide to become 'EVUL ALLY GANKERS LAEL' because the low population can sometimes mean less targets.
True, but pops dropped partially because of ally gankers. For a bit of FFA pvp fun there are many dedicated games, without clipping issues, lag or handicaps ("you spent 2 months blasting those walls with aoe, your 'skills' are awesome!"). I'm not blaming them really, SL was broken since forever. So little was being done to fix it you'd think according to game design it was functioning as intended.
We have a kind of catch 22 now, because the only major group of people left is more or less random pvp'ers and positive SL is very handy in PvP. "Fixed" SL bugs will attract some old & new players but it will hurt the only popular thing left. And then every now and then we have random SL issues which can wreck SL in seconds.
Flame Bait
21-06-07, 16:55
But with pp1 there are MANY zonelines that they can run into and whore avoiding death, imo remove all safezones, its the only way it will be fixed.
Sure just push out all but the most hardcore duelists from the game because you guys aren't happy in a game designed for role playing. Forget about the newbies who don't even know what Pepper Park is. I mean if any lowbies even attempt to explore they deserve to get ganked and called cowards.
Maybe you should just ask KK to remove all but Pepper Park from the game and when you die there is only single public GR which is camped. They can then rename the game Camp Pepper and you will have a blast.
I would go on but then this thread would take a turn in the wrong direction.
Sure just push out all but the most hardcore duelists from the game because you guys aren't happy in a game designed for role playing. Forget about the newbies who don't even know what Pepper Park is. I mean if any lowbies even attempt to explore they deserve to get ganked and called cowards.
Maybe you should just ask KK to remove all but Pepper Park from the game and when you die there is only single public GR which is camped. They can then rename the game Camp Pepper and you will have a blast.
I would go on but then this thread would take a turn in the wrong direction.
And if you actually read his whole post you would've seen that he doesn't want to pvp in pp1. He wants pvp to happen somewhere else with no zonelines.
You failed at flaming.
Sure just push out all but the most hardcore duelists from the game because you guys aren't happy in a game designed for role playing. Forget about the newbies who don't even know what Pepper Park is. I mean if any lowbies even attempt to explore they deserve to get ganked and called cowards..
LE chip. ;)
I actually really like the idea of less safe zones.. in areas like pepper park.. (the clubs shouldn't be safe zones)
Flame Bait
21-06-07, 17:33
I will say this again you are playing an RPG its no and FFA PVP game. If you want that type of thing you have ops, battledome and neofrag. There is no reason to remove the safezones which are there to protect tradeskillers. You can't join a clan with an LE so thats not going to work for a constructer who needs access to a clan apartment.
No safezones would simply run the last few tradeskillers left out of the game. Its already nearly impossible at certain hours to even find a poker. Then half the people who need 115 wont even tip you. Maybe if this change does go into effect it will remove some of the trash and give the game a chance to grow a little.
Flame may i ask who your chars are in-game cus you obviously made a new forum account just to flame a couple of people without ruining your in game reputation.
About your earlier post you kinda flamed for for the exact opposite of my post......I hate pvp in pp1 its sour but it is the only place to fight and if zonelines were removed then there wudnt be just one place where there are fights.
I understand what you are saying about tradeskillers needing a safe zone, well they can have one safe zone just not right next to a zone where weapons can be drawn because then we are back to square one just in a different position.
I'm not talking about removing all safe zones, I think having plaza1, tech haven, mb, and others is very important. Having the clubs around pepper-park as safe zones isn't ok.
I'm not talking about removing all safe zones, I think having plaza1, tech haven, mb, and others is very important. Having the clubs around pepper-park as safe zones isn't ok.
Will TH sec 2 actually still be a safe zone after FA returns? i didn't spend much time at all on nc1 so i wouldn't know.
What if i attack someone with a few people, each one only doing little damage. No SL loss for anyone?
Wrong way to solve the whole issue. :(
Not really. Here's another example. Let's say that you accidentally shoot an ally, then 3 enemies shoot and kill him. One of the enemies did more damage than the others, so if you did 50% of the damage he did, then you should lose SL.
Will TH sec 2 actually still be a safe zone after FA returns? i didn't spend much time at all on nc1 so i wouldn't know.
TH2 staying as a safe zone when the F6 patch comes is a good question.
In NC1, there was no safe zones in Techhaven, but we did have state of the art overpowered sentry guns. There was a spawn event once, where the GM spawned about 20 120/120 malfunctioning storm bots...lets just say we didn't have enough hackers that day. :D
If TH2 isn't a safe zone then it will go back to being mostly deserted as it was before. In fact, with most of the factions coming back to NC I would expect Plaza 1 to be the trade zone again.
On the subject of Soulight, I will harp on again about the fact that if KK had made rares and woc weapons unobligatory for high-end pvp (as I had hoped with the rebalance), people would have been less afraid to fight because they can use competitive (but easily replaceable) weapons. Harder SL rules and belt drop zones in general would therefore not stop anyone coming out to play.
Basically anything which encourages pvp in the game should be developed, while anything that discourages pvp will just make more people leave.
Flame Bait
21-06-07, 18:53
I understand what you are saying about tradeskillers needing a safe zone, well they can have one safe zone just not right next to a zone where weapons can be drawn because then we are back to square one just in a different position.
Im not flaming anyone specific or here just to stir shit my goal is to open KK's eyes. Who my characters are really does not matter and this is my only forum posting account.
Now back to the subject at hand..
There was always safe zones in NC1 and people fighting on zone lines. Its nothing new to NC2 and they already tried to change things up a bit obviously and it was a failure. This just did not work as well as KK thought it would. Not only are you unhappy but now the population has almost flat-lined.
What they have done wrong to start was alienate the city by centering/moving things around TH. This only made the game more difficult for new players who are now missing so much of what the game has to offer. They cant drool over rare items (maybe if they are lucky) and it can be very difficult to even get to TH for pokes and such. Not to mention the fiasco with Doy which is probably the biggest failure of all.
Now back to this whole PVP thing
The main problem is some players have created a style of PVP (zone fights) which they enjoy and want to impose on others. It's unfair though because some people want to role play (carebears do exist in NC) or simply are afraid to fight the better skilled players. Then we have others only like to OP Fight as it gives them a different feeling of achievement. Yet the guys who like to OP Fight don't ask that all zones be converted to fit their style. Nor do we have the RPers here asking that everyone be forced to speak in character on trade and such.
There are even people who play this game and have never touched a gun because they don't like the violence. Since this is once again an RPG its understandable that some who play only enjoy the crafting type stuff. I have played many MMOs and there is nothing comparable to the trade skills in NC and the type of futuristic setting it offers period.
So no there is no need to remove the safe zones. If someone refuses to fight and runs away you should see that as defeat. Also once TG is back in the Canyon it will open up a new place for stealth/cave zone whores to have their fun. My suggestion to KK would be to do what needs to be done and bring more players to the game. Nothing else is going to matter when the population never goes above 1% anymore. So either you give KK some time to sort out the mess and "offer" (not demand) ideas or you can wait till they shut the game down.
What most people should be most concerned about right now are ways to get new players to stick around. You can only put so much blame on the developers. Its not them who ganks low levels and scams them for what little they have. If the population grows (maybe it wont) the game will better and everyone can get more of what they want out of it. Otherwise there are some people who stand to lose much more then the rest of us.
ashley watts
21-06-07, 19:18
I will say this again you are playing an RPG its no and FFA PVP game. If you want that type of thing you have ops, battledome and neofrag. There is no reason to remove the safezones which are there to protect tradeskillers. You can't join a clan with an LE so thats not going to work for a constructer who needs access to a clan apartment.
No safezones would simply run the last few tradeskillers left out of the game. Its already nearly impossible at certain hours to even find a poker. Then half the people who need 115 wont even tip you. Maybe if this change does go into effect it will remove some of the trash and give the game a chance to grow a little.
if that would make tradeskillers leave the game, then they shouldnt be playing NC tbh..
Flame Bait
21-06-07, 19:47
if that would make tradeskillers leave the game, then they shouldnt be playing NC tbh..
Ever think maybe its you who should be playing an pure FPS and not an RPG?
If you really want to dictate maybe you should make your own game.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - tying safezone boundaries to zonelines is a BAD THING.
Unfortunately, the engine can't handle separating the two. The next best thing is safezones that aren't crowded by zoneline cattleshoots (Mil Base, I'm looking at you). A trader zone in the wastes, with no zoneline cattleshoot entry/exit, would be ideal, or at least as ideal as the NC engine can handle.
ashley watts
21-06-07, 20:54
Ever think maybe its you who should be playing an pure FPS and not an RPG?
If you really want to dictate maybe you should make your own game.
Umm no, i THINK im playing an RPG here, if people don't like the fact that you might die and need to take risks in this game, then don't play. Anything else you wish to add bait ? because the only thing you've done since you signed up is whined :)
Name 2 locations you are likely to use AOE and hit an ally which will cause a HUGE sl loss
1: Leveling area
2: City sector.
What is the problem? Well for example, my friend barrels into a leveling area, I crash relog into his barrel and die before I sync in and before he knows im their.
How is that fair?
Your in a city fight, but 9 people and only 8 in team, number nine gets hit by two or three allies because he gets in the way like a fool and then dies, they lose SL because they couldnt team.
And that ISNT even going into noobs who SL abuse by creating a rank 0/2 and running him un-le'd in to a fight.
So simple truth of it is if they remove the ability to regain SL, then they HAVE to balance it by removing the ability to LOSE SL, so make city make killing an ally only give -20 or so. neutral -5, then everyone can kill five allies before even going to 0sl.
Now people can gank allies.
Dribble Joy said it best and I agree; THE SOULLIGHT SYSTEM DOES NOT WORK!
Mighty Max
21-06-07, 22:49
I still fail to see the direct connection.
If the SL-lossses will get weakened, there is no reason for KK to "warn" for this. => You don't know anything about the SL-loss rules after the change in the ruleset.
This is a warning to get your things done _now_.
Deal with it by fixing your SL now before the patch.
Why should it be ok that someone can absue SL-Bitches (which are against the ROC) just because you can't coordinate your tem.
You guys use teamspeak for coordinated OP-Fights. For telling jokes and whatever but fail to use it to coordinate a team or a relog in the caves?
On the other hand. If a runner actively abuses the old issue with purposely ruining someone elses SL (this issue is not to the slightest changed by the SL gain change btw) use your mailclient and the abuse@ email address.
Don't excuse one abuse with another abuse.
if that would make tradeskillers leave the game, then they shouldnt be playing NC tbh..
Sounds somewhat pretentiously.
Maybe this is a possible solution here:
Ever think maybe its you who should be playing an pure FPS and not an RPG?
And this is absolutely correct, too:
You can only put so much blame on the developers. Its not them who ganks low levels and scams them for what little they have.
As he said:
There is absolutely NO NEED to remove all savezones. There is not one single agrument for this and it does not apply in any way to the issue the thread is about. It's simple the 1.000.000th attempt to convert NC into an noble form of UT or such thing without any atmosphere at all (and intelligence).
.
specranator
22-06-07, 01:15
last time i checked the game was titled as
"MMORPGFPS" ;)
cant stand the heat get outta the kitchen? :lol:
On the other hand. If a runner actively abuses the old issue with purposely ruining someone elses SL (this issue is not to the slightest changed by the SL gain change btw) use your mailclient and the abuse@ email address.
I do believe that this has been classified as NOT Abuse by KK. There was a huge thread about this a while ago when Toilet Duck used to purposely do it at MB.
yep, problem is noone believes that and now everyone in this forum says that this is an exploit because he just doesn't know better and can't be arsed to get some basic info on what he's talking about.
Flame Bait
22-06-07, 06:02
last time i checked the game was titled as
"MMORPGFPS" ;)
cant stand the heat get outta the kitchen? :lol:
No that means the game offers a variation of playstyle. The game is a Multiplayer RPG with FPS style combat. Putting FPS on the end does not null and void the Role Play end of it.
The same people who are so anti carebear are probably a big part of why the game continues to fail. Once KK manages to make them miserable and quit then we can begin to move forward. Then of course we can see how the ones against safe zones are all friends and have characters that are fully decked. I doubt Ressi Blade or many others who do not play the game for PVP would be happy about having safe zones removed.
/sarcasm on
Im sure once safe zones are removed the game will be flooded with new players and none of which will be carebears..
(yay i can post again :D )
One of the things that i have loved alot, is being on low SL and then go fighting, it makes it more exciting IMO.
And getting SL from my kills is one of the things i have loved too, then it feels like i get something for when i kill ppl (noone of my chars can hack belts, exept for my PPU and im not gonna log him just to hack belts :lol: )
For the record i have never "farmed SL", last time i had bad SL (about -40SL) i just went to pp1, and after about an hour my SL was good again.
Anyways, im not gonna post in this thread again, it makes me mad :lol:
No that means the game offers a variation of playstyle. The game is a Multiplayer RPG with FPS style combat. Putting FPS on the end does not null and void the Role Play end of it.
The same people who are so anti carebear are probably a big part of why the game continues to fail. Once KK manages to make them miserable and quit then we can begin to move forward. Then of course we can see how the ones against safe zones are all friends and have characters that are fully decked. I doubt Ressi Blade or many others who do not play the game for PVP would be happy about having safe zones removed.
/sarcasm on
Im sure once safe zones are removed the game will be flooded with new players and none of which will be carebears..Why do all you carebears think that pvp and rp are two different things?
Keeping the LE in, doing "roleplay", whining about pkers on ooc. That's what most of the rpers do.
And when they're done, they start a team with a TG and a CA member and happily go leveling. Right.
Calm the fuck down. You people always make it look like that as soon as someone takes his LE out, he's gonna get ganked repeatedly no matter where he is.
As a sidenote, the last patch that was in favor of pvp has been ages ago. Since then only the carebears got what they wanted. And their numbers are constantly rising. Which is something i don't get. There's so many games out there with a proper pve system. The NC one is rather crap. :lol:
Mighty Max
22-06-07, 10:10
As a sidenote, the last patch that was in favor of pvp has been ages ago.
Basically every #16x?
Since then only the carebears got what they wanted. And their numbers are constantly rising. Which is something i don't get. There's so many games out there with a proper pve system. The NC one is rather crap. :lol:
Without providing as much wrong facts, i can also tell you that there are so many games where the PvP has more pace, less "carebears" etc.
Please stop this stupidness. It's actually YOU here that only sees black and white.
It's not that the ppl you addressed in the first paragraph say that there is no RP+PvP coexistence but it is YOU that deny that there might be any RP without PvP. And it is YOU reading his words in this manner but actually he included both features in one line. Not excluding one by the other.
Basically every #16x?
Without providing as much wrong facts, i can also tell you that there are so many games where the PvP has more pace, less "carebears" etc.
Please stop this stupidness. It's actually YOU here that only sees black and white.
It's not that the ppl you addressed in the first paragraph say that there is no RP+PvP coexistence but it is YOU that deny that there might be any RP without PvP. And it is YOU reading his words in this manner but actually he included both features in one line. Not excluding one by the other.
You and me will never ever agree on anything. So just stop it right here. I'm not even gonna try to discuss anything with you.
We're both way to keen on our own point of view.
Flame Bait
22-06-07, 10:46
Why do all you carebears think that pvp and rp are two different things?
RP can include some PVP but camping GRs and killing blue tags just for a cheap thrill has nothing to do with RP. If you dont understand that maybe you should get an education rather then wasting you life on these forums.
Im not into RP myself although im not WoC capped which makes me nothing more then a moving target dummy. This we can blame on KK for making the WoC weapons so ridiculously overpowered. Not going to PP for PVP or keeping an LE in does not make new players cowards nor a carebears. I understand there are not enough targets in the game anymore for people to kill. Soon the faction alignment changes will go into effect which will change this and hopefully give old players with no life something to do.
Not all RP players or noobs want to be forced to keep the LE in and some want to join clans. Sadly the game is a mixed bag of tricks at the moment for everyone. Yes there are people who will kill you anywhere and anytime even the lowest of low levels just for kicks. There was one clan NCat a while back which was thrived on doing all they could to be pricks. Hence KK is tired of the same old bullshit with vets driving new players away and therefore is looking to make more changes.
There is no need for me to calm down and yes im totally right about the LE/noob ganking bullshit. Case and point tradeskillers who walk in PP are dead before they even finish zoning in. So please dont pretend im some idiot who knows nothing about what the fucktards in this game do for fun.
If the PVP in NC is is "rather crap" you are free to quit playing anytime. You seem to only want to play this game for PVP and you said yourself other games are more fun in this aspect. So if it makes you so miserable and the game is so carebear these days the logical thing to do would be to quit. You wont be the first nor the last and nobody is not going to try and keep you here against your own free will.
Im not really sure what most vets want out of this game. It seems you and many others simply want a game that simply caters to your own changing play styles. Yet there are so many other multiplayer FPS games on the market that offer what you want. I can suggest Warrock although its loaded with exploiters which NC seems to have much less of these days. They even have a forum you can flex your epeen on and a chat lobby in game. Seems like its everything you want out of NC and there is no clipping for you to cry about when you die.
Its not vets that drive away people its the more stupid patches to come
RP can include some PVP but camping GRs and killing blue tags just for a cheap thrill has nothing to do with RP. If you dont understand that maybe you should get an education rather then wasting you life on these forums.
Im not into RP myself although im not WoC capped which makes me nothing more then a moving target dummy. This we can blame on KK for making the WoC weapons so ridiculously overpowered. Not going to PP for PVP or keeping an LE in does not make new players cowards nor a carebears. I understand there are not enough targets in the game anymore for people to kill. Soon the faction alignment changes will go into effect which will change this and hopefully give old players with no life something to do.
Not all RP players or noobs want to be forced to keep the LE in and some want to join clans. Sadly the game is a mixed bag of tricks at the moment for everyone. Yes there are people who will kill you anywhere and anytime even the lowest of low levels just for kicks. There was one clan NCat a while back which was thrived on doing all they could to be pricks. Hence KK is tired of the same old bullshit with vets driving new players away and therefore is looking to make more changes.
There is no need for me to calm down and yes im totally right about the LE/noob ganking bullshit. Case and point tradeskillers who walk in PP are dead before they even finish zoning in. So please dont pretend im some idiot who knows nothing about what the fucktards in this game do for fun.
If the PVP in NC is is "rather crap" you are free to quit playing anytime. You seem to only want to play this game for PVP and you said yourself other games are more fun in this aspect. So if it makes you so miserable and the game is so carebear these days the logical thing to do would be to quit. You wont be the first nor the last and nobody is not going to try and keep you here against your own free will.
Im not really sure what most vets want out of this game. It seems you and many others simply want a game that simply caters to your own changing play styles. Yet there are so many other multiplayer FPS games on the market that offer what you want. I can suggest Warrock although its loaded with exploiters which NC seems to have much less of these days. They even have a forum you can flex your epeen on and a chat lobby in game. Seems like its everything you want out of NC and there is no clipping for you to cry about when you die.
You really got that name for a reason, hm?
And once again you didn't read what i said. I said pve is shit in NC. Pvp-wise it's the only mmorpg that fits my playstyle. There's just no other game to compete with NCs atmosphere and pvp.
And you don't know me. So stop making shit up. I pvp, right. I roleplay sometimes. Actually i try to most of my time.
I don't gank allies if i can avoid it, nor noobs or tradeskillers because i don't get anything out of it. Of course there's exceptions, enemy clan member will get shot. Not to forget people i can't stand.
But apart from that, believe it or not, i'm a damn nice guy. :lol:
Oh and i agree with woc being ridiculously overpowered and especially for PEs and pistol spies it's a must have to compete in pvp. And i hate that.
Now leave me the fuck alone and annoy someone else. I'll happily keep flexing my epeen on these forums. And there's nothing you can do. :)
I don't get whats so bad about getting ganked once in a while. Keeps the game interesting and people thrilled.
Why do all you carebears think that pvp and rp are two different things?
Keeping the LE in, doing "roleplay", whining about pkers on ooc. That's what most of the rpers do.
The first sentence contains a lot of mistakes.
The expression "carebear" was created by gankers to hide their true intention " Ganking only" and to mask it with virtual RP like "i am a mad one - catch me".
So they try to present themselves als "Roleplayer" if trouble started, few minutes later they laugh about every RP.
RP ist a gamplay style, PvP is a game mechanic. There are no carebears at all. It is a creation of players which want to discriminate other player for their intention to play Neocron as what is made for : a game with a unique atmosphere of cyberpunk.
On Mars we have (and ever had) some excellent roleplayers which were very good pvp-ers, too. This is a clear proof that it is you who want to polarize the player base in an inadmissible way.
"Whining" isn't a brand of roleplayers since we could see that most crying comes from the direction of pvp-only oriented players complaining all about lacks in balancing. The quest for the perfect balancing. And how hopeless it is to reach 100% balance (as it is in UT, for example^^).
It is NOT a fluke that RP-players are able to continue gaming even with server populations below 10, below 5, even below 2 %.
Look at the huge number of fascinating locations in the game. Most of them are abandoned due to the lack of RP. Buit they show for which this game was created. Gankers only interest is whether this is a savezone or not.
With this measure, the inhibition threshold to eliminate other runners to ruin their enjoyment of the game should be raised.
Take note of this. Obviously Reakktor has recognized (late, but they did) that the reduction of NC to a pure FPS isn't very promising. Maybe its a waste of a game.
Nevertheless - i am pleading for coexistance of all sort of gameplay styles.
But it is important for everyone to recognize: A back-to-the-root f6 measure isn't complete without a proper rework of the SL concept. The easy exploitable SL mechanics we had for years now was an ideal hotbed for every form of destructive gameplay. Let's try to find a new one which could be accepted by the whole player base.
.
The first sentence contains a lot of mistakes.
The expression "carebear" was created by gankers to hide their true intention " Ganking only" and to mask it with virtual RP like "i am a mad one - catch me".
So they try to present themselves als "Roleplayer" if trouble started, few minutes later they laugh about every RP.
RP ist a gamplay style, PvP is a game mechanic. There are no carebears at all. It is a creation of players which want to discriminate other player for their intention to play Neocron as what is made for : a game with a unique atmosphere of cyberpunk.
On Mars we have (and ever had) some excellent roleplayers which were very good pvp-ers, too. This is a clear proof that it is you who want to polarize the player base in an inadmissible way.
"Whining" isn't a brand of roleplayers since we could see that most crying comes from the direction of pvp-only oriented players complaining all about lacks in balancing. The quest for the perfect balancing. And how hopeless it is to reach 100% balance (as it is in UT, for example^^).
It is NOT a fluke that RP-players are able to continue gaming even with server populations below 10, below 5, even below 2 %.
Look at the huge number of fascinating locations in the game. Most of them are abandoned due to the lack of RP. Buit they show for which this game was created. Gankers only interest is whether this is a savezone or not.
Take note of this. Obviously Reakktor has recognized (late, but they did) that the reduction of NC to a pure FPS isn't very promising. Maybe its a waste of a game.
Nevertheless - i am pleading for coexistance of all sort of gameplay styles.
But it is important for everyone to recognize: A back-to-the-root f6 measure isn't complete without a proper rework of the SL concept. The easy exploitable SL mechanics we had for years now was an ideal hotbed for every form of destructive gameplay. Let's try to find a new one which could be accepted by the whole player base.
.We had that talk. And you know how much i love to exaggerate. :)
I'll keep it down a bit, it's just a topic that gets me mad every time.
Flame Bait
22-06-07, 13:15
Lets look at a typical day in NC2.
Random Person 1 OOC: Guys come fight me you carebears
Random Person 2 OOC: LAWL you are gay and you get pwnd irl
Random Person 1 OOC: Then come fight me i r teh badass
Random Person 3 OOC: I kicked all your asses yesterday shut it before you all die again
Random Person 2 OOC: hey Random Person 3 your mom is fat and eats to much yogurt lol
Anyone who claims the above is any form of RP is full of crap. The PP fights are simply epeen flexing between a circle jerk of players who like the attention. If you enjoy it then more power to you. Some of us enjoy larger scale PVP and feel it takes much more skill to use coordination. Hence the reason why outposts were created which cater to another style of game play.
Personally im not interested in hacking belts to get an extra stamina booster or ripping off noobs who need repairs. Some players thrive on taking risks and others get sick of losing all their shit and they quit.
its no RP ... and that is y it is posted in the OOC channel
do you know the meaning of ooc?
i dont think so...
OUT OF CHARACTER
We had that talk. And you know how much i love to exaggerate. :)
I'll keep it down a bit, it's just a topic that gets me mad every time.
So do i , cause i know you better now ;)
As you said:
Pvp-wise it's the only mmorpg that fits my playstyle. There's just no other game to compete with NCs atmosphere and pvp.
I could say nearly the same, maybe i would change the words "pvp-wise" against "pve-rp-wise" ;)
The longer we discuss here the more i guess the SL/symp concept is really a key figure how the game is going. There must be a way to include all playstyles in the game. Anyhow there is no way to avoid the "mixing" of intentions. RoC should be obligatory. The rest is tolerance. The term Ganker is as ineptly as it is Carebear.
Flame Bait expressed some observations in a very interesting way. Now we should go topic again.
.
Flame Bait
22-06-07, 13:36
its no RP ... and that is y it is posted in the OOC channel
The whole point to my post went right over your head.
The whole point to my post went right over your head.
no ... your whole f******* point is based on something very stupid.
Flame Bait
22-06-07, 13:46
no ... your whole f******* point is based on something very stupid.
You don't even understand the point so how can you tell how stupid it is?
no ... your whole f******* point is based on something very stupid.
Oh the irony.. :lol:
no ... your whole f******* point is based on something very stupid.
What Flame wanted to show is quite different, i guess.
It is reality that these form of communication is representative on all channels on e.g. Terra, isn't it ? out of character. One of the reasons i prefer to play on Mars, even at lower pop numbers.
But on the other side Terra seems to be the better server to play pvp-oriented. Which leads to the question whether it would be better to have certain servers for the gameply styles (again) ?
Then on a pure pvp server savezones and SL aren't necessary at all. Perhaps Reakktor should activate a pvp server again. Everybody could choose an appropriate environment.
Lets look at a typical day in NC2.
Random Person 1 OOC: Guys come fight me you carebears
Random Person 2 OOC: LAWL you are gay and you get pwnd irl
Random Person 1 OOC: Then come fight me i r teh badass
Random Person 3 OOC: I kicked all your asses yesterday shut it before you all die again
Random Person 2 OOC: hey Random Person 3 your mom is fat and eats to much yogurt lol
RP or not NC wouldn't be NC without the shittalk on OOC, although it isn't as bad as Flame Bait makes it out to be.
Flame Bait
22-06-07, 15:05
Then on a pure pvp server savezones and SL aren't necessary at all. Perhaps Reakktor should activate a pvp server again. Everybody could choose an appropriate environment.
If they really wanted PVP without zone hugging they could go fight at battledome. Except there is no pussy club to hide your PPU inside which just wont work of course.
Flame Bait
22-06-07, 15:18
RP or not NC wouldn't be NC without the shittalk on OOC, although it isn't as bad as Flame Bait makes it out to be.
No your right help is worse and to prove all my points are valid. Here we have a fairly new player who just got taught a valuable lesson. You cannot trust anyone in this game and the vets will do all they can to keep new players miserable. Then they will come on the foums and QQ to KK that the server is dead and there are no fresh targets to kill.
06-22-2007 09:06:48 > HELP> Herb Blank : toastman scamming is part of rp
06-22-2007 09:06:55 > HELP> Mohammed Omar : I'm roleplaying
06-22-2007 09:06:57 > HELP> Mohammed Omar : sorry.
06-22-2007 09:06:58 > HELP> Herb Blank : if u want go and kill rep ress
06-22-2007 09:07:09 > HELP> Jack Drake : I can cst mc5s if anyone wants to give me all their parts
06-22-2007 09:07:11 > HELP> Herb Blank : or shut up and stop crying
06-22-2007 09:07:17 > HELP> Toastman : well then im gona stop playing neocron coz i have nothing to do here, no gun, no money
06-22-2007 09:07:22 > HELP> Dark Conster : shouldn't wish people to death, its bad toastman.
06-22-2007 09:07:30 > HELP> Herb Blank : u can get a gun
06-22-2007 09:07:34 > HELP> Herb Blank : where r u?
06-22-2007 09:07:41 > HELP> Toastman : mb
06-22-2007 09:07:43 > HELP> Herb Blank : and what gun u need?
06-22-2007 09:07:49 > HELP> Dark Conster : people always loose shit, and they make themself go up again
06-22-2007 09:07:53 > HELP> Dpaparelli : toast how much did it cost to build
06-22-2007 09:07:55 > HELP> Dark Conster : u shud do the same
06-22-2007 09:07:58 > HELP> Toastman : something that isnt gona do 2 damage
06-22-2007 09:08:16 > HELP> Rep Ress : toast i ask what gun he took
06-22-2007 09:08:23 > HELP> Herb Blank : cmon wgat weapon was it?
06-22-2007 09:08:27 > HELP> Mohammed Omar : Toast throw some tears on the Cyclops
06-22-2007 09:08:30 > HELP> Mohammed Omar : Cry them a river
06-22-2007 09:08:33 > HELP> Toastman : and even if i do get a
06-22-2007 09:08:51 > HELP> Toastman : he took a 4 slot tangent rocket launcher
06-22-2007 09:09:12 > HELP> Rep Ress : ok hold up
06-22-2007 09:09:12 > HELP> Dark Conster : knowing omar he probably sold it to Yo's for 8k
06-22-2007 09:09:20 > HELP> Mohammed Omar : 4k ;D
06-22-2007 09:09:22 > HELP> Dark Conster : lol
The ending...
06-22-2007 09:20:39 > HELP> Mohammed Omar : Enjoy your neocron experience Toastnoob
Thats pretty harsh, but I'm hopefull that some players reading that in game will have responded by helping that player out. I know for sure that in Neocron 1 people would have helped him out, and clans would also have taken note that this person was a scammer and put him on their KOS list.
Of course...you can't punish this person if he's an ally faction because of the new rules! - so I think maybe this point you are making is a little off topic.
I agree there has to be a balance between genuine, belt dropping risky combat which so many players love, and a fairer way for those who don't like that part of the game to level and participate. KK must find a way to please both sides, if they want to see populations improve. But its not easy. I would suggest small, incremental changes that allow KK to guage the result and see if their goal can be met. Otherwise they risk slicing off a chunk of population each time they make a major change.
My personal preference is to never pvp in belt-drop zones, as I said earlier in the thread, specific rare items are too important for pvp to be risked, and this should be changed imo. Like I also said, if people want to be able to kill friendly factions then it should be incorporated into consenual Clan wars so you can do it without SL loss.
Flame Bait
22-06-07, 16:04
Thats pretty harsh, but I'm hopefull that some players reading that in game will have responded by helping that player out. I know for sure that in Neocron 1 people would have helped him out, and clans would also have taken note that this person was a scammer and put him on their KOS list.
Of course...you can't punish this person if he's an ally faction because of the new rules! - so I think maybe this point you are making is a little off topic.
Sorry this is not NC1 and its a known fact by every vet on the server that Mike is a Scammer. This is the type of bullshit grieving that spawns from the boredom of vets who will never be happy until there is no one else left to abuse.
I just don't understand how people can pretend its fun to stand around for 30 mins waiting for a poker after getting ganked by allied faction players.
No your right help is worse and to prove all my points are valid. Here we have a fairly new player who just got taught a valuable lesson. You cannot trust anyone in this game and the vets will do all they can to keep new players miserable. Then they will come on the foums and QQ to KK that the server is dead and there are no fresh targets to kill.
Ouch I see 2 names in that log who are part of a scamming ring who have hit Terra again... :mad: They are even trying it on some of the established clans and vets as well.
But what has scamming to do with the soulight changes?
Flame Bait
22-06-07, 16:33
Brammers please go back to post #131 on page 9 and read the quotation.
As it would seem KK wants to give the game more appeal to a larger audience including those who prefer little or no PVP. For this to be successful it will take a bit more then just a few adjustments with the SL system. Although the proposed changes are a bit harsh it may bring positive change for the long term. I for one stand behind their decision for making changes even if its not the perfect solution. Doing something to increase the population is better then doing nothing.
This thread rele has got VERY sour now........ and tbh Flame Bait ppl have different oppinions on what RP / PvP is dont think yours is the only right one....
This thread rele has got VERY sour now........ and tbh Flame Bait ppl have different oppinions on what RP / PvP is dont think yours is the only right one....
Agree, the issue is complex. We should go back to topic.
But remember: Any opinion about SL/symp is directly linked to preferred playstyle.
was interesting tbh...... ;)
.
ashley watts
22-06-07, 17:26
No your right help is worse and to prove all my points are valid. Here we have a fairly new player who just got taught a valuable lesson. You cannot trust anyone in this game and the vets will do all they can to keep new players miserable. Then they will come on the foums and QQ to KK that the server is dead and there are no fresh targets to kill.
06-22-2007 09:06:48 > HELP> Herb Blank : toastman scamming is part of rp
06-22-2007 09:06:55 > HELP> Mohammed Omar : I'm roleplaying
06-22-2007 09:06:57 > HELP> Mohammed Omar : sorry.
06-22-2007 09:06:58 > HELP> Herb Blank : if u want go and kill rep ress
06-22-2007 09:07:09 > HELP> Jack Drake : I can cst mc5s if anyone wants to give me all their parts
06-22-2007 09:07:11 > HELP> Herb Blank : or shut up and stop crying
06-22-2007 09:07:17 > HELP> Toastman : well then im gona stop playing neocron coz i have nothing to do here, no gun, no money
06-22-2007 09:07:22 > HELP> Dark Conster : shouldn't wish people to death, its bad toastman.
06-22-2007 09:07:30 > HELP> Herb Blank : u can get a gun
06-22-2007 09:07:34 > HELP> Herb Blank : where r u?
06-22-2007 09:07:41 > HELP> Toastman : mb
06-22-2007 09:07:43 > HELP> Herb Blank : and what gun u need?
06-22-2007 09:07:49 > HELP> Dark Conster : people always loose shit, and they make themself go up again
06-22-2007 09:07:53 > HELP> Dpaparelli : toast how much did it cost to build
06-22-2007 09:07:55 > HELP> Dark Conster : u shud do the same
06-22-2007 09:07:58 > HELP> Toastman : something that isnt gona do 2 damage
06-22-2007 09:08:16 > HELP> Rep Ress : toast i ask what gun he took
06-22-2007 09:08:23 > HELP> Herb Blank : cmon wgat weapon was it?
06-22-2007 09:08:27 > HELP> Mohammed Omar : Toast throw some tears on the Cyclops
06-22-2007 09:08:30 > HELP> Mohammed Omar : Cry them a river
06-22-2007 09:08:33 > HELP> Toastman : and even if i do get a
06-22-2007 09:08:51 > HELP> Toastman : he took a 4 slot tangent rocket launcher
06-22-2007 09:09:12 > HELP> Rep Ress : ok hold up
06-22-2007 09:09:12 > HELP> Dark Conster : knowing omar he probably sold it to Yo's for 8k
06-22-2007 09:09:20 > HELP> Mohammed Omar : 4k ;D
06-22-2007 09:09:22 > HELP> Dark Conster : lol
The ending...
06-22-2007 09:20:39 > HELP> Mohammed Omar : Enjoy your neocron experience Toastnoob
Exactly, this is what goes on everyday and it may happen to me somtime, but as i said in my other post, if scamming makes you quit a game or death with consequences , i think Counter strike or such is more suitable to that particular player, IF toastman doesn't like his Neocron experiance because he got scammed then he should go find somthing more "Carebear" ?
Flame Bait
22-06-07, 17:33
This thread rele has got VERY sour now........ and tbh Flame Bait ppl have different oppinions on what RP / PvP is dont think yours is the only right one....
NC has very few rules against grieving and people like to throw around the word RP when it suits them. NCat even tried that excuse when they attempted to ruin a few GM hosted events.
We both know scamming and ganking new players just for shits and giggles has nothing to do with roleplay.
We both know scamming and ganking new players just for shits and giggles has nothing to do with roleplay.
It may not but thats how some people wish to play the game, its not in any way greifing or sploiting its simply making a living in the eyes of a scammer. I have scammed many people in my time but i tend to just do it to nabbl cus well i hate him, but some people like to make a mockery out of people that r too trusting.
Thats what you cant understand mate
Exactly, this is what goes on everyday and it may happen to me somtime, but as i said in my other post, if scamming makes you quit a game or death with consequences , i think Counter strike or such is more suitable to that particular player, IF toastman doesn't like his Neocron experiance because he got scammed then he should go find somthing more "Carebear" ?
False interpretation.
Seems Toastman is not a carbear than more a "normal player" ?
If this is true and no RP is involved (as it is here clearly not) then we easily find certain expressions for the other ones. The RoC do not content the word "Griefplay", but they are valid. Doing this repeately should end in ascertainment of violation of Rules of Conduct and therefore should have serious consequences.
There are no carebears at all.
.
Flame Bait
22-06-07, 17:43
IF toastman doesn't like his Neocron experiance because he got scammed then he should go find somthing more "Carebear" ?
And again we see the mentality of the current player base. To think anyone actually wonders why the population is so low. :lol:
Brammers please go back to post #131 on page 9 and read the quotation.
Read both quotations and,I don't see the connection between my question which was "But what has scamming to do with the soulight changes?" Take the time to answer the question if you care.
However I agree with Silent000, this thread is getting sour and getting way off topic.
ashley watts
22-06-07, 17:49
False interpretation.
Seems Toastman is not a carbear than more a "normal player" ?
If this is true and no RP is involved (as it is here clearly not) then we easily find certain expressions for the other ones. The RoC do not content the word "Griefplay", but they are valid. Doing this repeately should end in ascertainment of violation of Rules of Conduct and therefore should have serious consequences.
There are no carebears at all.
.
Exactly, If toastman didnt quit, hes enjoying his neocron experiance :), but if Omar said hes rolplaying, whats to say he's not lieing :p ? omar ftw :p
And again we see the mentality of the current player base. To think anyone actually wonders why the population is so low. :lol:
Im not trying to decrease the population, im simply stating that if the inparticular person "Toastman" in this case does not like to be scammed and wants to quit because of this, then he should do so, but in games like this it's danger around every corner right ?
BUT back on topic.
The only safe sectors should be one main sector in each of the cities, HQ's and Techhaven, MB would be good if it was not a safe sector, would give nice raid teams a little fun there, OR if it's going to be harder get SL back now i think that if these sectors were non- safe zones, then an instant 100 sl would be lost, thus making the runner think twice before attacking random runners for crap reasons :p but pretty much everywhere else were like 5 SL loss sectors.
Flame Bait
22-06-07, 17:51
It may not but thats how some people wish to play the game, its not in any way greifing or sploiting its simply making a living in the eyes of a scammer. I have scammed many people in my time but i tend to just do it to nabbl cus well i hate him, but some people like to make a mockery out of people that r too trusting.
Thats what you cant understand mate
You do realize this game is very trust oriented. Without being able to trust anyone you may aswell find another game. So the point you just made is that new players who simply want to have fun should find another game.
Exactly, If toastman didnt quit, hes enjoying his neocron experiance :), but of Omar said hes rolplaying, whats to say he's not lieing :p ?
Sadly a lot of people had used roleplay as an excuse for griefing.
Flame Bait
22-06-07, 17:54
Read both quotations and,I don't see the connection between my question which was "But what has scamming to do with the soulight changes?" Take the time to answer the question if you care.
It has everything to do with making the game better for new players.
Do you think it costs them nothing to give away free trials in hopes of getting more players?
You do realize this game is very trust oriented. Without being able to trust anyone you may aswell find another game. So the point you just made is that new players who simply want to have fun should find another game.
How did you come to that conclusion? this is a pvp/RP game wit han FPS style i think that trusting players that this game brings in are not very trusting and you shud always watch your back round every corner
It has everything to do with making the game better for new players.
Do you think it costs them nothing to give away free trials in hopes of getting more players?
Soullight is related to ganking...not scamming. If you still can't take the time to explain properly, please dont bother replying.
Flame Bait
22-06-07, 19:00
How did you come to that conclusion? this is a pvp/RP game wit han FPS style i think that trusting players that this game brings in are not very trusting and you shud always watch your back round every corner
I don't have to watch my back for scammers in other MMORPGs so why is it that Neocron should be this way?
Simply because a few idiots trying to run new players out want it to be this way or because the term FPS means something different in your mind?
If this was any other well known MMO you would get a temp or perma ban for scamming or even attempting to scam another player for items. Maybe that's the problem with NC since most normal people would just rather not have to worry about such petty bullshit. I don't know anyone who would come back to this game for the chance to get robbed blind.
I'm all for whatever will bring NC back to its old glory and this is KK's game. So its up to them to make the right choices that will make or break the future of Neocron. The SL penalty has proven not to be effective against those it was originally intended to protect. Had it been done different from the start no one would be here complaining. By the same token had some players not done their best to run new players out these change might never have been necessary.
If this was any other well known MMO you would get a temp or perma ban for scamming or even attempting to scam another player for items. Maybe that's the problem with NC since most normal people would just rather not have to worry about such petty bullshit. I don't know anyone who would come back to this game for the chance to get robbed blind. If you are stupid enough to hand your valuable items to a guy you don't know, you deserve to get scammed. That's the whole point. There don't need to be rules, this isn't wow. Get used to it.
I'm all for whatever will bring NC back to its old glory and this is KK's game. So its up to them to make the right choices that will make or break the future of Neocron. The SL penalty has proven not to be effective against those it was originally intended to protect. Had it been done different from the start no one would be here complaining. By the same token had some players not done their best to run new players out these change might never have been necessary.YOU are all for turning NC into another wow clone.
And now stop whine about people deliberatly driving newbies away just because ONE guy said it on help. And if he gave up that easy, NC was the wrong game for him anyway.
My opinion.
Flame Bait
22-06-07, 19:21
If you are stupid enough to hand your valuable items to a guy you don't know, you deserve to get scammed. That's the whole point. There don't need to be rules, this isn't wow. Get used to it.
YOU are all for turning NC into another wow clone.
And now stop whine about people deliberatly driving newbies away just because ONE guy said it on help. And if he gave up that easy, NC was the wrong game for him anyway.
My opinion.
Funny you bring WoW into this which is the most successful game of all time. I guess you just proved catering to carebears really is much more profitable then catering to fucktards.
Funny you bring WoW into this which is the most successful game of all time. I guess you just proved catering to carebears really is much more profitable then catering to fucktards.
yet 'Fucktards' are much more fun, now get out of my game :D ^^
Flame Bait
22-06-07, 19:46
yet 'Fucktards' are much more fun, now get out of my game :D ^^
Sorry you must be mistaken me for some other noob who might feel insulted.
Please get back on topic or create a new thread.
N
this is KK's game. So its up to them to make the right choices that will make or break the future of Neocron.
See.. THIS is the big problem.. most of us love NC too much, we dont want KK to make changes (we all know that KK have a habbit of.. fucking things up - just look at theire "balancing").
And i still think they should post some more details about these SL changes..
It would make alot of ppl alot less nervous..
*prays that they remove SL hits from caves/all the damn sewers that ppl whore to when they are close to death*
Anyways, i just hope that KK will surprise me :lol:
specranator
22-06-07, 21:33
I don't have to watch my back for scammers in other MMORPGs so why is it that Neocron should be this way?
because neocrons unique? best i can do anyways :lol:
and just because WoW sold so many copies and has so many subscribers does not make it the most successful game IMO, it simply means theres that many noobs in the world who would play such a pos. :lol:
I don't have to watch my back for scammers in other MMORPGs so why is it that Neocron should be this way?
Total rubbish.
Eve - there are Scammers in that game as well. A while back there was 700 billion ISK pyramid selling scheme. And the best bit about the scam was excuted within the rules of conduct.
OK thats the last from me on Scamming. I'm off to gank Flame Bait ingame for some Soullight.
Total rubbish.
Eve - there are Scammers in that game as well. A while back there was 700 billion ISK pyramid selling scheme. And the best bit about the scam was excuted within the rules of conduct.
OK thats the last from me on Scamming. I'm off to gank Flame Bait ingame for some Soullight.
Hehe Brammers^^ do not hurt him too much ;)
Yes, Flame - he's right this time: scammers are everywhere. Eve, WoW, GW - erverywhere players are scamming other players. Sometimes they get caught and are bounced off, sometimes not.
We have drifted away from topic, but the discussion was interesting.
Ganking and savezones - this is the focus.
Savezones and a (hard) SL system ? we'll see. I for myself cannot see the advantage if all savezones are taken away. No need, as you said. Could agree with Ashley Watts, one savezone for each main sector of a city, the HQs, TH (?) and MB (?). Last have to be thought about. And then let's see what the rest of the "package" KK announced is dealing with.
And -of course - one should give the rougher world of Neocron a try - and one should be patient ;)
.
trigger hurt
23-06-07, 00:21
Btw from reading your other thread you are a returning vet, so you probably dont know that if you have 100SL and you kill 1 ally even if he has red SL you will go from +100 to 0 then another will take you to about -42sl it was changed just before evol 2.1 i think i cant quite remember
It's always been like this. I had 100 SL/Symp on all of my chars at one time due to missioning to cap out psi, etc. Killed one ally on accident and took a huge hit.
Do a search on the forums and you'll find some huge discussions about the very same topic.
It's always been like this. I had 100 SL/Symp on all of my chars at one time due to missioning to cap out psi, etc. Killed one ally on accident and took a huge hit.
Do a search on the forums and you'll find some huge discussions about the very same topic.
No at the start of Neocron 2 the SL was absolutly fine, and it was about when they made plaza 1 a safezone and the p1/p2 fights were in place and there was SO much ally PKing so they changed it to the rules we have today.
Whats was it? 0 SL > -16 to -32 or something good like that
trigger hurt
23-06-07, 04:11
No at the start of Neocron 2 the SL was absolutly fine, and it was about when they made plaza 1 a safezone and the p1/p2 fights were in place and there was SO much ally PKing so they changed it to the rules we have today.
Whats was it? 0 SL > -16 to -32 or something good like that
That was near the end of Neocron 1. You've always lost a massive amount of SL by killing an ally, even with +100 SL, you would go a bit negative if you killed an ally.
Like I said, a search of these forums with the word "soullight" will bring up some interesting topics that are far older than NC2/NC2.1/NC2.2
such as:
http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=72167&highlight=Soul+Light
http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=72024&highlight=Soul+Light
and
http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=78093&highlight=Soul+Light
The massive SL loss isn't anything new. The running of inane missions to repaire SL, also, is not new.
No at the start of Neocron 2 the SL was absolutly fine, and it was about when they made plaza 1 a safezone and the p1/p2 fights were in place and there was SO much ally PKing so they changed it to the rules we have today.
Whats was it? 0 SL > -16 to -32 or something good like that
Oh man, that brings back some fun memories. damn i miss that.. was so much more fun - had to be carefull and dont trust anyone, because everyone could just turn on you and start shooting. THAT was fun :D
I don't get whats so bad about getting ganked once in a while. Keeps the game interesting and people thrilled.
Because it's really enjoyable to have to pay some of the little money I actually have to gr to TH after dying, since half of my implants fell out, which means they got damaged, then paying more for pokes, which half the time I can't get, then gr again. Yes, how very interesting, I'm sure that the little "thrill" that the ganker receives is worth the crap that the gankee has to go through.
I remember in the very beginning of NC2 when P1 wasnt a safe zone - we would fight another allied clan on the steps of the CA HQ. After killing about 3 allies your sl dropped to negative and you had to run and do a couple aggie missions to get it positive again (+5 sl per mission). Then go back to the fight. Those were fun times.
I remember in the very beginning of NC2 when P1 wasnt a safe zone - we would fight another allied clan on the steps of the CA HQ. After killing about 3 allies your sl dropped to negative and you had to run and do a couple aggie missions to get it positive again (+5 sl per mission). Then go back to the fight. Those were fun times.
I think those were the best times, i used to love being a noob on my tank running thru the city with my hands shaking because i always know that there was some1 to gank me in p1 :D
Bozz-Von Mel
23-06-07, 19:08
Warning to all : Game experience may change during online play. :D
Of course, you mean:
Warning : Gaming experience will degrade during online play.
Im not trying to decrease the population, im simply stating that if the inparticular person "Toastman" in this case does not like to be scammed and wants to quit because of this, then he should do so, but in games like this it's danger around every corner rightthere are two types of people;
those who when scammed bitch and cry on forums/ingame chat and plead for their stuff back, then quit and are never heard of again
and the one's that take it like a man and get revenge in the not too distant future...
all they're doing is seperating the men from the boys, toastman would have probably stayed LE his entire time and never PVP'd, so it's not really any loss :-)
And now stop whine about people deliberatly driving newbies away just because ONE guy said it on help. And if he gave up that easy, NC was the wrong game for him anyway.
My opinion.exactly, if you can't take losing some of your stuff you won't be pvping cause you might drop a belt (oh noes, must have a ppu/stealthwhore in team waiting to grab it too!)
Because it's really enjoyable to have to pay some of the little money I actually have to gr to TH after dying, since half of my implants fell out, which means they got damaged, then paying more for pokes, which half the time I can't get, then gr again. Yes, how very interesting, I'm sure that the little "thrill" that the ganker receives is worth the crap that the gankee has to go through.the little "thrill" is made a hundered times better when we're reminded of how much it annoys you little ppl =]
and all that you listed can probably be sorted out within 5/10 mins unless you waste a load of time, or you play at off-peak times.. (pretty much every spy pokes now.. it's really not hard getting poked)
also a little more on-topic, please can KK impliment something to stop people zoning while underfire, like a hidden DoT effect which doesn't take effect until the player has zoned, make it last 10 seconds or something (so clip whoring before zoning doesn't ruin it) and it pretty much insta-kill's them if they zone? :P
toastman would have probably stayed LE his entire time and never PVP'd, so it's not really any loss :-)
I saw him yesterday, and without LE :D
also a little more on-topic, please can KK impliment something to stop people zoning while underfire, like a hidden DoT effect which doesn't take effect until the player has zoned, make it last 10 seconds or something (so clip whoring before zoning doesn't ruin it) and it pretty much insta-kill's them if they zone? :P
Hah yea thats why i have so much fun when using Dev, LOVE when i follow someone into a safezone and then see him die from my Dev stacks :angel:
Because it's really enjoyable to have to pay some of the little money I actually have to gr to TH after dying, since half of my implants fell out, which means they got damaged, then paying more for pokes, which half the time I can't get, then gr again. Yes, how very interesting, I'm sure that the little "thrill" that the ganker receives is worth the crap that the gankee has to go through.
I'm not talking about getting killed. I'm talking about the feeling that you MIGHT get shot in the back.
That's what kept me going as a noob. Exactly that feeling of danger around every corner. These days people just don't seem to want that. They'd rather be safe everywhere. :(
Mighty Max
24-06-07, 17:29
I'm not talking about getting killed. I'm talking about the feeling that you MIGHT get shot in the back.
Then you should be fine and happy with the change:
Now there will be even the thrill that you MIGHT get -SL you can't instantly fix :lol:
:edit:
@Kierz:
You still got to learn that a game is not a life. Usually we play games (at least i do) to have fun. This goal can be reached for some by beating other players in direct competition but for others this just means to have a good time with other players.
The key and thus the thing that makes a "man" (read as: something that a grown up should know) is to seperate the dislikes against ideas/styles and dislikes against persons. Something that someone who hints us with "if xyz leaves it wouldn't be a loss" is missing.
all they're doing is seperating the men from the boys, toastman would have probably stayed LE his entire time and never PVP'd, so it's not really any loss :-)
Surely any player we lose from the game is a loss? It doesn't matter whether they are a long standing hardcore PVP veteran or a new runner still with his LE in who's only running missions in level 1 sewers.
Surely any player we lose from the game is a loss? It doesn't matter whether they are a long standing hardcore PVP veteran or a new runner still with his LE in who's only running missions in level 1 sewers.
100% agree - furthermore, I have full understanding for anyone being pissed off to the max after lossing what they might have spend hours or days on getting. To experienced players no item loss is really worth the trouble of crying out... to ppl who have just started playing it may very well cripple the experience.
Some people here really have a serious attitude problem and if any of you ever makes a rant on low server pops, you deserve a 50" steelpole up yer bottom.
Flame Bait
24-06-07, 22:12
Then you should be fine and happy with the change:
Now there will be even the thrill that you MIGHT get -SL you can't instantly fix :lol:
I was never your biggest fan in NC1 but that has changed lately. :)
Simply take a look at most of these people in the pics thread and you can begin to understand who you are dealing with. More then half of them have not even reached puberty and really only want what their so called friends want. Its so much cooler to be a sheep rather then to make your own choices and follow your own beliefs.
The -SL change will be rewarding to some and hated by others. You can please some of the people some of the time but you can never please everyone all of the time. It would be easy to reverse and could be one of the best changes that ever happened to the game. If some trash falls out along the way because of the changes its not going to be missed by anyone.
I was never your biggest fan in NC1 but that has changed lately. :)
Simply take a look at most of these people in the pics thread and you can begin to understand who you are dealing with. More then half of them have not even reached puberty and really only want what their so called friends want. Its so much cooler to be a sheep rather then to make your own choices and follow your own beliefs. :lol:
You sir really are one lame flamer.
OMG LOOK AT ALL TOHSE KIDS PLAYING NC! THEY MUST BE IDIOTS!
Pathetic insult.
Flame Bait
25-06-07, 02:33
You sir really are one lame flamer.
Its not an insult it just goes to show why there is so much immaturity in the game. I doubt a game loaded with strip clubs, booze and drugs was really intended to be played by prepubescent teenagers.
You calling me lame does not hurt my feelings even the least bit. ;)
I'm not talking about getting killed. I'm talking about the feeling that you MIGHT get shot in the back.
That's what kept me going as a noob. Exactly that feeling of danger around every corner. These days people just don't seem to want that. They'd rather be safe everywhere. :(Well it was pretty cool the first few times. Like when I saw an apu running by, I thought it would be cool to attack him so I pulled out my knife and slashed him. Then he killed me with one hit from his Holy Lightning. That was awesome.
But then when people started killing me left and right to the point where I was left with no more money and lost most of my stuff, that's stopped liking it and put my LE back in.
Its not an insult it just goes to show why there is so much immaturity in the game. I doubt a game loaded with strip clubs, booze and drugs was really intended to be played by prepubescent teenagers.
You calling me lame does not hurt my feelings even the least bit. ;)
And you're mature? Right. All your flames show that pretty good. :rolleyes:
You're worse than most of those "prepubescent teenagers" when it comes to whines and flames.
/edit
@Flib
I don't get how all you people manage to get ganked to a point where you lost everything. Do you keep going back right where you just got shot? Again and again?
I leveled my first noobs on saturn back when PKing was insane. And i managed to do that without getting ganked too often or loosing to much stuff. And that was when you would drop a random item from your QB right onto the ground. No belt that had to be hacked first.
And you're mature? Right. All your flames show that pretty good.
You're worse than most of those "prepubescent teenagers" when it comes to whines and flames.Expressing views or opinions isn't whining nor flaming.
Also, when he says "prepubescent teenagers", he's not insulting them, he's describing them. The fact that they're immature just goes with their age.
If you think about it, this game doesn't really seem like it was made for that kind of audience, does it?
@Flib
I don't get how all you people manage to get ganked to a point where you lost everything. Do you keep going back right where you just got shot? Again and again?
I leveled my first noobs on saturn back when PKing was insane. And i managed to do that without getting ganked too often or loosing to much stuff. And that was when you would drop a random item from your QB right onto the ground. No belt that had to be hacked first.
It's a lot harder to make money, therefor anything, now. Not to mention the fact that there is a much lower population. Now, I know you're going to say "but less people means less people to gank you," well, that's what you'd think. Actually, less people means more bored people that can't find anyone to fight and go out trolling for noobs to kill. It's happened to me a few times; it was late, I couldn't find anyone to kick my ass in pp1, so I went to MB to try to find some noobs to kill, killed one, and felt pretty bad about it actually. I actually remember the guy's name. =/
At the moment, I occupy myself by leveling and farming for a woc disc on my le'd droner whenever my clan isn't op fighting. I must say, op fighting is a lot more fun than the stupid shit in pp1 and ganking noobs.[/rant]
Expressing views or opinions isn't whining nor flaming.
Also, when he says "prepubescent teenagers", he's not insulting them, he's describing them. The fact that they're immature just goes with their age.
If you think about it, this game doesn't really seem like it was made for that kind of audience, does it?Well, the way he is expressing his views and opinions is a pretty shitty one. And age got fuck all to do with this, i've met quite a few mature kids, not to mention the insane amount of adults that still behave like 12 year old kids when they don't get what they want.
*waves to Flamebait*
It's a lot harder to make money, therefor anything, now. Not to mention the fact that there is a much lower population. Now, I know you're going to say "but less people means less people to gank you," well, that's what you'd think. Actually, less people means more bored people that can't find anyone to fight and go out trolling for noobs to kill. It's happened to me a few times; it was late, I couldn't find anyone to kick my ass in pp1, so I went to MB to try to find some noobs to kill, killed one, and felt pretty bad about it actually. I actually remember the guy's name. =/
At the moment, I occupy myself by leveling and farming for a woc disc on my le'd droner whenever my clan isn't op fighting. I must say, op fighting is a lot more fun than the stupid shit in pp1 and ganking noobs.[/rant]MB is not the only place in the world. THere's spots to level where you will rarely ever see anyone else. What's so hard about going somewhere else.
People go visit the one most known leveling spot for noobs. Then they wonder why they get shot. :rolleyes:
And on that noob killing thing, i also always feel bad when i shoot noobs. Usually only happens by accident, like when i don't get their rank fast enough. :)
Expressing views or opinions isn't whining nor flaming.
Also, when he says "prepubescent teenagers", he's not insulting them, he's describing them.
This is right, i guess.
Immature or not, observations i could make over the time were that in fact younger players often have a very humoristic playstyle which has more social maturity than a lot of older players. Or said way other around: destructive, antisocial behaviour you could see more often shown by players which are something older, let's say between 25-35 yo.
But how significant is it ? Look at this for example:
.....and the one's that take it like a man and get revenge in the not too distant future...
....all they're doing is seperating the men from the boys......
Ugly. Keep growing, Kierz :p The day will come you will be adult, boy ^^
The grade of maturity isn't really directly linked to players age. Nor it is the question whether he is looking for something to vent. It's a question of the personality.
And it was question of time that the fundamental conflict between roleplayers and shooter-only players will appear again within context of Soullight concepts. SL system affects intensively the way of playing NC.
This has to be solved. At least better than in the past, and a proper SL system may be heplful for that.
.
THere's spots to level where you will rarely ever see anyone else. What's so hard about going somewhere else.
MMO(FPS, RPG, G...whathaveyou) != Singleplayer Games.
They rely and base on player interaction ...and player interaction is not exclusive to PvP or ganking. That's what makes a MMOFPS different to pure shooters such as BF2 or CS. The balance of PvP and socialising/exploring/achieving is different in each game. Compare Planetside and NC ...and going by the RPG elements provided in Neocron, it should be pretty obvious that this game has more to it than just PvP - it might not for you and it must not for anyone - play NC the way you like it -- but for god's sake, let other players make that choice for themselves too. Activly pushing socialisers away from the game does not help make the servers lively and vibrant... and that very well has an effect on players who see their only fun in PvP. Welcoming the loss of a player and financial supporter of Neocron because they dont match your playing-style will sooner or later leave you alone with a small group of hardcore asshats (that aitn no insult btw... just a lil definition :p) that slowly loose the fun of killing the same faces over and over.
The recession of NC was sparked by major design flaws introduced by KK, yes - no doubt about it, but the ones that continued beating NC while it was on its knees are to be found in the community (although many have since abandoned the game... there's other, larger communities to piss off and cripple).
Helping NC to get back on its feet requires comittment from both, KK and the community and only goes so far without a little tolerance and cooperation.
Right now, both sides are lacking it.
MMO(FPS, RPG, G...whathaveyou) != Singleplayer Games.
They rely and base on player interaction ...and player interaction is not exclusive to PvP or ganking. That's what makes a MMOFPS different to pure shooters such as BF2 or CS. The balance of PvP and socialising/exploring/achieving is different in each game. Compare Planetside and NC ...and going by the RPG elements provided in Neocron, it should be pretty obvious that this game has more to it than just PvP - it might not for you and it must not for anyone - play NC the way you like it -- but for god's sake, let other players make that choice for themselves too. Activly pushing socialisers away from the game does not help make the servers lively and vibrant... and that very well has an effect on players who see their only fun in PvP. Welcoming the loss of a player and financial supporter of Neocron because they dont match your playing-style will sooner or later leave you alone with a small group of hardcore asshats (that aitn no insult btw... just a lil definition :p) that slowly loose the fun of killing the same faces over and over.
The recession of NC was sparked by major design flaws introduced by KK, yes - no doubt about it, but the ones that continued beating NC while it was on its knees are to be found in the community (although many have since abandoned the game... there's other, larger communities to piss off and cripple).
Helping NC to get back on its feet requires comittment from both, KK and the community and only goes so far without a little tolerance and cooperation.
Right now, both sides are lacking it.
1. I wasn't implying people should level solo. I was just saying there's places where you won't meet any pkers.
2. I roleplay. And i pvp. And i level the occasional noob. I just can't see the problems so many LEd people have.
3. I'm not gonna post about this issue again. Enough. :lol:
/edit
Sometimes i wonder if any of the people who flame me about my playstyle ever actually played with (or against) me. :rolleyes:
Flame Bait
25-06-07, 13:24
Sometimes i wonder if any of the people who flame me about my playstyle ever actually played with (or against) me. :rolleyes:
So anyone who has a difference of opinion is flaming you?
So anyone who has a difference of opinion is flaming you?
Well sorry if we expected smart and stupid remarks from some1 called 'Flame Bait' :rolleyes:
So anyone who has a difference of opinion is flaming you?
I couldnt care less about peoples opinion. Everyone got his own opinion. So what. I got mine, he got his, yours just suck.
All YOU do is flame people. I hardly doubt you actually have an opinion of your own, you just ramble about whatever gets people mad. Not to mention how incredibly stupid most of your reasons to back up your opinions are.
And that my friend is pretty damn lame. Now leave me the fuck alone. :)
/edit
To clear up what i ment there:
Just because i like to pvp does not mean i'm an idiot or a kid or whatever people try to make out of me. But you clearly (once again) didn't actually read what i said. :lol:
Flame Bait
25-06-07, 17:06
All YOU do is flame people. I hardly doubt you actually have an opinion of your own, you just ramble about whatever gets people mad. Not to mention how incredibly stupid most of your reasons to back up your opinions are.
Do you even know what flaming is son?
Obviously you have no clue and just want to use my name as a scapegoat for your ignorance. I may not be the brightest bulb in the pack but im far from the weakest link. If you are such a nice guy you would want to ensure the protection of newbies who are becoming an endangered species. As others have said when all the new players are gone there will be little to no targets left for you or anyone else.
Have a nice life in your empty world and when they shut the game you along with the sheep can /wrists...
Do you even know what flaming is son?
Obviously you have no clue and just want to use my name as a scapegoat for your ignorance. I may not be the brightest bulb in the pack but im far from the weakest link. If you are such a nice guy you would want to ensure the protection of newbies who are becoming an endangered species. As others have said when all the new players are gone there will be little to no targets left for you or anyone else.
Have a nice life in your empty world and when they shut the game you along with the sheep can /wrists...
Ok daddy.
This seems to be a huge discussion... is it that hard to realize that people lose SL for reasons OTHER than intentionally killing someone?
here are a few ways you could get fucked over:
walking around with 3 rares... someone starts to shoot you... of course you dont want to die and drop one so you kill them.
BAM bad soullight for a week, no more play time there.
Out leveling in a dungeon... someone leaves team and jumps in your aoe or in front of your shots... then is killed by mobs.
once again... bad soullight... until you AFK it off because there are absolutely NO good places to do missions and they're a waste of life seeing as you lose 40ish SL for a kill and get 1 per lameass boring mission that are more easily done within cities (where you get shot, go figure).
Hunting zone. Enemy runner from a rival clan comes, of course you're going to fight (the hunting zone rules are dumb as hell, people would never trust a sworn enemy to fight by their side even if against stupid mobs)... you win said fight and there you are.
On the NCPD list again.. great.
Oh, well lets go get some SL then, run a few missions in some lightly gaurded areas... Too bad the NCPD list gives away your position.
Now your allies within the cities are comming after that Red SL belt... guess its time to defend and well... theres some worse soullight.
So by saving some poor schlubs 5 minutes of getting repoked, you're wasting weeks of someone else's time. not a good plan from any perspective.
The quality of gameplay for neocron (which was ALL it had going for it) is constantly dwindling, its not hard to say that these sort of changes are the last ones that should be of concern for keeping people around.
Mighty Max
25-06-07, 20:00
This seems to be a huge discussion... is it that hard to realize that people lose SL for reasons OTHER than intentionally killing someone?
Safunte, the thing is we don't know what changes will be done to the SL gain.
When two sides of something need two seperate fixes (and this is the case here) you can't say that the one side can't be fixed because the other one isn't right now.
That only will keep the problem existing.
Therefor you need to seperate the SL gain and SL loss problems and find a fix for them both without a look at the other. Once the problems are solved the gain and loss can be put into an "balanced" state. While one or both are bugged and abused a view "but the other side..." is not going to solve anything.
Safunte, the thing is we don't know what changes will be done to the SL gain.
When two sides of something need two seperate fixes (and this is the case here) you can't say that the one side can't be fixed because the other one isn't right now.
That only will keep the problem existing.
Therefor you need to seperate the SL gain and SL loss problems and find a fix for them both without a look at the other. Once the problems are solved the gain and loss can be put into an "balanced" state. While one or both are bugged and abused a view "but the other side..." is not going to solve anything.
A view of "fix one and then the other" is not going to work either... that'll just have people pissed off in the meantime.
And if we're being told whats going to change with loss, and not told whats happening with gain, dont expect anthing to change with gain... its the way kk works, half fix things and say you'll finish later... then bring up a new issue to stray away from the others.
Mighty Max
25-06-07, 21:10
A view of "fix one and then the other" is not going to work either... that'll just have people pissed off in the meantime.
And if we're being told whats going to change with loss, and not told whats happening with gain, dont expect anthing to change with gain... its the way kk works, half fix things and say you'll finish later... then bring up a new issue to stray away from the others.
There is no word about doing the other side later. I wrote about doing it seperately. This can be done in the very same patch. It just have to be done seperately because the cause of the problems are completely seperated.
And if you take a look at the announcement, there is the word about more then one change. However making SL gain more difficult it needs a warning. It doesn't need a warning to make the SL hit more difficult.
When both things happen in the next patch, you would be pissed when you are allready at -100SL, Wouldn't you? So fix it now! Thats what a warning is for: getting prepared.
OTHER than intentionally killing someone?
here are a few ways you could get fucked over:
(1) walking around with 3 rares... someone starts to shoot you... of course you dont want to die and drop one so you kill them.
BAM bad soullight for a week, no more play time there.
(2) Out leveling in a dungeon... someone leaves team and jumps in your aoe or in front of your shots... then is killed by mobs.
(3) Hunting zone. Enemy runner from a rival clan comes, of course you're going to fight
of course, of course ......... ...... really ?
Every single of your examples is killing a runner of a friendly allied coalition. No. 1+3 are not other - they ARE intentional kills.
No. 2 is an accident, but maybe you could call it "careless".
You're not getting fucked, you'll be punished for this. Similar to real life.
This are no valid examples to deny the wishable changings in SL system, which is the very basic fundament of ppl whos only game is to gank someone regardless whether he is friendly or anything else.
A cyberpunk reality does not necessary means anarchy.
Without a (wanted) revision of the SL system the aspirated back-to-the-roots is worthless for game atmosphere.
you know what dr reed.
you're right
it is time for the game to die..
let kk change something that doesn't need changing again.
trigger hurt
25-06-07, 23:29
A cyberpunk reality does not necessary means anarchy.
Neocron lost the Cyberpunk a long time ago when the Law Enforcer was adopted as a means to protect yourself from PvP. Along the way, the people who didn't want to lose anything in PvP were the ones with the loudest voicest, influencing the direction of the game.
So, no. Cyberpunk and Anarchy are not the same. But Neocron is not Cyberpunk. It's post-apocalyptic sci-fi.
Maybe the other part of the change is that soullight will only be used to reflect whether a person is trustworthy or not and sympathy will determine if factions attack you.
That would be cool wouln't it? It would separate the gankers from the carebears.
Surely any player we lose from the game is a loss? It doesn't matter whether they are a long standing hardcore PVP veteran or a new runner still with his LE in who's only running missions in level 1 sewers.100% agree - furthermore, I have full understanding for anyone being pissed off to the max after lossing what they might have spend hours or days on getting. To experienced players no item loss is really worth the trouble of crying out... to ppl who have just started playing it may very well cripple the experience.
Some people here really have a serious attitude problem and if any of you ever makes a rant on low server pops, you deserve a 50" steelpole up yer bottom.100% disagree, taking the point to the extreme, if we added 1000 noobs to the game who just stayed LE the entire time it would lag the hell out of the server and pretty much kill off op fighting and pvp, most likely making the main playerbase of this game quit.. which will leave you with just the PvE players who will realise how easy/dull neocron is in PvE terms after a few months and quit (at least 90% of them do)
Ugly. Keep growing, Kierz :p The day will come you will be adult, boy ^^that's the best way to show your maturity off? the irony..
OTHER than intentionally killing someone?
here are a few ways you could get fucked over:
(2) Out leveling in a dungeon... someone leaves team and jumps in your aoe or in front of your shots... then is killed by mobs.No. 2 is an accident, but maybe you could call it "careless". okay so if i'm lvling (teamed) with an apu in crp cave or somewhere, he's barreling his ass off as he should be, then i suddenly decide to take all my armour off, unteam and run into the barrels he's already cast.. and that's him being careless?
There's absolutely no point in arguing over a completely broken SL system.
You people rather need to come up with ideas for a better system. The actual system is wank and completely useless. Worst of all, it split the community as it led to two opposing sides. One being the pvp orientated, one being the LEd people.
It got so worse over the years that it's gonna be a pain in the ass to find a system that satisfies both groups.
At least i don't really have any groundbreaking ideas that would be ok for both groups. I tend to prefer rules that are more hardcore and therefor pretty much only pvp orientated. Where's DJ and his awesome ideas when you need him? :)
100% disagree, taking the point to the extreme, if we added 1000 noobs to the game who just stayed LE the entire time it would lag the hell out of the server and pretty much kill off op fighting and pvp, most likely making the main playerbase of this game quit.. which will leave you with just the PvE players who will realise how easy/dull neocron is in PvE terms after a few months and quit (at least 90% of them do)?
Funny to read your constructions :lol:
Do you have another "extreme analysis" aside the reality for us ? Don't post them, please ;)
that's the best way to show your maturity off? the irony..?
Don't take it personally, it is sufficient that you understand what i'm thinking about your outing.
okay so if i'm lvling (teamed) with an apu in crp cave or somewhere, he's barreling his ass off as he should be, then i suddenly decide to take all my armour off, unteam and run into the barrels he's already cast.. and that's him being careless?
Maybe he's careless, but you are an exploiter ;)
If it's you i know from the visits of Terra guests on Mars last summer, the latter wouldn't be a surprise anyway......
.
Flame Bait
26-06-07, 11:46
okay so if i'm lvling (teamed) with an apu in crp cave or somewhere, he's barreling his ass off as he should be, then i suddenly decide to take all my armour off, unteam and run into the barrels he's already cast.. and that's him being careless?
This is where the MMO part comes into play. Like you can spread the word to your clan mates. They tell some of their friends the guy's an ass and word travels. Soon the badass who thought it was cute to fuck your SL finds no one wants anything to do with him. Even sworn enemies can work towards a common goal which will them both in the grand sceme of things.
Neocron lost its core community long ago and cliques (notice the trend anyone?) were all that remained after the good old NC days were gone. Most of the think tanks who could add some good ideas to this thread are to tired to even waste their brainpower. They know anything that does not benefit the gankerrorists will be frowned upon by the vocal minority.
If it's you i know from the visits of Terra guests on Mars last summer, the latter wouldn't be a surprise anyway.......w00t, now i understand why you're doing your whole flame/bitch/whine thing at me =] aww GRUDGES FTW! <3 man those TERRArist vs mars days were so much fun, thanks for the good times man =]
Don't take it personally, it is sufficient that you understand what i'm thinking about your outing.if i'm honest it's hard to understand what you're talking about (if anything at all), quit abusing my language, kthx =]
okay so if i'm lvling (teamed) with an apu in crp cave or somewhere, he's barreling his ass off as he should be, then i suddenly decide to take all my armour off, unteam and run into the barrels he's already cast.. and that's him being careless?
Maybe he's careless, but you are an exploiter ;)you sir, are an idiot... just so you can understand.. for the purpose of the "example" i explained the situation as if i were one of the players involved, explaining what i could do if i wished to (or anyone else who knows the same).. this isn't something that's happened ingame
you gonna come terra sometime? or you having fun csting crap for the few people left on mars.. hm, oo i think i might remember ganking you the few times you dared to zone from plaza1 to plaza2, muahaha, class, i hope you remember that too (then it would definately be you) :D
edit/ pablo come vent you sexy hoe =]] (unless ur at college or w/e)
Guys he said IF he did that..
Flame Bait
26-06-07, 12:58
I love how most UKers act like they are the most badass mother fuckers in the world. :lol:
I love how most UKers act like they are the most badass mother fuckers in the world. :lol:
By most, you mean the insanly violent OAP gangs on the sides of streets mugging teens and stealing from tescos? :P
This thread has run its course. Please continue discussion of the new soullight system with the rest of the new patch in the Patch 166 Notes Thread. (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?p=2087602#post2087602)
Thread Closed.
Triv
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.