View Full Version : [Idea] More Towers
Just been thinking about ways to try and bring a bit more fun to The Wastelands and to allow you to counter the zergs often seen at OP fights. Sniping is often difficult to accomplish in most sectors, especially when trying to snipe into an Outpost, due to the height of OP walls and places to snipe from.
What do you think about adding lots of very tall sniping towers in most sectors, especially near the Outpost walls? It would be like having useful taller versions of the shorter towers dotted around the North West part of The Wastelands. They would need to be rather tall, taller than the existing towers seen in places like J02 and J03.
They may also require a fairly small surface area to stand on, like a simple pillar with a ladder on one side, so you can be fairly sniped in return without objects to block the shots being fired at you. But I suppose a larger surface area you can retreat to the center of would help in splitting up or preoccupying the particular OP team by forcing them to come get you. Would make things a bit more interesting that's for sure.
Would also be sexy to see Tanks going up there and launching rockets/balls of fusion. :D
Apocalypsox
23-05-07, 01:52
love the idea.
You sexy, sexy man. 'Nuff said. :D
If it comes with a general increase in viewing distance and rifle range, i'm up for it.
Because there's still not much sense in sniping when the maximum distance gap can be closed in about 10 seconds of running. :rolleyes:
William Antrim
23-05-07, 12:33
If it comes with a general increase in viewing distance and rifle range, i'm up for it.
Because there's still not much sense in sniping when the maximum distance gap can be closed in about 10 seconds of running. :rolleyes:
You need a new title - grumpy vet.
However yeah I do like the ideas, it brings a new tactic to op fights hopefully. Stick the antibuffing ppus up in the towers yay! Also it gives people something else to clip round when they want to cheat death i guess.
Seriously though, joking aside, i think that anything that gives more classes something to do will be good.
Personally I'd like to see a prone button implemented so that we can actually LIE down when sniping but again that is just wishful thinking.
Sniper towers would be great but you'd be somewhat vulnerable up there on your own. You'd have to be almost constantly checking 360° to make sure nobody was approaching. By the time they showed up on your local list it'd be too late. Counter Strike has a nice way around it, but I can't see stealth doing you any favours as you descend. Still, an extra dimension to game play is always welcome.
You need a new title - grumpy vet.
However yeah I do like the ideas, it brings a new tactic to op fights hopefully. Stick the antibuffing ppus up in the towers yay! Also it gives people something else to clip round when they want to cheat death i guess.
Seriously though, joking aside, i think that anything that gives more classes something to do will be good.
Personally I'd like to see a prone button implemented so that we can actually LIE down when sniping but again that is just wishful thinking.
Love the prone idea, that would be awesome!
And i'm considering changing my title now. :lol:
It's just that since i'm back and can finally play again everything is fucking worse than ever. Balance, exploits, economy, netcode. I'm just pissed and dreaming of the good old days on uranus. :)
How about Vehicles, where you have a 1-Person-Slot ... where the char can use its own weapons?
How about Vehicles, where you have a 1-Person-Slot ... where the char can use its own weapons?
That is an excellent idea. There could just be versions of the existing vehicles where you had no gun but a seat for a person to use their own weapon.
I'd love to see that!
How about Vehicles, where you have a 1-Person-Slot ... where the char can use its own weapons?
At the moment everyone would just use that slot rather than the actual vehicle guns, because they would aim better and do more damage...
switchnine
23-05-07, 20:05
like a simple pillar with a ladder on one side, so you can be fairly sniped in return without objects to block the shots being fired at you.
No. this would look really out of place. BUT if propper watch towers were added to key points leading upto, and around, the outpost it could do the same job. They would look as though they are intended to be used for defence (and indeed could/would be) but if an enemy sniper gets in he'll have a clean line of sight into the outpost or at atleast a clearer view of the gates and surrounding area. This would bring snipers to the op wars in no time. It is a very nice idea.
(devs: or just plot down some of those mushroom towers in the right places :D )
Why would you want snipers in OP wars? They are not OP fighting chars (in 95% of places)..
Sniping in an OP war is extremely dull, they're nearly completely solo/small group PKing chars.
switchnine
23-05-07, 21:20
Why would you want snipers in OP wars? They are not OP fighting chars (in 95% of places)..
Sniping in an OP war is extremely dull, they're nearly completely solo/small group PKing chars.
to make it more interesting than running around in very small circles shooting at someone whos doin the same till one of you dies. oh and while ppu's follows keeping both sides alive and dragging out the whole thing.
as its only the sniper and drone combat in NC that you can;t fraps it, overlay the benny hill music, and pass it off as a 1950's comedy.
...well ok it's not that bad, but it is dull as it stands. it NEEDS strategtic positions like towers, and all the classes to have effective roles. and snipers are one who are useless at op wars at the moment, but have potential to be very effective and tactical characters.
Have you fought an OP war against snipers? THAT is the single most boring thing in the world. When 2.2 came out FF went through a SH-whoring stage where all they took to OP wars were snipers. Once they got a few shots off and we saw where they were, we shot back. They stealth and ran for another 30+ seconds. This is all it will be, stealth whoring as soon as you get shot. It's not fun, it's not interesting and it certainly doesn't beat OP wars at the moment (although they do suck, thanks soldierZ. Assholes).
Anyway, OP wars don't need strategic positions, not all classes need to have effective roles. We have PPUs to keep people alive, tanks for human shields, APUs (who probably should be debuffing), spies and private eyes are just frag meat.
Giving towers (note: I don't disagree with this idea, I'm neither here or there on it) to OP wars will probably not increase sniping, it will probably give tanks another place to AoE the UG or the attackers from while being pretty safe.. I can hear the whines now.
Sniping should not be in OP wars, the best times I ever had sniping was against a small OP team (6 or so) of Killer Clowns solo (<3) or soldierZ (with others) around Cycrow on stealth chars (Grey Man, Lazy Bee, Zeph, See No Evil and Danke) picking out targets, killing them and stealthing off, getting the next target before the PPUs can rez (taking down everyone and their PPUs too, sorry had to add some penis enlargement here :p ). This is where sniping belongs, in the wastelands. Not stuck in a small base trying to get an impossible lock on someone who has 10 other people running around him, getting off a decent shot maybe every 15 seconds.
You don't need a tower to snipe someone from, infact it's probably the worst place if you want to stay unseen for as long as possible.
We just need some more interesting environments is all, more hills to climb, more real canyons, some rivers etc.
No. this would look really out of place. BUT if propper watch towers were added to key points leading upto, and around, the outpost it could do the same job. They would look as though they are intended to be used for defence (and indeed could/would be) but if an enemy sniper gets in he'll have a clean line of sight into the outpost or at atleast a clearer view of the gates and surrounding area. This would bring snipers to the op wars in no time. It is a very nice idea.
(devs: or just plot down some of those mushroom towers in the right places :D )The concrete towers are too big to sit right beside an Outpost, but it would be somewhat interesting to see a couple in other sectors here and there. :) And the reason for suggesting pillars is because those other wooden looking towers are also too big, and both of those would be be used primarily for people to clip whore around. This is why I decided to suggest a thin tall pillar, so there's less of an ability for one to clipwhore around them and cheat death. There needs to be a thought about that type of practicality. Sure, a pillar might look a bit out of place, but it just depends on how it's designed.
The pillar could have various mini platforms at frequent intervals so you can snipe from different heights to shoot into different areas depending on how the Outpost is laid out. A mini radar placed on the top would make it look a bit more intentional and fit in with the Outpost better, along with giving the whole thing an OP wall texture. These pillars don't neccessarily need to equate to something you would see in The Graves or the North Easternly parts of The Wastelands.
You don't need a tower to snipe someone from, infact it's probably the worst place if you want to stay unseen for as long as possible.Most sectors simply don't give you much ability to snipe, reasons already being mentioned in this thread. 80% of the time the OP wall really gets in the way and you only have a small area to shoot into, which means killing people in this manner is impossible, unless they crash.
The most sniping you usually do these days is when people happen to run outside the OP, before realising they're being sniped and quickly run back in to their PPU or UG, typically clipwhoring over hills or around objects if they get into trouble. 'Sniper' doesn't just mean stealth whore, but it often ends up this way because of all the zerging/whoring people are doing, which in turn is often the case for people trying to snipe, apart from it being fun of course. They're either alone and outnumbered, or they're plain and simple being zerged and can't respond any other way without resorting to drone spamming. Some people (me included) prefer to be hunted down. But why bother trying to retaliate at close quarters, especially in 2.2, if you have an enemy PPU buttplugg and their three friends with overpowered weapons coming to shoot you? Even though you're already outnumbered, the PPU will still damage boost you and buff/heal them. It's suicide.
I just believe Sniping should be a viable option of OP fighting, and it currently isn't. With towers/pillars they could indeed be used tactically, but again, they could also be abused just like everything is at some point. Pillars would make countering this potential abuse a possibility as there's no room to hide. They would have to stealth and switch to another tower, all the while at risk of dying before stealthing, or falling off the pillar and possibly dying in the process. If two snipers coordinate their attacks the Spy would no doubtedly die before being able to stealth. It's not like these clans have a shortage of such characters. Because of having dedicated Rifle users in both OP team, it might even the fighting inside the OP out a bit more.
You happen to visit Pepper Park 1 lately? It's an exact replica of a typical OP fight. Zone whoring into a safe zone (the OP equivalent being the UG) when you nearly die even though you have a PPU. Everyone using the most overpowered weapons they can on their targets. One big blur of people running around in circles just like UG fighting. I just think it's pathetic, and I could probably find better PvP in The Sims. I've only had one true fight this week and it was with a Spy called Heat in J01 who randomly decided to start shooting me while I was speaking to Krazor. The fight was quickly over and he died with honour, while leaving me with -6 CM symp. :( heh
We just need some more interesting environments is all, more hills to climb, more real canyons, some rivers etc.Hence the reason for this thread. Such a thing won't happen anytime soon. They're still taking their time with this balancing, and they've taken up their silent treatment again sadly. It's probably easier for them to add a lot of simple sniping points to help make things more interesting.
Tomorrow I'll probably mess about with a screenshot to try and get across an example.
RogerRamjet
24-05-07, 01:29
Theres a few outposts where sniping is viable for an attacker. Emmerson and Grant I can think of off the top of my head. Most fights nowadays though tend to revolve simply around the UG and hackterm, very rarely outside the OP, unless its in its closing stages, which is a shame. Some of the forts (especially Jeriko) look as if they were originally designed with "fortifications" for a defender to fire from when being attacked from outside the walls, but it seems the battles never panned out this way.
There's a fair handful of OPs where sniping is semi-viable, but those sniping points are nearly always deemed useless because of what's already been mentioned, OP walls simply get in the way of your attempt at targeting your enemy.
Foster, Cycrow, Grant, are all good examples of that. At Foster there's many spots to snipe from, but again, the OP wall gets in the way for the most part, and leave only a couple of small areas to aim in, meaning you'll rarely kill someone from sniping. At Cycrow, as with Foster, the OP walls mostly get in the way, leaving just two small areas to shoot in. One from the cliff to the NW, and the other on the ground directly opposite the UG where vehicles are able to drive through. Grant Mine, same as Cycrow pretty much.
Sniping is almost impossible when trying to hit targets inside an Outpost, like I say, unless they crash. There just needs to be some platforms available to allow you to snipe into the OP successfully from particular directions, and it only takes a split second from standing inside the Outpost to decide upon a fair location that a tower/pillar should be placed.
Taking into account the limited target area you would still have even at great height, you won't have some extreme advantage over your enemy. There's still going to be a lot of places to hide behind. As I said, I was suggesting they be small to reduce peoples ability to clipwhore around the base. This small width could mean only one sniper could fit on one of the platforms, so sniper zerging from that spot isn't possible.
[removed - PvE talk can remain in its own thread :p]
Something kind of interesting here and fairly irrelevant, I think OP walls are actually objects. When you're in scope and you right click an OP wall you get the message "you can not reach that!". At least at Cycrow anyway.
The problem with sniping and opfights is not so much the design of the outposts themselves but much more the shitty undergrounds.
Because those basically force people to fight inside in one small place. Well, sometimes people actually make it to the hackterm room but that's it.
Before UGs you had lots to snipe. Mostly because one group was outside of the op. Trying to get into it. And man that was so much more fun. KK need to get rid of UGs completely.
It would solve a lot more problems than just bringing snipers back into
opfights.
William Antrim
24-05-07, 15:58
The problem with sniping and opfights is not so much the design of the outposts themselves but much more the shitty undergrounds.
Because those basically force people to fight inside in one small place. Well, sometimes people actually make it to the hackterm room but that's it.
Before UGs you had lots to snipe. Mostly because one group was outside of the op. Trying to get into it. And man that was so much more fun. KK need to get rid of UGs completely.
It would solve a lot more problems than just bringing snipers back into
opfights.
Amen to that.
Heavyporker
29-05-07, 16:20
Ugh, don't get me started on how badly the Fortress Outposts were designed. Towers should be oligatory for these outposts.
Oh man, if I worked for KK, I'd redo the Outposts. All of them. Well, I'd just tweak Soliko a little, it's already awesome the way it is.
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