View Full Version : The clipping
Right, i don't know what you changed this time KK, but the netcode is complete shit since 2.2 is out. And it's getting worse.
It's nearly impossible to fight on hills or around close objects. And there's quite a few people exploiting this where ever they can.
It was pretty good some time ago but now it's just plain impossible. Please do something about it.
I'm loosing all the fun in fighting because half the time people disappear or take no damage at all. Especially if those cunts do it on purpose.*waves to Tangent* :mad:
i agree get a new server everybody will be behind it, i would gladly loose some items or even my char to fix all the problems with this server, so many times iv been fighting any people have only escape because clipping meaning i crnt hit them (this is very bad in pp1 going up the ramp bhind shop and when people run for the club, they just vanish into walls)
ashley watts
22-05-07, 17:57
Yup, took me a whole 10 seconds to see someone who ran up a hill from clipping into it, after he reappered i had 5 dev stacks on me -.-
I laughed so hard last night with R2K vs soldierZ at Tezla, as soon as a soldierz tank went to low health, he instantly ran either around the UG, around the gogu or around the pillars leading to the hackroom area over and over again until his hp as full. It's like the alternative to getting skills.
Watching places people died in, I noticed most of the soldierZ corpses were next to walls or something they can run around :lol:
I've noticed this too - the netcode does seem to be performing much, much worse than I've ever known it.
I laughed so hard last night with R2K vs soldierZ at Tezla, as soon as a soldierz tank went to low health, he instantly ran either around the UG, around the gogu or around the pillars leading to the hackroom area over and over again until his hp as full. It's like the alternative to getting skills.
Watching places people died in, I noticed most of the soldierZ corpses were next to walls or something they can run around :lol:
Yes, this is really pissing me off. They do it constantly. Even in PP1, they clip into walls and the ramp on purpose.
I wonder if there is any way to stop them exploiting that but i got a shit notebook and really can't be arsed to have FRAPS running all the time i pvp just to have some evidence that KK will probably never look at anyway and if they did they would just DM the soldierz and say "Please stop that, would you be so kind sir?" and then stop caring. :rolleyes:
Please stop calling only soldierz clippers, cus we've learned/seen it from doy clans! And we were the first the complain about it.
And stop complaining about exploits, cus it's KK's fault!
est']Please stop calling only soldierz clippers, cus we've learned/seen it from doy clans! And we were the first the complain about it.
And stop complaining about exploits, cus it's KK's fault!
As long as all those asshats do is exploit the clipping issues where ever they can, i'm not really gonna stop about them. Hell, they do nothing else.
Every clan I've fought at Op wars in Nc 2.2 has 'exploited' the clipping issue, as you put it.
But the problem is so bad, that at ops with any kind of close buildings or hills then just by moving around you are likely to clip!
It has been a problem since Neocron 2.0 by the way, just marginally worse each major evolution. Its entirely possible KK have done it intentionally to appease the load on their servers, or to accomodate more server/client communications.
Every clan I've fought at Op wars in Nc 2.2 has 'exploited' the clipping issue, as you put it. What else would you call it then? All i ever see your guys do is clip around the goguardian or UG entrance or through pillars and everything else near the hackterm with the only purpose of avoiding to get
hit.
But enough, i don't want this thread to get closed. Learn to play fair and i'll stop talking about soldierz. :)
Eternal Pink
23-05-07, 20:15
est']Please stop calling only soldierz clippers, cus we've learned/seen it from doy clans! And we were the first the complain about it.
And stop complaining about exploits, cus it's KK's fault!
Dude just becuz others do it don't make it okay for you to do it as well.
Clipping is like everything else, zone whoring, ppu plugs, ug whoring etc if your outnumbered by a huge amount people will turn a blind eye to it since they can see you are obviously the underdog in the fight.
In Soldierz case tho they do it all the time whether the numbers are on there side or not, which isn't cool.
Mighty Max
23-05-07, 21:07
A clipping here and there is like influenza now and then
The abuse of the clipping is the real plague
And stop complaining about exploits, cus it's KK's fault!
A bug/weakness is indeed the fault of NC (thus KK). The abuse not.
Anyone remember that 'Tea Bag' (I think) guy from SoldierZ pre2.1, he'd try to ally pk in plaza, you'd redline him and he'd spend the next 10 mins clipping around every obstacle in stealth. Was funny just sitting there watching him run around a pillar with a stealth cloud and heal bubbles popping off his head while you made absolutely no effort to harm him. Then he'd try to fight you again and you could rinse and repeat until you got bored.
Anyone remember that 'Tea Bag' (I think) guy from SoldierZ pre2.1, he'd try to ally pk in plaza, you'd redline him and he'd spend the next 10 mins clipping around every obstacle in stealth. Was funny just sitting there watching him run around a pillar with a stealth cloud and heal bubbles popping off his head while you made absolutely no effort to harm him. Then he'd try to fight you again and you could rinse and repeat until you got bored.
Edited
Seraphin[69]
24-05-07, 07:54
Cliping is what makes me laught the most in Neocron...
Old engine, weapons with a higher and higher firerate, server position appearing to update once in 500 msec if not more when you run throw a building.
Some got the style with aiming style, some got the god of speed with them ^^
']Cliping is what makes me laught the most in Neocron...
Old engine, weapons with a higher and higher firerate, server position appearing to update once in 500 msec if not more when you run throw a building.
Some got the style with aiming style, some got the god of speed with them ^^Yes and if you do that clipping right, people nearly never see you where you actually are and thus can't hit you.
Shit thing the most viable setups now seem to be the insane runspeed tanks. Running faster than my PE with their devourer out, i mean wtf. This isn't supposed to work. :(
im really suprised KK havnt done anything about clipping, they could at least post somthing on this forum telling us what there plans are to fix it, (btw thats a little hint there). clipping is 1 of the most major issues right now, some guns might be a bit unbalanced but generally weapons are ok atm, clipping however is just ruining pvp, in a single night of pvp i usually loose about 10 or more kills cos the person was clipping, main problem is often they dont even intend to clip they are just running for the club but because of this netcode they vanish through the wall, that said however there are plenty of people who luv running round corners and up ramps to heal
pottburter
24-05-07, 10:57
The question is : Can they do something about it ?
Position bugs (e.g. clipping, flying runners) are ingame yet for a very long time. Imo, if they could have done anything to improve the netcode, they would've done it month/years ago.
Slowing-down the max runspeed might improve the clipping, but then on the other hand players will (rightfully :confused: ) claim that the game's beeing too slow at all.
Increasing the position refresh rate might also help. But this most likely will also increase the traffic a lot, which in turn might worsen the lags.
The question is : Can they do something about it ?
Position bugs (e.g. clipping, flying runners) are ingame yet for a very long time. Imo, if they could have done anything to improve the netcode, they would've done it month/years ago.
Slowing-down the max runspeed might improve the clipping, but then on the other hand players will (rightfully :confused: ) claim that the game's beeing too slow at all.
Increasing the position refresh rate might also help. But this most likely will also increase the traffic a lot, which in turn might worsen the lags.
But it already was a lot better. Without lag. Now people clip through everything, disappear all of a sudden just to reappear somewhere else, they sink into hills instead of running over them, it's not funny anymore.
Especially when you're figthing people who exploit those issues. :(
And even if it would increase lag or whatever, i don't care. It's not acceptable for a game with FPS pvp. Not one bit.
MrWeedster
24-05-07, 12:28
Well.
Say thanks to the people who exploited to death forcing KK to build in some more check routines. THAT killed the netcode, but it was neccesary to prevent ploiting.
greetz
i think we would all like to here from sombody in the know, it seems like they can fix clipping because i dont remember it being this bad at all in nc1, far as i can remember there wasnt any (though that was a long time ago so i maybe wrong) at any rate the clipping certainly was bearable now its turned into somthing that crnt be ignored. If KK dont do somthing clipping is just going to add up with all the other problems and make people leave, if they fixed clipping i think it would really help boost the NC populations morale because it would help pvp ALOT and prove KK do realise NC is still running, somtimes i think KK forgets they are the creators of NC
Well.
Say thanks to the people who exploited to death forcing KK to build in some more check routines. THAT killed the netcode, but it was neccesary to prevent ploiting.
I think you've hit the nail on the head. Thinking back there was indeed changes made to check player positions.
The annoyance for me is that with 1000's of players in Neocron 1 it didn't clip like this, but with a few 100 in Neocron 2.2 it does. :mad:
The clipping problem isn't totally netcode related.
Say you got told to move from point A to point B with a building in the way. You would walk from point A, around the building, to point B.
For whatever reason, the Neocron client does not take into account the obstacles between point A and point B. It just does a straight line movement from A to B, it does not do any collision detection, and it doesn't take into account the terrain.
The "quick and dirty" way to fix this problem is to increase the position updates, but that will give KK a nice big bandwidth bill.
The proper fix would be to make the neocron client move the runners correctly around the world. 3D collision detection isn't that difficult, it's bound to be easier than altering the netcode.
Mighty Max
24-05-07, 17:28
And there is yet another problem.
Not only does the client need to calculate the way taken by a char properly, it has to do some preemption (which it allready does a bit)
Meaning: If you are staying right to your mate, sitting just beneath each other and looking on the other screen. Now one of you starts to move. If the interpolation is only done due to the position updates, the other computer would only start to move after the second position update, as only then the end of the started movement(part) would be known. This will produce the feeling and the look of lagging behind
Therefor on every position update the direction and speed of movement have to be transfered to make a "guess" where the char is moving to after the end of the just received point is reached.
Here needs to be also a proper correction of the extrapolated positions to keep the char on groud level (yes our famous run into the sky problem) and to avoid buildings, cliffs etc. (Just to stop the movement there)
Since this is not caused by the netcode (yet it is affected by it) a higher refresh rate of the position is not the solution. Actual it could make things worse, because the position correction by wrongly guessed movement would happen more often. A char that would randomly change directions would start to warp/slide around due to the correction.
Have you noticed vehicle bugs? like being warped into the middle of the wrong zone while your glider keeps flying in the right direction? Or having your rhino turn invisible and unsuable for drivers? (in other words it wont move) but can still be hit by other mobs and players and the gunner still see's it and can gun.
Or zoning into a blue screen and having to relog.
Only since 2.2
Serious_Sam
24-05-07, 23:44
NEWSFLASH!!!!!
KK are not working (progressively) on NC anymore. They have a new project which is now their priority.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but NC was never meant to be a serious project, the people running it just use it to pay rent. No ambitions, no attempt to take it anywhere (new vegetation does not count).
Give it up, just play the game until Fallen Earth and Huxley come out. Then move.
I dont understand why you whine about Soldier though. Selendor is right, in that some DoY clands did it first, but this is also no excuse you use it so much either Sel...
as for the clipping itself, get AoE weapons, there is even a minirocket pistol, that does good job.
Pitty for NC however. Doesnt deserve this kind of shit...
Scaramanga
27-05-07, 01:06
Give it up, just play the game until Fallen Earth and Huxley come out. Then move.
Tabula Rasa looks pretty nice too.
Tabula Rasa looks pretty nice too.
Richard Garriott, the J. S. Bach of MMOs is working on it, so expect something special.
Bozz-Von Mel
27-05-07, 04:34
Complain about clipping cause of netcode: Cool, understandable..valid points made.
Complain about players clipping during PvP: Dont understand...all I can guess is that you would like your opponent to stand still. Complain about the issue but its rather childish to name clans/factions or say "others" do it when you know good and well "EVERYONE" is guilty of it, intentionally or not.
-=BaReLy=-
27-05-07, 10:12
I laughed so hard last night with R2K vs soldierZ at Tezla, as soon as a soldierz tank went to low health, he instantly ran either around the UG, around the gogu or around the pillars leading to the hackroom area over and over again until his hp as full. It's like the alternative to getting skills.
Watching places people died in, I noticed most of the soldierZ corpses were next to walls or something they can run around :lol:
the fight was recorded it will be posted on forums soon enough :angel:
Tabula Rasa looks pretty nice too.
It IS pretty nice. The Gameplay is very similar to NC.
It IS pretty nice. The Gameplay is very similar to NC.
wooohoooo pve only!
wooohoooo pve only!
You should read the forums, before posting bullsh**.
This game is still in a very early beta-stage and the pvp-system isnt implemented yet. But they will add some clan vs. clan - pvp, where you can fight for clanbuffs like in Anarchy Online. One of the Devs said further, that some kind of opfight-system with larger pvp-areas will be implemented with retail.
After fighting at a couple OP's yesterday I have to say the clipping is quite horrible. After we hack a layer a lone PPU zones up to see whats going on then sinks into the ground only to float out of the hill on the other side of the op. I don't think the guy was even trying to do it, its just the way the game is now. Makes it difficult and annoying.
Tabula Rasa looks pretty nice too
quote from our forum
Tabula Rasa is going to have "a tiny amount of PVP" - direct quote from that Garriot ******. The main focus is PVE and missions.
not a game i wanna play
Serious_Sam
30-05-07, 21:52
^^ emphasis on PvE? I just don't see the purpose.
Right, Tabula Rasa got nothing to do with the topic here.
I'm seeing more and more people heavily abusing the clipping issues each day. It's pretty lame but there is absolutely nothing you can do.
There's people who manage to clip 90% of the time fighting meaning you rarely ever do damage to them. This isn't even funny anymore and actually the absolute top priority problem. At least on my list. I don't know about KK.
Fix this please. I beg you. This game is so much about pvp, it just can't be that we got such a shitty netcode. It seriously ruins it for me.
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