View Full Version : [barf] How can you call this fun?
Seems MB sector 1 has been traded in for a microscopically better zone whoring box, the Club Veronique zone lines (see screenshot). God damn safe zones. There needs to be a rethinking about these places and encourage people to fight away from their anti-death areas.
When will you allow us to kill neg SL (specifically red SL) allies/neutrals in all sectors (bar perhaps hunting zones if you still want everyone to be carebear). The situation is currently fucked up to not bother thinking of a better way of syaing it. You can't kill these people without losing all your own SL/symp, and you often only get the chance to kill them while they're SL exploiting it back up to 100 in the usual sectors. Pull your finger out please Reakktor and make some well needed changes, especially to remove the obstructions like this. It's been forever since the SL system has been screwed.
i cant complain atm for the system. for me it works fine. and zonewhoring, its ok, keeps the fight going on.
tbh sl system need some boostin tho, i mean like u kill a neg sl guy u should not loose ur own sl, would make a nice point to keep sl rather on the postive side.
Apocalypsox
14-05-07, 01:12
It got alot worse after you left Unreal. About 30 people on 2 antis all clusterfucking that one door.
Sometimes it is fine and everyone fights decently but as apoc said i can get quite dumb
Well, it's already better than the damn MB zoneline.
But i dunno really how to solve the problem. Because i bet if people wouldn't have a safezone to hide in, they wouldn't be fighting at all.
Either that or they'd only be stealthwhoring or bringing PPUs.
:rolleyes:
Sometimes it is fine and everyone fights decently but as apoc said i can get quite dumb
Hahaha, Freudian slip? :lol:
It partly comes back to the whole safezone/number of guards argument again, about people not wanting to lose some shitty cheap item, and especially about people not wanting to die and pop/damage their implants. People are accustom to the pathetic zonewhoring we see today and prefer to do it, because it keeps them alive and they avoid the said annoyances. People should be forced to endure and realise the dangers of getting killed.
No safezones doesn't neccessarily mean no PvP. People would probably refer to Neptune on that subject, but the fact of the matter is, noone played Neptune because the server was pretty much empty. A few people went there and tried getting some PvP going, but most people didn't want to leave their cash/items on the other servers behind, or level up a whole new character from scratch. Why bother levelling a character, even if it's 10 times faster (or however fast it was) than the normal servers, only to have to farm tech parts and garbage all over again, while being left with an even smaller population to play with?
*digs up old "Backpacks (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=136413) (or Backbacks as I unknowingly mispelt it at the time :D) and Quickbelts (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=136413)" thread* Already half a year since I posted that. o_O Anyway, here's what I wish would happen, even if the changes are temporary to see how people react to it. Especially the one in blue.
1) Remove 50% or more of all guards in each of the sectors within reason.
2) Remove the penalty for killing neg SL runners, no matter which sector you're in. They've been naughty and should be allowed to be terminated at leisure.
3) Remove the ability for teamed runners to instantly loot your belt, forcing them to hack it like everyone else, or else it'll have to sit there until you loot it yourself (mentioned in old Backpacks and Quickbelts thread). This way you might actually have to deal with losing an item, even though it'll usually be something naff like a piece of armour, low level buff, or a stamina booster.
4) Remove all safezones except for Plaza 1, DoY CC, and TH - but spam various guards inside the entrances/zone lines of these old "safe havens" in order to make them more secure depending on their purpose.
For example the Military Base could have the equivalent of the old Trader Union guards at the entrances/zone lines, and the odd guard dotted around in other places inside the sectors, that would automatically shoot neutral or enemy runners who draw their weapon. The areas such as the Pussy Club and Club Veronique would have similair guards, that would shoot everyone for drawing their weapon.
That's how I believe guards should be, and for the most part, only be; enforcing the entrances and the other various zone lines to discourage zone whoring, along with the odd few guards dotted around the sector to have a small hand in defending the city from enemies/repelling indesirable activity, but not so it's difficult to raid. As a lot of people seem to agree, most of the defending should be done by players. I always thought it was supposed to be mostly NC runners vs DoY runners, and not NC guards vs DoY runners, or DoY guards vs NC runners.
Encourage (and somewhat force) people to play out in the open. It should be better and more fun for everyone once they kick their current awful habits, but it won't happen on its own. Reakktor need to make some changes. Guards definitely need to be decreased, as it's clearly one of the other main reasons people zone whore. These small cramped areas like in PP1 are often the only true places for enemies to "raid" Neocron without aggroing the mass of guards.
Zonewhoring exists because death has too many inconvenient circumstances (loosing a belt, SI, break of implants, poking (and the wait that goes with it), coming back again to the fighting place, etc). Maybe if death was easier, people would fight anywhere.
NB : You can kill a Red SL runner everywhere, you will not loose SL or symp killing him.
Just depends on what penalty you lower, or it makes death too trvial. Lessen SI and it becomes more like NeoFrag, which isn't entirely bad. But on the other hand, lowering SI or similairly increasing the SI decrease rate (similair to Neptune) means you have less time to hack someones belt (of which it's no doubt on 100SL because of them SL exploiting :p) after you've killed them, because they'll already be on their merry way to grab whatever they dropped.
Perhaps they should make your bones have a higher chance of popping? It's usually the brain implants that are the royal pain in the arse because of the time required to poke them back in, and depending on your class, perhaps even need to drug in order to do so. Decreasing the time spent waiting for implants to be stuck in would be a great help too.
NB : You can kill a Red SL runner everywhere, you will not loose SL or symp killing him.Since when? I killed a red SL (allied) runner a week and a half ago in Outzone 2 when they were trying to SL exploit, and lost all my SL/symp. Could have been lag perhaps after he went yellow from killing the 0/3 noob, but still. Should still be able to kill all neg SL runners (ie, both red and yellow) without penalty, especially as it's likely they're ally killers to begin with.
Since when? I killed a red SL (allied) runner a week and a half ago in Outzone 2 when they were trying to SL exploit, and lost all my SL/symp. Could have been lag perhaps after he went yellow from killing the 0/3 noob, but still. Should still be able to kill all neg SL runners (ie, both red and yellow) without penalty, especially as it's likely they're ally killers to begin with.
Nah. They go red at -32, but you can' kill them everywhere until -67.
Its dumb.
Hahaha, Freudian slip? :lol:
:lol: haha.
Anyway, I'm being pretty honest when I say it's mostly procity clans (one in particular springs to mind) who do this, despite them having guards in the zone.
I stopped pvping there once I realised it's just simply the new MB cess-pit. After 2.2 came out people started heading over to PP1 instead of MB, but there it was actual pvp, people died all the time, they didn't put away their weapon and sprint to DRE HQ or the sewers or the club as soon as their health went low or even as soon as they got their PPU shields removed. But now all the retard kiddies go there and it's just a new MB.
/gets off high horse.
Mighty Max
14-05-07, 14:20
Zonewhoring exists because death has too many inconvenient circumstances
And they say i'd be the carebear ....
LOL
Hahaha, Freudian slip? :lol:
harhar! :angel:
And yeh if the zoneline wud be removed MB wud be more populated, i think the only fix wud be to remove all zonelines :rolleyes:
William Antrim
14-05-07, 15:28
Unreal love your ideas except the one in blue. Whilst I agree with it I can see it having a negative effect on pvp. I think it will only ENCOURAGE the zonewhoring/bs we get presently as people will be EVEN more scared of death than they were before.
The problem with "dampening" down the death penalties is the negative effect it could have on op wars - for example lower si means that fighters respawn in their UG with little to no si and can come out and fight again - this in its turn leads to more sol- ninja hacking generally, and thus more problems.
The best work around i can see for this would be to lower si problem in belt drop zones but keep it the same in op zones. (40% at op fights and maybe 20% in cities etc?)
Also - an idea pinched from Guild Wars, what about having some form of drug/item - one use only per go - which removes si. Make it "reasonably" rare - so mob droppable would be good and have it there to be used by people at their own discretion. You could argue its carebear-ish but if someone loses their regant pa for example theyre gonna want to go back and try to get it at least so pop a pill and go back blasting!
Thing is, KK don't care if we find zonewhoring annoying. Chances are they won't do anything to help us, they just let people play how they want and if that happens to be shooting people while strafing along a zoneline then so be it.
Shame.
Mighty Max
14-05-07, 15:46
Obviously some players want to zonewhore (At least they act so)
And some don't. (At least they say so)
A remis?
I think kk should just create more places for us to fight, pp1 was fine until that got nerfed to hell.
I'll reserve my opinions now, until I actually get to fight in this new enviroment.
One of the main difference with Pvp in neocron and that in other MMO's is the rewards we recieve for fighting. If thier were better rewards for fighting in particular areas, other then a 1 item 100 SL belt and some symp/sl (considerig its not capped), i think more people would fight, i know i would.
If there is a REASON to fight there then i would. I 100% agree on a SL/Zone Sytem overhaul.
Lifewaster
14-05-07, 20:00
As I said in the MB zoneline thread, theres a simple reason ppl zonewhore , and thats belt drops.
Theres a imbalance between risk/reward scattered around the classes which hasnt been adressed.....for some 1 safe slot is enough with a epic weapon as secondary, for others a stealth tool or cheap throwaway high powered items (eg: piss easy 5 slot woc weapon quests) alleviates the problem, and for others theres nothing but a zoneline between them and a considerable item loss risk from engaging in PvP....
Take away zonelines, and nobody bar stealthers will PvP outside of warzones ...take away stealth and suddenly most of the ppl complaining about zonewhores revert to zonewhoring themselves.....so what is the solution.
Best solution I can see, is to take away the belt drops in City zones , that way there will at least be ppl to fight there away from the zonelines.........its not like the belt drops beyond the zonelines were of any worth anyway, since no one goes in there with anything valuable to lose in the first place.
Unreal love your ideas except the one in blue. Whilst I agree with it I can see it having a negative effect on pvp. I think it will only ENCOURAGE the zonewhoring/bs we get presently as people will be EVEN more scared of death than they were before.and
One of the main difference with Pvp in neocron and that in other MMO's is the rewards we recieve for fighting. If thier were better rewards for fighting in particular areas, other then a 1 item 100 SL belt and some symp/sl (considerig its not capped), i think more people would fight, i know i would.Already there are two slight contradictions there.
And I clearly agree with Tubby. There needs to be a reward for killing someone. *puts on old record* As I mentioned, one of the problems I find with PvP is that if someone dies, their teamed friend (often the PPU buttplugg, or stealth whore) can run along and pick up the dropped belt at ease. People have done this for so long it's become second nature, and now they whine and become hostile when they drop their cheap to replace noob items.
Disabling the ability to do this gives you more of a reward for killing someone, as they would be required to have their friends hack it, or come back and loot it themselves. During the time this person is gone, your enemies perhaps won't be able to hack the belt because there's fighting going on, or they lose the fight and all end up dropping something for you to hack. That at the very least is how it should be, instead of dropping the equvialent of bugger all because your friends can instantly pick them up.
Beyond that, I don't know what else could be done in terms of rewards. Everything else I can think of becomes easily exploitable to those who SL whore. Something needs to be done to counter the SL exploiting. That alone makes trying to hack belts a waste of time for most of us.
Most of the people who play Neocron 1 often say that Neocron 1 was more fun and that people PvP'd more. Why I wonder? I'm guessing you were able to kill people in most places without insane penalty - you most likely didn't have the rubbish SL settings we currently have. Faction alliances were more fun. You dropped items upon your death (I think someone said they dropped straight to the floor instead of into a belt?) and actually didnt' care much for the lost item, which meant you got a reward for killing them.
I understand why people zone whore, but I don't understand how they get fun from doing it. These people already have everything they need, often having WoC PA and zillions of rares, with duplicates to spare. If that isn't enough, they're often clanned too. Why do they care about losing a shitty Spy booster 1 or a piece of cheap armour they can replace in seconds?
Would you rather have fun in a large area or a small pathetic box where you often have half a chance of hitting the person you're intending to hit due to everyone getting in the way?
Take away zonelines, and nobody bar stealthers will PvP outside of warzones ...take away stealth and suddenly most of the ppl complaining about zonewhores revert to zonewhoring themselves.....so what is the solution.It all depends on the settings and the way people play the game. And as you should know, the settings determine how people play.
Guards as mentioned are a huge factor in the zone whoring. People often choose those terrible places because there are many guards everywhere else. DRE HQ, Plaza 2 near the GoGuardian, etc. Too many damn guards.
Until balancing is done, and it seems to be taking it's sweet time at the minute, everyone still has insanely overpowered weapons (Ion Pistol + Crossbow) at their disposal, which drives people to those zone lines, otherwise they often die very quickly against just a single person using them.
There will always be zone whoring whether things are balanced or not, that's why I proposed sticking some new Trader Union-like guards at those areas to help stop some of it. Perhaps giving Neocron their own shiny turrets with very short range would help. Place them at those various zone lines (ie, even inside the quest sectors that people use to try and evade death, such as perhaps the one near the PP3 GR) to shoot anyone who unleashes a weapon, along with shooting enemies automatically as a deterrant.
As with the old Parashock spam, and current HAB spam, and similair issues, "if they can do it, they will". Reakktor should just force something like this upon us to help make things better. Or they can just choose their preferred option of leaving things are they are. Bah.
I think kk should just create more places for us to fight, pp1 was fine until that got nerfed to hell.If there were less guards, there would instantly be more places to fight.
Apocalypsox
15-05-07, 07:49
i vote for moving the tradeskill center back to Plaza 2 in NC and removing all guards in PP/the guards in the corridor of P3.
Would make a nice fighting area.
Compared to the old NC1, the game is a carebear game now.
KK kept changing things in favor of people that don't really want to pvp. While pvpers got shafted all the time.
And now it's too late to revert the settings as it will drive quite a few people away.
The only chance to do this right is a working SL/symp system. Everything else would only be a quick fix rather than a solution to a problem that exists for ages now. A working system would get rid of all the crap pro city got going once again (thank you, soldierz...) and with that a proper loot and reward system could be implemented for pvp.
I really don't like the whole belt idea; if i kill someone, i want the right to instantly open the belt and take that damn item he dropped.
Once people get used to something, it's to late to go back without loosing players. :(
William Antrim
15-05-07, 10:26
The item dropping in your hand thing was removed in like february or march of 03. Belt drops have been here since then.
I disagree with Szorksmok on the carebear attitude, I think the sl system has gotten better not worse but the whole killing npcs thing has got to go. Unreal my comment is not a contradiction, its a difference of opinion, you quoted two different people mate.
The rose-tinted glasses we view nc1 with are a product of higher populations if nothing more. We knew LOTS of clans could go hack ops for a fight (1 hacker needed) and so lots of pvp took place at all of the ops not just the 2 or 3 near el farid/battledome etc. You knew at that time if you had a ppu and 3 or 4 fighters you could go pop someones op and sure as eggs is eggs someone would turn up for a fight.
Nowadays youve got MORE hackers needed for ops and a smaller pop so certain individual clans can monopolise the hackers and therefore control the ops.
This in turn creates a knock on effect that people have to find other places to fight. These places are belt drop zones and so you get problems outlined in this thread.
Once people get used to something, it's to late to go back without loosing players. :(
Tis never too late to change something for the better.
Neptune had great potential and I played on it until it just afore it was converted into the 2.2. test server (Quan), but sadly I lost a lot of respect for NC players in general because I felt they were lazy and simply wanted an easy ride. I know many are not, but this is how it felt for me at that time, but times change.
I would love to see the safe-zones removed (barring CC P1 TH) and the guards that react to players with drawn weapons as mentioned above. As unreal said, negative SL players ought to be targeted at leisure without any penalty. I support all his ideas.
The rose-tinted glasses we view nc1 with are a product of higher populations if nothing more. We knew LOTS of clans could go hack ops for a fight (1 hacker needed) and so lots of pvp took place at all of the ops not just the 2 or 3 near el farid/battledome etc. You knew at that time if you had a ppu and 3 or 4 fighters you could go pop someones op and sure as eggs is eggs someone would turn up for a fight.
Nowadays youve got MORE hackers needed for ops and a smaller pop so certain individual clans can monopolise the hackers and therefore control the ops.
This in turn creates a knock on effect that people have to find other places to fight. These places are belt drop zones and so you get problems outlined in this thread.I still see it as a general thing.
Just see how a certain clan used to counter people that were looking for fights at cycrow. Usually you didn't get any. You either got kapowned by revenge drones or ran into the old monk zerg. And if you actually managed to kill someone, they just called a ppu for a rezz. ZOMG PRECUIOS IMPLANTS MIGHT FALL OUT!1 :rolleyes:
I'm long past the point where death and item loss bother me but most people do anything to have a fight with zero chance to loose and even more important, zero chance to drop an item.
Hell, just check out the insane amount of WOC pistol PEs whoring pp1 now. It's the new APUs. People always go for the best class. No matter how stupidly overpowered they are. Like the old hybrids. Wasting people left and right without any fear of dying yet trying to make others believe hybrids take more skill to play. :lol:
I don't really know if it would actually be different with the old rules still in place but i tend to believe that. :)
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.