View Full Version : increase xbow tl or reduce craftman
i know some ppl say craftman is to powerful but if u think about it, it only does a bit more than xbow if at all but its 107dex while xbow is 100, this means xbow users an use a ppr and even regant pa wile craftman pes cannot use a ppr or regant pa cos they need the dex. so to this end i think they should either make the xbow 106-107dex or make craftman 100dex as well. seems to me this is just another attempt by KK to make it impossible to play a non woced pe.
PS. if anybody says *woc then* ill rip off your head and spit down your neck
Or they could just make the weapon damage proporional to TL like they said they would.
Apocalypsox
12-05-07, 23:17
or they could remove the xbow *Cough*
ashley watts
12-05-07, 23:27
well if you dont have woc surely there should be a little penalty of reaching damage of the same potnetial of woc weapons, im not saying woc weapons should be overpowered im saying basically the woc weapons should come with the lower TL to get a bonus (as mentioned somwhere about the bonuses that rare weps, woc weps get), but you can get a Very Nice setup with the craftsman dream just as you can with xbow
Dribble Joy
13-05-07, 00:40
*Insert usual comment about single shot and beam weapons.*
craftman needs 7 more dex an does around about same damage as xbow how is that fair, that 7 dex means xbow pes can use regant pa and even a ppr wile i crnt use any of those or i crnt get enough dex for craftman, they r just forcing pes to woc!, tanks dont have to woc to be good so why should pes
*Insert usual comment about single shot and beam weapons.*
*points out that both weapons being discusssed are single shot*
ashley watts
13-05-07, 02:22
*Insert usual comment about single shot and beam weapons.*
...:D
Apocalypsox
13-05-07, 03:04
craftman needs 7 more dex an does around about same damage as xbow how is that fair, that 7 dex means xbow pes can use regant pa and even a ppr wile i crnt use any of those or i crnt get enough dex for craftman, they r just forcing pes to woc!, tanks dont have to woc to be good so why should pes
Its fair by needing 260 million XP for the Xbow, not the Nailgun.
Not to mention you need the most expensive item ingame too.
No the point is that WoC should be an alternative not a necessity. That's what it was planned to be and that what the Balancing was supposed to do.
Personally I believe Barney is right, that the TL should be raised therefore making it harder for a PE to use, a class who I don't believe should be able to use it at all. The spy is meant to be the primary pistol/rifle user and should only be able to use it IMO because having a lot less CON and PSI than the PE therefore having a weaker resist setup.
The Xbow needs a serious damage nerf or it's TL increased a lot. Same with the other woc pistols. Once again it's woc PEs that outshine every other class. Good job KK. o_O
I think all single shot and beam weapons should have their damage reduced so theyd be in line with the burst weapons.
BALANCE IS WORSE THAN BEFORE THAT DAMN PATCH THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BALANCE ALL CLASSES.
Incredible. :(
It is about time they sorted this out, it has been a while since X-Bows came out and they are STILL way too powerful for the TL. Increase the TL or lower the damage or frequency!
I think all single shot and beam weapons should have their damage reduced so theyd be in line with the burst
You want more damage reuctions :o.
Once I've got my immediate uni concerns out the way, I want to produced a bunch of data on damage/time vs TL, to show that KK haven't produced anything like what they claim and get them to do something about it.
Dribble Joy
13-05-07, 18:05
Beam/single shot do too much dmg, burst don't do enough, so rather than bringing one to the level of the other, somewhere inbetween.
I would rather see burst weapons boosted to single shot weapons, than single shot being nerfed to burst.
You want more damage reuctions :o.
Once I've got my immediate uni concerns out the way, I want to produced a bunch of data on damage/time vs TL, to show that KK haven't produced anything like what they claim and get them to do something about it.
Would be quite interesting to see actually.
yea were all behind you on your project cmaster, mayb if sombody actually proved to them that weapons rnt working how they should they will fix it. also its not just the xbow which needs a tl increase, dissy is a tl115 gun or somthing but its utterly useless. personally i dont think that im asking to much for xbow Tl to be increased, its not like im asking for it to be removed im just saying that its stupid that pes can use such a powerful gun so easilly when the point of pes was meant to be they can use midway stuff wich other classes can use like shields and armour, granted they have taken a step in the rite direction but i still think increasing xbow tl, even just to 105 so PEs need to choose between regant pa and ppr would make it more fair.
Apocalypsox
13-05-07, 20:32
we discussed this yesterday but i thought i would throw this out there for everyone that wasnt with us during this convo.
FIX TEH FARKING BURST WEAPONS is the moral of this story.
Dissy did somewhere around 80 damage to Diablos tank, while HL did nearly 150 i think. Thats quite a difference for a gun that is 3 TLs higher and doing about half the damage.
Dribble Joy
13-05-07, 20:39
Increase the xbow's TL and it'll be even more powerful, it just plain needs a dmg reduction.
Btw, how do you find exact dmg values? Is it in the logs somewhere?
it wont be more powerful cos tl dont affect damage atm, either that or most of the guns in NC are bugged (points out apocs post about dissy doing as much damage as my grans walking stick)
Increase the xbow's TL and it'll be even more powerful, it just plain needs a dmg reduction.
Btw, how do you find exact dmg values? Is it in the logs somewhere?
Well, we have the unresisted values in the damage logs, yes?
So we can just have somebody being shot. At full health, in the ches. (chest has no damage multiplier, full health avoids any of the "black area-less damage" effect if that still exists) We can average over 5 shots if there seems to be any variance, but I doubt it.
btw i would like a admins input here on 2 things, A. did KK intend damage to be relative to tl or are some guns just bugged? and B. how hard would it be to increase the tl of the xbow because im getting a lot of positive responce for this idea and i really dont see any downsides and i dont think it is unfair at all
It's isn't just about the guns damage that makes a weapon overpowered though, you have to consider the kind of defence you can get using a certain weapon.
For example a spy in 2.1 was pretty ok, because they were fairly weak compared to the so called overpowered xbow PE.
thats why i suggested increasing tl so PEs who use xbow cannot use ppr and regant pa with it
thats why i suggested increasing tl so PEs who use xbow cannot use ppr and regant pa with it
indeed
ashley watts
13-05-07, 23:08
thats why i suggested increasing tl so PEs who use xbow cannot use ppr and regant pa with it
Sounds Kool :cool:
I would rather see burst weapons boosted to single shot weapons, than single shot being nerfed to burst.
I agree.
But I think you need to factor in how easy each weapon is to use as well, such as ret lock charecteristics for example and rof vs clip size... simply analyseing dot in a power duel type enviroment won't give you a full analysis of a weapons ability in pvp combat.
I feel it is however quite obvious that good pistol pe set ups are over powered in comparison to good set ups in other classes, and also apus are very underpowered just from reading these forums.
Perhaps the Ion weapons (especially the Pistol) need to be taken into consideration along with the stupendous Crossbow damage output. In combination with WoC weapons, and the mentioned high resists A PE can achieve with them, it makes the class/profession insanely overpowered.
The usual routine is to take a big chunk of your enemies health off with an Ion Pistol and then switch to the Crossbow. A Spy would only be able to last a matter of seconds, and perhaps so would most other classes. A PE shouldn't be able to unleash that much damage upon you, making me suggest the Ion weapons should become Spy-only. It's currently like the 2.1 APU in Pistol form, and a fecking PE of all classes shouldn't be able to achieve it.
God knows how long it'll be before any changes are seen to take care of all the issues being mentioned all over the forum lately. As people keep noting it's been over a month now since the last small patch. :(
I think you need to factor in how easy each weapon is to use as wellDefinitely.
omg tanks need ion cannon!!! iv jus gone lowtech so if they did make ion weps only spy then theyd better give me my dex exp back. and i rly dont see why KK dont increase xbow tl, all im getting is positive feedback and i doubt its that hard to do rly, jus a minor patch they cud even fix some other things like giving apus hab so ppl wud use them again
Thats a good point, why don't tanks have an ion cannon O_o
bloody classism... :rolleyes: :p
There is one isn't there? Think it has like 16 rounds, and owns the shit out of a Spy. :p I wasn't talking about the Ion Cannon earlier of course. :D
Well IMO the ion rifle are nice to have on PEs..
Its just the ion pistol that ********** the fuck out of anyone :rolleyes:
Dribble Joy
14-05-07, 04:57
thats why i suggested increasing tl so PEs who use xbow cannot use ppr and regant pa with it
Using several MC5s and drugs I presume?
CCP, Co-Ord 3 and SF gets you 96.88 dex, RF as well gets you to 99.04.
Hopefully with the imp rework multiple MC5s will be less efficient, since a pistol one would nerf RC etc.
Besides, if the xbow's dmg is reduced enough it shouldn't matter. PA3 has lower armour, but more offence effects.
for my craftman i need 2 MC5s, coordinator3 SWAT pa3 and rf to get just enough dex... a xbow pe needs 1 MC (leaving room for ppr) and no dex pa (leaving room for regant) making my life very hard. they should either make craftman tl lower so it is a viable gun for pes to use or increase xbow tl so it isnt viable gun for pes to use
1 MC (leaving room for ppr) and no dex pa (leaving room for regant) making my life very hard. they should either make craftman tl lower so it is a viable gun for pes to use or increase xbow tl so it isnt viable gun for pes to use
I'd like you to show me how that is possible, without taking 2 dex drugs.
I'd love to make a lowtech no PA PE called Tim Taylor and have him use the Craftmans Dream, without drugging or gimping myself :(
do u mean how do i use craftman or about xbow?
Dribble Joy
14-05-07, 17:38
CD is tl107, it's really not meant to be a PE weapon.
hmmm well mayb they crnt use ppr an regant pa without 2 drugs but my point stil stands that craftman needs 7more dex and all u get is a bit better freq
Dribble Joy
14-05-07, 18:36
Well if you have the same sub-skills as with an xbow, then the increase in dmg/time is going to be small.
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