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I know, i know... It's summer, long weekends, lots of holidays, who would like to work? At least i don't wanna.
But there's quite a few things i'm curious about.
Drones
The actual number one problem. One stupid droner can solo every damn thing in the game. With ease. It takes 1 drone and less than 3 minutes to drop the MC5 base commander. You don't even have to heal the drone. I can solo the chaos caves, hell i cleaned the doy tunnels down to level 3. I'm fucking drowning in "rare drops".
Not to mention drones cost pretty much no money at all. I might lose a drone to a bug once in a while but apart from that and some repair lube, nothing. I don't need to get armor, drugs, spells, ammo, nothing else i have to repair, i barely ever need a medkit or sta boosters.
Is this intended? How long will this shit go on? There's several people selling HUNDREDS of rare parts each day. Every few minutes someone wants to trade MC5 parts. I can ultimate pretty much every rare i'm gonna build from now on. I got 5 slot versions of all the drop only weapons, lots of VK/titan armor, rare drugs, there is absolutely NOTHING i can't get on my own. Not to mention i don't even have to be careful. FFS i can stick a drone right into a 120/120 mobs face and still drop it.
The only thing i haven't tried really is the worm tunnels due to the water down there but who needs a shitty melee rare anyway. o_O
What's the plan here? Everyone gets a capped droner so no other class ever needs to do pve again? :mad:
PvE
Next stop. Low and midlevel pve is broken. It's too hard, not even remotely rewarding enough and extremely frustrating. High end it's fine actually.
Oh and please fix Hoppers, Grims and Spiderbots.
Nanites.
Pain in the ass. Completely. Wonderful idea, great concept, SHIT implementation. It takes to long to buff up, too many tools to keep track of, lots of nanite tools and ammo stacks cluttering up my inventory, they all fucking look alike, the heal tool is wank due to it's nanite concentration duration. Please do something about this. Personally i love the idea of modding a tool with i.e. 2 energy and 2 fire mods so if you use it you'll get 4 injections at once. Then lower the ammo and tools weight, give them different colors and increase the clipsize.
Weapon balance.
Come on KK, you can't be serious about balance right now. If it all seems fine on paper, you only have to try pvp for one night to find out half the guns are seriously overpowered while the other half is shit.
WoC.
Thank you for making woc a pvp requierement instead of an option like you actually stated. It should not make such a huge difference in damage output and (especially for PEs) available setups. And why do i have to farm mobs like mad, then hope for slots and good stats on the rare build while i can run a piss easy quest for a 4 to 5 slot artifact gun that mostly outdamages the rares anyway?
Quests.
So, why are the new woc quests so damn easy? You could just put an NPC next to the TH genrep who hands out 5 slot artifact woc guns. Same effect. Less time wasted. Half the epic quests (that are for low to midlevel characters) are harder to complete.
If one could actually do those. Half the epics (and some jones quests) are broken again or still have wrong descriptions. How long again are those ingame now?
Not to mention the rewards. There's 2 epic rewards that are actually worth doing the epic. Protopharm and NEXT. Maybe TT for the laser guns, i heard they're quite nice now. The rest is useless now or has been since the epics came out.
Please give us some more information. I want to know what's going on. Because right now the only game i ever really enjoyed playing is finally going down the drain. :(
Anyone else got questions they really want answered, go ahead and hijack my thread. :lol:
you forgot to mention that its possible to drone in less then a day from cap to WoC 1 or a more [on Spy`s, for PE`s it kinda suckz, but atleast its better then all other gun classes :D ] :eek:
you forgot to mention that its possible to drone in less then a day from cap to WoC 1 or a more [on Spy`s, for PE`s it kinda suckz, but atleast its better then all other gun classes :D ] :eek:
Hehe, kinda obvious if you see how easy drones are. :)
One RK-1000 can get you WAY over 1 million xp in dex and int. Compared to any other class this is insane. :(
The focus still lies on bug fixing and finetuning. We will inform you as soon as we have information about any possible game updates in the dimension of Neocron Evolution 2.1 or 2.2.
I don't want to know about the next big rework.
I just want to know if you are even planning on fixing the problems i mentioned.
I mean, drones are ruining the complete economy since 2.2 came out, will it just stay this way? Do you even feel like drones need to be toned down?
It would take someone who knows about these things, what, 5 minutes to answer ALL of my questions. :(
I cannot give you any details about the bug fixing and finetuning progress but we are reading the forums closely to evaluate which issues should receive the highest priority.
I cannot give you any details about the bug fixing and finetuning progress but we are reading the forums closely to evaluate which issues should receive the highest priority.
I know that you guys actually read the forums and at least consider all the crap we post here. I've even seen stuff that users posted make it into patches or even the balance patches. :lol:
But to me it just seems the information stopped. We're only getting told "We're doing something." I want to know WHAT.
It really can't be hard to get a weekly announcement up about the next upcoming patch or issues you're working on RIGHT NOW.
For example, if i knew there was a change to drones coming up to bring them in line i'd be happy already. But i don't hear a single word about it while i'm
watching the last bit of NCs economy break down.
Just saying "We're working on something." doesn't satisfy anyone. :(
Agree with all your points. Definitely important things KK need to be looking at.
Another problem with the drones is their insane hit points when used in PvP, they can take down non-ppu'd runners with ease and they take ages to shoot down. Am considering deleting my 5 year old PE and starting a droner, since PE's will just never fit into the game's mechanics unless they are given a unique ability in teamplay.
And I also agree on the weapons, its great that KK rebalanced the code, but everyone is now using the same 4 weapons in pvp. Beam and Ion weapons all the way. Its crazy to me, weapons should be doing very similar damage, it should come down to speccing points and aiming skills as to who wins a battle, regardless of weapon type!
Yes, the weapon issue sucks.
There's so many guns, especially new ones, yet it already comes down to very few that are viable.
Weren't they supposed to be balanced in terms of damageoutput and the possible defense you can get? Because that's just not there.
There's several setups, if i meet them i just turn and leave. WoC pistol Pes for example, that lowtech pistol and the xbow are just sick.
Same with the Ravager or ion cannon tanks.
Last duels against a tank i had showed it pretty nice. I was using FL. If he had a CS, i won. When he used the ion cannon, i stood no chance. o_O
Last duels against a tank i had showed it pretty nice. I was using FL. If he had a CS, i won. When he used the ion cannon, i stood no chance. o_O
Interesting. Because I do better against tanks who use ion cannon. If they use plasma weapons, that tends to be when I lose...
the only reason y ionic shotgun weapons are overpowered is that they do 3 different types of damage.
piercing, xray , poison are affecting 3 different shields
piercing, xray , poison are affecting 3 different shieldsHeh, guess the 3 kinds of nanites i didn't have on me that night. :lol:
Archtemplar
02-05-07, 18:07
PvE
Next stop. Low and midlevel pve is broken. It's too hard, not even remotely rewarding enough and extremely frustrating. High end it's fine actually.
Oh and please fix Hoppers, Grims and Spiderbots.
I dont entirely agree with this. Leveling a low level character is only hard if you follow the pre-2.2 methods. First level sewer is useless, aggies are to be attacked much later too. I leveled a character (rifle spy) from /2 to /50 in a short period of time with little difficulty, as have many others. Consider training grounds like the low level sewers found below the lvl1 sewers, then go to the beggar sewers, then jeriko, then launcher at mb. Its not difficult, its just different.
spikeownzu
02-05-07, 18:13
I know, i know... It's summer, long weekends, lots of holidays, who would like to work? At least i don't wanna.
But there's quite a few things i'm curious about.
Drones
The actual number one problem. One stupid droner can solo every damn thing in the game. With ease. It takes 1 drone and less than 3 minutes to drop the MC5 base commander. You don't even have to heal the drone. I can solo the chaos caves, hell i cleaned the doy tunnels down to level 3. I'm fucking drowning in "rare drops".
Not to mention drones cost pretty much no money at all. I might lose a drone to a bug once in a while but apart from that and some repair lube, nothing. I don't need to get armor, drugs, spells, ammo, nothing else i have to repair, i barely ever need a medkit or sta boosters.
Is this intended? How long will this shit go on? There's several people selling HUNDREDS of rare parts each day. Every few minutes someone wants to trade MC5 parts. I can ultimate pretty much every rare i'm gonna build from now on. I got 5 slot versions of all the drop only weapons, lots of VK/titan armor, rare drugs, there is absolutely NOTHING i can't get on my own. Not to mention i don't even have to be careful. FFS i can stick a drone right into a 120/120 mobs face and still drop it.
The only thing i haven't tried really is the worm tunnels due to the water down there but who needs a shitty melee rare anyway. o_O
What's the plan here? Everyone gets a capped droner so no other class ever needs to do pve again? :mad:
PvE
Next stop. Low and midlevel pve is broken. It's too hard, not even remotely rewarding enough and extremely frustrating. High end it's fine actually.
Oh and please fix Hoppers, Grims and Spiderbots.
Nanites.
Pain in the ass. Completely. Wonderful idea, great concept, SHIT implementation. It takes to long to buff up, too many tools to keep track of, lots of nanite tools and ammo stacks cluttering up my inventory, they all fucking look alike, the heal tool is wank due to it's nanite concentration duration. Please do something about this. Personally i love the idea of modding a tool with i.e. 2 energy and 2 fire mods so if you use it you'll get 4 injections at once. Then lower the ammo and tools weight, give them different colors and increase the clipsize.
Weapon balance.
Come on KK, you can't be serious about balance right now. If it all seems fine on paper, you only have to try pvp for one night to find out half the guns are seriously overpowered while the other half is shit.
WoC.
Thank you for making woc a pvp requierement instead of an option like you actually stated. It should not make such a huge difference in damage output and (especially for PEs) available setups. And why do i have to farm mobs like mad, then hope for slots and good stats on the rare build while i can run a piss easy quest for a 4 to 5 slot artifact gun that mostly outdamages the rares anyway?
Quests.
So, why are the new woc quests so damn easy? You could just put an NPC next to the TH genrep who hands out 5 slot artifact woc guns. Same effect. Less time wasted. Half the epic quests (that are for low to midlevel characters) are harder to complete.
If one could actually do those. Half the epics (and some jones quests) are broken again or still have wrong descriptions. How long again are those ingame now?
Not to mention the rewards. There's 2 epic rewards that are actually worth doing the epic. Protopharm and NEXT. Maybe TT for the laser guns, i heard they're quite nice now. The rest is useless now or has been since the epics came out.
Please give us some more information. I want to know what's going on. Because right now the only game i ever really enjoyed playing is finally going down the drain. :(
Anyone else got questions they really want answered, go ahead and hijack my thread. :lol:
lol, so much truth in 1 post... lol
this is like a mock on kk :(
William Antrim
02-05-07, 18:52
the only reason y ionic shotgun weapons are overpowered is that they do 3 different types of damage.
piercing, xray , poison are affecting 3 different shields
Disintegrated ammo in Raygun weapons do too.... oh wait theyre shit.... nvm.
100% agree with the post makers points here.
That s just what you people cried for, before 2.2 came out.
Sorry, but not KKs fault.
That s just what you people cried for, before 2.2 came out.
Sorry, but not KKs fault.Err? I can't remember crying so KK would stop telling us anything at all.
You rather post something useful.
Asurmen Spec Op
03-05-07, 20:13
I cannot give you any details about the bug fixing and finetuning progress but we are reading the forums closely to evaluate which issues should receive the highest priority.
Fix WoC and I dont come to Germany to hug you :o
I sayed everything the full time before the 2.2.
WOC should not be a Must have it should be a Cool to have.
Like the WOCPAs they are fine.
Drones are different i liked very much PvP with a droner was just funny (unforgotten, blocked with 3 droners in TS all Open GRs)but lvling was so fucking boring just take 20 Area drones go CRP and make something on the left mousebutton (sometimes start a new drone) great if u go to shower or in vacations but boring for playing.
but thats KK great ideas bad result..... is this really a german company?
Most of the 2.1 weapons indeed are unbalanced or have problems. The direction WoC has turned in 2.2 has also disappointed me. It still isn't a requirement for PvP, you can still do perfectly fine without it, but the advantage of WoC is now too great compared to before. The damage outputs, and the ease/lack of cost at which artifact 4-5 slot WoC weapons are obtained is rediculous.
I've done the Reaper Quest four times (twice today, twice yesterday), and got 5 slots each time, plus Van Dyk has never been able to shoot me even though I'm stood directly in front of him - except Snowcrash concluded it was lag. It only cost me say 20-30k in GR fees, and the short amount of time involved, is far too easy. It's already been said: Why bother hunting for techs if you can get uber weapons at ease?
Before the free time ran out I LOM'd unreal to drones so I could level easier and more quickly by myself. Needless to say drones are very effective, but I don't see drones them as a problem. It takes a bit longer for mobs to kill them, yes, but even in the places like the Chaos Caves, they get damaged pretty fast. Unless you use a weapon like an RG drone in there, you'll end up cheating the system by putting the drone into certain hotspots in order to level at a constant rate.
Today in one run of the Chaos Caves, I earnt 27million XP. Admittedly it was a lucky run with a fair amount of Chaos Lieutenants spawned, who in turn spawned babies, but it's still not bad XP. I get an absolute minimum of 10million XP per run. People who whine about WoC being a grind should get a bit of common sense and level the quickest ways they can (ie, AoE) instead of fannying about killing things one at a time.
I've refused to go to places like the Ceres Labs and MC5 as a droner, after what people have said about drones, so I can't really comment about that. Though for that reason alone, I might go there simply to find out what it's really like at present. I'll hazard a guess that the reason most complaints exist is due to people being able to safespot their drone, compared to the drone being instagibbed by those mobs as they were in 2.1.
As for "PvP", I think drones are also fine. In the past, drones have been underpowered, and not much of a worry. This is why most droners resorted to spamming Revenges constantly, which wasn't good for people on the receiving end. Now, you have drones that are worthy of making you hunt the droner. It's not a bad thing.
The slowness of reinjecting nanites and the heal concentration has been brought up a lot and deservedly so. Those couple of tweaks are all that's needed there really.
Before the free time ran out I LOM'd unreal to drones so I could level easier and more quickly by myself. Needless to say drones are very effective, but I don't see drones them as a problem. It takes a bit longer for mobs to kill them, yes, but even in the places like the Chaos Caves, they get damaged pretty fast. Unless you use a weapon like an RG drone in there, you'll end up cheating the system by putting the drone into certain hotspots in order to level at a constant rate.
Today in one run of the Chaos Caves, I earnt 27million XP. Admittedly it was a lucky run with a fair amount of Chaos Lieutenants spawned, who in turn spawned babies, but it's still not bad XP. I get an absolute minimum of 10million XP per run. People who whine about WoC being a grind should get a bit of common sense and level the quickest ways they can (ie, AoE) instead of fannying about killing things one at a time.
I've refused to go to places like the Ceres Labs and MC5 as a droner, after what people have said about drones, so I can't really comment about that. Though for that reason alone, I might go there simply to find out what it's really like at present. I'll hazard a guess that the reason most complaints exist is due to people being able to safespot their drone, compared to the drone being instagibbed by those mobs as they were in 2.1.
Drones can solo every place without having to exploit. As i already said in some other thread, i can stick an RK-1000 into the mc5 base commanders face and drop him with just that one drone.
That's what bugs me. The fact that every other class is shafted when it comes to solo pve while droners wtfpwn everything.
Granted, some places are hard to start at like the doy tunnels or ceres mines but once you've done it a few times it's piss easy.
As for drone pvp, i understand that the droner is definately dead when his body is found. But how should i do that? You have zero chance to destroy a drone, zero chance if you can't stealth and even if you can it's hard. If he spots you first, good luck getting into stealth fast enough.
Clever droners use AoE anyway, it wastes everyone without even having to aim. :lol:
I can understand your irritation about this but we simply do not want to promise you something we cannot keep in the end. We are still on it, don't worry. ;)
Lifewaster
04-05-07, 12:43
Maybe a good idea is to launch more discussion polls for these big issues, (like the PVP dmg reduction poll) ....this helps players to see that there is development attention to a issue without the need for this kind of thread.
A "what to do about drones?" poll would become very busy I think
The droner class should have never existed in Neocron.
Isolated in his own solitude the droner usually tries to find a hidespot over a hill, using his glider or exploiting inside a tree log. From there on the drone launches to spoil everyone else's fun.
This is a game about involving with other people not going solo flying a thing.
It also kills the only reason we like neocron and that is: pvp.
I say keep overpowered drones for looting, rares exploiting Ceres Labs and so on, but when pvp is concerned nerf it so much, so that a drone does the damage a TL20 weapon does. Toy can still keep high resists of drones in pvp though
Droning is a fun class, there's nothing else quite like it in the game but with the amount of exploits a droner can use, it makes the class too easy to play. If you asked me to name one single skilled droner I don't think I could.
Jini if there's one class that should never have existed, it's definitely PPUs.
Droning is a fun class, there's nothing else quite like it in the game but with the amount of exploits a droner can use, it makes the class too easy to play. If you asked me to name one single skilled droner I don't think I could.
Jini if there's one class that should never have existed, it's definitely PPUs.
Let's just agree both PPUs and droners suck because they fuck pvp over. :)
And i don't get how you can see droning as a fun class, all you gotta do now is launch the drone and then hold down the fire button for a minute or two. o_O
And i don't get how you can see droning as a fun class, all you gotta do now is launch the drone and then hold down the fire button for a minute or two. o_OI launch myself from bed every day and then hold down the keep-awake@work button for 8 hours or 9.
Wait.. my life isn't fun either ;)
The ppu is also yet another mistake.
Destroys game balance and give hell to devs, steals kills from skilled players and helps unskilled ones to win ...sol...errr oops :p
I think its best to keep this topic on the main issues raised by the thread starter rather than talk about PPU's role, as KK are showing signs of reading this thread.
On Droners, given the fact that a players life (imps, armour etc) is not at immediate risk, there is no way the drone should do as much damage, and be as hardy as it is now, especially in PvP. The drone should be a distraction, a tactical weapon used to sway the focus of the oppositions fire, not a primary damage dealer. So for me, if the damage must stay high, then the health of the drones must be reduced.
Well if we're talking about balance in pvp the PPU is definately more of a problem than droners especially after the damage reduction. It's the PPU that ruins the fun of PVP more so than the droner, but both need to be nerfed.
Dribble Joy
04-05-07, 16:59
Bringing up an earlier subject, I don't think WoC is as awesome as it was, the problem is that many of them are of the type that are currently overpowered.
The reaper is OK, but not insane. The AK is nasty, but then it's tl113.
On the other hand, the xbow is a single shot weapon, as is the freeman and the warhammer.
If the single-shot/beam issue was fixed, most of the WoC weapons wouldn't be that much better than the rares.
Of course the imp system doesn't help. Higher TL weapons means more dex imps, meaning more sub-skills.
All things are true. Many thingys went wrong when 2.2 comed out. There arent many weapons which classes cant use on PvP, medium level mobs very hard to kill, drones too owerpowered and Xbow hurt like hell :lol:
Bringing up an earlier subject, I don't think WoC is as awesome as it was, the problem is that many of them are of the type that are currently overpowered.
The reaper is OK, but not insane. The AK is nasty, but then it's tl113.
On the other hand, the xbow is a single shot weapon, as is the freeman and the warhammer.
If the single-shot/beam issue was fixed, most of the WoC weapons wouldn't be that much better than the rares.
Of course the imp system doesn't help. Higher TL weapons means more dex imps, meaning more sub-skills.
I also gotta say most fights i had so far were either in NF or at the MB zoneline as my skills are somewhat fucked over by my damn laptop and my wrecked right hand.
So most woc Pes i ran into were not only using overpowered guns but also had drugs up to the eyeballs. :)
"Real" pvp should look different once the damn guns are balanced. If that happens anytime soon. o_O
Let's just agree both PPUs and droners suck because they fuck pvp over. :)
What OP fights would be whit out PPU or teamplay whitout PPUs? Boyz fighting whit big guns. So when people die in OPfights they just gr back to ug get pokes and back up --> dead again gr back to ug poke up and back to fighting and i think this hapend again again and again... Also in other side people who have attacked to OP and die GR th to get pokes and back to OP :lol: This sound any better than have PPUs in fights...?
Asurmen Spec Op
05-05-07, 22:52
What OP fights would be whit out PPU or teamplay whitout PPUs? Boyz fighting whit big guns. So when people die in OPfights they just gr back to ug get pokes and back up --> dead again gr back to ug poke up and back to fighting and i think this hapend again again and again... Also in other side people who have attacked to OP and die GR th to get pokes and back to OP :lol: This sound any better than have PPUs in fights...?
Yep.
5char
Apocalypsox
05-05-07, 23:08
What OP fights would be whit out PPU or teamplay whitout PPUs? Boyz fighting whit big guns. So when people die in OPfights they just gr back to ug get pokes and back up --> dead again gr back to ug poke up and back to fighting and i think this hapend again again and again... Also in other side people who have attacked to OP and die GR th to get pokes and back to OP :lol: This sound any better than have PPUs in fights...?
Yeah...that sounds great! When your defending and you kill someone, there actully not THERE for 2-5 minutes! Its like you actually KILLED someone, instead of some disco ball erupting the second they fell over and them shooting you in the ass again less than a minute later.
Sultan has a point. Those memorable 2+ hour OP wars you all loved, would they have happened without PPUs?
I agree with what you guys are saying about PPUs - I wish they were deleted and another alternative was put in to replace them but the points you're making just don't really cut it..
I cannot give you any details about the bug fixing and finetuning progress but we are reading the forums closely to evaluate which issues should receive the highest priority.
Theres no fucking reason we shouldn't have daily small patches to keep the game going in a logical fashion over the small yet highly influential bugs and imbalances. This is of course in contrast to the once every 2-6 month "big" patch that could've been accomplished in 2-3 days work of a single diligent individual... spend an hour everyday to release something productive the next morning and maybe there wont be thread
after thread
after thread
about what we want done,
and then! IMAGINE IT! Not having to cover up the fact that nothings happening and wasting just as much time doing it as would be taken fixing the simple MISTAKES that've been made.
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