View Full Version : Should cities be made raidable?
I was thinking more along of the lines of KK maybe making it possible when they release 2.3 (which, yes, i know is miles off and 2.2 needs a lot of work). So this would probably be better off in the 'what next?' thread but i wanted to get a whole discussion on it.
I know this isn't my idea but wanted to see what people think of the idea. No flaming/whining or going OT please and any ideas as to how to the implement this and possible effects on the game would be great.
As for me, i've only been in the game about 2 months and still have my LE in so i don't really know much about how to implement it, whether it's a good idea, and what any possible effects might be . However the idea of it definitely appeals to me.
Firstly, they kind of are raidable. It's just difficult due to the overwhelming amount of now-mercilessly hard NPCs.
All that needs to happen is for them to simply delete 90% of NPCs, leaving the majority of each city "Player-defended".
This would add an element to the game that has ALWAYS been missing. Also, why wait for 2.3?
It would take one of the Devs about an hour wouldnt it?
lol i don't have a clue. that's why i was asking.
and i suggested 2.3 as i wasn't sure how much work would be needed (obviously depending on different peoples' opinions). Doesn't have to be then.
Well, they are technically raidable, but as I say... The NPCs make it almost impossible for it to be an even battle.
I think overwhelming numbers (Warcraft-esque) would potentially do it... but this is NC, and we just need to get rid of those NPC's :D
[F6]Knight
14-04-07, 13:00
i took a trip into NC yesterday with my spy and a spy buddy
PP3 and PP2 are very nice for pvp. few guards around that can avoided easily and tbh they dont seem to hurt that much
got hit once by one of those city guards with a plasma rifle and he only took off 100 health from my spy with a rather bad resist setup and no nanites running at that time.
but once you go near plaza the amount of guards just increases soooo much
5 guards on each corner with a copbot patrol nearby ... its insane
imho remove most of the guards from all sectors except plaza 1 and maybe one or two of the via rosso sectors (since they r like the government part or neocron or whatever)
and maybe add more shops/important stuff in the less secure sectors so ppl stop hiding in plaza 1
btw. for the love of god give us the ability to pull weapons in plaza 1.
i stealthed in there a while ago after coming back to the game and why the hell do the copbots yell 'drop that weapon' when i try to pull my gun without being in line of sight of any copbot?
just let us pull weapons everywhere but when you go into the agro radius + line of sight of a guard or copbot they ll yell 'drop that weapon' or spam warnings in chat. like in the old days if i remember correctly. where stormbots near the NC gates would go medieval on your ass if you waved a weapon in their face for too long
Knight']i took a trip into NC yesterday with my spy and a spy buddy
PP3 and PP2 are very nice for pvp.
I've gone through plaza a few times. It's easy enough to get around but actually fighting there is an adventure to say the least.
I do think they should remove some of the guards, however they should remove more guards in certain areas. Make it so areas with less foot traffic are less guarded. That way there will be areas in the city that should be avoided, but for the most part it will still be safe.
awkward silence
14-04-07, 17:07
read below
Mighty Max
14-04-07, 17:45
The core city zones shouldnt be raidable by small to middle groups.
This should be domain of bigger events including whole factions. Because the factions should be the ones which make the "big politics" in neocron/the dome rather then just another anarchist.
Doc Holliday
14-04-07, 18:23
encourage it. hqs are safezones so use them if the shit hits the fan and a raid team comes. i think it would add excitement in all fairness. i would love to raid doy for sure.
Put the noob stealth back to 10 sec (or give pe's another 10 sec stealth). I want to be able to visit nc for nostalgia.
Agreed :D PEs would finally be able to raid again.. as it is now, the stealth tool is just anoying
the guards in pepper aren't too bad. I was raiding NC with some other TG's and we killed one of the Screaming Horse guys, and they don't do too much damage. I haven't been to Plaza so i wouldn't know what It's like there, but i don't have any problem with the npc level being dropped :angel: and DoY is somewhat player defended, the other day some pro-cities came into the fa sector and were going around killing for SL, so R2K came and killed them, defending their sector. :p However, I think that KK should implement some goal to raiding cities, rather than going there, and waiting for some defenders to come kill you. I think that there should be something you can do, kill certain npc's for money and SL, raid and loot certain container for valuable items to sell for money? (I think there was an event like this a while ago where dome ppl could raid NC depots in the outzone?) overall I think cities should be definately more raidable than they are atm :D
the guards in pepper aren't too bad. I was raiding NC with some other TG's and we killed one of the Screaming Horse guys, and they don't do too much damage.
Bit different when you're in P2 with potentially 6+ guards shooting you :p
Eternal Pink
15-04-07, 00:58
Yeah a team can take down the screaming horse in pp3 to pp1 without much trouble, its just having to do it every 3 mins due to respawn gets kind of annoying.
I like the idea of money rewards for killing NPC's tho, say only anti's get rewards for wasting pro faction personnal like the BT director in via 1 kinda thing ( like 10 to 50k per hit ) and Pro's get money for wasting the anti faction peeps lurking around in the HQ sectors.
You could even add in a money reward for the peeps that come and kill the raider based off the amount of money that the raider has earnt.
Yeah a team can take down the screaming horse in pp3 to pp1 without much trouble, its just having to do it every 3 mins due to respawn gets kind of annoying.
I like the idea of money rewards for killing NPC's tho, say only anti's get rewards for wasting pro faction personnal like the BT director in via 1 kinda thing ( like 10 to 50k per hit ) and Pro's get money for wasting the anti faction peeps lurking around in the HQ sectors.
You could even add in a money reward for the peeps that come and kill the raider based off the amount of money that the raider has earnt.
yes, but in pepper, you only kill the guard who are chasing you around and leaving their guarding spot, then they respawn and you dont get the aggro again. (if you do go get them to chase you again, I'd advise just not doing that next time :p )
well, it is a bit hard for anti's to get to via 1, and very easy for procities to get to the pepper HQ's so i think there should be a bit of a reconsideration done in this aspect. and I mean not just money and SL from mob kills, but extra money from killing enemy faction nps's. (you could get missions to kill enemy faction npc's from a citycom maybe?)
and also I still like the idea of "raiding" in where you go loot someplace and run off with valuable stuff :D
yessssssssssssssssssss some zones like doy center and plaza 1 should be safe
but i think the outlying areas like pepper park etc should be raidable and inner working also with big teams.
yessssssssssssssssssss some zones like doy center and plaza 1 should be safe
but i think the outlying areas like pepper park etc should be raidable and inner working also with big teams.
yes, HQ's, Certain main and important sectors should be safe zones, but I think that most other zones should be city sectors/outzone sectors and have fewer guards than they do right now. also, there should be some way around the cities, (sewer tunnels that will take you past the plaza 1 safezone into via 1 and 2) so that you dont have to just run and stealth past all of the current guards
Apart from the simple 'yes' answer to the thread title, I don't think there's much to say on the matter. We all know and repeatedly say there's too many guards, it's a question of Reakktor wanting to do something about it. I too personally feel that all areas minus faction HQ's and main areas such as Plaza 1 or the Dome CityCenter shouldn't be heavily guarded by NPC's, it should be left to the players to defend them.
It seems pointless to have a red vs blue war going on where you can somewhat raid one city, and not the other. This has been another one of those fun things that could have been brought into the game, but has generally not been possible due to the amount of guards. At least Parashock being nerfed is a great step towards resolving the problem, but as mentioned, there's still too many guards.
The only safe sectors should be TechHaven, and optionally the faction HQ's at the most. The main sectors like Plaza 1, DoY CityCenter, MB sector 1, should instead remain very heavily guarded by NPC's, but most of the other sectors should be the opposite of that. It was always fun to kill the enemies Spies that would hang around in Plaza 1. People should begin to say "fair play" when they get owned, and stop being so carebear, instead of collecting a zillion PPU buttpluggs in order to retaliate.
Edit: A few steps back towards Neocron 1 from what we have now would make the game a lot more fun and interesting. Intermixed faction relations to reflect both the storyline (TT and BT enemies to one another, etc) and all the ally killing that currently goes on. Less guards and more sense of "an enemy could be over there, stay alert". I rarely get any sense of danger when playing Neocron like I used to. The only sense of danger I ever get now is when I see a Grim Persecutor in the distance. Instagibs are bad. :(
Edit: A few steps back towards Neocron 1 from what we have now would make the game a lot more fun and interesting. Intermixed faction relations to reflect both the storyline (TT and BT enemies to one another, etc) and all the ally killing that currently goes on.
i also think that separate faction politics might make the game a little more interesting. right now its DOY vs. NC again and again, i think that there should be more separate faction alliances and disputes, like mentioned, BT and TT. also why are the City Mercs the only neutral faction? as a result of that, you just see alot of anti vs. pro stuff, but really i think some diversity should be allowed without getting fucked by the SL losses :(
That's the main problem, SoulLight. With the lower PvPing population most people haven't cared about faction relations for a long time. They prefer to shoot whoever they like, lose all their SL killing allies, or even enemies in hunting sectors, and then regain it afterwards in the way I'm about to describe.
As a mostly solo player nowadays, I watch the NCPD regularly to get a hint as to where the action is. In the middle of last week I see Spiro on -40 SL at Industrial 2. I check the NCPD list a few seconds later, and he was on -20 SL. Less than 5 minutes later when I check again, Spiro is no longer on the NCPD most wanted list, so I check the runners list and sure enough, Spiro is back to 100 SL. I quite doubt he made the entire 28 legitimate PvP kills to go from -40 SL to 100 SL in that time. Cmastar was one kill from what he said at the time, but the other 27?
I then ran to Industrial 2 not long after, and there were a series of belts and dogtags on the floor at the GR. The belts were of Lallala, Kill Me Please, and something else. Can't exactly remember the names but it's pretty clear one of those characters is an SL exploiting character they use to regain their SL.
The other day in TechHaven when I was transferring a PE Rifle PA3 from Unrael to my PE in order to buy a PE Rifle WoC PA, the box I chose to dump the PA in was almost full of dogtags (at least 20 that is) of the same high level person. They might be still there in fact, though I can't login to check. I wouldn't have thought the runner would have just died 20 times in one day, as it's unlikely anyone would keep so many dogtags of the same person for any long length of time.
It happens all too often. That's why I get quite pissed off when an ally attempts to kill me. I can't do nothing in return without being shafted for it in the long term, while they just cheat to regain it. They have team mates with them 24/7 who also just pick their belts up when they die (http://forum.neocron.com/showpost.php?p=2074749&postcount=42), which is another thing I disapprove of and mention fairly often. If I don't end up on negative SL after killing one of them, they still get left with an easy 0 SL belt to hack and then loot if half my brain implants end up popping out and I can't return fast enough.
At least that's one bonus about 2.2 Spies in that respect. You usually have an excess of TC so you can use Stealth II out of the GR, or just use Stealth with a larger amount of SI thanks to Redflash.
i also think that separate faction politics might make the game a little more interesting.
It would for sure. The whole NC vs DOY thing has hurt server politics more then anything else. I think there should at least be 3 or 4 sides.
One of the ideas I was thinking was BD and TSU make some kind of alliance to try to take Pepper Park back and just run that. FA and TG could also easily become their own side. They could also make one of the anti city and city factions join up and split off together.
The whole red vs blue thing really hurts a game that could have deep complex faction relations.
That's the main problem, SoulLight. With the lower PvPing population most people haven't cared about faction relations for a long time. They prefer to shoot whoever they like, lose all their SL killing allies, or even enemies in hunting sectors,
It would seem that in a PVP oriented game they would reduce the SL losses from killing an allied player, because its no fun to limit your kills to players who are from enemy factions. while it is fun to do that as well, that shouldnt be your only option, or at least make more faction politics than there are currently
Mighty Max
16-04-07, 09:36
It would seem that in a PVP oriented game they would reduce the SL losses from killing an allied player, because
... this is a cyberpunkt and not a game in an anarchy style.
Faction vs faction should be the way to go and not lil rampage runners vs traders.
It would seem that in a PVP oriented game they would reduce the SL losses from killing an allied player, because its no fun to limit your kills to players who are from enemy factions. while it is fun to do that as well, that shouldnt be your only option, or at least make more faction politics than there are currently
If they ever rework the SL and sympathy system so it will actually work, they can lower penalties for pking allies. But only if factions can vote and kick people and faction guards shoot people with low symp on sight.
It's a bad world with pvp not gankers paradise with no penalties at all.
I think this would be a good idea;
Lowering the guards to warbot strength, giving them a 200-600 second respawn time, then;
NEOCRON---
Viarossa Zones - Heavily Defended (Extremely hard to raid) 8-12 guards per sector.
Plaza Zones - Moderately Defended (Averagely Difficult) 4-6 guards per sector
Pepper Park Zones - Lightly Defended (Easy to raid) 2/3 Guards per sector
YORK---
Abandond Sectors - Lightly Defended (Easy to raid) 2/3 Guards per sector.
Faction Sectors - Moderately Defended (Averagely Difficult) 4-6 guards per sector
City Center - Heavily Defended (Extremely hard to raid) 8-12 guards per sector.
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That is my simple idea, the complex one involves having elite swat unit spawning after a set time to flush out the raiders.
None of you seem to realise, or possibly don't want to understand, the current goings on in-game. These "ally gankers" in fact have no penalties because they cheat/exploit their SL back up using an 0/2 newbie character in sectors such as Industrial 2 before they log off. If they do die with a neg SL belt, their friend will usually pick it up instantly as well.
We who try to defend ourselves from such people get completely shafted, while they lose nothing, because at the end of the day we aren't breaking the Rules of Conduct to regain hundreds of SL. Instead of just saying "oh no, we can't have it like that, it would be like counter-strike" (I think that's what Nidhogg said somewhere), until this activity can be stopped without banning everyone, the system needs to be changed to make things fair.
How about GM's actually watch the NCPD most wanted list as I always do, for people doing this? (If they login that is.) GM's would be able to make those runners factionless and therefore they can't continue exploiting until they pay 300k to rejoin a faction, and would be forced to deal with their actions. Of course that's if factionless is still neutral to all, can't remember.
I was about to suggest a larger prison safezone sector near the NCPD where naughty people could be moved (with no exit) for a certain amount of time, but that would probably require a robot to track the amount of time runners have been in there, and possibly to automatically warp them out. Oh the interesting things that can be done... :p
Mighty Max
16-04-07, 10:24
Unreal, then you are making a point against the change of the settings right now, as designing the world around a weakness in game mechanic would be one of the worst ideas ever.
I never said anything about rewriting the system to be permanently based on the short-term change that I'm clearly talking about. Save your assumptions for somewhere else. The fact of the matter is, it'll be a long time (if at all) that the underlying source behind the workings of the SL system will be modified or rewritten for the better. My posts simply talk about the need of making the simple setting-based changes to the current system until a more fair system is developed, or other related issues are resolved.
It's surprising that people want to save a system that doesn't exist to most people who currently play. "I have -80 SL, I'll just put everything expensive in my GoGuardian and grab a newbie weapon and an 0/2 runner over and over again in Industrial 2 until I'm back to 100 again". SL exploiting is happening on a rather large scale, and it's completely unfair on the people (such as myself) who make the decision to not do it.
Make every sector a WASTELANDS sector. Problem solved.
Negligible SL hit for killing friendlies and neutrals, but still - a penalty.
None of you seem to realise
Oh I am ever so sorry, omniscient one.
But I agree with you though about the SL system. Bad SL should be based on time, not actual SL. Values should only increase when killing enemies if it's over zero in my opinion.
William Antrim
16-04-07, 22:10
I think this would be a good idea;
Lowering the guards to warbot strength, giving them a 200-600 second respawn time, then;
NEOCRON---
Viarossa Zones - Heavily Defended (Extremely hard to raid) 8-12 guards per sector.
Plaza Zones - Moderately Defended (Averagely Difficult) 4-6 guards per sector
Pepper Park Zones - Lightly Defended (Easy to raid) 2/3 Guards per sector
YORK---
Abandond Sectors - Lightly Defended (Easy to raid) 2/3 Guards per sector.
Faction Sectors - Moderately Defended (Averagely Difficult) 4-6 guards per sector
City Center - Heavily Defended (Extremely hard to raid) 8-12 guards per sector.
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That is my simple idea, the complex one involves having elite swat unit spawning after a set time to flush out the raiders.
Quoted for truth, as for the sl thing, you guys should implement that thing you were flirting with waaaaay back in nc1. Remember just after all the tanks got nerfed.... yeah its a bit hazy I know as it was a long time ago. Oh wait I think I got it, yeah...... thats it baby.... CLAN WARS!
Kthxbai etc.
Please can we have this implemented (clan declared war on has to "accept" the war proposal to prevent grief play).
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