View Full Version : Solo leveling
Dribble Joy
06-04-07, 11:21
Yes, yet another PvE thread. Though this is about PvE, it mainly focuses around solo leveling at mid-high to high level. Though there are other issues with PvE (high level mobs near insta gibbing PPUs making many of them unkillable, cash rewards, loot, etc.) I'm focusing on one area that is very important to a lot of people.
The decision to make mobs over level 64 intended for team activities I can understand, it does seem daft that a single runner with a pistol can bimble up to a War Bot, an engine of destruction designed to combat hover tanks, and drop it before it kills you, and do so with ease.
However this poses a serious problem for those who are (for whatever reason) going it alone.
Not only is the experience, cash and loot gain from lvl 50-64 mobs terrible, but there just isn't many of them about in the same manner as WBs and fire mobs.
Huge swathes of the WL that were prime hunting ground are now useless to solo levelers. All of the area surrrounding MB and the canyons are now the preserve of team WL expeditions.
Two things need to be done really; Increase xp gain significantly, such that killing a lvl 60 is akin to killing a WB in 2.1 (around 50k on a PE). However to prevent the team xp gain from becoming even more powerful, xp gain for mobs over lvl 64 should increase very slowly.
The increase the amount of lvl 50-64 mobs in the WL substantially, perhaps remove some of the WBs and bring in either new mobs or alter the current ones. Like bigger launcher variants, do something with the aracnids or bigger spider bots.
Some people have neither the time or inclination to level soley in a team. Or often they just want a break from all the clannies, hanging about while a team gets sorted, they just want to pick up a gun, drive into the wastes and get away from it all wasting a few mobs.
Too many people, myself, people I know, people in clans, people unclanned, people with a lot of time ingame and casual players enjoy solo leveling, but the current means to do it is neither enjoyable nor viable.
Seraphin[69]
06-04-07, 13:32
Solo leveling is for :
HC tank
Rifle
Droner
Why ? Because you can kill without taking any damage. You just have to keep yourself out of range.
The other are painfull :
Apu
Pistol
Melee
Why ? Because the current mob strenght will make you powerless against them (even a melee tank speccing everything in fire resist + fire armor + max FCR resist will take damage @ 0.88 or so cap)
I agree 100% with Dribble.
I'm not likely to return after my free time until PvE is changed.
MUHAHAHAHAHAH! Vindication for sticking with Spy class on 13 of my 16 character slots!
I agree. It's retarded to make solo leveling to cap impossible given the dearth of players. Part of the fun of NC was that you could explore/level around 90-95% of the game solo.
This isn't WoW. This isn't EQ/EQII. It's not Star Wars. It's not E.V.E. Don't try to make it that way, KK!
I have a couple of clan members in this situation. They are not on when the rest of the clan is on, so they can't join in the team experience.
So naturally they go solo hunting or leveling. They still support the clan, by say bringing in techs, and the clan supports them by giving them the hottest weapons they can use.
Naturally they are very frustrated that they cannot solo hunt warbots anymore. One of my members is considering quiting over it, and I can understand his frustration and anger, as they feel they are not doing their bit for the clan and they are feeling useless, since his ability to use one of his character's main strength has been taken away by the PvE changes.
Now the clan is 100% behind him, and will support him as much as possible when we are on.
But you now have to look at the many solo players who do play this game, who do not have the backing of a clan, or a suitable team. These guys hunt say warbots to sell on, and do a great job supporting themselves, but with the way PvE is at the moment, I really do fear we are going to loose more people.
What needs to be done imho is make all the wasteland mobs possible to solo, like they was in 2.1, but keep the places like the chaos caves for teams like they are now. (Although some caves need adjusting, since they are still too strong for teams.)
In conclusion, PvE isn't balanced. (Althought PvP is nearly spot on, bare a few things, but this is a PvE topic.)
Yes, yet another PvE thread. Though this is about PvE, it mainly focuses around solo leveling at mid-high to high level. Though there are other issues with PvE (high level mobs near insta gibbing PPUs making many of them unkillable, cash rewards, loot, etc.) I'm focusing on one area that is very important to a lot of people.
The decision to make mobs over level 64 intended for team activities I can understand, it does seem daft that a single runner with a pistol can bimble up to a War Bot, an engine of destruction designed to combat hover tanks, and drop it before it kills you, and do so with ease.
However this poses a serious problem for those who are (for whatever reason) going it alone.
Not only is the experience, cash and loot gain from lvl 50-64 mobs terrible, but there just isn't many of them about in the same manner as WBs and fire mobs.
Huge swathes of the WL that were prime hunting ground are now useless to solo levelers. All of the area surrrounding MB and the canyons are now the preserve of team WL expeditions.
Two things need to be done really; Increase xp gain significantly, such that killing a lvl 60 is akin to killing a WB in 2.1 (around 50k on a PE). However to prevent the team xp gain from becoming even more powerful, xp gain for mobs over lvl 64 should increase very slowly.
The increase the amount of lvl 50-64 mobs in the WL substantially, perhaps remove some of the WBs and bring in either new mobs or alter the current ones. Like bigger launcher variants, do something with the aracnids or bigger spider bots.
Some people have neither the time or inclination to level soley in a team. Or often they just want a break from all the clannies, hanging about while a team gets sorted, they just want to pick up a gun, drive into the wastes and get away from it all wasting a few mobs.
Too many people, myself, people I know, people in clans, people unclanned, people with a lot of time ingame and casual players enjoy solo leveling, but the current means to do it is neither enjoyable nor viable.
your starting to whine more then me..
your starting to whine more then me..
Kane - put something more constructive in or just shut the fuck up.
Kane - put something more constructive in or just shut the fuck up.
well since this changed in 2.2 this thread if u ask me should be under the balance forum.
spam lock!
landofcake
06-04-07, 16:11
I totally agree.
This is why i'm not playing the game and will not be returning after the free 30 days.
I used to do alot of stuff solo, i'd go out with my rifle PE and kill Warbots for tech parts and so on, and that was how i made it in the game.
This is now as good as impossible. Thanks to the new implant changes i can barely use my Healing Light anymore, which is fair enough, but means i need a new gun.
I don't have much to trade so i have to go out and kill things for tech parts, which i pretty much can't do anymore.
For people like me, the current state of PvE is a game breaker.
i kill 64+ mobs solo with not too much problem. Downfall is xp sucks cash sucks spawn sucks and rediculas damage. i get about 8k for killing a doomie.. and less than 200k xp.
I think most things have really been said on the PvE situation, and are just being repeated and repeated until hopefully something is done, so I won't bother to continue the tradition. I'll just talk about one of the facts that Reakktor should pay attention to. Neocron isn't WoW. There aren't 8million+ subscribers where it's likely you can always find someone to level up or trade with. A large handful of things about 2.2 have been great, but there are also these handful of insanely rediculous decisions that appear to be lacking common sense. You need to tweak the server according to the obvious needs of our small community.
Like Dribble Joy I can agree that some things deserve to be very difficult so that teaming is a neccessity, but that would be fine if the overall population was large enough to support this decision. We already had these things in 2.1 (DoY tunnels, Chaos Caves being not so difficult on average, that cave with the Soul Clusters, Batqueen Caves, Ceres Labs, MC5). I personally would prefer if things were the way they were in 2.1, but perhaps with a tiny increase in difficulty. Good luck to any solo player levelling on high level mobs with the current settings, me included. Because of my high combat rank with rifles, killing most things that don't instantly gangbang me usually results in low or no reward. :rolleyes:
Naturally they are very frustrated that they cannot solo hunt warbots anymore. One of my members is considering quiting over itThat's not Miles by any chance is it? :( Tell him I'll help him kill a few warbots until there are some changes. :p
Asurmen Spec Op
06-04-07, 18:52
Kane - put something more constructive in or just shut the fuck up.
This post needs a medal of some kind
[21:21] [KK] John Doe: sk8rtlz: Is it possible to play alone succesfully?
Yes it is possible - we've putted a hidden barrier to our npcs. Skillranks of 64 and above should be content for groups. If you try to play alone you should try a spy and use his higher range weapons :-)
There you go! :(
ya it's really great pes are half assed supporters now. that's what everybody always wanted.
Dj speaks the truth.
Besides, with the current playerbase teaming up with a ppu is not exactly an easy thing to do right?
Solo pve is just terrible now, almost non-existant and close to impossible after 50/50 rank mobs (for melee, apus, pistols obviously), and while this is so, you could consider droners being buffed well over the top leaving them as THE best solo class, even better than groups in most places.
I found getting cash from PvE was only possible with a droner, this is not what its supposed to be right?
Doc Holliday
08-04-07, 13:35
It needs fixing some how pure and simple. i just wish for an official aknowledgement.
Hell if a poll went up saying reduce damage in pve or some such like the one for pvp i bet people would be all over it. this is the critical part of the game as without a way to make money you cant pvp for very long at all :(
I wonder why they removed polls on the forum to begin with :rolleyes:
I agree too. I've always been a solo leveler, and so have most people I play with. I've tried to do some farming to get parts and money, but the whole experience just left me feeling ripped off so I stopped.
This is a PVE problem but considering how expensive PVP can be this affects both. I've always solo hunted to gain the money back I lose in PVP, now uh I just lose money the end.
I am in agreement with what Dribble Joy, said and everyone else here, not going to add anything because it will just be repeating everyone. But I am a solo player too.
Like Speedball said a few day ago, NC did solo leveling possible... It's a (was!) good point for a mass multiplayer game and part of NC's eccentricities the community like. (understand, don't like the systematic farming in other MMO !).
Too many people, myself, people I know, people in clans, people unclanned, people with a lot of time ingame and casual players enjoy solo leveling, but the current means to do it is neither enjoyable nor viable.
Affirmative!
I think there will be a huge loss of playerbase come wednesday as one of the basic needs and mechanics of this game (which was/is touted repeatedly by the community liasons) i.e PvE and its now ease of tweaking is either being ignored or is thought to be 'working as intended'
Reakktor appears to have learned somewhat over the last couple of years, it took a long time for heads to come out the sand, but the pvp changes by large have been good, if not great - apart from introduction of bugs which were highlighted in the first phase of beta testing, but by large these will hopefully be fixed in future updates.
What Reakktor hasn't learned is how to priorise its work, and how to communicate its prioritisation to its playerbase, which is its lifeblood.
Weeks ago we told that PvE will be monitored, as would PvP. Of course it will be, its Reakktor's game and theyshould be monitoring it. If they aren't we may as well cancel any subscription now.
What we don't understand is why weeks later, when it comes to a critical point (i.e free time is up) for all returning players, why the prioritisation isn't on the following, but if it is - where's the communication?
I know we had a mall and I know we have a Pit, but I don't see any status on the critical issues that confound the game at present, which will likely see a large dent in your income?
I won't go into these in depth, as lets be fair, if you aren't aware - you aren't worth my money.
- PvE
- Drones
- Soullight/Faction (whilst this is debatable, a comment that its being looked into goes a long long way)
I do apologise that this perhaps may sound forceful and borderline 'rant' but what do you expect when your players appear to have passion but you do not?
I sincerely hope you don't communicate late, as its a lot harder to convince players to come back after they've left than before they have gone.
Regards
evs
Dribble Joy
09-04-07, 01:36
Like Speedball said a few day ago, NC did solo leveling possible... It's a (was!) good point for a mass multiplayer game and part of NC's eccentricities the community like. (understand, don't like the systematic farming in other MMO !).
The point is that the intended solo leveling is very possible, it's just pointless.
I agree with the general principle of the alteration of what solo players can handle, and people do need to learn that a WB is not meant to be something that they can tackle alone. But people won't see this as what they are being pushed towards is no better if not worse than before.
I now no longer get reward or junk from a launcher, yet this is a mob that's in the range of things I should be going after, and the xp is just not worth the effort.
Doc Holliday
09-04-07, 12:03
when the free trial is over and if pops plummet down to how they used to be for 2.1 its gonna be very hard to get a team to do anything. it could be a never ending spiral.
I like the idea of having teams for big quests ie the regant pa missions or mc5 runs etc but having to get a team of 2 or 3 to shoot a warbot is rediculous. (bear in mind it takes one to shoot the warbot and 2 others to shoot the fucking spiders to get rid of them) add to this the amount of time it takes to kill a cyclops or rank 50 mob for minimal gain and this is gonna make a very broke player base in a short amount of time. i played alot over this weekend trying to do all this levelling stuff and its cost me waaaaaaaaaay more than i made back due to gr costs ammo costs and general pissing around buying equipment not to mention what i lost when getting gr camped twice lol.
my first post said it all but if things dont get a little easier and therefore more accessible to get things done its gonna ruin this game. my bro is back (paying not free trial) and said hes not gonna stay after his paid month is up. thats one. i suspect more people would go oh well its been fun for a free month and move on. i hope not but it could happen.
Edit: @ Rob444. The comment about polls was intended as if Thanatos or someone put one up re the PVE situation like whats been done with the PVP one. Not some random spammer who wants to pump his post count.
My low/mid level spy is currently hunting launchers and if KK seriously expects capped (/near capped) players to be hunting mobs in this range then KK is going to have to up the rewards offered by the mobs by at least x10 if not more. The occasional level one strengthen heart just really isn't going to cut the fucking mustard.
My thoughts on the hunting issue, copypastaed from the main PvE thread in balancing.
From a theoretical standpoint, if combat rank means anything, then a runner and a mob of the exact same combat rank should be able to go toe to toe and drop dead at exactly the same time. This to me is a desirable target as it makes sense. Of course we have some significant peripheral questions about whether healing rate is involved or what have you.
However for this to actually work, then the penalty for killing NPCs at or below your own rank in terms of XP, cash and loot HAS to go. Seriously, if my PE is CR82 (as he is, and thats for a goddamn lowtecher) then I should be able to take on mobs higher than CR64, in fact CR82 should be quite managable.
So, given that we have set up a world where player CR and mob CR are equivilant and that its actually worth our time to kill an NPC of the same CR, we are making some progress. A player could either take on mobs a few (~5-10) CRs lower one by one while stood dead still, take on groups of much lower CR mobs while stood dead still, or use their intelligence and tactics to be able to take on equivilant and slightly higher (approx 10-15) CR higher mobs one on one. That sounds like a pretty happy situation to me.
Now a balanced team acts as a very effective force multiplier as we know, so said teams can burn through these mobs and take on substantail groups at similar CRs, or small numbers of much higher CR mobs. That is effectivley the basis of our current cave system.
But what we need is to support those who aren't teetering on the edge of cap, and those who are on their own. We need areas that proivde mid-level mobs for solo and low-level teams. We need PvE combat that encourages something approaching tactics and not just a simple matter of trying to outheal. In short, we need mid level "dungeons". Perhaps in the outlier zones of the city and such. Areas rammed with 50-75 mobs, preferably with availble cover to encourage sensible fighting and the ability to control the numbers you deal with at once. Sure, the wastes can provide these things too, but we need to encourage tactics and provide alternatives, as well as having places where 120/120s aren't likley to wander over.
As said by others, the idea of setting an arbitary limit on the mob rank that you can hunt solo is crazy, especialy as my lowtech PE would be told to "pick on somebody his own size" if he tried it.
William Antrim
09-04-07, 13:20
my first post said it all but if things dont get a little easier and therefore more accessible to get things done its gonna ruin this game. my bro is back (paying not free trial) and said hes not gonna stay after his paid month is up. thats one. i suspect more people would go oh well its been fun for a free month and move on. i hope not but it could happen.
Quoted for truth.
This is not going to turn into a whine post but I have tried the PvE in this game only once so far since 2.2. I love the idea of having to team up with other players and making the cave runs and the mc5s and stuff a bit harder for a good group. Imo the old chaos cave runs were a cake walk with 10 people. A modicum of difficulty would indeed make for more of a challenge but having spiderbots and copbots that can gang ******** you if you stand around for more than a few minutes is indeed silly. If we were to get some form of reward from killing them id say yeah fine no problem but it seems to me that you (kk) have seen the need to do something drastic to overhaul the game and while you have a stable product on the pvp side; i just think that the pve seems to have been a rough shod rush job.
Its almost like it was 11.30pm the day before 2.2 hit and someone in the KK office thought F it, lets just double the hp of the mobs and treble the damage they do and worry about it in the morning.
Microsoft do that to us, I was hoping KK wouldnt. I cant see myself staying after my month is up this month in honesty, at least not with 2 accounts. The thing i love the most about this game is the community. But hardly any of the people who made it fun for me are here any more. So i pvp a little and i have fun with that. I win some and i lose some but i like to vary my day in nc. A bit of pvp, a bit of pve.
I dont seem to be able to Pve too well any more and that saddens me. I'm not trying to hold a gun to anyones head in this game and say I want an update or im quitting but someone somewhere in the offices in Hannover or where ever you guys work from these days must see that as a community this player base is crying out for an update at least.
Bring on the next patch i say.
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