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Thanatos
27-03-07, 12:30
[IMPLANTS]
- Law Enforcer will no longer be damaged in use.
- Law Enforcer can be implanted independently from skill rank. This restriction is deactivated for one week.
- Implants now take considerably less damage when they are damaged in combat.
- Implants are damaged considerably less often in combat.


- Removed the range bonus damage for Raygun weapons because of PvP imbalances. They still are most efficient at close range and lose some strength at long range.
- Fixed a bug in the calculation of the construction skill that caused items to be constructed at higher quality than intended.
- Tweaked the combat rank calculation for PPU characters, they will now have a higher combat rank.

- All WOC weapons are now dropable - the appropriate missions are repeatable.
- Fixed the names of some ammo and ammo mods (i.e. Rayguns).

- Fixed a bug in the "Ol' Dirty Conster" script, he should now give you the correct Spy Rifle PA.
- Fixed a bug in the Fallen Angels Epic Run. The missing mission item (Vehicle Energypack - Hover Technology Only) is now available again.
- The "Grave" dungeon is a "Dungeon Sector" again.

J J
27-03-07, 12:34
[IMPLANTS]
- Implants now take considerably less damage when they are damaged in combat.
- Implants are damaged considerably less often in combat.



This mean in the head or when dropped? It better mean when dropped....

Brammers
27-03-07, 12:35
Any fix for self-cast PPU shields becoming foriegn cast sheilds on zoning bug?

CMaster
27-03-07, 12:37
So my hacknet software is still all milkey rens and wrong items?
So our implants still take double damage, once when you get shot then again when they fall out?
So the Regants run still gives pro cities the wrong text in their F8 window?

Still, nice to see that variouis bugs are fixed. And well, this:


- All WOC weapons are now dropable - the appropriate missions are repeatable.
is interesting.

solling
27-03-07, 12:38
means imps still get damaged even tho they in ur head just less and less often

SorkZmok
27-03-07, 12:49
I really like that woc guns can now drop into belts. With all the new woc guns out there this really was a good decision.

Still i dunno really, the runs are rather easy compared to getting all the techparts for a rare while those do less damage. o_O

IceStorm
27-03-07, 12:51
The guy who was building to 94% on TL 105 items with 240 CST is gonna be pissed. :-)

Dromidas
27-03-07, 12:56
The guy who was building to 94% on TL 105 items with 240 CST is gonna be pissed. :-)

No he's not, but rares that were csting to 120% won't happen anymore.

IceStorm
27-03-07, 12:57
We'll see. My 268 CSTer on test with capped INT/DEX was building TL81 to 93% base.

rob444
27-03-07, 13:01
What about melee range on mobs?

spikeownzu
27-03-07, 13:02
certainly not the fix patch i was lookin forward 2 :wtf:

Archtemplar
27-03-07, 13:12
Still didnt fix the damn Tangent Epic :mad:
or the mob HP :o

calim
27-03-07, 13:26
Thank you for patching,
I still don't understand why implants takes damage in combat ????

netster
27-03-07, 13:29
when i read those patchnotes ... i wonder myself sometimes, why i still play this game.

Tratos
27-03-07, 13:32
It's probably just to force some sort of cash sync, one of my pet annoyances was the fact people could literally use the same set of implants for YEARS without having to even bother getting some new ones, although i dont have first hand experience of this yet it seems better than before.

This may be one way of sorting out the ridiculous economy and bring down the price of various implants since they'll need to be replaced more often etc.

Not too sure but i sort of like this idea, atleast it's been toned down.

Tickles
27-03-07, 13:33
What a shit patch.... doesn't contain a fix for the ppu shields which IMO is very important. Doesn't contain Tangent epic fix yet it contains all the other epic fixes and to top it implants still take damage in combat?!!? Wtf? It took that long for that small amount of fixes too?

Also drones? Why are you keeping them so hard in particular the particle nemesis?

Nullvoid
27-03-07, 13:39
Are the low level piercing drones still bugged therefore making the class completely impossible to start out with (a wonderful first impression for anyone trying the game out I must say...)?

Didn't people get across just how much drones such as the PN currently mess up op fights?

Why are you so intent on making implants take damage while in the body? Don't we have enough money/time sinks as it is?

You gave rayguns a nerf but not one of the most overpowered weapon types (laser cannons)?

edit - ah yes ppu shields aswell, them dropping upon zoning is quite a big bug no...high priority even...

Tyler_Durdon
27-03-07, 14:15
You gave rayguns a nerf but not one of the most overpowered weapon types (laser cannons)?

If you remember dmg classes :

1. Apus
2. Tanks
...
And tanks still use cannons (laser), so where is the problem, why overpowered !? I think with the next patch, if they really would turn the cannon dmg down, some guys will start whining - "fIx the feckin Fire Apoc, its overpowered". "Make spys and pes to number one" !!


edit - ah yes ppu shields aswell, them dropping upon zoning is quite a big bug no...high priority even...

/agree



T

awkward silence
27-03-07, 14:23
I was a bit dissappointed.

I like the fact that imps take a little damage in combat... tbh they should, and the situation is much better now.

I would like to see PVM/E 8 re-balanced. Expected that to be fixed with this patch.

Thirdly i want weapons damaged according to TL.... is not so atm in many cases. Some weapons are still too shite (ie Judge) and some are still too strong (creed/winding argument) etc.

Also since things are easy to tweak... KILL THE INGAME EMAIL SPAM!

Panthoraxium
27-03-07, 14:27
TT Epic
WOC HC Launcher fix
Laser cannon (You aint seen the creed, its stupid)

Fix them

Toxen
27-03-07, 14:47
Biggest things missing
Buffs working over zone lines.
Team's in vhc's sharing xp.


WOC weapons repeatable... and droppable well their values just gone down the pan.

I have a real feeling that this isn't a complete patch but the completed parts of a bigger patch that have been released to deal with certain issues.

But hey least I can go try for a better slotted golden gun/other various woc weapons.

Nullvoid
27-03-07, 14:51
If you remember dmg classes :

1. Apus
2. Tanks
...
And tanks still use cannons (laser), so where is the problem, why overpowered !? I think with the next patch, if they really would turn the cannon dmg down, some guys will start whining - "fIx the feckin Fire Apoc, its overpowered". "Make spys and pes to number one" !!


I'm not just talking about laser cannons being overpowered overall (which they are) but also when we compare them to other heavy class weapons. At equivalent TLs, the laser cannons are always more powerful than the plasma cannons/waves, freezer cannons, gatlin cannons etc. And the creed is just away out there on its own. Yes it is the highest tl non-aoe heavy weapon, but the gulf between it and other weapons shouldn't be so big. It's gonna get to a point where if you don't have a creed you simply won't be able to compete and I don't know about anyone else, but to me that is a bad thing (variety is the spice of life and all that).

Toxen
27-03-07, 15:00
I'm not just talking about laser cannons being overpowered overall (which they are) but also when we compare them to other heavy class weapons. At equivalent TLs, the laser cannons are always more powerful than the plasma cannons/waves, freezer cannons, gatlin cannons etc. And the creed is just away out there on its own. Yes it is the highest tl non-aoe heavy weapon, but the gulf between it and other weapons shouldn't be so big. It's gonna get to a point where if you don't have a creed you simply won't be able to compete and I don't know about anyone else, but to me that is a bad thing (variety is the spice of life and all that).

Tell you want is overpowered, friggen ionic shotgun cannon's soon as they come out op fights don't last that long

kurai
27-03-07, 15:00
Good patch.

Rather than moan about whatever outstanding issue that is closest to my heart I shall just say ... "Keep the patches coming !"

;)

Toxen
27-03-07, 15:01
Oh and wheres my droner PA already, if you can make pistol and rifle PA's for tanks its about time we get droner PA's.

calim
27-03-07, 15:12
I like the fact that imps take a little damage in combat... tbh they should, and the situation is much better now.


Why implants would take damage while they are in your head ? I can understand it takes damage when you die, even if it doesn't pop out ! But if you don't die, implants are still well poked securely in the brain, fueled by fresh blood ...

Brammers
27-03-07, 15:20
Bugfix patches are good, but to be honest I was expecting a bit more in the way of fixes.

Perhaps KK could help us all, by publishing a list of the outstanding issues, and their priorities. At least we all know what you are working on, and it will keep the moans and complaints down on the forums.

A few words here and there go a long way to some more happy faces around here, where silence will generate more angry faces. ;)

jini
27-03-07, 15:49
I am still fighting on my thread about resists lol:p and only now I have seen that new patch

Ok nice patch, but wtf why dont you nerf drones???111

kane
27-03-07, 15:55
Nice glad ur not taking out lom pills yet. So much work still needing to be done and tested in that area for not only the players test builds but devs working on some imperfections.

Dribble Joy
27-03-07, 16:08
[IMPLANTS]
- Implants now take considerably less damage when they are damaged in combat.
- Implants are damaged considerably less often in combat.
Still not happy about this 'feature' remaining in whatever form.

I'll do another cave run tonight and see what happens, if it's anything like the 30-50% I lost on all my imps last night in a chaos cave then... I dunno, I'll have to go back to shooting WBs and doomies solo or simply not play untill it's fixed.


If you remember dmg classes :

1. Apus
2. Tanks

Tanks have more armour than anyone. They have more resists than anyone. With PPU shields they have the highest defences by far. Yet they do equal or more dmg than an APU. Tank'o'cron is back.

Voodoo_Magic
27-03-07, 16:11
Implants breaking will not drop their price but increase it, especially new implants. Implants breaking increases demand and reduces supply from people who are finished with a weapon. The NEW WoC missions were always repeatable. People should stop whining about WoC weapons doing more damage please, a 80 dex weapon should do less than 100 dex and an over cap dex weapon should do more than a 100 dex weapon simple logic. Glad about all the fixes, though agreed a few more are necessary fairly soon, and also a few balancing issues need fixing. Oh and to the guy that mentioned mob HP its not a bug stop calling it that, stop whining, and get used to fact PVM is harder and money isnt handed to you on a finely prepared platter. Was some more things to say but fell asleep whilst typing, rest to come later.

Voodoo

awkward silence
27-03-07, 16:24
Why implants would take damage while they are in your head ? I can understand it takes damage when you die, even if it doesn't pop out ! But if you don't die, implants are still well poked securely in the brain, fueled by fresh blood ...

Because you get shot silly with plasma and stuff. It makes sense that while your health goes down, your body gets such a beating your brain goes cocoo. And... head damage! ;)

Also for example real life heart implants etc are very vulnerable to bloodpressure changes.

Now the thing is... even in the future i doubt people have invented implants that last forever, with people that get shot up their arse daily. Live or not.

Think of it as you being half-fucked-up-with-half-health instead of fully-alive-with-half-health.

Braywurst
27-03-07, 16:28
Something need to seriously be done with the Creed. The Damage that weapon does is retarded. Just wait until enough creeds have been built and thats all anybody is going to use, its going to kill pvp in general. APU's are pointless and non existant now. PPU shields upon zoning is a huge imbalance atm and Drones especially the Particle Nemesis...

Dribble Joy
27-03-07, 16:30
This is another question of Balance vs Gameplay vs Realism.

While realism clears states though in all probability implants should be damaged when the player is hurt, as I see it the other two say that they shouldn't.

Imps allready get damaged when you die, the less you die (which is down to your performance) the less they get damaged. It probably won't hurt the casual players much, but anyone who PvPs a lot and does a lot of hunting just can't afford new imps.

If stats are ever affected by quality the situation will be even worse.

awkward silence
27-03-07, 16:33
Implants breaking will not drop their price but increase it, especially new implants. Implants breaking increases demand and reduces supply from people who are finished with a weapon. The NEW WoC missions were always repeatable. People should stop whining about WoC weapons doing more damage please, a 80 dex weapon should do less than 100 dex and an over cap dex weapon should do more than a 100 dex weapon simple logic. Glad about all the fixes, though agreed a few more are necessary fairly soon, and also a few balancing issues need fixing. Oh and to the guy that mentioned mob HP its not a bug stop calling it that, stop whining, and get used to fact PVM is harder and money isnt handed to you on a finely prepared platter. Was some more things to say but fell asleep whilst typing, rest to come later.

Voodoo

The thing is... you make WOC weapons better than regular rares (which are harder to get btw), you make WOC a PVP nessesity. Some of us actually have work, college, hobbies etc along with neocrack. I want to PVP without WOC since i (for example) dont have the time to get it.

If you want WOC people to have a nicer looking PA its ok. If they have less penalties or more bonuses it's not. Same with WOC weapons.

I mean i PVM/E 60% of the time and PVP about the rest. I simply dont have time for WOC but want to be able to compete along.

I dont want NC to be a grind which it seem to be. If id want a grind id go to WOW or whatever-spaceship-game-with-corps.

Dribble Joy
27-03-07, 16:38
There's also the issue of people who want to use non-WoC weapons. Part of the balancing project was to allow people to use a wide variety of weapons without being at a disadvantage. As it stands that isn't the case.

I'll be using my judge regardless. If anything being the underdog is more fun, in NC1/2/2.1 I rarely healed, recast shields or used a DB in a fight, so when I won it gave me a better sense of achivement, same thing will happen here (though I would preffer for the sake of the wider balance picture that the WoC weapons are just the same as the other weapons).

Dogface
27-03-07, 16:45
If I've got more aim I don't want someone to beat me because they're using a WoC weapon. Simple as that really.

awkward silence
27-03-07, 16:50
This is another question of Balance vs Gameplay vs Realism.

While realism clears states though in all probability implants should be damaged when the player is hurt, as I see it the other two say that they shouldn't.

Imps allready get damaged when you die, the less you die (which is down to your performance) the less they get damaged. It probably won't hurt the casual players much, but anyone who PvPs a lot and does a lot of hunting just can't afford new imps.

If stats are ever affected by quality the situation will be even worse.

I agree....maybe.

The damage... as ive understood it was drastically redused.

Seriously...imp shouldnt last forever as they did. Your weapon gets used, your imps get used. Later at some point you will have to replace them.

I mean how many 0/0 MC5's have you seen since the start of NC1? NONE!
... five years. I mean ive bought 2 new comps since and i havent repped but one mc5 chip once. And they've dropped plenty of times.

It's like if you get a "softie" (0/120). Now you can pop a viagra (repair/imp lube), but eventually you will run out of those. Now while doing this you get older and your "hardies" get shorter and a viagra wont help much anymore (0/0).

Got it? Everything works that way! :angel:

Again, the point is... untill 2.2 imps lasted forever... or until you gave one away drunk etc.

awkward silence
27-03-07, 16:52
If I've got more aim I don't want someone to beat me because they're using a WoC weapon. Simple as that really.

Thats what im trying to say... WOC should NOT have an advantage over non-WOC

Dribble Joy
27-03-07, 16:53
I'm currently reserving my final judgement on this untill I see how much I loose.

zii
27-03-07, 16:56
- Implants now take considerably less damage when they are damaged in combat.
- Implants are damaged considerably less often in combat.

Why on earth did you [kk] decide to do this? Just make us work harder, if real life wasn't hard enough. I am pleased that the summer is coming...

CritiNator
27-03-07, 17:13
Thats what im trying to say... WOC should NOT have an advantage over non-WOC
Hahaha, thats ridiculous. So if runner uses lots of time to exp his char and uses huge amounts of time/money to get woc chip, he should NOT have ANYKIND of advantage? Thats ridiculous.
Its not good, that hardcore gamers get better weapons, but they should get somekind of price for theyr commitment for game. Woc needs to be something, that is good, but not something that is required. Nerf down bit the weps and its ok.

Patch looks nice. Thou, that cst bug, that caused all artis to be 120, sucked and should have been fixed right after it was discovered. Economy is flooded with all arti weps now. It really makes difference. Im sure that most clans used this opportunity and finally builded all parts they had. Its sad, that it took this long to fix that..

Dogface
27-03-07, 17:17
Different softcaps on WoC weapons compared to a non-WoC of the same TL? Think this one through will you DJ, I'm not sure if it's a good or bad idea :p

Okran
27-03-07, 17:25
[IMPLANTS]
- Implants now take considerably less damage when they are damaged in combat.
- Implants are damaged considerably less often in combat.


So this IS intentional now then is it? I thought it was a 'bug'...
So can someone please point me to the place where this was discussed? I seem to have missed the thread where we were asked if we wanted this!!

I'm really NOT going to enjoy this, not only will my precious MC5 cpu get damaged when it pops out but it will ALSO get damaged now if it stays in...

... put it back to the way it was, PLEASE!!

Praetorian
27-03-07, 17:39
[IMPLANTS]
- Implants now take considerably less damage when they are damaged in combat.
- Implants are damaged considerably less often in combat.

:rolleyes:

Need to see this before i comment further, but losing 10% on my DS fighting fire mobs for 30 minutes prepatch was unacceptable. I don't know about the number of points we should lose, it seems fair enough that technology (as in the real world) does not remain functioning indefinatly when activated. I would say the same % chance as a woc disc dropping sounds about right ;)

And to be honest, I wonder why it took them this long to patch it with what seems to be fixes that could have been coded in half a work day... :wtf:

KK being silent as the grave about what they are working on patchwise isnt helping either...

awkward silence
27-03-07, 18:17
Hahaha, thats ridiculous. So if runner uses lots of time to exp his char and uses huge amounts of time/money to get woc chip, he should NOT have ANYKIND of advantage? Thats ridiculous.
Its not good, that hardcore gamers get better weapons, but they should get somekind of price for theyr commitment for game. Woc needs to be something, that is good, but not something that is required. Nerf down bit the weps and its ok.

Patch looks nice. Thou, that cst bug, that caused all artis to be 120, sucked and should have been fixed right after it was discovered. Economy is flooded with all arti weps now. It really makes difference. Im sure that most clans used this opportunity and finally builded all parts they had. Its sad, that it took this long to fix that..

WOC people get more variety... they shouldnt do more damage than non-WOC but equal. Now this isnt the case.

Dogface
27-03-07, 18:32
Exactly. WoC users get nice new PA, they get SEVEN different weapons to choose from, they get more content than anyone else and now they get a larger damage bonus than anyone else. Also, their weapons are at an easier TL than the best weapons and these 'best weapons' don't do near the same damage.

SnowCrash
27-03-07, 18:37
:rolleyes:
... And to be honest, I wonder why it took them this long to patch it with what seems to be fixes that could have been coded in half a work day... o_O
No offense but you are definately not in the position to evaluate how much work effort a bug fix needs as you do not have any insight into the code and its complexity. The development team carefully evaluates which bugs have the highest priority and can be fixed in short time and so proceeds with the patch creation.



KK being silent as the grave about what they are working on patchwise isnt helping either...We have explained in several threads, for instance in the statement by Dirk "John Doe" Wilhelmy, which bugs we currently see as highest priority. You can always keep yourself upto date about statements made by the community and the development team with the Dev-Tracker (http://forum.neocron.com/forumdisplay.php?f=176) which you can find in the tool bar of this forum.

Ivan Eres
27-03-07, 18:52
Good work, keep it up!

Dogface
27-03-07, 19:07
[IMPLANTS]- Tweaked the combat rank calculation for PPU characters, they will now have a higher combat rank.

Sure? My rank is still at 58/ and no spell in my QB increases it. Not shelter, not TSS, not a holy rez - nothing..

Praetorian
27-03-07, 19:30
No offense but you are definately not in the position to evaluate how much work effort a bug fix needs as you do not have any insight into the code and its complexity. The development team carefully evaluates which bugs have the highest priority and can be fixed in short time and so proceeds with the patch creation.

We have explained in several threads, for instance in the statement by Dirk "John Doe" Wilhelmy, which bugs we currently see as highest priority. You can always keep yourself upto date about statements made by the community and the development team with the Dev-Tracker (http://forum.neocron.com/forumdisplay.php?f=176) which you can find in the tool bar of this forum.

Ok i will pretend i have absolutely no coding experience, and lets look at what you guys fixed this patch and my total noob comment on what i think you had to do... Please correct me where i am wrong...

[IMPLANTS]
- Law Enforcer will no longer be damaged in use. Changing value in item database?
- Law Enforcer can be implanted independently from skill rank. This restriction is deactivated for one week. Changing value in item database?
- Implants now take considerably less damage when they are damaged in combat. Tweaking formula on the chance of an implant taking damage when recieving damage?
- Implants are damaged considerably less often in combat. Tweaking formula on the chance of an implant taking damage when recieving damage?


- Removed the range bonus damage for Raygun weapons because of PvP imbalances. They still are most efficient at close range and lose some strength at long range. Making it work like it did in the past?
- Fixed a bug in the calculation of the construction skill that caused items to be constructed at higher quality than intended. Tweaking formula on how stats are calculated when constructing, unless it was a real bug that took effort to track down
- Tweaked the combat rank calculation for PPU characters, they will now have a higher combat rank. Tweaking/inventing new formula?


- All WOC weapons are now dropable - the appropriate missions are repeatable. Changing value in item/mission database?
- Fixed the names of some ammo and ammo mods (i.e. Rayguns). Changing value/name in item database?


- Fixed a bug in the "Ol' Dirty Conster" script, he should now give you the correct Spy Rifle PA. Changing value in database?

- Fixed a bug in the Fallen Angels Epic Run. The missing mission item (Vehicle Energypack - Hover Technology Only) is now available again. Changing value in mission database?

- The "Grave" dungeon is a "Dungeon Sector" again. Changing value in sector database?

I have full understanding that its very easy for me to claim that it took no work to make this patch - and if im wrong, i apologise. But look at my comments, and tell me im far off the target?

As for the being silent as the grave, well what you link to is not what im talking about. Im talking about you writing a post with the bugs you have been made aware of (unless its exploits etc) and what you intend to do with it, much like you have done in the past (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=136952). It might make people lay off with the criticising if they saw it was being taken care of. :)

Tickles
27-03-07, 19:32
Das Problem bezieht sich nicht alleinig auf die BioTech Employees und ist von tiefgehenderer Natur. Ansonsten hätten wir das Problem mit Sicherheit schon in diesem Patch behoben.

Can we have a translation of this please because it sounds like it concerns the TT epic problem.

You guys jst give us a single npc to kill for this plz? You have a TG and FA one in OZ4 which don't give SL or Faction symp, yet do register for their respective epic kills.

SnowCrash
27-03-07, 19:46
Can we have a translation of this please because it sounds like it concerns the TT epic problem.

You guys jst give us a single npc to kill for this plz? You have a TG and FA one in OZ4 which don't give SL or Faction symp, yet do register for their respective epic kills.

Of course, sorry. The problem with the invincibility of the BioTech NPCs is not just related to this single NPC group. It's a general NPC problem which takes more time to fix. Otherwise we would have already addressed it in the current patch.

Speedball
27-03-07, 20:03
If I've got more aim I don't want someone to beat me because they're using a WoC weapon. Simple as that really.

That's the whole point in it.
NEOCRON SHOULD NOT BE COMPARABLE TO WOW

calim
27-03-07, 20:10
So this IS intentional now then is it? I thought it was a 'bug'...
So can someone please point me to the place where this was discussed? I seem to have missed the thread where we were asked if we wanted this!!

I'm really NOT going to enjoy this, not only will my precious MC5 cpu get damaged when it pops out but it will ALSO get damaged now if it stays in...

... put it back to the way it was, PLEASE!! Yes please explain... I thought it was a "bug" too... I remember we spoke about item condition, etc, but i do not remember a decision has been took about it. With more thinking, i can find this mecanism coherent BUT at least, maybe, make the possibility to repair MC5 implants at full condition ? Or make it easier to get / to hunt, i don't know.

cl0wn
27-03-07, 20:14
And when will the rhino xp be fixxed? i asked several gm's about it "this is a known bug it will be FIXED NEXT PATCH yet 2 patches and no fix... Also server lag is now taking the piss aswell 5 sync outs in the space of 5 mins...

Eternal Pink
27-03-07, 20:17
Because you get shot silly with plasma and stuff. It makes sense that while your health goes down, your body gets such a beating your brain goes cocoo. And... head damage! ;)

Also for example real life heart implants etc are very vulnerable to bloodpressure changes.

Now the thing is... even in the future i doubt people have invented implants that last forever, with people that get shot up their arse daily. Live or not.

Think of it as you being half-fucked-up-with-half-health instead of fully-alive-with-half-health.

That makes no sense, if i've a shot to the head serious enough to damage some metal circuity in my brain ( brain matter is considerably less strong than metal ) then i'd be dead/should be dead.

I dont think anybody has a problem with imps taking damage when you die ( If someones just blown a big hole in you, then stuffs gonna get damaged), its the fact that they take damage while your still alive which makes no sense from a economic, pvp, role play or any other kind of sense i can think of.

As someone with 3 capped chars and all the equipment i needed, money wasn't that important to me, so i'd help people out either with making them stuff for free or giving them cash to get started which i now am not gonna do since i'll be hoarding it away for when my MC5's break and i have to replace them.

eprodigy
27-03-07, 20:19
woc is annoying me, i seem to remember at the start of nc2 everyone said; just make sure it isnt a requirement for pvp, dont make it just part of everyones grind. it should be a bonus, but why bother with rares when woc weapons are so easy to get, and are superior. they need to be equal to their rare TL equivalent; i just dont think they are right now.

im glad the construct quality was fixed. i was annoyed that i have cabs full of rares and everyone only wanted "2.2 build rares". still a bit annoying that all these arti rares are out there now, when i had to spend forever hunting down high slotted ones to nearly reach those stats.

this patch should have been one day after patch 160. if tweaking 3 formulas takes you a week then sorry; neocron really is hopeless.

calim
27-03-07, 20:26
That makes no sense, if i've a shot to the head serious enough to damage some metal circuity in my brain ( brain matter is considerably less strong than metal ) then i'd be dead/should be dead. With what awkward said, i can understand that a implant can be damaged while a fight: just imagine your implant is not only electronic but organic too (that's a very close future!). The background need to be adjusted consequently. If implants had always been though "eletronic+organic" in the NC history, why not ? So, you'll ask, why don't they implemented implants loss condition before ? :D To solve this they just have to change the names, that's a bit what they did with some new implant :/

Mighty Max
27-03-07, 20:27
...

/me is speechless.

Many of your "Changing Value in Database" things are nowhere near to something that is practically be doable via databases. Holding scriptparts in a database i.e. is stupid and undermines a basic of a scripting engine: dynamic. (A DB in itself is not TM-complete)

For those that are surely to reside in a database, the code that checks for the data has to be changed as well. If there needs to be a field for "does take not take damage when weared" in the implant database, then there has to be the code that also applies this rule in the actual game.

Furthermore is the tweaking formular or value in a database not just the trivial task of entering it into the system. In the cases you described it is vital to determinate the way formulars should be changed (what needs to be changed, how much does it need to be changed, which values are influenced by this, does the changed formular match the general requirements etc)

It starts with the communication between the QA and design team, moves over to the coding, comes back to the QA (rinse & repeat) and finally goes gold.

Not to mention that the correctness of a formular/codechange is not computeable (tho there are guidelines that makes this check at leats partitially possible) if you wish you wish to learn something about the reasoning behind that i recomment reading up on the termination problem and the theorem from Rice.

For everyone else: excuse my offtopic ... im just goingAAARG on pseudo pros (im none myself (yet), but am able to tell if i see one acting)

===

I can agree to some bugs should have been fixed too. But i guess im also guilty for this ... spammed some reports in *g*

Praetorian
27-03-07, 21:09
/me is speechless.
So am i :wtf:


Many of your "Changing Value in Database" things are nowhere near to something that is practically be doable via databases. Holding scriptparts in a database i.e. is stupid and undermines a basic of a scripting engine: dynamic. (A DB in itself is not TM-complete)
I have no comment.


For those that are surely to reside in a database, the code that checks for the data has to be changed as well. If there needs to be a field for "does take not take damage when weared" in the implant database, then there has to be the code that also applies this rule in the actual game.
Do you want to tell me that changing the code to check for an additional value would take alot of time? As for the rule... It was already there before they messed with it. Tell me that they cant reinsert that piece of code in a convincing way please.


Furthermore is the tweaking formular or value in a database not just the trivial task of entering it into the system. In the cases you described it is vital to determinate the way formulars should be changed (what needs to be changed, how much does it need to be changed, which values are influenced by this, does the changed formular match the general requirements etc)
I agree, but creating/tweaking a formula (based on how the engine has worked the last 1000 years) and using your pocket calculator does come into mind. But yes, it could of course take weeks to tweak a formula.


It starts with the communication between the QA and design team, moves over to the coding, comes back to the QA (rinse & repeat) and finally goes gold.
Ok so i have this impression of KK not being in seperate buildings, but rather being a tightknit group of people that knows each other well - and maybe even covering both the above positions individually. But point taken, this could take some time. (How these bugs/issues popped up in the first place with a QA team is another question i guess)


Not to mention that the correctness of a formular/codechange is not computeable (tho there are guidelines that makes this check at leats partitially possible) if you wish you wish to learn something about the reasoning behind that i recomment reading up on the termination problem and the theorem from Rice.
:lol:


For everyone else: excuse my offtopic ... im just goingAAARG on pseudo pros (im none myself (yet), but am able to tell if i see one acting)
And i am sorry for going off topic too. I did not at any point say that i was a pro/pseudo pro or whatever you feel like calling me. I do know what you are however.

What i did, was questioning the actual bug fixes and the amount of time it took to release. Maybe that came off in a "i know better" kind of way. That was unintentional. Im of course happy to see bug fixes, but with such a major overhaul, I'd rather see some quick fixes than waiting weeks for one "big" (:rolleyes:) patch...

Anyway, for the sake of everyone, lets not go further down this road. :)

Dogface
27-03-07, 21:20
That's the whole point in it.
NEOCRON SHOULD NOT BE COMPARABLE TO WOW

Not really sure what side you're on here. Are you saying the whole point of WoC is to be able to kill someone even though you have less aim than them? So it's basically an easy-mode for less skilled players? :confused: Because this is exactly what it shouldn't be.

Then you say NC shouldn't be like WoW, where you have to grind to be effective in anything. Explain..

Speedball
27-03-07, 21:29
Not really sure what side you're on here. Are you saying the whole point of WoC is to be able to kill someone even though you have less aim than them? So it's basically an easy-mode for less skilled players? :confused: Because this is exactly what it shouldn't be.

Then you say NC shouldn't be like WoW, where you have to grind to be effective in anything. Explain..

I mean with WOC, people who got many RL time got far better weapons/templates/advantages than "normal" players. And where NC meets WoW it's when Weapons > "wathever the skill"

Just give people equal chances.... and let them ROXX with what they all got similar...
WOC is just the new HIGH TRENDY NEW SEXY THING (with black all-over, its soooooo darck, so rebell), but brings nothing concrete to pvp. Just lvling, lvling, lvling, lvling, lvling, lvling.... NOW THAT WE HAVE GOT WEAPONS + ARMORS CAN WE GET PEPER PARK BACK ? MAYBE MAKE OZ ATTRACTIV ? (Maybe i'm the only one half of the time in Oz running around and searching for targets OLOLlllzzzz)

Seraphin[69]
27-03-07, 21:43
So basically people that built their weapon during the bug periods are now in advantage...

RAWR...

Shame I had none to build ^^

Zheo
27-03-07, 22:00
[IMPLANTS]
- Law Enforcer will no longer be damaged in use.
- Law Enforcer can be implanted independently from skill rank. This restriction is deactivated for one week.
- Implants now take considerably less damage when they are damaged in combat.
- Implants are damaged considerably less often in combat.
ear Runner,



Thank you for your support request.
A ticket has been created to your request and has been put into the waiting queue.

Your mail will be processed as soon as possible. Please be patient.

If you have additional information or questions regarding this subject please reply to this mail or include the ticket number in your mail.

If applicable, please remember to include your account name, character name, server and any other information of relevance.

Regards,
Neocron Support Team
So that reply from helpdesk was a lie? Or did KK just not bother to tell them OR the players that implants will be damaged in combat AS WELL as when they pop out!? Talk about a double stitch up!


- Removed the range bonus damage for Raygun weapons because of PvP imbalances. They still are most efficient at close range and lose some strength at long range.

Only good part of this patch imo.


- Fixed a bug in the calculation of the construction skill that caused items to be constructed at higher quality than intended.

So now non rares are even more useless for noobs or are we talking about all artie rares here? Because that was good! Since it required more work to get a rare, and since a pvp weapon now needs GOOD stats and a ammo mod requiring a minimum of 4 slots now. 5 if you talk about sniper rifles.
- Tweaked the combat rank calculation for PPU characters, they will now have a higher combat rank.



- All WOC weapons are now dropable - the appropriate missions are repeatable.

You had to talk about WOC didn't you, well I was going to say "don't get me started," but since you have.... ONE HC WOC WEAPON? ONE MELEE WEAPON, three pistols and three rifles. no APU or PPU, no hacknet, no trader. Is it just ME!? Or is that slightly unbalanced? I THINK SO! Geeze man! Even the HC weapon is bloody useless since it aims at your toes while you point straight ahead! You implimented another pistol and two more rifles, but only one hc and nothing for any other class, that is the biggest stitch up in 2.2. Do us a favour, do not impliment one weapon at a time, do not impliment one CLASS at a time, do the whole bloody lot, i don't mine fifty new woc weapons coming in at once, what I mind is once class getting an advantage over another!


- Fixed the names of some ammo and ammo mods (i.e. Rayguns).

- Fixed a bug in the "Ol' Dirty Conster" script, he should now give you the correct Spy Rifle PA.
- Fixed a bug in the Fallen Angels Epic Run. The missing mission item (Vehicle Energypack - Hover Technology Only) is now available again.
- The "Grave" dungeon is a "Dungeon Sector" again.
[/QUOTE]
all very good, one of the few good points of this patch.

Dribble Joy
27-03-07, 22:08
Even the HC weapon is bloody useless since it aims at your toes while you point straight ahead!
It's AoE, use 1st person.

Vryce
27-03-07, 22:26
I'm curious, having looked thru the various threads (maybe I missed it): is the need for imp skill to put on a glove a bug, or a feature? I know it takes an implant slot, but its a tool, similar to armor or to any of the other tools we use.

btw, thanks for the patch. :D

Dogface
27-03-07, 22:38
It's neither, it's aparently a fix for an exploit. I've heard it didn't fix it though :confused:

Toxen
27-03-07, 22:40
It's AoE, use 1st person.
Its probably more the problem with the non full close on AOE weapons reticles currently.

Either way its a nice weapon just the problem with how WoC is been implemented at the moment is pushing balance more in favour of Spy's, and frankly the WoC weapons given to spys compared to the two tank class WoC weapons are far superior. The wocket launcher is nice, but a single shot clip.... don't think theres a single other weapon like that in the game, and the hurler king knuckles being the first person on terra along with cmaster to do the quest we both realized the stats were a joke putting it below existing rares.

While spys have been getting new high class high damage.... an automatic sniper rifle, xbow... etc

Mighty Max
27-03-07, 23:00
I'm curious, having looked thru the various threads (maybe I missed it): is the need for imp skill to put on a glove a bug, or a feature? I know it takes an implant slot, but its a tool, similar to armor or to any of the other tools we use.

It's a consistency issue i think. Beeing part of the implant system, it needs to be implanted. For the usability, a version with a TL0 exists (just like the LE) that can be implanted with zero implant skill.

It features tradeskills (Imp-Skill directly and RES/CST via the now not instantly switchable tradeskill gloves indirectly) which is a good thing.

So i'd specify it as a feature.

Toxen
27-03-07, 23:05
It's a consistency issue i think. Beeing part of the implant system, it needs to be implanted. For the usability, a version with a TL0 exists (just like the LE) that can be implanted with zero implant skill.

It features tradeskills (Imp-Skill directly and RES/CST via the now not instantly switchable tradeskill gloves indirectly) which is a good thing.

So i'd specify it as a feature.

Though your explanation is nice, its probably quite far from the truth, its more likely that need to imp being added specifically to the trade skill gloves (note novice crahn glove doesn't need imp) Was that tradeskill gloves were been abused as a non drug flash drug by certain classes to pop on PA's and such. Aswell as a well known exploit regarding combat rank fixing.

calim
27-03-07, 23:26
Was that tradeskill gloves were been abused as a non drug flash drug by certain classes to pop on PA's and such.

I'm not sure to understand : you said "abused" ? I don't think it's the good word because in 2.1 implants bonus/malus and PA requirements combined with gloves "specials" bonuses lead on the player to use them ! Now in 2.2 it work the way it has to be, that's all.

Safunte
27-03-07, 23:41
BULLSHIT

But on a more helpful note, I'm talking the same as every other person who has the extreme urge to rant about how utterly pathetic this all is. We get a free month and even the simplest of fixes dont happen when they dramatically alter gameplay. We dont give a shit about our ppus having low combat ranks when it drops to 0 every 10 seconds anyway, we dont care about implants taking damage less often, we said never unless they fell out. We dont care about rebalancing one set of guns that has been messed up since the test server and shouldn't have hit retail when, 2 or 3 more groups of guns on retail became part of the NEW SET OF BALANCING so that there wouldn't have to be anymore tweaks... but still ended up overpowered.
We dont give a damn about a regant pa that 9 or 10 people are going to get when everyones out there dying when zoning up at op wars because their shields dont work.
We could care less about all 120 stats on rares being fixed now that there are hundreds of them out there like that already because it took to long to be fixed.
We dont like it when our woc weapons drop in a belt, WoC was supposed to originally have the benefits of 1. no drop, 2. cosmetics. and right now... both of those are gone, they instead are ever so slightly more viable for pvp and now every woc item can drop in a belt.



And this one goes to every player out there thats is dogging on APUs taking too much damage. If you want them to be as resistant as their near the same damage dealing counterparts... spec some tech combat instead of agility and be just as slow, but able to use protection nanites to even the difference.
From what I saw, there is no class requirement.




EDIT::::: UPDATE THE LAUNCHER. God how lazy and unprofessional can this company be? With constant customer support... which is going from the customers to the company and not the other way around like it should... stuff still doesn't happen. Its rediculous.

Archtemplar
27-03-07, 23:54
Well, I figure i'll get my gimped chars' Les put in and log for another few weeks. ttyl :)

evs
28-03-07, 00:02
pve changes plx

Dogface
28-03-07, 00:07
pve changes plx

/Signed

Rambus
28-03-07, 00:25
PVE is super easy if you are a 90 + strength tank, heck I got to woc from 90 strength in only two days of leveling.

Now if you arnt almost already capped, or god forbid *new* to this game. You better get used to being 0/2.

Nightwing
28-03-07, 01:05
pve changes plx

/Signed

/SIGNED



/Signed


ooooo, God has spoken :eek: o_O

gstyle40
28-03-07, 01:43
Its probably more the problem with the non full close on AOE weapons reticles currently.

Either way its a nice weapon just the problem with how WoC is been implemented at the moment is pushing balance more in favour of Spy's, and frankly the WoC weapons given to spys compared to the two tank class WoC weapons are far superior. The wocket launcher is nice, but a single shot clip.... don't think theres a single other weapon like that in the game, and the hurler king knuckles being the first person on terra along with cmaster to do the quest we both realized the stats were a joke putting it below existing rares.

While spys have been getting new high class high damage.... an automatic sniper rifle, xbow... etc

just to let those that dont know, hurler king knucks arent woc anymore. so tanks hav 1 woc weapon again......happy huntin :D

Toxen
28-03-07, 02:58
just to let those that dont know, hurler king knucks arent woc anymore. so tanks hav 1 woc weapon again......happy huntin :D

Man that sucks I had to login and check because i couldn't believe it So thats 3 pistols 3 rifles and 1 hc woc weapon...... KK quit the spy loving or you'll end up with spy'o'cron as apposed to the old monk'o'cron you just balanced out

Vid Gamer
28-03-07, 03:03
fixing something like PvE takes time.. rather get it right then do a half ass fix that ruins more

R3N3GADE
28-03-07, 03:09
why should those who put the time into getting woc loose what they worked for. if others dont choose to do it thats there choice.
i thought woc was meant to be the next lvl for capped runners now its just being made into a waste of time.
as for implants taking damage what about those of us that dont have chars that can hunt in mc5 to replace them this will just make them go up in value as sellers know they will be needed even more. yet again some in nc get screwed while others who dont put the time in get just as much.
seems like we are going to get punished more for pvp. this is what we play for is'nt it?

Dribble Joy
28-03-07, 04:51
why should those who put the time into getting woc loose what they worked for.
It depends what they have worked for. If we want the majority of players to enter the mainstay of NC's end game, PvP, then it's variation and more options, usefull but not ultimately relevent skills and visuals.

A skill based game is only really skill based if the game system is fair. If we want NC's PvP to be fair then all people playing it need to be at an equal pegging.

z5o3
28-03-07, 05:48
pve changes plx


/Signed


/Signed


/Signed


/Signed

/Signed

IceStorm
28-03-07, 06:07
I'm not sure to understand : you said "abused" ? I don't think it's the good word because in 2.1 implants bonus/malus and PA requirements combined with gloves "specials" bonuses lead on the player to use them ! Now in 2.2 it work the way it has to be, that's all.I never knew using the gloves to get armor on was an issue. I used to do it all the time as when I would GR the imp "stick" would fail on some of my on-edge chars, so I'd put on my REC glove, put on my TL115 PA, then pull off the glove so I could hunt.

Anywho, yeah, I'd see KK considering it "abuse" if they had intended people to use level 5 drugs instead, but if this is the reason for adding an imp req, well... in light of the nanite change, it's actually a bonus now for anyone who needs DEX or INT. The maluses on the glove have little impact on combat (-3.83 TC, and that's it).

Braywurst
28-03-07, 06:11
I wish to understand this construction fix a bit better. I have a capped constructer with all my points in construct, all the construct imps, glove, holy ppu buff, and a clan op bonus. That all puts me at 313 construct. Now i was to understand that all items' construct cap was set to 94%? but when i try build tl 100 item I get only 89% stats? this is with the maximum possible amount of construct a player can have. So is this correct that I can't reach 94% stats on any higher tl item (not rares) ?

Toxen
28-03-07, 06:26
I wish to understand this construction fix a bit better. I have a capped constructer with all my points in construct, all the construct imps, glove, holy ppu buff, and a clan op bonus. That all puts me at 313 construct. Now i was to understand that all items' construct cap was set to 94%? but when i try build tl 100 item I get only 89% stats? this is with the maximum possible amount of construct a player can have. So is this correct that I can't reach 94% stats on any higher tl item (not rares) ?

313 isn't cap 328.55 is

gstyle40
28-03-07, 06:32
and i would like to understand this le thing. a friend tried to put his le back in since it was broken in his head. i bought him a new one to put in, and the game wont let him. i thought we were supposed to b able to put them back in for a week? tried a relog, full alt f4 relog, zoning even removing all imps and nothing worked. says he's past level 30, he's almost capped as he was when it broke. a lil help here plz

Dribble Joy
28-03-07, 07:09
The non-rare cst issue is quite annoying. That said the rare quality values seems just right. Ie. how they used to be.

Archtemplar
28-03-07, 07:26
and i would like to understand this le thing. a friend tried to put his le back in since it was broken in his head. i bought him a new one to put in, and the game wont let him. i thought we were supposed to b able to put them back in for a week? tried a relog, full alt f4 relog, zoning even removing all imps and nothing worked. says he's past level 30, he's almost capped as he was when it broke. a lil help here plz

Make sure he isnt clanned.
Get him to drag it directly into the imp slot, not into the processor like a regular imp.

IceStorm
28-03-07, 07:56
313 isn't cap 328.55 isNo, that's not "cap", that's the max you can get to if you are in a clan. In CST, "cap" refers to either the max stat cap (94%) or the slot chances cap (unknown).

If that's the skill level which KK made hit cap, well, that's retarded in my opinion.

The max you can reach without a clan but with a PPU is around 277. That's a CST 1-3, TH, Adv Nerves 3, CST Glove, CST Booster 3 spell (+18, I think), and the tradeskill drug (9.91, I think). With LE, that drops to 268. This is assuming Hawkings isn't all that and a bag of chips. I don't have one so I don't know what the CST boost is like on it.

Dribble Joy
28-03-07, 07:59
CST 1 better than SS?

Seraphin[69]
28-03-07, 08:01
pve changes plx

Nerf firemobs damage (68/68 can own a tank with full fire armor +camo PA and fire resist ^^)
Reduce Warbot damage (and its armor actually lol)

netster
28-03-07, 08:11
can anyone for real say the factor the mobs got boosted in armor+damage?

when i think of the mech spiders in j_0x sectors, they are the killers, when u try to sneak to a WB. i think they are the secret kings of the mob_boost as they took the greatest pro's from their damage.

IceStorm
28-03-07, 08:23
CST 1 better than SS?For CST, yes. It's +8.06. SS is +7.86. The INT boost might be worth it, depending on how you add and what impact INT has. INT is +1.01 from a CST1, but 3.93 from an SS

Dribble Joy
28-03-07, 08:24
Not just WBs/spiders and fire mobs. Try taking a cave team down into the DoY tunnels....

Also, did a regants (legacy) run last night and imp condition loss was minimal or non-existant. Thougha full chaos cave run would give a better sense of how much the imps get damaged in situations where you are taking a lot of pain.

Napalm82
28-03-07, 08:46
The damage my PE takes from spiderbots is nearly non-existant, was on my way to the GR at Battle Dome when i ran by 2 who then started shooting at me, hardly lost 150 HP.

- Napalm

R3N3GADE
28-03-07, 14:14
ok i think this might piss people off but on the implant side would it be good if say once ur mc5 chip was wrecked for good that you could recycle it and it gives you one random part back to the chip that it was.
so if ur herc breaks you get it recycled and you get one fo the parts needed to make a new one. after all many things in life get recycled back into what they started out as.

weapn drops with woc items i think this will push pvp into warzones more then into the city and other sectors which might not be a bad idea in the long run especially wiht in city and doy fighting. i wont be happy to loose my 5 slot ak thought... what would be the chances of getting another 5 slotter.

Toxen
28-03-07, 14:14
No, that's not "cap", that's the max you can get to if you are in a clan. In CST, "cap" refers to either the max stat cap (94%) or the slot chances cap (unknown).

If that's the skill level which KK made hit cap, well, that's retarded in my opinion.

The max you can reach without a clan but with a PPU is around 277. That's a CST 1-3, TH, Adv Nerves 3, CST Glove, CST Booster 3 spell (+18, I think), and the tradeskill drug (9.91, I think). With LE, that drops to 268. This is assuming Hawkings isn't all that and a bag of chips. I don't have one so I don't know what the CST boost is like on it.

Ok lemme get this straight your trying to say 328.55 isn't the highest possible construction a player can have ie the cap, yet you exclude the hawking's from your calculation.....
Lets build the uber csters implant set

For the head we have
Cst Chip 2 - CST+14.98
Cst Chip 3 - CST+22.14
T-Haven Cpu - CST+9.91
Hawkings - CST+10.46

Head a total of CST+57.49

Cster Glove CST+13.92

Advanced Nerves 3 CST+5.92

Total CST from implants CST+77.33

Holy CST Buff CST+17.16

Blue Fairy Drug CST+9.06

Total CST so far 103.55

Clan owned factory CST+50

Total CST bonus points CST+153.55

Base CST possible on a 100 int spy 175

Total overall CST 328.55

CMaster
28-03-07, 14:26
OP bonuses are now 11/22/33/44 rather than the old 12/25/35/50.
Anyway, as Icestorm says, a "cap" on construction would be the point at which any more offers no benefit.

Okran
28-03-07, 15:01
Now i was to understand that all items' construct cap was set to 94%? but when i try build tl 100 item I get only 89% stats? this is with the maximum possible amount of construct a player can have. So is this correct that I can't reach 94% stats on any higher tl item (not rares) ?

89% IS the cap for the higher TL non-rare weapons. This is because 1x +16% AND 3x +5% mods plus the 89% will equal 120% (cap). So it basically means if you do want to cap a weapon you have to get as many slots as possible and slot according to what you want to cap...

Braywurst
28-03-07, 16:30
That would be true if I were constructing spells as the mods for those offer a 5% damage for 3 mods and a 16% for the one. But for everyother weapon there is only one mod that adds to damage and that is a barrel which give +16% I believe. Making the highest possible damage 105% So is 89% the cap on non rare weapons now? I'm just wondering because I built a 5 slot Ion Shotgun Cannon yesterday with 89% stats but I bilt a 5 slot ion shotgun cannon 3 days ago with 94% stats. I just wanted to know exactly how the non rare weapon build % caps work?

Dargeshaad
28-03-07, 16:41
(A DB in itself is not TM-complete)
You mean the query language (e.g. SQL) in a DB is not TM? Which is correct...



Not to mention that the correctness of a formular/codechange is not computeable (tho there are guidelines that makes this check at leats partitially possible) if you wish you wish to learn something about the reasoning behind that i recomment reading up on the termination problem and the theorem from Rice.
I believe you're referring to the halting problem and not the termination problem ;)

I just needed to comment on this because I'm heavily traumatized by the computability and complexity course I had some years ago.....I picked Rice's theorem for the exam :(

A bit on topic I would like to ask how come after this patch (or maybe earlier, I haven't played that much before this patch) I seem to encounter quite a few reload issues, where my weapon randomly reloads when not empty. And yes I have >100 stam when this happens.

Is this an old bug or?

IceStorm
28-03-07, 17:06
Ok lemme get this straight your trying to say 328.55 isn't the highest possible construction a player can have ie the cap,Don't confuse the two. There are three sets of numbers:

- Max CST skill level a player can achieve
- The point at which a given weapon builds to 94% base stats. This is the CST quality cap
- The point at which more CST skill does not yield better slot chances. This is the slot cap (no way to determine it)

Caps in CST traditionally refer to the last two definitions, not the CST skill level possible.
yet you exclude the hawking's from your calculation.....I don't own a Hawkings so I don't know its value. As your list points out, it's 10.46, so the most difference it'll make is 2.4 CST points and 3.9-ish INT points over using a CST1.

I'm just wondering because I built a 5 slot Ion Shotgun Cannon yesterday with 89% stats but I bilt a 5 slot ion shotgun cannon 3 days ago with 94% stats. I just wanted to know exactly how the non rare weapon build % caps work?KK has never told us exactly how CST works. The only information KK has ever divulged about CST has been:

The relative influences CST, INT, and DEX have on construction, typically put in a "Skill Guide" thread after each major revision.
Thanatos has posted how construction works (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?p=1385633&highlight=influence#post1385633) in the past. Whether or not that explanation still holds true, we don't know.

If you're building to 89%, add 10 or 20 more levels of CST and see if it changes the outcome. If it does, you aren't capped. If you hit 94%, you've hit the quality cap, but we still don't know if the new quality cap is also a slot cap or not. I assume zee Germans are hard at work determining that, or at least trying to. :-)

kurai
28-03-07, 18:02
A bit on topic I would like to ask how come after this patch (or maybe earlier, I haven't played that much before this patch) I seem to encounter quite a few reload issues, where my weapon randomly reloads when not empty. And yes I have >100 stam when this happens.

Is this an old bug or?I've noticed that quite a few of the weapons have changed clip capacity, and that a lot of the ammo packs have changed shot quantity. The old sized ammo packs still work (where the ammo type has not been changed entirely, that is ;)) but tend to reload at odd intervals.

Dribble Joy
28-03-07, 18:11
Judge is now a 20 round clip, with a much high rof, which in addition to it's allready low dmg (which the rof doesn't make up for), makes it really quite bad (clip empties faster than that of a libby in 2.1).

John Bushido
28-03-07, 18:16
yeah, i tested a judge setup yesterday, its not rly funny to fight with by now except 1 on 1

but if ur fighting 2+ guys u need to switch to Wyatt Earp or die...

Dargeshaad
28-03-07, 18:17
I've noticed that quite a few of the weapons have changed clip capacity, and that a lot of the ammo packs have changed shot quantity. The old sized ammo packs still work (where the ammo type has not been changed entirely, that is ;)) but tend to reload at odd intervals.
Ohhh, you know that actually makes sense since I've only used old ammo so far....cheers!

Zheo
28-03-07, 18:53
It's AoE, use 1st person.

You obviously don't play a HC character so you can't really put anything useful into this topic, but if you DID you'd know that even in 1st person you still have to fire at around a forty five degree angle upwards to avoid blowing your own feet of, if your lucky it will go where it should and hit the enemy. If your not it'll blow you up anyway. AOE weapons in general now have 0% accuracy because of the OLD style of fire thus they are only useful in a confined space such as chaos caves, or graves etc.

Dogface
28-03-07, 20:44
You obviously don't play a HC character so you can't really put anything useful into this topic

Alright, no need..


But if you DID you'd know that even in 1st person you still have to fire at around a forty five degree angle upwards to avoid blowing your own feet of, if your lucky it will go where it should and hit the enemy. If your not it'll blow you up anyway. AOE weapons in general now have 0% accuracy because of the OLD style of fire thus they are only useful in a confined space such as chaos caves, or graves etc.

Then aim 45 degrees up..? I really don't see a problem here to be honest. It doesn't really matter if you have to do a hand-stand while singing this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PcT6N9VuT4) while patting your head and rubbing your stomach, as long as the thing hits it's target. And hit it's target it does, I've been in plenty of op wars where HC AoE weapons have been used to attack people coming up from the UG. This was from long range and from short range. Hell, it's a fuckin' rocket launcher, not a sniper rifle.

Anyway, it doesn't need to be mega accurate as you seem to want it, it has AoE for a reason.

ashley watts
28-03-07, 20:48
You obviously don't play a HC character so you can't really put anything useful into this topic, but if you DID you'd know that even in 1st person you still have to fire at around a forty five degree angle upwards to avoid blowing your own feet of, if your lucky it will go where it should and hit the enemy. If your not it'll blow you up anyway. AOE weapons in general now have 0% accuracy because of the OLD style of fire thus they are only useful in a confined space such as chaos caves, or graves etc.


On about his Tank again eh o_O

neways still not liking the damage on

Warhammer launcher
Ray weapons o0 still to powerfull for their Tl
Laser weapons
Wyat earp
And PvM is still fuckered :S
Love the Imp damage fix though <3

kg-ua
28-03-07, 21:09
- Fixed a bug in the calculation of the construction skill that caused items to be constructed at higher quality than intended.

Now to cap tl80 weapon u need about 295 cst ... is it so planned to be, or will it be fixed? I think KK gone too far with nerfing csters so much this time

IceStorm
29-03-07, 01:02
Now to cap tl80 weapon u need about 295 cst ... is it so planned to be, or will it be fixed? I think KK gone too far with nerfing csters so much this timeUh, woah. That's even higher than on test...

Are you a capped INT/DEX CSter? On test I hit 93% base with a TL81 weapon at around 268 CST, capped INT/DEX. At 258 I was building to 92%. It shouldn't take 295CST to build to 94% base, unless the curve shoots up at the end.

Eternal Pink
29-03-07, 01:19
All store brought/HN caps at 94% now rather than falling in quality cap as the TL increases.

It finally took me 298 CST to cap a TL 86 black sun at 94%.

Now in 2.1 to have the maximum chance for slots ( yes chance since there still random ) you needed to cap quality which plainly is not possible for the average constructor sitting in TH/Plaz 1/MB/DoY in 2.2 which is where most trade skilling happens, and even then its for non-capped chars that have probably only been in the game anywhere from a day to a month or two.

Now while the intention of this may have been to make the factory ops more important ( and as a member of a clan that owns a couple of them i'm perfectly fine ) it doesnt work since the majority of capped chars have already got there stuff so nerfing CST this much only hurts new comers.

And as object status are now even more important for getting the most out of your char they are even further disadvantaged against, so seriously if you really don't want the population to increase just disable the account creation page, it will save time rather than putting as many hurdles in the way for new comers as possible.

Bredahl
29-03-07, 09:55
On about his Tank again eh o_O

neways still not liking the damage on

Warhammer launcher
Ray weapons o0 still to powerfull for their Tl
Laser weapons
Wyat earp
And PvM is still fuckered :S
Love the Imp damage fix though <3


Whats wrong with the Wyatt? :confused: its like the only usefull weapon for pistol PEs that dont have WoC :rolleyes:

Toxen
29-03-07, 10:48
On about his Tank again eh o_O

neways still not liking the damage on

Warhammer launcher
Ray weapons o0 still to powerfull for their Tl
Laser weapons
Wyat earp
And PvM is still fuckered :S
Love the Imp damage fix though <3

The wocket
200-300 on a dammage on a buffed monk, single shot then reload. Comparing it to the Silter hunter does a little less damage per shot, but has far better range and is multi shot per clip. IMO its balanced.

Agree with you on ray weapons.

Laser weapons sort of half agree half disagree, the damage needs to be tweaked to be respective of their weapon size. Lower at the pistol end, medium for rifles, cannons leave alone yes i know the creed is insane currently.... but I have yet to see a creed in use on tera so I don't rank it as a problem yet.

Wyatt earp... thats more a product of resistance ranges than any change to the weapon itself.

Bredahl
29-03-07, 11:16
Ravager is insane for its TL.. It outdamages CS by far atm..
And that sucks cuz CS > Rav in sexyness tbh

nabbl
29-03-07, 11:33
Creed > TL110 SF Plasma Wave > Rav :P

Nullvoid
29-03-07, 15:06
I've always stuck with the ravager ever since it was first introduced. The cs with its multiple green blobs just never seemed to have the same appeal.

CMaster
29-03-07, 15:15
I've always stuck with the ravager ever since it was first introduced. The cs with its multiple green blobs just never seemed to have the same appeal.

Does anyone else miss the blue rav? Its how you knew it was a rav and not an SF or a plain old plasma wave.

silent000
29-03-07, 15:21
I miss the old models, and i can remember that if you went into first person with a rav it had a tanned green clip :cool:

VegaH
29-03-07, 15:25
TBH the Rav identity is now lost with the new green color....why to change that? It was much better with his own distinctive color in blue.

Get this back.....and get me my old rez animation back as well...also.....the ppu rare spells are now all white beside of the TSS....this is also gay, put different colors.

cl0wn
02-04-07, 02:24
i want bugs to be ATUALLY fixed and not fucked up.