View Full Version : My thoughts after yesterday's op-wars
So, I know there's has been a lot of both positive and negative things, but i'm just going with the negative one (although I think 2.2 contains positive things)
I had a fight yesterday with my clan, which is BiBo, that was agaisnt SOAD and SWAT. (here i'm not talking about skills of those clans).
Here I spent a lot of time trying to tell everyone what would happen when 2.2 is out. We are at it right now, and I just wanted to say that it doesn't have anything to do with global balance of classes.
Of course there are still a few minor wrong things about the balance, but right now, fun of PvP is TOTALLY gone. Some may think in the way that I don't like it because I can't play or anything, but its not that.
I just wanna pass away the actual problem of the monk, which isn't a problem, I enjoy playing APU now which wasn't the case before so i'm not missing "old pwning monks" either.
So I was talking about yesterday's fight which we lost, you can hardly win nowadays if the enemy have more people. But again, this isn't the problem, I'm not like a crazy motherfucker and I easily accept to be defeated if the fight has been nice.
It was bascially a 1 vs 1 vs 1 there, I think I don't need to mention how cool and unusual is that kind of situation in Neocron 2.
Unfortunately, the fight wasn't fun at all as you guess.
I didn't get fun and I don't think it was a direct matter of Balance.
I'm talking here about the PvP system itself. i'm thinking right now it's really shit, and as some people would say around the game or the forums, a few people might be probably gone after the 30 days period.
I'm sorry to tell this after a hard and long period of work but the PvP si totally shit and boring especially after the new balance.
I've just watched you name numerous reasons, and then saying those weren't the reasons why you didn't have fun.
What actually IS the reason that you think PvP sucks?
I've just watched you name numerous reasons, and then saying those weren't the reasons why you didn't have fun.
What actually IS the reason that you think PvP sucks?
Actually I think it's pretty slow and missing a huge netcode correction. Besides that I think your character should be way more active during a PvP OP WAR situation, I mean, it's less depending on skill right now, just the number of players matter.
Dunno If you can get what I mean
Think you could go into more detail than simply "its not fun"? I know what you mean myself, especially on the slow runspeed and very slow rates of fire, but Reakktor don't seem to actively play the game often themselves to realise the bad decisions they keep making. Feel free to prove me wrong there, and of course I don't mean it as an insult, it's an observation.
They're probably thinking slower gameplay means less clipping, but what I'd like to know is have they actually thought about the fun factor with these new settings? It's less fun for me and lots of other people, plus we've already had to put up with the clipping issue for years. If clipping can't be lessened without making things less fun than they were, it seems like a daft change to make.
I'd rather see faster speeds all round and lower damage, rather than very slow speeds and higher damage. Reakktor seem to go down their own road which more often than not isn't to the taste of the people who actually play the game regularly. Neocron in the past has always be a fast paced fun shooter MMORPG, but now the feel to the game is considerably worse IMO.
I completely agree with what's been said. I have no urge to play NC now, for some reason unknown I still do. Most of my clan are going inactive (or at least the remaining few active members who keep it fun) and now I'm thinking of leaving my account active but maybe logging in every few weeks to see what's going on. That's all KK care about though right, the money?
PvP balance was no where near achieved in 2.2, 2.1 was way more balanced. The fun was 'fixed' in 2.2, 2.1 was way more fun. Now it seems the game is going from accident to disaster with every change.
If only KK would bring back 2.1 with the changes the community actually wanted before 2.2...
They're probably thinking slower gameplay means less clipping, but what I'd like to know is have they actually thought about the fun factor with these new settings? It's less fun for me and lots of other people, plus we've already had to put up with the clipping issue for years. If clipping can't be lessened without making things less fun than they were, it seems like a daft change to make.
I'd rather see faster speeds all round and lower damage, rather than very slow speeds and higher damage. Reakktor seem to go down their own road which more often than not isn't to the taste of the people who actually play the game regularly. Neocron in the past has always be a fast paced fun shooter MMORPG, but now the feel to the game is considerably worse IMO.
You explain things far better than I do.
I will do it as simple as it can be.
SKill of players has been replaced by numbers of players.
And I think instead of making everyone slower we SHOULD DEFINATLY deal with the netcode problem as fast as possible
And in the future, before taking decisions about balance, please, consider the "fun" we can have in PvP fights.
I just don't consider Neocron as a FPS/RPG, it's just simply going RPG.
Sorry for the double post but I think a "big" thread should be created about this, I really think there are still changes that have to be made.
Let me ask you this, would you have posted this rant if you had won the OP war? I think this is just about boiled up anger at the time, and you are blaming this on the game.
Apocalypsox
20-03-07, 19:13
Sorry for the double post but I think a "big" thread should be created about this, I really think there are still changes that have to be made.
Your signature is ironic in this situation.
Let me ask you this, would you have posted this rant if you had won the OP war? I think this is just about boiled up anger at the time, and you are blaming this on the game.
Let me ask you this, would you have been asking that If you took the time to read my post ? ;D
I said it, I don't care to loose or Win, I have been playing Neocron for so much time I don't think another defeat would change anything. The change is I didn't have fun while loosing, not that we got **********, it was just slow and based on factors I don't really go on for.
John Bushido
20-03-07, 19:42
Your signature is ironic in this situation.
lol, even thought the same
we have had a couple of op fights one in particular was kinda fun. i dont know why u say the number of people is ALL that matter we had somewhat less (belive it or not) attackers was 1 tank 1 alrdy dead apu and 2 spies who sniped and 2 ppus vs a lot of attackers + a couple of ppus but we still won.
the tank inside the op killed like 3 or 4 people alone and this was not jsut about numbers.
i DO agree however that i think that faster shooting with less damage is more fun then 1 shot every 2 mins with GREAT damage.
even if it is easier to manage kk the fast solution is really WAY more fun
I was fighting for BiBo on that op fight to, on my APU. It was fun to killl people even though i had to push the tanks about 10 HFs right into their ass to kill them. Most of the time noone seemed to be concerned about my existance or they didn t hit me. However, if someone with skill tried to kill me he could easily do this with 5 Plasma hits.
But this annoyed me the most: There were at least 3 PPUs rezzing at the same time - the whole fight long. We just couldn't kill the DMG Dealers fast enough, and it's much harder to bring rezzing PPUs down with 2.2.
So what i think what needs adjustments is:
-Nerf PPUs/Rezz
-Antibuff for APU / Boost APU
-Boost PE
-Lower Freq on Tank (not shure about this, but atm Tanks rule OP-Fights)
-Anti Stealth Weapons (hit on spy once and he cannot stealth for about 20s or something)
Seraphin[69]
20-03-07, 20:40
i DO agree however that i think that faster shooting with less damage is more fun then 1 shot every 2 mins with GREAT damage
I guess a point 'n' click netcode is easier to handle than a FPS netcode... And NC 2.2 looks more like a point 'n' click than a FPS to me ATM...
Reticle on monk ? That's a joke... people are so slow there's no way you can't lock on them... Just some people keep beeing fast in 1vs1 situation because they screw the netcode that adjust their position very fast making them looking like speedy gonzales on a small square...
Actually along with the slooooooooooooooooooooooow speed of the (non-fun anymore) PVP is that the team with the best PPU and a Grim chaser wins the fight ^^ (Firemobs FTW ! They are even better than turrets)
Nah seriously NC 2.1 was wayyyyyy better and even more balanced. NC 2.1 were xbow PE, NC 2.2 is RoG spies rawr (saw my thread about the damage logs ? ^^)
As far as i tested, i believe that Neally or Uneal or whoever said that....that the game is way too slow now. WHich means that i agree that i feel like any kind of nib can now kill people as easy as someone with good aiming. That being said, I also agree that the number of people will overrate skills of people since you can hardly avoid the shots by running fast now.
Last thing, as i tested it with my own droner, i feel like drones are way overpowered and they need an urgent nerf for the resist. I killed 6 poeple with a ppu with a single Particle Nemesis without never needing to repair it or never reload it. This is stupid.
Thanx
I doubt NC 2.2 is worse off then NC1 wars, so it's all gravy.
Like others have said, you have no points in your post, just basically saying over and over "it sucks" without anything to back it up, realising you're just bitter because you lost a 1 on 1.
Seraphin[69]
20-03-07, 20:46
1 alrdy dead apu
Thanks god he didn't say that was krinahk who rushed in alone !
(I read 'krinahk is AFK', I saw noone, I rushed in... got pawned by 5 people ^^)
I forgot to mention an important point for OP fights. I really think that KK should find a way to make OP fights without a UG, because this is simlply ruining the fun. With the actual game, i would qualify an OP fight as being a 6 foot square space with a bunch of people running around a UG and zoning down when they are dying, and zoning back up until they can kill the enemy team.
I don't really know how this should be solved, anyone got ideas? I thought maybe the UG shoudnt get locked to enemy, or maybe the hackterm should be far away from the UG to force the defending team to come fight outside or something like that?
Cya
I doubt NC 2.2 is worse off then NC1 wars, so it's all gravy.
A lot happened between NC1 and NC2.2, mainly being NC2 and NC2.1. o_O
Seraphin[69]
20-03-07, 22:31
A lot happened between NC1 and NC2.2, mainly being NC2 and NC2.1. o_O
I can't wait to see what they screw in 2.3 then ^^
It's almost worth waiting around for :lol:
Dribble Joy
20-03-07, 23:06
If the ath situation is sorted, then people should be moving a lot more.
They're probably thinking slower gameplay means less clipping
most likey correct in that assumption. If you can't be bothered to rework or patch your netcode and the way the client handles solid objects and runner movements then just botch it by slowing things down. easy and simple ... just add water.
I'd rather see faster speeds all round and lower damage, rather than very slow speeds and higher damage.
i second that also :P
I actually like how it is atm.. Yea its a little slow (my APU is slow as fuck tbh), but on the otherhand my xbow PE has about the same speed as he had in 2.1
And i wouldnt say that numbers = win..
WE had a Opfight for... too long O_o tonight, and we was outnumbered most of the time (and they had a PN droner ofc :lol: ), we still managed to kill theire tanks AND theire PPUs, 2 times (i think) i killed a PPU alone, so its not THAT hard to get PPUs killed..
I was on my APU - Prozac, and we fought... errr some red ppl.. think it was R2K
Im sure that they have ninjaed the op tommorow though, but i know that I had a great laugh, even when theire tanks got 2 dev stacks on me, that made me loose +500hp.
I must admit, that the PN almost ruined the fight, but luckly the droner had the worst aim ever :p
Nerf (high lv.) drones and remove all the -ATH on everything, then i would be happy :D
My tank runs really fast in 2.2. Its great.
and it's much harder to bring rezzing PPUs down with 2.2.
that is a sad fact with the transfered HOLY antibuffs being made into blessed ones thats jsut blah.
all we need tho is holy antibuffs then people can kill ppus again im sure with all the different sorta damage on weapons now then the ppu cannot fully rebuff after he was antibuffed before hes dead and if he does u try again :p
btw the dead apu was KRINAHK :D
btw yes ath nerf would should and have to be fixed so people can start running fast again.
that is a sad fact with the transfered HOLY antibuffs being made into blessed ones thats jsut blah.nc1 anti buff in 2.1 - worth 20m+
nc1 anti buff in 2.2 - worth 20k+ ?
Ok had a new op war yesterday, we won every fight and everyone who attacked us, and guess what, I still didn't get fun, it's still boring.
slow pvp, you don't have to do much things as PPU, anti shields are long to cast.
So here's the deal, we are "stuck" with slow speeds just because Netcode isn't right. but even if netcode isn't right, you can still make PvP faster.
I think adding freq to the gameplay, and also HP would make it much more cool to play.
That's only my opinion too.
edit: should be the same for PvE, I tested it, it's really..."blah" !
second edit: Reakktor shouldn't think they corrected the netcode bug by slowing down characters PvP, because 2 days ago I was just running around Jeriko and i never got killed (was attacked with like 7/8 people)
I don't know about you guys but being a ppu, I feel like rezzing dead people in OPs will now be much harder as the ppus are antibuffing. So all you need now is 1 ppu to be able to keep himself alive and 1 fighter and you can probably get the enemy ppu to abort all rezzes. In the past, you could just to to kill the apu first so then noone can make you miss the rez.
I don't say that in a positive or negative way, its jsut something i observed :)
In my Oppinion i think that the hels shud be put back the the length they once were, gives PPUs more to think about because atm all i seem to be doing on a PPU is DBing + antibuffing and the occasional heal+shields.
In my Oppinion i think that the hels shud be put back the the length they once were, gives PPUs more to think about because atm all i seem to be doing on a PPU is DBing + antibuffing and the occasional heal+shields.
some people say damage booster isn't working.
And talking about that, freqs on anti-thigns should be inscreased, and maybe freq of PPU spells too. So it makes the PPU'ing faster ;-)
/sex
second edit: Reakktor shouldn't think they corrected the netcode bug by slowing down characters PvP
@Neally: They probably don't think so. The most likey thing is that they are writing on libraries built from the origional neocron engine, which contain the flaws and somehow I don't think that snowcrash/kk/devs will turn round and say that they have "realised" the flaw in the netcode and will correct this in a timely manner. So i'm afraid you will have to put up with thier 'solution' :)
In my Oppinion i think that the hels shud be put back the the length they once were, gives PPUs more to think about because atm all i seem to be doing on a PPU is DBing + antibuffing and the occasional heal+shields.
@silent000: More to think about? Considering the amount of additional modules the ppu has to carry now and switching them around in a far less than adequate size of a quickbelt, don't you think they waste enough time buffing and healing everyone else and themselves then antibuffing/rezing/dbing and then removing DoT stacks? If the heal properly carried over zones then i would be more inclined to agree, however leave ppus as they are, they are borked enough already imho. :P
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