PC range is shite

[awkward silence]

As the title says...

It used to be a bit too much in 2.1 but now in 2.2 im basically a melee PE who uses pistols... literally.

I have a rifle spy and close or far her rifles aim better. I simply cant hit anything outdoors unless i get to about melee range. The aiming reticle could be a bit faster as well as i feel that is also inferior to rifles.

Basically my PE has about 190+ish pc, 110+ish tc and 83 lore; and i use an all arti judge/slasher/BOH. The Judge damage feels a bit shite but i might be

I tried pistols by shooting a fellow from the opposite side of the canyon (50ish meters) while he was moving. I hit him once and it felt very diffucult. We did the same thing with rifles and not only did i hit half my shots it felt easier. Also within close range a rog was more comfy that a judge etc.

In my opinion pistols should have atleast 50% of the rifle range but no more.
So please consider these thoughts and try to come up with changes.

Rifle issue:
Also the clipping range is rediculous. I can aim at things very far but cant see them untill they are quite close. My fog distance is at max.

[Dribble Joy]

Pistol range is what it should be. Pistol aiming is pathetic beyond anything but melee range (even that is poor).

[awkward silence]

Did you mean that you have no problem with this?

I seriously meant pistols are not good unless you are at melee range, not about melee range but actual melee range.

Weapon categories by range:
- Vehicle Combat ca. 650 Meter
- Heavy Combat (H-C) ca. 600 Meter
- Rifle Combat (R-C) ca. 600 Meter
- PSI Combat (APU) ca. 250 Meter
- PSI Support (PPU) ca. 250 Meter
- Pistol Combat (P-C) ca. 200 Meter
- Drone Combat (RCL) ca. 150 Meter
- Melee Combat (M-C) Striking distance (+ Tolerance)

Was this supposed to be? I seriously dont believe these figures. As my reticle doesnt close at beyond 50-100 meters.

[a4nic8er]

1 NC metre = 1/3 real world metre TBH!

[Mal]

Awkward, your ranges are completely off.

I seem to remember reading that most marksman rifles used in combat situations have a recommended effective combat range of only 400m - not saying it's impossible to take a shot that's more then this though ;)

Anyway, pistols should have an effective range of about 50-80m really

[awkward silence]

Well actually irl most marksman (semiauto) rifles have a range of 600-800m. The problem is their MOA is 1.5+

Now bolt action rifles have a range of 800-1300m depending on the caliber. 50. cals are mostly 1800m+ (althought there are succesfull hits done from upto 2500m+).

So 600m is a downrounded figure. Even most assault rifles shoot pretty well upto 300-600m. 300m being the case with older ones like ak-47 etc.

With pistols half decent trained operators with a good pistol can hit the target mostly from 200m.

Ok thats real life which has nothing to do with nc.

My point is i cant hits anyone properly unless im literally at melee range. ie i couldnt get the reticle to lock from the other side of the canyon (upper apps to the place where the medics place's door is. The range in my opinion is too gimped (or and the reticle speed).

Perhaps I would be melee if they (including tanks) wouldn't be useless.

[kane]

I must agree capping rifle just not good enough aim if it is its to damn slow. I really think be great balancing if they could make rifles aim better in fact make dmg besides snipers little less if used at range but make it aim a lot faster... and I mean a lot faster.

[yuuki]

making an already strong weapon class better does not really contribute to balancing tbh. tho most ppl seem to see this a bit different :lol:

[Mal]

Rifles like the silent hunter should have a slow reticule, assault rifles a medium and pistols very quick IMO.

And just to clarify there Awkward, I said "recommended effective combat range of only 400m" and did state that that wasn't their limitation ;)

[Opatagio]

300m being the case with older ones like ak-47 etc.

With pistols half decent trained operators with a good pistol can hit the target mostly from 200m.

Ok thats real life which has nothing to do with nc.


Now I have no idea how much you have been shooting "in real life" but as far as Im concerned the AK-47 only have a effective range of 150-200m. Beyond that you are in no use of aiming since you will not hit anything ( unless you get lucky) and of course the size of the target matters (and Im speaking about human adult paper-targets). Second, pistol at 200m, once again you have no use in aiming at that distance since hitting the target will be most unlikely. Sure, fire off 300-400 .45 or 9mm and get like 20-30 hits on the target. Heck, its even hard using MP5 at target practice on 150m. So, what do they train you. They train you to do fast shooting at 10,20 and 30m range with pistol, because any greater distance will mean you have to aim for a longer time which means you should use that time instead to get cover and regroup. And with carbines 5.56 effective range is up to 400m, beyond that you should really really know your gun and sights in order to hit the target. However 7.62 (G3A3 for example) has an effective range up to 600m because of its caliber and long rifle. And of course its a far superior weapon than any 5.56 in medium to long distance ranges. Mount a 4x30 scope and you have yourself an evil full/semi-auto sniper rifle.

[awkward silence]

making an already strong weapon class better does not really contribute to balancing tbh. tho most ppl seem to see this a bit different :lol:

Im not talking about damage but range. Yes on melee range a pc spy/pe is good. Beyong that it aint so. Rifles on the other hand are almost as good at close range and CAN shoot very well at ranges. A PC used cant even aim properly at close'ish range.

I did mention that the reticle seems to close quite slow but i believe that is also linked to range.

[Dribble Joy]

making an already strong weapon class better does not really contribute to balancing tbh. tho most ppl seem to see this a bit different :lol:
Pistols aren't that strong though, no real difference between them and rifles. The problem is that their aiming is so slow you can't use them at anything other than melee range. Given the lack of range you have to ask what advantage pistols should have given that most pistol users will be speccing the same amount of wep as a rifler (given they have none at the moment).



I did mention that the reticle seems to close quite slow but i believe that is also linked to range.
It is linked to range, but not the range of the weapon like it was in 2.1, just how far the target is from you.
Also, aim speed depends on target size, which doesn't help against players.

[awkward silence]

Now I have no idea how much you have been shooting "in real life" but as far as Im concerned the AK-47 only have a effective range of 150-200m. Beyond that you are in no use of aiming since you will not hit anything ( unless you get lucky) and of course the size of the target matters (and Im speaking about human adult paper-targets). Second, pistol at 200m, once again you have no use in aiming at that distance since hitting the target will be most unlikely. Sure, fire off 300-400 .45 or 9mm and get like 20-30 hits on the target. Heck, its even hard using MP5 at target practice on 150m. So, what do they train you. They train you to do fast shooting at 10,20 and 30m range with pistol, because any greater distance will mean you have to aim for a longer time which means you should use that time instead to get cover and regroup. And with carbines 5.56 effective range is up to 400m, beyond that you should really really know your gun and sights in order to hit the target. However 7.62 (G3A3 for example) has an effective range up to 600m because of its caliber and long rifle. And of course its a far superior weapon than any 5.56 in medium to long distance ranges. Mount a 4x30 scope and you have yourself an evil full/semi-auto sniper rifle.

Well... Hitting the target depends alot on the marksman. I know this because i was trained as one and even well trained marksmen had very different results regularly.

When firing a bullet you have to take into account that it flies in an arch instead of a straight line. Measuring wind is infact more important. Knowing thse quite simple calculations and taking them into account i can regularly hit (more than half) of my shots on the torso part of the target with an AKM at 300m without a scope. The AKM is a bit modernized but is practically the same as a 47.

Now... guns are bad ok!

Let's get back to the nc ones that are not so evil.

[awkward silence]

Pistols aren't that strong though, no real difference between them and rifles. The problem is that their aiming is so slow you can't use them at anything other than melee range. Given the lack of range you have to ask what advantage pistols should have given that most pistol users will be speccing the same amount of wep as a rifler (given they have none at the moment).


It is linked to range, but not the range of the weapon like it was in 2.1, just how far the target is from you.
Also, aim speed depends on target size, which doesn't help against players.

So like DJ agrees with meh! <3

...or does she?

[james_finn]

So like DJ agrees with meh! <3

...or does he?

edited it for you :)

[awkward silence]

edited it for you :)

In teh virtual world there aint no third leg :angel:

[yuuki]

Im not talking about damage but range. Yes on melee range a pc spy/pe is good. Beyong that it aint so. Rifles on the other hand are almost as good at close range and CAN shoot very well at ranges. A PC used cant even aim properly at close'ish range.

I did mention that the reticle seems to close quite slow but i believe that is also linked to range.

Pistols aren't that strong though, no real difference between them and rifles. The problem is that their aiming is so slow you can't use them at anything other than melee range. Given the lack of range you have to ask what advantage pistols should have given that most pistol users will be speccing the same amount of wep as a rifler (given they have none at the moment).


erm i was refering to the post right above mine that wanted to fasten the reticule on rifles. as for pistols, some really need a better aim, some are already fast enuff so that should be balanced ofc and ofc they should have sthing one could refer to as range :p

[Dribble Joy]

Max pistol range is correct in my view, however the ability to utilise that range is near non existant, the drop off in recticle speed with range is too high, and the point blank speed is too slow.

Regarding balance, vs realism, vs gameplay, we have a tricky situation.

Balance wise, it's my view that all weapon systems should aim at the same speed, each reaching the cap easily. The extra range of other weapon systems would be represented by extra wep skilling. This would allow melee and pistolers int points to dedicate to other areas, like poke or hack, or a rifler to forgo range to do the same, simply prefering a particular weapon choice.
However, this doesn't give much scope for those who wish to specialise completely in combat. The skill system in 2.2 allows for this.

However, it means that if pistols and rifles are balanced dmg/time wise, with similar aiming/tl/skilling, what does the pistol gain to counter the rifle's extra range?

Dmg/time would seem inappropriate, too much fighting is close quater and would present pistols with a too big an advantage.

Aim speed is what I would lean to, but again would seem to contradict my feelings that this is a skill based game and should be fair to all.

What could also be done is to remove or greatly reduce pistol aim speed drop off (with a slight increase in general aim speed) and reduce the rate lock on is lost.


as for pistols, some really need a better aim, some are already fast enuff so that should be balanced ofc and ofc they should have sthing one could refer to as range :p
Yes, some are worse than others. I know it sounds a little seflish, but the judge really is appaling, good rof, but that's about it. Low dmg, slow aiming and a tiny clip.

[$ir Mafia]

Yup, pistol aim is fucked up.

Give our reticle more speed in close combat.
Thx

[kane]

yeah i hope they do some tweaking for 162 patch think 161 already in testing.

[jini]

Excuse me, may I ask: Are pistols changed from what they used to be on the test server? I had no problem when I was testing them there as I remember, unless they have changed them drastically with last 2 patches.

I still only play my rifle spy, I haven't rerolled jini as of yet

[awkward silence]

Nah they haven't changed from test. Try a rc spy and then try a pc spy... youll see the difference

[jini]

Yes, P-C spy is far more lethal than Rifle Spy. I have tried them already. I particularly liked the nailgun, ion and xbow. But not the BoH, I dunno wtf is wrong with me and lasers :p In any case mini was killing anything be it tank, spy monk or pe

[awkward silence]

Yes, P-C spy is far more lethal than Rifle Spy. I have tried them already. I particularly liked the nailgun, ion and xbow. But not the BoH, I dunno wtf is wrong with me and lasers :p In any case mini was killing anything be it tank, spy monk or pe

Yes a pc user is fer more lethal on point blank melee range. In just a few step they are fucked.

Now a rifle is not as good as a pistol close by but it holds its own. Pistols can shit unless on melee range.

[jini]

Well yes, but most OP fighting is still going on with the old nc style, that is in close range combat, where pistols have the advantage. Yes they dont have the range anymore, but you still got that stealth tool. When on TS I had amazing fun chasing riflers lol. In the last days, I was attacking them on sight. If the rifler was skilled, I was using stealth, approaching him and then it was the end for him, unless he too, was using stealth lool.

In any case, the fun I had with mini was something else. But I am also the type of person of direct frontal assault. That why I still play NC. I was never the type of waiting for an ambush using SH or drones. When you are close in the battle you "live" the game, which is actually something I never understood in a droner

[awkward silence]

Yeah... stealth works in pvp but not with a warbot.

[jini]

Aaaah yes Redeemer>>PvE indeed :)
But how about a nice drone ? :p

And now that you mentioned it, it's here with us for so much time... Why does stealth not work once aggroed? I willl make a thread in balancing...

[awkward silence]

I prefel the HL for PVE. Does more damage, even with the slower rof.

[Dezh]

PC range is fine, you aren't supposed to snipe ppl with a pistol.
PC problem has always been that you need to get next to your enemy and this is how it should remain, there's no point of hitting ppl from 100 meters when you're both moving. You can try that IRL, it's impossible :rolleyes:

[Dribble Joy]

100m no, but even 10-20 is a problem, having to go down to melee range is just daft. Given melee and pistols now have to spec as much wep as rifles, there should be some form of consession.