View Full Version : KK, thank you for bringing back the game I love!
I'll try to keep this short, as I'm about 2 hours overdue for bed the way it is. :)
My experience in 2.2 has been extremely positive so far. I LOVE how much things were changed up. Coming in again and being overwhelmed with decisions for the first time in a very long time was incredible. I spent some time playing with my points and I now have a setup that I feel is good enough for now, at least, to do some PvPing with.
Classes feel somewhat equal for the first time in a long time. I just got out of a Neofrag session, and the thing that was most apparent to me was how skill once again plays a major factor in whether you win or lose. We did a bunch of fights, and no two were the same. I beat a tank, a pistol spy, and suprisingly, a monk. But minutes later during rematches, I got rolled.
Things feel pretty equal, even though I did see the monk struggling a little to keep up aiming-wise.
But while fighting, I got that familiar feeling of adrenaline rushing through my head. That is what made me fall in love with this game such a long time ago. Thanks again for bringing it back, KK! :)
Nice job
Yes thanks KK for ruining the game I payed for.. If I knew that the patch would do this to the game I would have never bought it....
Oh and Nvidea thats all very well but please try fighting a PVE mob then you will see why many people hate the new 2.2 its definite there are good things that have been added but the bad things destroy one of the most important if not the most important part of the game.
Hunting mobs has turned into something we do only for money and exp and before it used to be fun.
Logan_storm_03
13-03-07, 12:13
I agree. I love 2.2. Just some smaller problems to be ironed out. But hey, it's part of the process.
I'm getting kinda sick of the whiners already though. There will always be problems in almost every patch, plus one of this size.
But I like the changes, it's really refreshed the game for me.
i think the patch has been good so far. i think its kind of good they made pve a bit harder as many people was farming easy anyways. altho yet to fully test this with my alts, and the lvling in my opinion is still fast compared with most mmos eg WoW where it takes ages to level to the capped level. love the new items btw! i think it will take a while for people to fully ajust but as with all changes this happens.
Hunting mobs has turned into something we do only for money and exp and before it used to be fun.
i always hunted mobs for money and xp and im sure warbot hunting will be just as fun being slightly challenging.
@hatmankh - PvE is something that is now trivially easy to tune (whereas previously you couldn't tune one factor without it messing up half a dozen more). Have a bit of patience and please provide as much real information as possible in the balancing forum. If there's a problem there we will address it.
N
bah.. you edit too fast Nid :D
... While I quite like 2.2 in general - the transition is painful and I hope KK keeps up the pace on fixing the the retail version and incorporating the broader feedback they now receive... out of beta, into beta... but I am confident the major issues will be fixed soon :)
No idea of PVP but it sounds interesting but PVE is broken imo.
I just tested how it was being a low level, so I created a hacknet character.
Put all points into hack etc. and went on a journey to infected storage 1. I had no chance against one packet. Fine I guess, I went to LOW-Sec thingy in Via 2 instead and I managed to kill one packet, over 50% hp lost and it took me over 2-3 minutes to get it down.
I thought that this would be a very slow process, fine.. So I head towards my next packet and ohnoez, there are two or more of them pretty close to eachother. I have no chance in hell to beat two of the lowest hacknet mobs in the entire game as a newbie, no way. So I have no idea how I'm going to level up my hacknet character because it's literally impossible.
Well, maybe not impossible but I dislike the idea that I have to go in, kill one mob, get out rince and repeat when there are more than 8 mobs in there ready to be killed. Or I could do runner missions all day long.
Logan_storm_03
13-03-07, 12:34
Hmmm that does sound painfull.
What we need is something that is challenging for the player, but without it being a really bad grind.
What we really need is completly redone NPCs with decent AI. But that's not really feasible. and the game engine and mechanics is abit limited when it comes with AI.
Yeah, it's definately the old NC we all love and remember. Spend half an hour logging in to find a horrific bug has popped up which you wouldn't have even thought was possible (by which i refer to LE droners).
@hatmankh - PvE is something that is now trivially easy to tune (whereas previously you couldn't tune one factor without it messing up half a dozen more). Have a bit of patience and please provide as much real information as possible in the balancing forum. If there's a problem there we will address it.
N
hmm Im not sure what this means, will the PVE be changed? Well anyway heres some real information:
Ok I have Combat Rank 52 gentank who uses a gatlin cannon that requires 63 strength an aggresor would kill me in about 6 shots and I would kill it in about 20 I also get no reward for killing it because its CR is a lot lower than mine, mobs drop a lot less loot and some of them drop nothing but skin and that really won't get me any money if I sell it. A cyclops launcher would take 5 clips to kill even when every shot is on target thats 480 gatlin cannon rounds, that makes no sense at all to me although the rewards may be right the thing that puts me off the most is how boring its become to train it used to be fast paced action now its like slowly killing something by poking it with a needle until it bleeds to death.
I do want better AI and I do want more challenging fights but if I was given two choices:
1. Mobs are quite easy to kill like back in 2.1 they have good rewards and drop a lot of loot they also die in a half a clip or so.
2. Mobs have insanely high hp and resistance it takes 5 clips to kill a mob, they kill you in about 6 shots and when you finally do you get a low reward and no loot except some skin which sells for very low your also near to death after killing the mob and now have to run away from a zerg of other mobs coming towards you.
I would choose option 1. But thats wishful thinking and I have no option but to play the game as option 2. If you can actually call it playing that is.
I think thats the opinion of most people who play Neocron, they want challenging fights but they want it done by making the AI better not by giving mobs insane amounts of health and damage that just ruins the fun and turns it into a boring grind.
If your too lazy to make the AI better then just make PVE like it was back in 2.1.
Yo Apocalypsox....
As i said many times already, what i hate from the new 2.2 is the general slow feeling of the game now. I'm not talking about the run speed but the frequencies on guns, like the tanks guns (CS, Rav.....) and the monks....I want back higher frequencies with lower damage, cause right now, this is too high damage with slow hits, which doesnt require someone to be good at aiming to do good damage...
Oh yes...also, i don't like the new rez animation...and i dont like the fact that my 5 slots ultimated rez now turned into a blessed rez...whatever...
Thanx
Bozz-Von Mel
13-03-07, 18:53
I have to agree with NVIDIA. I really like what I have seen. I am still working on getting resists worked out, but I like the challenge. I like the way that there seems to be no "perfect" setup. Alot more flexibility.
I dont understand the big deal about PvE. Aggressor goes down in 3 shots from fire modded CS. IF it is harder, then so what. At least its a challenge now. The only challenges before were areas like Mc5 where it was nigh on impossible for all but a couple classes.
Yes thanks KK for ruining the game I payed for.. If I knew that the patch would do this to the game I would have never bought it....
Oh and Nvidea thats all very well but please try fighting a PVE mob then you will see why many people hate the new 2.2 its definite there are good things that have been added but the bad things destroy one of the most important if not the most important part of the game.
Hunting mobs has turned into something we do only for money and exp and before it used to be fun.
You know, you're right. I have not tested mob damage yet. So I guess saying I love it is a little premature. But, from what I've seen out of the part (PVP) that I want to play this game for, it's spot on.
From what I've been hearing everyone say, it sounds like mob damage and health could use about a 20% decrease -- I think that'd be enough so that they was still a challenge but were also fun to hunt.
Its too bad I and many other medium lvl players can't test PVP because we are too weak to take out our LEs, the only thing I have a problem with in 2.2 is PVE and thats also the biggest way people make money and the only way to make exp so it does literally ruin the game if we have extremely overpowered mobs because the combat isn't challenging its just standing in one spot and shooting away for 2 minutes before it finally dies.
So you're saying the mobs kill you in 6 shots, but you can stand and shoot them for 2 minutes to kill them? Now that doesn't make sense. I havent tested PvE myself, but it seems to be a little too hard to solo atm. Just come up with a reasonable suggestion to fix PvE and Im sure someone will take a look at it.
Any suggestions on how to level a lowbie rifle spy now?
Rob444 must be magical, cause I have a level 20 rifle spy using a 4 slot archer companion rifle which I almost had damage capped in 2.1
Now in 2.2 I dont even come close capping the rifle, I do 4 damage to mobs
I took my TC out and put all points into rifle and I cant even cap damage on a lazar rifle.
Er, easy to tune by us.
N
/edit - what's different between you and rob444 (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=138542)?
He means it's easily adjustable for KK. Adding patches before to edit things even slightly completely buggered a completely different item up, for example when they fixed the heals vs low hp bug, it broke stealth and it activating the tool didn't put players into stealth :p
Now though, this isn't the case.
Any suggestions on how to level a lowbie rifle spy now?
Rob444 must be magical, cause I have a level 20 rifle spy using a 4 slot archer companion rifle which I almost had damage capped in 2.1
Now in 2.2 I dont even come close capping the rifle, I do 4 damage to mobs
I took my TC out and put all points into rifle and I cant even cap damage on a lazar rifle.
There
Are
No
Caps
On
Weapon
Damage/freq/etc
Which is why you can't cap it. And realistically, you can't aceheive the 170%s that we used to. But if he is /20, why the hell are you still using dex 13 weapons?
Lifewaster
13-03-07, 21:18
what he means is part of the 2.2 project was making the system easily changeable.
eg: KK now are able to make PvM easier simply by changing global dmg modifiers (ie: PvE dmg +100%) without causing unforseen effects.....and suddenly you all hit mobs for double dmg then before...etc
Likewise EvP dmg can be modifed so mobs suddenly hit you for half the dmg as before.
####
As many have said, it all seems too difficult atm, but it can also be easily fixed, so just keep putting constructive feedback in the balancing forums when you find issues (dmg log figures are also more helpful then just saying "its too hard").....and have some patience also ^^
There
Are
No
Caps
On
Weapon
Damage/freq/etc
Which is why you can't cap it. And realistically, you can't aceheive the 170%s that we used to. But if he is /20, why the hell are you still using dex 13 weapons?
Thanks for the info and no need to be a smartass, I have used all weapons available to me for my level, including TC weapons and I get the same results on mobs...4 damage per hit. ;) I just want to level up so I can have a PvP character again.
Logan_storm_03
13-03-07, 22:54
After PVEing abit more. I actually prefere it like this. Yes You heared correctly.
It's just enough challenge to keep me on my toes out in the wasteland. I actually have to observe for other mob threats like incoming spiderbots and stuff.
I can imagen it's abit hard when you first start. But for a capped runner it's perfect.
So you're saying the mobs kill you in 6 shots, but you can stand and shoot them for 2 minutes to kill them? Now that doesn't make sense. I havent tested PvE myself, but it seems to be a little too hard to solo atm. Just come up with a reasonable suggestion to fix PvE and Im sure someone will take a look at it.
The reason I can stand and shoot them for 2 minutes is they often stop moving towards me for some reason and I don't always stand and shoot I usually shoot them until they get close then I run far away from them and shoot full auto again, in any case I haven't changed my tactics from 2.1 because you don't need to change anything.
Like I said combat isn't harder its more tedious and less rewarding it was way funner in 2.1 simply because the battles were a lot more fast paced with more action and I didn't need to go back to my goguardian to refill my inventory with ammo every 5 minutes. Now though its just soo boring and long! I could compare the new PVE to breaking a big stone wall with nothing but a little hammer its not hard but its not fun and it takes a while.
Logan_storm_03
13-03-07, 23:13
Are you comparing all the PVE in the game with one dungeon?
Umm... No I have never been to a dungeon but I do know this the PVE has been equally changed on all mobs at least its supposed to be I have noticed Agrgessors seem to be bugged and do way more damage than cyclops launchers.
[ edited ]
hatmankh, you've said your piece. Don't go too far.
N
Im sorry? What do you mean by going too far? Have I posted anything offensive Im only making constructive critisicm after all if its not constructive I am contradicting the reason Im actually on the forums so often since 2.2 was implemented.
Er, easy to tune by us.
N
/edit - what's different between you and rob444 (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=138542)?
I'm magical! Simple!
No seriously though. I'm sure hacknet would be a lot easier if someone constructed my softwares but for someone that is totally new to the game and immediately starts off with hacknet, they wont simply stand a chance.
I also created a 0/2 rifle spy. I kill a rat in three - four hits which I think is just fine. All looking good at low level except that I level REALLY slowly in 2.2 compared to 2.1. I don't know about mid level but I'm sure those aggies need some nerf because they do insane damage even to my ppu :P.
i'd really love to have a server whipe, removing all items and chars and see how happy ppl will then be when leveling without aid from highlevel clanmates and cash up their asses.
besides the only reason some ppl say it's so balanced atm is that noone knows what a setup has to look like. same would happen when you let only noobs play 2.1, monks getting ganked by tanks and stuff like that. just not knowing how to setup your char properly does not mean that the game is balanced. there are lots of weapons out there that are worlds away from being balanced (normally the ones that ppl refer to as being the ones they found a decent setup with) and once you fought against the first tank to get the new lasercannon you might see what i mean.
rareweapons and rare imps are a must now more then ever before and the bug that let ppl const only all arty weapons will screw up pvp for months from now. there should really be a roleback to patchday.
oh and nf resists are different from resists in the 'real' world so don't be too happy about a decent nf setup.
Theres just no justifaction for the new mobs health and resitance.
A game is supposed to be FUN!! Crouching down and shooting the same mob 480 times while it floats in circles moaning is NOT fun, it requires hardly any skill on my part and not much concentration either unlike 2.1 which was much funner and even harder because you would always go close to mobs and look for cover don't ask my why its just something no one does anymore.
Im sorry? What do you mean by going too far? Have I posted anything offensive Im only making constructive critisicm after all if its not constructive I am contradicting the reason Im actually on the forums so often since 2.2 was implemented.
By going too far I mean posting insults. You've made your point (looks at hatmankh's post count) 62 times now, and that's fair enough because you obviously feel strongly about it, but leave the insults out.
N
/edit - make that 63 now.
Hmmm I don't remember insulting anyone do you think you could tell me how I did that?
As for the reason why I am posting soo often, thats because the game is in an unplayable state for me so I might as well watch the forums just incase the developers finally sit down and play the game they made and then they might see what I mean.
Logan_storm_03
14-03-07, 13:27
You are borderline trolling a subject in my opinion...
Plus I think you are blowing the problem waaay out of context. Sure the Aggies are overkill. But the rest seems fine. maybe your character just sucks arse.
I have already clearly said I can easily kill cyclops launchers and other mobs but its no longer fun because it takes them ages to die, its not a problem with my character. I have a HC gentank with all the points in the right places.
Its also not trolling because I am not starting new threads all the time, I am only posting in ones which do have something to do with the subject and I am eager to find out every ones opinion. This forum should have a poll option that would show how much people want PVE made better.
Remember its not harder to PVE its just more tedious and wastes more ammo and time making the entire fights boring and its supposed to be the fun part of the game.
I sort of agree here. It's time consuming to kill those mobs. Why did Reakktor add more HP/resists to mobs, why should it take any longer to kill mobs?
Is this the same marketing trick Blizzard did with World of warcraft?; Slowdown the leveling process to prevent people from leveling too quickly so they end up playing longer which means more money.
I don't know.. I'm up for hard mobs and all that, but too many mobs are way to strong. I really love the idea of having a team bashing really tough mobs to pieces but as it is now it's pretty hard to get anywhere without a team, or so it feels.
Yeah I know, the game is still being balanced, I hope it'll end up good!
Do you know that mobs have armour now? In the past they just had a big pot of HP and the damage you did was purely a function of your skills and your weapon.
That's not the case anymore. Most mobs have armour that now makes them much more resistant to certain damage types, so the key is to experiment. Have you tried using different weapons?
N
I'd like to know why they added armor, the HP system before was fine - all you had to do to balance mobs vs weapons was to add more HP...
I'm actually enjoying this whole armour thing atm. Cudn't say why exactly, just seems to give PvE a bit more of an edge/realism perhaps?
Logan_storm_03
14-03-07, 17:50
Yeah the armour is good. You actually have to learn about what you are hunting. I personly can kill a WB in around a minute with my spy with the right weapon/ammo.
Maybe with 30 seconds if I just my SH.
I Find the same with my pistol-spy. 62/49 TT epic pistol with flazer ammo starts off taking two lots of 68 dmg, and ends up taking 2 lots of 115 dmg. Usually takes about a minute or so to do it.
Chuck Norris
14-03-07, 23:04
@hatmankh - PvE is something that is now trivially easy to tune (whereas previously you couldn't tune one factor without it messing up half a dozen more). Have a bit of patience and please provide as much real information as possible in the balancing forum. If there's a problem there we will address it.
N
If it is in fact so "easy to tune", could you please "tune it" (pve) to allow LE'd Driver and droners to do dmg? You said yourself It is trivial. Good patch though guys, just needs a lil bit more "trivial tuning"
If it is in fact so "easy to tune", could you please "tune it" (pve) to allow LE'd Driver and droners to do dmg? You said yourself It is trivial. Good patch though guys, just needs a lil bit more "trivial tuning"
That's not tuning. That's a bug that needs to be fixed. I don't fear your mighty roundhouse. :p
N
Richard Slade
15-03-07, 00:40
Nid, your post count seriously increases by 1,000+ every time I check this forum...
Friggin spammer...
And, ya, thanks for 2.2, it's leet and stuff :angel:
Not quiet sure what to make of 2.2, seems alot is broken atm which is a shame :(. I will retry in a week to see if anything has changed cause as of now it just realy aint worth it :(.
Nid, your post count seriously increases by 1,000+ every time I check this forum...
Friggin spammer...
And, ya, thanks for 2.2, it's leet and stuff :angel:
He hax'd the forums, he get's a +2 post count to everyone elses +1 :p
Actually, my average post count has dipped to below 10 posts per day, for 4 years. :p
N
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