View Full Version : Tracking down the cause of FRE's.
I've started this thread with the intention of trying to help KK track down what causes FRE's. I remember reading in the past they (KK) were/are interested in fixing them, but needed to know from players what the hell was causing them.
I'm hoping KK will post exactly what we can send them to help (error logs, specific system specs, exact location of the Holy Grail... that sort of thing) and where to send them. Try and keep bitching about FRE's/etc elsewhere, as I'm really aiming with this thread to simply try and help.
only one common thing i know of was NTL :p
No joke. A lot of guys who use NTL including myself experienced FRE's more frequently than others.
Zoning, trading, opening Citycom, clicking on certain blank text lines in the citycom, logging out and of course - doing nothing.
When you drag an item from a mob to loot, and just dumping stuff on the floor, you do it quickly. Sometimes so quickly, with a little bit of server lag the item you've dumped on the floor (or put in your inventory) remains on the mob for a split second. Drag that item before it vanishes, and put it anywhere other than back in the mob and you get a FRE, every time.
If you are wanting to really help and track down what cuases FRE's I think firstly you need a full and detailed description of what an FRE is so we dont get mixed messages... about other problems and issues.
Also some form of template as to how people can explain what was happening...
Like...
Computer Specifics
Driver Specifics
Whether using DX7 or DX9 neocron dll
What server
Detailed description of what you were doing at the time....
Anything that might distinguish one pc from another...
Also is there a way to log everything that happens in neocron to a file so we can spot what happens when fre's occur etc...
Its such a complex issue with so many variables that the more specific data we can collect the better chance it has of helping KK.
I, like any other player have experienced FRE's, lag, perma sync etc often, much less than I have heard other players complaining of. However, recently half of my RAM died leaving me with a piffling stick of 256 and suddenly I'm getting all these problems as regular as the aforementioned players. It all sounds very obvious I know, but people seem to ignore/forget this when they suffer problems.
As already mentioned, the NTL service a while ago was a major pain for a lot of players. I don't know if they've improved the service yet but I know that most players changed their provider. Having a good connection can make the world of difference too. I'm only on 4 meg broadband but it seems to cause these problems to happen far, far less than when I was on 2 meg.
And obviously, for those that are just a bit dim, having as few programmes running in the background as possible helps a lot too. Yes, that means stop downloading the latest episodes of "House MD" whilst playing Neocron.
These are just my experiences, and it's possible they won't apply to all. I do feel they will apply to most though.
Dribble Joy
16-02-07, 18:24
Virgin bought ntl and hired something like 500 (or was it 5k) extra support/technical staff, so hopefully it will get better. But frankly, Once I get out of this house I am not taking it with me.
CritiNator
16-02-07, 19:07
What is FRE?
In short, FRE means "Fatal Runtime Error". It usually pops up message box that states words previously mentioned! IT comes up with sound of "plop", normal windows popup message sound. After that, game looses focus and everything freezes. When you click ok button, game will exit to windows.
What is Sync bug?
Theres few variations:
1: 50/50 sync = You log in game and you see "syncronizing" text on screen and your healt and stamina is 50/50 and psi 0. You can turn your char and sometimes even hear the speak. Only thing you can do in this situation is to relog. Its not uncommon to get this again right after relog.
2: THE syncronizing = You move to other zone and you get the black animated screen and text syncronizing. You can wait here for rest of your life and it will not load the zone. You need to relog and then you are positioned to reset point of current zone. This can be fatal to beginners, becouse in dungeons reset position is in dangerous places.
3: Black sync = You log in and you never get to game. All you see is totally black screen with syncronizing text.
These are what i could come up right now.
Most annoying thing in Syncronizing is the reset position thing. As i said, that point is usually in dangerous positions.
I have played neocron with 4 different computers ( all my own ) with 2 different net providers. They all share the same problems.
Just to chuck my 2nc's in, I suspect that XFire is interfering a bit with Neocron, in that I get more syncs and 50/50 bugs on login.
The FRE's, I still get them but I can't tell whether Xfire is the cause or not.
It's simple to tell what causes the fatals, take note on the crash message that says something like "The instruction at "0xXXXXXXXX"" referenced memory at "0xXXXXXXXX". The memory could not be written/read."
The instruction at blabla tells you exactly what part of the game that makes you crash, of course it's up to Reakktor to find out what code this is in C++, so they better be good at assembly :rolleyes:.
edit: it's possible you dont get these messages but instead the "fatal-error" message, I think that the crash log logs everything involved in those messages but I could be wrong.
Dribble Joy
16-02-07, 19:29
KK should remake the thread for people to post their error.log and callstack.log files on again.
According to my clan mate FRE are caused by Neocron trying to write to part of the computer and screwing it up. Thus causing an FRE, saddly the main problem is finding what part of the code is causing it to do this, since they are so RANDOM it is impossible to pin them down. So without re-writing neocron's core code it is going to be extreamly hard for KK to fix the FRE issue. (Hire better scripters next time :p hehe)
I think KK and the players have done the 'fix FRE' thing to death. I'm sure they've done a lot to fix this problem and have stated before it's just not as simple as that and possibly can't be fixed.
Well they should know what part of the code that crashes, the error message gives you the exact offset which points to the instruction that caused the crash.
http://www.a4nic8er.com//images/nc2/runerr.jpg
Memory leaks or sloppy coding?
Simply put, cool it. I know plenty of you are fed up FRE's, and KK's done a lot to fix them (way the hell better than in NC1), but I'm sure they'll fix it if we can pin it down. Thus why this thread is here - it's a complex issue that no one can seem to pin down, so if we throw enough information at them, maybe we can get somewhere. If not, at least the next time you FRE you can do something to feel better about the damn thing (besides pounding the desk/keyboard while yelling on vent).
Only time i really fatel these days is when im carrying a certain passanger in my gliders.... Every damn time.
I'd think that some sort of error reporting or more comprehensive dumping on KK's part would help them. Something like Source's mdmp files it generates when it crashes, or the EVE-Online Logserver.
That combined with a decent system to send them in by (Preferably automatically, or with a minimum of user assistance ("What were you doing when you crashed?")) would probably help KK sort out the FRE problem more effectively, no?
Only time i really fatel these days is when im carrying a certain passanger in my gliders.... Every damn time.
:eek: Not fair, I usually got us killed before we fataled..... I mean uh.. I don't wanna talk about it.
But back OT, I agree with Morpheous at least to some extent. I dunno if KK has the resources to write a full-on debugger with all they are dealing with for 2.2 - However, a more extensive crash report would be really helpful. Even if it was totally meaningless to us, if it meant something to them, that would be fine.
I'd think that some sort of error reporting or more comprehensive dumping on KK's part would help them. Something like Source's mdmp files it generates when it crashes, or the EVE-Online Logserver.
That combined with a decent system to send them in by (Preferably automatically, or with a minimum of user assistance ("What were you doing when you crashed?")) would probably help KK sort out the FRE problem more effectively, no?Agreed. I think the overhead (network traffic primarily) is what has stopped them so far...
For anyone interested, I have found the following helps with FREs:
Gobs of RAM, preferably good ram.
Really good CPU cooling (no, not adequate.. really good), just remember all the times people have wondered about the 100% CPU utilization NC loves.
Defrag your HD, and oddly, an HD with a large buffer helps.
The best internet connection you can afford (seriously).
Run as few apps concurrently with NC as you can, though the aforementioned gobs of ram largely eliminates this problem.
You DON'T need an uber comp.. you need a properly set up comp. For example, you can use a Radeon 9800 or GeForce 4800 if you want just fine, or an oldish 3GHz Pentium or AMD processor on an old motherboard with onboard sound. What I mentioned above is what really counts.
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