View Full Version : #### Attention, Change! : PvP Op-Fight test Event on Quan: Monday, 19. Feb. 2007 ####
Because no one should get unhappy, we will postpone the Runner-Event on the test server. Reason:
Event: http://forum.neocron.com/showpost.php?p=2054227&postcount=5
therefore:
On Monday, 19. Februar - 19:00 o'clock GMT a PvP
event will happen again on the test server, lokated at
OP "Jeriko". To keep things simple, it will be a
"red vs green" fight. There is a NPC in the Neocronstruct
if you want to switch sides.
To all participant: Please do not camp and/or fire at the entrance "Neoconstruct --> battle zone" .
The event should be at least halfways fair. In this way we all can have fun and do reasonable testing.
Killing someone, who is syncing in this moment is neither fair, nor does this support reasonable testing. We are doing something for our game here.
Ego boosting can be done on retail servers.
Stickied, if you require any important information added to the first post or something changed please contact one of the moderators via PM.
Cheers and Good Luck for the fight!
Triv
]Apus have been pretty well nerfed with cast rate and reticle (which is a good point I guess)
Spies have been hit because of the nanite technology : they don't use their psi buff anymore and nanites costs money (that's not a problem on a test server with money NPC but on a retail server you'll be forced to grind a lot to buy those)
PEs are actually the happiest class with xbow (60%xray 40% energy) that pierce throw a lot of setups due to the actuall lack of xray armors and to the fact modded weapon only do up to 25% xray. (and don't tell me put underwears instead of PA cause as the weapons are now damn hard to cap you need the extra STR/DEX etc..)
PPUs are the funniest ATM : you zone, you get your shields reduced to 25%, you heal other people like crap... all you can do is rez for ages
Heavy tanks are screwed by their runspeed with weapon out, their CS is weak and they are forced to use the bugged ravager
First of all, we need a better footage, from above, using a stationary drone.
As it goes atm, spies, pes and tanks are all well balanced and will get balanced even more. We must understand that balance is not just a thing of weapon damage. You have to understand and factor skill, as in aiming skill which affects you, your playing style and your opponent and at the same time, skill affects pvp in a very BIG way (more than 80%). Therefore balance work is not an easy task for the keepers of this game and every good vet like yourself should know this.
Monks DO need some loving, because after all monks give to this game a lot of fun in fights and are indispensable. Even though I am using an overpowered character in Terra atm, I love the challenge of a good monk a you already know from the numerous times we have been fighting against each other.
Choices are for people to either come and help testing the game or leave and go play WoW :rolleyes: Whatever the case, I bet, 2.2 will not stay as it is right now and there is a lot to be done...
If its needed ill run fraps on my droner @ the fight if its needed.
My birthday is on Monday weee!
'Cough' neway i shall b there again and the last one was a good laugh
Dribble Joy
19-02-07, 22:14
Bleh, I left after a while. Too long away from PvP, terrible fps (sitty comp) and the fact that the Judge sucks big fat hairy ones meant I just ended up dying a lot without hurting anyone.
The DoY bomber camping the spawn point didn't help either....
Lifewaster
19-02-07, 23:08
Well there was'nt enough antis for a proper fight at the beginning, so things soon turned into a general free for all.
The drones were also a problem, with 3-4 particle nemmies or raycannon aoe drones roaming the zone, which made it hard to try to organise co-ordinated attacks when half the group was constantly dying outside from drones.
We had a lot of pros waiting inside for antis to charge in , but with the drone problems outside very few actually reached them.......
Maybe a drone-free fight would be more productive next time.
Here are the reasons why it failed:
1. We were unlucky on this, but at the same time (for the second time as well after that event) there was a fight going on on Terra, where Terrans were fighting Marsians Soad :p From what I hear it was nice, large scale OP fight the old style :p
2. Neither noob droners, 2-3 doy bombers and nibs using every overpowered weapon there is to give them "the edge" help the rest to test the game, since these will be the first that will get a nerf in a forthcoming patch.
Next time I think it's a lot better if we choose a day free of events, and make it like an Event, with rules and the like, kicking all that dont comply.
Saying all that I enjoyed some real sniping action with Tubby, and others, which shows why snipers can be real fun an why droners need some rethink
@DJ: forget about playing the game dribble, unless you upgrade to those last doublecore cpus. You are getting huge boost by this
Seraphin[69]
20-02-07, 08:56
This time I participated in the fight and that revealed what I have been thinking about PVP in 2.2.
Mostly there is no more place for talent in that game :
Drones are unkillable and do awesome damage (expecially revenge/particle nemesis)
Tanks are rooted in the ground with no capability to heal. Hopefully they have higher resists so you can get a kill before you die
Apus are useless with their 39/min low cast rate and reduced fire range (despite the spell says 125m I was unable to target a guy above me on the roof with holy lightning, even with psi attack (137m) but the barrel did, and it's also a 125m spell)
Spy rifles got the higher firerate with first love and are doing the good damage
PE were just meattank in that fight
Talent has been remplaced by an easier thing : ganking.
From all the time I fought yesterday the one winning were the one with the most people. I won a lot of 1vs1 fight, barelly survived a 2vs1 fight in the crawl, but always died with 2+ people after me and as that was a 6 vs 12+ fights (3 droners included) we had a very very hard time.
In NC 2.1 at least a skilled player was able to kill 2 or 3 without a problem (althought they were mostly apu players) but I guess I'm dreaming about another game ATM.
No more testing for me. I'll just check if things get better from time to time in the next patches and maybe reactivate a last time NC 2.1 for my last goodbye.
']
In NC 2.1 at least a skilled player was able to kill 2 or 3 without a problem (althought they were mostly apu players) but I guess I'm dreaming about another game ATM.
lololol i want to see that ^^
do you mean a "skilled" player with xbow was able to kill 2or3 without a problem or maybe my lone apu (with ppu support) was able toll 10-12 without a problem.
when u fight against me e.g. u even will have the problem in a 1on1 -.-
Yesterday's fight was a bit of a mixed bag. Numbers wasn't balanced, like it was 2:1 in favour of Pro-city + Droners.
I did run a droner for a bit, but I didn't like them. I like to fly my drones high, but with the recticle it's difficult to keep a lock on a runner. When you do get close to a runner they did fall very quickly with a Particle Nemesis, a bit too quickly I may add.
As Lifewaster said in the Riggers thread, you would need about 5 dead APU's before you could even scratch 25% off the armour of a drone, so drone armour needs a big nerf. Drone armour in 2.1 is about right IMHO, so if KK can get it to those levels, that would be good. Damage output, needs a small tweak down.
I also did get my APU for a short while, but as I was playing with a slower but better resists setup, I didn't like the setup. I prefer the fast monk with lower resists setup.
Rest of my time was spent on my Rifle spy enjoying the free for all kick about, which was a great laugh.
Fraps: Not much footage this week, so I doubt there will be a vid, sorry about that.
Next fight I'm going to sugguest be on a Sunday so the US players can take part.
lololol i want to see that ^^
do you mean a "skilled" player with xbow was able to kill 2or3 without a problem or maybe my lone apu (with ppu support) was able toll 10-12 without a problem.
when u fight against me e.g. u even will have the problem in a 1on1 -.-
Seraphin is just getting bitter now, while he knows that apus in 2.1 are quite simply overpowered. On the other hand, I admit, shooting @ 40 rpm is stupid for an apu with the current speed of the game.
I don't understand why kk(John) insists on weapons so low in frequency that kill the fun, while all they could is balance their power output with some frequency, at least @ 70-80. Same thing as the xbows. Personally I dont get it why a FL can shoot blobs @ 250rpm, and a HL or xbow cant.
BTW, Seraphin's APU is the hardest one I have ever fought on test server...
Dribble Joy
20-02-07, 15:03
Alas upgrading is something that won't happen to me for a long time.
I'll still probably go to NF as I get perfectly acceptable fps in there (20-30), just that OP fights are kinda out of the question.
Lifewaster
20-02-07, 15:39
Seraphin is just getting bitter now, while he knows that apus in 2.1 are quite simply overpowered. On the other hand, I admit, shooting @ 40 rpm is stupid for an apu with the current speed of the game.
Maybe Double APU freq and lower dmg by 25% would be a good balance I think.
Its a valid point that PvP has been "dumbed down" for APUS now. While in 2.1, a good apu could get off say 20 hits in a mass fight, while a bad APU got off 5 hits and 15 misses. Thats been changed by freqs to a situation where a good apu gets off 4 hits and a bad one gets 1 hit and 3 misses.
Lets say you need 4 hits to drop a runner , the old system lets a skillful aimer drop 5 runners before the poor aimer drops one......but new system lessens the skill gap a lot. A skilled apu is still better , but its no longer a potential 5 times better.
This is a sad change for some APUS, but its also an essential change , since its the reason we had monkacron......2.2 is definitely not monkacron
CritiNator
20-02-07, 16:04
Lifewaster, you speak wise words.
I know how big change 2.2 is for monks. I have played APU's and PPU's. Difference between 21. and 2.2 is huge. But its not THAT bad. Remember, that its still TEST server. So things are going to get balanced.
I like the idea VERY much, that neocron is finally turning off the "monk'o'cron". APU will still be playable class, but it wont be overkill.
If you fight OP war on retails now. What do you see there? What do you hear at vent all the time while fighting there?
You see monks. PPU's buffing up APU's , who do the most damage and most fighting. Vent is getting spammed with " DAMN TANKS, Get the F#¤% out of way!!". Tanks are powerfull, but you still dont do anything with them in fight, becouse they rely on close combat and thus are always near enemy..
Runner must be retarded, if he thinks that monks dont need nerf. I dont think nerf should be in this scale, but im waiting.
Targetting reticle is awesome. Damage dependance on reticle size is very good thing.
My few cents..
-Crit
Dribble Joy
20-02-07, 16:24
Overall dmg/time for weapons is something for later really, it's a tweak to get things in-line after the bedrock has been sorted. As such at this point in the TS it's not a massive problem. The Judge is shite, the xbow is strong and the Creed is daft, but they work. It's not like they cause fatals or remove heals.
The APU issue is an interesting one. There's a number of things that could be done:
Increase the freq (with a dmg/hit reduction to be finalised).
Remove/reduce the cast peroid. Ie. Make APU spells more like weapons. Instant cast, but you still have to wait before the next one, rather than the other way round as it is now).
Maybe Double APU freq and lower dmg by 25% would be a good balance I think.
I would say lower dmg more at 35%, while keeping the frequency at 80, and we walk from there. As I said already balancing the game is a very tedious procedure. You balance based on skill.
I was able to kill Krinahk almost at all times, because his frequency was bad, yet he managed to get me down at 20-25% overall health. Fights were all a struggle of a very fast swirling, as all fights against a god monk are, regardless of 2.1 or 2.2. My only excuse was that he take -as he admit- 8(?) drugs while I am only taking 2. If he had twice the freq, 25% less dmg per shot and maybe a ppu as buttplug, then you get what you have already with 2.1. Therefore, balancing IS the name of the game lads, and it's not such an easy task as some might think...
I ran in there and killed everyone on that pe :D
Spent like 20 mins chaseing a dam ppu lol almost killed him a few times
Seraphin[69]
20-02-07, 22:32
Pistol's reticles are almost as fast as apu's reticles
The only difference is I'm doing more damage with pistol than with APU spells because of the slow rate of fire.
Having a reticle doesn't bother me at all on an apu. As all players slowed down their movement in 2.2 (most say it's faster I say it's a LOT slower on my side) I can aim people easily with a fast reticle like pistol or apu's, even with a tank's ion shotgun.
The only thing I'm pissed about apu are :
- The range of spell ARE NOT what they are supposed to (125m range written on my spell isn't the range I can cast)
- You have to aim and stop moving for an instant for the spell to cast or you either miss / reduce its power
The one with a 39/min frequency should be the melee :p
My monk's glove's weight is low and he learned his spells. The melee is swinging 8kgs sword like I'm swinging my RolePlay sword (1,5kg for 1m60)
And basically the server takes AGES to calculate the remaining HP of an ennemy (I saw a lot of opponents down to 0 HP on my screen that standed 3 more fire apoc with no heal or nanites)
Dribble Joy
20-02-07, 22:39
All recticles are much slower than 2.1, despite most people are speccing far more in wep than on retail. APU rectilces still don't need a high level of closure, similar to beam weapons, which puts those using projectile weapons at a significant disadvantage.
Seraphin[69]
20-02-07, 23:09
Problem is the cast rate actually...
It should be instant CAST + a sort of spell cooling (like a reload) cause ATM if you see an APU starting to cast the spell, you just have to hide behind something and his spell will miss.
You have to stay in sight of the APU for him to damage you (same goes for the mobs)
And believe me... in 2 seconds you can hide well ^^
Dribble Joy
20-02-07, 23:21
']
It should be instant CAST + a sort of spell cooling (like a reload) cause ATM if you see an APU starting to cast the spell, you just have to hide behind something and his spell will miss.
Indeed. Like I said, if freq isn't brought up to 2.1 levels, instant cast plus delay (like weapons) is where APU needs to go.
Bring apu spells to 2.1 frequency, and what you get is a monk with the power of 2.1 but with a lot easier aiming.
Runspeed, is same or a bit more, but basically its the same.
Skill Seraphin, is not just fighting in melee range. It is also sniping, making good and smart ambushes, organizing diversions and more.... these all add fun to the game, and was not before possible. The game can evolve in areas not previously possible, because of an apu being able to kill one in 4 shots from 500 meters away
TBH, anyone recorded it? my box is not hard enough for that thought, thats why i didnt recorded it on myself.
Seraphin[69]
22-02-07, 07:57
FRAPS is currently having issues with windows Vista so I didn't
so noone did? :( next time i'll try it again. maybe my FPS will not degrade to 10 than. but everyone will know my naughty tricks X_x
Seraphin[69]
22-02-07, 20:06
Naaah
If I had frapsed you would have seen yourself dead when you duelled me those 2 times 1 on 1 during the fight :p
']Naaah
If I had frapsed you would have seen yourself dead when you duelled me those 2 times 1 on 1 during the fight :p
You mean, like when I gave you the grace shot flatlining you while running away :p ?
']Naaah
If I had frapsed you would have seen yourself dead when you duelled me those 2 times 1 on 1 during the fight :p
uhm? i died 3 times on my SPY... tank apu 2spys combo. i think the tank was nabbl, when i remember correctly. no clue about the apu, the 2 spys were brammers + cole (sry, dont remember your 2nd name) that were sniping over the water (for the laught, i didnt noticed it at all till dead, but then a mate said me your position :p).
The real duel i had with the ppus running arround and some sniping guys from ontop of the steelcage...
Anyways, i just can say about the fight was so cool! even when i was procity this time. on the next fight, i'll try my new lowtech pe + xbow pe. didnt had that time to test the xbow pe on the opfight, but i'll do that next time.
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