View Full Version : better symp idea?
coincidentily i was going to post a thread on this the other day but got bored half way thru typing it and went out =]
i think it's quite evident that the SL system we've been using for the past year is a joke, and the SL system before that wasn't great either (which is why you changed). half of it doesn't make sense in rollplay terms, say you kill an enemy runner in a cave then go back to your city.. why would your own faction kill you, if anything they should praise you.
a lot of people have said you should scrap the soullight idea and just use sympathies which would make a lot more sense in rollplay terms, if you kill someone it should effect all factions allied to the faction of the person you killed as well as gaining sympathy with the factions that are enemy to the faction of the person you killed.
if you kill someone of the same faction as you, you should lose 50 fs to your faction, 20 fs to the factions allied to you, and +20 to the factions enemy to you.
if you kill someone allied to you, you should lose 40 fs to that faction, lose 15 in your own faction and the other factions allied to the faction of the person you killed, while gaining 15 in the factions enemy to the faction of the person you killed.
killing someone neutral should lose you 30 fs in that faction, lose 5 in your own, and gain 10 in the factions hostile to the faction of the person you killed.
and killing someone enemy to you should gain you 25 fs in your own faction, 15 in the factions hostile to the faction of the person you killed and -20 to the factions allied to them and -30 to them.
then make guards attack neutral runners with less than 0 FS, attack allied runners with less than -32 fs and not attack enemies who have more than 90 fs.
changing factions shouldn't be anywhere near as big a timesync as it is, it should also be possible to RP a real bad guy that's enemy to everyone without losing all your stuff if you die.
the numbers i've used might need tweeking (probably do), it should probably be harder to gain sympathy with allied factions by killing enemies than it is to lose it by killing allies, but not too hard..
it shouldn't matter where you kill them either, the loss/gain should apply everywhere, also team/clan members should be excluded from this.
anyway gimme comments and shit on what you do/dont like, try not to turn this into a flame against the current SL rules, it'll only be the 7th locked thread on the top of the page :p
Dribble Joy
30-10-06, 17:45
Essentially what I have been saying for a long time.
Dunno about the exact symp hits/gains for killing, I think it should be somewhat dependant on the symp you have with a faction as to the value of change.
So killing a member of your own faction would depend on your own faction symp and the victim's. The higher yours is, the greater the loss, the higher theirs is, the greater the loss.
So for example, if you had 10 symp and they had 10, loss would be smallish, if you 100 and they 100, it would be high.
Same would be with all symps, the relative symp that you have with their faction and their symp with your faction would determine the direction and scale of the gain/loss.
So a CM killing a BD with -50 CM symp would gain CM symp and loose BD symp, but a CM killing an FA with 50 CM symp would loose FA symp and CM symp.
The next stage would be to introduce the symp of the victim in their own faction.
So a CM killing a BD with -50 CM symp and -30 BD symp (assuming factions don't kick people untill about -32 symp) would gain CM and BD symp.
The losses with indirectly involved factions in doing this would also be affected. So a CM killing a BT with -50 CA symp would gain CA symp. Though a factor of a half would reduce the scale of these gains or losses in an appropriate manner.
As you can see this effectively ignores actual faction membership, so where do they play a part or even matter.
Well, faction want their members to do things for them, so missions would still give rise to CAs being hated by TGs and so forth.
NPCs could be allocated symps so they would be of more or greater worth.
This would lead to factionless play to become more viable assuming more game world aspects are altered so symp affects them. Like:
GR access/price.
Vendor access/price (assign vendors a faction depending on their role, Eg A&W/HEW would be tangent, imp sellers BT)
Guard response dependant on symp not SL.
Would also make CM life easier, either choose one side or spread yourself across, less positive symp in all places, but better access.
Can anyone confirm that the TH missions give Soullight and Faction Sympathy?
After looking at the patchnotes since 150 http://www.techhaven.org/resources/nc2-patch-notes/patch-154.html I can only find reference to the TH missions giving FS, but no mention of SL.
Can anyone confirm that the TH missions give Soullight and Faction Sympathy?
After looking at the patchnotes since 150 http://www.techhaven.org/resources/nc2-patch-notes/patch-154.html I can only find reference to the TH missions giving FS, but no mention of SL.
I ran a few some time ago. Can only tell you they give +5 symp with the chosen faction each time but if i remember right they didnt give me any SL. Mightve been at 100 SL then though. :)
changing factions shouldn't be anywhere near as big a timesync as it is agreed, if you pay to play the game and have fun, you shouldn't be punished for wanting to play with friends.
but its kinda blehthat ur anti one day and city the next thats what i think u should not be able to change over ALL the time like some people do *cough cough*
i'd be happy with a time delay
i haven't played for the last month simply because i don't play games that make you do meaningless work i.e. moving faction.
me to say change well once every week or once every 2 weeks should work out fine i dont really care how much work u have to do to change factions it being easy would be fine with me, as long as u cannot do it all the time as in changing every day etc dont make sense.
We're going to be seeing a lot more of this now then.
10-30-2006 22:38:34 > DIRECT> JRieper : he
10-30-2006 22:38:40 > DIRECT> JRieper : hey this is reaps
10-30-2006 22:38:42 > DIRECT> JRieper : can you help me?
10-30-2006 22:38:55 > what with? :P
10-30-2006 22:38:58 > DIRECT> JRieper : sl
10-30-2006 22:39:01 > DIRECT> JRieper : i need it up bad
10-30-2006 22:39:06 > lol
10-30-2006 22:39:11 > you aren't killing me if that's what you're asking
10-30-2006 22:39:13 > DIRECT> JRieper : plz plz plz
10-30-2006 22:39:16 > DIRECT> JRieper : damn whyw
If people don't have NPC's to gain SL off they just go back to creating 0/2 newbies or ask to kill people for money. This means it's even harder for new players because they won't have the ability to do that when they lose their SL.
Could have blanked the name out unreal..
Anyway, it doesn't take more than 30 minutes to get enough symp for a faction change. That's from 10 FS to 50.
Can anyone confirm that the TH missions give Soullight and Faction Sympathy?/confirm
Black Mamba
31-10-06, 02:31
dont even go there brammers, those missions are a joke if you dont have a ppu, why should we need a team to get soulight?
Not to mention an entire day or even a week of repetition to get the required amount of SL/sympathy.
lol just so I'm clear here: Killing NPC's for sl is an exploit, killing enemy runners at a gr for sl is an exploit. And the only way to get sl / symp back is to do these TH missions?
I only ask this because last night I was told by one GM that it was an exploit to kill npc's, then later I was told by another GM that it was perfectly legal.
I just want to be perfectly clear here as the GM's in game seem to be confused on the matter and I dont want to get banned because there is confusion.
Why not make the NPCs so they don't give SL? Why in the fuck would they give SL anyways if killing them is an exploit? I can't think of anything more retarded except maybe the apple that Adam's stupid wife ate... :rolleyes:
is it repeated killing that makes it an exploit? (i'd assume or else killing NPC's would just be banned ;)) how far apart do we have to do the killing before it is not conisdered repeated killing?
Dribble Joy
31-10-06, 05:51
GR killing isn't an e-word. Though as said, repeated killings at a GR of a player for SL probably is.
Perhaps some system could be brought in to limit the total amount of SL that you can gain per hour/day?
but its kinda blehthat ur anti one day and city the next thats what i think u should not be able to change over ALL the time like some people do *cough cough*yeah.. i do it already, so making it easier wouldn't make a difference =]
why should it make such a difference what faction you're in anyway, we (the clans) already pick and chose who our enemies are ourselves, not by what faction they are.. just cause im pro (again) doesnt mean i now hate you =p
i think all clans should kos each other tbh, its not like clans allie in quake etc :P and just cause we fight each other doesn't mean we hate each other, actually generally the people you get along with the most are the people you fight with the most cause they'll give you a decent fight and not cheat to win.. alas fps players > mmorpg players =/
So, TH missions aren't for SL leveling.
Citicomm missions don't help a lot either. I remember when I was doing the hard TL150 ress missions on a spy, and I didnt raise SL past 20 or something. Quickmissions like killing flies/bees doesn't help either. So what is it left? Someone please specify. I will refuse ANY fighting outside OP wars.
Give us a real alternative with a specified time length, because many people wan to roleplay the outlaws. The SL needs a complete rework.
RP wise and any kinda way its stupid that u can be city one day anti the next city the 3rd i find that blah
maybee its just me
So, TH missions aren't for SL leveling.
Citicomm missions don't help a lot either. I remember when I was doing the hard TL150 ress missions on a spy, and I didnt raise SL past 20 or something. Quickmissions like killing flies/bees doesn't help either. So what is it left? Someone please specify. I will refuse ANY fighting outside OP wars.
Give us a real alternative with a specified time length, because many people wan to roleplay the outlaws. The SL needs a complete rework.
Jini - Read Hoder's response above, you can use TH missions for Soullight. Once you are above -16, head back to the city and use the citycom missions.
So you want to roleplay an outlaw? Prepare to pay the price as an outlaw as you do in roleplay and real life.
Well, it says killing them repeatedly -
So maybe walking past the "odd" NPC and droppped a Xbow bullet or 2 wont be classed as exploiting
Well, it says killing them repeatedly -
So maybe walking past the "odd" NPC and droppped a Xbow bullet or 2 wont be classed as exploiting
yea i noticed that too.. and i dont think its exploiting to kill the NPC once.. only when its repeatedly as statement says.
someone confirm?
RP wise and any kinda way its stupid that u can be city one day anti the next city the 3rd i find that blah
maybee its just meI agree with that. But thats another issue. The TH missions that help raising symps with enemy faction are rather hard to run and take some time. So this part of the system seems fine to me now.
The fucked up thing is the SL. So damn easy to lose but now very very hard to get back. And thats the shit part about all that.
:(
/edit
Also, with negative symps you dont have the problems you get with negative SL. Cant go to cities, HQs, 5 item belt drop, citycom most wanted list, bullshit. o_O
Jini - Read Hoder's response above, you can use TH missions for Soullight. Once you are above -16, head back to the city and use the citycom missions.
So you want to roleplay an outlaw? Prepare to pay the price as an outlaw as you do in roleplay and real life.
yea, but look at Snowcrashe's reply in my suggestion here:
http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?p=2031420#post2031420
So now, which one is it? Is there a link somewhere that explains all the new ifs and buts and the SL system in general?
Edit: there is also something else. Say you have -40 SL and you try those TH missions. Only real alternative for so hard missions, is the TSU no implants/armor PE. Everything else and you risk losing items. If the SL case was failsafe and worked as intended I might have accepted all that loss. But there are cases where things can go wrong, or people that deliberately die in your barrels for griefing. What am I suppose to do then?
Problem here is, that you dont always lose SL because you play "dirty"...
I don't want to play the outlaw, but some people do. Besides this game is far from real life... :rolleyes:
lol just so I'm clear here: Killing NPC's for sl is an exploit, killing enemy runners at a gr for sl is an exploit. And the only way to get sl / symp back is to do these TH missions?
I only ask this because last night I was told by one GM that it was an exploit to kill npc's, then later I was told by another GM that it was perfectly legal.
I just want to be perfectly clear here as the GM's in game seem to be confused on the matter and I dont want to get banned because there is confusion.
So, basically, killing NPCs and runners is bad now? I'm pleased I've stopped playing recently.
I used to hang out in PP and try and own the CA guards myself, and if I were lucky someone else would come along. It took me several mins to kill a guard. A little while later he respawns and I would try and kill him again, but now repeatably killing NPCs is against the bloody rules. Which game are we playing these days? :mad:
Jini - I'll take the later response from Hoder. Which one you decide to use is your choice, and not my problem.
But what do you want to do with your character in game? Kill Allies and become the outlaw, or be the good guy? Being an outlaw comes at a price.
And also outlaws get hunted down by the good guys.
I agree some of the penalties for SL loss is a bit extreme, maybe these should be toned down a little.
Jini - I'll take the later response from Hoder. Which one you decide to use is your choice, and not my problem.
But what do you want to do with your character in game? Kill Allies and become the outlaw, or be the good guy? Being an outlaw comes at a price.
And also outlaws get hunted down by the good guys.
I agree some of the penalties for SL loss is a bit extreme, maybe these should be toned down a little.
What off losing Soulight via Levling....
some nib runs in chaos and refuses to team and dies.
Welcome to TH, you new home for 48 hours
Falk Keegan
31-10-06, 14:16
What about this one:
Symps:
You lose/gain symps depending on your victims F6 and how much symps he has (his symp divided by 5 or something like that). Also there is a check if he is allied / neutral / enemy with your faction, so you don't lose symp by killing an enemy. You just don't get symp if his are positive to your faction.
Factionguards only shot at negative symp.
Copbots / DoY Guards shot at negative symp CA / TG (don't mess with the gouvernment of your city) and at Runners with raised weapons (warning like in beta).Soullight:
Soullight get's an indicator on how much PvP you do. No more lose-everything-important-drops.
With every kill you lose a bit SL. SL is gained by missions and by killing mobs (1 caverun crp gives you about 10 SL for example, killing a player costs you 10 SL).
If the symp to your own faction drops below -75 you get kicked out of your faction and the SL decides if Copbots / DoY Guards shot at you.
If you have no faction, players don't lose anything by killing you. They gain SL and symp with their allies if your SL is below 0.
Additional guard changes (optional - how I think it should be):
No more Screaming Horse (what are they in for anyway)
Guards do not freeze but do more damage (PPU can't outheal them [dies slowly]).
Guards do not instant hit (real Plasma - you don't stand between the bankrobbers and the cops to have a better look).
Numbers of guards for Neocron: Via - 6 Bots / Plaza - 4 Bots / Pepper(1,2) - 2 Bots / Pepper(3) - 1 Bot
Guards walk around in zones except for 1 or 2 guards securing important buildings (Typherra / CityAdmin HQ / TG HQ / City Center).
Guard HP is at lvl 80 mob level. (Cave-Mobs, so 2 or 3 mags kills 'em)
Guards give you symp and drop junk that can be sold to arch-enemys FSM for much money.
Guard can never see a zoneline.
Big Guards in every HQ that drop special items (Copbot Plasma by 44th or something like that) + Warning if HQ is under attack.
+ No more Savezones except TH.
Streetfights ftw.
Jini - I'll take the later response from Hoder. Which one you decide to use is your choice, and not my problem.
But what do you want to do with your character in game? Kill Allies and become the outlaw, or be the good guy? Being an outlaw comes at a price.
And also outlaws get hunted down by the good guys.
I agree some of the penalties for SL loss is a bit extreme, maybe these should be toned down a little.
Ok Ill say this again then: It's NOT a matter of what I want to do, be or roleplay. Its a game and options should be open. I would agree to all, including latest announcement, but since there exists a single (not many as we have now) case of misusing SL (barrels) which leads to exploiting then the above announcement leads to griefing...
if you kill someone of the same faction as you, you should lose 50 fs to your faction, 20 fs to the factions allied to you, and +20 to the factions enemy to you.
if you kill someone allied to you, you should lose 40 fs to that faction, lose 15 in your own faction and the other factions allied to the faction of the person you killed, while gaining 15 in the factions enemy to the faction of the person you killed.
killing someone neutral should lose you 30 fs in that faction, lose 5 in your own, and gain 10 in the factions hostile to the faction of the person you killed.
and killing someone enemy to you should gain you 25 fs in your own faction, 15 in the factions hostile to the faction of the person you killed and -20 to the factions allied to them and -30 to them.
Well that means that if i wanna go from anti to pro, all i gotta do is kill no more than 3 runners of my own faction to gain enough symp with a pro faction to make the switch?
Then we might as well make it so u can freely change between factions whenever u want, cause thats basically the same thing afaik...
The SL thing to me is a rl like feature, and if we start out and dont take the bugs into consideration that would make u lose a ton of SL without it being intended (and hopefully fixed), then it leaves us with the problems like, someone gets in your line of fire and gets hit by u or something like that.
Now if it were rl the punishment would be adjusted by a judge and a jury based on what actually happend, ok we cant do that and therefore there will more often be punishements that isnt fair at all.
What about combining the whole thing with fine, like say if u kill a friendly runner, u get to pay a huge fine and then it may affect your SL a little too, if u do it again within a certain timerange, the fine will be bigger and the sl penalty also.
That way, u wont find yourself sitting around TH for days to reegain SL bacause someone came across your line of fire while hunting or whatever, in other words, it gets legal to commit a mistake or have a little "bad luck", but yet if u tend to get extrodinary "unlucky" all the time, the punishment increases, not only by affecting SL, but also by having the fine attached, which in many cases in rl works a lot better than loss of liberty. :D
It aint perfect in any way, but well, neither is the real world and as we dont have an actual judge and jury in NC to look every single case over, this might be a way of improvement, without it being affecting the periphery of the game a whole lot. :)
A fine could be based on several things, could be based on a fixed amount followed by a percentage of your chr total funds, with the fixed amount as the base fine, it will prevent ppl from just transferring all their funds to another chr in order to not pay any fine at all.
Regarding the SL, how about having it so only a real bad SL will have guards to attack u, why not make it so first of all the NPCs dont wanna trade u or maybe they charge xtra to service u, ofcourse ppl will then get other runners to get the stuff they need, but seriously, i doubt it wont be still annoying for the affected chr.. ;)
The point in the SL system i think shd be to encourage ppl to "behave" and if they "slip", then it shd encourage them to make up for whatever they did wrong.
Letting ppl to rot in TH isnt encouraging anything imo, the missions made for regaining sl may ok (havent tried them myself actually) but yet, theres gotta be some better way to get around it, maybe in a way like ive just described above. :)
Can't really introduce anything before we get a SL/symp system that is as flawless as can be in my opinion. Any changes that do allow us to get SL/symp (excluding the Big E) to me just seems as bandaid fixes, as it doesn't really address the way-too-simple SL/symp system.
I think DJs idea for a symp system would be pretty much ideal, but it would be a shame to lose the SL system after all this time. Perhaps have SL related to something other than a belt drop and whether or not guards will attack?
RP wise and any kinda way its stupid that u can be city one day anti the next city the 3rd i find that blah
maybee its just me
you never heard of spies and traitors or who play both sides of the fence?
ok there's a faction for being neutral to both but maybe people want to roleplay as spies or traitors or whateva. if they wanna put in the effort of switching from pro to anti every few days who cares let them. make note of who those people are & if u dont wanna deal with them put them on ur freakin ignore list.
thought for improvement: maybe there should be a way for all the council of both DOY & NC to declare a runner as a traitor after they've switched pro/anti more than a certain # of times in a month, & force them to CM faction for at least a few weeks or somethin. maybe stupid idea just a thought.
but since there exists a single (not many as we have now) case of misusing SL (barrels) which leads to exploiting then the above announcement leads to griefing...
um, screenshot & report to abuse...
a lot of ppl bitched about the SL system that we had & they changed it. everybody said it was too easy to ally pk or kill in the leveling areas & get your SL back cause u didn't lose enough. now everybody's bitching up a storm cause u lose too much SL for killing somebody "on accident" in the leveling area.
leave the LE in on chars that ur leveling daily if u want. then u cant accidentally kill somebody. or team them.
if the person doesnt want to team and purposely runs into ur barrel on purpose to make u lose SL screenshot & send to abuse.
if u see a 0/2 in the chaos caves running into ur barrels they definitely aint there leveling so screenshot & send to abuse.
im not sayin the current SL system is perfect or even good. im just sayin people wanted a change & the people who spoke up got what they wanted.
You're not exactly giving anything useful here, you're saying report everyone to abuse if they use the soullight rules against you? Why not just make a system that works well instead of just changing a passable system just for the sake of changing it because people wanted something better? Because that's all this last SL/symp change was, a change. It wasn't an improvement, it was just a bad change. It wasn't what we wanted, just a poor edit. We don't want to have to report people in the first place, we just want people to stop abusing the system in the first place.
For example, I hit a CM guy at MB yesterday and he went and jumped down the shaft. Died. I lost 100 SL. ONE. HUNRED. SL. Because this guy comitted suicide? Thankfully, I was already at 100 SL from getting Crahn symp within 30 minutes, doing the epic (Therefore, 100 SL) and switching back, within one evening. But that's a different issue. The fact is there's no 'give' in the SL system, do one thing wrong, you're fucked. If someone else wants to give you a hard time with bad SL, they can do it pretty easily and have any 5 of your ten most expensive items away with them.
Fortunately, I'm not going to report this guy, because I spoke to him calling him a hypocrit for what he did (knowing who he was) and he told me it was a protest against the SL system and saying how easy it is to screw people over. This was a CM char to note, standing around hacking belts in MB still without too much fear of being killed because his enemies aren't going to come and kill him there.
this KK symp idea are just fucked up so maybe they need to new one in evo 2.2 if thats ever gonna come out :o
um, screenshot & report to abuse...
if the person doesnt want to team and purposely runs into ur barrel on purpose to make u lose SL screenshot & send to abuse.
if u see a 0/2 in the chaos caves running into ur barrels they definitely aint there leveling so screenshot & send to abuse.
im not sayin the current SL system is perfect or even good. im just sayin people wanted a change & the people who spoke up got what they wanted.
I could give 100 ways of doing this without even being possible to get a single evidence. For example what if this guy was a spy, on obliterator with 100SL, wanting to frame you and give you red SL? or dogface's example?
Is this the reason i pay 30$ for my accounts? just to report and "photograph" ? thanks but no thanks...
And since when chaos caves is not for 0/2 runners? I went on mc5 with my 0/1 noob droner, 2 years back...
james_finn
31-10-06, 22:14
I could give 100 ways of doing this without even being possible to get a single evidence. For example what if this guy was a spy, on obliterator with 100SL, wanting to frame you and give you red SL? or dogface's example?
Is this the reason i pay 30$ for my accounts? just to report and "photograph" ? thanks but no thanks...
And since when chaos caves is not for 0/2 runners? I went on mc5 with my 0/1 noob droner, 2 years back...
Ive been in the CC with a 0/2 - he didnt level at all in teams though - and this was back in nc1....
dogface dude i totally agree with you
i want a system that works too man
im not sayin the current system doesnt suck
look im just sayin there was a huge amount of posts about how the SL system sucked & they changed it pretty much to how the majority who were posting wanted it
you said i didnt put anything helpful so heres some ideas.
make it so you can forgive somebody their soullight loss for killing you in a leveling area so if it really was an accident you could forgive them & no problem.
make it so if you dont do the majority of the damage to the player, you dont get a soullight loss.
this will fix the problem you just described about the guy jumping off the lift. or another variant of this, you hit somebody once (from a stray shot) & they attack a copbot & get themselves killed so you lose SL.
ashley watts
31-10-06, 23:12
I vote for the old Sl/Symp missions , if your going to cut off the nice ways of earning Sl/symp back up at least give us less SL/Symp penalty , the old system was a really nice way i think and so did 3/4 of the server after the new SL rules kicked in :lol:
you never heard of spies and traitors or who play both sides of the fence?
ok there's a faction for being neutral to both but maybe people want to roleplay as spies or traitors or whateva. if they wanna put in the effort of switching from pro to anti every few days who cares let them. make note of who those people are & if u dont wanna deal with them put them on ur freakin ignore list.okay, i don't rollplay being a spy or any other crap, i'm not a rollplayer :P clans come and go, members joining and leaving changes the clans as well, so i change clan every now and again (and till a clan comes along that fight fairly and propperly i'll carry on :P), the fact the clans are on different alliances means fuck all really, clans don't pay too much attention to the alliances either, they kos "allies" and form alliances with "enemy" clans (i know you're actually kinda siding with me/ppl-like-me on this, im just commenting)
thought for improvement: maybe there should be a way for all the council of both DOY & NC to declare a runner as a traitor after they've switched pro/anti more than a certain # of times in a month, & force them to CM faction for at least a few weeks or somethin. maybe stupid idea just a thought.stupid idea, no offence, forcing people to do stuff in a game is gay as fuck =] plus it would just get abused
im not sayin the current SL system is perfect or even good. im just sayin people wanted a change & the people who spoke up got what they wanted.actually i seem to remember most people were asking for similar to what i said, (remove SL and use symp propperly) we weren't just saying we wanted it changed we suggested how.. KK just decided to do their own thing and it hasn't worked.. so can we please try it our way?
No matter what happens, there will always be a way to abuse the system. There's no point in Reakktor completely fucking over what remained of the current useless SL system like they have with their last decision. No NPCs? People create 0/2 newbie characters (usually on Trial accounts) to whore with. Stop the reward for killing those newbie characters? People will rezz kill each other. Whatever system is suggested and used, like using just faction sympathy alone, will get abused. But as long as there's a system in place that lets you PLAY the god damn game the way it was originally intended, I don't care what happens.
People hug the faction list and ignore roleplay because the penalties are too high. For example, you're a Tangent Technologies runner heading through Via Rosso. You see a Biotech runner, and in roleplay terms, there's always been a large rivalry going on between the two factions, so you kill the Biotech runner out of spite.
Result: "Oh no, I now lost all my Soul Light and 50 (or whatever it may be) sympathy with Biotech with only an incredibly slow way to get it back up."
I thought having to go into guarded enemy territory was one good way of getting your SL/own faction sympathy back up. It's more appealing than spending a week doing missions. I think it's only been deemed as an "exploit" because of how fast the SL/symp can be regained with the newer rules.
I think most of us are liking the old settings a lot better than the current ones now. I certainly am. Speaking of old settings, just had a random idea about the good old backpacks. :p
RogerRamjet
01-11-06, 14:31
I heard killing mobs will some become a bannable offense.
i actually thought going into doy or nc to kill npcs and get your soullight back up was pretty realistic in rollplay terms and ur usually there for at least 5-10 mins so if someone see's you on the NCPD list they'll go bust ur red sl ass or die trying =]
I would have thought if anything, they should lower the rewards and let people continue doing it. Clearly with lower rewards per kill, it would take them longer to get their SL back. That way it encourages people to hang around and get rid of the dirty enemies that are there to try and restore it. A few months ago fights in the FA sector were quite frequent (because of the sector having few guards compared to other sectors), and we had quite a lot of fun there, even though it usually wasn't because of people getting their SL back, but it helped. As always, it got tiresome fairly fast. To begin with people would come on their Spies and Tanks, then get killed, so then they would just hug their Holy Parashock and Holy Lightning. :)
One of the main problems is the huge amount of guards (and their Parashock *cough*), but as ever, it doesn't appear that Reakktor feels the same way on everything that seriously affects (and generally puts a halt to) PvP.
Dargeshaad
01-11-06, 18:04
I heard killing mobs will some become a bannable offense.
I heard playing the game was a bannable offense....better quit while you still can :p
Dribble Joy
01-11-06, 18:10
Regarding symp gains for NPC killing, how about it be dependant on your combat rank/level and the mob's level?
Rather than simply make higher level NPCs give more (which shafts noobs), or a fixed amount (which makes low level npcs too open to abuse from high level runners), make it so that a lvl 5 npc gives as much to a level 5 runner as say a level 100 mob gives to a level 60 runner.
This could also be brought to PvP too, symp whoring a 0/2 runner would get you nowhere. GR killing a capped runner would either give none (as eventually their combat rank would drop) or take ages as you wait for them to loose SI and re-imp.
Rez killing.. well I dunno, perhaps with my earlier suggestion of a limit to the amount of symp you could gain in a cirtain time frame it wouls be discouraged, but then what happens at a raid or valid PK/PvP session?
Perhaps it would be best to simply make the 'valid' means easier or less hassle, make gaining symp harder than loosing it (this is afterall a cyber-punk post-apoc society where trust is hard to earn, easy to loose) or make missions/npc kills more valuable than PvP kills (which obviously has some issues, but spawn rates and the above relative level system could help).
Like unreal says you'll never fix every loophole, but I think we can go a long way to make the system better than it is.
make gaining symp harder than loosing itIsn't it already like that, for every faction but your own?
You kill someone who's Neutral or an Ally in a City Sector and you'll lose like 50 sympathy with that faction while saying goodbye to your SL. That's the reason I've always chosen my kills carefully or just not wanted to kill someone at all when in those types of sectors.
I spent hours going from something like 8 sympathy to 50 sympathy by doing Sewer Rat/Aggressor Captain missions for every faction when I was doing all the epics, and I don't really want to waste time doing that all over again. :) I was in the Ceres Labs and Dead Ed from TFC crashed and left the team, he logged back in and just ran in front of me and Pepsi wanting a heal and we killed him almost straight away. Unrael is still a Black Dragon runner and both me and Pepsi lost 50 sympathy with Tangent Technologies. One more Tangent kill like that and my sympathy there would have been buggered.
In Neocron we already waste too much time sitting around waiting for implants to go in, waiting off SI, waiting off drugflash, or just doing the levelling grind to get to WoC 1 and then getting the disk to enable it. Then there's the other general things like needing to spend endless amounts of cash getting good gear (rare implants, rare weapons, spells, armour, drugs) for your character. Building spells as low as the newbie Shelter can be very costly indeed.
There really needs to be a GOOD and fairly fast way of getting your sympathy back up. How about adding more of a variety to the Quick Kill faction missions on the CityCom? While you're at it, only show one type of mission on the list at any given time, so you have more of a chance to get the one you're after. Make the missions slightly more challenging, like needing to kill 5 Grim Chasers to get 40 sympathy?
There also needs to be a consideration for people who have negative sympathy. The missions to kill the Anarchy Breed Aggressors in TH are just a waste of time. For those missions, make the task double the effort? So from the previous example, make 10 Grim Chaser kills the required amount instead?
Dribble Joy
01-11-06, 19:41
While I said what I said, there are some areas where symp/SL loss is too high, Killing of neutrals and enemies (or given my suggested system, those with medium or low symp with your faction) should much lower losses than ally or own faction kills.
Getting rid of SL and simply leaving us with the current symp system (though not perfect) wouldn't be terrible, symp gains aren't quite like SL ones, and getting back to 0 or low positive isn't hard (from what I've experienced). The mechanics however do need changing, swapping factions is hard when there's no missions to do for a faction if you have neg symp bar the TH ones, which we all know isn't exactly a great system. NPC killing with the current mechanics isn't that viable given the low number of them about and if there were more, low level ones would present an easy way for high level people to exploit, with low level runners at a disadvantage.
As for 0-50, yes it is hard, but then I'm not particuarly fond of the whole hopping from faction to faction for the epics, it just seems a bit wrong, and so I think the current system where it does take a while is good.
What we could do with is more quests, varied runs and missions to make the thing more interesting and varied while you go about it, but taking the same amount of time.
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