View Full Version : NC2.2 and Locallist
Hi folks,
its really late in the balance process to bring in new features but, how about removin the local list, or better only activate it with nano devices and spells?
yes this is an old discussion and ppl opinion is split nearly 50/50 but i think its time again to bring it in.
I don't see the point in changing it. It's fine the way it is and its bug free. Leave well alone.
I don't see the point in changing it. It's fine the way it is and its bug free. Leave well alone.
hmm, so its fine to see that ppl hiding behind trees without any special affort ?
I don't see the point in changing it. It's fine the way it is and its bug free. Leave well alone.
Removing it; would mean not alerting people to your presence. Spys could actually hide. People would be taken by suprise. Hunting droners would be another thing...
The good old local list debate! 8|
Hm, my opinion hasn't changed which is no opinion.. some things about it are nice some aren't. A glance at the local list in a crowded area is really handy if you don't want to target everyone around but the chances of being sneaky are greatly reduced.
Forget My Name
18-10-06, 15:56
I don't see the point in changing it. It's fine the way it is and its bug free. Leave well alone.
you must not play droners then. Nor hasve you come across the new local lag where you see names of people that were there after they left, masking new runners with old runner names.
Just some more bugs neocron 2 created that never existed in nc1.
local list is fine. Maybe make it point of view, so you have to see some one to have their names appear. taking into account for distance of course.
Maybe make it a possibility in the F11 window "Show on Local On/off".
ylocal list is fine. Maybe make it point of view, so you have to see some one to have their names appear. taking into account for distance of course.Hey that's a really cool idea.. make it 'field of view.' I wonder how hard that would be to implement?
I'd prefer to only see Allies on local by default, which means you would have to stay on guard in came Enemy/Neutral runners turned up. Maybe incorporating Forget My Name's idea if it's possible. The local list takes away a bit of the excitement. You see someone unstealth near you and you automatically glance at the local list and see their name to to determine if they're hostile or not (you've probably seen them around and know what faction or clan particular people are in). I'd rather it was the other way around, where you had to target the person or look in their general direction to see who they are.
Clearly there are a few downsides to that, but there's always a downside to something isn't there. :)
I'd prefer for it to only show people that are in your team.
Maybe make it a possibility in the F11 window "Show on Local On/off". i vote for skusty
i vote for skustyWhy? Why would anyone turn off their local list if everyone else had it on they would just be screwing themselves. On the other hand (not sure how he meant it) if you could turn off other players' local view of your presence um wouldn't every single player do that, negating the use or existence of a local list at all?
Agreed with Okran, this would simulate that the team is keeping up with each other. Other than that, you dont "see people behind you" so you shouldnt see them in local. now some of you may want to get into the whole "sound" issue. But for time being I strongly feel that local should not alert you to people you cant SEE, matter of fact it shouldnt alert you to anyones presence at all. You should have to literally SEE them in your field of view. Just like someone in a city setting. Even though people may be in your field of view, 90% of the time you dont pay attention to them.
SO in short
Local should only show people in team. end of story.
This would add a whole new level to hunting and make rifle spies, droners, and practial hiding usefull again. Its too easy nowadays to know that you are 10 feet away from someone just because they show up in local. Apus wont be able to "see" spies in local and hunt them down easily anymore. and yeah stealth is there for a reason, but what about tanks that cant stealth, normally they run away and still (because of local) people end up finding them and killing them as they try to hide. Well...... thats because they arent really hiding, even if you cant see them everyone uses local to find out if they are heading in the right direction. blah too easy in my opinion
Forget My Name
18-10-06, 17:14
Yeah, then people would complain.
If there is to be a change such as this, it would have to be everyone or no one.
does it really matter if people complain? if they dont want to fight thats what the LE is for. If they do want to fight, then whats all this carebear crap about advantages that you wont have, when the system doesnt reflect RL in any way?
as i say in my initial post. there can be technical devices to show ppl nanotech heartbeat scanners, sense enemy spells but only temp and no names on the lokal but you team and clan
Forget My Name
18-10-06, 19:37
does it really matter if people complain? if they dont want to fight thats what the LE is for. If they do want to fight, then whats all this carebear crap about advantages that you wont have, when the system doesnt reflect RL in any way?
yes it does matter because look at the current population now.
Peopel keep thinking that their answer is the rigth answer, like one player somehow has the right to change teh game over other people's opinions.
One of the best thing KK does is listen to players. Problem is, they listen to the carebear majority.
Proof is in the population. What does RL have to do with anything?
You, like most people, mistake the compaliners. Its not the carebears complaining about the LE chip. Never was. It has been the PvPers complaining about the LE chip. So that, I agree with you.
I was basically trying to say that, people who dont want to fight use the LE. Those who do want to fight I would suppose want more realistic fighting. On that front they should support no local. If they want a local list and want more realism then that local list should be provided by items in game that they have to use, or by psychic powers implimented in game. another layer of realism added rather than making it carebear and have everyone know where everyone else is all the time.
It tends to be people who hate dieing in pvp, and who learn to rely on it that refuse these suggestions. If they hate dying in pvp, then put the LE back in. Otherwise there is no real good reason to keep local.
In certain situations where people will be sharing their location, IE in team or clan then yes local could work for that, but other than that if im a spy running around hunting you, im not realistically going to be telling you when i come within 10 feet of you.
From what i understand people want REALISM within the realm of the game. IE. realistic hapenings with any additional properties of the game. so while we want realism we also want to simulate things not in real life like psychic abilities, and nanites that cause stealth. That doesnt inherently mean screwing up typical human perception of what around you (ie knowing everyone whos around you, who they are, and if they are non pvpable).
Why? Why would anyone turn off their local list if everyone else had it on they would just be screwing themselves. On the other hand (not sure how he meant it) if you could turn off other players' local view of your presence um wouldn't every single player do that, negating the use or existence of a local list at all?
I ment so you can choose not to be shown on other peoples Local list. ;)
locals used for a few things, hunting people down, be it in a combat situation, or to just find their avatar for a trade. honestly i think it should only work inside the cities, once you are outside in the wastelands it shouldnt work, just appear blank.
One thing I do when entering a crowded area is quickly target everyone nearby so I know the relative locations of everyone. So what about this...
You target people to get them to show up in your local list. This could last either until one of you zones or until you are mutually out of local range. The local list would also include clan and team members.
That sounds like a good idea and step in the right direction glok. I do the same scaning the area, and i agree with the idea that local could work in non PVP situations. this would help tradeskilling in the cities.
you must not play droners then. Nor hasve you come across the new local lag where you see names of people that were there after they left, masking new runners with old runner names.
Just some more bugs neocron 2 created that never existed in nc1.
I played a droner briefly with no problems regarding the people list and I have come across the strange switching of names. Fair enough, it's a bug. Does it affect my gameplay or experience in any way? No.
Maybe make it point of view, so you have to see some one to have their names appear. taking into account for distance of course.
What would be the point of that? If i'm already looking at them I can get a target box that will present their name and faction anyway and if i'm close enough for the runner to show up on the local list I can even see his ranking. Also, that would almost definately cause bugs.
Perhaps restrict it to show LE'd runners only if it's so much of a problem. Or Limit it to City sectors as part of the city planning and tracking system.
Maybe just remove it from warzones so when there is some real PvP going on it won't affect the battle.
I'd prefer the last one if KK decided to change it but mostly I'd prefer it to be left alone.
The locallist makes long and fair fights possible since it gives all participants the chance to get ready, thus fun for all.
right rookee.... well next time you get mugged by a guy IRL who screams "im comming for you right now, and im 10 step behind you" let me know lolz
Forget My Name
18-10-06, 21:26
I played a droner briefly with no problems regarding the people list and I have come across the strange switching of names. Fair enough, it's a bug. Does it affect my gameplay or experience in any way? No.
What would be the point of that? If i'm already looking at them I can get a target box that will present their name and faction anyway and if i'm close enough for the runner to show up on the local list I can even see his ranking. Also, that would almost definately cause bugs.
Perhaps restrict it to show LE'd runners only if it's so much of a problem. Or Limit it to City sectors as part of the city planning and tracking system.
Maybe just remove it from warzones so when there is some real PvP going on it won't affect the battle.
I'd prefer the last one if KK decided to change it but mostly I'd prefer it to be left alone.
when you drop a drone people with le's lose les and vice versa. its very annoying. So yes, it is game breaking when you shoot at unle'd people, only to realise that you were shooting at an le'd runner.
Man I gotta play a droner someday... the whole thing never appealed to me. Some damn gidget bot acting as you and heals right quick and is almost untargetable for most classes... wait why don't I play a droner????
Forget My Name
18-10-06, 21:36
Becasue once someone hits a drone, you cant fight back anymore. Its all fuzz. PLus, when they find our body, its a one hit death on droners.
I'd be happy if there were a way of refreshing the thing.
Or even if the auto refresh would happen twice as often, or over a shorter distance.
No thread hijacking guys........ keep on topic locallist is the issue, not droning
How about a totally customizable UI, like how guild wars has it, in that you can selectively show or hide any window/module and move it around?
And have locallist be like, people of same alliance (doy/city/mercs?) at a medium range and people of same faction at long range, but never show people of other alliances in locallist.
right rookee.... well next time you get mugged by a guy IRL who screams "im comming for you right now, and im 10 step behind you" let me know lolz
Well next time you see a mugger suddenly appear right next to you IRL due to clipping errors and netlag let me know. This IS a game after all.
Scanner Darkly
19-10-06, 09:19
hmm, so its fine to see that ppl hiding behind trees without any special affort ?
You may be looking at this wrong. It should take extra effort (spell/drugs/tech tool) to be temporarily removed from the local list, or achieve "radar invisibility".
Thus you could do this to remove yourself from the list when sneaking up on people and when hiding. Effect duration could maybe last as long as the rare drugs and yes there should be some sort of malus or drug flash like effect...
so only spys and infiltrator PE should be able to kill you when they come up from behind ?
this is no stealth for everyone thread
so - when there iis a ppl detection system in the WL installed - where is the swich in Hacknet or the controlltower to turn it of for a zone ?
Rookee man, you still dont get it. People are going for REALISM here, just because there is an error in the game mechanics (ie clipping), doesnt mean you need a "cheat" system (locallist) to see people comming up behind you. Not to mention the local list doesnt always work anyways further weakening your arguement. What you need to focus on if that is the reason for you wanting localist........ is improving netcode and removing the need for the cheat system to compensate. Think about what you REALLY want. not the quick solution
People are going for REALISM here
The bugs are not the only reason of course. Even if the errors were fixed, too much realism isn't necessarily good for a game, you have to consider the implications too.
NC isn't your ordinary FPS where you can easily respawn deathmatch-like and are back on track within a couple of seconds. I know it's much more thrilling to run around in PP3 without knowing what's waiting around the next corner, but consider that it can be very frustrating when you've been driving around the wastes for 10 minutes in order to complete a quest and then get mugged by some lame camper that's been waiting in a hidden spot somewhere. He shoots you in the back and kills you with three strikes because you're unbuffed. Hardly a chance of defending yourself. Just an example. With locallist, both of them get time for preparation, or one of them flees, maybe resulting in a hunt. Fair fights are fun for both, fierce ambushes only for one.
It's all about playability, not realism. Just my point of view.
I know this has already been said but how about no local list in the wastes only in the city? but, have it so it only effects non le'd players
I mean it cant be hard to make it so that when you pull your le out you lose your local list.That way the le's get to keep it, pvp'ers lose it :D
or just have it so nobody has a local list outside the city or at all :lol:
EDIT:- @ rookee
I see your point about being ambushed it just seems a shame that you know someone is around you when you haven't seen them.
yeah i agree rookee brought up some really good points about the local list, and im half heartedly on his side. But I still like no local
You need to stop thinking of it as a game feature and instead think of it as a futuristic upgrade. In such a hostile enviroment surely it would be beneficial to have a device that lets you know who's close enough to stab you in the back.
It also currently gives a rifle Spy/PE an advantage over distance that they deserve.
Another point is, you can't really have a physical awareness or hear runners approaching so the people list makes up for it. If you really need to sneak up on someone then stealth ffs. If you can't then you're in the wrong class in the first place.
You could also look at it as a realistic thing if you assume brain implants also have interference detection which picks up on the elecromagnetic signature of the imps in a nearby runner's head. :)
Doc Holliday
20-10-06, 07:34
locals used for a few things, hunting people down, be it in a combat situation, or to just find their avatar for a trade. honestly i think it should only work inside the cities, once you are outside in the wastelands it shouldnt work, just appear blank.
Perfect idea. i was thinking the same. Turn it off in the wastes and on in cities.
Probably be a decent ish idea for it to be on for team mates too. just in case you cant see the team icon on someone for some reason ie your a bit thick.
Dribble Joy
20-10-06, 08:50
Cities does have one flaw, in that sneaking in (as opposed to a raid) would become less viable.
I'm not sure which way I would want it to go. The local list clearly has it's uses, but from a realism point of view (and creating a greater sense of the intended atmosphere) it would be better for it to go.
Maybe LEs (whereever) and in designated trade zones (HQs, TH, P1/DoY-CC, MB and Canyon).
And for a little realism, allies too.
consider that it can be very frustrating when you've been driving around the wastes for 10 minutes in order to complete a quest and then get mugged by some lame camper that's been waiting in a hidden spot somewhere. He shoots you in the back and kills you with three strikes because you're unbuffed. Hardly a chance of defending yourself. Just an example.drop your guard and expect the consiquences i say.. you have some good points, but it's just lazy to not be prepared at all times, plus it's the feeling that you have to be on guard, on edge, ready for a fight at all times which gives atmosphere to the game.
i say remove local list.. at least for a while (testserver?), but fix things like trees etc so droners can't hide in half of them :/ (could just make it public that it's a bannable offence till you have time to fix it)
Im not against the local completely, for those of you who say its realistic to have a detection system you are COMLETELY right. Just make it a tool like everything else. Make someone have to spec for it, or have to turn it on........... just like stealth. And i agree they need to introduce sound better so that you can hear someone comming up behind you based on speed. Kind of like some of the spy games out there (cant think of the damn PS2 game, based on tom clansy book..........) anyways yeah i would love that
but consider that it can be very frustrating when you've been driving around the wastes for 10 minutes in order to complete a quest and then get mugged by some lame camper that's been waiting in a hidden spot somewhere. He shoots you in the back and kills you with three strikes because you're unbuffed. Hardly a chance of defending yourself.
... Welcome to Neocron? :) That's kinda your fault for running around unbuffed :) Always be prepared.
Local list maybe it needs some reworking, I dunno I think it's ok as it is.
But some ideas... I would say definitely keep it in safe zones. And how about in safe zones show the name without targeting above allied people, if they are within what is currently the local list distance... or maybe even everybody, could be helpful? (I know it's not a huge effort to target people but it doesn't effect pvp since it's a safe zone so why not). Could be a horrible idea, I dunno.
Local list maybe something to change in the future but for now I say leave it & let the devs concentrate all effort on the balancing.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.