View Full Version : When 2.2's here...
(over in another thread)
There needs to be some sort of scheme set up that encourages people who have quit to come back.
Yes, definitely! If you're going to let past players play for a month / however long when 2.2 is released, how about changing your terms and conditions to let people (who are taking up this hypothetical offer) know that in future, you will email them details of certain promotions, etc. until such a time they mail unsubscribe@neocron.com from their official email address?
What would be REALLY sexy is an updated T&C on the forum that 'retired' people had to accept (once!) before reading, that allowed KK to send details of game developments and offers to past customers. Whack a similar message on the launcher that told existing players they were agreeing to updated terms and conditions by playing.
The 2.1 free time was an awesome offer which took the community by surprise and had us cheering, created an enormous buzz and whilst lots of people were told about it via friends, I remember you said that you weren't permitted to spam all past customers about it. Imagine if you could send out a mail to the legions of past customers saying
"Hello, here's the a link to download Neocron 2.2, as a past preferred customer, we invite you to play your old account for one month totally free. Your password was (whatever). Should you wish to continue playing after this trial, re-activate your account. If not, don't do anything - you won't be charged, and your account will be de-activated at the end of this trial."
P.S. How about getting the marketing boys and girls to come up with a sexy alternative/addition to the suffix "2.2"? If people have looked in briefly in the past and seen 2.1, then clicked elsewhere they may not realise we're now 2.2 and move on :angel:
Sounds good idea to me, wud bring alot of ppl back into the game
Sounds good tbh would be a idea to get those old school players back
There will be such an reactivation event for Evol 2.2 like we had it with Evol 2.1 to allow people to take a look at the changes. Of course this only counts for inactive accounts, not banned ones. ;)
cgotheridge
10-10-06, 21:35
I do agree that some kind of email to people would get alot more people back for the 2.2 who dont follow the game anymore
I do agree that some kind of email to people would get alot more people back for the 2.2 who dont follow the game anymore
Doubt it.
Even all those people i know who hate NC these days and permanently keep talking shit about it still read the forums, occaisonally check the game out again and constantly talk about it. Even now they can't get away from it. Give em free time and they're gonna try it again. No need for emails there.
Neocrack ftw. :lol:
Neocrack ftw. :lol:
Indeed, and the email would be like that man who keeps offering the cigarette when you've already quit :D
It can't do more harm than good. "Download this 1.XGB game now and get 6 days free" (if they check late) or "Download this now and get one month free" sound like two totally different propositions to me.
Bishop Yutani
10-10-06, 22:37
P.S. How about getting the marketing boys and girls to come up with a sexy alternative/addition to the suffix "2.2"?
How about Neocron 2.2 Beta? :lol: sorry couldnt resist
Agreed, there should definately be a marketing blitz beyond the free month thing (which is great, dont get me wrong)
Maybe this would be a great time to get those youtube videos up. Did anyone salvage them from SynergyXR?
Well I for one WOULD come back to try it out, and if I like it continue to pay & play.
Maybe this would be a great time to get those youtube videos up. Did anyone salvage them from SynergyXR?
OT:Sorry I didn't, there was just too much to grab, and also there is the issue of bandwidth.
Someone should start a NeoTube project website. (A website dedicated just to Neocron videos)
OT:Sorry I didn't, there was just too much to grab, and also there is the issue of bandwidth.
Someone should start a NeoTube project website. (A website dedicated just to Neocron videos)
euhhh, I would but i cba to getting it hosted etc,
Id gaver and make a bunch of links, and organize them into sub categories etc, but the Site itself would be useless
Bishop Yutani
17-10-06, 15:24
how about making a torrent, pantho?
Na, its not bandwidth, Host them on youtube, and then Link to them-
Its the fact,
Id love to get a collection of every single PVP video, and ADvertising trailer, and make a webpage, splitting them into PVP , Trailers, OP Fights, Events etc,
I just really cba making the site lol
Forget My Name
17-10-06, 16:42
Just by your posts, you all seem short sighted.
Getting the players back is easy, they do that themselves, KEEPING them is a different matter all together.
Logan Tyrus
17-10-06, 22:55
I'd like to come back one day, but tbh the biggest problem is server pops.
So its a big vicous circle. Im assuming other people are like me, don't play coz theres no one to play with, so theres no one to play with... :(
Oh and credit cards for the 10 day trial. Let me use Maestro :mad:
Well unless 2.2 has a new engine I wouldn't hold ya breath!
I'd like to come back one day, but tbh the biggest problem is server pops.
So its a big vicous circle. Im assuming other people are like me, don't play coz theres no one to play with, so theres no one to play with... :(
Oh and credit cards for the 10 day trial. Let me use Maestro :mad:
This is the thing the amount of people that ask about server pops if they all log in neocron wouldn’t be low on people soooooooo many people ask if the server pops are higher for fuck sake this really pissers me off tbh. :mad:
Just think how many threads and posts that have started with or had server pops in them.
JUST LOG IN IF YOU WONT THE SERVER WILL NEVER BE HIGHER POPS!!!!!
Apocalypsox
18-10-06, 06:39
been tellin people that for years Napper. But the lazy gits cant pay a measily 15$ (i guess they technically cant anyways) to log in themselves...WE NEED BETTER PAYMENT OPTIONS!!!
Or just ones that let people hand over their money. :rolleyes:
Forget My Name
18-10-06, 07:10
This game has TOO much against it to keep players, and KK knows it. They aren't dumb. Here are some of the negatives I have seen over the past 4 years that are the ROOT cause for pushing players away.
1) Bugs. For whatever reason, this game was programed horridly. And we are stuck with it. This game has more bugs than a new york city apartment. The constant crashes and syncs drive players away who want stability. This will never change until KK comes out with their Irata III along with a new engine and coding. Losing your 5th vehicle to sync bugs piss many people off.
2) Servers. Servers cant handle anything more than around 500 people before the game becomes super unstable for those online. KK knows this, and this is why they dont bother to advertise. Why advertise to 500k people when you can only support 2k across 4 servers? Many of you werent around for plaza 1 in 2002 when you couldnt move due to having 40 people in local. Servers go hadn in hadn with the bug issues.
3) Learning Curve. Ok, most people on the planet are average, and what that means is that average is glue eating average. A game like WoW? Everyone understand a fantasy setting. Pick up a sword, level off goblins, thats it. This game is Alien to most people. I just spent an hour explaining to a new person how the stats on a gun work properly. He was blown away at how complicated such a simple thing should be.
4) Carebearism. Simpy put, this "hardcore" game was toned down over years to attempt to attract the main stream mmo player. But one thing reaKKtor doesnt realise is that the mainstream wallet playing MMOs are fantasy players. Sci fi setting, once again, is alien to the type of person who just levels off of goblins with a sword all day long. This game tried to be something its not, player friendly. In doing so, the very players KK was trying to NET left for WoW, and the very players KK alienated, the PvPers, left for other games as well as they saw their game become a pussy pink shell of what it once was. Carebarism is fine if the game is MEANT to attarct that kind of player, but dont turn a Horror Flick into a Family Film. You cant stick a carebear next to Freddy or Jason and expect them to get along. Its either ALL Horror or Family. Dont try to please everyone, because everyone will leave. Stick with your target audience.
The REAL players stuck it through the first three issues. These players were the ones who loved the game. the fourth issue is what drove those who stuck it through the first issue away. KK is a business, and we are wallets, but customer satisfaction is a MUST. unless players are happy using your product, they will go to other games. This is the exact reason why many players DREAD neocron 2.2. They fear that the game will become more useless as the game will attempt to cater to a different audience than the current base.
5) Confusion. This one is minor. People fail to understand why a researcher gets only one skill level for his trade, while a Constructor gets exp across teh board. Also, why does REPAIRING give you BETTER exp than your own trade? A researcher levels faster repairing a vehicle than he does cloning blue prints. Makes NO SENSE. This is why players DRONE to cap, then switch to a tradeskill, or even pistols or rifles. Make exp gain EQUAL across the board for the different aspects of the game so players get rewarded for using their trade. Dont make it so a pistol user has to repair a rhino and drone so he can BEOCME a pistol user!
i have one thing to say to you why has neocron always got players coming back to play it ??????
Forget My Name
18-10-06, 08:03
i have one thing to say to you why has neocron always got players coming back to play it ??????
I have one thig to say to you. Why do teh players leave in the first place? If everything was so great, players wouldnt leave period.
People make Neocron seem so great because People always come back. Um, thats only due ot them LEAVING in the first place. And I am taljking about the bulk that leave due to disgust with the game for whatever reason, not those who simply cannot afford the money or time to play.
Its like saying "People keep coming to me cuz I am a doctor and I can cure cancer!" without realizing "I am a doctor and I put cancer in people to begin with". Get me?
Saying the game has a positive because of 50 negatives really isnt anything to be proud of.
Like I said, getting players is EASY. Keeping them is what KK needs to focus on.
There will be such an reactivation event for Evol 2.2 like we had it with Evol 2.1 to allow people to take a look at the changes. Of course this only counts for inactive accounts, not banned ones. ;) Let's just pray that the bugs have been ironed out by then, 2.1's reload 'bug' (i know it wasn't actually a bug because someone must have change all the reload times to fit the new animations) probably drove away more people than 2.1 brought in.
Darq[Terra]
18-10-06, 10:01
This game has TOO much against it to keep players, and KK knows it. They aren't dumb. Here are some of the negatives I have seen over the past 4 years that are the ROOT cause for pushing players away.
Just a comment regarding your reasons ...
Take a look at Anarchy Online: it's older than NC and is still using its original engine, has just as many bug issues, is just as complicated as NC, is set in a Sci-Fi world, and would be regarded by this community as a carebear game, yet its player base is so much larger NC's with thousands online. This goes against everything you just stated as a reason for NC's failure/decline, with the exception of servers not being able to handle the load, which really doesn't even factor in at the moment given the extremely low server pops in NC.
It's what makes this game unique that drives into more of a niche and makes it harder for it to maintain populations: The FPS style interface is limiting to those without good connections and drives them away, the focus on PVP and restrictions on those who do not participate (namely the inability to join a clan), and unfortunately, I must add the lack of content depth (there is a lot less to do in NC beyond PVP and tradeskills, which gets boring after a while). Personally, I think the restriction on LE'd players preventing them from joining a clan is this game's biggest handicap. It forces new players into isolation (speaking as a new player myself) because most people would prefer not to PVP and risk losing items when they haven't yet learned the ropes of the game, and the number 1 source of this kind of information in an MMO is typically whatever clan you join up with. I probably would have lost interest and quit already if it weren't for the 1 person I've met here who's been kind enough to 'adopt' me as an unofficial clan member. Sure it's going to increase the number of people that play but don't PVP, but inevitably quite a few will participate because that is the main focus of the game and that in the end grows the PVP community (not to mention it will increase server pops, which will attract more people, and will also create a larger tradeskiller community to assist the PVP one).
The community is the backbone of any MMO, and NC is no exception. Just look at the particpation of visiting vets for evidence: They don't play anymore, but still come here to touch base with the community. Clans are not just an integral part of building a community, they are the biggest, most essential part, and when you restrict that, you hurt the player base.
Anyway, just my 2 cents.
Forget My Name
18-10-06, 15:53
AO was never billed as a niche PvP game like Neocron.
mmofps is alien to most people. most people are used to click combat.
Plus, thousands online means people always have something to do and people to hang with. A game which never allows more than 500 people to play will always suffer from population issues, which in turn creates an atmosphere where people get bored fast when their clan has 150 people in it, but only 10 active players.
I have one thig to say to you. Why do teh players leave in the first place? If everything was so great, players wouldnt leave period.
Actually there are 1000+ reasons for someone to leave, but only 1 to come back, and that is because he misses the game, or that, after trying the competition he realised that the game is good afterall...
Over the time we have debated and debated so much why this game has the populations it has now. And it wasn't just one thing. But 100. Where do I start from? Payment? Bugs? Para? Hybrids? Sync?
Most of these have been addressed over the years to the point possible. Remember those dreaded rollbacks we were suffering from time to time?
Or crashing while in vehicles?
We can't compare NC with AO. One is free, the other is not. If you make NC free, you will get population boost thats for sure.
Darq[Terra]
19-10-06, 09:06
AO was never billed as a niche PvP game like Neocron.
mmofps is alien to most people. most people are used to click combat.
That's my point, the design of NC itself greatly limits the game and puts it into a niche market, rather than the reasons your originally pointed out. And with current server pops far below your assumed max realistic load, that can't really be taken into account as a valid reason rright now. If the pops were nearer that max and it was causing problems, then that would be a valid point.
We can't compare NC with AO. One is free, the other is not. If you make NC free, you will get population boost thats for sure.
I was comparing the two on the grounds that FMN was arguing were responsible for the decline of the game as evidence of NC's faltering. AO hasn't always had the free basic accounts, and prior to their existence, its user base was still far larger than NC's. Besides, the majority of the freebie accounts are alt accounts of payinf subscribers. I'm just pulling a number out of the air here based on my many years experience in AO, but I would guess that less than 8% of the freebie accounts belonged to non-paying members.
On a side note, what if KK did do something similar, where you could have a free account, but would be unable level beyond */40, or remove your LE, or maybe disable the Implant window entirely until you were a subscriber. It would be a great way to increase the population was well as bring in paying subscribers. But before something like that could be done, I think it still needs to be changed so that LE'd people can join clans.
/40s are a waste of time, the players may as well not exist if they are that level from my point of view.
Reasons for NC's low pop?
- Lack of koreans
- Years of crappy patching
- FREs
- Delays
- Inbalance
- KK refusing to deal with the stuff they fuck up
Anyway, NC can only hold 80 players per zone (fact) without crashing and it probably gets very unstable when you approach 80
I dont believe at all that LEd people should be allowed to join clans. You dont need to be in a clan to avoid isolation as a new player, you just need to visit popular spots for levelling etc.
I have actually resubscribed to AO lately, and I havent noticed the great population there once was, it seems to be split a lot between the expansions and classic.
I'm hoping these NC1 emulators surface at some point, preferably with the ruleset around retail start with LE restrictions and item drops, there was a lot more suspense back then and that is what I enjoyed.
Strangely, as much as I complained at the time, I think I preferred it when freezer weapons para'd the target, there were less PPUs and it was possible to still win at pvp whilst frozen (especially if you've managed to get a burst or two off while the opponent was freezing/changing weapons) - if you're on your own now and get para'd, it's pretty obvious you will be fighting a ppu and another player.
Forget My Name
19-10-06, 18:58
']That's my point, the design of NC itself greatly limits the game and puts it into a niche market, rather than the reasons your originally pointed out. And with current server pops far below your assumed max realistic load, that can't really be taken into account as a valid reason rright now. If the pops were nearer that max and it was causing problems, then that would be a valid point.
I was comparing the two on the grounds that FMN was arguing were responsible for the decline of the game as evidence of NC's faltering. AO hasn't always had the free basic accounts, and prior to their existence, its user base was still far larger than NC's. Besides, the majority of the freebie accounts are alt accounts of payinf subscribers. I'm just pulling a number out of the air here based on my many years experience in AO, but I would guess that less than 8% of the freebie accounts belonged to non-paying members.
On a side note, what if KK did do something similar, where you could have a free account, but would be unable level beyond */40, or remove your LE, or maybe disable the Implant window entirely until you were a subscriber. It would be a great way to increase the population was well as bring in paying subscribers. But before something like that could be done, I think it still needs to be changed so that LE'd people can join clans.
"My" max load isnt assumed buddy. If you were there at release, you would know that any server that hits near 480+ starts to crumble big time. Also, server pops right now have a percentage. When the server says there are 12% on, you can physically count the people online through a city term and searching by faction. Try it out and see how much 100% would be.
Neocron's reason for being un-popular?
Well, firstly it's an old style game. It's sharp, there's no soft nor smooth edges. Games have moved on, both in terms of precision, and feel - And it's more or less down to the engine. Players these days like to be lazy, they want everything you can expect from being in the world (and rightly so). In the old days people coped with bugs, it was part of games evolving.
Players don't want to have to cope and fight with elements of the game they aren't ment to, bugs for example.
Here's another example: Vehicles - Not only are there a large amount of zoning bugs, but it's just so 'unpleasant' to use vehicles. They cost a lot and take quite a bit of time and energy, but what's worse is the crappy enter/exit system. If you're taking fire and in a hurry to hop in your vehicle you're confronted with a tiny very fiddle box of which position to choose, and it can only be operated by mouse.
The world size/scale also seems to be an issue. The streets are absolutely tiny yet we're led to beleive it's A) a city and B) has lots of people living in it. Where are they? Why aren't there any roads?
To be honest, I think most of it's the engine/3d, some of the weapon system and small things like the UI that looks better than it functions.
lol, NC city is like a bunch of connected quake maps rather than an actual city :D
Release date NC evo 2.2:
Quater 1 4th Millennium?
Dribble Joy
19-10-06, 22:19
NC's weakness is what attracts most of the people that love it, and unfortunately that's not what most other people want. Obviously there are issues with payment, bugs (the level of which isn't that much worse that some very popular mmos), and content; but it will never be huge simply because it is not what WoW or EVE is.
And frankly I like it that way, I'd rather play NC without all the glue eaters (or at least the lower level of glue eaters) than NC turned into something else just to pull the punters.
Darq[Terra]
19-10-06, 22:47
/40s are a waste of time, the players may as well not exist if they are that level from my point of view.
You're not looking ahead. /40 gives a new player enough lead into the game to get a character developed, but leaves them in a place where they will want to subscribe to take it further because it is a "useless" stopping point.
numb/FMN: I understand what you're saying about the "caps" on server usability, but for this moment in time, the populations are way too low for that to be an issue. Plus, you're assuming those limitations are still in place, or can't be easily overcome. Hardware performance has come a long ways in the last 4 years and the cost is relatively minimal. If the subscriber base were to increase, it would easily cover the cost of upgrading the servers to better support user loads. A much more ambitious solution too would be to split up parts of the game and run them on separate servers for the purpose of load balancing. For the record, I was in NC1 beta and do remember the days of 700+ people on a server, but I don't recall having an real performance issues relating to populations (granted my memory is imperfect and I didn't explore all aspects of the game).
And numb, regarding LE'd players and clans: Yes, you can work around it and befriend others, but is that really the best solution? No other game that I have experienced restricts paying members from being more involved in the community aspects of the game such as NC does, and I guarantee it effects the willingness of new players to stick around. In any other game, one of the first things a player looks to do after learning the basics, is to join a clan in order to expand their knowledge and community support resources. You can befriend individual people as you've said, but it isn't the same thing. Clan members are typically more willing to help out their own with questions and resources than just some person you met when looking for a hunting group. Ask yourself this: If a clanmate asks you if they can borrow a nice weapon you have sitting in your GG for an alt or something, aren't you more willing to say 'Sure' than you would be to some individual player you met while hunting? There is a bond between clanmates that is taken away from LE'd players, and this is exactly what isolates them from the community and makes the game less enjoyable for them. You can go out a google for reviews on NC and find this same argument coming from a number of game review sites. It does severely limit the player-community experience and forces a smaller community.
Allowing LE'd clans can help to bring about a larger playerbase and in the end, more PVP'ers. I've seen people make the stupid argument that such an action will only create situations where LE'd "spies" can go into OPs and report information without threat from Non-LE'd players, but that has nothing to do with clans and happens just as easily now. There is no legitimate reason to block LE'd players from clans, it was just an assinine idea from KK that was implemented without much forethought on the effect it would eventually have on the community/playerbase.
Dominus: Yes, I agree in that the graphics are limiting and do have their effect on the interests of new players. I've never liked the player models and thought they were too 'blocky' and ugly, not to mention the lack of skins for the player models.
However, I have played games that are older than NC and which look uglier, but still have larger, more active, and far more dedicated playerbases simply because the people that ran the game understood the importance of community building. KK fails in this regard in a variety of areas, from the restrictions on LE'd players to join clans, to their strict stance on not allowing players to make custom HUD/Map skins. If KK let the players feel like they have a greater stake in the game and its community, they are going to want to stick around longer and be more active.
Darq[Terra]
20-10-06, 01:32
']to their strict stance on not allowing players to make custom HUD/Map skins
Well now, how about that, KK went and made it okay to modify the HUD today. ^^
agreed other games dont have the problem with new players not being able to join clans.. but other games dont have stupid things like LE's in the first place.. if there was no such thing as an LE newbies wouldn't care about losing it, and i really don't think people would spend all their time ganking newbies, if they do, i'll spend my time ganking them so they can't =]
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