View Full Version : [CbT]Exp gain IN PvP? Good or bad. Discuss
Doc Holliday
25-09-06, 11:07
Ok first of all i cant find a poll option but maybe my access is restricted im not totally sure. O_o
2nd if this is absolutely ludicrous and totally impossible to actually implement can the mods close this with a post to say that this is the case. ;)
Ok. now i can get on. Guys i know lots of people bemoan alot of systems within the game which are lame ie the LE thing amongst others. Please leave those flames out of this to a certain degree and just think for a second about this idea.
Would it be cool to gain experience from killing OTHER Players? I dont just mean the meager amount of xp gained when you get your ass blasted and your con goes up (true story. i got a con level at an op fight) but an actual real gain you could recognise. I thought of a similar system to how the xp gain works killing mobs. Combat rank would govern what is and isnt worth-while to kill same as pvm. Ie some ranks would be greyed out to you so it stops killing noobs of any faction because you want to gain xp and you know its easy.
No xp gain from killing allied factions ( obviously to not encourage allied killing) only enemy factions. (this would suck for mercs having only 2 but please think about it all on a big picture. not just yell omg u suck you no love mercs. )
I know the cash amount you gain from killing a monster used to decrease if you damaged it and zoned out of the zone to heal then back in to finish the job. This was a while ago of course. I dont know whether the xp gain was affected in all honesty but i think in this scenario it should do.
Reason being it gives another incentive to actually fight out in the open for players as they have the loot to claim from a belt and also the xp gain from killing mr enemy runner. double the bonus. Theoretically this might help to reduce the zone line whoring and "hopefully" people will fight a little more properly and in the open in a win/lose situation not a win or run for the zone line.
Ok downsides is well hmmmm it will increase pvp at all times. (is this a bad thing? :lol: )
PPUs may become even more depended on but in my eyes with the balanceing project coming i would figure ppus get a reduction in power and with the right skill/weapons they would be killable. Add to this the high ranks they can achieve it would be good for the person who kills them as the gain would again be worth it.
It also could serve to promote fights instead of discourage them as at least if one clan gets thoroughly served in an op fight or any other engagement they can at least go well we put up a fight. we lost a bit in cash (gr fee) and condition of imps but we gained xp for the members too. it could promote a more active and violent neocron world.
This obviously would be aimed at the pvp happy people. Please as requested leave the le whines and any other name calling/clan bashing/general idiotism out of the thread and lets keep it civil.
Thank you for reading.
I think runners would get a few friends together and have a gankfest to get their xp up. It's already done for faction symp.
There should be good drewards for killing runners on the NCPD list though.
Heavyporker
25-09-06, 11:16
Jodo's right, though.
But even the NCPD hitlist still can be abused... think sympbitches that just kill a couple allied NPCs and they're in the red, ripe for exploiting.
Bolting everything down to the point where it wouldn't be easily exploited would be too cumbersome, methinks.
The only way round that I can see would be GM held tournaments. If they're able to dish out xp that is. Even then, it's still not a great alternative.
I suppose if CA posted missions for enemy runners names that are currently online then it might be more difficult to take advantage of. Dunno how difficult that would be to set up though.
Doc Holliday
25-09-06, 11:36
I think runners would get a few friends together and have a gankfest to get their xp up. It's already done for faction symp.
There should be good drewards for killing runners on the NCPD list though.
Ok fair point jodo. i remember the gank fests in nc2 beta. teams of red sl people would surge through doy killing everything allied or not. i gave up with beta 5 mins in to it because of this.
I thought about it happening again with a team of people surging through what ever sector on a raid but then all the opposition has to do is rally a team themselves and fight back. everyone loves a good fight still no?
besides you cant tell me it doesnt still happen like that gain or no gain.
HP. symp bitches would be irrelevant because the 0/2 rank would be insignificant to the capped player. read what i wrote about the combat rank governing what you kill and what you gain. Same as pvm.
I don't mean that type of gankfest. I mean killing each other in the same way as sympbitches. I've seen high level runners used for this also.
All it would be is a group of friends shooting crap out of one another and either spawning at the GR next to them or using a PPU to rez them. This is possible with BF2 if there are enough of you to chip in and hire a server together.
a) you already gain xp in PvP
b) making the gain significant would leave the door wide open for abuse
bad idea.
a) you already gain xp in PvP
b) making the gain significant would leaves the door wide open for abuse
bad idea.
Yea i got my last PSI lvl from PVP on my PE lol .... How fucked itt hats...
Team XP from the Con and STR XP my other m8's PE was taking in damage...
a) you already gain xp in PvP
b) making the gain significant would leaves the door wide open for abuse
bad idea.
correct, this idea is exploitable and no option for future implemetations.
Roc-a-fella
25-09-06, 16:20
correct, this idea is exploitable and no option for future implemetations.
yeah cause this would be soooo hard to change. Simple make a high ranked (capped ranked runner of a certain class) give a good amt. of XP like a chaser or something. Then, when you die/ are rezzed your rank is temporarily lowered so this wouldnt be exploitable. Oh, sorry. This probobly wouldnt work with the netcode or something like that. :angel:
yeah cause this would be soooo hard to change.
It simply aint worth the effort.. if you want to level, go kill a chaser.
There's more important stuff to fix tbh.
No offence but this is the most stupid idea/thread i've seen on here in a very long time.. i know doc holiday isn't a known bad-guy/exploiter but surely you can see there is NO WAY this wouldn't be used to exploit, if it was anyone with even a slightly contraversial reputation it would be blatent they were requesting it purely to abuse it themselves..
KK might be silly at some times but they're definately not that dumb =]
complete waste of time =x
Bishop Yutani
25-09-06, 16:53
Its not a bad idea just because it's exploitable. It's actually a good idea, it just needs to be designed correctly.
Its not a bad idea just because it's exploitable. It's actually a good idea, it just needs to be designed correctly.
agreed. Perhaps a limit on xp gained from any one runner in a specific time period?
Roc-a-fella
25-09-06, 17:13
It simply aint worth the effort.. if you want to level, go kill a chaser.
There's more important stuff to fix tbh.
So what? Yeah, theres more important stuff to fix. But whats gonna stop them from changing the model of a nailgun 73 times before they fix the synch/zone/clipping bugs that have BEEN HERE SINCE THE GAME WAS IN FREAKING BETA.
So what? Yeah, theres more important stuff to fix. But whats gonna stop them from changing the model of a nailgun 73 times before they fix the synch/zone/clipping bugs that have BEEN HERE SINCE THE GAME WAS IN FREAKING BETA.
Its called lag, happens in other online game, games like quake don't have people clipping around corners so much but they don't have as much going on as neocron. In neocron they need to keep to a limit of information being sent to and from the server from peoples computers. Theres alot going on when 10 people are trying to kill each other with difference weapons in this game, damage calculations resists, run speed, weapon stats damn so much.
Imo they have done a great job in make this game the way it is, still room for improvement though but if they do fix the clipping then other problems can appear. Like even more lag as more packets are being sent for position updates.
Roc-a-fella
25-09-06, 19:31
Its called lag, happens in other online game, games like quake don't have people clipping around corners so much but they don't have as much going on as neocron. In neocron they need to keep to a limit of information being sent to and from the server from peoples computers. Theres alot going on when 10 people are trying to kill each other with difference weapons in this game, damage calculations resists, run speed, weapon stats damn so much.
Imo they have done a great job in make this game the way it is, still room for improvement though but if they do fix the clipping then other problems can appear. Like even more lag as more packets are being sent for position updates.
So your gonna say anything above a generic FPS will have clipping only because there are "alot of things going on". Well last i knew EVERY-OTHER-MMORPG DOES NOT HAVE THIS PROBLEM. They were also, however, smart enough to make their own code instead of BUYING A GENERIC FPS GAMES NETCODE AND USING IT. Kinda sad, but neocron is a good game aside from all the bs of them just not caring about the stability. And dont even give me some shit like "Oh they are working on it" They have been working on it since beta. I havent seen much progress yet.
edit; And also... If a game company is so ignorant to the fact that their "code" or whatever is preventing them from fixing bugs that EVERYONE gets and that have been in the game since day 1 then i dont think that company deserves to or for that fact will even do well.... Example.....
edit2; im not not trying to bitch about bugs im just saying you cant justify WALKING THROUGH A FREAKING WALL AND/OR THE FLOOR by just saying "Oh theres alot going on". I have NEVER played another MMORPG where i have seen someone come through a goddamn wall while shooting at me. Or keep shooting at me even when i am around a corner. And every other game i played for some ODD REASON... Has a hell of alot more players then NC and isnt even broken down into zones to "control lag"
Mighty Max
25-09-06, 19:49
Is this a fix the position-extrapolation thread? (Which is only related but not caused by a bad netcode, fyi)
It is not wise to implement a unsafe feature and hope that you can stop abuse down with some taping. Security through obscurity does not work.
im not not trying to bitch
Really? Maybe some more capital letters would get that point across more effectively :lol:
Roc-a-fella
25-09-06, 21:37
[ edited ]
So your gonna say anything above a generic FPS will have clipping only because there are "alot of things going on". Well last i knew EVERY-OTHER-MMORPG DOES NOT HAVE THIS PROBLEM. They were also, however, smart enough to make their own code instead of BUYING A GENERIC FPS GAMES NETCODE AND USING IT. Kinda sad, but neocron is a good game aside from all the bs of them just not caring about the stability. And dont even give me some shit like "Oh they are working on it" They have been working on it since beta. I havent seen much progress yet.
edit; And also... If a game company is so ignorant to the fact that their "code" or whatever is preventing them from fixing bugs that EVERYONE gets and that have been in the game since day 1 then i dont think that company deserves to or for that fact will even do well.... Example.....
edit2; im not not trying to bitch about bugs im just saying you cant justify WALKING THROUGH A FREAKING WALL AND/OR THE FLOOR by just saying "Oh theres alot going on". I have NEVER played another MMORPG where i have seen someone come through a goddamn wall while shooting at me. Or keep shooting at me even when i am around a corner. And every other game i played for some ODD REASON... Has a hell of alot more players then NC and isnt even broken down into zones to "control lag"
I don't know what dream world you are living in but yeah it could do with improvement, but making things work like they do in neocron is not as simple as it looks.
Ever tryed putting together a a 3D model for a game, I did for one of my favourite games operation flashpoint. Its a pain in the in FUCKING ARSE, even when i had it done which was a weapon it was massively to big in game and i had to shrink it which casued more problems. Then theres the coding to make it work, i gave up at this point since no sites could explain how to get the pistol animation working correctly. So basicly I rushed this pistol and could only get it to fire like a sniper rifle, the point is its no easy thing.
You can't just make something out of thin air !! and you can't just fix things, they would have done it years ago if they could FFS.
/edit I'm not bothered to much about the cliping, its only the MB zoneline whore shits that are, I'm more bothered about balance and game play as a whole, the game is not about MB zoneline, its about having fun pvping where ever.
Roc-a-fella
26-09-06, 00:10
Yep im flaming because game companies arent supposed to do their job. Which is make a game fun and playable for the customer. Yeah yeah then why dont i leave? Hmmmmm
Yep im flaming because game companies arent supposed to do their job. Which is make a game fun and playable for the customer. Yeah yeah then why dont i leave? Hmmmmm
We are playing neocron not Quake, or CS which are pure FPS those games are boring imo, in neocron we have character setups which must be taken into account when we pvp. Infact they always affect our game play, I remember having some arguement with nid about how EVE-online is more than just a naval sim which is how he put it. Theres a shit load going on in that game also, resists play a big part in that game as well as neocron, there is still alot of lag in eve but the difference is they can get away with it. Because its based in space and there is nothing to clip into, games like quake are just point and shoot with a weapon.
All the game needs to know is the weapon the person used and then the damage is done to your character there is no skills to work out, thats why its so fast and perfect !!!
Or Would you rather exclude the 56k modem users and lag them to shit and raise the price to play the game?
Yep im flaming because game companies arent supposed to do their job. Which is make a game fun and playable for the customer. Yeah yeah then why dont i leave? HmmmmmTake a small break, let your emotions settle down a bit.
On a sidenote, other MMORPGs suffer from net related problems as well. The impact of that is usually less, though, because FPS combat requires many more things to function properly, faster and more responsive than other MMORPGs do. There is only so much of the underlying technical problems you can cover up. I bet many of your faultless MMORPGs will run into problems big time if the combat would be changed to FPS style. This doesn't mean NC is perfect, but neither are the other MMORPGs, they are cooking with water like everyone else does :)
Take a small break, let your emotions settle down a bit.
On a sidenote, other MMORPGs suffer from net related problems as well. The impact of that is usually less, though, because FPS combat requires many more things to function properly, faster and more responsive than other MMORPGs do. There is only so much of the underlying technical problems you can cover up. I bet many of your faultless MMORPGs will run into problems big time if the combat would be changed to FPS style. This doesn't mean NC is perfect, but neither are the other MMORPGs, they are cooking with water like everyone else does :)
Explained better right there.
I have played many other mmo the only one i can think of that might beat this game in fps is WWII online, FOMK god that game = failure so it don't count. FOMK is also badly done at least in neocron they had the wepons firing in a straight line in first person eh..
I am sure all the coders at kk who currently or who have in the past worked on the game would love to be able to present us with a complete fix for the long running probs.
I can imagine the sence of achievement that would give them would far surpass any praise we could offer.
But to fix these problems it would most probably be easier to rewrite the game from scratch than sift through each line of code trying to track down and fix them.
And a rewrite is just not going to ever happen.
So i'm sure the guys are doing their best to reduce the impact of these problems, with what is an old engine and netcode.
The game is not even anywhere near as buggy as NC1....
I hardly ever crash these days, even when logged in for very long periods, biggest problems I get are inventoy bugs random syncs sometimes but hardly any game killers. So with that shit patched up now they need to make the game balanced and fun to play, that means OP wars as well.
The game is not even anywhere near as buggy as NC1....
I hardly ever crash these days, even when logged in for very long periods, biggest problems I get are inventoy bugs random syncs sometimes but hardly any game killers. So with that shit patched up now they need to make the game balanced and fun to play, that means OP wars as well.
Agreed. The only times I seem to fatal now are when logging out and occasionaly when I'm in trade with someone. The latter can be quite annoying but the pro's have always outweighed the con's for me in this game.
Nice to see so many people defending Neocron and KK for a change.
Roc-a-fella
26-09-06, 04:35
If people actually read posts instead of singling out certain sentances and trying to get all hyphy talking shit trying to teach me something... Then the world would be a better place. Amen.
Doc Holliday
27-09-06, 10:29
No offence but this is the most stupid idea/thread i've seen on here in a very long time.. i know doc holiday isn't a known bad-guy/exploiter but surely you can see there is NO WAY this wouldn't be used to exploit, if it was anyone with even a slightly contraversial reputation it would be blatent they were requesting it purely to abuse it themselves..
KK might be silly at some times but they're definately not that dumb =]
complete waste of time =x
LOL.
I won the award for dumbest thread. Thanks kierz ( and i mean this with sincerity too ) as theres some tough competition on this forum. ;)
I thought of the exploit thing too but decided to toss it out to the wolves so to speak as it did seem like a good idea IF viable and controlled properly. maybe i was thinking too much of how planetshite works and came up with this i dunno. Carnage made his thoughts clear so its been canned.
Theres always a fine line between genius and insanity. I guess this thread is living proof :)
Can the mods please close the thread.
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