View Full Version : The Chaps in the Art Department...
The current balancing project has been underway for quite some time which by the looks of it at this point has been mainly code based stuffs. Except from the occasional seasonal affair we've not seen much from the art department recently. Are they working on the new items needed for the balance project or something else as a nice treat for us?
If its the first (balance project stuff) will we begin to see some occasional screen shots and renders of the new items like we did months in advance of 2.1?
If its the latter - when do we get our treat :p
Just generaly, what are the rest of the KK team doing (especially the art department) during the code based part of the project when they aint being made to test the changes (as assume that's what would happen, anyway, lol).
Heavyporker
17-08-06, 20:47
Hmmm....
If I may request this....
- MAKE DRAGONFLY AND POISONPLANT TROPHIES, DAMMIT!
- More gfx for item types that repeat too often (poisoned/rotten meat.... ammo mods...)
- More holosign advertisements, please, especially in regards to the 'Wanted' poster holosigns.
More strippers with big titties please. It helps with the mood and atmosphere so much... :rolleyes:
Heavyporker
18-08-06, 05:01
I went about Tech Haven today... and thinking of this thread... I have a big recommendation...
Higher resolution textures for the... metallic aspects of Tech Haven. The dirty concrete is perfect, but you really notice the low resolution of the big doors and the ceiling and such when you come near them, you know?
I went about Tech Haven today... and thinking of this thread... I have a big recommendation...
Higher resolution textures for the... metallic aspects of Tech Haven. The dirty concrete is perfect, but you really notice the low resolution of the big doors and the ceiling and such when you come near them, you know?
A lot of the maps needs re-texturing, but I would so much like the clean concrete look back in Techhaven ;)
The art department is still working on Neocron 2 as and when necessary but the focus is switching over to the new project. The main work load for Neocron is code-wise at the moment but you can expect some nice new items and a new level map together with the balancing project and the new storyline.
The art department is still working on Neocron 2 as and when necessary but the focus is switching over to the new project.
What new project?
What new project?
I am not able to give you any details yet, sorry.
Hmm, new project with no details yet, new map, new storyline... Thats going to set the rumour mill on maximum! :p
Edit: Just incase anyone thinks I'm being negative, I'm not. It's good to hear KK is upto something...even if the details are not there.
What new project?
A SciFi MMORPG working title "Prophecy" or "Black Prophecy" planned for 2008..
It will use the Neoreality Engine and is done by reakktor together with 10Tacle Asia..
(Source (http://www.equitystory.com/download/Companies/tacle/VeranstaltungenDownloads2/SES_10TACLE_STUDIOS_AG_23062006_eng_final.pdf))
John Bushido
18-08-06, 11:55
yeah, but the new project has nothing to do with neocrack i guess, it about a "Next gen MMORPG" and i dont believe it would be neocron 3 or stuff......
solid-rock
18-08-06, 12:00
Yea i heard there whas something in the kk newsletter about it. Kinda strange how people just asume that all of kk is working on neocron.
Now whats this neoreality engine then?
Now whats this neoreality engine then?
http://www.elsewhere-entertainment.com/technology.htm
NeoReality Engine http://www.elsewhere-entertainment.com/technology.htm
10Tacle purchased the company a year ago I think.
Edit: Gah! Beaten by fschepper. Here's a whole thread on that engine. http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=129100&highlight=neoreality
solid-rock
18-08-06, 12:12
Oooh looks lovely.
Now whats this neoreality engine then?
Neoreality is a quite powerful 'nextgen' engine. It supports alle the funky shaders n stuff and afaik can easily be used for ps3 and xbox360 titles too.
10tacle aquired it when they took over a small belgium developer (elseWhere Entertainment, a team of 22 known for action-adventures such as "Outcast") - their main asset was the wip neoreality engine.
It was already used by 10tacle for GT Legends ...although I've seen screens of the neoreality engine that show more of the potential (got em 'somewhere on my hdd - need to find em) - GTL looks old compared to the capabilities of this engine.
http://www.peliplaneetta.net/images/articles/595/textpic_1.jpg
Elsewhere has spent several years developing a new game engine dubbed 'NeoReality', which, according to the company, incorporates "groundbreaking rendering technology." The engine has been designed to accommodate current generation PC and console titles, though its primary use is for creation and development of next generation software titles.
...ah here we go, ingame gfx of neoreality:
http://mirrors.akedo.de/neoreality.jpg
/edith: *me sets brammers +k0s*
solid-rock
18-08-06, 12:27
Fschepper beat both of you :P. Bloody damn forum ninja he is.
So the "new project" is nothing to do with Neocron? :( Bit sad to see Neocron staff being pulled into other projects.
Hmm, so at some point between now and the release of "prophecy" whatever that may ultimatley be named we can expect to see development on Neocron being ceased? I can only imagine any creative staff at KK would be glad to get away from doing the same game for soo many years.
New areas (maps) however are always appreciated, especially considering their rareity (lots of 'new' areas are just old ones with new furniture. The TG HQ at the canyon being the most appaling example of that.
u think 10 tac purchased them for there uber engien n us for your uber graphics and story team?
i mean its quite evident we have a good graphics/design team. the map layouts are great and would look amazing if it wasnt for game constraints =] and the new guns with there uber glowing parts n prittyfull ness ;)
and we have one of the best background storys and (previously) the best and most intertwined fraction system where ur allies allies were sometimes ur enemys making certain situations a lil more complicated =]
they are trying to make a new sci-fi game out of bits of and peices of other peoples dreams =( onoz whats gona happen to the NC :)
A SciFi MMORPG working title "Prophecy" or "Black Prophecy" planned for 2008..
It will use the Neoreality Engine and is done by reakktor together with 10Tacle Asia..
(Source (http://www.equitystory.com/download/Companies/tacle/VeranstaltungenDownloads2/SES_10TACLE_STUDIOS_AG_23062006_eng_final.pdf))
Hmm, could we get a confirm on this one?
/start rumor mill
So that new scifi mmorpg, is that nc-related in any way? :P
Maybe ... NC3 ?
It should be NC3, as although KK say NC was designed for a niche market it could be so much more than that, fair enough all the content would have to be re-created in the new engine but hell, if they're gonna make all new content why not just re-create Neocron!
All they have to do is keep the inventory/skill system. Then when NC3 is done *cough* we can all transfer our chars over. *cough* :D
u realise 10 tac would be INSAINE to call it nc3 =P the name is cursed =]
=P but we may get our uber scifi game neway
u realise 10 tac would be INSAINE to call it nc3 =P the name is cursed =]
=P but we may get our uber scifi game neway
As long as it has NC pvp & skillsystem, they can call it "World of Different Warcraft"
for all I care
=P maby its about time to invest 20k in 10tac shares =P ill have to get onto my bank =P
*edit*
also with the ability to port the engien so easily onto consoles... it would be interesting to think we may oneday be fighting console users and there joypads o death =P
cant wait to get circle straifing them with mouseaiming =P maby finaly i will get to prove theres no replacing a mouse n keyboard
Bishop Yutani
18-08-06, 17:43
Well that definately says something about NC in the long term. I don't see why 10t would have two SciFi MMOs. So either we're looking at the beginning of NC3 (or a reimagining of it) or just a new game altogether.
Whatever it is, i'm in. Although it is *kinda* depressing to think of the prospect of NC not existing anymore.
Heavyporker
18-08-06, 17:54
I will fucking cry like a baby if Neocron dies. And go on a rampage of incredible violence.
And that engine doesn't show what outdoor scenes would be like.
And that engine doesn't show what outdoor scenes would be like.Yeah... I want more screenies! :/
From what I see there it looks much like the D3 engine would...
Bishop Yutani
18-08-06, 19:46
yeah it does look like doom3.
Maybe its techhaven 8|
Maybe its techhaven 8|That door sure does look eerily like the TH doors...
Yeah... I want more screenies! :/
From what I see there it looks much like the D3 engine would...
http://www.game-face.de/IMG/jpg/A3_cover.jpg
Dammit dude, that second one there... Pepper Park! KK put an end to this I'm gonna explode. :(
Bishop Yutani
18-08-06, 22:14
just did a bit o research. Those last two shots were for a game called Totem thats being developed by Elsewhere and published by 10t.
Nothing to do with NC.
And in 10t's 2005 annual report, they dont really even mention reakktor.
Nothing to do with NC.
Guess we all knew that ;)
The heck with that! Totem... pffff.
If PP looked like that... imagine Plaza and VR.
Someone needs a reality check here.
How many real devs Reakktor has that we know ? Tigerbunny. who else?
I am sure some other people would like to know too.
If we take that to account and his recent answer on future of NC, we might forget about any upgrades. We will get some new items and a map he made, but that Tops it. New skins ? rawr. I pray npc and mobs will get plastics. Can we have ETA on that? :angel:
This is no way a slash in SnowCrash's direction. Just think what one guy can do.
As much as we want to see NC excel further than current idea and implementation ... it wount happen.
Nobody in 10t wants to spent money on "Ye olde" product. No money = no real development.
If they did, we would not have 50/50 and all F.R.E happen so often. Even FPS might be on level. I still cannot understand how my 6800Gt(ultra oced) can do 50fps in DoD:s with 20 people and Run Oblivion max settings with ~30, but i get 10-15fps during a fight in cycrow with 6 people.
I sure hope "balancing" coming soon and while we at it .. dev(s) will listen to us.
the lags in nc i think can go down if they is only like 3 poeple in the zone and they have a shite pc with shit fps
thats what happened to me the other day i think cos i can fight one person and its normal i will not lag then if i fight anthor person it somtimes lags for me or is it just my pc playing up i dont know . peace
Heavyporker
19-08-06, 07:09
These pictures made me moisten my underpants.
Imagining what Plaza and Via Rosso would look like with that rendering technology made me shudder orgasmically for a half-hour. The walls are drenched with ejaculate. Right now, my pussy is busily licking the lot up.
I've still got a liter of liquids left in me, so I think I'll hire that "Suck for a Buck" ho I saw somewhere and give her a hundred.
That might occupy me for a couple of hours. People, find me more screenshots. I must have eternal delights. I shall cavort across the cosmos!
Someone needs a reality check here.
How many real devs Reakktor has that we know ? Tigerbunny. [...]
This is no way a slash in SnowCrash's direction. Just think what one guy can do.
You are so right. "Someone" needs to check reality here... I think its you tho'.
Even if you do go by the forum activity -as this is what your impression seems to be based on- you would end up with at least 4 (Snow, Carnage, John Doe, Thanatos), not one. Do you think thats a good way to make out the real #'s at KK? How about CoDi then ...technical director / senior coder for NC - doesnt post on the forums - according to you he prly doesnt exist O_o
If they did, we would not have 50/50 and all F.R.E happen so often. Even FPS might be on level. I still cannot understand how my 6800Gt(ultra oced) can do 50fps in DoD:s with 20 people and Run Oblivion max settings with ~30, but i get 10-15fps during a fight in cycrow with 6 people.
You can only tune an ancient hyundai to a certain degree, as long as you keep its original engine in place. Trying to compete with a Porsche will cause your car pain. Thats what happens with NC and its ancient, Genesis based engine ... its clearly not up to the lod and 'complex' rendering... thus the akward performance.
Even if you do go by the forum activity -as this is what your impression seems to be based on- you would end up with at least 4 (Snow, Carnage, John Doe, Thanatos), not one. Do you think thats a good way to make out the real #'s at KK? How about CoDi then ...technical director / senior coder for NC - doesnt post on the forums - according to you he prly doesnt exist O_o
In some way or another you did answer my questions. i dont post as much as you do, so i dont read much either. That might show why i lack some information. Although i read what these people post, i still do not know who actually does the coding, since i never saw anyone post .."i coded such and such thing in ...". Patch notes or Balance discussion has little to do with actual persons involvement in coding process. Lupus/Dirus would be a good example. He did discuss a lot of things, but as far as i know he did not touch the code.
You can only tune an ancient hyundai to a certain degree, as long as you keep its original engine in place. Trying to compete with a Porsche will cause your car pain. Thats what happens with NC and its ancient, Genesis based engine ... its clearly not up to the lod and 'complex' rendering... thus the akward performance.
Thank you for pointing out some more irony there.
I should refer to different example. A GeF4600 and 6800GT. i am thinking in terms of raw computational advantage one has over another. Yet an op fight example yields difference of 6-9 fps in full screen mode. I see same engine executed on a different hardware. Numbers do make me think.
Erm .. if we to speak in terms of race .. does "road" gets "bumpier" or has some more left-lane turns for Porsche, so it has to slow down or it something wrong with Porsche in general ?
I am quite confused on how LOD and complexity of same "road" would slow Porsche down. :)
To summarize all this, i think i should be more blunt. Engine is so unrefined that buying better hardware will yield no performance during most important activity.PvP. I dont think i care about a number of frames i get while standing in TechHaven poking people. I do care about those numbers when i am trying to fight someone and hopefully win.
With that sad, most people would conclude that something must be done to "Engine".
Which brings us to reality ....... KK has no money to develop new engine for an old game. I think they wount even pay extra to polish exsisting product.
As to polishing ... i refer to common bugs and problems that act like a plague, that drives vets towards flashy pictures in high hopes.
...KK has no money to develop new engine for an old game...But they do... AND they have acquired a new engine to work with. With 10T buying KK however long that was ago KK got a whole lot more finance base for this game. We are all going 'YEAH NC3 SOON!' but you know... I think we're gonna see it sooner or later, maybe we won't get to transfer chars though... it will probably be a 'sequel in spirit' like Bioshock is for SS2 or Arx Fatalis was for Ultima Underworld. Hell that kind of thing is pretty common really.
You gotta admit KK did something right with this game or it would be dead... it's 4 years old you know from public beta testing to now. And I bet none of us wants to see it die and I bet KK know that too.
I am quite confused on how LOD and complexity of same "road" would slow Porsche down. :)
Sorry for the confusion here. In my comparison the cars stand for the rendering engine, not the hardware. Car comparisons suck anyway.
Thing is, that unlike state of the art engines, the tekktonik does not cater for the design of modern equipment. The 'great' engines are hugely optimized for the newer generations of hardware.. and the hardware manufacturers, most notable in the area of graphics (ATI, nVidia..) optimize their hardware and drivers for the key game-engines... thus your modern hardware shows much better performance on state of the art engines...
Tekktonik derrived from Genesis originally ... and Genesis, even back at that time, was no 1st choice engine, but to the most part free, but with a supportive community and sufficient documentation... since MJS aimed to build a MMO from scratch w/o having the massive funding it usually involves - compromise wasnt avoidable.
With that sad, most people would conclude that something must be done to "Engine".
Which brings us to reality ....... KK has no money to develop new engine for an old game. I think they wount even pay extra to polish exsisting product.
As to polishing ... i refer to common bugs and problems that act like a plague, that drives vets towards flashy pictures in high hopes.
People have to understand that you cant just replace a game-engine. Sometimes you hear about WIP titles switching the engine at some point in developement... but Neocron a) never was that modular and b) over time has grown into a very complex patchwork as well as c) has the engine dug deep into the program itself and vice versa. Wanting to port NC on a new engine would almost make a complete redesign necessary. The cost of this -especially when looking at what manpower costs in germany (there's a reason elveon is developed in bratislava)- is nothing anyone with a working brain would risk putting in NC. Thats a sad thing to aknowledge when you truly believe in NC and its concepts - running a company comes with responsability as well (even more so since KK isnt all that small contrary to popular believe). What if you put everything on that one card and it fails to whatever reason? A lot of ppl loose their jobs, someone ends up bancrupt with a decent amount of liabilities and KK would no longer be able to maintain NC2. I'd love to see more manpower and stronger financial backing behind NC, but I have consideration for what KK is doing. Imo its crucial that they create more revenue streams, other than NC in order to keep NC running and progressing.
That being said, I can only repeat myself: I dont see NC2 die anytime soon, nor will the constant - yet rather slow - progression stop. NC has come a long way ... and theres a bit of road ahead. In fact, playercounts are on the rise again.
P.S: Its 5 years in fact...
I don't see 10T financing a Neocron 3. Just the same as noody would ever attempt to purchase NC rights. The brand name overall has negative conotations in the gaming public and while always admittedly a niche game has gone beyond that to being a truly tiny market.
In addition, I imagine a lot of people at KK are rather sick of it. A lot of gaming industry people are creative types - you don't think working on the same thing for how many years is it now? Would get rather frustrating and dull.
That said, it doesn't mean that NC is about to be closed down. As long as it keeps making money thats useful, and any new project will take a few years in all likleyhood. The fact that there is no graphics work being done on NC now says something however. I can only forsee as the new project comes to the fore that more and more developer time will be spent on that. Neocron will stay up for as long as income exceeds the mainetnace costs you can be sure, and may have value beyond that too. THere are things that could be learend from operating a free service or such, for marketing and other reasons.
It would also be foolish to say that KK haven't learned anything from their expereinces with NC. I dare say they have learned a lot, and would do many things different next time around. If 10T want to give KK the funding (and support) to make a new game, best of luck to them. Maybe then we'll get the game we always wanted NC to be but never could be. Just don't expect us all to keep playing a derelict NC in the meantime.
Ake, although i desagree with some things you say, i see your point. I do see other thing ... there is no point to argue about it anymore. :)
CMasters post is the quite good. i think main difference among people is perception of worth. One can play a buggy game of grind and enjoy it. Other person could not. In general, most of us dislike KK's approach to this game. In depth talk about it will open another can of worms.
Yet i do want to see things change for better. Bugs fixed in general, balance happening gradually and not as a huge avalanche and maybe in the end some graphic "plastics". As a paying customer i want to enjoy for what i pay. I do not like "In Near future" or "When its done" way. I want "Its happening NOW" way, the "Now" way, that most wanted for last 2 years. i think one must take a pessimistic(realistic) view on things in order to see my point of view.
The screenshots what you all think is TH (riiight), is from a game called Symbiosis
http://www.planet-adelpha.com/Downloads/files/Symbiosis_Trailer_May_2003.wmv
solid-rock
21-08-06, 12:06
*sniff* Smells like someone opened up pandoras box... Again.
if 10 tac always have the game going
then they always have a platform to throw people at when they need some expiriance in a certain area, or a nice place to dump workers between projects
(not to mention on paper they can claim to own the first FPSMMORPG and so on)
solid-rock
22-08-06, 08:42
Dont think neocron whas the first fpsmmo, nor has it ever claimed to be. It was the first cyber punk mmo though and thats what theyr advertising.
Dont think neocron whas the first fpsmmo
wrong
, nor has it ever claimed to be.
wrong :p
solid-rock
22-08-06, 10:26
You know stuff like that wont get you anywhere if you wanna be taken seriusly youve gotta back it up.
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