View Full Version : op war overhaul (brainstorming)
ok before i go posting a huge post of anoying sujestions that nobody wants to read because of the number of spelling mistakes bad grammer and overall terrible layout, i was thinking about the op war system... in all PvP is end game... its one of the few things the community can agree on... well then what can we do to improve it
What would YOU like to see the op war system changed to...
what would u like added,
what benefits would u like to see to hold an op,
what would u like to be removed.... (n dont say hacknet... rework not remove ppl grrrr)
ne ways to prevent ninja'ing
any ways to help a clan from being zerged?
any other sujestions (*cough* the whole genrep underground situation *cough*)
Dribble Joy
12-08-06, 20:49
Ninja and zerging can't be stopped without horribly restrictive means that would go against NC's very open system.
Benefits in holding an OP:
Hard to do. Personally the cash from OPs just makes the big clans stronger and with zerg/stuff, the smaller clans are really at a disadvantage. OP zone bonuses aren't really enough so we need something substantial but not overpowering.
Problems with hacking/HN.
The main thing is that you NEED both people on the ground and people in HN.
Possible remedy would be to allow full hacking and taking an OP from in HN and outside. You could hack 3 times outside, three times in HN or a mixture and you would get the OP.
Advantage needs to be with the defenders: this in itself is a zerg counter. The advantage shouldn't be huge though, otherwise we'll just see constant ninja + hold tactics.
Longer - at the moment, an organised clan can have an op in 3:30 (and only 3 minutes from 1st warning) (theoretically less if they get lucky with the hacks. This can easily be the time it takes for the defenders to relog to correct characters, grab equipment, GR and get together.
Make the structures actually useful - at the moment, fighting starts with the attackers within the fortified walls and the defenders zoning into them. The attackers should inherrently be outside the walls (and any player will tell you the best wars they have had was when you KNEW the enemy was coming and were able to use the fortifications). This also makes more use of the more unqiuely situated ops.
More alternative methods of taking - will lead to more variation in fights and tactics.
Hacknet a useful support role instead of a necessary but easily avoided one.
Roles for others excpet for fighters and hackers? Drivers? Tradeskillers?
op waring could be vastly improved if clan missions were implimented...
eg. Clan A of the domes TG is given a mission to poison a CA official. TG storm CA hq all guns blazing taking damage from the bots soaking up as much as they can pow pow man down man down. while a sneaky lil obliterator spy gets behind the defences and pulls out a toxin. which he then infects the CA npc with.
then clan B of the citys CA is given a mission to hack a specific lab and synthasis a vaccine (which would take X amont of ingame hours) and so the men upstairs have to fight it out while the reserchers go into the lab and play a minigame similar to hacking which enables them to synth the vacine faster. then if they return in time to save the CA official they get a nice big clan promotion and special favor
this promotes a greater variety of endgame options
missions could range from take X amount of opps to destract fraction X from whats realy going on
or kill a certain number of enemy runners withough ur own clan taking more deaths than kills
or just huge mass production jobs of special items that can only be constructed in ops (preferably the computer selects an op currently owned by sumbody else)
Roc-a-fella
12-08-06, 22:27
ONE THING THAT I WANT
Fix the goddamn synch bugs and fix your gdamn netcode or whatever you gotta do to make it so people dont hop skip and jump off my screen. Then vehicles will be more viable in OP wars and there will be a estimated 2.56% more fun.
Firstly, the money from OPs needs to be scrapped, there's enough money floating around these days without it.
Secondly, the cst + res bonus from OPs are a nice idea, but they have very limited use beyond allowing people to do tl150 ress missions more easily which fucks up the economy even more.
The challenge with trying to find something suitable for the OPs to give, is that it has to appeal to almost any type of clan, it should not be overpowering, yet it should not be useless, and it should be designed so that you will want to hold on to the OP for as long as you possibly can.
Bishop Yutani
13-08-06, 02:15
what if your clan gained some benefit that impacted those NOT involved in op warring? If the regular lone wolf was effected by what was happening out in the wastes, maybe you'd see more people involved in ops. Perhaps not even joining clans but being hired mercenaries for a particular clan/ cause.
If the clan with the most ops could select which zones in the opposite city were savezones, or maybe jack up prices slightly, even genrep costs, i think people would be more inclined to be involved.
- Increase time to take OP, so warnings can be reacted to, rather than gathering at the next OP in distance because that's where they might go next.
- Make vehicles viable and worthwhile, not pwned in a few HL's/psi attacks ;) .
- Sort UG zone whoring/Barrel op wars....yawn.
- Resolve clipping! as some OPS are just a joke to fight at.
- would love to see an OP "WAR" not just an OP "SKIRMISH"
Develop it along the lines of many classes needed to OP WAR instead of a few to hold down the owners while you hack it.
I have a idea but I haven’t though it through properly yet, it could help small clans and loan runners and so on experience op wars and prevent overwhelming Zergs annoying ninjas, but it would be a big change.
The first change is making all genreps open always. And on the op management page u can set a genrep fee from 0 – 50k NC each time that outpost is used the money goes into the clan bank =] this is to counter the outposts new costs and help stabilise the economy =] (plus if your asking 50k nc per genrep and somebody else one zone over is asking 5k there not going to go to you. But it would be fun to try n take every outpost and get a monopoly =] )
FIRSTLY
First layer of the hack has to be done in hacknet, not the last... and after hacking a worm was installed in the system...
THIS THEN STARTS
A 10 minuet counter... at the start of the counter every member of the defending op is notified and again every minuet. Genreping to the location is disabled. Only the defending clan can access this outpost via the genrep
E.G. “A Worm has been installed in the security systems of cycrow, All FF members are required to defend your outpost. Please proceed to F12 and eliminate the CA threat”
THEN EITHER
A member of the clan with sufficient rank disables the broadcast then the time will continue to count down for clan members only
OR
If a member of the clan doesn’t disable the broadcast then at 5 minuets fraction members will be notified, Genreping to this location is now available by the defending clan and other members of the same fraction
E.G. Fraction message...
“In 5 minuets outpost cycrow's defences will fall. Defending Clan FF have not been able to muster a force to defend it. All twilight guardian are asked to proceed with caution to F12 and eliminate the CA threat”
THEN
At 1 minuet all Allies will be notified. And genreping is further opened to members of alliance fractions (providing it isn’t there fraction that have taken the op)
E.G. Alliance
“In 1 minuet outpost cycrow's defences will fall. Defending Clan FF have not been able to muster a force to defend it even with the help of Twilight guardian members. all allies to the Twilight guardians are asked to proceed to sector F12 and eliminate the CA threat”
AFTER THAT
hacks procceed as normal nothing else changes
=] what u think?
People can no longer hack an op in 3 mins
If the defending clan don’t have the sufficient force to fight back then they can rely on friends and allies (which they can do now if they ask)
It enables a stray runner new to the game to come along and watch an op fight and maybe even join in
Down side is that it is more restricting. You have to wait 10 minuets… although the defending clan will probably arrive in force to destroy any enemies lingering around there genreps
Op wars may get bigger if clans decide to let other people help
There is always the option to turn off the broadcast if people want a private opfight
Clive tombstone
14-08-06, 17:55
Okay, we COULD do something like what anarchy online does with its Notum fields (basically, OP's they make themselves) The reward in fact for these fields being operational, is a global XP bonus for everyone on that factions side, being Ether clan, Neutral, or OMNI.
some things mentioned above for op ideas are nice in the regards of instigating full battles, and Id like to add to that.
Artillary pieces and support Fire
-Fairly self explanitory, needs some more ideas though
More variation in OP geography and construction (like landing pads for gliders, Garages, Pill boxs)
Manable pre placed turrets
-These could be bought from some kind of terminal once the OP is under control. They could be maned much like a vehicle, but would be completly stationary. Because of the fact that they are immoble, maybe a high Offencive power on them would be a good idea.
more ideas to come.
Okay, we COULD do something like what anarchy online does with its Notum fields (basically, OP's they make themselves) The reward in fact for these fields being operational, is a global XP bonus for everyone on that factions side, being Ether clan, Neutral, or OMNI.
some things mentioned above for op ideas are nice in the regards of instigating full battles, and Id like to add to that.
Artillary pieces and support Fire
-Fairly self explanitory, needs some more ideas though
More variation in OP geography and construction (like landing pads for gliders, Garages, Pill boxs)
Manable pre placed turrets
-These could be bought from some kind of terminal once the OP is under control. They could be maned much like a vehicle, but would be completly stationary. Because of the fact that they are immoble, maybe a high Offencive power on them would be a good idea.
more ideas to come.
and exp boost to everbody in the clan would be nice =] more ops bigger boost... but to make that desierable then u would need woc items poured into the game thick n fast because exp bonus's would enable people to hit woc lvls faster =] maby even add some more woc levels... it doesnt matter if a person is going to achive them or not... there always has to be something more to strive for...
Dribble Joy
14-08-06, 19:06
I was thinking about an XP boost, it could probably be enabled (OP status can be attained at all times by a player), though whether it would be a faction, clan or alliance bonus I'm not sure.
Clan and to an extent faction could encourage bandwagoning, so alliance seems better (OP taking in the current NC climate is generally for your alliance).
As for a hacker needed at the start; No, as I said neither hackers nor people on the ground should be necessary. Either should be able to conduct an OP taking in it's entirety.
Why not have the op status enable you to use specific weapons or armour that factions award for owning an op or several ops? If you left the clan or lost the op then the items would be useless to you until you get your op status back. I don't think an xp bonus is of any use. Runners can already cap in a very short time and what incentive would there be once you have the highest WoC?
A "clan only" vehicle depot would be cool to have at every op or certain ops too.
Dribble Joy
14-08-06, 20:36
Xp bonus wouldn't be the main feature I don't think.
As for items... hmmm... I dunno... depends on the items involved.
Access to cirtain missions/services might be OK, like cirtain, better located garages or faction things.
Apocalypsox
14-08-06, 21:04
thats an interesting idea...faction ASGs...
Better weapons or ammo imidiatly throws pvp out of balance
but bertter vhcs would be good as op bonus's
mhmm nebody got a list of ops and what they are (labs mines bla bla bla) i dont want to have to go n list em all my self =\ i hate pawing over maps
it would be nice if owning OPs gave exclusive access to certain mob areas, but i don't think there's enough content floating around for that :D
Dribble Joy
14-08-06, 23:56
Or maybe GR access that normally there is none.
Allwayd liked there to be areas that you have to walk a considerable distance to, or use a vehicle. Specific GR access to players holding a cirtain OP would then allow them to GR there instead.
Apocalypsox
15-08-06, 00:26
just lookin at the first post again and thinking about the op system...What if we moved the Hacknet requirement to the beginning of the fight. The hacker would have to go into the uplink of the outpost and hack a terminal to open the doors to the op? After that make it 3 normal hacks like normal. I would like this a bit better. It could always be only on certain ops too.
This would also add a purpose for things like Hovercarriers and the gliders and the such. Dont need to open no gate to divebomb a outpost and drop a tank in the process.
just lookin at the first post again and thinking about the op system...What if we moved the Hacknet requirement to the beginning of the fight. The hacker would have to go into the uplink of the outpost and hack a terminal to open the doors to the op? After that make it 3 normal hacks like normal. I would like this a bit better. It could always be only on certain ops too.
This would also add a purpose for things like Hovercarriers and the gliders and the such. Dont need to open no gate to divebomb a outpost and drop a tank in the process.
actualy ye i love that idea... the only problem is noobs needing the shops... everbody loves the shops they would have to move em outside =[ because using a op for gogo n shops would be imposible.... like chesters for sotring launcher parts n so on
-=EDIT=-
if we had a total map redesign and outposts above ground had the normal things but there are walled of areas with doors (NOT ZONES) heading underground. that were still open top ( so u can use nades and launchers and maby oneday attilery, aswell as being able to drop in people with hovers) then it may be viable
Apocalypsox
15-08-06, 01:52
so put the semi general shops and a gogo outside, and put special shops (reward for op) and a gogo n all that shit INSIDE!
Dribble Joy
15-08-06, 02:12
Pehaps each OP should have a 'village' near by?
Quite likely that at an OP, like a city, crossroads or a trade point, a community will spring up.
This could be the base for the shops, gogu and good place for quests/missions to be located.
Pehaps each OP should have a 'village' near by?
Quite likely that at an OP, like a city, crossroads or a trade point, a community will spring up.
This could be the base for the shops, gogu and good place for quests/missions to be located.
ding ding ding we have a winner =P that sounds like an awsome idea =]
1 less OPs.
reduce OPs to 20 or even less, so ppl would concentrate on the remaining ones.
2 no money or bonuses from OPs (apart from a small defenders bonus on health) . make them conquest only.
3 pay for OPs. OPs should cost a reasonable sum of money, i.e. 100k per day. as the clan is broke the OP will fall back into neutral.
4 no hacknet. rework the role of hacknet in OP wars, and in general.
5 hot and cold times: after conquering of an OP, the hot time starts: for 60 minutes any attacker will be able to take it back with 3 hacks. after 60 minutes realtime the cold time starts, and the op can not be hacked for 10 hours realtime.
6 rewards for successful conquest: ingame statistics to prove the success of a clan: how many OPs conquered, how many days in possession of OPs.
shift OP trader bonuses to faction-symp-model: i.e. a constructor with a facsymp of 100 will be able to rent a machine, giving a bonus of 20.
remove hacknet from OP wars
remove dungeons from OP zones
and yes, it's boni, not bonuses, just so you know.
1 less OPs.
reduce OPs to 20 or even less, so ppl would concentrate on the remaining ones.
2 no money or bonuses from OPs (apart from a small defenders bonus on health) . make them conquest only.
3 pay for OPs. OPs should cost a reasonable sum of money, i.e. 100k per day. as the clan is broke the OP will fall back into neutral.
4 no hacknet. rework the role of hacknet in OP wars, and in general.
5 hot and cold times: after conquering of an OP, the hot time starts: for 60 minutes any attacker will be able to take it back with 3 hacks. after 60 minutes realtime the cold time starts, and the op can not be hacked for 10 hours realtime.
6 rewards for successful conquest: ingame statistics to prove the success of a clan: how many OPs conquered, how many days in possession of OPs.
shift OP trader bonuses to faction-symp-model: i.e. a constructor with a facsymp of 100 will be able to rent a machine, giving a bonus of 20.
remove hacknet from OP wars
remove dungeons from OP zones
and yes, it's boni, not bonuses, just so you know.
as i said if u changed the hacknet requierment from the end to the start via my method u could nock out the deffences and not need hacknet atal after turning off the deffences... so it woudlnt be a requiermnet as such... just summin needed to instigate the op war (eg ur enemy wont know ur going to there op topside so there wont be an army stoping u taking it
Just thinking of the problem of defending the op, and some of the general comments about the best op-wars was when they knew when the enemy was coming.
So here's my 2nc's worth. ;)
In each op, there is a watchman NPC. He stays at the op, and can be hired by the current clan who owns the op. When a clan member speaks to him, the NPC asks what service grade of watching you want, and the clan member pays the watchman.
The watchman then “joins” the clan. (Like the turrets do when you lay them down) Then the watchman reports on clan chat of any movements near by the op.
Depending on how much you want to pay, you can buy 3 grades of watchman service.
Bronze – The cheapest option. Depending on the op security settings, here he just reports “Spotted 3 unfriendly runners approaching the op.”
Silver – Here you get more information like the faction. Again depending on the op security settings, he would say “Spotted 3 Tangent runners approaching the op.”
Gold – Here you get more information, like the clan and the classes. Again depending on the op security settings, he would say “Spotted 3 runners from clan TFC approaching the op. 2 spies and a monk.”
So your clan members can act depending on the reports from the watchman!
When the enemy takes the op, then the watchman resigns from clan, and is available for hire to the new clan owners.
i think that as soon as layer 1 goes down, both clans should alt f4, and have a game of BF2 to decide who gets the OP.
i think that as soon as layer 1 goes down, both clans should alt f4, and have a game of BF2 to decide who gets the OP.
:lol:
Pehaps each OP should have a 'village' near by?
Quite likely that at an OP, like a city, crossroads or a trade point, a community will spring up.
This could be the base for the shops, gogu and good place for quests/missions to be located.
just implement this and whatever brammers/zovos say and we'll be ok.
i think if you move the hn part to the start you can as well cancel it completely. fullhackers have about nothing to do in game atm and you even want to further reduce their role. :mad:
imo it should be impossible to logg in at the term for instance, which makes hacknet defence completely impossible. there should be roles for every class, so everyone is needed to get an op. make doors that only consters can break, so we get some kind of engineers in game (mebbe with 100 cst req or so), the ops hn area is only accessible at the op, so ppl need to guard their fullhackers while they enter. imo a hn part should have to be done after each hack, and if it's only pvm, but that could reduce the number of hacking ppus greatly, that means making it possible for a spy (or even a pe) to stealth through the attackers lines and get their hacker.
there could be defensive turrets that hc tanks and pes could man or mines that consters could place (that would despawn after 5 mins or so) and remove.
there should be no more than 2 hackers needed from 1 clan (which mebbe isn't a problem on a four slot server, but on a 1 slot it is)
i think that as soon as layer 1 goes down, both clans should alt f4, and have a game of BF2 to decide who gets the OP.Rofl. Well i'am a bf2 player but i have't played in a while. And i'm a sniper. :D
Roc-a-fella
15-08-06, 16:45
Pehaps each OP should have a 'village' near by?
Quite likely that at an OP, like a city, crossroads or a trade point, a community will spring up.
This could be the base for the shops, gogu and good place for quests/missions to be located.
This would be a supreme idea for any game based on PvP. And if im mistaken and NC isnt based on PvP, well it basically is cause thats the only thing to do lol.
But i think implenting this would be too much work for them, but a small village nexto ops would be cool. But that alone aint nothin to fight for.
i think that as soon as layer 1 goes down, both clans should alt f4, and have a game of BF2 to decide who gets the OP.You know, Carinth (former player and leader of P.I.M.P.) suggested once that fighting for an OP should be like playing RTCW MP, with objectives and all that for victory. (maybe BF2 is the same, I dunno haven't played it) The big problem with that though is the requirement for multiple (and even numbers of) players for both sides be on at the same time.
Rofl. Well i'am a bf2 player but i have't played in a while. And i'm a sniper. :D i too am a sniper :D . the only problem with bf2 is that i can only stand so much air striking / apc and tank whores before i get bored.
the only problem with bf2 is that i can only stand so much air striking / apc and tank whores before i get bored.Do you see what I see? We whine about monk/zerg/ninja. If ever a game gets 'capture the flag' right we will all be playing it till we die.
which has got nothing to do with a roleplaying game :lol:
my sujested (prolly quite some time ago) op defence system where people are able to log in and designate how the op is defended (locations for placeable walls that have masive def n hp, locations for mannable gun turrets, purchaseable guards for both hacknet and the realworld, purchaseable cameras than can be view'd from the clan apt via a login booth (because it would requier a sync to the zone i do belive... so u just sync as a camera) and lots of other things)
also hacknet should be useable by tanks again
then there should be certain areas only accessable by hacknet
secret complexes where specialist reserch goes on. then hackers for hire have to buff n defend an army of combat classes so they can get throught the network and pop out at AN UNTAGGABLE genrep... so u have to travel through hacknet to get to a training ground with special drops n so on... BUT this is a op thread not a hacknet idea thread ^_^
ya and i said excluding hackers from opfights make them completely useless, so my post might have sthing to do with ops
Do you see what I see? yes, i see that there some stupid dev sitting out there who thinks that airstrikes would be a good idea. i mean, you could be sitting happilly on top for the server with 30 kills to 0 deaths, and then suddenly some magic f******** ***** ***** ***** **** comes down from the sky and kills you. as for the tanks/APCs it would be fine if they just took out the APCs.
ya and i said excluding hackers from opfights make them completely useless, so my post might have sthing to do with ops
never used to need hacknet atal... having to hack the final layer in hn is stupid =\... full hackers should have other uses for hacknet apart from just starting or finishing an op fight... the problem is the hacknet world and the real world are to seperated... like i said there should be ways hackers can guide real people through the hacknet world to places they can train for a price, hackers have always been an important part of opp wars but maby opwars should be fightable withough hackers atall
maby bruit force overwhelming ur opponent should work aswell... or a extreamly expirianced hacker should beable to get into an op security computer and start remoptly opening doors and controling turrets and so on... but alas this is only fairytail because i dont think the engien can handel manipulation of a zone the character isnt in
BTW i was statingtthis is an OP thread and i wasnt going to go into my maaaaany problems with hack net :P not trying toi tell u shurup n stay on topic =P i found what u said to be totaly ontopic
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