View Full Version : What is Reakktors Viewon Neocron?
Clive tombstone
07-08-06, 21:49
I actually have a few questions, which I hope I can get answers to.
.What exactly is KK's Vission on the future of neocron? Do they see it as a possible strong hold for profit once things get rolling along? Or do they see bigger and better ideas in the future?
Also, would KK ever concider planning on expanding its team for neocron into the states or otherwise, or actually selling to anouther developer or company for more progression? As I see it now, it seems games like Huxly, Fallen earth, hell even anarchy online, seem to be picking up steam, and people still stare at me with blank expressions when I ask them if they ever heard of neocron?
I've been playin for years, and I love this game, theres nothing like it anywhere else for the most part, but I wanna know if theres anything thats gonna happen in the future that they are planning to improve the living conditions for neocron and its development team? In other words, is there gonna be any developments that improve they err.. development of neocron itself?
Im sorry that this message may seem a little incoherant, but Im only working on about 4 hours of sleep right now, and Im having a hard time building my questions into something thats understandable.
i think neocron 3 is a long way away.
Do they see it as a possible strong hold for profit once things get rolling along?
You've been here almost as long as I have - I couldn't help but laugh. Define "rolling along" for me. The highest populations were at the release of NC1 in Q4 of 2002 and the release of NC2 in Q4 of 2004, which was lower than NC1s release. I'm not being negative here, I'm being realistic. What, in regards to KK's realistic budget and manpower, could possibly happen at this point to get NC2 "rolling along" with 3-4 populated servers?
The engine simply isn't competition to today's standards - Unreal 3, Source, Doom 3, real vehicle physics, precise object collision detection, rag doll physics, lower/removed zone loading times - the game itself needs a new engine.
The design is great, but the implementation isn't so much flawed, but bound by the engine. If I were a betting man, I'd be saying just enjoy NC for what it is, smile at the little improvements that will make it in in the next 12-18 months, and keep hoping for NC3 on a new engine with many of NC/NC2's promised-but-not-delivered features.
NC on Source would be nice. Rifles might work properly, for once. :-)
Clive tombstone
08-08-06, 03:54
I know I know FN, like I said man, Im kinda asking the this question while im partially three sheets to the wind, you know? Anywho, I love this game, I really do. It has so much potential, and honestly it has nowhere else to go but up honestly, it just needs the lift.
I hope in the future that I can help with NC's endevours on a more occupational basis^^
Im almost finished with college (about a year left) and Id be honored if I could work for them, My art skills are nice, but my modeling and texturing skills are getting much better as well, I hand paint most of them. My 3d scripting is getting good too. But of course Im getting ahead of myself, For all I know kk needs more programmers and whatnot probably.
yes but saying that people always come back to neocron for the pvp what other game offers you the same amount of skill of killing in it.
The engine wouldn’t you have to shut down neocron to replace it or would you just have to patch it???
Clive tombstone
08-08-06, 03:58
For the engine to be replaced, Id say shut down, but files Could be transfered safly enough
Dribble Joy
08-08-06, 04:19
One problem with a dirty great new uber engine.
License cost.
I seriously doubt that KK has the cash or 10T would be willing to invest that amount of money, especially with all the additional dev costs is would entail to convert the game to the new engine.
I know it's been said before, but a decent advertising campaign, a free trial that does not require finantial details to be forked over, a better payment option and a more n00b friendly part of the game is what's needed. Then with better pops, you can start thining about the serious long term stuff.
NC doesn't need a new engine, the gameplay opperates fine as it is and texture/gfx quality can be increased, but clearly at some point it will start to look increasingly dated. Which unfortunately, as much as it's great to play, people will turn off at the sight of it rather than think that it might possibly work.
They should do a ad 30 secs of pvp with the mb music lol ;)
In the US and Europe.
You know people have heard of wow and eve
But if I say neocron to people they say wots that
they have even heard of runescape and how shit is that game
Clive tombstone
08-08-06, 04:28
well thats just the problem my Dj, my friend. Number one Even though I am still at the institute right now, Ive managed to speak personally with a number of Big game developers, ranging from employees from SOE, to guys at human head studios and even high moon studios. And everytime Ive brough up the topic of neocron or the topic of old versus new, the response was always the same.
Demands must be met of the large consumer to reap maximum profits, and currently for the MMORPG market, that demand is improved gameplay and graphics, regular updates, and Strong game engines with all the bells and whistles included. Ill be honest here and say that NC is doing "good " but they can be doing a whole lot better unfortunatly. And yes I also do acknowlege the problem of funding, as creating a new engine is incredibly taxing, let alone licencing one. But one chief point in bussiness is that if your making a profit, you gotta be in the red to begin with.
But say they do get backing and all that stuff and it doesn’t work neocron will be bankrupt and then no more neocrack
Dribble Joy
08-08-06, 04:34
I shall win the lottery and buy KK :p. Then there will be NC forever.
Clive tombstone
08-08-06, 04:35
Hmm, I wonder how things will improve then, I wish I had a better scope on exactly how things are going in KK hQ. They are indeed a company that I admire and respect simply because of there endurance and brilliance they have managed to create with neocron. I just wish to see this game soar so much further^^. I wonder if theres anything WE can do to help them.
Dribble Joy
08-08-06, 04:39
Too bad my forum history is a little murkier than intended, I have too many content ideas to deal with....
Clive tombstone
08-08-06, 05:09
Man though I gotta admit, Elvion looks pretty damn sweet, I wish that dev team would hop on NC when they finish up^^ Being a part of Tentacle studios no?
Heavyporker
08-08-06, 05:59
What winds me up is that I heard 10Tacel put millions upon millions into Eleveon. Of *course* it looks good, with that much money into it.
I spurt every time I think of Neocron looking that good... *sigh*
surely they would make more money with a cyber punk genre rather than another-fucking-elf game
Dribble Joy
08-08-06, 11:11
Unlikely, as much as people like things like blade runner... think how many people like Lord of the Rings? How many D&D players out there that want to be paladins?
People either want to be Gimily and whirl a big axe about, be the silent swordsman like aragon or be pretty and walk ontop of snow like legolas.
Cyber punk, especially NC's breed of cyber punk is niche, and will probably remain so for a long time.
Sooner or later, someone will bring out a game that has a lot of the qualities of NC but they'll do it with a sexy engine and use paypal like every other sane company. If KK haven't sorted things out by the time this happens...
It will happen, a couple have aimed for it and missed but are still doing well enough. The target will be hit with one game or another, I hope its KK that gets it.
it wouldn't be hard to convert most click n wait games to neocron style shooters. For example you have your list of spells bound to 1 to 9, you click on the spell to start charging it up and when it's done you simply move your reticle over a player or mob and left click to discharge it. i'm just waiting for someone to do it :(
Bishop Yutani
08-08-06, 16:37
/signed. It would be really nice to get a paragraph or two from the big-guys on what they see NC doing for the next year.
IMO, this game would be a serious contender if it had a new engine. Its ok as-is for the people out there who don't care about great gfx and such, but to everyone else, ESPECIALLY the kids who are playing the new mmo's, good visuals and twitchy gameplay are essential.
come on guys! lets all go advertise nc on other forums :D
come on guys! lets all go advertise nc on other forums :D
Again? Isn't 50 times enough???
Again? Isn't 50 times enough??? yeh :\
i don't think advertising NC would make any difference, just fixing the game would bring back more than enough ex-players to populate to servers to the optimal amount. the removal of para alone would bring back at least 100 players :p
As I have already stated in the german forum, we are still standing fully behind Neocron and are eager to continue to improve it within the given technical framework. The technical possibilities with the Tektonic engine are indeed limited compared to more modern MMOG engines but Neocron still has this unique and dense cyberpunk/sci-fi roleplay atmosphere and by far the most exiting player vs. player combat - you won't find in any other comparable MMO. At this point we will continue our efforts to improve the game e.g. with the balancing project, the soon coming exciting story package with several chapters and much more.
Reakktor's vision behind Neocron was always to create a game with a soul, rather then just having a game that glares with a high-end graphics engine but with a boring, blown up and soulless gameworld and gameplay. And this is what we managed to realise in the past and what have always been the no.1 argument for players to play Neocron.
Shame NC isn't getting the use of this baby http://www.elsewhere-entertainment.com/technology.htm since 10tacle now own it.
I would love TH to look like that like i said when the aquisition happened!
As a Cyberpunk fan I find your post offensive Snowcrash. This is in no way a dense cyberpunk atmosphere. You've in no way tried to improve and promote this aspect of the game. Sure you may get in with the technicality of it meeting the Cyberpunk standards, but any real Cyberpunk fan with snort at you with disgust.
Throwing in implants, and a very weak cyberspace environment is hardly a dense Cyberpunk atmosphere. But who knows, maybe i've spoiled myself in games that dedicated themselves to the Cyberpunk genre and make sure their games have the feel and soul of the genre.
by far the most exiting player vs. player combat - you won't find in any other comparable MMOIs that your marketing department talking, or personal experience? Exciting? I'd call it entertaining at the most. The outpost system was and still is poorly implemented, with noone really caring about outposts. Take them out and you'll surely find several threads saying "hey, those spots we pvp at is missing those walls, wtf?"
Outposts were never really given a proper enough value to them, and like with the servers, KK liberally handed them out far more than they should have, further giving lesser value to holding them. The only value they hold is in telling the clan in possession of the outpost "hi, we're here, come pvp please". And for what? Because they're with an enemy faction? Factions are a dead and soulless entity in this game and always have been. I'm not saying it's KK's fault either, because i've seen them try.
Just please don't try to feed us how Neocron's PvP is by far unmatched when there more MMO's then Neocron out there with living faction systems and PvP with purpose.
I could probably go on for another hour with this shit. But we all know what Neocron is. The general concept of this game carried this product very far. Poorly implented game ideas/systems have dragged it down, KK's decision to open so many servers for a niche market only hurt the game further, maybe not as noticable at first. Ontop of picking shady, and utterly inept companies to do business with(please try to argue this point).
While Joerg and whoever else had a great concept, the implementation of it was subpar. Myself among the other veteran players of this game will still forever be indebted for the great times we've had in this game, and no matter how bitter we've come because of the bullshit and dumb ideas we've indured over the years, we still love the game and are greatful to the staff that had the talent to get it as far as they could. Whether they want to admit it or not.
Is that your marketing department talking, or personal experience? Exciting? I'd call it entertaining at the most. The outpost system was and still is poorly implemented, with noone really caring about outposts. Take them out and you'll surely find several threads saying "hey, those spots we pvp at is missing those walls, wtf?"
As a new and infact an old player i still get a buzz from PVP, probably because i dont do it that often, the system is exceiting although not as much as it was in days gone by with changes to soullight, zone rules, factions and the LE.
i'd like to see some other benefits from holding ops too, until then i just hope that this balancing project will provide us with better opportunities for making unique and pvp viable setups.
and snowcrash i just hope you back up what you've just said with patches, because i think that pvp and gameplay is the way to go and it will be what keeps NC alive
... Neocron still has this unique and dense cyberpunk/sci-fi roleplay atmosphere and by far the most exiting player vs. player combat - you won't find in any other comparable MMO. ...
Say what? :wtf: In last two years I saw no roleplay , a few quests and some "lets group up and advance this plot abit" moves is most people got.
The usual reality in NC is to level up and find your group of people among red vs blue conflict. Lucky gamer would find a nice clan to be in to keep his interest in this game, yet many will still leave since there is not much to do except to grind in hopes of being rewarded for it ... or lurk around all corners to get some PvP action we all like. Should we venture in to PvP department?
I bet most, as I am, would like to skip this part, since it is unrefined, biased and depressing.
..we are still standing fully behind Neocron and are eager to continue to improve it within the given technical framework. The technical possibilities with the Tektonic engine are indeed limited compared to more modern MMOG engines..
Could it be that your approach towards game limited by its engine or "Technical framework" is weakened and restrained by so many limitations that all you can do is play with internal components with out improving a thing?
I think KK does not see Neocron as a viable product anymore ... you do not want to invest in it to make it profitable. You neglected whole innovation process all together.
What impact do you expect from a few weapon and spell fixes that we needed for so long? Great numbers of new players? Joy on veteran’s faces? Well, you might get second one, but I doubt you will get more new players.
What can you offer to those savvy players, who saw WoW and load of other flashy games?
Nothing. You have no product for them. I greatly doubt that “unique and dense cyberpunk/sci-fi roleplay atmosphere” will be enough to hold them past 10-day trial. Most of them do not give a rat’s ass about atmosphere. They seek entertainment, eye candy, and joys of social interaction, which we LACK in neocron.
Any thoughts on how we can remedy this situation ?
Bishop Yutani
10-08-06, 19:47
Any thoughts on how we can remedy this situation ?
License the unreal engine for NC3 instead of Elvion?
............. the removal of para alone would bring back at least 100 players :p
Correction reads: " the removal of C2P alone would bring back at least 100 players :p "
:D
Reakktor's vision behind Neocron was always to create a game with a soul, rather then just having a game that glares with a high-end graphics engine but with a boring, blown up and soulless gameworld and gameplay. And this is what we managed to realise in the past and what have always been the no.1 argument for players to play Neocron.
Sorry. In my honest opinion. There is no soul anymore. there's nothing to do. I logged on once all month. for an hour, looking for something to take part in. MOTU is simply more of the same "let the players duke it out" crap.
The world is small, and now uninteresting. The storyline starts and stops, stumbles and then seems to forget whats going on and so starts again. Things that should have been cleaned up haven't.
It's a mess.
Reakktor's vision behind Neocron was always to create a game with a soul, rather then just having a game that glares with a high-end graphics engine but with a boring, blown up and soulless gameworld and gameplay.
Don't get me wrong, i'm sure i speak for a lot of us when i say we love the 'soul' of the game, including the dark dingy worlds and maps. It's the whole atmosphere of the place that's kept me interested all these years (and well away from WoW which i have seen, tried and hated)
I hope this won't change, but the old creaking engine is showing its cracks now, especially with the netcode changes that many ISPs have been making recently. How feasible would it be to transfer all the existing gameworlds and content to one of these high-end seamless engines? That would fix the one weak link in the chain to make this the best goddam game ever. No syncs....bliss.
Clive tombstone
11-08-06, 01:34
Wow, I like how these replies a lot, Ive really never had much courage to say those kinds of things since I do love this game very much, but I will aggree with Spermy, strife and all the rest so far (sorry kk :( ). While this game is very entertaining for its ideas and "unique" game play, its not at its strength that is should be at, and adding story lines or a few weapons, or even major tweaks isnt gonna remedy the situation. Couple of things that could help (if possible to aquire)
-New engine: not a revamped tekton engine, but something "new" meaning licenenced or home made (the home made would of course be much harder to produce IMO
-More of the world to explore: I dont mean "new dungeons" I mean more of our fragged earth, Im pretty sure nukes dont completly destroy entire continents (with the exception of africa I think according to the story)
-And other stuff like fixing payment and a free trial without financial ties, you know what I mean.
But I digres, this isn't my game, it's yours KK, "Do" what you guys think is Is best. Honestly love this game to death, but love is a funny thing, since its pretty easy to hate the things you love.
In a few days (or a week, whenever the schedual will allow), Im gonna try and speak with some of the game devs in person from Highmoon studios and SOE (gotta love the connections at the art institute^^) and ask there honest to gawd opionion on this game, and whats economically feasable and or whats the best approach to NC in the matter of getting this game up to date.
PEace out, and KK, I still love you guys, Seriously
More of the world to explore: I dont mean "new dungeons" I mean more of our fragged earth, Im pretty sure nukes dont completly destroy entire continents (with the exception of africa I think according to the story)
I've got to say, the fastest and probably easiest way to get me back full time (aside from the rebalancing which is sounding promising) would be to put in more of the wastes. I'm not asking for a new city, or new mobs, or anything. Take some of that sea and put islands on it. Put real big chunks of new stuff there, many zones wide. Also, something that strikes me is that the wastes are largely two dimensional - sure, thare are mountains and all, but these are generally monolithic chunks stuck on an otherwise generally flat floor. You'd need reasons to go there, so whack NPCs in there that offer quests, cheaper goods, stuff that can only be bought there.
How about an op on a high plateau, with a winding patch you have to climb up? It would be no end of fun defending an op there, or attacking one. Flying vehicles would become genuinely necessary, and sniping would take on a real meaning. And I don't mean land: ____/OP\___ land - whole chunks of ground high above sea level, perhaps connected by bridges and you can see people running around below. Whole areas tough to get on top of, tough to get down from. I can't really explain it well - which is a shame - but I think a more detailed use of height on the maps would be welcomed.
I've played on WoW, and I found it a dull, linear grind and combat was awful - once you knew how to kill something it was a rinse and repeat exercise. Your level defined what you could kill - and only your level. No amount of skill could make up for it. Once you could kill a certain mob, you'd never die to them. Bleurgh. Neocron's combat system is awesome, and a much better technical achievement than WoW's main asset: masses of great, varied terrain. Each time I stood on top of a mountain looking waaay down at people running about, I always thought "Jeez, I wish I had my silent hunter here and could kill them :("
So, that's my quick fix! More of, and more interesting terrain :)
I guess people are heavily busy with the rebalancing, and rightly so. But I would assume that adding whole new chunks of land wouldn't really be an indepth reprogramming task involving tinkering with the heart of the game. I'm not saying it would be a snip, to get it nice and looking great, and interesting would take real effort, but I'm sure it's easier and less critical to get 100% right than all this mathemetics and engine business.
I've got to say, the fastest and probably easiest way to get me back full time (aside from the rebalancing which is sounding promising) would be to put in more of the wastes. I'm not asking for a new city, or new mobs, or anything. Take some of that sea and put islands on it.
Agreed. An earthquake or some other disaster could raise a lot of ground out of the water. It could be islands, a larger beach (which could uncover something???) or both. A chunk of land could even become flooded in the process; Neocron could have certain zones knee deep in water. There are lots of possibilities with this game and that’s what makes it a great game, but possibilities and potential are no good unless they're developed.
I bet Snow wished he'd never written anything!
what a Rantathon ...
But in essence most of the comments here are bang on.
We all love the game or why would we comment on how to improve it?
I feel we just want to bring it into 2006+ even if it's kicking and screaming!!
Whats needed? New engine, 10T (http://www.elsewhere-entertainment.com/technology.htm) owns one! just give them a nudge :cool: , Greater expanse of lands, bugs ironing out, Faction rethink, Storyline, Item distribution .....yadda ..yadda.
I honestly think that none of this will ever materialise as it's allowed to wither and die or become so "niche" that you get less players than i would on a private server.
10T would have to have a reason to invest the large amounts of cash to port, well rebuild the game entirly onto a new engine and with KK's current team this could take forever as its a very small team.
However the interest in Neocron is although it dosnt seem it - massive, thee's just too many things that need ironing out to keep the people. So, who wants to help go bug 10T for a licence for their new engine and a year or so worth of a 100+ coding team :p if the flavour of the game was carried over with things completely improved people would be back in swarms to play the game. ReaKKtor alone just dont have the resources for a complete move onto a new generation platform as Neocron 2 would deffinetly have to go without updates for the duration.
Rock - ReaKKtor - Hard Place :p
A move to a new environment would also open the oppurtunity for things to all of a sudden get much further appart with more locations (which would have always existed, just never visited, of course) in between :p
Could it be that your approach towards game limited by its engine or "Technical framework" is weakened and restrained by so many limitations that all you can do is play with internal components with out improving a thing?
The Tektonic engine, as it is currently in use for Neocron Evol 2.1, has been upgraded and extended several times already. The original version had far less performance and so was upgraded for our needs. Apart from this an engine cannot be upgraded and extended as often as you like. There are technical limits you have to work within. Of course you could redo the whole engine but this is no option for Neocron as you just don't code a new engine within a few weeks. Using an external engine is also no option as all game content would have to be remade too, to fit the different technical conditions.
I think KK does not see Neocron as a viable product anymore ... you do not want to invest in it to make it profitable. You neglected whole innovation process all together.
Neocron was never meant to be a mass-market product. It is and will always be a niche game. We had a vision to create a game - from players for players and so we did. We know that we cannot compete with big players like WoW but this was never the goal we were aiming at. Neocron was and will always be the underdog but that is what makes it that attractive to many players.
What impact do you expect from a few weapon and spell fixes that we needed for so long? Great numbers of new players? Joy on veteran’s faces? Well, you might get second one, but I doubt you will get more new players.
The balancing project won't be just a few weapons and spell fixes. The whole system is being redone to make PvP and PvE more attractive again. We had players leaving the game as they were not satisfied with the current PvP system and they are only one target group we are aiming at. Of course new players will also benefit from this rebalancing project.
I bet Snow wished he'd never written anything!
No, it is my job to care about your concerns, critiques, suggestions and ideas. I do not bear a grudge towards any one. As long as the discussions stay constructive, of course. ;)
Amazed that someone has actually replied and answered a few questions.
Good job Snow.
You've been here almost as long as I have - I couldn't help but laugh. Define "rolling along" for me. The highest populations were at the release of NC1 in Q4 of 2002 and the release of NC2 in Q4 of 2004, which was lower than NC1s release. I'm not being negative here, I'm being realistic. What, in regards to KK's realistic budget and manpower, could possibly happen at this point to get NC2 "rolling along" with 3-4 populated servers?
The engine simply isn't competition to today's standards - Unreal 3, Source, Doom 3, real vehicle physics, precise object collision detection, rag doll physics, lower/removed zone loading times - the game itself needs a new engine.
The design is great, but the implementation isn't so much flawed, but bound by the engine. If I were a betting man, I'd be saying just enjoy NC for what it is, smile at the little improvements that will make it in in the next 12-18 months, and keep hoping for NC3 on a new engine with many of NC/NC2's promised-but-not-delivered features.
qft
/returns to lurking
Neocron was never meant to be a mass-market product. It is and will always be a niche game. We had a vision to create a game - from players for players and so we did. We know that we cannot compete with big players like WoW but this was never the goal we were aiming at. Neocron was and will always be the underdog but that is what makes it that attractive to many players. Why wasn't it the goal? You think this game is completely different from AO? This to me, just seems like a copout and makes it sound like you guys never really believed in the games' real potential.
Why couldn't this game have made it mass-market?. I've played the damn game for years, among probably 15 other MMO's. Neocron being an underdog game has two things to do with it's success, jack and shit. Noone sits there and goes to a shelf at Bestbuy and looks at a product and says "You know what, that's a real underdog game, I think i'll buy it." The original content, the players, the feel and control of your character, the map and setting is what made people love this game.
Don't blaim Neocron failure to reach it's potential on it just being some niche game. You think there's 50,000 other Space MMO's out there like EVE? How many players do they have online at once now, 25000? You guys decided to do business with CDV, a pretty much unknown and questionable company. They threw up a few ads in PCGamer and some logos on Fileplanet and gave themselves a pat on the back and raises all around. You failed to provide a safe and respected company to market and show the world your game. The "mass-market" failed to even notice you because of it.
Then, how many payment systems out there are there? You guys choose the one with poor user reviews and even quoted many times by public user reviews as being a shady company, and very problematic.
Then take a look at the game leadership. Straight out of the gates you guys were already working on an expansion when you had a decent start for a game. You threw out content and act as if it was a finished product never needing changed or upgraded. Instead of making the mission system even remotely respectable, the outpost system actually have a point to it. Then after that, what do you guys do instead of working on the problems at hand and satasfying your customers needs? You come out with Neocron 2.0. Only reason it received any anticipation was because people believed KK would get their stuff together. And thats not me trying to get a low blow in, thats quoted from a whole mass of people.
You guys were so damn worried about spitting out content and more content you ignored the real issues this game faced; creating a solid base for the game which to improve upon. I mean christ, you guys didn't even need to come up with ideas to further and improve the game. You had so many loyal and loving fans dishing out terrific ideas and suggestions only to have Reakktor smile and nod.
Call it all construct criticism. I've no intention to try and insult or demean this company.
As has happened in the past, I'd appreciate it if you would not rush to CDV's defense. You realize I do go back a long ways, and still freshly remember CDV mocking and demeaning your company in private to a few of your customers.
Dribble Joy
11-08-06, 15:50
I've no intention to try and insult or demean this company.
Fuck off you don't.
Given your 'constructive' criticism in this thread alone, the above statement is laughable quite frankly. Every single aspect of their behaviour you have strongly denounced as either stupid, defencive, plain wrong, childish, unprofessional and a number of other things I could care to mention, and all at the same time in most cases.
Whether you are right or not is irrelevant, either say what you mean or not, eitherway don't sling in rather half-hearted attempts to seem 'honourably honest'.
It's a discussion on past issues and actions. Simply because they're depicted in a negative light does not mean i'm here to insult Reakktor.
It's a discussion on past issues and actions. Simply because they're depicted in a negative light does not mean i'm here to insult Reakktor.
If you insult or not, to a good degree, depends on how you decide to write your postings.
I've seen and even made criticism in the past where somebody was told a huge list of what he did wrong and that he is a jerk and even worse, and still, due to the way it was written, the person had to smile and say "thank you for your advice."
Your posting, on the other hand, is quite straightforward in nature and has a somewhat insulting undertone. Since you emphasize that you don't want to insult, i assume that it was just a small slip, but i'd advise to also check not only for the content but also for the tone of a posting before going into a heated up topic. After all, the message is easier heard and more attention is paid to the contained facts if no emotions are carried along.
I just wished to make my intentions known.
I am in no way a model customer. I've outright flamed kk in the past, and etc. I still don't agree with the way things were run, and because I care about this game i'm unhappy about it, or I was. So now I just have strong feelings about the issue.
Either way, that was stuff on the past. I'm a bit more older and maturer now. If Nidd or some KK staffer wants to remove my posts they can feel free to do so. I will not object. Removing what i've said doesn't make any truth to them go away, nor has it changed how people feel about Reakktors' choices. In the end I have a level of respect for KK, even Joerg for taking on this project. And am sure as hell greatful to have betatested this game in the past
Neocron was never meant to be a mass-market product. It is and will always be a niche game. We had a vision to create a game - from players for players and so we did. We know that we cannot compete with big players like WoW but this was never the goal we were aiming at. Neocron was and will always be the underdog but that is what makes it that attractive to many players.
Reading that just made me sad. Somewhere in my head, I was hopping at least the Reakktor still held on to this ideal. But I guess somewhere along the lines they can to terms with reality. But ... their project was never about reality to begin with now was it? I guess the real question of all questions, that every player current and senior regardless if they hate the game or don't will want to know is this:
Are there real plans or ambitions brewing in the Reakktor labs to create the next generation Neocron?
We need to know, we must know, do not worry about making promises you are not sure to keep because we the community are already used to this. And this very well could be the best unsure promise you'll ever make.
--
Photcron
All you people going on about "just getting a better engine" don't understand. You can't just swap the graphics engine and leave everything else intact. Unless you are moving on to a newer generation of the existing engine (and even that isn't EASY) you can't just swap the engine like that. You have to sit down and redo well, almost all your code. You probably have to completely remake all the maps. You almost certainly have to repackage all the textures and models, and possibly redo some of them. It would be effectivley starting the game over again, and even if KK could afford that (which I suspect they can't), I would personally be very unhappy with all development on the existing game to stop while they work on a new version which would almost certainly need another €30-40 shelling out for but would probably actually have LESS content.
I would really like a genuine FPS combat environment mind, but I suppose we have to accept that isn't going to happen and instead we have a system that in fact shares a lot more in common with standard RPG fare than you'd think at firsst glance.
I am intrigued as to what KK really do intend for the future, as it seems in all honesty that Neocron is running them into the ground with a vicous cycle that they can't escape. So, seeing as they seem bound to the game, where do they really want it to go?
Bishop Yutani
12-08-06, 15:10
yeah we wouldnt get any patches for a year, two, three... that would suck
So it kinda sounds like a lose/lose situation. If they don't have the resources to apply to fixing the game as is, they def dont have it to apply to fixing today AND working for a new version for tomorrow.
It'll be interesting to see what happens when that elvion game comes out. Then i'm sure we'll see if KK sucks at the MMO genre, or is moving on to other, less cursed projects than nc.
Snow's on a hiding to nowhere on this thread and probably hates me now for leaving it to him. ;)
The facts are that you have to approach the market with a game-plan and if you get that game-plan wrong you don't survive. Our game-plan was to be here for the long haul and to provide a game that evolves over time to the best of our ability given the scale of our operation. If we'd gone for the big-bang approach we wouldn't be here now, working on the next evolution of our product.
To say that Neocron doesn't have a strong cyberpunk feel proves that you don't understand the meaning of cyberpunk or you're making the mistake of believing that everyone else should share your own subjective views on the genre. Let's look at a definition from Wikipedia:
Cyberpunk (a portmanteau of cybernetics and punk) is a sub-genre of science fiction which focuses on computers or information technology, usually coupled with some degree of breakdown in social order. The plot of cyberpunk literature often revolves around the conflict between hackers, artificial intelligences, and megacorps, tending to be set within a near-future dystopian Earth, rather than the 'outer space' locales prevalent at the time of cyberpunk's inception. ...
If you don't think that ties in with Neocron then you're just here to blow smoke. Let's look at someone else's definition, just in case you thought I cherry picked the best one:
A subgenre of Science Fiction; this deals with the effect of the internet/virtual reality/cloning/etc. (ie, plausible science fiction) within a Dark Science Fiction setting. Generally set in the near future, often with psychadellic effects, often dangerous morality.
The rest of the complaints are all about comparing us to other games. These arguments have been trotted out so many times in the past that they mean nothing anymore. Whether you choose to believe or not there still isn't any game out there that compares and if you think that something like Huxley is going to do it then maybe you should check out some of the opinions of the people who have actually played it, for example:
Huxley – Here was a game that promised a MMOFPS using the Unreal 3 engine. What I saw in their booth was an uninspired dime a dozen FPS that looked more like Unreal 2. It certainly didn’t look anything like the stunning video they released a few months back. The PR machine for this game is in full effect but it’s all smoke and mirrors. There’s no game there, at least not yet.
We aren't anywhere near finished with Neocron, so don't make the mistake of writing us of just yet. ;)
N
are there any plans to re-work the OP war system after balancing?
The facts are that you have to approach the market with a game-plan and if you get that game-plan wrong you don't survive. Our game-plan was to be here for the long haul and to provide a game that evolves over time to the best of our ability given the scale of our operation. If we'd gone for the big-bang approach we wouldn't be here now, working on the next evolution of our product.I think all we've really wanted from your guys' gameplan was improving what already existed, instead of throwing new shiny toys at us and a competant publisher to better get the word out. None of that requires a big bang approach, and i'm pretty sure the game would have had a LOT better customer satasfaction and population than it does now.
We aren't anywhere near finished with Neocron, so don't make the mistake of writing us of just yet.I still hold some hope. I just hope the majority of Scifi MMO fans haven't already heard of this game, or tried it and been turned off, and that there's some 'resources' left to tap for new players when Reakktor's ready to release a better working version of the game.
You've obviously missed the entire meaning of what I've said. I've stated that yes, you can consider this Cyberpunk. But is it a dense cyberpunk atmosphere? I've read countless Cyberpunk novels, I've played Cyberpunk games run by Cyberpunk/RP enthuisiasts. Does this game give a Cyberpunk feel and true to the essence of Cyberpunk? To me atleast, and i'm sure to many others the answer is no.
I strike one cord on a violin, does that make me a violinist? Technically yes, but in reality? No.
But like I've also mentioned. Maybe i've been spoiled by other game that have dedicated themselves to promoting the Cyberpunk feel and my standards are just pretty high.
And let's be honest here, it's really hard to promote a topnotch roleplay environment in MMO's today. With no real selection on the type of people you'll allow in your MMO and with such a competitive market, people that are detrimental to the RP environment are allowed to spoil it, and can't exactly be turned away. But I believe KK has done their part to make the roleplay experience present in this game, from events, down to some other faction roleplay I vaguely remember from awhile back.
The rest of the complaints are all about comparing us to other games.That was nothing more than showing that what was said was some lame attempt at a copout/excuse.
I also don't think Huxley will be anywhere near it either. I don't think anything will really touch Neocron for quite some time. i'll try not to get into another rant, but just look at MMO's today. Look what sells, and what's been sold. Fantasy MMO's. And that's what keeps coming out? The stuff that sells. Luckily for us the Germans came to the rescue :P
Does this game give a Cyberpunk feel and true to the essence of Cyberpunk? To me atleast, and i'm sure to many others the answer is no.
At least you're now admitting that the belief is subjective, unlike your frankly un-called for response to SnowCrash earlier.
I absolutely respect your opinion and I respect that you (and others) don't care for Neocron's treatment of the cyberpunk genre. To expect that we could please everyone is to expect the impossible so all we can do is to try to improve the experience for as many people as we can.
You say that all you want is for us to improve what already exists rather than throwing shiny new toys at you, and that's precisely what we're doing right now.
N
alright, put down the weapons and pester KK to give me an answer.
So this is the bottom line. Right now Reakktor holds the most experience in - and furthermore the only - MMO FPS CyberPunk niche. They must take action by reason of Neocron's aging technology.
No matter what balancing is done and how ever brilliant the new textures and skins may appear, the core fundamental network requisites of Neocron are not par even to a game 8 years old from this date. The network structure can not support large op battles and dense trade zones without complications. No amount of updates or evo releases will change the fact the engine strains to render itself let alone maintain synchronization with other clients.
Everything about the design of Neocron show that you, the developer, live and breath cyber punk. This genre is instilled far too deep within to start working on another fantacy MMO clone. Notice the reality, if Neocron goes down, so will 10actale and all those employed must find a new game to earn an income.
So if you want to start designing pretty dragons and fancy swords then do nothing. But if you want to wake up in the morning again, excited as heck to continue working on a project that fits every crack of your imagination and ambition then take this niche you so firmly have grasp on and thrust it to the next level before another studio does it for you, without you.
Don't just not let the game die but begin a path for the new Neocron genus!
--
Photcron
Well, dense suggests going above and beyond putting in some CP elements.
To me would say that they've actively gone and have tried to promote and improve the feel of the genre.
You say that all you want is for us to improve what already exists rather than throwing shiny new toys at you, and that's precisely what we're doing right now.I don't follow the forums too much, so may have missed certain tidbits here and there. But after this whole balance thing, what about other areas of the game? Will outposts be given more of a value? i mean hell, even at the game's peak there were too many outposts. The simple fact that everymajor clan could have one of each type back then shows right there that it gives leeway for detering conflict. There should be an inherent need or desire for some outposts other than the pokemon phrase "gotta collect em all!".
Also, no expansion or anything is currently being worked on?
EDIT:
Not really an expert on engine tech, but to
No matter what balancing is done and how ever brilliant the new textures and skins may appear, the core fundamental network requisites of Neocron are not par even to a game 8 years old from this date. The network structure can not support large op battles and dense trade zones without complications. No amount of updates or evo releases will change the fact the engine strains to render itself let alone maintain synchronization with other clients.That's stuff that couldn't just be fixed with time, or are we talking total engine overhaul or new engine entirely?
Apocalypsox
12-08-06, 20:40
reading through some of the first posts...its really too bad we cant put a ad with 30 seconds or so of game time with the MB music in the background as someone stated...it would probly attract alot of players tired of carebear shit in games like WoW and Runescape and the such. Any members of the community got a few thousand spare dollars to throw around? 8|
reading through some of the first posts...its really too bad we cant put a ad with 30 seconds or so of game time with the MB music in the background as someone stated...it would probly attract alot of players tired of carebear shit in games like WoW and Runescape and the such. Any members of the community got a few thousand spare dollars to throw around? 8|
Runescape is ruthless... i lost count of the number of 9-15 yearolds i have made cry and (we can only hope) go n top them selfs by winning big stakes and dules and cleaning there acount leaving them with nothing left for many years work ^_^
runescape isnt carebear =P runescape is hardcore point n click =P if rs was first person then it would be the only game online beacuse everbody would quit every other game to play it
Notice the reality, if Neocron goes down, so will 10actale and all those employed must find a new game to earn an income.
Look .. I know you havent really been arround of late... but heh - think about that again.
10tacle employs approx. 170 developers, they now own decent "nextgen" middleware (thanks to various takeovers of small developer-studios). 10tacle has very good growth opportunities on the asian market and due to their successful financing strategy via large gamefunds also a lot of potential to raise more money vai the asian expansion.
10tacle has more than just one AAA title down the road, with millions invested and an expected turnover of more than 75m 'til 2008- do you really think that the fait of neocron will have a big impact on this company? 10tacles well being will more likely relate to the success of Elveon - that's where their money went.
Apart from that, what snow said might be disillusioning for some - but its nothing new really. Neocron was always scaled different (smaller) than most mainstream MMOs, yet it has a lot of potential to do heaps better. I hope KK will continue to listen to what the community asks for and pay attention to the input provided - it's crucial for the survival of such a small project. Frequent progress is also something that's been a hindering factor to NC in the past ...there's too little changes/updates to keep the ever popular "we're doomed" mentality shut.
Anyway - playercounts are slowly rising after the summer break - a chance for KK to once again lift the subscriptions above the "critical-mass".
We'll see what happens... but heh - NC2 is a tough lil' bugger and I dont see it disappear anywhere soon.
Just as a BTW, Strife, are you the same Strife who's the lead moderator for Face of Mankind? Honest question.
N
Just as a BTW, Strife, are you the same Strife who's the lead moderator for Face of Mankind? Honest question.
N
thats gotta be a rethorical question - of course its teh same strife ... "Lead Mod" over at that dying wannabe NC-Killer :p
You know he is, Nid :)
Scaramanga
13-08-06, 01:02
From a consumer's viewpoint Neocron needs to do something. The recent balancing project is a step in the right direction, but the timescale it is happening over (due to whatever circimstances) is long enough to allow gamers to cancel their subs for a short while (as I have). I'm guessing that isn't too good for the balance sheet.
Soon as this evo2.2 is patched in I (and I supsect many others) will reactivate. How long it stays active for depends upon how stable and non exploitable the game is.
As far as alternatives are concerned I honestly havent found any multiplayer as good as this (admittedly I haven't tried the SS2 mod). Don't get me wrong, it's not a case of me having to play games or I can't function. Neocron is well worth the time and money for playing it for the enjoyment, but unless there is sufficent reason to play then people simply won't.
Bottom line is a new planfile would be nice.
Yeah that's me. I'm usually a more well mannered person. I just love the fuck out of this game, and i'm opinionated.
So a lot of past things really peeve me that have hurt the game. I woudn't really care if Reakktor stopped working on new code altogether if we just had the playerbase availible to make the game more alive.
Nor is FoM dying. It's going pretty well considering their marketing campaign hasn't even begun. I wouldn't call it an NC killer either. Like mentioned either, nothing out there is really like Neocron. FoM's just another niche game, love it or hate it.
I had a PCgamer magazine home like 5 yrs ago, dont remember well how it ended up there since i didnt game back then,hell, i didnt even owned a computer.
So I saw this review for NC and it was kindof a negative review, but i tought the game looked fun anyways. On the picture you could see a stylish copbot in a red lite district. The guy revieing the game said ; "I had fun beta testing .... errrr playing neocron"
To me that meant the game had technical flaws, but still was fun.
So a few yrs later i got myself a PC and tried the NC2 beta thing.
I loved it.
Just the feel of the game had me playing it for like 12 hours a day !
And i wasnt even that much of a hardcore gamer before that. I had played like FF7 and other stuff, but those game get old because of lack of content.
I also had tried stuff like CS in netcafe, but i seriously cant play 12 hours of CS, only because it gets boring.
Now looking at what NC1 was and what NC2 brought, i feel like the priority for KK was preventing the game to be exploited/hacked.
For all games out there ppl exploit them and even go as far as using 3rd party programs to get in-game advantages. Neocron was no exeption.
But for some reason, maybe technical flaws of the engine itself, or maybe a cyberpunk game attracts "hackers", whatever it is, i think getting the situation under control was KK's priority.
I would even go as far as suspecting neocron2 upgrade to be just a way to implement new security mesures and make sure nothing that had been "hacked/cheated" stayed in-game.
Seeing now in the recent news about the massive banning of accounts, i would belive KK is getting confident that it can provide a fair gameplay for all neocron customers/players.
Obviously ethics goes first on the priorities list.
Then comes game balancing, wich we are seeing happen right now.(i guess what sets the priority is the need to bring "fair and equal gameplay for all users")
And for right now,the game can still deliver fun, and truly is the only game that deserves the cyberpunk label.
As for me i have left for some times before, and im not as hardcore as i used to be (i play around 20 hours a week) but i still get my money's worth, so ill be here for now, and ill be here for 2.2 as well.
Also the fact that ppl have complained about the game's balnce both in-game and in the forums, and seeing now whats going on with the balancing project, i have to admit it gives me hope for NC.
The only thing i would wish is for the player numbers to rise a bit. On that note, i think killing neptune and mercury would be a great move, and making a 1 slot and 4 slots international servers. This could really be KK's next move after the balancing project is done.
I think reviving Neptune with a "True" PVP only element to it.
You start your char capped, put in all the points yourself.
Plaza 1, or the safezone in DOY is the "Loading zone" which has NPC's selling all Imps +weapons at 0 nc.
A KK controlled autoimplanter NPC sitting at the side.
The same neptune rules applying with SL + Si.
I think this "true" PVP side to Neptune, if put into play, would bring back loads of people just to play this server, without the need of hours of lvling.
The other servers could be classed as an RP element of server, or KK could change the game on the other servers to make it seem...different but fair.
Yeah that's me. I'm usually a more well mannered person. I just love the fuck out of this game, and i'm opinionated.
So a lot of past things really peeve me that have hurt the game. I woudn't really care if Reakktor stopped working on new code altogether if we just had the playerbase availible to make the game more alive.
Nor is FoM dying. It's going pretty well considering their marketing campaign hasn't even begun. I wouldn't call it an NC killer either. Like mentioned either, nothing out there is really like Neocron. FoM's just another niche game, love it or hate it.
They let you moderate something? zomg...glad they didn't ask me for a reference :p <3
nidd, please ban danae out of professional curtesy
;)
lol i love you strife! in a big sister no tongue sorta way!
Bishop Yutani
13-08-06, 15:23
two things
1) There are girls in here?!?!? Like... REAL ones? I once saw these two characters playing "girlfriends" in plaza 1. I was like, you two boys need to get some magazines or something...
2) Nobby, that would be a fun idea to redo neptune like that, but no one would want to go back to terra and grind if they could have everything on neptune.
Funny story, apparently NC was originally supposed to be something like that, with everything happening in neofrag.
Clive tombstone
13-08-06, 20:29
Wow, Im glad I made this thread, this is actually getting our mods and peoples to talk! Anywho, my other question that was tickin away at me, was whatever happen to the "Public competitions" that were happening a while ago? Like the Player created skins and character models contest (Im not so sure it was character models though, but anywho) And also other things like that? I also remember someone winnin that but I dont remember if the skin got int \=P.
Also, Since were on the stand point of how and where NC stands, I have a question for KK. What is there stance on expanding there assets (IE there development, programming, art teams.. ect) in the future once elvion is done, to give some idea of a timeline or date?
Neocron was never meant to be a mass-market product. It is and will always be a niche game. We had a vision to create a game - from players for players and so we did. We know that we cannot compete with big players like WoW but this was never the goal we were aiming at. Neocron was and will always be the underdog but that is what makes it that attractive to many players.
Ok, so why making an enhanced market/construction/tradskill system ??
Many times i just logout because there is no poker around.
The game should be adapted to the current population ! Maybe the game was never meant to be a mass-market product.... but admit it doesn't work *well* in the current situation. I'm ok that the game has a "soul", but currently it's a bit wasted !
My global view about the game is "i love the game but there is a waste of a so big potential and fun". It's frustrating. I assume that a game is never perfect. but i cannot really feel there is anything done to make it better (i mean at games basics, ergonomy, bugfixes, solution to low population) by the time (long long time), that's my feelings.
When i read things like that: "Neocron was and will always be the underdog but that is what makes it that attractive to many players." , i somehow feel that you are asleep on a past past concept that by chance is still ""working"" now, so nothing is really done at base because player are happy.
my feelings is there is a lack of ambition behind all of these. maybe i'm wrong, but as a customer that's what i can see : as example i recently (one month) i've opened tickets to the helpdesk and i never seen any reply.
You say it's destined to be a small game, but i feel like a customer of a huge enterprise... when i open a GM ticket, there is an answer when i'm offline, and the answer is an automatic reply bot and the ticket closed, the problem still exists but... it's closed... - it's boring.
Make neocron background, foreground, customer services - and what you say more coherent, please !
And thank you for officials answers !
So is Snowcrash afraid to even touch any of these replies?
No, I am not afraid. I answered the questions Clive and the others had. I won't make the mistake and go into any word battles again. Regarding the last question he had, I cannot say anything about asset expansion at the current time and that we are not developing Elveon. Elveon is being developed by 10Tacle Bratislava and only our web department is working on their product page.
No, I am not afraid. I answered the questions Clive and the others had. I won't make the mistake and go into any word battles again. Regarding the last question he had, I cannot say anything about asset expansion at the current time and that we are not developing Elveon. Elveon is being developed by 10Tacle Bratislava and only our web department is working on their product page.
At least you have my player point of view. Thanks for reading.
Notice the reality, if Neocron goes down, so will 10actale and all those employed must find a new game to earn an income.
... Look .. I know you havent really been arround of late... but heh - think about that again. ... 10tacle has more than just one AAA title down the road, with millions invested and an expected turnover of more than 75m 'til 2008- do you really think that the fait of neocron will have a big impact on this company? 10tacles well being will more likely relate to the success of Elveon - that's where their money went.
Think about that again ^^
Elveon is being developed by 10Tacle Bratislava and only our web department is working on their product page.
--
Photcron
Ehhh, Photcron: http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=135234&page=1
Most notably page 13 of this PDF (http://www.equitystory.com/download/Companies/tacle/VeranstaltungenDownloads2/SES_10TACLE_STUDIOS_AG_23062006_eng_final.pdf).
Now, technically you're right if NC dies 10T staff that are working on NC will have to find a new -game- but they won't be out of a job, far from it from what I can see.
I dont see the point you're trying to make with that last post of yours, photcron... you say "if nc goes down, so will 10tacle" ...which is simply a mere joke, taking into account that neocron is only a tiny fraction of what 10tacle is build on. If neocron goes down - which wont happen so soon - 10tacle will reassign those working on NC to other projects. They already have their different developer studios work together where applicable (e.g. KK webdept working on other 10tacle websites, KK artdept working on a 10tacle asia project while focus is on codechanges/balancing with nc).
You start your char capped, put in all the points yourself.
Plaza 1, or the safezone in DOY is the "Loading zone" which has NPC's selling all Imps +weapons at 0 nc.
A KK controlled autoimplanter NPC sitting at the side.
The same neptune rules applying with SL + Si.
I think this "true" PVP side to Neptune, if put into play, would bring back loads of people just to play this server, without the need of hours of lvling.
2) Nobby, that would be a fun idea to redo neptune like that, but no one would want to go back to terra and grind if they could have everything on neptune.I don't know about that. Some players (many gone) took pride in developing their chars... Vet used to whine about the skillmanager progs cause he made his original chars from NF testing and number crunching, quite a few others did too. Nowadays it is about 'fastest to cap' but that is still an essential part of the game the way I look at it. Who was it with the 'levelling a noob is fun!' thread recently? I don't think any of our die hard PvPers here are afraid of levelling a new char, that's part of the fun.
And free items?? Fuck. Just play RTCW or CS ffs. :rolleyes:
I enjoy leveling droners lol......but then i am wierd
But then again u will neva see me leveling a monk, in my world they dont exist :angel:
My monk is still on 95 base PSI... and he's 2 years old... don't tell anyone! :eek:
lol you think thats bad i almost always play terra but i have no cap chars on this server but on mercury i have a caped apu (int 98) and a caped melee tank (con 97) i think
Apocalypsox
19-08-06, 09:13
heres my true thought on the thread title.
Reakktor thinks Neocorn is a peice of shit. they dont seem to like funding it much more, or they would transfer more devs to finishing things and advancing it.
dude what other game do you know to last this long and still have a good following even if they dont play nc they are still shit loads of peeps that love it for what it is
Dribble Joy
22-08-06, 04:57
My monk is still on 95 base PSI... and he's 2 years old... don't tell anyone! :eek:
DJ took 6 months to cap her con :p.
Though nearly all her xp is solo gained, not psi, that was capped back in TCO when we would go TH bot hunting :D.
For info: I opened a thread about Item Tracking, but it has been delete by someone ... so ... what to think now ?
Durandal|AI
22-08-06, 14:07
well the "itemtracking" was implemented and deactivated because it caused some problems on the live servers
and since that - they delete every post regarding it.
well the "itemtracking" was implemented and deactivated because it caused some problems on the live servers
and since that - they delete every post regarding it.
Thank you,
Yes instability are mentionned in the 2004's annoucement. I didn't know about posts delete.
For info: I opened a thread about Item Tracking, but it has been delete by someone ... so ... what to think now ?
I removed it precisely as I warned you I would in the PM before you wrote it. Your thread had nothing to do with item tracking and everything to do with your refusal to accept the support policies which have been explained to you by numerous GMs, support officials and finally myself.
The implementation of item tracking had serious implications on a number of other systems and had to be deactivated. Until such time as some major design changes occur to those other systems item tracking will have to remain parked. Those changes are not scheduled for the foreseeable future and until then we will maintain our published support policies which have been in place now for a number of years.
We're not thrilled about not being able to compensate you for lost items, but absolutely no one would be thrilled to find out that some people were compensated and others not. It's a harsh policy but it's fair and it's the only way to eliminate the cheating that went on prior to the policy being implemented.
N
Durandal|AI
22-08-06, 15:31
well N,
its still strange that some players get their appartments rerolled if they bug away and others dont get it..
its also strange that some ppl where moved to every genrep after a char reroll and others have to run and get them cuz the gm "is not allowed" to do that?!
the "policy" should be clearly understandable and should be the same (not only on the paper) for _everyone_ no matter who it is
well N,
its still strange that some players get their appartments rerolled if they bug away and others dont get it..
its also strange that some ppl where moved to every genrep after a char reroll and others have to run and get them cuz the gm "is not allowed" to do that?!
the "policy" should be clearly understandable and should be the same (not only on the paper) for _everyone_ no matter who it is
All of the listed support procedures are being handled by helpdesk and may not be handled by the GM team. If you are adressing your problems directly to a GM, the GM won't be able to help you in this cases. For serious matters is necessary to contact Helpdesk for a quick and proper problem solution.
Durandal|AI
22-08-06, 15:50
well but also the helpdesk handles things different (or lets say, the gms that are "allowed" to solve a problem after being told to fix it)
best example:
a clanmate from terra got a "green" modell. the helpdesk told him that he have to delete his char - make a new one and a gm will give him back his skills
first - he only gave him "lvl100" the 300million exp over the normal cap were gone (the gm wont replace it)
second - he told the runner (pure trade) that he had to get the genreps on himself (he wont warp him to the genreps
another clannie got nearly the same problem - the gm warped him to the genreps
i hope you now understand what i meant.
and tbh - the "green" model bug isnt the fault of the player - so he should get back "everything" he loses while KK fixes the problem - including the exp (so the gm should write down the exp points - not only the lvls.. since when do we have woc...)
I removed it precisely as I warned you I would in the PM before you wrote it. Your thread had nothing to do with item tracking and everything to do with your refusal to accept the support policies which have been explained to you by numerous GMs, support officials and finally myself.
The implementation of item tracking had serious implications on a number of other systems and had to be deactivated. Until such time as some major design changes occur to those other systems item tracking will have to remain parked. Those changes are not scheduled for the foreseeable future and until then we will maintain our published support policies which have been in place now for a number of years.
We're not thrilled about not being able to compensate you for lost items, but absolutely no one would be thrilled to find out that some people were compensated and others not. It's a harsh policy but it's fair and it's the only way to eliminate the cheating that went on prior to the policy being implemented.
N
You should make that a sticky and put it in the announcements forum. People forget that they've been given a reason after several months and start up fresh threads. Admitedly some people just push the issue but hey-ho.
You should make that a sticky and put it in the announcements forum. People forget that they've been given a reason after several months and start up fresh threads. Admitedly some people just push the issue but hey-ho.
The statement has been added to the 'KK Community Statements (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=134194)' thread in the Annoucements forum for future reference.
A direct link to the post can be found here (http://forum.neocron.com/showpost.php?p=2011492&postcount=11).
Triv
well but also the helpdesk handles things different (or lets say, the gms that are "allowed" to solve a problem after being told to fix it)
best example:
a clanmate from terra got a "green" modell. the helpdesk told him that he have to delete his char - make a new one and a gm will give him back his skills
first - he only gave him "lvl100" the 300million exp over the normal cap were gone (the gm wont replace it)
second - he told the runner (pure trade) that he had to get the genreps on himself (he wont warp him to the genreps
another clannie got nearly the same problem - the gm warped him to the genreps
i hope you now understand what i meant.
and tbh - the "green" model bug isnt the fault of the player - so he should get back "everything" he loses while KK fixes the problem - including the exp (so the gm should write down the exp points - not only the lvls.. since when do we have woc...)
This isn't the same issue though and is covered by a different support policy. A "green skin" character bug isn't loss of items, nor does fixing the character involve giving the player any new items. Since it's possible to verify the skills of the "green skin" character prior to creating the replacement it's not possible to "cheat the system" in this case. In any case, item tracking would not prevent or help to solve this kind of problem.
N
Durandal|AI
22-08-06, 17:35
that should be a example for the different "work" of the gms/helpdesk
sometimes they do things - sometimes they not.
that should be a example for the different "work" of the gms/helpdesk
sometimes they do things - sometimes they not.
Why?
If there a problem ingame, usually I start by putting a ticket in by using the ? in the top-right.
The GM's either can either resolve the problem, or they cannot. If they cannot, I'm sure they will tell you to contact helpdesk.
Durandal|AI
22-08-06, 19:35
great, 5 posts for a thing i could have said in 1 german sentence
i mean - different gms - different things they do
different helpdesk persons tell you different things
I removed it precisely as I warned you I would in the PM before you wrote it. Your thread had nothing to do with item tracking and everything to do with your refusal to accept the support policies which have been explained to you by numerous GMs, support officials and finally myself.
The implementation of item tracking had serious implications on a number of other systems and had to be deactivated. Until such time as some major design changes occur to those other systems item tracking will have to remain parked. Those changes are not scheduled for the foreseeable future and until then we will maintain our published support policies which have been in place now for a number of years.
We're not thrilled about not being able to compensate you for lost items, but absolutely no one would be thrilled to find out that some people were compensated and others not. It's a harsh policy but it's fair and it's the only way to eliminate the cheating that went on prior to the policy being implemented.
N
in PM, You said that you'll answer to the thread before closing it - you deleted it. And i was asking for an E.T.A, you don't exactly gave on. I was quoting a statement and it's mentionned item tracking was your priority.
The fact is my issue has something to do with item tracking, why do you refuse to admit that ? so of course i refuse the policy, when you know that item tracking is planned to be implemented for years ! It's too easy.
The problem nidhogg is there is absolutly nothing coming from NC's team side in these cases. Players can't spend there time to earn money, get items, loose them because of game's bugs and then nothing in return. I can't conceive it.
Is because i like playing the game, it magicaly erase all these frustrating issues ? no.
It's like I crash your car and they give it back to you saying "i'm afraid, you'll have to repair it yourself ... bye".
There are policies, and there is good way of being. You choose policies.
The implementation of item tracking had serious implications on a number of other systems and had to be deactivated. Until such time as some major design changes occur to those other systems item tracking will have to remain parked. Those changes are not scheduled for the foreseeable future and until then we will maintain our published support policies which have been in place now for a number of years.
Finally an admission! One of my major gripes against KK and their customer interaction somewhat lessened now.
Finally an admission! One of my major gripes against KK and their customer interaction somewhat lessened now.
That's the maximum i could obtain ^^
I've bugged them about item tracking for ages and never gotten more than well, absolutley nothing (and threads closed)
I'm gonna show my willingness to look stupid here and wager a guess as to why item tracking can't be done without a major overhaul.
The database for NC keeps a record of each item already but only the qualities of the item, not ownership, ownership is decided by the location of the object. For item tracking to work a tag would have to be added to each item indicating whether the location of the object gives ownership to a runner or not and another tag would have to be added based on that to determine each time ownership changes and yet another tag would have to be added that flags the item as 'decayed' so that a record is kept if someone just tosses something and it decays. This tag would determine whether the item decayed or simply disappeared. But this tag would also require duplication of the database records of every item in the game so that in the event of a database error that caused an item to be flagged as decayed there would be a record of that item kept, and this duplicated database would have to keep all items indefinitely.
Yeah I'm just making shit up but that's what I see as a possible hindrance to true item tracking that assures equal treatment for all players (no room for error)
I've bugged them about item tracking for ages and never gotten more than well, absolutley nothing (and threads closed)
As you say that i'm not alone, it's comforting me ! Thanks Cmaster ;)
Did you stop to play for a while after that ?
For instance when i think neocron, it give me nauseas - i got this phenomen in the past, but this time i'm close to stack :lol:
the worst thing is to know i'll relog one day and like it - it is not avoidable.
this game is a paradox.
RogerRamjet
22-08-06, 23:04
Finally an admission! One of my major gripes against KK and their customer interaction somewhat lessened now.
What? This information was available ages ago.
Especially after numerous peoples ultimated holy shelters and holy resurrects disapeared or changed stats immediately after the first implentation.
What? This information was available ages ago.
Especially after numerous peoples ultimated holy shelters and holy resurrects disapeared or changed stats immediately after the first implentation.
Nope. GMs would state if you bugged them item tracking wasn't active. But KK refused to discuss the issue elsewhere whatsoever. What I was after (and have been for a long time) was just KK coming clean that it wasn't ever (or at least forseable future) going to happen. What the reality was is that the last statement made pretty much was "It will be on within a few days".
And @ Calim - well, you possibly aren't but i havent mysteriously lost an item in a long, long time. Admittedly I have horribly misplaced a faction medal, but eventually I'll probably find it again. I certainly know that if I had it was never coming back again.
RogerRamjet
22-08-06, 23:21
It might just have been the people affected my the implementation who got that info. Thats just what i gleaned from my own experience (and after speaking to certain people).
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