View Full Version : [OT] Windows Vista
I dont know much about Windows Vista other then its the next step pasted Windows XP.. it looks sexy as hell.. with a new leap in power.. pushing the OS to use a Graphics Card to run ...it seems unlimited less. I have IE7.0 Beta 3 and I think there's a Vista test thing but I havent got it to work
Anywho.. anyone like it or interested in it or tried it ? How will this effect Games, can thing be even more complexed then they are now?
:D oh, an hello its been awhile :rolleyes:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/features/default.mspx
whats new except somewhat better looking interface... not much it looks to me... does anyone else have zero desire to upgrade...
i already use windows less and less and just for games, this does not look likely to make my regret that.
Windows Vista is basically XP re-written, in most areas, from the ground-up for better performance and stability, and even something we usually don't associate with Windows, security. As for the visuals, there's nothing that new. They've basically garbled up existing year-old ideas and put them together, personally I think Vista looks and feels disgusting with the default settings. The same reason I still use the Windows classic theme on WinXP. There's too much garbage information that I don't want to read every 2secs, unneccessarily wasting system resources, but some people need/want/like that I guess.
There's a hefty problem in the gaming area too. DirextX 10 (that improves and upgrades upon DX 9) is Vista-only, which is what's really going to make or in a lot of cases, force people to upgrade. Most upcoming games like Crysis will be making good use of DX10 and I'd rather spend my cash on PC hardware/games than waste money on the black hole called the Xbox (consequently my nephew has borrowed my Xbox for about 5months now and for all I care he can keep it lol). There's a hefty price difference. For example, The Xbox release of Prey retails at about £39.99, I paid a fiver for the PC version as soon as it came out. Similairly I got Hitman: Blood Money brand new out the shop for free.
I've not been arsed to buy Windows XP (still using Windows 2000 because I just hate Windows XP's ugly interface and awkward security settings - and I know I can disable the ugly interface). But I think I'll buy Windows Vista this time, for the sole purpose of games that will require it and of course the DX10 features. I have the Windows Vista Beta disc but I've not had the chance to try it yet, I think I'll install it on a Virtual PC some day when I feel like it.
The new GUI stuff just seems like a huge waste of system resources, fair enough i like an OS to look eye friendly and easily readable (i like the XP look) the stuff like 3d alt tabbing and glass effects on windows is really just a waste of system resources. If you look at Vista with it needing the uber rigs of today just to run and compare it to RISC OS which runs faster on 4-8meg of RAM. It just seems such a pointless exercise.
Although, RISC OS looks wank.
Hehe, I took the liberty to install Windows Vista and I got a few complaints.
First of all, the install requires 6.7gb free diskspace, this is not a problem on an empty harddrive today but when you already have partitions and not that much diskspace, it causes problems. So I created one at 7.2gb just in case, and then the install whined on not enough space to copy the damn temporary files! So I made a 16gb partition and I've just copied the files. Now it wants to EXPAND all those files and will eat up even more diskspace, rofl... We'll see if my install will even be able to install when it's done. 9.25gb left on drive and it's decreasing.
Install looks more nice than it's predecessors though!
And yeah, Windows Vista requires 512mb ram as well which is a pretty big requirement for an OS if I have to be honest.
Whats the reason for us not being able to use DX 10 on xp ?
Vista, doesn't look attractive to me, I don't want to pay for something that makes all your system windows look see through...
Waste?
maybe!
Whats the reason for us not being able to use DX 10 on xp ?Even though there will be a few other reasons, I'm sure the main one involves profit. People (me included) won't want to be left behind as far as the gaming industry is concerned. Playing games with even better graphics and physics than anything else you've seen is the only way forward, and Microsoft obviously know this, otherwise they wouldn't have gone in that direction with Vista, especially with the whole "Flip 3D" (another old idea they've ripped off I might add) baggage.
Making DirectX 10 Vista-only is certainly one way of making people upgrade and therefore spend cash buying the license in the process. Unfortunately most people will need to upgrade their hardware considerably to run it well. I feel sorry for the people on the Neocron forum who recently mentioned they've only just upgrade to very old cards like the GeForce 6200. They'll be in for a shock soon.
Well I got Windows Vista installed now, not sure what to do on it. Some negative stuff about it, like you can't scan for new hardware etc., it's all automatic and I hate that shit... GUI is easier and better than Windows XP I might add. Seems a bit slow though?
I was so bored that I made a picture in paint in Vista, but I am sure it will violate rules on this board so I better not post it ^^. But S2games (the makers of savage www.s2games.com - savage 2 ftw (beta soon w00t)!) liked it, I got proof!
[02:44:54] <&Valkyrie> ummmm
[02:44:59] <&Valkyrie> thats very...
[02:45:01] <&Valkyrie> good
[02:45:05] <&Valkyrie> yes very good
[02:45:05] <Ice_> I'm proud
[02:45:06] <&Valkyrie> :P
[02:45:13] <Ice_> Never done such artwork before!
[02:45:20] <Ice_> I'm going to upload it at deviantart now!
[02:45:21] <~S2Ryan> Hmm
[02:45:26] <~S2Ryan> Maybe we should get Ice on the team Valkyrie :P
[02:45:41] <&Valkyrie> I don't think we can afford him
[02:46:16] <Ice_> I charge $60 an hour
Windows Vista is basically XP re-written, in most areas, from the ground-up for better performance and stability, and even something we usually don't associate with Windows, security.
That's one of the main reasons Dx10 wasn't made for XP. It was completely re-written. XP is the natural outgrowth of 2k / NT. Vista is basically entirely new. DX10 follows the same evolution. DX9 was just DX8++, which was DX7++, etc etc. DX10 is entirely different, and although they COULD make it work on XP, it would cost them a lot of money. So they had two choices. Spend a lot of money and time to make DX10 work on XP (which would include a huge updates to XP, but just DirectX), or not spend that money and keep it Vista only, and actually increase sales of Vista while they're at it.
I wonder if dx10 will run Neocron engine well.
Hopefully it wount create more frequent crashes and bugs.
so i guess they will force me to upgrade with this DX10 shit. why would they even bother making it worth it when they can just force people with that sort of crap.
i hope it still has classic interface mode. it looks a little better then XP but that isn't hard.
i was using beta2 of ms vista, ran neocron. it was running great in my eyes, all drivers were pretty much stable (1 of 10 boots, it didnt found my usb-keyboard+usb-mouse, replugging helped allways // and the gfx-drivers (gf6800GT) were some kind of outdated/slow).
neocron ran pretty good on it, but within out of nothing it crashed coming to the char-selection screen. recopy my neocron-folder from my notebook didnt helped. so i switched my other hdd on with a clean xp install. works.
maybe i just need to reinstall vista for no reason i can imagine.
TBH, i directly disabled AERO(c), cause i dont like it and switched to Win2K-desktop theme with all defaults to best speed (xp got the same preformance options tab for visual effects).
Give it a little while. Vista will introduce some pretty important changes to the way Windows applications are developed and executed. Admittedly, most of those benefits will be backward compatible with XP. ;) Version 3 of Cronalyser is roadmapped to introduce support for Microsoft Expression, for example, and this technology will change the face of Windows apps. Mark my words...
N
as long as we have the option to turn off all system-resource-eating-crap then i'm happy. dunno why they bother with all the new interface crap, anyone who is too stupid to use the current one probably doesn't have a PC good enough to run the new one.
I couldn't find any option in the control panel anywhere to disable that annoying message that pops up and warns me EVERYTIME I start something. They've hidden it very well in it's all easyness :(.
basically, isnt vista designed to go with the 64 bit processor/boards ?
basically, isnt vista designed to go with the 64 bit processor/boards ?
erm... ? there's even a xp version out for 64bit. no clue, if vista might run on an itanium :)
i seem to remember someone saying that ms would make 2 new OSs, one for gamers and a normal one. guess that's not the plan any more:confused:
i seem to remember someone saying that ms would make 2 new OSs, one for gamers and a normal one. guess that's not the plan any more:confused:
Vista has 6 versions. The one with EVERYTHING in it, the Ultimate Version s apparantly what the gamers will want and dosnt for obvious reasons have a corporate version making pirate copies of the ultimate version a little tougher.
Windows Vista is a great attempt for yet another reason for Gates to get richer, therefore helping people more through his foundation, which is a good thing.
Aside this, it seems to miss a lot of things even though it's good to see at last that it uses fonts that are drawn on screen (not bitmapped that is, unless im wrong) and some aesthetic changes. (i fail to see the practicality of this 3d windows stacking) I do hope, that it will finally integrate basic apps that will help a home user manage his personal life easier but I doubt
so you want it to be more like a mac OS? :rolleyes: :lol:
Hehe, I took the liberty to install Windows Vista and I got a few complaints.
First of all, the install requires 6.7gb free diskspace, this is not a problem on an empty harddrive today but when you already have partitions and not that much diskspace, it causes problems. So I created one at 7.2gb just in case, and then the install whined on not enough space to copy the damn temporary files! So I made a 16gb partition and I've just copied the files. Now it wants to EXPAND all those files and will eat up even more diskspace, rofl... We'll see if my install will even be able to install when it's done. 9.25gb left on drive and it's decreasing.
Install looks more nice than it's predecessors though!
And yeah, Windows Vista requires 512mb ram as well which is a pretty big requirement for an OS if I have to be honest.
It might seem like a lot of diskapsce, but if u compare with win xp when u enable all that restore-functions win xp fully updated will eat up somewhere around 8 gigs easily.
However if u consider the price for harddrive space i dont think its any problem, last time i upgraded approx 2 months ago, i got 2x160GB Maxter SATA II disks for $150, they r running striped and only used for windows and installation, then i have a 300GB Maxtor ATA 133 drive for storage along with an older 120GB Maxtor ATA 133 drive, the 300GB drive is atm around $110 here.
Though one would be well equipped running those 2x160GB SATA II disks i think, even if windows vista decides to chew up 15GB of the drivespace, its like 5% only or $8 of harddrivespace, so i dont see the problem.
If u r running with a harddrive with a capacity that makes it a problem in any way to reserve 15Gigs of space for the OS, id not only say the drive must be small, but also a drive of that size must be incredibly slow too. ;)
The req of 512MB ram i dont think either is scaring in any way, cause elixir and/or kingston sells for approx $40 for 512Megs and before vista goes final the prices of harddrives and ram will be even lower than they r now.
I think most ppl today has at least 512MB ram as even win xp runs best with at least that amount and for gaming my experience is that u settle for 1Gig. :)
I don't like the idea that i would have to upgrade my hardware to make it run propertly. that's what i said for XP and i've upgrade two years after it came out, lol.
This time and to be honest i don't think it will be different, even if i really don't like that, this is too much RAM and disk space requirement. (and i don't believe that the hardware price is an argument when you see life time of currents parts).
more noisy hardware systems for bigger and bigger OS's... what does that mean ...
so you want it to be more like a mac OS? :rolleyes: :lol:
It's not that I want it. Gates wants it:
1. he is using this search function ala spotlight
2. finally i see fonts that draw on screen and not bitmap versions
more noisy hardware systems for bigger and bigger OS's... what does that mean ...
Mankind is getting closer and closer to building a truly intelligent machine.
Mankind is getting closer and closer to building a truly intelligent machine. but is the hardware getting better at a faster rate than the software is trying to eat our resources?
but is the hardware getting better at a faster rate than the software is trying to eat our resources?
in my opinion its keeping up well.
Well it is a time for change and you can dislike it or love but its gone happen.. just with CD Players. to DVD players to those "Blue Disk".. im still waiting for those mini-disk that holds like 100Gigs of space :lol: to come with computers
Anyway.. Im sure once the final release comes out ( cuz isnt it still in beta )? or sum shyt.. anyway.. im sure once the final release comes out any new feature users can think of and post or things they have that use up to much memory that can be removed or rewriten will be cleaned up ( i hope ) ...im thinking by now they know what they doing
As for games.. im sure not all games are going to force DX10, they'll hopefully work with DX9 -shrugs-
either way, im getting it.. i like new stuff and WinXP is still sexy lookin =P yall jus old fogies... wont stuff to look like 95 (kidding) but im sure it would use alot less memory... what kinda memory is it going to suck away and if the OS needs a graphis card to run.. is it going to help? shyt run better or put to much beat down on your graphics card
that said.. anyone know if Windows is signing with a Graphic Card company sense now new computer will most likely come with them? or will it work independent of the computer's manufacturer company. mmm
Though one would be well equipped running those 2x160GB SATA II disks i think, even if windows vista decides to chew up 15GB of the drivespace, its like 5% only or $8 of harddrivespace, so i dont see the problem.
If u r running with a harddrive with a capacity that makes it a problem in any way to reserve 15Gigs of space for the OS, id not only say the drive must be small, but also a drive of that size must be incredibly slow too. ;)
Using worlds fastest harddrive (I think it is, used to be anyway...) Raptor 10k rpm... 74gb max space, tons of gb's being used by installed games :(.
imo vista has nothing new that would interest a user by it's own if it wasn't for dx 10. the rest of the prog is just absolutely useless 3d desktop features and a huge copy protection system (which will surely be liked by the industry).
oh and btw windows is, has been and forever will be a clone of mac os :p
but isnt it coming with dx 10 wich isnt backward compatable so we will have to software emulate 7-8-9 meaning games will actualy run slower?
or am i waaay of the mark
Using worlds fastest harddrive (I think it is, used to be anyway...) Raptor 10k rpm... 74gb max space, tons of gb's being used by installed games :(.
:lol: ofcourse theres the extreme drives, i wasnt taking that into thought, but if the size is 74Gigs whats the problem with an OS that eats up 15Gigs of that?
On my system my SATA II (which runs on a SATA I ctrl) benchmarks to 104MB/sec which is more than enough for me, windows is loading fast and so does my programs, what slows the system most is antivirus software and regarding games, all the annoying screens at startup telling me that i shdnt play the game if i tend to suffer from epileptic seizures and so on.....hmmmm where'd i see that? :lol:
Everyone wants OS that r more stable, faster, provides more features and so on, and that unfortunately requires the hardware to grow along with it.
When i compare my old 386 back in 94 based on price, features and speed, i must admit, i get more speed and more features at a lower price today. ;)
The noise produced is very low i think, im running with a sempron 64 3000+ with box cooler, theres no noise from that outside my case, if i want to i can use the ThermalTake Sonic Tower which is fan free, but the only sinner i really have is the gfx card (Inno3D GeForce 6800) it makes just about enough noise so i can weakly hear it when i sit still and shut my mouth. ROFL
So my experince is better performance, less noise, more features and all at a way lower price than just a few yrs ago. ;)
I dont mind upgrading my system from time to time, it normally works for me so that i run with the same hardware for like 3 yrs and then partially upgrade the system depending on what im most in need of.
I choose it myself, but if i wanna use the new and better software, play the better games etc, im forced to upgrade, thats the nature of computer technology, its called development. hehe :angel:
Hehe, there's enough space on a fresh 74gb harddrive, but not when you still are using Windows 2000 on it with tons of games + programs installed already ;).
MuggleMind
01-08-06, 01:01
Vista does look fun. At least, the voice recognition (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y_Jp6PxsSQ) part does!
Must admit that I won't be switching, although I am glad to see that Microsoft is beginning to catch up with linux again :D . A real firewall finally, a desktop that may come close to XGL or AIGLX, and a search engine almost as capable as beagle. Pity that it will suffer even more from bloat than previous versions of windows!
Hmm, that voice thingy reminded me a lot of "Dragon Naturally Speaking". I bet the guy had forgot to actually do the required tests before trying the voice recognition.
From what I have seen from those videos, vista do seem like yesterday's news. An OS in development for all these years and yet nothing new to bring.
Like Nick said, it might be a revolution to programmers or in general a revolution for geeks, but we must not forget that PCs are not only used by hi end programmers, they are also used by average Joes.
This 3d environment with live windows stacked in space like this, is an hymn to complexity, bad aesthetics and bad functionality in general. I can imagine one of those brainstorms from people lacking the skills, where one brought in the table the idea of this, after viewing maybe that film with Tom Cruise. All I can say is: bleh (and btw I'm already enjoying these effects and even more with OSX, which has yet to crash ... a single crash...)
Dribble Joy
01-08-06, 08:23
Does this mean that if I want to play a game with dx10, I HAVE to get Vista?
Dribble Joy
01-08-06, 09:31
*mails urine sample to Mr Gates*
I hope you mailed it in an orange juice labelled container instead of a transparent plastic bag. :rolleyes:
*mails urine sample to Mr Gates* there's a lot of people who feel the same way, which is why it won't take long for cracked versions to come out
but isnt it coming with dx 10 wich isnt backward compatable so we will have to software emulate 7-8-9 meaning games will actualy run slower?
or am i waaay of the markOnly just saw that while skipping through page 3, so sorry for not posting earlier. :p You're almost right. They're not supporting anything lower than DX9. One of the reasons being that they did Desktop and its 3D features using DX9. The next version or upgrade of Vista will be using DX10, because by then everyone should have caught up in terms of hardware and therefore the ability to run it. The other versions of DX will have to be software emulated.
what's the estimated price for it? i'm not used to buying OSs...mainly just borrowed disks/got them with PCs
It's not been confirmed yet I don't think, but rumours keep appearing all over the place that they're going to make it the same price as Windows XP is at the moment, about $99, to try and keep the price down, so to speak (they could charge quite a lot more than $99 i'm sure, and for all we know, they might), while possibly encouraging the update. No idea really.
pay..... for.... operatingsystem......
sorry you lost me sumwhere :angel:
nc doesn't need dx10, so you don't need vista :p
Also i think most of the mmorpgs currently in development won't use it so if one of them happens to be good, you won't have to get vista for another 2 years
Here's some news that is suprisingly ontopic: http://uk.gamespot.com/features/6154735/index.html?sid=6154735
Most importantly:
Vista will come with DirectX 10 and DirectX 9.0L. Older games will function by using DirectX 9.0L, and should, in theory, work fine. Microsoft has stated that games made for Windows XP will function, but games from the days of Windows 98 and DOS probably don't have much of a chance.
Oh the other important bit is that is plays Command & Conquer Red Alert II :D
so what is dx10 actually good for?...
so what is dx10 actually good for?...
Newer games.
It'll allow for new technologies to work more efficiently and add new features and stuff allowing new cards to have more features.
More than likley physics cards will benefit the most from dx10 id assume.
Some bollocks like that, lol i could very well be talking out of my arse.
i suppose good physics would be nice, but i still think we're a long way off having the hardware to cope with fully destructable enviroments, which is the only thing it's really good for :lol:
i suppose good physics would be nice, but i still think we're a long way off having the hardware to cope with fully destructable enviroments, which is the only thing it's really good for :lol:
For that purpose we have PhysX cards and they're also being further developed while we await Win Vista to lauch. ;)
For that purpose we have PhysX cards and they're also being further developed while we await Win Vista to lauch. ;) i think they'll need to completely re-invent them considering that currently all they do is slow games down
I was also under the impression that Vista was a 64-bit OS with 32-bit support
and not the other way around as is with XP/XP64.
The DRM/Trusted Computing stuff in Vista does kind of suck though. It's been
a while since I read anything about it so I don't know what's there atm and
what's not.
I actually decided to install Neocron on Vista (Beta 2 of course) after someone said it seemed to run a lot better and for me at least it appears they're right. In regards to syncing I have yet to get any 50/50 logins or logins where I have 0 soullight, 0 cash, and a buggered faction list. I was even logging in while completely using up my bandwidth while redownloading PlanetSide (because of installing Vista on this machine), and in normal XP circumstances I would get stuck in sync almost constantly, and crash all the time with an FRE, or get pushed back to the login screen when trying to use a CityCom.
As a whole it does actually run a lot better. Only problem is, I can't alt-tab out and back in to Neocron, or any other game. You alt tab out, game is fine, but when you attempt to alt tab back in, it won't go back into full screen and sits there in windowed mode with a black screen, and after a while it'll either crash or stop responding. :(
PS. I remember someone was moaning about the new security service that stops programs making unauthorized changes (and therefore pops up a window all the time, quite annoying) and that they couldn't turn it off. *eyes up all the pages in this thread* Ahhh...
I couldn't find any option in the control panel anywhere to disable that annoying message that pops up and warns me EVERYTIME I start something. They've hidden it very well in it's all easynessIt's not hidden, and it's not hard to find either. :rolleyes: Just turn off UAC (User Account Control) on your User Account Settings window from the Control Panel. You'll be prompted to reboot. :)
One thing I disliked from the start was the address bar. I miss the old style separators damnit. But it's grown on me a bit now, but only because you can save time using the directory lists by clicking on the little arrows. Apart from that, most other things are just annoying. The Windows Sidebar took up 50mb of RAM just to show a clock, and other things, bugger that.
I think nobby said he didn't like the transparency ("glass" effect) around the windows, it takes about two seconds to disable that too.
@Rob444: You think Vista requiring you to have 512mb at the very least is unacceptable? 512mb RAM would be what you need to run it with most things (incuding possibly the Vista Theme) disabled from the way my RAM is being eaten up. I think that's one of the improvements they've made. RAM is being used more than it was before, most likely to stop cluttering up the harddrive with temporary garble and speed things up in general. The recommended RAM is 2gb I think, 1gb of RAM is just enough to run it smoothly. Fast/high performance RAM is cheap these days anyway.
At the moment I have a small handful of programs running.
Mozilla Firefox (30MB RAM)
Winamp (13MB RAM)
MSN Messenger (10MB RAM)
an SSH client (6MB RAM)
Windows Task Manager (8MB RAM)
That's 70MB of memory just from running those few programs. Using the default Vista Theme and disabling various things like UAC, plus killing the Windows Sidebar, and running those few programs that I just listed, 566MB of RAM is in use. At least it doesn't really affect me, I have just about 2.5GB of RAM still free :D, but I know it will affect other people quite a bit. This is going to be at least one upgrade people will be forced to make, unless they want terrible performance.
Maybe one or two people who's running Vista could let us know how much of their RAM is in use at a stand-still while running the day-to-day bunch of programs as well, so we can get an average.
Some points to note:
1) Vista's TCP/IP stack is brand new, whereas the stack on previous versions of Windows (including XP) although updated over the years are still effectively the same stack written in the early 90's for Windows NT. Vista's new stack has all kinds of new stuff to make things faster, more stable and more secure. For example, wireless networking is faster and more reliable.
2) Video drivers on Vista are still pretty immature and that might explain the ALT-TAB issues you experienced.
3) I really wouldn't recommend disabling UAC. It may be annoying but it's the thing that will keep your system safe (well, safer) from all kinds of nasties. For example, many programs just won't run unless you're an administrator so most people always log in with admin rights, but this means that all that nasty invisible malware has free reign on your machine! UAC virtualises many parts of the OS which means that non-admin accounts will be able to run those programs and UAC will only prompt you when something really does need admin rights. This means that you can use non-privileged accounts day to day and be much more secure from malware. In any case, the usability team aren't finished tweaking UAC yet anyway so don't make your mind up until Vista's released.
N
PS. I remember someone was moaning about the new security service that stops programs making unauthorized changes (and therefore pops up a window all the time, quite annoying) and that they couldn't turn it off. *eyes up all the pages in this thread* Ahhh...It's not hidden, and it's not hard to find either. :rolleyes: Just turn off UAC (User Account Control) on your User Account Settings window from the Control Panel. You'll be prompted to reboot. :)
Ahh thanks :).
@Rob444: You think Vista requiring you to have 512mb at the very least is unacceptable?
Never said it was unacceptable, I just dislike it. Never seen such requirement on a OS before, I guess I'm used to the older Windows systems and linux which can run on less than 16mb ram...
That's like harking back to 8" disks. Why have a hangup over RAM when you can pick up 512MB for £23 including VAT. ;)
N
Why hang up on RAM? I'm just curious what they added to Windows Vista that requires this "much" amount of RAM, that's a 8 TIMES gap in ram between Windows XP and Windows Vista.
Dribble Joy
04-08-06, 16:56
Unrael. Try running NC in windowed mode right off the bat?
I've been running it in a window for years, other wise when I alt tab the gamma on the desktop gets shafted.
Why hang up on RAM? I'm just curious what they added to Windows Vista that requires this "much" amount of RAM, that's a 8 TIMES gap in ram between Windows XP and Windows Vista.
There are two main reasons for this:
1) Microsoft under-represented the amount of memory required to get a decent experience out of XP
2) Microsoft are over-representing the amount of memory required to run Vista. The stated minimum is 512MB but it will actually run with less.
Check out this blog (http://thelazyadmin.net/index.php?/archives/396-guid.html#extended) for a good explanation of why Vista isn't the memory hog that some people believe it to be...
N
There are two main reasons for this:
1) Microsoft under-represented the amount of memory required to get a decent experience out of XP
2) Microsoft are over-representing the amount of memory required to run Vista. The stated minimum is 512MB but it will actually run with less.
Check out this blog (http://thelazyadmin.net/index.php?/archives/396-guid.html#extended) for a good explanation of why Vista isn't the memory hog that some people believe it to be...
N
=] u a vista sales rep nid ^_^
The new windows Vista is going to be yet another bright example of forced income for M$ and Co. (aka Gates, Melinda & Buffet foundation). They make an environment rich in 3D and graphics to justify more power to gpus and also more power in general. The whole industry will love them but, what is it that it brings or introduces new, and fresh to the consumers?
More rigourous validation, in better hardware and of course, $$$
Why did we have to wait 15 years for a better tcp ip stack, and why does this had to be in a new OS? A simple patch was all that's needed
Dribble Joy
04-08-06, 22:39
Because like it or not, MS is a business, not a public service. Don't like it go elsewhere. Don't like the competition, make your own.
Because like it or not, MS is a business, not a public service. Don't like it go elsewhere. Don't like the competition, make your own.
Exactly Dribble, fully agree with u on thet one. :)
jini>>
I havent tried out Vista yet and i aint gonna until it goes in final realease, but im sure theres a lot of new things for the consumer in it, and plz keep in mind, that a Vista consumer isnt just the gamers, there are lots of other ppl using PCs too that want and need features that might not seem useable for one self. ;)
Im sure they didnt just fill 15GB of dummy files and call it Windows Vista just so u could ask these questions, im sure they have a lot of new stuff in there that will benefit everyone.
I dunno if u ever tried writing programs or develop systems, but trust me it aint somethin u do over night, all these things they have to consider, like what features are actually most important, as they are a business, they must start out with the "important" features, eg the ones most ppl will pay for. ;)
Why the OS is getting larger and require more ram and harddrive? thats simple, because everyone, every user have their own idea of whats the best and most ideal OS, and as they're gonna sell it to all sorts of different ppl with different minds and wishes, they have to implement it all into one OS.
Fortunately u can as the consumer chose what "dishes" u like on your "buffet", like in windows 98 and xp i didnt like messenger as it was clumsy and pratically unuseable (havent got much better since imo), so i simply uninstalled it.
Thats how they figure itll work the best for everyone, and the calculations may be correct as windows is running on almost every desktop in the world.
Compared to systems like Linux, for some (obviously not too many) ppl its the ultimate OS, MS aimed for the majority and they concluded that in order to do that, u must built a system thats flexible, a system that the user can adjust to be the best choice for him.
Ofcourse Windows isnt all good, but if u want an OS that to one person seem perfect, u will have to have it custom built, cause everyone have their own idea of whats perfect. ;)
Its just like when i was repping cars for a livin at Toyota, when a customer came to the shop to buy a car, he would most likely ask for a car, that went from 0-60 in 3 secs, had a top speed of 200 mph, had the comfort of a limo the agility of a Lotus Esprit, and btw did 50 miles to the gallon.
Pretty much what u experince ppl to ask of their OS... ;)
You mean new features like having options links that point to the same place in 5 different areas... just like in XP, taking up more bytes for nothing.
and you mean great neccessary programs like movie maker? :rolleyes:
I think OS's should be stripped down to bare minimum and if you want extra shit, go buy the extra non M$ products.... or even an M$ one.... but they have been over this whole thing with IE......
Because like it or not, MS is a business, not a public service. Don't like it go elsewhere. Don't like the competition, make your own.
I forgot to mention that I admire Gates's decision to step down btw. And I admire it mostly because now Buffet is backing it up. It's the most promising charitable effort so far.
Now, about your comment, everything in this world is a business more or less and that's not new. I don't like m$'s product. I'm only using it for games. For all the rest business/personal uses, I am using OSX. This message is written in safari as we speak. Now if this is what mr. Gates was visioning for his product then its fine by me...
I think OS's should be stripped down to bare minimum and if you want extra shit, go buy the extra non M$ products.... or even an M$ one.... but they have been over this whole thing with IE......
...and then you have the problem with all those non-superusers who dont know what and/or where to get that 3rd party software.
...and u have the problem with ppl installing all kinda opensource software into one whole mess, where one app is crashing the other etc etc etc...
...and u have the problem where software dvelopers will be aiming for a different OSs and u as the user would have to use more OSs in order to have all the programs u want to use etc.. (i believe thats what u r already doing?)
It seems to be more like a religion to ppl what OS to chose rather than what their actual needs r..?
And for the software included in windows, like mediaplayer, well a lot of ppl are whining about it, i dont see why, i have never come across a DVD, CD or music file it wouldnt play and i dont really care if it eats 50megs of ram, cause it doesnt affect what i see on the screen and to me, the actual output is what counts, not how its created or what kinda ressources it takes from my computer. :lol:
If u want a computer where everything is stripped to a bare minimum, u shd start writing machine code. :D *jokingly*
But i must admit i get a good laugh when reading about ppl who r using all kinds of 3rd party software just for the reason of NOT using MS software, typically it means they r actually making a lot of things harder on themselves than necessary, like having to boot into different OSs based on whether they wanna play a game or run a program. ;)
Because like it or not, MS is a business, not a public service. Don't like it go elsewhere. Don't like the competition, make your own.
DJ, take it from me, don't even start with Jini. After 10+ pages of arguing you'll realize that the language barrier is too great (even though he seems to be pretty fluent in English) and that he won't budge in his love for Steve Jobs and his hate of Bill Gates and what he calls m$.
Because like it or not, MS is a business, not a public service. Don't like it go elsewhere. Don't like the competition, make your own. it's MS's fault that we don't have another decent OS maker.
it's MS's fault that we don't have another decent OS maker.
Obviously there isnt such a great need for it, otherwise there would be other descent OS makers. ;)
Oh btw, dont get me wrong in this thread, i dont like MS all the way either, im pretty unsatisfied with a lot of their stuff, and im not using their products because it says MS on the box, i use whatever cover my needs, windows does that, it does a lot of other things i dont like, but at least i got what i need and thats good enough for me. :D
it's MS's fault that we don't have another decent OS maker.
Although at the same time we can thank them (its their fault) other OSs are much more 'secure' as they arnt as wide a target for viruses etc since they cover a relavitly much smaller user base.
DJ, take it from me, don't even start with Jini. After 10+ pages of arguing you'll realize that the language barrier is too great (even though he seems to be pretty fluent in English) and that he won't budge in his love for Steve Jobs and his hate of Bill Gates and what he calls m$.
You seriously believe, that there are people out there that love M$?? Even then I said I admire Gates for what he did, but point to me someone that has done more than Jobs and ....
Edit: and to make it easier for you ...
What Job's did:
1. made a revolution with personal computers
2. made a revolution with ipod and podcasting and the way we listen to music
3. made another revolution in the film industry using animated computer gfx, changing the industry
...all these in less than 20 years ..oh yes why do I have to admire Jobs I wonder.
You seriously believe, that there are people out there that love M$?? Even then I said I admire Gates for what he did, but point to me someone that has done more than Jobs and ....
Edit: and to make it easier for you ...
What Job's did:
1. made a revolution with personal computers
2. made a revolution with ipod and podcasting and the way we listen to music
3. made another revolution in the film industry using animated computer gfx, changing the industry
...all these in less than 20 years ..oh yes why do I have to admire Jobs I wonder.
See what I mean? Don't get him started!
So has anyone installed Windows Vista Beta? If so, what system are you running it on, and how's the compatability with XP programs?
Although at the same time we can thank them (its their fault) other OSs are much more 'secure' as they arnt as wide a target for viruses etc since they cover a relavitly much smaller user base.
On the contrary, there are many many eager to prove Job's arrogancy is wrong and that OSX is equally vulnerable in virus attacks, if anything they will get such publicity like nothing else. What I don't understand is, with all this infinite supply of cash, how is it possible for a system to be so vulnerable in attacks 140000 times vulnerable?
edit: I haven't installed Windows Vista beta and I won't as much as I can avoid it.
The one with EVERYTHING in it, the Ultimate Version s apparantly what the gamers will want and dosnt for obvious reasons have a corporate version making pirate copies of the ultimate version a little tougher. wait a sec, the gamer one is the one with everything in it? i thought gamers were minimalists who ran as few background processes as possible. or am i missing something?
EDIT: something that jini will enjoy: http://www.bestweekever.tv/2006/07/07/bwe-mac-ads/
Jini seems to believe that Jobs actually came up with the ideas he's made his success and money off, rather than the reality that somebody else came up with the inspiration, then Jobs saw, cloned and markteded far better than the original.
Jini seems to believe that Jobs actually came up with the ideas he's made his success and money off, rather than the reality that somebody else came up with the inspiration, then Jobs saw, cloned and markteded far better than the original.
Like Bill Gates aswell then, lol
I think in some cases, allegeing that gates merely "cloned" rather than flagrantly abused copyright law is being generous. But hey, I could be wrong. The difference is that gates has always had good business sense to accomapny his technical skill. Jobs has a better grasp of flair and marketing.
wait a sec, the gamer one is the one with everything in it? i thought gamers were minimalists who ran as few background processes as possible. or am i missing something?
Only the gamer who is lacking tech knowledge, so he doesnt know that whatever FPS he gets beyond his 75Hz TFT isnt doin him any good and that the human eye on such a "small" screen cant even pickup more than 60fps. ;)
On the contrary, there are many many eager to prove Job's arrogancy is wrong and that OSX is equally vulnerable in virus attacks, if anything they will get such publicity like nothing else. What I don't understand is, with all this infinite supply of cash, how is it possible for a system to be so vulnerable in attacks 140000 times vulnerable?
edit: I haven't installed Windows Vista beta and I won't as much as I can avoid it.
Because no matter how much money u put into anything, its still humans who r to work out the code and secure it, the money aint doin it for you no matter how high u stack it.
Also u can never have a completely secured system, its like building a house, if u wanna be able to live in it, there has to be an entrance, each time u ad an entrance, a burglar can enter thru it as well as u can. :)
If u want a completely secure system, u have to take your computer, remove all entries in it, that would be discdrives, USB, serial, netowork etc etc etc until theres no way in, that means even the keyboard as its a way to add/remove/edit data inside the system, then u have a 100% safe system. :D
So back to the house example, if theres a door, theres an entrance, then theres a chance of having intruders. ;)
main difference is most os lock the door while windows left it open :lol:
it's basically a good idea to build a new os from scratch, rather than 'upgrading' a 15 year old os and keep all the garbage that one had in it :)
oh and btw the main advantage windows has over other os's is the abundancy of games, you'll find just as good progs for all different kinds of applications on the other os's and they have a tendency to run more stable and/or are cheaper. that is the main reason open office is so popular. it's not the i am cool i don't run microsoft progs crap, but the i can have about the same program at no cost thingy that let's ppl choose to use 3rd party software.
/edit btw dx 10 has got nothing to do with the ageia physx chip and will not provide any standards for physics engines at all :p
main difference is most os lock the door while windows left it open :lol:
Good one there. ;)
it's basically a good idea to build a new os from scratch, rather than 'upgrading' a 15 year old os and keep all the garbage that one had in it :)
Just like we all sit down an reinvent the plate before each meal? Hehe *kidding*
Jini seems to believe that Jobs actually came up with the ideas he's made his success and money off, rather than the reality that somebody else came up with the inspiration, then Jobs saw, cloned and markteded far better than the original.
Well, I do find it hard to believe his inventions were all of someone's else, and that he tricked them all and stole their ideas. Besides, it's one thing to generate ideas with brainstorming and quite another to make products for the end user. The guy is a visionary, he is chasing his visions and for that you need enormous amounts of cash, skills and temper or you fail.
From my point of view, Jobs succeeded because he had his visions, enormous luck, talented people to work for him and the cash. tratos, cash can buy you good professionals but not talented professionals.
Obviously, Gates has skills in business, his networth proves this already, but Gates too, had luck on his side. Biggest mistake of Jobs was the fact that he never accompanied his products with software when he was the king of the hill, something he does now...
it's basically a good idea to build a new os from scratch, rather than 'upgrading' a 15 year old os and keep all the garbage that one had in it :)
It is, but you gotta have the "balls" to do such a radical move. Unfortunately this simple decision was the root to all our problems. Over time M$s OSs are becoming more and more stable, for instance XP are very stable, at least I don't see that BSoD any more. I remember what was going on with win98, me, 2000....
Jobs too was faced with an equal dilemma: he had to, either dump Power PC cpus and start from scratch with all the risk this decision involved, or stay as he was, having problems with production, with power hungry cpus. He managed a big leap in only 6 months time, and the stock market clearly credits him for this.
EDIT: something that jini will enjoy: http://www.bestweekever.tv/2006/07/07/bwe-mac-ads/
nice rofl
In contrast, here is how Vista 2.0 will look like:http://static.flickr.com/74/207241438_7c0f89412d_b.jpg :lol:
Well, I do find it hard to believe his inventions were all of someone's else, and that he tricked them all and stole their ideas. Besides, it's one thing to generate ideas with brainstorming and quite another to make products for the end user. The guy is a visionary, he is chasing his visions and for that you need enormous amounts of cash, skills and temper or you fail.
From my point of view, Jobs succeeded because he had his visions, enormous luck, talented people to work for him and the cash. tratos, cash can buy you good professionals but not talented professionals.
Obviously, Gates has skills in business, his networth proves this already, but Gates too, had luck on his side. Biggest mistake of Jobs was the fact that he never accompanied his products with software when he was the king of the hill, something he does now...
I wouldn't say tricked and stole - although how he aquired the concept and technology of the GUI is a touch underhand. More often he just saw what others were already doing - iPod is a good example, Creative had been making hard disk MP3 players for years before the first iPod - and marketed them better, made them cool.
Only the gamer who is lacking tech knowledge, so he doesnt know that whatever FPS he gets beyond his 75Hz TFT isnt doin him any good and that the human eye on such a "small" screen cant even pickup more than 60fps. ;) i look forward to cheap dual 7900GTs and cheap conroe chips that can run bf2 above 60fps (not just average but actually not dipping below 60fps at any point).
well, using other ppls gui is mebbe not the best argument in a MS vs mac dispute. at least if your in favor of ms :p
well, using other ppls gui is mebbe not the best argument in a MS vs mac dispute. at least if your in favor of ms :p
Its not a good argument to make if you are on either "side". Handily, I'm not. I just don't like to see Jobs and Apple made up into something they aren't.
imo jobs is as a nice person as gates is (whatever that means :angel: ) and the main difference between ms and apple is their image.
what really pisses me off is this trusted computing thingy coming with vista whcih trusts about everything but the user in the end, useless features like 3d desktops and the bundle of useless (at least for me) software it will come with that you can't get rid of.
that dx 10 will only be made for vista is sad, tho i can understand that ms wants to make money with it, so it is ok i think :)
Well, I do find it hard to believe his inventions were all of someone's else, and that he tricked them all and stole their ideas.
Here u can see what it was Jobs "stole/borrowed". ;)
http://toastytech.com/guis/alto3.html
While you're there guys, dont forget to chk out than screen from MazeWar, the very first Doom game! :D
Despite the guy who wrote the reviews of the OSs is a full grown Gates-hater, its actually a good set of reviews i think. :)
The attached file shows the Alto debugger after a crash, so it looks like we had program crashes before Windows came about and that crashable system is then also the foundation of the Mac OS. :lol:
So Jobs shd've taken Yuuki's advice, make the whole thing from scratch instead of upgrading someone elses unstable system. :lol:
Nice. History. Very cool links indeed.
I also enjoy that all this came to life from a comment of Koshinn :lol:
Everyone knows that Jobs saw what he saw on this Xerox Parc lab. He was there and I also remember Gates in one of his speeches addressing to Jobs claiming that he (Gates) too, was there as well as Jobs. The thing is not just to see a vague idea of things, you also have to believe in this, have faith in this or have your vision in other words. Im telling you that, since I first answer to this post. The real trick is how you persuade the world, how to turn heads and use your product.
Jobs used as a foundation of ideas what he saw in Xerox, but then focused on making "macintosh" the computer everyone would use. That's like a giant step. Jobs was holding the world in his hands at the time, everyone was using his computer, Apple was a giant and all that at I dunno his 25 (he was a millionaire). 5 years later he lost everything from very poor decisions, bad temper and bad management. So, on second thought, Jobs let Gates do what he did and we all suffer consequences up-till now.
ipods are not just some nice pieces of hardware. not anymore. ipods are fused with very good software(itunes) and this is the most important. Steve is closing deals with the media world, deals that are difficult to break from something else (aka "Zune"). ipod's software is so revolutionary now, that it permits anyone with only basic knowledge to start his very own either sound or video productions, and say what he wants to the rest of the world. Who else before him did this?
As for Pixar, well I bet you have seen his works of art, Nemo Toy story and the rest of its art, which of course made him to the king of the hill studio
Jini i agree with u in full that success isnt dependent on the product alone, a good product doesnt mean safe way to success and neither does success mean that u have the best product to offer. :)
Theres a lot of marketing strategy to it also, for instance here in Denmark, no one cared if u could talk around the world using the internet instead of the phone, then Skype comes around and is advertised as a TelePhone, then ppl woke up and everyone was using Skype.
At that time we had had internet "telephones" for years, i remember talking to a girl in australia back in '97 over my 33.6 modem using a stage mike and a set of headphones. :lol:
Skype had lousy audio, bad lag/latency and u couldnt adjust anything yourself except for the volume, u simply had to put up with it. (actually the first version of skype had so bad audio and lag as that app i used on my 33.6 in '97)
There were other, way better internet "telephones" at that time, but it wasnt advertised as telephones and that was the mistake.
Also take the old BETAMAX' compared too VHS they were superior in sound a video quality, not that odd though as it was SONY inside which r known for their good quality in that productline. ;)
But yet VHS overcame, even though the casettes was bigger and more clumsy, the VHS had nothing that the BETAMAX didnt have, not as far as i remember anyways.
VHS was more widely advertised and therefore ppl got to "know" that product better and they started bying them instead.
"The rational man adapts himself to the world, the irrational man tries to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress is dependant of the irrational man".
Gates simply adapted a little to the world and then he adapted the world to his product, then his product and business gained progress. ;)
Yes, but mac OSX is certainly a superior OS, with a whole lot of benefits. What's missing are games and momentum for companies to write software. Nokia for instance refuses to make s/w under mac god knows why, but on the other hand they asked Apple to write a safari clone for their browser that is used on their new screens (4x the resolution) and as expected that little browser is now a feat in the cellphones industry.
On the other hand Gates is a more important personality, because he chosen to march the philanthropist path. And this is actually more important for our world than making consumer products. Of course, Gates is able to do such a thing, with his heavy weight fortune, along with Buffet, but in the OS world windows have lost the game.
In the mean time you can all watch the keynote of a Genius tomorrow presenting new stuff and opening new roads in technology
...but in the OS world windows have lost the game.90% market share isn't a loss last time I looked. ;)
Other than that, near monopolies are almost certain to produce less than optimal products, there simply isn't the need. On the other hand, M$ (as you put it...) has the backing and duty to large corporations using the M$ OS, so their monoploy isn't so bad as it might be.
Yes, but mac OSX is certainly a superior OS, with a whole lot of benefits. What's missing are games and momentum for companies to write software.
Mac OS is superior to Windows, but Mac OS lacks game support? the only thing that seem to be superior to me is the lack of a VERY important feature, the games as theres a huge market there. ;)
So Mac OS isnt superior after all i guess, it might have its advantages and so does windows the other way around.
However back in the good old early nineties where PCs was monsters when they hit 100MHz 486s, Mac sure had one advantage i know of, the 1MB basemem, i remember how i had trouble in freeing up enought base mem for running games etc., even though i sent driver possible to highmem, there were always games that wouldnt run because they needed huge chunks of basemen. ;)
Then u can discuss whther it was due to bad programming of the game or the DOS, its like who shd adapt to who? shd the game be made for the DOS or the DOS be made for the game? :lol:
Then Mac was also more powerful for multimedia production, no doubt about that, i remember when i was using Cubase 1.0 where the mac reqs were lower than for pc.
Then again, compare the actual speed of the Amiga to a pc or even a mac, you shd find that Commodore really knew how to get the performance up with "low" freq CPU, like when i bought my first 386 DX40, it was approx 2-3 times as fast for gaming (in 320x240 res) than my Amiga 500 which had that 8Mz cpu, even though i had a 1MB 24Bit graphics card installed in my 386.
So again we could walk down that road and ask ourselves if we'd be better of with the concept of them Amigas rather than the pc and/or mac?
If u take Amiga Workbench and compare it with other OSs it had very little crashes, it could multitask, it had windows environment and it even had drag and drop support, it was actually a nice step ahead of its time and the Amiga wasnt even THAT expensive after all. ;)
So far i think its better to focus on what we have rather than what we couldve had if things had turned out different, cause things didnt turn out different and therefore i think theres more of a future in making things we have better, rather than fighting them or waste time thinking about how it couldve been. :)
but in the OS world windows have lost the game.
That's the funniest quote I've seen on these boards in ages. I suspect you might be a little mistaken with that one. ;)
My rule of thumb for Operating Systems is that they need to support the software I want to use and they need to be user friendly. If I have difficulty installing the software I want to use then the OS fails at the first hurdle.
Acid test - Firefox.
This is the installation instructions for Windows:
Double click the Firefox Setup 1.5.0.6.exe installer to start the install.
OSX is not quite so user friendly but still not bad:
Once you have downloaded the Firefox 1.5.0.6.dmg file, double click the Firefox Disk Image to open it in Finder, and then drag the Firefox application onto your hard disk. Drag the icon to your Dock if you want it to appear there.
Linux just takes the piss:
Extract the tarball in the directory where you want to install Firefox:
tar -xzvf firefox-1.5.0.6.tar.gz
This will create a firefox subdirectory of that directory.
Seriously, that tar command is just bullshit. I wouldn't mind but under the covers OSX is much more like Linux than it is like Windows so it can be made easier.
Vista will be much more like the Windows install except you might need elevated permissions to perform the install. So it's just as easy but more secure. ;)
N
I also enjoy that all this came to life from a comment of Koshinn :lol:
I don't understand your entertainment over that... :confused:
So basically, OSX = Betamax and Windows = VHS. VHS wins because of better marketing and industry support. Windows wins for the same reasons. OSX may be better, but if you can't get anything you really want to run under OSX then what's the point?
Case in point... Neocron. Do you see Necron for OSX? No. Therefore, Windows > OSX. Game over. There is no better argument. Sorry.
Apple > PC? Maybe, but now they use basically the exact same hardware, minus a different bios. Both Apples and PCs can run both windows and OSX. But the argument is about OSs, not computers.
God damn Nid, i didnt know that about them OSx' prolly because i never used neither of them as it would mean that i shd sit and learn a whole new system with (almost) the same features as in windows, except they got weird names. :lol:
Its just like i remember using Norton Commander, great app btw....when u got to know your way around it that is, cause i recall the menus and shit all being like a messed up windows, basically the same features in a lot of regards, but accessing the features was hell as they were placed oddly and they were named differently.
Like when u OSx for that "Dock" place i can only be guessing that what they refer to is the desktop? or to use un-copyrighted terms, the place in the OS that loads onto the screen before anything else and where u would normally put your icons to access your programs. :D
I also noticed that Linux used "Launch" i believe instead of "Start"? :lol: its like they just sat down lookin at windows and said, "someone get a synonym dictionary so we can personalize this thing here". ROFL
Actually, VHS won in the face of superior competition because of one thing. Porn.
N
RogerRamjet
07-08-06, 21:07
Actually, VHS won in the face of superior competition because of one thing. Porn.
N
I think you'll find it was actually pr0nz0r.
That's the funniest quote I've seen on these boards in ages. I suspect you might be a little mistaken with that one. ;)
My rule of thumb for Operating Systems is that they need to support the software I want to use and they need to be user friendly. If I have difficulty installing the software I want to use then the OS fails at the first hurdle.
Acid test - Firefox.
This is the installation instructions for Windows:
OSX is not quite so user friendly but still not bad:
Linux just takes the piss:
Seriously, that tar command is just bullshit. I wouldn't mind but under the covers OSX is much more like Linux than it is like Windows so it can be made easier.
Vista will be much more like the Windows install except you might need elevated permissions to perform the install. So it's just as easy but more secure. ;)
N
Yes Nick, I was. In fact I wanted to say what Sizzler said about superiority but I was too bored to answer back, and besides, Steve's keynote was just begining;).
So, you admit you use windows only from necessity reasons and as Konshinn says (colourfully) because of industry support.
Another example: You are using firefox, simply because it's better than IE. And as we all know IE is a wonderful example of m$'s wars against another bright example of browser: Netscape.
Apple > PC? Maybe, but now they use basically the exact same hardware, minus a different bios. Both Apples and PCs can run both windows and OSX. But the argument is about OSs, not computers.
You are making the same mistake over and over. You are comparing the products of a single brandname (apple) against who? PCs. Apples carry an integration tradition and quality control that's unmatched in the industry, and I don't believe you can even suggest that your average Joe can built something which can be like this: http://www.apple.com/macpro/ or something like this: http://www.apple.com/macpro/expansion.html (hey!! where are the cables? strange, macs now use pc h/w so where are the cables?)
For me, there is no question about which OS is better. I have said it a million times, I have them both standing on my desk and compare them all the time. Results are overwhelming: OSX wins in EVERY SINGLE comparison test I can think of. Practicality, ease of use, NO CRASHES (after 1,5-2 years it never crashed!!) Aesthetically pleasing environment which helps.
Now if Apple OSX is that superior why do I have a PC??
Well, I'm only having this pc just to play games guys. But you can't just force people your will indefinitely, you really need to show some good stuff like the firefox/IE example shows us.
From what I can tell so far, we are in the beginning of PC wars redefined, Jobs is focusing his attack in Dell at first and hp will surely follow. It seems that he has chosen an aggressive policy in prices but I need time to check this out and apples sites don't help as the whole world seems to hit them as we speak(they are slow). And it's not gonna be an easy war either, because apple is now stronger than ever, so stay tuned.
In the mean time you can enjoy this guy's presentation watching it, as you know every single IT and technology decision maker has already done, from here: http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.net/aug_2006/event/index.html and get a glimpse of vista2 ;)
Atm, there is only one that shows us how to make PCs and that's Steve Jobs.
What I have seen and heard of Vista so far is so-so. Fact is, they remade the GUI stuff (and hopefully got rid of this horrible MFC), which follows in the footsteps of MacOS X. Nothing new, neither are the concepts behind MacOS X (including the GUI system). Mr. Jobs was part of a company called NeXT, where all these foundations were laid out already. Many concepts can be found in todays MacOS X again, and this NeXT stuff is 15 to 20 years old. M$' early Wintendo versions couldn't even handle overlapping windows and NeXT was a couple years into business by then already. That about technical superiority ... Business success is another story.
Sizzler: The GUI desktops you get with Linux are copying the Wintendo one on purpose, to give people who change over a feeling of "ok, I know how to handle this". Thing is, in some areas they surpassed Wintendo already.
For todays office work Linux is as good as Wintendo, if not even better, because normal users have a hard time tampering with the system.
Nidhogg: Close to noone uses the tar command to install software in Linux anymore. First off, most distributions have one or another way of installing packages on their system, even with a graphical frontend. Secondly, you get Firefox usually installed by default, which means you don't need to bother about downloading and installing Firefox at all.
About this "security" and multi user environments: It will be hard for M$ to turn around the stick, not to talk about the fact they ignored their own guidelines (which exist a good while already) in that matter. I wonder when you can finally say that the main chunk of software finally accepts the fact you have admin users and normal users and the software should run in both cases without requiring admin rights at some point (unless explicitely required).
To the DRM issue: M$ is heading into this way to support an industry which cries "murderer" at 12 year olds because they "stole" their data (Media Players of newer versions are probably filled to the rim with DRM stuff already). Fact is, the hardware for this "Trusted Computing Platform" has it's uses aside of DRM to make computers more secure and harder to tamper with. Consoles have similar systems installed since many years already. The support of DRM mechanisms is unfortunately one of the possible misuses, like you can misuse basic physical principles to incinerate whole cities in one blast.
Anyway, in the end it comes down to what you need, are required to use or just like out of whatever personal reasons. I use Wintendo, well, the name says it already, and Linux for all other things.
One last thing: In terms of userfriendliness and overall streamlined GUI usage RiscOS beats every other GUI system hands down. Drag'n'Drop is not only a concept but a basic principle used everywhere.
There is one more thing I want to add:
If you monitor Jobs's products you will notice a clear heading towards art and creativity. He wanted to make these two important factor part of everyone's lives and this is the reason why he personally takes part to the outer design of all his stuff. This is also mentioned in his last keynote from his PC buddy from those successful ads. His orientation is such, that he also includes s/w to backup this that from now on it accompanies OSX and cannot be found anywhere else.
In short people that use his products are the people who care about the looks and creative people in general. Steve who is a middle aged billionaire doesn't care about gamers.
Darkana's expression(wintendo) is very successful, I wouldn't have thought of a better one for m$(:p), but at least cash you spend for windowz now goes to charity and this is a relief :p
@Darky: and a suggestion to you Darky: use linux for your programming stuff, but dump it for a creative mac mini(which doesnt need monitors) or an imac. I bet you will love it in the end (all girls do). It's amazing for personal stuff and Leopard(vista2) will be a lot better
You are making the same mistake over and over. You are comparing the products of a single brandname (apple) against who? PCs.
Why can't I compare all PCs to Macs? Jobs does it all the time. Don't hold me to a double standard.
Apples carry an integration tradition and quality control that's unmatched in the industry,
Yep, but you definately pay the price for that tradition and quality. Prices that are leaps and bounds higher than comparible PCs. Well, except those ipods that died after a couple months.
I don't believe you can even suggest that your average Joe can built something which can be like this: http://www.apple.com/macpro/ or something like this: http://www.apple.com/macpro/expansion.html (hey!! where are the cables? strange, macs now use pc h/w so where are the cables?)
They use trays to load standard pc hardware, the wires are built into the walls of the case. It's innovative, but it would be difficult to upgrade many of the more expensive components without getting proprietary stuff from Apple. Having an average joe not be able to build a pc is a double-edged sword for an argument on pcs against macs. Sure, a normal person can't usually build something the quality of a multi-billion dollar organization like Apple can... but neither can an average joe wanting to build their own Mac. Actually, they can't really build ANY Mac, they're forced to buy the computer from Apple directly. I wish Macs had something as simple and effective as 2 mouse buttons. :(
For me, there is no question about which OS is better. I have said it a million times, I have them both standing on my desk and compare them all the time. Results are overwhelming: OSX wins in EVERY SINGLE comparison test I can think of.
Except for the "Supported by more companies and software applications" comparison test.
Practicality, ease of use, NO CRASHES (after 1,5-2 years it never crashed!!) Aesthetically pleasing environment which helps.
For me, OSX is hard to use while XP is easy to use. That's probably more of an opinion thing. Practicality... I'd rather go without all the flashy stuff that OSX and Vista has. Give me a Windows98 GUI and I'll be happy (note I said GUI, not OS). And I've never crashed in 3 years with WinXP except when my computer overheats from the 90+degree (fahrenheit) weather combined with very dusty internals, fans and vents. But that's a cooling problem, not an OS problem.
Actually, VHS won in the face of superior competition because of one thing. Porn.
N you single handedly made the vhs win by only releasing your movies on vhs? :eek:
and apple lose for the simple reason that they are shit for gaming. the whole IGay brand is for computer illeterate people :lol:
and i dislike firefox too
>.>
Another example: You are using firefox, simply because it's better than IE.
Actually, I did use Firefox because of its superior usability but I've now switched to IE7. Do I care that the current IE7 beta isn't as "standards compliant" as Firefox or Opera? Absolutely not. Standards mean diddly squat to me - I care more about what's out there in the real world.
N
Why can't I compare all PCs to Macs? Jobs does it all the time. Don't hold me to a double standard.
You are not Jobs I don't know or heard him ever comparing them, but if you insist what you actually say is something like a Ferrari > Cars which is obviously very simplistic and clearly a mistake.
Yep, but you definately pay the price for that tradition and quality. Prices that are leaps and bounds higher than comparible PCs. Well, except those ipods that died after a couple months.
I never said anything about cash, there is a general saying "you get what you pay for" and so far I have hardly found a product that breaks this rule. I don't know to which ipods you are referring, be more specific please.
They use trays to load standard pc hardware, the wires are built into the walls of the case. It's innovative, but it would be difficult to upgrade many of the more expensive components without getting proprietary stuff from Apple. Having an average joe not be able to build a pc is a double-edged sword for an argument on pcs against macs. Sure, a normal person can't usually build something the quality of a multi-billion dollar organization like Apple can... but neither can an average joe wanting to build their own Mac. Actually, they can't really build ANY Mac, they're forced to buy the computer from Apple directly. I wish Macs had something as simple and effective as 2 mouse buttons. :(
I guess you already own a preproduction Mac pro to say this about wires, so please show us some photos of the back. I want to see them as well as the average Joe ;) and I dont understand why is it difficult to upgrade, if you care to explain?
Claiming that the average Joe doesn't want to built quality stuff is yet another mistake, because 1)you don't know how average joe thinks and 2)if this was true then, very expensive high end items like silent fans from Zalman or 7800TG gpu cards would have never existed
Edit:before I forget: the new mac pro pcs are BTO only products, also Apple does have a radical 2 buttons mouse that is easy to use and also very elegant. But since mice are indeed personal preference nobody restricts you from using ANY mouse available from any manufacturer. In fact you will be surprised how come they don't need ANY kind of drivers to function, they are truly "plug and play". Same goes for keyboards
Except for the "Supported by more companies and software applications" comparison test.
this is a monopoly test which I'm not intend to play, besides products fanctionality does not depend depend on business deals
For me, OSX is hard to use while XP is easy to use. That's probably more of an opinion thing. Practicality... I'd rather go without all the flashy stuff that OSX and Vista has. Give me a Windows98 GUI and I'll be happy (note I said GUI, not OS). And I've never crashed in 3 years with WinXP except when my computer overheats from the 90+degree (fahrenheit) weather combined with very dusty internals, fans and vents. But that's a cooling problem, not an OS problem.
Again I assume that claiming "OSX is hard to use", means that you own a mac already. Anyway this is not an opinion based assumption, and claiming this makes me ask you a simple why? and what is it that you find more difficult to use than XP. Please explain. Actually have you ever seen the options given to you when you print something? What do you have to say about macs controlling and adjusting everything from a single accessory? What do you say about this stupidity on XP with this uberconsolidated menu item "start" that fills easily a 30" screen with icons and then you need more screen? is this practical? Can you imagine having to work Photoshop with only one menu item called "finish"? Does it really need a genius to understand this is not practical? Or is it something that is there just to say "I innovate I don't copy"? How about having to pay for antivirus/antispyware/firewall external applications, why do you think Norton/Symantec is so rich?
didn't someone crack OSX before it got released and found out that it runs better on normal PCs than on Macs? :lol:
et tu brute? :lol: nej, er du?
Hva faen Giga er du ogsåp fra Danmark?!? :D
The more i get to know about OSx here more clear the picture becomes, that OSx is better all the way, except that it doesnt support a lot of apps and games.
Hmmm so it basically means that OSx is a Ferrari placed in a world where the gasoline ressources are as low as can be.
I think ill stick with the electric powered car (Widows) until we get more gas into this world. ;)
Hva faen Giga er du ogsåp fra Danmark?!? :D
i'm a half dane who lived there for a while ;)
viking powa?
I think ill stick with the electric powered car (Widows) until we get more gas into this world. ;)
And miss all the fun of speed and acceleration? All the fun of spotlight anf time machine??? Tell this to Koshinn who races and lets hear how he replies
??? ??? ?? ????????, ???????? ?? ??? ????? ?? ????????? (<- change to Greek char set for these to show up :p)
Hey, can someone tell me what are the real benefits of using a real 64b OS? and maybe 64b apps? Is there ay advantage or is it just marketing stuff?
3000th post...better say something random.....
pirate-ninja spork
and there isn't much point to 64bit OSs atm
EDIT: i'm gonna have to change my avatar when i get home as a celebration :p :rolleyes:
atm the only advantage is that you can allocate more than 3.2 GB (or something like that) of ram. :p
And miss all the fun of speed and acceleration?
Oh yes ideed, i hate to limit my possibilities and thats just what OSx does compared to windows, it limits my possibilities to play games and run different programs, basically thats what i use my computer for, so those two things are essential to me.
If windows chews up 300 megs of ram when idle, well ill just put more ram into my computer, todays games requires at least 512MB ram to run well and ill recomend 1GB if u intend to run larger games and or programs for AV editing, music production, picture manipulation etc. and then the ram comes real cheap, so it doesnt matter to me.
It could be fun however to do a chkup on which of the current apps im using that can actually run under Linux and/or Mac OS, Mac OS i guess is the most compatible OSx of the two?
Regarding the 64Bit cpu, it simply means it has twice the registers than a 32Bit, so in other words, it can hold twice the information at a time and process it, so it simply makes it faster IF the app and OS support it that is. ;)
Norweigan and Danish, sometimes I can't even tell the difference ;P
It could be fun however to do a chkup on which of the current apps im using that can actually run under Linux and/or Mac OS, Mac OS i guess is the most compatible OSx of the two?
If you tell me the apps you are using I can help. Linux must be used for programming for all those free compilers it provides. OSX for serious personal/business work (it is very integrated and has a very powerful tool that helps retrieving info: spotlight) and of course for creativity (ilife helps for this). No games however. Also if you try it, don't do it the M$'s way, that is go in the internet and start downloading myriads of utilities. Just use what is included. Also don't try firefox. Use Safari instead it's a better browser.
And as I refer to browsers I wanted to test ie7 but Im afraid that it's in beta and knowning the previous sins of ie regarding spyware and the like... im reluctant.
While Microsoft struggles to produce an OS that will finally delivers its promises, OSX is innovating. Leaving aside aesthetic, simplicity and integration, OSX has made an enormous innovation to help people to their usual tasks: this is the spotlight. Spotlight's speed in searching everything is unsurpassed and is now moving to searches nearby pcs in the network. With leopard, OSX gives us another powerful tool: the time machine. The ability to retrieve files that have long gone. Look how it works http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/timemachine.html like a charm, integration charm
Jini the TimeMachine isnt that special, it came with win xp too just called "system restore" instead, it runs per default and monitors every drive seperately, u can adjust how much diskspace u want to allocate for it and u can enable disable it on one or more drives.
Then if u like get a virus or somethin, u can use system restore to reset the system as it was at an earlier date, u get multiple choices between dates ud like to reset your system to and it actually works pretty good.
However i dont use it myself, well i havent had the needs to use it, so its running on my computer 'just in case' but since SP1 for win xp i never experinece crashes or things that makes my windows unbootable. ;)
Crashes ive experinced in win xp since sp1 have always been related to hardware malfunctioning, like a bad ram module, a overheated cpu or sometimes driver problems too.
For example, i used to experince NC fatals, closing to desktop etc., well then i added xtra cooling for the well oc'ed Barton cpu and then the fatals became more rare.
Now since i upgraded my mainboard and cpu to a sempron 64 3000+ i dont exeprince them crashes no more, ofcourse it happens from time to time after the system have been running for 4 days straight and been in NC for the last 36 hrs, then i might have a fatal on the first attempt to zone. :)
Ill try and write a list of programs i use and see which are supported by Linux, could be fun i think. :)
i've never gotten a virus on my windows PC, and that's just running sp2 firewall and hitman pro (freeware). maybe my router helps a bit...
i think i've even got system restore turned off
Well ive never had virus ive always been using Norton AV.
But u say u have never had a virus, but how can u be sure if u dont have AV program installed?
Btw firewall doesnt prevent a virus from entering your computer, everytime u install something or download a program/file, it can be containing a virus and the firewall doesnt scan the contents of a file like AV software does. ;)
If I were u id get an AV program and do a scan right away, thjose programs comes really cheap these days and its always good to be prepared, rather than have to do a virus cleanup after being attacked. :)
i can tell because my FPS and ping have been fine, there's no odd processes running and there's nothing wrong with the way my PC runs. tbh i wouldn't care if i did have a virus right now because it's not doing anything to annoy me.
Why to upgrade to vista? Because of directx 10? My graphikkart doesn't support dx10 ... what the hell should I do with the "dx10 graphiks features"?
And Crysis... game sucks. I hate such games. Probably they use the new "cool" dx10 feature and bomb you with new graphik effects but forget about the gameplay. Same with FarCry. Graphik looks very good but the gameplay sucks entirely. (my personal opinion) And I think it'll be the same with Crysis. "Jesus, light-effects through scrub and leafs" wuuhuu..that's gonna rock :rolleyes: ... Splinter Cell 3 got the best graphik I've ever seen, and yes I played Oblivion. But no, I think the graphik ain't the best on pc. Splinter Cell 3 got cool shadow and light effects and awesome textures (1280x1024, all details maximum, shader 3 and HDR). And it's from 2005. And Double Agent looks also awesome. And I don't need dx10 or an dx10 card for this effects o.O
I hate that way games goes.
And except for the gaming sector ... why should I upgrade to vista? My XP looks realy fine with that custom skin and I'm, yes I realy, contented with that. I've read the website for vista and all the features doesn't hit any reason to change to vista. And more security? It's from microsoft, stop dreaming :rolleyes:
Okay, if someone donates me vista I wouldn't throw it outta the window. But spend my own money for vista? Nah, better not.
i can tell because my FPS and ping have been fine, there's no odd processes running and there's nothing wrong with the way my PC runs. tbh i wouldn't care if i did have a virus right now because it's not doing anything to annoy me.
So fact is u dont have realistic clue whether ur system is infected or not. ;)
Not all viruses affect ur system in a way ud experince directly, and then i agree with u that if u r not directly affected of it, why bother if its there?
Its like if u r ill, like ppl that have one of them birthmarks on their back which starts to grow, maybe it doesnt bother them cause they dont notice in a normal day, but then suddenly it volves and starts to annoy them, they see the doctor and theyre dignosed with cancer, which couldve been treated so they would possibly not get sick and die from it, but now its too late. :(
It aint my call in any way to tell u what to do, im just saying that you shd be cautious and even freeware AV programs is better than no AV at all, so it aint even somethin u have to pay for, just like seeing the doctor (at least in denmark that is free too).
Ive been doing support jobs for ppl who didnt have AV protection and their system seemed fine, until i ran a scan on it and shitloads of weird things came up, even though the mess of junk doesnt directly bother the user, i dont see the point in havin it there rather than get it cleaned out. ;)
The process window doesnt show all runing processes, actually far from all, try and install one of them 3rd party apps that shows u whats really running in the background, in most cases ppl gets surprised when they see that.
Also a good (as in good for being bad) virus wont show up in the process window either, so the process window isnt at all a fulfilling way of chking for viruses. ;)
Dont get me wrong, i aint lifting my finger on u here however it might seem so, its not my intention at all. :)
yes I played Oblivion. But no, I think the graphik ain't the best on pc. Splinter Cell 3 got cool shadow and light effects and awesome textures (1280x1024, all details maximum, shader 3 and HDR
If the textures r 10x7 or 12x10 makes no difference, they still dont look that good imo, i got a bunch of mods for oblivion, one of them replaces most of the textures with 20x15 ones, see thats improvement. :D
There're always ppl who gets scared when they're about to leave their daily rutines for something new and i dont blame'em, i remember when i had my 386 with win 3.11, few yrs later my dad bought a new Fujitsu pc with a Cyrix 133+ cpu (one of the heavy boys back then), it came with Win95, at first i was totally pissed with it, nothing was as it "used to be" but after spending a little time with it, getting the hang of it i started to see the point with everything in it and how it was far better than win 3.11.
I ofcourse do follow u here all the way, i too r happy with what is already here, but it doesnt mean i dont wanna see things evolve into something even better.
Even though everything about vista may not seem to have improved from win xp, it still has advantages and for it to become even better yet, it requires users who can use the software and report back to MS what their experince is, what new stuff they wanna see next time.
What u r doing is like saying: "MS, use your psychic powers to read my mind and make the new OS that way for me while i continue using the old system as i dont even wanna bother to tell you what i want" :lol:
Thats imo a try to put a stick in the spinning wheel of development. ;)
What im basically saying is, that if u r unsatisfied with the new windows, let MS know it, as far as i can see, ever since win98 theyve been running polls to find out what the user want, and imo the difference shows greatly from win98 to win xp, so many things i was always complaining about in win98 was reworked in win xp exactly the way i was thinking. :D
i'm not 100% sure but i think hitman pro has some av software. anyway, i reformat ever few months so your still not gonna sell me your av software! :D
norton av is one of the worst av progs that exist and you even have to pay for that crap.
just use antivir, it's free and updates the virus definitions daily :p
oh and while upgrading to dx 10 might not be usefull at the moment i guess it will come in handy in a year or so and be a necessity after some more time. especially concerning graphics one gets accustomed to higher standards fast and if you remember what the amiga games looked like, where everyone said wow what great graphics and stuff you will know what i mean. tbh the basic graphics requirement a shooter needs was met by the atari vcs 2600 (or however it was called) with a red cowboy (consisting of 18 rectangles) having to shoot a blue one ;)
Uh Oh Giga's got a virus....
I remember me, playing the hero for 6 months like you, but one day I caught it lol, and I was running to the s/w market for tools :p
http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/getamac_ads1/viruses_480x376.mov :lol:
Edit: Yuuki, show us a link for antivir
Edit2:
Jini the TimeMachine isnt that special, it came with win xp too just called "system restore" instead, it runs per default and monitors every drive seperately, u can adjust how much diskspace u want to allocate for it and u can enable disable it on one or more drives.
you mean it works like this???!!!: http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/timemachine.html not once in a million years. The difference is huge, it's not just another backup software. Apple would have never get into the trouble of making yet another backup program. This is embedded
norton av is one of the worst av progs that exist and you even have to pay for that crap.
just use antivir, it's free and updates the virus definitions daily :p
Hmm well saying that something is the worst of all is easy, how about an actual reason for that statement, and not just one of those "because i had it installed once and yet i got a virus" cause that doesnt prove the app to be not good, most cases its because the user didnt update the definitions or already had the virus before installing the AV app. ;)
Ive been running with it always and never had a virus, so thats a proof that it can be more than adequate to a users needs. :)
Im sure ull find users that have encountered problems with antivir as well, just search the net for forums, actually u will find that for every app ever published i believe. ;)
I never tried antivir and therefore i nver suggest it to anyone as i dont know the program, it might be alright, but i just cant suggest something to someone when i dont have a clue of what its worth in the real world.
But whatever works for u, i mean the point is to stay clean from viruses etc., whatever app one use for it or not is basically rather irrelevant as long as it does the job it was hired for.
However im not so into so-called freeware, cause nothing comes for free in this world, there're always strings attached, ive never come across a program that was totally free of cost in any way u may think of, they always had like some locked features, adware bulit-in to it or ads flashing all over them when running.
Not that odd really as i sure as hell wouldnt spend my life programming software for free, i need a meal each day to survirve too, and so does the programmers around the world i gues.. :D
you mean it works like this???!!!: http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/timemachine.html not once in a million years. The difference is huge, it's not just another backup software. Apple would have never get into the trouble of making yet another backup program. This is embedded
I cant see that movie, it says "Quicktime is missing software to perform this action - Unfortunately, it is not available on the QuickTime server"
Hmmm sounds like QT server doesnt hold the required software to render their own streams? :lol:
Thats just like when netscape.com couldnt be seen with the netscape browser as the website held too many tables for NN to compile. :lol:
Besides i dont use QT as i dont like it, it bothers me as it tends to steal my file ascociations so whenever i want to download a video or soundfile, QT starts playing it in my browser, god i hate that.
Then it places its nasty little icon in my systray, i dont want it there and then i remove it, next time i restart the computer, the little damn thing is back, so i dont use it no more, too bad as the player and the format seems ok though. :confused:
But can u describe to me what the major difference is between "ordinary" backup software and that "timemachine"? :D
I mean what difference can there be that is actually worth taking notice of, as far as i understand it can make multiple backups for u to restore when needed, so does any other backup program? :)
Go get QT software sizzler rofl. I can't describe it in words Jesus! :lol: It's free, and while you are at it take a look on the whole OS preview. Don't think as an IT guy, just place yourself as the average Joe in computers, or the average user and forget all about how things work on XP. Here you get integration, it's a totally different experience. If you try to simulate it with XP you will lose.
Edit: if it messes with associations, then untick them
Go get QT software sizzler rofl. I can't describe it in words Jesus! :lol: It's free, and while you are at it take a look on the whole OS preview
Nah i better not install that QT again, it really annoys me and the last time i could hardly get rid of it again. :lol:
They can just publish a standard format file, like an avi or mpeg that everyone can use. :)
But i was gonna watch the whole thing though, i did also listen to the audio part of that timemachine, the guys discription to me sounds like (again) a backup program that can restore whatever u have backed up earlier, it might be easier to use or something, i wouldnt know, but still ive never been neddin anything beyond "normal" backup.
Also i have the windows rec bin, it stores every file i delete, so if i by mistake erased that precious document or something like that, i go to the rec bin and restore exactly what files i want to, actually a neat feature ive noticed in win xp is, that if u delete something u can call it back directly with the "undo" function (CTRL+Z). :)
well, QuickTime is what started the movies revolution on personal computers for over a decade why change it?
Anyway, I suggest that you install the thing and then use that system restoration (or Time MAchine on XP) to move back ;)
well last time i used norton it only updated virus definitions weekly and there was no way to update them earlier by yourself, while antivir does a daily update automatically and the download site is updated when there is a new virus found.
it really is freeware for private persons and the only ads you get is a window that pops up during update to upgrade to the pro version. i never experienced any problems with antivir, but norton made my system crash quite often and was using a lot more ressources than antivir does.
oh and on all av tests i read antivir gets a much higher score than norton, and always wins the first place for freeware :p
talking about locked features: yes it got locked feature, but i don't NEED them, so i'm well off without paying for the pro version. same thing why i don't use ms office at home, but open office and LyX. i'm not willing to pay for features i don't need and programs that are inferior to(or at least not better than) others that are free.
oh and about freeware in general, there are certain people (normally refered to as nerds :p ) that like doing such sort of thing and do it in their leisure or nonprofit organizations like universities that get their funding and don't need to earn their money with them.
freeware doesn't mean that these programs are inferior to software programed for the profane goal of earning money with em, but many of these programs brought new and handy features into existence that would have taken a way longer to be implemented into professional programs if the freeware comunity didn't exist.
Grrr throw me a link for antivir. And do you now some better (if there is) antispyware than webroot's one?
I tried to solve my virus with freeware in the past, but after installing (I forget which one was) it supposedly found viruses but needed to pay for remove, which it was a deceit
edit: i found it
Grrr throw me a link for antivir. And do you now some better (if there is) antispyware than webroot's one?
I tried to solve my virus with freeware in the past, but after installing (I forget which one was) it supposedly found viruses but needed to pay for remove, which it was a deceit
edit: i found it gunnar reccomends hitman pro :p
it's basically an automated process the consists of several freeware antispyware/av software. When you run it, it will change some of your PC's setting to close off some backdoors to your PC, and then it updates the spyware programs and then runs the scans. This is very thorough and will get rid of most if not all your spyware.
hmm i heard some bad things about hitman pro tbh
better check this link (http://www.surfing-safe.com/spyware/hitmanpro.php) before using it and see if it is ok for you
well, QuickTime is what started the movies revolution on personal computers for over a decade why change it?
Anyway, I suggest that you install the thing and then use that system restoration (or Time MAchine on XP) to move back ;)
Henry Ford was one of the first to built a car over decades ago, why dont we all drive Fords today? :lol:
Im generally against installing 3rd party software that causes my system to get messed up, besides i dont wanna do a restore of my system just because an app isnt properly made.
The majority can play an avi or mpeg file, at least 90% of the market which uses windows OS can, i must admit its a great laugh to put an add on the net that most ppl wont be able to see due to the use of an incompatible file format. ;)
Harrison Ford was one of the first to built a car over decades ago
Was that before or after he discovered the Temple of Doom? ;)
N
Grrr throw me a link for antivir. And do you now some better (if there is) antispyware than webroot's one?
I tried to solve my virus with freeware in the past, but after installing (I forget which one was) it supposedly found viruses but needed to pay for remove, which it was a deceit
edit: i found it
I bought XoftSpy some time ago, just to try it out, it seems to be an ok app, but a little pricey i think, yet it seems to be worth it, its very easy to use compared to spysweeper and ad-aware imo. :)
hmm i heard some bad things about hitman pro tbh
Better check this link (http://www.surfing-safe.com/spyware/hitmanpro.php) before using it and see if it is ok for you
Wouw, seems like a collection of bugs and halfway working apps, and that illegal way of removing the original ads that shd get the original authors their piece of the pie just becomes the frosting on this cake. :lol:
Id never go with something like that, i mean first of all, where do u go to get support? i dont think that guy who made this mess is gonna support anything here, i dont even think he's capable of it as he is no author of these apps!
So again my idea of "nothing is free in thios world" once again seems to be correct, this HMP is just another app to add to the collection of so-called freeware that instead of helping u out, messes up your computer. :rolleyes:
Was that before or after he discovered the Temple of Doom? ;)
N lol...
http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=tbn:CHbyv52ZrdnJiM:www.djfl.de/entertainment/stars/h/harrison_ford.jpg
Im generally against installing 3rd party software that causes my system to get messed up, besides i dont wanna do a restore of my system just because an app isnt properly made.
You must be talking of 90% of the software you use then...
On the other hand you admit you are using an OS, that has an infinite software base, that's only for the show, because if you try installing it "it messes the system up" The biggest and only advantage windows actually has, is it's biggest flow :lol: :lol: :D
Software IS there but DON'T install it!!!
The majority can play an avi or mpeg file, at least 90% of the market which uses windows OS can, i must admit its a great laugh to put an add on the net that most ppl wont be able to see due to the use of an incompatible file format. ;)
QT is just another file format you will eventually need. If it's so difficult to install a program in Wintendo then what are we talking about? All I can say is, you don't know what you miss
lol...
http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=tbn:CHbyv52ZrdnJiM:www.djfl.de/entertainment/stars/h/harrison_ford.jpg
:lol: yeah im doing 100 things at the same time her,e dunno why he came into my mind. LAMO :D
You must be talking of 90% of the software you use then...
On the other hand you admit you are using an OS, that has an infinite software base, that's only for the show, because if you try installing it "it messes the system up" The biggest and only advantage windows actually has, is it's biggest flow :lol: :lol: :D
Software IS there but DON'T install it!!!
QT is just another file format you will eventually need. If it's so difficult to install a program in Wintendo then what are we talking about? All I can say is, you don't know what you miss
Well i cant say that 90% of my software is messing up my system, rather quite the opposite as my system is running really good, even though i have a huge amount of software intalled in it.
But then sometimes apps like QT or other rarely seen 3rd party software comes around, and it tends to do things i dont want it to, like it wants to decide whats best for me, and i dont like that.
A player like QT shdnt by default associate with all files compatible to the app, it shd by default associate with its own files, then let the user add associations.
Its part of the easy of use policy that u dont have to unchk a lot of boxes during installation imo.
Theres prolly a reason that mov-files is rarely used, it could be that its incompatible to standard players, except when u get the workaround like QT alternative that is only a basic player without all the other stuff u dont need, its just like some ppl see the diff between Linux and Windows, they like Linux partially because they have to add everything themself, that they dont get bothered with a lot of extras they dont wanna use or spend time on anyway. :D
...and the battle goes on. ROFL
However its really educational discussing these issues i think, not only have i learned new things about other OS's but also i learned a lot about ppl and their computers. :)
For Christ's sake get QT... you are losing so much great p0rn.. you can adjust associations by yourself, or, let Steve do what is right for your system. It will then run more smoothly seriously
jini, maybe i can use the 100 euros that your going to owe me to buy vista :lol: :angel:
If I knew that when I was placing the bet.... :rolleyes:
By the way, one of the reasons I will be forced to purchase Vista, is the fact that I've gotta buy flight simulator X (I'm doomed purchasing anything with the "X" :lol: ) Do you know what Holiday 2006 means? August? or Xmas?
By the way, one of the reasons I will be forced to purchase Vista, is the fact that I've gotta buy flight simulator X (I'm doomed purchasing anything with the "X" :lol: ) Do you know what Holiday 2006 means? August? or Xmas?
As far as I understand it, "holiday" means the thanksgiving to christmas period in the USA. So erm, before christmas 2006 I'd guess.
For Christ's sake get QT... you are losing so much great p0rn.. you can adjust associations by yourself, or, let Steve do what is right for your system. It will then run more smoothly seriously
The porn comes for free in avi and mpeg format, and also my GF gives me more porn that i can even ask for! :lol:
The reason my system is running smoothly is prolly mostly due to the fact that i never visit porn sites and i never download freeware, u know freeware like smileys for messenger and bogus like that.
Every time at work i meet someone whose computer is running like shit, 90% of the cases is due to all the "free" crap they installed, like them avatars, smilies and other rather useless stuff. :lol:
Im no saint regarding the porn though, but ive been there like almost 10 yrs ago when i got my ownb first internet connection, i collected tons of porn from pay sites, but never payed a dime for it, i used all them warez sites to find hacked passes for those different sites. :D
However i got QT alternative to play mov files, so i can use that one for standalone files or i can use mediaplayer classic. :)
If I knew that when I was placing the bet.... :rolleyes:
:lol: looks like theres an extra punishment in losing that bet besides the money? :D
You are not Jobs I don't know or heard him ever comparing them, but if you insist what you actually say is something like a Ferrari > Cars which is obviously very simplistic and clearly a mistake.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DFJI3UmuTr0
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jz1arPaSSqo
Oh man, some of the spoofs on these commercials are great.
I never said anything about cash, there is a general saying "you get what you pay for" and so far I have hardly found a product that breaks this rule. I don't know to which ipods you are referring, be more specific please.
http://www.appleipodsettlement.com/
Claiming that the average Joe doesn't want to built quality stuff is yet another mistake, because 1)you don't know how average joe thinks and 2)if this was true then, very expensive high end items like silent fans from Zalman or 7800TG gpu cards would have never existed
You misunderstand me, but I'm too lazy to correct you right now.
In fact you will be surprised how come they don't need ANY kind of drivers to function, they are truly "plug and play". Same goes for keyboards
Um... WinXP has been like that since release .. 5 years ago. I think Windows98 was like that too, but I don't remember.
this is a monopoly test which I'm not intend to play, besides products fanctionality does not depend depend on business deals
Selectively avoiding tests.. good job!
Again I assume that claiming "OSX is hard to use", means that you own a mac already.
I don't own a mac, but I'm forced to use them in my job.
Anyway this is not an opinion based assumption, and claiming this makes me ask you a simple why? and what is it that you find more difficult to use than XP. Please explain.
Actually it is opinionated... I grew up using Macs, I went to PCs when I was dissapointed at the software support. Macs seem counter-intuitive because of what I've used for the last 14 years or so.
What do you say about this stupidity on XP with this uberconsolidated menu item "start" that fills easily a 30" screen with icons and then you need more screen? is this practical?
You can clean up your start menu and choose what you want to be there in the first place, as you can with the dock.
Can you imagine having to work Photoshop with only one menu item called "finish"? Does it really need a genius to understand this is not practical?
Wait what're you talking about? Are you saying that on a Mac, photoshop only requires you to push a button and it'll do everything for you? :confused:
Or is it something that is there just to say "I innovate I don't copy"?
Apple copies just as much as Microsoft does, they just market their copied product better to hide that they copied it.
How about having to pay for antivirus/antispyware/firewall external applications, why do you think Norton/Symantec is so rich?
I don't pay for antivirus/antispyware/firewall apps on my WinXP machine and I've never had a virus and I rarely get spyware, which only lasts about 2 seconds on my machine. Yes, they're totally free.
AVG, Spybot S&D, Zonelabs Firewall.
Dribble Joy
10-08-06, 00:55
Claiming that the average Joe doesn't want to built quality stuff is yet another mistake, because 1)you don't know how average joe thinks and 2)if this was true then, very expensive high end items like silent fans from Zalman or 7800TG gpu cards would have never existed
You're assuming the average Joe has ever heard of these two items at all.
What I want to know is why when Apple distribute an OS with a bunch of free software it's teh win, but when Microsoft do it it's a monopoly and they get fined a Brazilian dollars a second until they take it out.
N
What I want to know is why when Apple distribute an OS with a bunch of free software it's teh win, but when Microsoft do it it's a monopoly and they get fined a Brazilian dollars a second until they take it out.
N
Because, rather a alot of people claim to not like microsoft, even those who use it as their sole system and so take every oppurtunity to bitch.
Seems accurate enough.
Long thread, same argument (with jini apparently holding up the Apple side single-handedly :D) so anyways...
I use WinXPPro SP2 with the built in firewall enabled, and a router with some features too. Now where you shiver... I don't use any A/V software or spyware blockers... just Firefox. My install is... beats me 18 months old now, I use What's Running? (http://www.whatsrunning.net/whatsrunning/main.aspx) to keep track of what's going on (and Sandra and a few other progs...) Virus, Spyware on my system yet? Nope. Naughty programs running all the time in the background trying to 'keep me safe?' Nope. :p
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3QdGt3ix2CQ&mode=related&search=
=]
In fact you will be surprised how come they don't need ANY kind of drivers to function, they are truly "plug and play".I'm hoping they didn't mean for it to sound the way I'm thinking, and that is, that "a device doesn't need drivers to function, because it's plug and play", but if they did, I'll just say this. "Plug and Play" is what it is because the (often generic) drivers are already available to the system, to be automatically loaded whenever the device (such as a keyboard/mouse) is detected, it's not that they don't need any drivers, it's just that you generally won't have to manually go about installing them for them to work. I'm guessing the line in blue is what the writer of the quote was meant to say.
PS. This is something I stopped myself from posting at the time but I still proper dislike what was said so I think I'll sneak it in: *copies and pastes*
Seriously, that tar command is just bullshit.I really feel like saying something naughty but I'm resisting the urge. I write source primarily for Linux/unix-like operating systems (so avoiding the garble of crap known as the Windows API) and tar is an incredibly useful and simple archiving format. In conjunction with gzip it's the equivalent of the widely Windows associated zip file, but with superior performance and somewhat higher compression. Care to explain why it's bullshit?
I don't believe you're stupid, you're obviously quite intelligent so I'm guessing you dislike the extra bit of effort to extract files from an archive, compared to just clicking your mouse a few times like on Windows, but that's where you'll be wrong. That effort is generally optional; most flavours of Linux or other Unix-like OS's will have their own (or slightly modified versions of well known...) built in GUI-support for tar/gzip archives the same way zip files are now opened and created on the fly through Windows XP.
In the case of large open-source projects such as Mozilla Firefox, they just list the main simplistic (and manual) way of getting hold of and running their precompiled binary for Linux from their site, and therefore they point you in that direction. They also have the source readily available for those who want or need to compile/link from scratch. There are also package managers, in both command line and GUI format, that automate those very same tasks, and therefore all the large project maintainers create packages just for that end-user privelege.
Here's a quick example of that using Debians package manager (simply known as APT, or Advanced Package Manager) showing some of the results from the main respositories for packages containing "mozilla". Note: I removed some of the more garbage results like the 15+ language packs for the sake of keeping it a bit more interesting.
unreal@slasher:~$ apt-cache search mozilla
mozilla-browser - The Mozilla Internet application suite - core and browser
mozilla-dev - The Mozilla Internet application suite - development files
j2re1.4-mozilla-plugin - Java plugin for mozilla/firefox
mozilla-acroread - Adobe Acrobat(R) Reader plugin for mozilla / konqueror
mozilla-firefox - dummy transitional package
mozilla-stumbleupon - Mozilla addon for sharing interesting websites
mozilla-psm - The Mozilla Internet application suite - Personal Security Manager (PSM)
mozilla-thunderbird - Mozilla Thunderbird standalone mail client
mozilla-thunderbird-dev - mozilla thunderbird development files
Then the other thing I was going to reply about.
Microsoft are over-representing the amount of memory required to run Vista. The stated minimum is 512MB but it will actually run with less.I never said Vista couldn't run with less than 512MB of RAM, I just said you'll need considerably more than 512MB for it to run well, especially so when comparing it to the hardware specifications the average joe (with no clue about hardware) will typically have (ie. cheap and generally slow hardware that comes as standard with various package deals). Microsoft aren't over-representing anything; they're stating the minimum requirements for average use and performance. Gamers will need 2GB of RAM at the very least, and that's a requirement which has been a regularity for gamers wanting to get the very best performance out of the more intense games in terms of graphics/physics/lighting/etc available to Windows, like Far Cry, Crysis, FEAR, Prey and whatever else.
Earlier today I unplugged all my hardware in this machine and put my hoover on reverse to blow away all the dust and then put all the hardware back in, saving the memory till last, as I was stealing an extra 2GB of RAM for use on this machine out of one of my computers in the other room. So, I put the first 512 stick in, pushed it down and closed the plastic things that lock it in place, then I slot the rest in, and at that moment I get a phone call from some Indian guy telling me I won a free Timeshare holiday to Portugal. I say the words "oh ffs" and put the phone down, return to the computer and never realised I didn't lock the other sticks of memory in place.
I then slide the case back together and stand it back up in its usual position and press the power button. Vista automatically boots up and logs back in to the default account with nothing running but the default services and the Aero Glass/Vista theme. I then run MSN Messenger and Mozilla Firefox, and quickly got the message that I've ran out of memory. This is of course when I find out that I forgot to lock the rest of the sticks in place and that they fell out of the slots when I turned the PC back onto its feet. :rolleyes: Thankfully none of them were damaged. It then chugs about trying to force data in memory to the page file and lowers RAM use by a fair amount, but because of the constant juggling of data to try and free up my memory the performance was quite awful, even with the data transfer being done to/from a fast 74GB 10000RPM (Raptor) HDD and a lone 512MB stick of DDR2-800.
So since the other RAM obviously wasn't slotted in, I only had 512MB of RAM available, which resulted in sluggish performance as described above, just running the default theme and a few low memory applications. I say "low", Vista always manages to make any application hog your memory, at least it has in me and my friends personal experiences. As we speak I'm writing this post in Mozilla Firefox with just a single tab open (ie. Neocron Forum - Reply to Topic), and it's using up 72.4MB of memory all by itself. Along with listening to a single mp3 stream in Winamp, and having MSN Messenger running in the background, this brings my total memory usage to 520MB.
If you look at the first attached screenshot the guy who took it has 294MB of RAM in use with only 509.4MB available. He's running nothing (except possibly one third party application shown on the taskbar - never seen the icon before) but the default services and the DWM (Desktop Window Manager) which is responsible for the new 3D based features like the Glass effect and Flip 3D. Though looking at the screenshot he seems to have Aero Glass disabled which hints that he's probably not using as much memory as normal).
The second attachment shows someone in the same resource hogging situation. From the place I found the screenshot he says
Here my active processes:
Microsoft Outlook 2007
Windows Mail (for the newsgroup)
MSN Messenger
one window of IE7 with a pair of tab
one window of Firefox
the Task Manager…He has 1022MB of RAM available and 478.8MB of RAM in use. You think someone is going to be able to run Vista with 256MB of RAM and get good performance? I doubt it, not unless they're taking advantage of the new ReadyBoost feature, utilizing a USB Flash Memory card as a piece of memory.
My only point about the RAM topic thus far is that the average person (ie, someone with just 512MB or 1GB RAM, most likely RAM with low/medium clock speeds at that) is definitely going to need to upgrade to a higher amount if they want to use applications more advanced than notepad with any good amount of performance. That's without bringing Gaming into the equation. Even my 2 and a half year old laptop I leave at work for everyone to mess about on has 1GB of RAM. 256MB is rediculously small for this day and age. Unfortunately it's not just a myth as some people think.
Several companies have already made plans to produce 4GB memory kits to be available just before Vista goes retail. I wonder why that is? :rolleyes:
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=30503
Then I randomly came across:
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=25094
I guess that last one explains why my videos are blurry/blocky on Vista. heh :(
Edit: 8| after watching that video just now. The "Real" Windows Vista, lol. Haven't seen those taskbar/alt-tab features in Beta 2. So if those features aren't enabled for us in Beta 2, that must be one extra reason why companies are getting ready to sell the 4GB (2x2GB) memory kits. Pretty sure those features will eat up more memory than we see at the moment.
What I want to know is why when Apple distribute an OS with a bunch of free software it's teh win, but when Microsoft do it it's a monopoly and they get fined a Brazilian dollars a second until they take it out.
N
Because they have VERY good reasons to believe Microsoft is going to do it again (ex. i.e & netscape). If they don't M$ will certainly walk the same steps more discretely this time but certainly will.
However the real truth is, that microsoft gives some free tools with XP, only they are so primitive that you don't even try them. It seems that all microsoft really does is making patch after patch fixing security holes and such, photocopying, or preparing (last 5 years) Vista. In fact there is a security fix waiting for installation in my XP as we speak going to install it nooowwwwwwww........
You're assuming the average Joe has ever heard of these two items at all.
I am seeing Average Joes every time I visit the stores. Every single time I am tripping on people that "think" they know better. Now in those stores I find stupid boxes that feed the appetites of these young apprentices and now I can see that innovation has made possible "hold your breath" the introduction of fans with blue leds,!!!111 or usb cable with a red led in each end that lights up when connected... or those water radiators everywhere... the PC can now become part of your house's central heating. For me it's easy to understand why all this is happening and I prefer paying double the premium to mr. Jobs than wasting my cash like this.
@ Zovos: nice video mate lol. In fact all videos presented are beautifull
@ Glok: nice idea this one. I didn't knew this s/w. Me too, I wanted to go w/o those memory resident little apps that are so annoying, but I didnt knew something like that existed, and in the end I caught a spyware
In my opinion this is what generally is happening:
Most PC users are trying to judge something that have never seen or used or ever touched before. They are trying to judge based on their very own experience from PCs, because this is what they own and they cant afford to buy something else. Most users are doing what Sizzler actually does: they don't trust easily 3rd party s/w because it really makes their system unstable. And most, like Sizzler don't know what they miss. Sizzler for instance was trying to understand what time machine does by listening to a video, without picture !!! Sadly this is how most people judge these days.
For me, mac OSX introduced 3 very important things:
1. Notorious system integration: The product works as soon as you plug it in a socket. There's no need for specialised software packages. This addresses the needs of every individual's personal organization
2. Spotlight: this is innovation. When it was introduced, it changed the way people retrieve information. This is a huge step for people that need to find things fast (ex: a salesman to find a long lost record)
3. Time machine: This, for the cheap price of an external disk drive can effectively secure all your system along with files. This is also innovation, and as such other OSs will also copy it, that's for sure, simply because people will demand it just like they demanded spotlight(that will eventually come with vista). There were backup programs before, but none was working the way time machine will work, just like there were a lot of ideas here and there floating but no actual product ever existed untill Jobs decided to make a Macintosh.
In the end all this very healthy competition with the 2 OSs is making us all good as is clearly shown, simply because you guys that use a Wintendo will finally be able to use these little tools, but claiming that "Apple copies as much as M$ Koshinn"... is a bit too much, unless you show us here what exactly is it that you mean. And please don't refer the Xerox Parc lab again: this is included to what I say a bunch of ideas.
Edit
In this video http://youtube.com/watch?v=upzKj-1HaKw&mode=related&search= of Jobs you can all understand what is that it motivates him the most: same as in his yesterday's keynote he highlights "the terms Culture and Art". This is why he puts so much effort indesign and function, and this is why he succeeds
Edit2
And since we are into the videos thing... here's another one http://youtube.com/watch?v=4soR5mHY9Fo&mode=related&search=
Edit3
And here is a speech he gave in Stanford. http://youtube.com/watch?v=D1R-jKKp3NA&mode=related&search= in this, you can understand why its one thing gathering vague ideas about how a product must work and quite another building it. Mac of '84 when it was a king on the hill with those Laser writers ( I remember that era) and here is the reason what was that made it a king and what Im saying when I refer to Art
And finally: would you ever rely on this guy to design/make your next generation OS VIsta, Vista2007 or whatever?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXF5Bp4IELs&mode=related&search=
This thread should be closed for breaking the rule on discusing religion. :rolleyes:
Some more comments though, because we all like a good ruck:
1) I don't care how efficient tar is or how good some flavours of Linux are at emulating Windows' ease of use in installing software, typing a command followed by four command line switches is most definitely bullshit. Memory, CPU power and diskspace are not limiting factors any more so making people's lives difficult just to save a few bytes is a poor tradeoff. The simple fact is that one Linux is not the same as another and that in itself leads to problems, meaning people have to use the lowest common denominator; a tar command.
2) Digging a little deeper, software pre-requisites are also something that impacts on ease of installation so let's take a look at them...
Windows: Just the OS. Anything from 98 through to 2003 Server. Easy - works with pretty much anything out there.
Mac: Again, just the OS. Slightly more restrictive because it needs OSX 10.2 minimum which wasn't released until August 2002.
Linux: Oops...
Linux kernel - 2.2.14 or higher with the following libraries or packages:
glibc 2.3.2 or higher
XFree86-3.3.6 or higher
gtk+2.0 or higher
fontconfig (also known as xft)
libstdc++5
Firefox has been tested on Linux Fedora Core 4We have the usual OS restriction (2000 onwards so better than OSX but not as good as Windows) but we also have 5, count them 5 packages that we need to be sure are also installed. But wait, one them also goes by a different name, just to make things even more super easy for the oft-mentioned "average joe".
2) I notice that the memory requirements for Firefox are identical for Windows and Linux (minimum and recommended)
3) Here's one jini and Unreal will love - the memory requirements for OSX are twice that for Windows or Linux! Again, why is it that when Apple released a machine over a year ago that needed a minimum of 1GB to get any kind of reasonable performance no one bats an eyelid, yet when Microsoft do it it's a hugely terrible mistake? I've already pointed you at a blog from someone who knows what they're talking about when it comes to Vista and memory but I guess you didn't see it. Let me point out an interesting part:
To illustrate that this is not an aberration, this screenshot (http://thelazyadmin.net/images/vista/vista-mem-myth-3.jpg) shows the same system running multiple apps across an enormous 3.2 million pixel desktop with full desktop composition enabled (Aero Glass). The apps in use include Windows Media Player (playing a 640x480 MPEG-2 recording of CSI transferred from a Tivo), multiple instances of IE 7 with multiple tabs open, GAIM with session to IRC and MSN IM, Vista Sidebar, Tivo Desktop in the process of transferring video and the afore mentioned background instance of IIS 7 and MS Virtual Server. Total commit charge is 1.04 GB (1/4 of the total possible) with only about 400MB of actual physical memory in use.This clearly shows that Vista is not the resource hog you are painting it out to be.
4) Every time I see "M$" I just think "From my parent's basement in Wyoming I stab at thee". Penny-arcaders will know what I mean.
5) I agree with Unreal that the Windows API is a pile of crap, largely because it is ancient. That's why I developed Cronalyser using the .NET framework which is a development environment at least equal to any other out there.
Nidhoog - I think Unreal's point is that command given will work on all dostros of Linux. Most people however use a desktop environment that is capable of simplifying the process to a couple of clicks.
Jini is clearly just trolling now, spouting the same thing with no reasonable arguments or recognition of the points made for or against him. Fanbois - they are just funny.
What I want to know is why when Apple distribute an OS with a bunch of free software it's teh win, but when Microsoft do it it's a monopoly and they get fined a Brazilian dollars a second until they take it out.
N
Now I don't stick to one OS. I use what I think is right for the job. At work, it's a Microsoft shop, so it's all .NET and some older MS stuff as well, and sourcesafe for source control.
At home, I have a mix of Linux and Windows. Downstairs there is a P233MXX server (Yes a P233MMX server thats nearly 9 years old) thats the server for the whole network, and the source control for a lot of my projects. So at home I could be using .NET for coding, and using subversion for source control.
Now this subversion is great, as I can check out files on any OS, including MacOS, Windows and Linux. The team who wrote subversion made sure it was open source to make this possible, and to allow others to freely take the code and add a GUI. It also allows others to contribute to the project, by submitted bug fixes or enhancements.
Ok lets takes Microsoft's sourcesafe. Can I use it to check out files on a MacOS. No I can't. Is the source available for me to compile on MacOS? No. Is the Sourcesafe protocol documents available? No. Are their 3rd Party versions of sourcesafe, I'm sure there are, but how reliable are they without the original source or documentation?
This sort of question comes up a lot for a lot of software products, which in turn makes you ask why Microsoft can have an monopoly on anything, espically when they take a patent out on a product or technology.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3QdGt3ix2CQ&mode=related&search=
=]
Video is quite good actually, theres a thing or two there that seem to be pretty useful, i like the way it switches between apps and how it presents images etc.
But the best part however, is the discussion below where a bunch of kids collected from various kindergardens are arguing, i was like omg and LOL at the same time. :D
Unreal>>
Im running with 2x 512MB Elixir and when my win xphas been loaded and standing by, it has allocated 350megs of ram, then if i (like it is at this very moment) run my outlook express and a browser window, im upto using 395 megs.
Ofcourse a couple of apps r running in the background:
ICQ
Messenger
Driver/tools for my Brother Fax machine
NAV 2006
NPF 2006
Popup killer
Daemon tools
Activesync (for my Ipaq)
SpamInspector
Then theres all the drivers etc...
The top scorers is:
IE (30MB)
Explorer.exe (23MB)
Spamfilterengine (16MB)
Popup killer (9MB)
Outlook express (8MB)
I aint however experiencing any slowdowns and i never see my physical ram all eaten up and the computer running slow due to load on the pagefile, my pagefile btw is 1.5Gigs fixed size.
The only time i see my ram chewed totally up is when i have like 2Gigs of uncompressed AVI (from my video kamera) loaded into Sony Vegas, but even then my system isnt becoming slower.
So thats basically why i dont care how much ram it takes, as long as i dont "feel" it myself it can take whatever it wants to. ;)
I tried (for fun) to install Firefox 1.5 and go to this exact same page and pasting in this here text as i write it, it takes the second place in RAM consumption in the process window by allocating 24MB of RAM.
IE works fine for me and ive tried running FF before over a longer period, i dont dislike it at all, its GUI is even good loooking and i find it easy to use, but there is no features in it i find to be better for me than keep using IE.
If i shd switch completely to FF it would be like trading my Honda MC for a Suzuki, they might differ a little, but they both do me the same job, get me from A to B as fast as i want to. :D
But in credit to FF, besides the GUI and all that, it doesnt try to force u in any direction upon install, it doesnt set itself as the deafult browser, it lets u chose, just like it lets u chose whether to import IE settings, start page etc.
See thats a good app that knows why its there, its there to serve the user, not to have the user served (on a silver plate). :lol:
Sizzler actually does: they don't trust easily 3rd party s/w because it really makes their system unstable. And most, like Sizzler don't know what they miss. Sizzler for instance was trying to understand what time machine does by listening to a video, without picture !!! Sadly this is how most people judge these days.
Actually i dint judge nothing, if i read my reply in full ud become aware that i was trying ur link, didnt get the video because someone didnt wanna use a standard file format thats support by all OSs.
Next i go ahead and listen to the audio as its all itll let me do there, then i actually asked if i could get an explanation of what the actual (meaningful) idea was with the timemachine compared to "normal" backup sytems.
If i had judged it, id be saying it was good or bad, thats a judgement, but i never did that i just tried to gather information about the app/feature and i couldnt get it, but i never said anything to judge the "timemachine".
However i indeed do think that its a huge mistake publishing a video file with info on something so fantastic in a file format that isnt support as is on any OS and thats a judgement, but a judgement of the ppl behind the promo video, not the product promoted with it. ;)
Ok lets takes Microsoft's sourcesafe.
Please do. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who likes that piece of junk.
Can I use it to check out files on a MacOS. No I can't. Is the source available for me to compile on MacOS? No.All true, but Sourcesafe is specifically targetted at Microsoft platforms, so why would you want to? Are you masochistic or something? ;)
Is the Sourcesafe protocol documents available? No.
Not entirely true. Sourcesafe has a documented automation interface and there are tools out there (such as Cruise Control.NET) that allow developers using Sourcesafe, Subversion and a bunch of others to work together.
Are their 3rd Party versions of sourcesafe, I'm sure there are, but how reliable are they without the original source or documentation?I'm not sure if a 3rd-party version of Sourcesafe makes sense actually.
This sort of question comes up a lot for a lot of software products, which in turn makes you ask why Microsoft can have an monopoly on anything, espically when they take a patent out on a product or technology.
Patents are entirely different ballgame and one that every vendor has to play these days. There are far too many ridiculous patent claims floating around for anyone to be under any illusions; you have to nail everything down.
In any case, Microsoft are moving away from Sourcesafe, thankfully. The latest Visual Studio Team Foundation uses a completely new technology that is far more open than Sourcesafe ever was. Look it up, it's quite interesting.
The sooner Sourcesafe dies the better, IMHO.
N
Ignoring the fact that sourcesafe is a pile of crap, my main point is you can get the source code for subversion, and you can't get it for sourcesafe. Like you can't get the source code for Windows, IE, Mediaplayer etc, and you can for Linux, Firefox etc.
In any case, Microsoft are moving away from Sourcesafe, thankfully. The latest Visual Studio Team Foundation uses a completely new technology that is far more open than Sourcesafe ever was. Look it up, it's quite interesting.
The sooner Sourcesafe dies the better, IMHO.
N
On the actually subject of sourcesafe I agree with you on that. Sourcesafe is a pile of crap. I know the other half of the dev team at work are looking/using Team Foundation Server on their current .NET project, but I'm working on a different project which is tied to some old software, and moving to different source control product mid-project cycle is not a good idea.
Ignoring the fact that sourcesafe is a pile of crap, my main point is you can get the source code for subversion, and you can't get it for sourcesafe. Like you can't get the source code for Windows, IE, Mediaplayer etc, and you can for Linux, Firefox etc.
Yeah but why do you want it? Remember, we're not talking about security consultants or corporate standard setters here, we're talking about "average joe". Average joe doesn't care a jot that he can download the source for Firefox.
I'm a senior professional in my field and even I don't care about Open Source. When I have to use a third-party component I make damn sure that the product works within the tolerances that I decide and that I have a partnership arrangement with the vendor to resolve any issues outside of those tolerances. The development world has easily reached the point where software can be re-used without the need to fall back to the source code. In fact, the very last thing I am ever going to do is to start fannying around fixing someone else's code because that way lies many, many problems of its own.
If and when I get to v3.0 of Cronalyser I will release its functionality as a fully documented .NET assembly that anyone can use free of charge, but there's no need for anyone to have to download my source. For one thing there could be all kinds of intellectual capital in there that makes my Cronalyser better than a competing Cronalyser that supports exactly the same interface.
Anyway, we're getting gradually further and further away from the the topic of the thread, so let me say in closing, that Cronalyser will be supported on Vista. ;)
N
/edit - this isn't to say that I wouldn't use an Open Source component if it was the best one for the job, but I wouldn't be at all interested in maintaining said component.
because someone didnt wanna use a standard file format thats support by all OSsAVI is a container format. That means I can give you an .avi file your software will never be able to show, because it can't decode the contained information. So, yes, .avi as such is easily readable by many programs ("standard file format"), but the contained data can be anything, heck, it could be even your dreaded .mov bits'n'bytes.
And while we are at it, Brammers pointed out the usefulness of open source (even more so: free) software. A similar state of interoperability can be reached by using standards. Getting websites to work, which show the very same on the most used browsers is a pain in the rear already, just as one example. Even worse, there exists recommendations for this and M$ (Jehova! *starts to jump up and down*:p) is even part of the crew who is responsible for these recommendations, so they better align their IE7 to this.
Anyway, none of the existing systems is good for the "average joes" out there. It's like putting someone on a drivers seat and tell them to drive without any prior knowledge of this. It may work out at some point, but the type of car you put them in in the beginning doesn't matter much.
The funny things start when these now professional drivers meet again, talk about their experiences and then begin to discuss about which car is better (while some just switch the cars depending on the task/s which lie/s ahead).
3) Here's one jini and Unreal will love - the memory requirements for OSX are twice that for Windows or Linux! Again, why is it that when Apple released a machine over a year ago that needed a minimum of 1GB to get any kind of reasonable performance no one bats an eyelid, yet when Microsoft do it it's a hugely terrible mistake? I've already pointed you at a blog from someone who knows what they're talking about when it comes to Vista and memory but I guess you didn't see it. Let me point out an interesting part:This clearly shows that Vista is not the resource hog you are painting it out to be.
Not sure what exactly you want to say with this. First, most of Apple's machines, use a base of 512mb Ram and they work. They ship with 512mb modules. Second, it's not a big deal already, since Ram modules are so cheap anyway, so I don't really understand what you are talking. Did I ever said anything about how resource hungry Vista or macOS are?
Besides all this is irrelevant, since there actually isn't Vista out yet. It's just a beta product waiting for production. If not, then I can join conversation about how darkfall beats NC hands down ;)
Jini is clearly just trolling now, spouting the same thing with no reasonable arguments or recognition of the points made for or against him. Fanbois - they are just funny.
Well I fail to see where the Trolling is, I'm only trying to justify my very simple 3 points of view and nothing more. From all those that replied, only Koshinn justified his opinion. I prefer being a fanboi, than staying behind in the shadows, making arrogant remarks for things that I hardly know off :rolleyes:
Well, putting all the that non-important stuff aside, has anyone managed to get Neocron run on it?
Hmm.. and since Im here, Id also liked to say to all of you who say nice looking interface is a "waste of resources".. well, if you have the resources and youre not using them at all, isnt that even more waste than at least using them for transparent windows or whatnot? Also, (IMO) for example w2k interface compared to xp/2003 is crap. People saying something else are either blind or over 120 year old grumps who either cant or dont want to see that new can actually be better than bag of olds. Did you know that you can use an invention called the TELEPHONE to talk with other people across long distances and not having to shout so loud? I havent made my decision about Vista, but I have a feeling that the interface will actually turn out to be quite good, having lots of shortcuts all over and everywhere. Im also still young enough to actually learn to use something new.
Hehe ^^ I LOVE VISTA ^^ Sexy design btw ^^ And stable for me :)
Congrats to MS ^^
Asurmen Spec Op
15-09-06, 00:43
Vista felt way to flashy for my tastes
Vista felt way to flashy for my tastesHeh that's what I said about XP, now I think it's boring. Bring on Vista!
Asurmen Spec Op
15-09-06, 02:06
Heh that's what I said about XP, now I think it's boring. Bring on Vista!
I never said I liked XP's look either
I never said I liked XP's look eitherNo shit. You got grey hair dude? :lol:
Asurmen Spec Op
15-09-06, 02:37
No shit. You got grey hair dude? :lol:
I turned 17 in July :)
Darq[Terra]
15-09-06, 08:28
Well, in the interest of staying on topic. I loaded Vista64 on my system the other day and am slowly working out some of the driver issues I've had. Some still persist however. Anyway, I'll share info on any issues I encounter with Neocron, or other games even.
....and so was the ppls comments when going from win 3.1 to win 95, all of a sudden a lot of stuff was in no way the way i used to be, but after ppl went win95 they didnt wanna go back to 3.1
Major changes often seem to be to the worse, untill you experince the reason it was made in the first place.
Take any other electronic appliance from todays homes, like a washing machine, they come in sci-fi design and with digital displays that even tells you how long itll take till the wash is finished!
For COL what do we need it for? in the "old" days we had clean clothes without the washing machine havin any kinda worthless digital displays or shit like that and with all that hitech implementation in that field, we still just get our clothes cleaned using that machine. ;-)
I installed Windows Vista today on my machine (not through virtual pc) and I just love the gui effects ^^. Anyway, I got some 'major' problems with it. It seems like DNS wont resolve properly on some domains. For example, I cannot browse www.google.com (http://www.google.com) or www.microsoft.com (http://www.microsoft.com) www.altavista.se (http://www.altavista.se) but I can browse neocron.jafc.de www.altavista.com (http://www.altavista.com) etc. It's really weird.. And I can't use windows update either because of this problem ^^. Any ideas? (Turned off firewall etc.)
I installed Windows Vista today on my machine (not through virtual pc) and I just love the gui effects ^^. Anyway, I got some 'major' problems with it. It seems like DNS wont resolve properly on some domains. For example, I cannot browse www.google.com (http://www.google.com) or www.microsoft.com (http://www.microsoft.com) www.altavista.se (http://www.altavista.se) but I can browse neocron.jafc.de www.altavista.com (http://www.altavista.com) etc. It's really weird.. And I can't use windows update either because of this problem ^^. Any ideas? (Turned off firewall etc.)
Try usin a different DNS server. Could be a problem with Vista w/ the DNS server you're using.
Yeah I fixed it. It was indeed the DNS server. Since I'm in a private network (192.168.0.x), the dns is automatically set onto my router and that didn't seem to work so good. I dont know if it is the router that is so old it can't comprehend some Vistas DNS requests or if it's the other way around but it was very weird. I simply just used my ISP's dns server instead of the local network one's and it worked perfect. :)
Clive tombstone
16-09-06, 01:37
I heard some wierd rumors about vista of some sorts, about how they have a "hidden" product protection system to prevent pirated software (some form of detection system that reports the case to the manufacturers of said software, so that lawsuites may insue) is that true?
Darq[Terra]
16-09-06, 03:59
I heard some wierd rumors about vista of some sorts, about how they have a "hidden" product protection system to prevent pirated software (some form of detection system that reports the case to the manufacturers of said software, so that lawsuites may insue) is that true?
I know this was originally slated to be included in Vista, but have not yet encountered it with the 4-5 apps I tried testing it with. I can't remember if it was removed or not, or if it only works with officially branded "Vista compatible" software.
afaik that protection system needs a chip that is not yet installed on mainboards
Darq[Terra]
16-09-06, 06:40
Ahh, that's right. I forgot about that part of it.
Wow, you people are sheep.
It's no wonder Reakktor doesn't care about Linux users, all the Windows bigotry drowns out the advocation of freedom.
Afaik there is only protection against video and sound, encrypting the data somehow so you can't share it or something like that. Google it :).
Wow, you people are sheep.
It's no wonder Reakktor doesn't care about Linux users, all the Windows bigotry drowns out the advocation of freedom.
why exactly are we sheap???
:confused:
Darq[Terra]
17-09-06, 10:15
Wow, you people are sheep.
It's no wonder Reakktor doesn't care about Linux users, all the Windows bigotry drowns out the advocation of freedom.
Nice troll post there...
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