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View Full Version : What's changed? Yes... Another one...



newbe5
27-06-06, 17:55
OK, I've read through a few on the "I'm thinking of coming abck, what's changed?" threads and no-one seemed to really bring this up that I could see, so I'm giong to break the ice...

Have they finally fixed the goddamn gfx engine? You know what I mean... Stuff springing all over the place, monsters having both sets of legs on the same side if their body so you couldn't select them... Various other enormous annoyances and bugs that seemed to stem from a decrepid engine that they never seemed to want to change?

If that abse thing has been changed, then I might think about a comeback, but last I played, they had actually carried bugs over FROM NC1 to NC2 (sequel my ass).

Soo, yea, if anyone could let me know on those things that'd be top.

newbe5

calim
27-06-06, 19:17
I'm afraid ....but no... clipping issues are still there.
I love when the camera stay behind the wall while you run :o

Is this so hard to fix that kind of 3D engine issue ? clipping and camera handling ?

newbe5
28-06-06, 10:08
Looks like I won't be coming back to neocron then. I hate this, such a great concept game and such a very VERY poor graphics implementation.

calim
28-06-06, 10:27
But it's still playable... you just have to not fight in specific places ;)

Spermy
28-06-06, 11:01
If you know it's built on an old engine, why are you asking if it's been updated. You'd have to tear the whole damn thing apart to redo that. In reference to graphical errors, I no longer recieve the vast major of graphical bugs from NC1 and 2 beta. The parts of the game they can change in relation to graphics, IE skins and models etc, have been updated in areas.


To be honest, I worry less about how it looks and more about how it plays. This looks more like an excuse to bitch to me.

Syntax-Error
01-07-06, 12:48
Id have to say, it could do with a few touch ups with how it plays aswell. and you dont have to rip anything appart to update the graphics...

SizZLeR
01-07-06, 13:09
Id have to say, it could do with a few touch ups with how it plays aswell. and you dont have to rip anything appart to update the graphics...

U ever tried programming and even worse, "repair" a program?

Games like this consists of zeillions of lines of code, bugs will always be there!

If they spent all the time fixing the graphics, ppl would be whining about something else instead.

Take any game out there, let me play it and ill write u a bug report so long u can use it as a whole year supply of toiletpaper. :lol:

Im not saying that graphics clipping is ok in any way, i hate is just as much as anyone else, and id love to see it go away, along with a shitload of other minor bugs.

Try and go back to the good old 80's load tron or something into your atari 2600, i bet u can even find bugs in that game, even though those cartridges wasnt containing more than (guessing 32 Kbyte tops).

If they cant even make such a small game bugfreem, how would one expect anyone to make games like NC, Battlefield and similar bug free?!?

When i was a writer for bfgamer.net, we made an interview with the executive producer & senior designer A.J. Marini of DICE Canada, bugs was a huge topic in that interview and he told us that we could take any game out there and he'd prove that it had bugs in it, as he also said, it IS a game!!

Take a game like guildwars, i believe theres something about u r not able to "jump" in that game?!? and it aint not even a real bug, actually its lack of feature, ofcourse the game is composed so u dont need to jump to play it, but i mean still, u r running with a toon with two legs, why the hell cant he jump?!?

So to quote Mr. Marini, "Take any game out there, and it'll have bugs in it". ;)

Bugs is bad and shdnt be there, but like in real life, not everything is as convinient as it could be, aka nothing is perfect.. :)

RusSki
01-07-06, 14:13
To be honest, I worry less about how it looks and more about how it plays. This looks more like an excuse to bitch to me.

Exactly, if i wanted to play a game that looked great i'd play far cry or fear. Thankfully i prefer to have fun rather than look at a nice picture.

Syntax-Error
01-07-06, 18:01
Actually iam a programmer, im currently at uni studing games programming. graphics i admit are a small part of overall enjoyment. but neocron hardly has only "small" bugs, something that killed neocron 1 was the fact that it was very unstable for alot of people (not all i admit ) the legendary FRE's was a killer alone.

Impractical as it may be, the ONLY way i can see neocron picking back up to even what it used to be is a massive overhall of the entire engine. or even upgrading to a totally new one. however we all know thats not going to happen for several very good reasons.

Croatoan
02-07-06, 00:02
Better call your friends.....nay.....you're TOWN up on the phone and get them all subscribed so we can get some cash flowing into KKs pocket so they can improve it!

Pantho
02-07-06, 03:20
Actually iam a programmer, im currently at uni studing games programming. graphics i admit are a small part of overall enjoyment. but neocron hardly has only "small" bugs, something that killed neocron 1 was the fact that it was very unstable for alot of people (not all i admit ) the legendary FRE's was a killer alone.

Impractical as it may be, the ONLY way i can see neocron picking back up to even what it used to be is a massive overhall of the entire engine. or even upgrading to a totally new one. however we all know thats not going to happen for several very good reasons.

UNI? Since when has R***** V***** College Been a UNI.

BTEC National is lvl 3,

-edit, Also i see you moaning in new thread about Nick Naming this forum the Flame wars or some crap. If you check your recent posts.... There all flames.

Also as im in a bad mood, ur Mysql server for ur site is offline.

Ryen
02-07-06, 08:26
Better call your friends.....nay.....you're TOWN up on the phone and get them all subscribed so we can get some cash flowing into KKs pocket so they can improve it!

But in order to do that, the developers will have to fix the game. I can easily do with the graphics and camera issues (but even mario 64 had a pretty incredible camera), but I can't stand with a broken, unfun game. I tried to love this game just because it's cyberpunk so god damn much, but it's a pain when you finally mature and see it for what it actually is.

Also, I would like to point to a few games that are developed by small developers with small budgets to start with that either became huge successes, or the developer is able to maintain and continue to develop the game despite not making WoW like profits. Because I'm really tired of the argument "The only reason we don't have everything good games have is because of the small team and few subscribers".

Eve Online - http://www.eve-online.com/
A small developer from an unheard of country in game development that became one of the more popular mmo's out there.

A Tale in The Desert - http://www.atitd.com/
A small game now reaching it's third iteration, with constant updates coming from a group of less then ten people with a subscriber base of around 1000 people paying 12$ a month. From the developers own mouth, they are barely breaking even. Yet the game is being developed for, and advances are being made all of the time.

Meridian 59 - http://meridian59.neardeathstudios.com/
Back before everquest, this was the mmo. Today, it actually profits off of only around 60 subscribers. The developers (a team of only three people) are still adding content, and actually live off of the money they get from this.

My last two examples alone should show that a small team can still be a good team, and money does not equal a better game. But Eve Online (CCP) was in the exact same position as Neocron at a similar time, only they had a much smaller beta and even more limited fan-fare then Neocron (If you remember during beta, Neocron was a gigantic hit on the internet just for being an FPSMMORPG cyberpunk combo). Actually, CCP probably got even more of a shaft then Rekktor did, only they actually improved the game and kept working with it until it was great.

In short, Rekktor's situation is not unique. Infact, their situation is almost identical to CCP's, only CCP is now one of the bigger players in the MMO industry and Rekktor dug a deep, dark hole for itself. Now the players (and even some forum moderators) are using the fact that Rekktor made bad business decisions and spinning it to say that the game is in it's current state due to people not wanting to play the game. Wonder why.

neai
03-07-06, 02:37
"Take any game out there, and it'll have bugs in it"
Yeah but bugs can be patched.

My first impressions after beta4 were "Instant cult game! Just add players." and "What a poor engine!". It seemed as if it was a giant steaming pile of code, everytime a bug was fixed in patch random new ones would appear. After 4 years of unf***ing it it's not bad but it's really old now. I'm not blaming anyone for bugs in new engine though. Bugs in such projects are unevitable, all the good engines were crap at some point and it took years to fix them.

Some time ago we've seen the DX:IW engine stunt, they took Unreal Engine and rewrote it completly. Or to be more precise, they let some rambo programmer write a pretty looking new engine. Before they noticed how ugly the turd was under gold plating it was too late, they had to spent rest of the development time fixing it instead of working on the game. The result was a smashing hit figuratively speaking, smashed a strong company to little bits and sent employees flying in all directions.

If the gameplay can be balanced & improved in NC2.x, NC3.0 could add just *proven* (ie UE3 or 2.5) engine and art. Such game, with balanced gameplay and updated engine, could end in top 10 next to WoW and EVE.

Syntax-Error
03-07-06, 02:54
Sam, before you trying posting personal information about myself again. how about you know.. you actually get a clue. im now a full member of Derby University studying Games Program.

Oh also the course was an OCR lvl 4 in Media Animation and Games not a btec you clueless tard.

Oh msg from the guys : "apparently that stunts your growth" "Got 5? hmm no.. just 4" "gimmi 5" and oh.. "roll roll roll roll roll roll bang head"


Next time you wana try showing off online. maybe you should have some intelligence and keep up with the times

Ryen
03-07-06, 03:49
Sam, before you trying posting personal information about myself again. how about you know.. you actually get a clue. im now a full member of Derby University studying Games Program.

Good luck being taken seriously.

Syntax-Error
03-07-06, 13:53
oh yes. because i will be so so very upset if the people online dont belive i go to uni :rolleyes:

Ryen
03-07-06, 16:02
oh yes. because i will be so so very upset if the people online dont belive i go to uni :rolleyes:

No, I mean good luck being taken seriously in the game design world, because pretty much any developer with half a brain (everyone except EA) shuns people with degrees. Game design isn't something that can be taught, unless you want to be a mindless worker.

Syntax-Error
03-07-06, 18:34
really.. and you actually belive that?

hrm intresting view of the world.. lol

Spermy
03-07-06, 18:57
really.. and you actually belive that?

hrm intresting view of the world.. lol

Take the degree, and burn it. Do you know howe many clueless kids like you are wandering off thinking they can just pick up a job in that sector?

Do the math.

The degree has been mainstream for 5 years at least. Think how many graduates have passed through the doors of any uni running that course. Now think, how many UK based games companies there are. Split thier vacancies between those tens of thousands of graduates.

Flooded market.

You will not, by any stretch of the imagination recieve the job you have in mind. The majority of jobs now, are for small fry devlopers designing contracted "package" games. How does p[utting together a re-hash of solitaire sound to you?

As for the view that many dreamers take, it is NOT possible in any way shape or form to found a firm, or indie program and make a decent living out of it. I have both spent time as part of a team 2 years back, on an MMO named Haven. I also moderate on a forum populated by an established indie company. Dark Horizons:Lore anyone?

Your degree is mickey mouse. Unfortunately, most people don't realise it until they get out into the real world. There's a lot of people here, myself included, whop have made the mistakes and know this to be true.

Pantho
03-07-06, 18:58
I never said you wasnt going to uni, i said your not currently Studying at Uni, which was true.... And i dont tihnk i posted personal info, I didnt mention ur name. Or your exact college did i.....

And Yea its hard to take Syntax Serisously.

Oh msg from the guys : "apparently that stunts your growth"(What does?)

"Got 5? hmm no.. just 4" "gimmi 5" (wtf is That one about)

and oh.. "roll roll roll roll roll roll bang head" (Oh no, i fell once and hit my head.... Well done)

Ryen
03-07-06, 19:56
really.. and you actually belive that?

hrm intresting view of the world.. lol

I do because I was in your position. For about four years I wanted to go to a game development college, but after doing the research, I found that everyone of them (minus digipen) is a load of shit. So good luck with your life, enjoy the burger flipping. If I were you, I would drop out right the fuck now and save up whatever cash you have. Hopefully it's not too late for you to get a good education at a decent school.

I hate seeing people actually fall for this shit though, since it's a waste of a good mind. Why not get a degree in something worthwhile, like engineering, architechural studies, or medical? My friend is going into chemical engineering and I'm going into computer engineer. Another one of my friends plans to try to get into politics. Two friends of mine are pretty worthless to humankind. One plans to become a manga artist (and has no artistic talent and is creatively challenged) while another is going to Full Sail for, guess what, a game design degree. The two of them are also dating, if that counts for anything.

If you actually did research into it before going into such a horrible school, you might have saved yourself a few thousand dollars. Again, drop the fuck out NOW and hope that your life still has a chance.

Edit: By the way, your mysql code is broken for your site. Good luck in any programming degree you might get.

Syntax-Error
04-07-06, 00:55
i hate to reign on your parade here. but i know several games programmers. the course ive just finished was setup in co-op with several games development houses and large companys including sony and microsoft.

Also the guy who orginally setup the course is an ex games programmer. OH and the guy running the games programming course used to be head of personel for a large game company. and his comment was roughly "You have no idea how many people come through the door without any qualification and expect me to give them a job over someone with one"

So sorry if you dont actually have a clue.. but well thats life.

Ryen
04-07-06, 01:34
i hate to reign on your parade here. but i know several games programmers. the course ive just finished was setup in co-op with several games development houses and large companys including sony and microsoft.

Also the guy who orginally setup the course is an ex games programmer. OH and the guy running the games programming course used to be head of personel for a large game company. and his comment was roughly "You have no idea how many people come through the door without any qualification and expect me to give them a job over someone with one"

So sorry if you dont actually have a clue.. but well thats life.

Prove it.

As for some questions, what game development studio does the program work with? Also, sony and microsoft aren't really known for their quality titles, although they are known for some other things, games aren't their strongpoint.

Syntax-Error
04-07-06, 03:48
hrm lets see. Microsoft.. X-box. Sony.. oh i dunno maybe one of there many popular mmorpg's

also.. why the hell should i prove it lol?

Pantho
04-07-06, 05:06
hrm lets see. Microsoft.. X-box. Sony.. oh i dunno maybe one of there many popular mmorpg's

also.. why the hell should i prove it lol?

Because your the one trying to put a point across

Because your the one arguing it

Want more reasons.

(Oh and the good luck burger Flipping, Nice guess at where he works)

Pantho
04-07-06, 05:07
hrm lets see. Microsoft.. X-box. Sony.. oh i dunno maybe one of there many popular mmorpg's

also.. why the hell should i prove it lol?

Not to big on the MMO Market tbh but didnt Sony buy most of the MMO's It currently runs?

(Soz for double post , -edit)

Syntax-Error
04-07-06, 14:36
Sam, since you clearly have no idea what your talking about please keep that overlarge mouth of yours closed. im not trying to put over any point im just giving my side i dont really care if you belive me or not. thats your problem really not mine.

And for someone who has failed every course you have tried. you cant talk about work now can you.

Pantho
04-07-06, 15:42
I failed one year, due to being lazy.... In anyway how is that every course....

Also, you are trying to prove yourself right by replying to everypost and arguing,

and you are trying to put a point across, the point of Game design courses being helpfull, Where other people are putting the point across of them not being helpfull to a good career.

-edit , Project 117 is still offline

silent000
04-07-06, 16:54
yes! and syntax shut up lol, thats about all i cud think of saying

Dogface
04-07-06, 17:12
Syntax [edit - not a good idea :p ] you're going too personal.

Syntax-Error
04-07-06, 17:23
lol ok sure. bored of this now. and you baseless arguments. the matter of fact is i know exactly what im doing. and people like Pantho are only here to cause problems. what exactly was the point of his first post? oh yea.. to try and berate me. most people call that trolling and then he has the audacity to whine on the techhaven about the moderators on here.

He is infact the perfect member of the NC forum community. :rolleyes:

silent000
04-07-06, 17:28
neocron wud be nufing without teh pantho!

blackpheonix
04-07-06, 17:29
what pantho says or do on another forum is totally irrelevant here.

THREAD CLOSED

damn, nidhogg give me mod powers <3 lol :angel:

[edit] pantho is a very helpfull person so u obviously dont know him that well :)

Pantho
04-07-06, 17:32
Soz Syn, just gone through my recent posts on TH, (Which btw are a seperate forum ,and you shouldnt be mentioning them here imo) . I cant recall saying anything bad about mods on there. Mighta been pissed at Nid for not unbanning me for a month, but probly not nids fault....

Unless you mean the other issue's... Which ive not hidden any of my feelings for that cert mod (Dev not Mod). And There are VERY well document'd reasons for this. try reading them up.

-edit , Thx for the Ego boost silent/Black

blackpheonix
04-07-06, 17:34
oh newbe5 im sorry someone hi jacked ur thread plz forgive us 90% of the neocron population are ok just the odd 1 or 2 :)

[edit] lol np pantho :P

Pantho
04-07-06, 17:41
OK, I've read through a few on the "I'm thinking of coming abck, what's changed?" threads and no-one seemed to really bring this up that I could see, so I'm giong to break the ice...

Have they finally fixed the goddamn gfx engine? You know what I mean... Stuff springing all over the place, monsters having both sets of legs on the same side if their body so you couldn't select them... Various other enormous annoyances and bugs that seemed to stem from a decrepid engine that they never seemed to want to change?

If that abse thing has been changed, then I might think about a comeback, but last I played, they had actually carried bugs over FROM NC1 to NC2 (sequel my ass).

Soo, yea, if anyone could let me know on those things that'd be top.

newbe5

Lets get some On-topic going,

Monster Spawn is fairly good atm, Unless you kill the majority of a spawn in a zone at once, Take Battle Dome for example.

If you kill all the warbots on the WB hill, (East of the GR, First hill with a WB on). It will then spawn either

6 - Warbots
6 - Warbot Titans
6 - Cyberhounds
6 - Spiderbots
6 - errr name, :/ . The Mechs that shoot Laser's, heh
6 - copbots

Not ever had a problem where i cant target a mob, apart from using a Executioner in Chaos caves.. .Takes a second to lock on and that many mobs. have to be quick at firing.

PVP

clip'ing Still sucks ass, Expecially Melee Tanks and APU's/Monks
Health Bounce (My Favourite bug), Although mainly PVM
Shooting some1 and doing 0 dmg (When you hit them client side, but not server side)
APU Hybrids and PE's Are slightly overpowered, People say Hyb's are the most but if you play both well there deadly. a PE with a exec or Xbow against a APU Hyb is a equal match. (Either that or all the APU Hyb's i fight suck...)

That pretty much sums up PVP Bugs/offsets

gstyle40
04-07-06, 17:49
well said pantho

Spermy
05-07-06, 15:24
i hate to reign on your parade here. but i know several games programmers. the course ive just finished was setup in co-op with several games development houses and large companys including sony and microsoft.

WOW! Placement-tastic. Good luck keeping a hold of a spot when you finish. I hear coffee boy jobs are all the rage. The big firms can have anyone they want. Why weould they take you? Not ( for now) to imply ineptitude, but what have you got over someone who has the same degree, but 5/6 more years worth of experience, from when the market wasn't flooded and jobs existed. He is gold dust, you, sadly are not. Even with a 1st you'd be hard pressed to compete with people that have experience.

Also the guy who orginally setup the course is an ex games programmer.

Ex.

OH and the guy running the games programming course used to be head of personel for a large game company.

Used to be. And what the hell do HR staff have to do with your degree in the slightest? They juggle employee accounts. Not DirectX figures.

and his comment was roughly "You have no idea how many people come through the door without any qualification and expect me to give them a job over someone with one"

Yeah. The point your missing is he said that everyone expects a job off him. of what relevance is that? There is a difference between expectancy and employment.

So sorry if you dont actually have a clue.. but well thats life.

Sorry guys, unable to make a relevant post at this juncture. Too busy trying to formulate a method of getting this clue I have here, into syntaxes brain.

You've been told, that's all I can say. As for instant success, get a grip man.

Almost any computing degree out there these days will never end with you getting the job you want. Life sucks. Stupid people suck more, and ignorant people suck the most.

Your points are baseless.

I'll rewrite the advice I gave. Drop out, and change courses. Don't rack upa 12 grand (minimum) debt for a degree that would be more useful if it was printed on bog roll.