[OOC] Legal Jetpack thread.

[Heavyporker]

Jetpacks is a topic dear to me.

Not sure exactly why the other thread got closed, but we better raise the level of this one if we're going to continue with the topic.

I'm sure jetpacks are commerically available, but they're really expensive. The rocketman website that was linked to in the last one was by an independent guy, I think.


Here's a few links to get acquainted with.


http://travel.howstuffworks.com/personal-jetpack.htm
http://www.rocketman.org/videogallery.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_pack

If I read things rightly, the rocketman's jetpack was powered by a catalytic reaction by silver with peroxide. Why peroxide?

Why haven't there been more research into a jet / rocket and fuel in backpack form? Wouldn't that give more thrust and longer flight times?


Does anyone seriously expect that jetpacks will come into reach of Joe Everyman in real life anytime soon? After all, these things ACTUALLY GOT MADE, and they've been SHOWN countless times to work. The rest is just engineering, right?

[cRazy-]

Its a good concept but too early in development stages for it to be braught anywhere near commercialisation.

I can see the main problem:

Flying pilot + jetpack malfunction = dead pilot

[Heavyporker]

How is that any different from any other form of flight?

flying pilot + jet plane malfunction = dead pilot
flying pilot + helicopter malfunction = dead pilot
flying pliot + space shuttle malfunction = dead pilot
flying pilot + VTOL malfunction = dead pilot
flying pilot + parachute malfunction = dead pilot


FFS. Risk of death doesn't STOP the flight going ahead. All people can do is *reduce* the likelihood of getting killed from malfunctions and pilot errors.

[Dribble Joy]

Peroxide for a variety of reasons:

Price. Peroixide is relatively easy to make, and thus much cheaper than the other solutions.

Saftey. If you want to strap a tank of kerosine to your back and have to wear specialist firefighting clothing, while scorching anything you fly over, be my guest.

Silver catalyses the reaction H2O2 --> Water + O2. The gases produced propel the jetpack in the same way as a regular rocket, execept the temperature of the oxygen and steam is far lower. peroxide is also generally far less dangerous than rocket fuel.

As to why they are not popular, even if they were cheap, is the saftey aspect, you have little real control if anything goes wrong, with the consequences being much higher in general than cars.

[cRazy-]

How is that any different from any other form of flight?

jet plane malfunction = Eject seat and parachute
helicopter malfunction = Parachute
space shuttle malfunction = Nothing really, the recent space shuttle disasters have proven it
VTOL malfunction = Eject seat and parachute
parachute malfunction = Reserve chute


FFS. Risk of death doesn't STOP the flight going ahead. All people can do is *reduce* the likelihood of getting killed from malfunctions and pilot errors.

Its reducing the likelihood and providing suitable backups of safety, when it comes to something like a jetback its hard to provide a backup safety point, plus It's such a volitile reaction in such a small suit so close to the pilot, which is always a hazardous point.

[Dribble Joy]

You want everyone who owns a jetpack to go through the same level of training as an airline/militarey pilot?

Besides a plane and helicopter have many built-in saftey systems. Loose power of the engines in a plane or heli and you don't die.

[Glok]

Rocketman:
The Rocketbelt was originally created by Bell Aerospace for the military in the 1950's.If the military hasn't found a use for the thing in 50-odd years now, that's probably why we aren't seeing them everywhere.

[yavimaya]

Does anyone seriously expect that jetpacks will come into reach of Joe Everyman in real life anytime soon? After all, these things ACTUALLY GOT MADE, and they've been SHOWN countless times to work. The rest is just engineering, right?



Its a good concept but too early in development stages for it to be braught anywhere near commercialisation.
I can see the main problem:

Flying pilot + jetpack malfunction = dead pilot


HP - They are within reach of joe everyman, they just have to build thier own. Yep, they have been around almost as long as the wheel, i have seen videos from the 20's and 30's when tests were done, not too successful, but not alot different from todays "rocketman".
I personally beleive that there has to be a simple and effective, even if not elegant way of controlling them, however it hasnt really been found. Basically as Crazy says, unfortunetaly the malfunction is almost iminent, unless you are experienced, so most people would die.

Crazy- - I think we all know that it hasnt got to do with "stage of development", they have been around as i said before, almost as long as the wheel.... Im pretty sure that if you look it up, it would be illegal in most countires to have/sell them, and if not specifically, as meantioned before the laws would be on the safety aspects these days.
Otherwise I dont see why there wouldt be atleast one company in the world making them for the crazy rich people that dont mind dying....

[Dribble Joy]

I personally beleive that there has to be a simple and effective, even if not elegant way of controlling them, however it hasnt really been found. Basically as Crazy says, unfortunetaly the malfunction is almost iminent, unless you are experienced, so most people would die.
The problem is that all you have to work with is air. No tarmac, no concrete, and no roads. Moving air and using it to control your movements requires not only daft amounts of power (a cubic metre of air weighs about 1.2 kilos, less if it's moving fast or at altitude, you have to shift a lot of it quickly for a momentum reaction of sufficient size), but it's generally slow and cumbersome in any situation other than with fixed wing craft.
Hover craft of almost any type are disgustingly inefficient, which is probably the main reason they have not taken off (hardeehar) in areas where cost 'isn't an issue'.

[RogerRamjet]

How is that any different from any other form of flight?

flying pilot + jet plane malfunction = dead pilot
flying pilot + helicopter malfunction = dead pilot
flying pliot + space shuttle malfunction = dead pilot
flying pilot + VTOL malfunction = dead pilot
flying pilot + parachute malfunction = dead pilot


FFS. Risk of death doesn't STOP the flight going ahead. All people can do is *reduce* the likelihood of getting killed from malfunctions and pilot errors.

What if Captain Scarlet is the pilot? Problem solved tbh.

[NAPPER]

the guy from thunderbirds pwns Captain Scarlet then the Problem solved tbh

[Pantho]

Rocketman:If the military hasn't found a use for the thing in 50-odd years now, that's probably why we aren't seeing them everywhere.

Not true, they looked and believe used once or twice, a pure Gas propelled one,

Not sure on the specifics but i believe it was a kinda Exertion of gas at a high speed, propelling a object/human vertically for 2-3 minutes. They where expermenting the use to scall clifes in amazing speeds.

For isntance, rescue mission, Scall cliffs suprise attack, reach target, do the little objective thing. Parachute down.

[cRazy-]

Not sure on the specifics but i believe it was a kinda Exertion of gas at a high speed

Thats pretty much the fairly obvious basics of thrust propulsion Pantho.

[Heavyporker]

He probably meant using propane or natural gas (methane).

It does sound reasonable... and the 2 to 3 minutes flight time sounds a WHOLE LOT better than the 30 seconds from the peroxide jetpack.

[RusSki]

helicopter malfunction = Parachute

When did ppl start parachuting out of control helicopters?

[cRazy-]

When did ppl start parachuting from out of control helicopters?

I was just guessing, unless theres some other sort of safety invention to save you if you're sitting in a Helicopter plumetting towards earth.


Edit: Taking those Rotor Blades into consideration there is probably fuck all you can do to save yourself.

[Lodar]

I was just guessing, unless theres some other sort of safety invention to save you if you're sitting in a Helicopter plumetting towards earth.


Edit: Taking those Rotor Blades into consideration there is probably fuck all you can do to save yourself.

The helicopter in the film GoldenEye had an ejector seat didn't it? Of course thats film but I imagine there has to be some kind of ejection mechanism in the pilots seat at least (I would imagine it ejects at at an angle to avoid contact with the blades).

[fschepper]

The helicopter in the film GoldenEye had an ejector seat didn't it? Of course thats film but I imagine there has to be some kind of ejection mechanism in the pilots seat at least (I would imagine it ejects at at an angle to avoid contact with the blades).


The Kamov Ka-50 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamov_Ka-50) was the first helicopter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter) to be fitted with an ejection seat. The system is very similar to that of a conventional fixed-wing aircraft; the main rotor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotor) is equipped with explosive bolts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosive_bolt) and is designed to disintegrate moments before the seat rocket is fired.
- Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ejector_seat)

[blackpheonix]

The helicopter in the film GoldenEye had an ejector seat didn't it? Of course thats film but I imagine there has to be some kind of ejection mechanism in the pilots seat at least (I would imagine it ejects at at an angle to avoid contact with the blades).

following that idea teh blade could have an eject mech wher they pop off then teh seat ejects wouldnt liek to be standing underneath teh blades tho :p

[Tratos]

The helicopter in the film GoldenEye had an ejector seat didn't it? Of course thats film but I imagine there has to be some kind of ejection mechanism in the pilots seat at least (I would imagine it ejects at at an angle to avoid contact with the blades).
Hmmm.... would be kinda messy doing live trial and error testing on that :p

[Heavyporker]

wait, wait...

the MAIN ROTOR disintegrates before the seat ejects?

So does that mean shards (or the huge blades) goes flying everywhere?

Wonderful idea... keep the pilot alive but kill everything on the ground.

[Glok]

Helicopters with ejection seats eh? Not necessary. :p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autorotation

[RogerRamjet]

wait, wait...

the MAIN ROTOR disintegrates before the seat ejects?

So does that mean shards (or the huge blades) goes flying everywhere?

Wonderful idea... keep the pilot alive but kill everything on the ground.

The blades come away from the engine bit thing, intact.