Stealth suggestion

[cRazy-]

First:

Make stealth clouds have a hitbox so they are targetable, the stealth tool is supposed to be used for STEALTH, not invincibility and invisibility. So someone can use the stealth to bypass an enemy, or make an escape from a hiding position without being seen, if they are seen (from being visible then dissapearing into hiding), then they are targetable, just how being stealthing and silent in real life works. If this pisses to many people off, make this tool and remove stealth 1, 2 and 3 and just have the PE's type of stealth available to everyone, maybe reduce it a few seconds (just a suggestion).

Second:

Make a tool when removes you from local, it can be activated when standing still and it remains on for 1, 2 or 3 minutes. Now you can crawl and remain off the local list, but as soon as you walk or run more then a few feet you pop onto the local list and it takes a few seconds to re-activate.

With these two combinations you cant use them as an advantage in combat, but you can use them so someone can have a viable reconnaissance role.

Tbh I'm not sure if I even would want KK to use this ideas, rather use them myself >.>

[james_finn]

nice idea, but I wouldnt allow everyone to use stealth, I thought the game was trying to move away from the "Everyone can use everything else" and make it more specialised...

Anyway like the idea about the hit box when stealthed, but maybe make it so that you have to look at the person for longer than a second for the hitbox to appear, as otherwise people will just sweep around the area to get the target, at least this way there needs to be some skill!

Delphi

[cRazy-]

It would only really be a PE/spy tool, maybe make it Spy only (too fit in with the new scheme of gadgets for spies).

Now my point about the stealth is that people wont be looking for you if they dont know you are there, they aint supposed to, if you are stealthing around you are trying to remain secret. Just like real life, if you remain secret they wont be trying to find you, if they do find you, you get shot. With this tool, if you use it right (maybe as an extra idea the cloud could be made much more transparent so you are unable to see them unless you're really searching)and combine it with use of actual stealth and the other tool, enemies shouldnt even know you are watching them, perfect opportunity to do some recon.

Splinter Cell doesnt infiltrate and do missions while crawling around and dodging bullets, he does it secretly, the concept of stealth.

Plus I might add, I wasnt saying this should replace stealth, it should just be an additional tool (or two tools if you count the other idea).

[Apocalypsox]

crazy just likes fucking me up. bad. your idea gets a .0002 out of 10. targetable stealth clouds...psshh!!

[Necpock]

I dont like that dude, it means stealth is making your player into a different state without the use of weps. Its not really what normaly you would expect form any stealth device...

Barrels, Judge, FL and CS FTW

[krynstone]

1.Stealthing in safe zones
2.Contrary to what I said before in my last stealth thead..NO STEALTHED hacking...i see it's definitely too hairy
3.No bounding boxes on people at all. (still hit boxes...just no POP UP here I am boxes)
4.Hittable stealthing
5.Weapons can still reticle on people...but they wont really notice unless they are actively looking because there isn't a bright res box going LOOK THERE when they pass over you.

whatcha think?

Link to my old post http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=133601 ...I've changed my mind on the hacking while stealthed...I think it is a bad idea

[Necpock]

Yes, most defiantly stealthing in safezones should be made available, but anything else should stay the same.

[Sylow]

1.Stealthing in safe zones
2.Contrary to what I said before in my last stealth thead..NO STEALTHED hacking...i see it's definitely too hairy
3.No bounding boxes on people at all. (still hit boxes...just no POP UP here I am boxes)
4.Hittable stealthing
5.Weapons can still reticle on people...but they wont really notice unless they are actively looking because there isn't a bright res box going LOOK THERE when they pass over you.

Fully acceptable in my eyes, only has one small problem: even if there is no hitbox, you'll have the circle around the crosshair pop up and focus in when moving over a stealthed target. (That's the mechanism i personall use when hiding in the grass and trying to hit a distant target. )

Deactivating the boxes is only half of the rent but unless you make your crosshair lock in "secretly", which also is not really logical, i see no fix here.

[krynstone]

yeah....dont know what to do there:)...alredy thought of that hence #5....but theres only so much you can do:)...

You could make the gun shoot blindly but it fires in random directions...not the direction your facing...In other words it has to reticle on your target.

That effect has got to stay if they want to keep the RPG aspect otherwise there's no reason for R-C or any other weapon skill.

So it looks like your stuck with reticling even if we get rid of bounding boxes

[Sylow]

That effect has got to stay if they want to keep the RPG aspect otherwise there's no reason for R-C or any other weapon skill.


Hmm, my suggestion would look like this:

1. the skills still increase damage.
2. the skills still allow to use the better weapons, so again, damage.
3. the skills generally decrease spread.

This would mean, your circle in the future would only determine how bad your spread due to your stance and movement ist. (If you run, it gets big, if you stand, it's smaller, if you crouch, it's tiny. When stopping from running, it would shrink to the new appropriate size, just like it does now.)

I actually saw a system like that in use in a Half-Life Mod called "Firearms". It had skills, among those you were able to choose marksmanship. If you implement something like that, you could drop the "locking in" on the target and rather use a hit-scan system. You aim your crosshair, you fire. Your skill determines if you are right on target or if you have some spread... and if the spread is too big, you simply miss. (A great advantage for a sniper for example. You sit and wait so your circle already is small. You pull the crosshair on the target and fire right away, no need to still wait some seconds till you got your "lock". )

Though, i consider this quite a theoretical suggestion. I saw it working very well in the mentioned FPS, but i assume that it would not be received well in this game. The change would be too fundamental to be accepted by the community.

Edit: additionally, except the problem of acceptance i see another issue. Automatic fire currently is implemented as "one shot, which impacts several times". The client displays a salvo, but codewhise it seems to be one shot only. My suggestion would probably lead to higher bandwidth useage and to higher ressource demand on the server, thus it would negatively affect the netcode. (Depending on how NCs netcode actually is made, this problem could be easily solved or even nonexistant. It also could be very severe, nobody except the developers can judge that... )

[Archy]

Tbh I'm not sure if I even would want KK to use this ideas, rather use them myself >.>

Alleluia

[Lucid Dream]

So, the idea is, essentially, nerf stealth?
No sir, I don't like it.

[solid-rock]

Id say either remove or nerf the PE stealth but leave the spy one alone. The spy's need that escape route cus of theyr relative squishyness.

[Dogface]

PEs should have stealth. Some PEs need stealth. Take a look at spies, how long does it take them to prepare for combat? A few drugs - perhaps 3, maybe a spy buff, a prime, shelter, deflector, combat booster (maybe to even USE their weapon).

Now look at what most PEs have to do. Oh look, it's the same.

Monks and Tanks do not need as much preparation as PEs, (nevermind spies, of course they're keeping stealth) so I think it would be a bad move to remove PE stealth.

Once they're balanced, they will need it even more (some of them), because they won't have slashers or executioners to make up the time/damage that's lost/not done from buffing.

[Kierz]

I dont like that dude, it means stealth is making your player into a different state without the use of weps. Its not really what normaly you would expect form any stealth device...

Barrels, Judge, FL and CS FTWso... melee's being the only one's that can't hurt them... (yes I know that's how it is now)

[cRazy-]

Everyones missed the entire point that I said they would be ADDITIONAL tools, not replace stealth and therefore stealth and PE's and Spies having stealth wouldn't change.

[Faid]

:lol: I'm surprised this hasnt turned into a "nerf monks" thread yet :p
Interesting idea though, maybe make it to where if you happen to find the stealther and shoot him the resulting impact of your weapon knocks him out of stealth, but you'd have to get a good solid hit on him. But also have the stealther be able to draw, aim, and fire his weapon while stealthed, but the second he fires his weapon he drops out of stealth.

[unreal]

Well considering you just brought that up Faid, it won't belong before it really is one. Congratulations.

[Dogface]

Yeah we should like, nerf monks or something today..

[yuuki]

how about making a stealthtool that changes the runners appearance/name and faction tag, instead of turning him into a cloud, would be usable for recon, but not as an escape device during combat. could also be used to replace the pe stealth, so one still can prepare for combat, but can't use the hit and run tactics as much as a spy. :D

[Dribble Joy]

The idea that under stealth you should remain targetable, is a good one. Other than adding a timer before the stealth effect takes place (with the inability to use items during the countdown too), it's the only idea that would really make stealth less the LE switch, and more the espionage tool it was intended to be.

[Scanner Darkly]

Barrels, Judge, FL and CS FTW

I thought Judge was the only one of the plasma weapons that DIDNT do damage to stealthed runners. We even tested it quite a bit - but that was pre evo 2.1, so maybe it's been fixed? :confused:

I think if you could achieve reticle lock on a stealth player, it should be MUCH slower than regular reticle closing speed. Since monks have no reticle, they would be prevented from targetting stealthed players at all. Fair? :p

[Apocalypsox]

my judge PE owns stealthers....