View Full Version : Second underground exit
I mentioned in a different thread the idea of having a second underground exit at all OP's to help stop with the problem of any defenders arriving to 'remove' the attacking force from being very nearly wiped out by holy barrels as soon as they leave the underground.
The second underground exit could be somewhere else in the sector not inside the walls of the OP, this would mean that an attacking force could not blast as heavily as they do on both underground entrances, giving any defenders half a chance to make a good defence.
Apologies for fetching this up again but i felt the point had been overlooked in became quite a heated thread.
I would value your oppinions as to this idea greatly.
Nellus
All they'd do then is have 2 teams blasting away at both entrances. How many monks does it take to chain barrel an op entrance? Not too many I think.
I think it would be a far better idea to re-open all GRs to everyone.
(The closing of GRs is something I feel always had a negative effect on op wars).
Athon
Just remove underground GR's. Problem solved.
Before the underground GR and the whole "Lock GR's" thing, the attackers would camp the GR in the zone, and that was fine, but was pre-empted by the whole "GR lockdown".
It would be nice if the GR's were again free for everyone, but even then, we would be idiots to GR to the zone of the OP that was being attacked.
It would be nice to have the GR Lockdown removed, but what needs to go away completely are the UG GR's.
Just remove underground GR's. Problem solved.
Before the underground GR and the whole "Lock GR's" thing, the attackers would camp the GR in the zone, and that was fine, but was pre-empted by the whole "GR lockdown".
It would be nice if the GR's were again free for everyone, but even then, we would be idiots to GR to the zone of the OP that was being attacked.
It would be nice to have the GR Lockdown removed, but what needs to go away completely are the UG GR's.
Back in NC1 when OP's were attacked or defended, clans didn't just GR into the same zone as the battle there were tactics used as in what zone to GR into then wait for SI then everyone would buff up and run to where the battle was this is what made OP battle fun back then, the lock down of GR's the No SI for defending clans and the underground GR's have more or less made OP wars not that fun as before.
a second underground exit at all OP's to help stop with the problem of any defenders arriving to 'remove' the attacking force from being very nearly wiped out by holy barrels as soon as they leave the underground.
The second underground exit could be somewhere else in the sector not inside the walls of the OP, this would mean that an attacking force could not blast as heavily as they do on both underground entrances, giving any defenders half a chance to make a good defence.
Already got one of these; it's called a GR. Hack the UG GR, spawn in the outpost sector in hacknet, run down to the bottom and pop outta the GR outside with no SI and still fully buffed from the ppu. Done it myself a few times.
I mentioned in a different thread the idea of having a second underground exit at all OP's to help stop with the problem of any defenders arriving to 'remove' the attacking force from being very nearly wiped out by holy barrels as soon as they leave the underground.
The second underground exit could be somewhere else in the sector not inside the walls of the OP, this would mean that an attacking force could not blast as heavily as they do on both underground entrances, giving any defenders half a chance to make a good defence.
Apologies for fetching this up again but i felt the point had been overlooked in became quite a heated thread.
I would value your oppinions as to this idea greatly.
Nellus
i was in that last thread doing some flaming btw, good times, good times ;)
yea i like this idea alot, put another exit in the UG that leads to another part of the zone. It doesnt have to be close to the OP either, this way the attacking force may have to split their forces.
Attackers may not want to split their forces and just AoE the OP UG so defenders can exit through the other UG.
As for the second exit, in order to use it you can make it hackable for example. So you would have to be able to hack to use it, this way you could have two forces, one comming from outside and the other zoneing up from the UGin the OP.
Or the exit could lead to a long tunnel or something so you have to run through it to the exit (something like those DoY tunnels) gives it a secret exit feeling.
Either way i like the second exit idea, would help as far as i can see when it comes to AoE'n the UG from all those guys that think it takes skill to do it :wtf:, but think that turrets in the OP are skillless even tho it stops AoE'n.
Already got one of these; it's called a GR. Hack the UG GR, spawn in the outpost sector in hacknet, run down to the bottom and pop outta the GR outside with no SI and still fully buffed from the ppu. Done it myself a few times.
I do this from time to time as well but the problem with this is sometimes the GR is too close to the OP, so its not as big of a supprise when u get into the OP cause they already saw you at the GR.
Just remove underground GR's. Problem solved.
Before the underground GR and the whole "Lock GR's" thing, the attackers would camp the GR in the zone, and that was fine, but was pre-empted by the whole "GR lockdown".
It would be nice if the GR's were again free for everyone, but even then, we would be idiots to GR to the zone of the OP that was being attacked.
It would be nice to have the GR Lockdown removed, but what needs to go away completely are the UG GR's.
Would be amazing !! :)
Locking GRs then adding GRs in the UG (and fucking over hybrids) ruined NC :)
But thats a totally different subject....
ADding a 2nd UG would split ther attackers up or add a place to escape from safely.
*****
Wasnt the idea of the UG gr exit so that defenders had a chance to save their outpost? Thats why you can come through with no si.
When my clan last held an OP some months back now we were all down the DOY tunnels levelling when the attack warning came so we just legged it as fast as we could. by the time we got to a GR the second layer was down. So when we got to the otherside we didnt have long to stop the attack. But if we had had to wait for si to wear off we wouldnt have made it out of the UG before they had finished the hack. (we lost the op anyway it was us 4 against about 15 thanks R2K :p )
All they'd do then is have 2 teams blasting away at both entrances. How many monks does it take to chain barrel an op entrance? Not too many I think.
But the reason behind a second UG exit elswhere in the zone is so that you have 2 choices to exit any attacking force has to split their troops to cover both areas if they want to cover both. Yes they will still be barreling but there may not be as many barrels (if they have split the force)
But when GRs were open you had like 4 options to counter-attack from - and indeed frequently it'd end up with everyone coming back to different locations and getting there by various means (vehicle users would obviously head straight to the nearest vehicle depot to get a new vehicle and others would generally rep-in to the nearest GRs and then meet up from there). And the enemy would have generally no idea where you'd be coming from.
If you have an underground exit, even if the enemy decides not to split their forces in 2, then they still know the general direction of the 2nd underground exit.
And I'm sorry but I just don't buy that an op team won't split their forces in 2, unless their really small (in which case they're probably trying to "ninja" the op anyway).
Bring back restrionless GRs.
Athon
I agree with you that an attacking force will split there group in 2 to cover both UG's but what this means is that there will be less barrels/attacks at each one giving the guys coming out more of a chance to survive and defend their OP. Thats all i was trying to get at.
i think they should make so you can ether gr to the gr upstairs at the op or gr to the ug that would be abit better i think
And I'm sorry but I just don't buy that an op team won't split their forces in 2, unless their really small (in which case they're probably trying to "ninja" the op anyway).
Athon
If they do decide to split,(lets say they have a 14 man/woman force, 7 in the OP 7 at 2nd exit) and the defenders have 12-15 themselves it would be easier for the defenders to all zone outa one exit and fight 7 people that are aoe'n than 15 that are aoe'n.
most things are better then the current op system
tbh you need athor exit from the ug cos the barreling will kill a lot of peeps and thats no fun if you want a fight
I agree with you that an attacking force will split there group in 2 to cover both UG's but what this means is that there will be less barrels/attacks at each one giving the guys coming out more of a chance to survive and defend their OP. Thats all i was trying to get at.
But it'd only be marginally better - particularly to the weaker (defense-wise) classes (I'm mainly thinking spies here). You're still going to take a lot of damage coming up - which is still going to give the attackers a massive advantage.
IMO a second underground would be the equivalent of a nasty dirty hack to solve the problem - a bug fix that introduces another bug that's almost as bad would be a good simile.
I (and it seems I'm not the only one) maintain that the closing of GRs was one of the biggest killers of fun op wars.
Athon
yes but you would have more of a chance of living out of the barrels if the the 2 exits
and it would make it a lot more better for clans that are defending agaist some op teams
yes but you would have more of a chance of living out of the barrels if the the 2 exits
and it would make it a lot more better for clans that are defending agaist some op teams
And re-opening the GRs wouldn't help how?
Athon
you know reopening the grs you mean when you get there will you have si if so whats the piont
or have a a window where you could ether gr to the ug or the top?????
you know reopening the grs you mean when you get there will you have si if so whats the piont
The SI rules should remain unchanged from what they were when the GRs were closed IMO. The SI generally bleeds off in the run to the nearest op.
The point is that with all GRs open, an op team, even if it was composed of a number of different clans and factions, could quickly and easily regroup at another nearby op, hike it back to the op they're defending and counter-attack.
I'm not sure if I can put into words exactly why things were better when GRs were all open - there's probably a number of factors that came together. I just know that I've played it both ways now, and having all GRs open caused op wars to be a lot more fun.
Regarding the ability to GR to the underground or to the top - how would this make things better? You're still going to get barralled to hell at either the GR or the underground.
Napper: Could I advise you try and add some puntuation to your posts. It can be extremely hard to make out what someone's saying when it's a single long sentence.
Athon
RogerRamjet
08-04-06, 15:48
Theres already 1 too many Underground exits in OPs.
Everyone says "if you are getting AOEed come from elsewhere" but this is useless. I've actually lost an op in the time it took me to relog to my combat char and get past synch bugs. YOu would certainly have lost an op in less time than it takes to GR elsewhere and wait off SI, nevermind actually getting to your op to defend.
THe advantage in op warring SHOULD be the defenders (not a big one, but the attackers have the signifcant advantage of derteming where and when the fight is). At the moment everything in op warring is to the attackers advantage.
THe advantage in op warring SHOULD be the defenders (not a big one, but the attackers have the signifcant advantage of derteming where and when the fight is). At the moment everything in op warring is to the attackers advantage.
for effect. agreed.
THe advantage in op warring SHOULD be the defenders (not a big one, but the attackers have the signifcant advantage of derteming where and when the fight is). At the moment everything in op warring is to the attackers advantage.
ye thats a very good point
Everyone says "if you are getting AOEed come from elsewhere" but this is useless. I've actually lost an op in the time it took me to relog to my combat char and get past synch bugs. YOu would certainly have lost an op in less time than it takes to GR elsewhere and wait off SI, nevermind actually getting to your op to defend.
THe advantage in op warring SHOULD be the defenders (not a big one, but the attackers have the signifcant advantage of derteming where and when the fight is). At the moment everything in op warring is to the attackers advantage.
I agree with that.
Having thought about it I guess the reason I preferred the old system to the current one was because the attackers didn't have an advantage - the winner was usually the person who gave up first - but IMO op wars were more fun that way.
So what can we do to put the advantage on the defenders side? The problem is that the attackers will always have an advantage because they've gathered their team, chosen the op and set up their defenses before the defenders even know that there's a threat (and turrets aren't particularly much use - especially when they're banned!)
If I remember correctly (and I could easily not be - my memory is terrible), another change that was made that has almost certainly affected op wars is that turrets were reduced in (defensive) strength a lot and have never been restrengthened. While I agree that they shouldn't be relied upon for defense, as far as I remember under the old system, as long as you had several, you atleast had a chance of getting there before or your turrets were destroyed, and thus a chance of getting there while the op was still under your control.
Athon
KK should at least make all the ug entrances flat like Redrock. A simple change like that would make a difference and improve things a lot. I would like to see ug's removed altogether tho but cant see it happening anytime in next 100000 years.
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