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Retro V
02-03-06, 10:30
What skill do you suggest gets raised as a result of decreasing their Constitution cap? (http://forum.neocron.com/showpost.php?p=1957358&postcount=4)Dirus posed this question in another thread. I was going to make a suggestion in that thread, but thought this could use a new line of discussion, if anyone has any thoughts.

So, if KK were to mess around with monk skill levels, let's look at the monk's description. Strong of mind and psychic abilities but weak in body, pretty much right? How weak? Not as weak as the spy? Why not? I've thought for a long time that monks should be weaker than spies. After all, they evolved in caves, supposedly, where the only physical threat is a falling drip of hardwater from stalagtites. Wouldn't the highly dextrous spy have attained at least a little more constitution from all his physical workouts?

Let's say you dropped the monk constitution by 10. That means raising dexterity or strength by the sum of 10 as well. What would they get out of higher dexterity? They run like hell already, so more agility wouldn't really be noticeable. Maybe more scope for repairing or driving, but still not enough to use any decent rifles or pistols. A ppu might abuse drugs enough to wield tl55+ weapons, not a lot you might think, although it might be enough to overpower them.

The alternative is to increase strength by 10. While that would be good for a monk's barely adequate transport capability, it's also possible to decrease the monk's only weakness: force resist. By my calculation, 10 skill levels put into force resist already above 50 would be at least 25 more, not much considering the loss in consitution.

To cap off, the resulting monks' skills would be 100int 30str 35 con 35 dex 100 psi. I see no discernible gains to be had from this change, except a more balanced monk, hopefully. I'm not against monks, I have to add. I have an LE'd apu I use to hunt rares, and I don't find relying on medkits, when ambushed by a respawning spiderbot, to be that much of a problem, even if health was somewhat lower.

Would this be major nerf-batting? Would it alienate 80% of the paying customerbase when they lose their precious wizards? :lol: I don't know, it's just an idea.

xyl_az
02-03-06, 11:19
Theres nothing rthat eally needs to be changed. Check the monk's description, they are supposed to be fragile physically and relies on their psi power only...

Dirus, tell me how the fuck monks are weak and fragile physically? They have the best fucking armor in the game! Its not about their skill levels. They *indeed* have 20 str only.

Remove psi based armor or make it as any other armor - str based (leaving PAs as something individual for every class)

l8m0n
02-03-06, 12:10
belts and PA and the rest n00b armor, with PPU and armor APUs have better con than tanks, and they have 100 :wtf:

Pantho
02-03-06, 12:13
Or make INT Armor for Spy's -

OMG Overpowered Dissie Spy, RUN!

Comie
02-03-06, 13:12
i like it, it would definatly make their class discription true. would make them glass cannons, as it should be.

Agent L
02-03-06, 13:19
(monks)have the best fucking armor in the game! Its not about their skill levels. (...)
Remove psi based armor or make it as any other armor - str based
Cannot agree more.

Retro V
02-03-06, 14:38
Once upon a time, str based was all they could wear. It wasn't enough then, and it won't be enough now, even with the playerbase's evolved understanding. The psi armor came in as a band-aid solution, I think, can't really remember.

I agree it's too much armor now, but reducing monks to kevlar would be overkill.

slith
02-03-06, 14:44
The alternative is to increase strength by 10. While that would be good for a monk's barely adequate transport capability, it's also possible to decrease the monk's only weakness: force resist. By my calculation, 10 skill levels put into force resist already above 50 would be at least 25 more, not much considering the loss in consitution.

I see PPUs... PPUs with flamers and db+para doing insane poisondamage.
tbh, make str armor better or psi armor weaker.

And honestly, why not make the level sum lower than 300?

Retro V
02-03-06, 15:03
There's a reason why each character has the same skill level sum of 300. Don't know what exactly, maybe its to provide a solid template from which to balance each character equally, maybe it's an obsession with hexadecimals routed into middle-aged programmers.

Point is, if it was lowered, we'd have a character that was fundamentally 'weaker' than the rest.

VegaH
02-03-06, 20:35
For the monks, other alternatives could be these :

- Removing Gaya glove so at least it would "force" a sort of reload for the monks with having a smaller PSI mana pool OR:

- Getting the subskill Resist PSI to finally work and making the HL Energy + Lot of PSI Resist damage spell and with the same occasion, the ppus and apus would need to think about investing PSI points into that subskill and so maybe ppus would cap less their spells or at least reduce the PSI mana pool. For other classes....some of their armor could give Resist PSI points...

Finally.....i still believe that a ppu/melee tank can ******** a apu/ppu team anytime with a good para+ DB on the apu :)

Cya people :)

Dribble Joy
02-03-06, 20:43
Dirus, tell me how the fuck monks are weak and fragile physically? They have the best fucking armor in the game! Its not about their skill levels. They *indeed* have 20 str only.

Remove psi based armor or make it as any other armor - str based (leaving PAs as something individual for every class)
Anything ingame currently is irrelevant to any arguement about balance, since it's gonna get a massive overhaul with probably no consideration for what preceded it.

xyl_az
02-03-06, 21:51
Anything ingame currently is irrelevant to any arguement about balance, since it's gonna get a massive overhaul with probably no consideration for what preceded it.

i'm pointing what IS the problem, in terms of balance...

sultana
03-03-06, 09:31
I agree it's too much armor now, but reducing monks to kevlar would be overkill.
Kevlar and no PA (http://neocron.jafc.de/attachment.php?attachmentid=10102)
Almost gives monks an actual weakness, the one main thing that disadvantages them is the loss of points in Psi Power. The resists are still high enough to give them an advantage over every other class, especially with the HAB.

Kevlar with PA (http://neocron.jafc.de/attachment.php?attachmentid=10101)
And the monks really lose nothing at all with this type of setup.

Those were ones I just made up in 5 or so minutes last time this topic was around, I'm sure there's better ways to get more points out of them, Probably a PPR in that second setup would give you more points in CON.

RogerRamjet
03-03-06, 14:44
PPR/moveon/anti gamma foot/FH2, drug for PA3.

Thats what id do.

Get a psi 3 to operate.

Apocalypsox
03-03-06, 17:49
Or make INT Armor for Spy's -

OMG Overpowered Dissie Spy, RUN!

HORRAY! UNNERF WARBOT 4TW!!!!!