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View Full Version : [Brainport] New (I think) idea for constructing



Dogface
02-03-06, 03:15
Please read this post and comment constructively.

Ok, this idea is regarding slots. But it's not a simple request like "increase slot chance tbh".

I'll explain.

I hear slots are almost random but with a small small chance which is based on your actual CST level, (might need some confirmation from the Man Upstairs or someone can dig up the thread explaining slots and stats for CSTing - I cba) but I thought of a potentially better way, in my opinion. So I decided to express it here.

Slot chances can be split into 5 separate chances, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. Every time you CST an item, a very small percentage will be added to the chance of slots of which you made. Example.

I CST a 3 slot item. I gain a very very small % which will increase my chance to get a 3 slot item. Then I make a 0 slot item, then a chance is added to the 0 slot chance, etc etc.

Reasons why I think this is a good idea:

This will give constructors an alternative motive to run around all day constructing items to sell.

This will give a reputation to those people who have truly put in the time and the effort to gain a better chance of good slots than any other average Joe (no pun intended).

It will give them another reason, sort of a competition against other constructors. Since your business will now depend on YOU rather than an almost random chance.

------------ End of that part.

Now. You might say "I'll just sit around making tl3 heals all day so get my slot chances up for a cheap price!". No.

Lower TL items give a much less percentage added to the slot chance, and obviously, rare items and items above say tl99 for example give a higher chance. (I don't believe a tl115 CST should give the MOST chance because this will benefit some weapon users more than others, like a rifle char with SH, HL and Disruptor will in theory have greater slots than other weapon users.)
Possibly this TL/slot differentiation could be changed to all rares will (depending on initial slots) give a better chance of slots regardless of TL. This will even it out against say some melee items (being lowest TL) and high TL rifles.

This will effect PPUs/blessed hybrids and PEs the most. Since they have multiple spells which are not rare which do really require slots, like shelters - TL25 all the way up to Holy, Heals - TL10 (seems Jones items have a higher slot chance anyway, only seems it..) and all the rest of their spells. I don't think this will effect any other class so much that it will make a noticable effect on PvP or PvM.
But I may not have thought of something someone else might. Or I could just be plain wrong.
Of course, the rest of their spells are rare - Holy paracement, APUs Holy Lightning, True Sight etc..

Theres one thing that concerned me the most with this though... How big should the percentage different be between a TL3 item and a TL115 item?
Both chances must be small, but where do we draw the % line as a maximum and a minimum? This idea may inuntentionally make it incredibly hard to get slots on for example a TL3 heal and deflector, which are both rather important to some classes.

This would encourage people to invest some time to level their spy through constructing a little bit more (perhaps boost the XP given, I have no idea how much is given, but I can guess from the amount of people than HN/drone a char then lom to CST.) So by the time they're capped, they already have a nice percentage base for items. (Providing they actually leveled through CST)
This means they will be ready to sell or volunteer their skills to people and they will have a better outcome than someone who in the current system could level by drones/HN and just make a 5 slot item and sell it for 10+mil and be sorted for a short time. With no effort, just an almost random chance.

Of course at the start everyone will have a default % chance, (like the default int, str, con, dex and psi we currently have.) but they can improve this chance with some investment.

One thing you might say, is how will runners know who has and who hasn't level their CST the suggested way and just lie that they have a high CST just for a few jobs (or to go to the extent of hurting peoples play experience)?

Construction rank:

An option can allow runners to set a combat rank, or a construction rank. Explanation:

90/60 - the 90 (just a random number which popped into my head for an example) which replaces the combat rank, will be based on their construction skill combined the average % chance they have for slots. The more chance for a 5 slot item if they have one, will also be implemented into the rank. If someone has a really high chance of getting 5 slots, then this will boost their rank by more than someone with an even bigger chance of getting 1-2 slots (this would be an example of the person who droned to cap them lommed to CST). This idea would clearly show who has the best CST skills. With showing a rank that is clearly distinguishable from a combat rank !
Of course people can opt not to show the CST rank and replace it to their normal combat rank if they wish, but people seeking a CST will need proof that the person is as good as they say they are.

Stop reading here if you've had enough. The rest isn't directly related to this idea, nonetheless read it anyway!

I think I've covered everything I need to. Tried to think of positive and negative aspects long with solutions and reasons on this, please don't disregard it as spam!
If anyone else thinks of a flaw in this idea then I'll try and give some ideas to counter it.
Sorry for the length of the post but I tried to spread it out and stick to the point while adding everything that needed to be added. (Mainly for developer attention, I'm sure (hoping) they won't disregard a good idea because "the post was too long"!) I actually thought this through.
A comment from someone Upstairs (Dirus) as to why this would or wouldn't work would be much appreciated, just so it can be stomped out without causing too much fuss.
And for the love of God please don't hijack this thread into an argument where it'll just get locked and stuffed to the bottom of the last page :p


Thank you for your time.

Dirus
02-03-06, 05:32
Slots are random, the only thing that effects the slot chances are if you can build to the weapons highest quality. Once you hit that point, having more skill isn't a factor anymore.

As for your idea, since the slot chances are random to begin with even if two people put in equal amounts of time it doesn't mean they'd have the same chances, so in that sense it doesn't really reward them equally anyway. While your idea maybe an interesting one, it's one of those ideas that feeds into the whole "you must play atleast X number of hours otherwise we don't like you" trends. Theres an article about this type of thing up on Gamasutra.com atm.

Basically you'd be telling all "casual" players to not bother trying to compete with those who don't have a life outside of the game.

To really reward those who put the time and effort into it, you'd need something that favors more "pure skill" over those who just shove a bunch of chips in their body and sit at an Op to boost their skill or to support it completely.

On the Op and implant note, this really does say "don't worry about investing much in this skill, as the bare minimum investment in points, and unlimited amounts of time is all you require, since over time what you lack in skill will be made up for by random chance"

Edit:
I'm sure (hoping) they won't disregard a good idea because "the post was too long"!)

Even -FN-'s multipost thread I don't consider all that long. You should see what I subject KK to when I hit them with things ;) Most of my write ups and reworks of things are 10+ pages long. Hell, I have one sitting here atm thats only about 45% complete and it's sitting at 15 pages..

Comie
02-03-06, 10:40
As youve stated Dirus, that youve read -FN-'s post and this one, and probably a multitude of other brainport posts (hopefully my own jetpack idea).

Do you ever try to incorperate them into your own idea's or do you move them along to KK and see about implimenting them or are most of them dross and therefore hardly any fall into that catagory?

long winded way of saying "do you take our brainports into consideration?"

or is there a legality there that if you use someones posted idea's they can sting you for cash? would it be better if the idea's came with a disclaimer saying "any idea's stated above can be used for neocron with my consent, i dont not wish for any commission etc..."?

Brammers
02-03-06, 11:44
When I get a new constructor in Phoenix, you can guarantee he will pull a 5 slotter out of nowhere on his first job, when I've been trying to make the same item for hours getting nothing better than 2 slots! This quirk of construction should be better known as Bram's first law of Construction! :p

It's an interesting idea and as a lifelong constructor myself, that would benefit me.

However for the reasons Dirus highlighted, I don't like it. I prefer the chances to be even for constructors who have been here 3 years or 3 days. It gives the player more of an incentive to stay and play the game more when he gets that 5 slotter.

@ Dirus - got a link to that article you are talking about?

Agent L
02-03-06, 13:13
Does your law works with kick and rejoin, Bram ? ;p Or is it more like "you can get a man out of Phoenix, but you can never get Phoenix out of a man". : P

I don't like Dogface's idea, although I have no life and spend my time making runs of 249 Holy Heals...

If proposed mechanics is consecutive rolls, from 5 to 1 slot until one of them succeeds, as some point some guy will reach 100% 5slot chance, making ALL OTHER cstors on server useless.
If you'd cap the chances below 100%, it'll simply make leveling of a ctor matter of building bazilion of something.

If it is proportional chances, making 1 given slotnumber will increase chance of repeating this outcome, which will further increase chance, etc etc, eventually leading for a character to be able to produce only this particular slot number.
As 0 slot are most popular, this will most likely be the case.


PS : I'd like to note that from my experience items have some influence at slotchances too, ie heals are more then twice easier to slot then simmilar lvl shelters or deflectors. This fact kinda blows whole slotchances leveling idea, as it'd be a matter of choosing proper item to level on.

PS2 : I do have a problem beliving Dirus, as I have very low skill as for pro ctor (making it up with dex and int) and I think my slottage isn't as good as others.

Brammers
02-03-06, 14:09
Does your law works with kick and rejoin, Bram ? ;p Or is it more like "you can get a man out of Phoenix, but you can never get Phoenix out of a man". : P


That's a new test for the law, I may try that next time! :p



PS : I'd like to note that from my experience items have some influence at slotchances too, ie heals are more then twice easier to slot then simmilar lvl shelters or deflectors. This fact kinda blows whole slotchances leveling idea, as it'd be a matter of choosing proper item to level on.


Have to agree with this. Myself and a few other constructors have noticed that some items are a pain to slot, while other items are easy. I did think it may be related to the number of parts needed to make an item. The more parts needed, the harder it is to slot.

CMaster
02-03-06, 14:41
That's a new test for the law, I may try that next time! :p



Have to agree with this. Myself and a few other constructors have noticed that some items are a pain to slot, while other items are easy. I did think it may be related to the number of parts needed to make an item. The more parts needed, the harder it is to slot.

Also, tech part itemss have a higher slot chance as we know - but so do former tech items (IE BPed Devourers, BPed HABs) which is interesting. And FINALLY we have an offical statement that more and more CST does not help.

Torg
03-03-06, 01:14
dirus is plainly right. timesinks are not the right way to make a game more fun.

Kame
03-03-06, 05:46
Yes, more and more isnt any good.

Im a fervant beliver in overcaping cstr.

Heavyporker
03-03-06, 07:16
Make minigames out of Construction.

Like maybe "tetris"-style for digital pieces, where you have to mesh code-blocks to create programs.

Or a "pipes" game, where you have to assemble a circuit with required parts ( transistors, wires, cpus, etc) that will lead from power-in to power-out, for weapons, perhaps.

Agent L
04-03-06, 11:24
omfg, that'd be sick, Porker!