View Full Version : [!] The "Lattice" System
Outposts and Alliance Control
Let's set some variables:
Clan A: CityAdmin Clan
Clan B: Tangent Clan
Clan M: CityMercs Clan
Clan Y: Crahn Sect Clan
Clan Z: Twilight Guardian Clan
The "Lattice" System (Thanks Comie ;))
To get this system, you'll have to understand the way the Outposts are linked together via HackNet. Each Uplink is linked to another (or a major hub) and from each Uplink, you can reach several surrounding Outposts. For the most part, HackNet is linear (http://nc.synergyxr.net/files/maps/hacknet.jpg).
- See this map for more HackNet visualization (http://nc.synergyxr.net/files/maps/hacknet_geo.jpg)
So let's start the scenario saying Pro-NC has no OPs. Clan A & B get together to take an OP - they must start at the only OP linked directly into the NC Mainframe: FOSTER Uplink. Together, they take the OP and now they can attempt to attack any Outpost directly linked to it via HackNet. So the Clan A/B team now has the option to attack GRANT, CERES, or CREST. If they can attack and take CREST Uplink, then can then move to the next 'cloud' of Outposts (MCPHERSON, KRUPP, JERIKO). If they can successfully take CREST Uplink then they can move onto the GRAVIS group and so on.
So then let's say the Pro-City Group takes all the OPs in the FOSTER and CREST groups except Jeriko Fortress. Clans Y & Z show up there to defend, and with the + to combat they hold off Clans A & B - so they move to GRAVIS and take that. However, since Jeriko is still under DOY control, they are able to attack CREST Uplink since it's directly linked to JERIKO. Clan Z retakes CREST Uplink and Clan Y attacks Clans A & B at Gravis. Just when Clan Y looks like it's gonna lose, Clan M shows up to help them and they beats Clan A & B.
Over a day of Alliance vs Alliance fighting, NC owns half the map and DOY owns the other half. Now there are battlefronts and the lines of attack can be strategically drawn... plow through the Uplinks and clean up behind the lines? Take and secure each 'group' of OPs as you move? And single-hack annoyances... no longer an issue since you can only hack an OP that your alliance is linked to. Unless the OP is directly connected to an enemy's Outpost, it can't be taken.
In the case of the HackNet bridglinks such as Point Red, Battledome, MB, TH, and DRT, those are not counted in the system. (i.e. you can take NORTHSTAR, then HAWKINS as it's the next Outpost in the line.
This makes Uplinks strategically Important to have. At the moment, the only OPs that are really 'useful' are Factories and Labs. Now Uplinks will be needed and fought over just as much.
Taking things a step further - you could also link the BONUSES of the Outposts - So that if you can take an entire 'group' of OPs linked to an Uplink, you get all their bonuses in all those zones, but if you lose the core Uplink, the bonuses are lost at all the other Outposts. So if you owned the CREST/JERIKO/KRUPP/MCHPHERSON block, at all the OPs you could get +50 Combat, +50 CST (not 100, no stacking), and +50 Hack. Then if you had the GRAVIS/SIMMONS/REDROCK/TYRON group as well, you would get the +50 Combat, +50 CST, +50 Hack AND +50 recycle at any OP in either cluster. I am using +50 assuming they were all owned by Clan A and you are a Clan A member, otherwise, the current bonus rules would apply. Anyone allied to Clan A's faction would get a +25 bonus of those types at those OPs. So what this also does is it encourages a factions ALLIES to get involved in more fights - Clan B should help out Clan A at CREST uplink so that they can retain their bonuses at all the surrounding Outposts.
Thanks Comie for resparking this idea :)
Interesting concept :D
Unless the OP is directly connected to an enemy's Outpost, it can't be taken.
So would this stop allies hacking each others OPs?
http://neocron.jafc.de/images/rating/rating_5.gif
Dribble Joy
06-02-06, 21:17
hmmm...
Not sure, it could be somewhat restrictive if you are looking at OP fights as a whole, rather than NC vs DoY.
Digital-Talios
06-02-06, 21:25
So instead of taking over cycrow directly you would have to take over a list of other ops first i take it...
Personally I think the influence of hacknet on ops should be removed entirely not increased. Although having said that I think the op system as a whole needs a major rework, and I seem to remember hearing that it will get one in the upcoming expansions. The system for taking an op seems ridiculous atm and leads to the same crap of 27 apu's barreling the UG killing the defending team as they sync up. If the defenders do manage to zone up they fight until they are low on health then sync down, heal, rinse and repeat until everyone is thoroughly bored. I agree something needs to be done about op fights but this is not the answer.
HOLY SHIT!!! NO
i hated that thing in planetside and id go insane if nc got it
it maye work better in nc as we have hacknet but...just no, i hate the fact that the battles are so fucking predictable in planetside and i dont think nc would benefit from it.
i enjoy the ability to hack an op far behind enemy lines...
Richard Slade
06-02-06, 21:55
Ya, make HN a playground that isn't involved in that part..
HN 'ops' maybe?
So would this stop allies hacking each others OPs?
I suppose it would - unless you want to let Allies hack Allied OPs, but that kinda nullifies a large portion of the idea. Perhaps a "Transfer Control" Option from the citycomm that would transfer an OP to another clan if you wanted to do so if the ability to hack an OP owned by a friendly faction was disabled...
On that note, CityMercs - what would they do? I guess be able to attack any OPs, starting from MB?
@ Digital-Talios:
Yes - you would need the CAJUN Uplink cluster to get Cycrow.
As for the Outpost Battle Rework - Just redo the Undergrounds so they are not separate zones. You GR into a SAFE GR in the central underground. The Underground area is then a large central room (much like Uplink UGs) with several ramps leading to the "topside". Somewhere, either at the central UG or further up the ramps you have unhackable security doors (such as the ones on apartments), only openable by the owning clan. Remove the zoning bottleneck and the single entrance/exit bottleneck and you'll have yourself some excellent fights I think :)
Digital-Talios
06-02-06, 21:59
Hard enough to get ops as it is I think the uplinks could have abit more usufullness then what they have now but i dont think this is it.
As for the Outpost Battle Rework - Just redo the Undergrounds so they are not separate zones. You GR into a SAFE GR in the central underground. The Underground area is then a large central room (much like Uplink UGs) with several ramps leading to the "topside". Somewhere, either at the central UG or further up the ramps you have unhackable security doors (such as the ones on apartments), only openable by the owning clan. Remove the zoning bottleneck and the single entrance/exit bottleneck and you'll have yourself some excellent fights I think :)
*****
Now that i do like :D
james_finn
06-02-06, 22:16
I have to say that I like the whole idea FN. Im one for making there be more involvement in hacknet for the outpost system, I know most people dont want it, but I think thats because they are lazy. Ive had some good fights in hacknet holding the final line of defense against a massive army outside.
As for making the undergrounds extensions of the outposts without zone lines, now that would bring a whole extra dimension to the op warring scene, and maybe the doors could be hacked by a VERY high hacker to allow access? Or they get automatically opened on the second layer or something...
Excellent idea!
*****
As for making the undergrounds extensions of the outposts without zone lines, now that would bring a whole extra dimension to the op warring scene, and maybe the doors could be hacked by a VERY high hacker to allow access? Or they get automatically opened on the second layer or something...
Hopefully their security would be managed by something similar to my first Outpost Revision (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?p=1549681):
HACK #3: Outpost Worm Implanted
- Turret Security still disabled.
- GR security still disabled; Clan loses GR advantage and GRs to GR with SI.
- UG Door Security Disabled
- Camera Security gets a small drug haze overlay.
- Any Faction Guards are killed.
- With the third hack completed, a Worm has been implanted in the system and initiated in the the OP/Hacknet network. What this Worm does is it enables the OP ownership to be transferred to a new clan in within 10 minutes from inside Hacknet somehow. Part of the Worms initiation terminates a vital signal between the OP Hack Terminal and the Faction Guard(s) present. They have failed in OP protection and an implant in their head recognizes this and kills them.
james_finn
06-02-06, 22:25
*****
All your ideas seem to follow themselves, and all of what you say should be implimented :)
sanityislost
07-02-06, 01:23
Damn this idea rocks dude :D
SiL ..:..
Ye sweet idea.
*sarcasm on*
It will be put all toegether with all those good outpost change suggestions
in a huge patch coming yesterday, that will make the nc a better game.
Im ordering that free addon already for 40 bucks.
*sarcasm off*
I do like the idea FN. *****
One slight flaw I see.
Say Phoenix Ltd held Eastgate Factory, which is off Cajun uplink to help manufacture our vehicles. The DoY forces are deep towards Neocron, so it's not possible for Pro forces to attack the op under the rules.
That means for the clans who are well back in the line,there would be a lack of fights where the big clans would be upfront doing all the fighting.
Also it would mean if a Pro-clan had a fight with us and they won, they would take away nothing as they can't hack the op.
it would kinda be more *real* to have a front line between nc and doy this way doy or NC cant go far behind enemy lines and take an op where ever they want
they would actually have to advance form the front line i liek that idea
Say Phoenix Ltd held Eastgate Factory, which is off Cajun uplink to help manufacture our vehicles. The DoY forces are deep towards Neocron, so it's not possible for Pro forces to attack the op under the rules.
[...]
Also it would mean if a Pro-clan had a fight with us and they won, they would take away nothing as they can't hack the op.
Well they most definitely could 'attack' - but yes, they couldn't take it. But with shared alliance bonuses, would they ever 'need' it ?
That means for the clans who are well back in the line,there would be a lack of fights where the big clans would be upfront doing all the fighting.
That is true. Nothing is stopping fights from going on at OPs, but the ownership switch would be restricted. An active eye on the OP Map though might notice "Hey guys, DOY just lost Hawkins Uplink... Tristar's next and then we're in trouble - we should go check this out..." - Granted, I *never* look at the OP map, but if I were looking for a fight, I'd be watching the lines of contention to see if there were any action there...
I'm also hoping that over time, this battle-line would be moving back and forth. It would encourage universal fighting at ALL Outposts instead of the repitive "FF always fights at Cycrow" typed issues. You'd never know where the line would be that day and you could be fighting at a different cluster each day...
HOWEVER, to break up possible monotony, perhaps there could be special rules at Uplinks attached to Bridgelinks (DRT, TH, MB, BD, PR) - another high-level hack terminal IN HackNet at those links that anyone can hack... which, for say 15 minutes or so, interrupts the integrity of a security link between Outposts...
So DoY Hacker X goes into HackNet and disrupts (hacks) the Point Red Bridgelink. Even if NC owns GRAVIS Uplink and CREST, and normally they'd be un-attackable if SEIGER and FOSTER were also Pro-NC... now they are available to be attacked by DoY.
Seems a little complicated in text, I know - but everything has a learning curve. In a month - everyone would have this strategy twisted into 15 different ways and it'd be insanely challenging, yet thrilling I think.
KK, are blinking icons on the World Map possible? You have coloured layers, so why not have a flashing lightning bolt or something where a disruption occurs? A more active map might promote more global PvP...
Since you design is based on the current "linear" hacknet, have you considered changing the hacknet map? One design could be a triangle with DoY, NC and MB at each point and different op's along each line connecting each point. This would lead to at least 3 potential flashpoints for PvP and op fighting.
Fear my l33t ASCII art skills to show a triangle arrangement of the uplinks. This diagram is not to scale. That means the distance from Cajun to DoY Mainframe is not 10 travel zones, it is 1 travel zone like Tescom to DoY.
NC -- Gravis -- Hawkins -- Sieger -- MB
| |
\ Northstar
\ |
Crest Tristar
\ |
Foster Tescom
\ |
Cajun ----------------------- DoY
One thing I've not considered is what sort of ops are at each uplink, so it's possible a few ops could move to different uplinks to balance it out a bit.
As for the Tech Haven Bridgelink, I've deliberately not shown it. To get to it, you would have to go first to either Tristar, Hawkins or Foster and take the travel ways that head there. Since there are 3 Bridgelinks (Point Red, Battle Dome and Desert Race Track) these could be placed between the travel ways heading to the Tech Haven Bridgelink.
i don't think that the order that you can take OPs need to be changed. There's already the disadvantage of taking OPs in the middle of no where because once you lose the OP there is no where nearby to gr to.
i love a good pro city vs anti city ZERG wher on a weekend the map would move around alot, this would help the smaller clans hold maybe a single op because they know alot ot anti will help to keep thje map theres O_o
Any change at all to the Op war system is long overdue, as its been the same since NC2 launched - its the endgame so it should get more attention - even if the things they change are sideways steps designed only to make people adapt to new potential tactics.
I personally don't like the lattice idea as it is going down the same path of red vs blue which has hurt Neocron everytime they have done it. Doing it this way takes away the inter-faction conflict and again pushes us towards a simple 2 side dynamic.
Making HackNet an important factor in OP wars could give it a boost... it's always desert. Good idea FN
to expand the lattice idea.
using the following images (yes i know its image shack but im knackered)
Each Uplink is connected to 1 of each other OP type (Lab, Factory, Mine, Fortress) and as such the Ops will need to be redistributed (not hard really considering all the OPs are mainly cut N paste of each other)
As Shown (http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1926/uplinkclusters8gj.jpg)
there are to ways of attacking thru the lines:
1 attack thru the uplink highway (http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/2659/uplinkpath1ab.jpg) This would mean that Anti city would go from DoY attack Cajun leapfrog to Tristar jump to Northstar... etc. any ops that Are cut off from their respective empire and have no uplink route or secondary route (linked by connecting ops -see below) turns neutral the attack thru the uplink highway goes (from Doy to NC) as the map shows, so it allows you a way to bypass a pitched fight at all ops, and is the easiest route of which to take...
However if say Anti city are using the Uplinks to bounce thru the OP battle taking out as much of the enemies OP as possible and they reach foster uplink, and are about to jump/take gravis a pro city force can head to any of the DoY owned Uplinks and attempt to shut it down halting the Uplink attack route, this would be done by a hack force (not in hacknet) hacking the term of an uplink 3 times (like an op assault of old) and if they are able to stop the anticity from being able to reinitialise the op within 10 mins (as an example) then the Uplink connection is severed and the Uplink pathway cannot be used to take over OPs for a set period of time (allows for strike forces to disrupt the enemies advances)
2) OP lattice/OP routing:
If an Op has had its Uplink taken and is still connected by its OP secondary route lattace (http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/5780/lattice8br.jpg) it is still owned by its respective empire/faction... addtionally if the Uplink Highway form of attack has been disrupted this lattace shows how all the ops are linked from and to each other, allowing for a battle line to be drawn, and also makes it harder for one side to defend an op the further away from the clans home city.
only if they make hacknet
A -=- you apear at the genrep u hacked
B -=- tanks are alowed back in hacknet
c -=- all classes are atleast usable in hacknet even if one dedicated hacker could take down 2-3 part time hackers (maby rework all mob damage in hack net then introduce hacknet armour so players dont drop as fast to dedicated hackers)
that said i dont like the idea of the op only being hackable if you have the ajacent uplink =\ if i got that bit right... taking away the freedom... maby make it so its easyer to hack an op if u have the corrasponing uplink or harder if you dont =\ but still posible
I think you did get the wrong end of the stick there Zovos, None of this is based inside Hacknet, its all real world physical op attacks/hacks.
All this means in terms of hacks is thatm each op is links to a cluster and each op is also linked to another op in a netowrk style, which links NC to DoY, if there is no network connection to DoY then the op has no way of being controlled by DoY and vice versa.
I think you did get the wrong end of the stick there Zovos, None of this is based inside Hacknet, its all real world physical op attacks/hacks.
All this means in terms of hacks is thatm each op is links to a cluster and each op is also linked to another op in a netowrk style, which links NC to DoY, if there is no network connection to DoY then the op has no way of being controlled by DoY and vice versa.
you have to take an op to take another op... final op switch is in hacknet... 6 anti runners who have pushed us to the gates of nc can kill every runner who zones in before he has a chance to defend him self... and we cant atack an op further in... theres only one op we can take and its guarded by an un beatable force
-=Edit=-
of zoneline horing tosspots =] especialy if they realy wana scrue us over n send in a fraction wide force
as i said. make it harder to hack an op outside of the paramiters (linked to the city) but not imposible... or make it easyer to hack one if it is linked. either way
the fact about the HN part of an OP battle being stupidly imbalanced i wont argue with, its one of the worse mechanics ive seen... nice idea tho.
If Pro city are pushed back to their city they have 4 OPs they can attack from NC, not 1...
As for a solution vs hacknet? well id say this Hacks 1 to 3 are done the same, there is a forcefield of sorts around the terminal, once the third hack is done this field drops, at this point you can either
a) send in a hacknet runner to take over the op
or
b) Blow the shit out of the Hack terminal, distroying the OP's protocols etc, (say the Term has 1million hps, so its a huge effort to do) once the terminal is blown up, the OP goes neutral, you then need a Constructor or Repairer to turn up at the Terminal and repair it putting in the new protocols as hes doing it, once this is done (normal process window as if you csting time the same as it would take to do a 150 research BP) the OP is now yours.
This gives you 2 different options to taking ops, and stops the idiotic ability of 1 person in HN holding off 40 ppl outside HN.
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