View Full Version : Fixing SL the easy way 101
Bugs Gunny
06-02-06, 02:10
Pro city runners with red sl.... Gr into fa sector wtih ppu or as stealther, zone into leveling area in front of genrep, wait off si, kill the npcs....
Or alternatively if you have a bd epic appartement gr there, go down kill BD npcs.
Wait if off afk or run citycom missions.
Anti city runners...... wait it off afk or run citycom missions.
lol O_o didnt they fix the npc kill thingy ? cause ppl were abuseing it , cause if you kill the enemy npc's in NC you get no SL , so whats changed ?
the biotech npcs in viarosso are working fine for anti city runners
Pro city runners with red sl.... Gr into fa sector wtih ppu or as stealther, zone into leveling area in front of genrep, wait off si, kill the npcs....
Or alternatively if you have a bd epic appartement gr there, go down kill BD npcs.
Wait if off afk or run citycom missions.
Anti city runners...... wait it off afk or run citycom missions.
if this was made to make it look like pro have it better than anti it failed, see there is another way both sides can do....ready? Have a clanie make a new char, make him a driver. Get on one of your runners, run him a hovertech key and some int drugs, have him drive to MB. Bang insta fixed sl. If you have even more time most clans have a symp whore camped at grs ready to go.
So....what was the point of this post again?
you missed one option .. kill other players.
And apart from that I dont see any advantage to pro-city - nor do I see an advantage to doy.. so yeah.. whats your point? If you dont like ppl abusing your factions npc's kill em... afaik bdsec08 isnt a safezone .. afaik you'll even gain symp/sl for doing so ... :o
the biotech npcs in viarosso are working fine for anti city runnersShhh!
Ya, seems they fixed the epic NPCs. Does this mean they forgot to fix the "employee" and "member" npcs? :rolleyes:
The problem isn't the fact that people are using npcs and players to get SL back.
The problem is the cause. Soullight and symp shouldn't work that way to begin with.
Soullight and symp shouldn't work that way to begin with.Yes, they should.
Paper Dragon
06-02-06, 03:39
When spreading a lie, it's best to first know the truth, Bugs.
When spreading a lie, it's best to first know the truth, Bugs.
Im gona have to say that once again you have made a pointless post!, I always happen to come into threads and see you pissing about, if you have nothing good to say dont say it at all.
Ontopic- I think that all the NPC's in NC dont work anymore but some in the BD sector do work.
Paper Dragon
06-02-06, 03:50
Im gona have to say that once again you have made a pointless post!, I always happen to come into threads and see you pissing about, if you have nothing good to say dont say it at all.
Hmm?
'tis only pointless if you haven't a clue what it means. Or haven't been paying attention. Either way, calling the post pointless is pretty amusing. ;)
The thing is, it is the truth or was awhile ago. Also your post was calling him a liar/lieing. There is something called PM A.K.A. Private Message for those things seeing how it was directed right at him and no one else.
and city mercs just have a long sit in in th?
miss some possibilities for mercs to get rid of there bad sl in a quicker way :\
CMs usually account for that 5% population nobody sees in the server :lol: :lol:
Bugs was jsut trying to Help people get there soulight back without Exploiting!!! !GR Whoreing, is an exploit.
And they fixed the NPC kills in 1 way because, if you have to travel to the heart of the Enemy City, its still abit more of an effort than just nuking the stupid figaro in pp3.
Bugs Gunny
06-02-06, 08:08
First off all, i don't care what paper dragon says at all for all i care he can call me what he wants. Don't even edit what he says, so people can see it.
Second, how easy is it to get into the dome to kill npcs, and how easy is it to get into viaroso to kill like two three npcs that are very close to a lot of guards and copbots? The FA, BD and TG ones can all be killed from a safespot and there are loads of them.
Onero S. You just mentioned something that can get you banned on the forums and ingame too.
I think the new soullight rules are hilarious. You loose it so fast, be it accidents or being a bad person. Hell, people are leveling alongside their enemies nowadays. I've thought it over and i'm going to make people loose soullight on purpose, USING the soullight rules. I won't go into caves anymore to kill people, no sir, i'm going in there to (level)/(possibly die from aoe). Since they can't fix soullight easy you'll be seeing a lot of afk people.
Maybe the protests will make the KK team rethink the whole soullight issue.
Just call it a form of peacefull protest :-)
Bugs, I agree with what you say 100%, but I want to give you yet another perspective:
Given the fact that kk is NOT the megabucks megacorp, isn't it better to just let them focus on stuff that matters?
Come on mates we are ALL crying on 50 different aspects of the game but none prioritizes things. SL rules suck ok. So what? Let them fix what really matters, exploit the system for SL rules or dont exploit as you seem fit. We are all (or at least the majority as I want to believe) adults. If you want to crash the system its very easy to do so, but how will you benefit out from this?
Stop asking things all the time, lets be quiet for some time and see what we'll get in return
In short, it's stupid to go against the game you love rofl :lol:
Bugs Gunny
06-02-06, 08:54
They WORKED on the sl system in the last patches..... The first new version was so fucked up they finetuned it a bit.
No real thought was put into it, as in the first version you got killed at -16 by the guards, you couldn't kill enemies in either city.
Their "reviewed" version is still broken.
It's up to us to point out the problems.
Yes, they should.
Hell no.
Ultima Online has the best "soulight" (karma/fame) system any video game has ever seen, and it couldnt be more simple.
+100 - 30 (forget exact amount) makes you blue, if you attack anyone that isnt red you get a "criminal" flag, and go grey... this leaves you open to unpunished attack from anyone (stays for 2-3 minutes)
+29 - -29 (something like that) makes you grey, you are always considered a criminal, i think there is a small punishment for killing these players (havent played in years, cant remember exactly).
-30 - -100 You are red, You can be killed by anyone without punishment, if you are killed by a grey palyer, or anyone with more SL than you, they will gain SL.
It was a very basica rock, paper, scissors meathod, leaning towards punishment i guess. but still ALOT more effective than we have now.
All KK need to do to fix ALL soullight problems is add a "criminal" flag.
That way if you are a PKer, well you will get punished, if you are a defender you can fightback without any sort of worry.
If you are to clip someone in a leveling area, there may still be a problem, but atleast you will know, and can take precautionary actions.
Chances are if you are not in a team and this happens, the person you clipped and the others with you, will not punish you.
Or, alternatively to all of that, another simple "KK style" bandaid fix - add the little talked about "punishment popup" - basically you decide whether or not they should be punished for killing you.
They WORKED on the sl system in the last patches..... The first new version was so fucked up they finetuned it a bit.
No real thought was put into it, as in the first version you got killed at -16 by the guards, you couldn't kill enemies in either city.
Their "reviewed" version is still broken.
It's up to us to point out the problems.
fine. let's distract them then. in the end we will get the best SL system monk-paraspamm-o_cron ever :confused:
that's exactly why i say what i say, because they have woked on the thing already
They need input from players like this instead of Shit like "OMFG nerf this, Nerf That, Nerf etc etc etc, + i tihnk im the only one who liked th eNC1 dungeon Sector rules ^^
Bugs Gunny
06-02-06, 10:07
The NC1 dungeon rules system was indeed better.
And i checked the city for killable npcs.
There's one in viaroso 3 in front of the genrep, guarded by a lot of copbots next to him.
There's 6 spread out around the biotech hq, to kill them you have to move around the hq, where there's a lot of paraspamming copbots and two biotech guards.
In the dome i can kill 6 npcs in 3 sectors, without even moving around. Two of the sectors a tank can gr in and run/zone into a leveling area to get agro off. I'd love to see a lone tank get into viaroso2 and kill all the npcs.
I'm not asking for a free pking ticket, i'm asking for a fair system that works, without the possibility to go in and make an entire team go red with one easy move.
When i get told to by gms to fix soullight by killing enemy runners in the city, it makes me think about the fetish raids in p2, which were answered by gms spawning more copbots making it near impossible.
RockStrongo
06-02-06, 11:01
Hell no.
Ultima Online has the best "soulight" (karma/fame) system any video game has ever seen, and it couldnt be more simple.
+100 - 30 (forget exact amount) makes you blue, if you attack anyone that isnt red you get a "criminal" flag, and go grey... this leaves you open to unpunished attack from anyone (stays for 2-3 minutes)
+29 - -29 (something like that) makes you grey, you are always considered a criminal, i think there is a small punishment for killing these players (havent played in years, cant remember exactly).
-30 - -100 You are red, You can be killed by anyone without punishment, if you are killed by a grey palyer, or anyone with more SL than you, they will gain SL.
It was a very basica rock, paper, scissors meathod, leaning towards punishment i guess. but still ALOT more effective than we have now.
All KK need to do to fix ALL soullight problems is add a "criminal" flag.
That way if you are a PKer, well you will get punished, if you are a defender you can fightback without any sort of worry.
If you are to clip someone in a leveling area, there may still be a problem, but atleast you will know, and can take precautionary actions.
Chances are if you are not in a team and this happens, the person you clipped and the others with you, will not punish you.
Or, alternatively to all of that, another simple "KK style" bandaid fix - add the little talked about "punishment popup" - basically you decide whether or not they should be punished for killing you.
In uo you were red if you had more than 5 long term counts, permagrey if you were in the thieves guild (iirc) and blue if you had less than 5 long term counts. Karma only affected your title and possibly whether or not unicorns would attack you.
When spreading a lie, it's best to first know the truth, Bugs.
He is telling the truth, try actually trying out what bugs said, instead of throwing a paper airplane around.
I actually tried this last night, took my pro-city character for a walk in FA sector, who's gun slipped a lot.
Still he walked away with 100SL after 5 mins, and my FA symp is still at -89. In other words it didn't get any lower.
Stop asking things all the time, lets be quiet for some time and see what we'll get in return
if we were quiet, KK would still be working on 2.2 instead of the kewl balancing stuff we are getting. It's good to be loud !!!
He is telling the truth, try actually trying out what bugs said, instead of throwing a paper airplane around.
Since the same principles can be used for pro-doy chars (I know, being Crahn with one mainchar) his argument is not valid. I wouldnt say that he lies ...but just like Toxen always used to bring up "NC is shafted" arguments (very entertaining read) Bugs complaint up there does not reflect the truth.
It's not exactly the same for both cities - thats true. some NPCs are in less exponated than others... but then ... if I said:
"NC is shafted because unlike Doy it doesnt have 3 heavily guarded entrances ...but at least a dozen backdoors."
That argument would be fubared as well... its true, yet doesnt mean anything ...or do you guys have a problem to get to the FA and BD NPCs? :)
Bugs Gunny
06-02-06, 12:10
Having open unguarded genreps is not what makes you get shot by every guards and drop 5+items in a belt.
KK made a system to cater for the new generation of carebears, yet they gave free sl bitching to pro city pkers.
I don't mind the fact that pros can do it, hell we even caught some doing it in bd sector and killed them.
All i'm suggesting is either make it the same for both sides or rethink the whole system as it's borked to hell and back.
I'll prove in the next few days how many holes it has, without exploiting, abusing mechanics or griefing. I've confirmed with a gm that it was a valid way of making people loose sl.
In uo you were red if you had more than 5 long term counts, permagrey if you were in the thieves guild (iirc) and blue if you had less than 5 long term counts. Karma only affected your title and possibly whether or not unicorns would attack you.
lol, i didnt play on OSI, so i wouldnt know about the unicorns, also no thieves guild :P
But yea, you are right about the perma kills, forgot about that.
but the karma system on the servers i played on basically had what i stated - number might be a bit wrong, although i think it had the permakills, etc too.
The sphereserver shard i scripted (well sphere in general if i remember correctly) didnt use the 5 kill system, was more based on losing/ gaining amounts vs. what the other player had.
why dont we just go back to NC1 Soulight system? everything in nc1 was so much better. :angel:
Heavyporker
06-02-06, 18:13
that rock, paper, scissors thing from your post sounds so inapplicable to Neocron.
I mean, fuck's sake, have you completely forgotten about the little feature called factions? The little political cuteness like alliance, neutrality, and enemy status?
Ever thought about the problem of ally-pking?
Yeesh.
why dont we just go back to NC1 Soulight system? everything in nc1 was so much better. :angel:
Hmm not 100% sure about this. One thing which I posted a thread about was the SL issue with killing enermies in your own City's leveling zones.
Maybe reducing the penalty/bonus would be one step, but not the fix to the soullight system.
Someone find me a drawing board please?
http://artpad.art.com/artpad/painter/
Gunnar, if you are saying that you pk'ed us in catlocks bay in order to prove that the system is bugged, so i have to agree with Jini who said:
Bugs, I agree with what you say 100%, but I want to give you yet another perspective:
Given the fact that kk is NOT the megabucks megacorp, isn't it better to just let them focus on stuff that matters?
Come on mates we are ALL crying on 50 different aspects of the game but none prioritizes things. SL rules suck ok. So what? Let them fix what really matters, exploit the system for SL rules or dont exploit as you seem fit. We are all (or at least the majority as I want to believe) adults. If you want to crash the system its very easy to do so, but how will you benefit out from this?
Stop asking things all the time, lets be quiet for some time and see what we'll get in return
In short, it's stupid to go against the game you love rofl
The real point here is not a problem with what you(gunnar) are doing ingame to get KK take a look at problems, because it start ( it seems to start ) from a good intention ... but it's THE WAY you are doing it, because you are penalizing players by whining, pk'ing ( and Pk'ing allies ... )...
Thanks for reading, and cya ! (thanks for the "heal" tip you remembered to me ^^).
Bugs Gunny
06-02-06, 20:35
I didn't kill you to prove the sl system was bugged.
I went in there to kill you and hack your belts.
The fact that you guys went to a gm to complain about us using a hac* or expl*** to make you lose sl before we killed you is hilarious, you hit the FF pe before we killed him probably, hence you lost sl. Then we each killed one person, killed the rest outside.
Except for the FF pe, we killed all enemies. The silliest thing about the sl rules is that killing an enemy anywhere but the wastes or a city sector makes you lose massive sl. We might as well forget about red and white players and just team up with whoever to go opwaring.
Then if we arange a same sex marriage between the doy and nc leaders we'll have one happy family in nc and we can do singalongs.
The real point here is not a problem with what you(gunnar) are doing ingame to get KK take a look at problems, because it start ( it seems to start ) from a good intention ... but it's THE WAY you are doing it, because you are penalizing players by whining, pk'ing ( and Pk'ing allies ... )...
Thanks for reading, and cya ! (thanks for the "heal" tip you remembered to me ^^).
what do you mean its the way of what he does we have to blaim? it's his responsibilty if he wants to pk allies or not
Bugs Gunny
07-02-06, 08:27
Jini, Calim was the tangent ppu of a pro city leveling team that had hit an afk FF pe, they were realy mad when sweet leaf and me went in, killed the afk pe made one of their apus go down to i believe -68sl and then killed them. Too bad we didn't get that apus belt :-)
I tried the biotech hq npcs on my -56sl pe this morning. I spent 4 antishock drugs making it there alive, gring in in stealth from viarosso3.
The one npc in viarosso3 doesn't give you any sl.
The npc inside the building that connects to viaroso1 doesn't either.
Then i was able to shoot the 4 buiotech npcs near the zoo entrance an in sight of it. They gave me 5sl each.
Well if that's the legal way to do it and any pro can just do it far easier in 4 zones (yes, the TS zone is another one). Where there's no forrests of paraspamming screaming horse guards and copbots.
SCREW the soullight system.
I hereby denounce any authoroty from the ncpd and their soullight system.
I don't have the time to go antishock shopping all the time for it.
So, got a no pa setup, 10 spare of everything i cary in the appartement and i'll just go run around red.
Jini, Calim was the tangent ppu of a pro city leveling team that had hit an afk FF pe, they were realy mad when sweet leaf and me went in, killed the afk pe made one of their apus go down to i believe -68sl and then killed them. Too bad we didn't get that apus belt :-)
I tried the biotech hq npcs on my -56sl pe this morning. I spent 4 antishock drugs making it there alive, gring in in stealth from viarosso3.
The one npc in viarosso3 doesn't give you any sl.
The npc inside the building that connects to viaroso1 doesn't either.
Then i was able to shoot the 4 buiotech npcs near the zoo entrance an in sight of it. They gave me 5sl each.
Well if that's the legal way to do it and any pro can just do it far easier in 4 zones (yes, the TS zone is another one). Where there's no forrests of paraspamming screaming horse guards and copbots.
SCREW the soullight system.
I hereby denounce any authoroty from the ncpd and their soullight system.
I don't have the time to go antishock shopping all the time for it.
So, got a no pa setup, 10 spare of everything i cary in the appartement and i'll just go run around red.
I look forward to it, see you ingame
just scrap the whole SL system, you guys can use LEs if you don't like getting PKed :lol:.....altho i have a feeling that everyone will have their LE in if monks ever get balanced
just scrap the whole SL system,
Im down.
Jini, Calim was the tangent ppu of a pro city leveling team that had hit an afk FF pe, they were realy mad when sweet leaf and me went in, killed the afk pe made one of their apus go down to i believe -68sl and then killed them. Too bad we didn't get that apus belt :-)
Yes, i think that's what happened ... but read the rest...
I tried the biotech hq npcs on my -56sl pe this morning.
So why did you say while i directed you that you hadn't SL loss ? ??
I spent 4 antishock drugs making it there alive, gring in in stealth from viarosso3.
The one npc in viarosso3 doesn't give you any sl.
The npc inside the building that connects to viaroso1 doesn't either.
Then i was able to shoot the 4 buiotech npcs near the zoo entrance an in sight of it. They gave me 5sl each.
Well if that's the legal way to do it and any pro can just do it far easier in 4 zones (yes, the TS zone is another one). Where there's no forrests of paraspamming screaming horse guards and copbots.
SCREW the soullight system.
I hereby denounce any authoroty from the ncpd and their soullight system.
I don't have the time to go antishock shopping all the time for it.
So, got a no pa setup, 10 spare of everything i cary in the appartement and i'll just go run around red.
Right.
Bugs Gunny
09-02-06, 08:18
Because that's what i do when people start whining, i'll either go full on roleplay on them, denying the real world exists, or i'll go and have a bit of fun.
The soullight loss seems to be random at times , and the -95 i had was not from you guys, i've been bad a lot ofter the incident too.
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