View Full Version : GRs in Under Grounds: Good or Bad?
RogerRamjet
04-02-06, 01:28
OK, ive been OP fighting for most of my NC life, and on most servers.
Those who have been around long enough must remember the thrill of chasing, or being chased to the GR as you took or lost an Outpost. That was something exciting, running the gauntlet to the Genrep, but now...
People get hit a few times, zone down anyway. If they havent GRed by the time the HN layer is down, they usually put up a pretty feeble resistance and Genrep out.
So what did they lose from having their OP taken? Nothing. Maybe a few percent on the condition of their armour, no biggy. In NC1, there was always the motivation not to get caught in between the UG and the GR if you lost.
Now theres no such thing. You can quite happily pop your head up, zone down, and non-chalantly teleport away. This, i dont agree with. You should have to put a fight up or atleast leg it like fuck.
Anyway, just my thoughts.
Roger Ramjet
To me I think it's good and bad, but mostly bad. I think the zone whoring in and out of the UG is more of a problem. I think once the layer has gone down, you shouldn't be allowed to zone back into the UG without using the GR. That would help the situation a tad I would have thought. I don't want to turn this thread into an "omg remove para" thread but I think issues like that effect everything too.
I've only been playing since NC2 but I can see how the running from the GR to the UG and visa versa would be fun... but to be fair, all that will do is make people camp both the UG AND the GR which already happens at the moment. It would just bring GR camping even more into OP fights, which is lame.
If there were several underground exits across the sector that you could enter the UG at different sections through, it would be a BIG help towards countering the "omg barrel the UG" and "omg antibuff straight away while they're zoning out because they'll be syncing for like 3secs or more" issues. If you can place turrets around the genreps, but so they can't target people who have just been moved to the genrep spot, that would be a slight aid in countering the genrep camping, although they could still be sniped or AoE sniped by such things as the Doombeamer or Malediction.
Remove the UG.
I'm sure some of you remember soliko before the UG was added.
Best fights ever.
Really, they should remove the underground. It over complicates things and is-not-fun.
No point in changein it cos then fights would be crap, noone would go becuase you wouldnt make it to the UG or out to the GR cos monks are overpowerd atm, you cant say "rember how it used to be and lets put it back that way" with monks how they are.
Keep it how it is, game changes all the time, yeh had some good fights back in the day* but times change so do tatics and so must you ;)
The only way removing the underground GR would be a good thing is if monks stopped barrelling the exit.
Remove the UG.
I'm sure some of you remember soliko before the UG was added.
Best fights ever.
Really, they should remove the underground. It over complicates things and is-not-fun.
QFT , damm on satarn nc1 the op fights were ftw so bad. now its truley boreing so much zone whoreing.
***Btw soliko is the Op on the mountin ye ? or am i thinking of a dif one***
QFT , damm on satarn nc1 the op fights were ftw so bad. now its truley boreing so much zone whoreing.
***Btw soliko is the Op on the mountin ye ? or am i thinking of a dif one***
Yup thats the one.
Removing UG's would be such a great boost for ops wars. That and gettin rid of the pathetic HN bollocks chore that no normal person wants to do but some have to, which shows what a complete joke the situation is.
Get rid of UG's and the HN layer FTW.
or even keep it to old school, back when all you needed to do was hack one layer and the op was your's without GR rules/settings so the defending side can gather its force properly and try storm the attackers, instead of zonin up from the ug gettin the fre or dying before they even synch in from the mad barrels..
I'd tolerate the UG if it didn't fuck with the turret placements, but it does, so fuck the whole thing.
Dump the GR for sure, and the UG as it is now.
I'd prefer the placement fuckup be fixed and the GR to be removed for sure, but since I don't think it's easily fixable, just remove the whole god damn thing and let us PWN like we used to.
unlock UGs like they were in NC1 so anyone can zone down
I'm in two minds about it, but I think that locking the underground GR with the second hack, so no one can GR in or out would be a good thing.
unlock UGs like they were in NC1 so anyone can zone down
Maybe unlock it with the second hack too.
Roger got a good point, genereps inside UG is boring, if people want to get out of there they better try to run to the real GR ;). If the enemies are underpowered they usually just genrep out of there to avoid getting killed, boring tbh.
Ops need a major overhaul, not just UGs removed.
Atm it's pointless holding an op, no one really needs the bonus and you won't get much money from em. It just a status symbol.
About the UGs, there's 2 things i could think of right now.
1. Remove em. Make it like back in NC1 where you had to gather your force somewhere else, then fight your way back into the op. Those were the best fights i ever had back then.
or
2. Once the 2nd layer is down, the UG genreps are disabled and everyone can zone down. I think FN posted a good thread about hacking layers and all the other opfight problems.
Some other things i'd love about ops:
Remove the hn bullshit. It's pointless. Seeing that one or two hacknet spies can stop a complete force from taking an op is just pathetic. Not everyone can be arsed to roll a spy purely for the purpose of hacknet fighting. Cause apart from that, hacknet is completely useless.
OPs should also cost money, not earn it. And that i a way, that the more OPs you own, the higher the cost is, i.e. 10k a day for 1 OP, 100k for 2 OPs, 1 million for 3 OPs and so on. This would encourage smaller clans to get one or maybe 2 OPs and stop the bigger zerg clans from hacking the whole map just because they can. If they really want to, they still could do it but it's gonna cost them a fucking fortune. Good thing, just for the moneysink alone.
A turret revamp. I want turrets that i can gun, faction guards that patrol my OPs, cameras i can use to check the OP from a citycom, all that shit.
Easier access to the OP inside with vehicles. I'd love to see people using more vehicles in OPfights.
That's just a few things i can think of right now...
Ops need a major overhaul, not just UGs removed.
Atm it's pointless holding an op, no one really needs the bonus and you won't get much money from em. It just a status symbol.
About the UGs, there's 2 things i could think of right now.
1. Remove em. Make it like back in NC1 where you had to gather your force somewhere else, then fight your way back into the op. Those were the best fights i ever had back then.
or
2. Once the 2nd layer is down, the UG genreps are disabled and everyone can zone down. I think FN posted a good thread about hacking layers and all the other opfight problems.
Some other things i'd love about ops:
Remove the hn bullshit. It's pointless. Seeing that one or two hacknet spies can stop a complete force from taking an op is just pathetic. Not everyone can be arsed to roll a spy purely for the purpose of hacknet fighting. Cause apart from that, hacknet is completely useless.
OPs should also cost money, not earn it. And that i a way, that the more OPs you own, the higher the cost is, i.e. 10k a day for 1 OP, 100k for 2 OPs, 1 million for 3 OPs and so on. This would encourage smaller clans to get one or maybe 2 OPs and stop the bigger zerg clans from hacking the whole map just because they can. If they really want to, they still could do it but it's gonna cost them a fucking fortune. Good thing, just for the moneysink alone.
A turret revamp. I want turrets that i can gun, faction guards that patrol my OPs, cameras i can use to check the OP from a citycom, all that shit.
Easier access to the OP inside with vehicles. I'd love to see people using more vehicles in OPfights.
That's just a few things i can think of right now...
/Agree
Yeah FN chucked up some nice ideas on OP wars with various hacking layers it would be awsome but HN sux and the UG - remove it.
I prefered NC1 ops because as the hostile take over clan you never knew where the defenders where coming from, no zone whoring, and the old genrep run lol.
Without an UG to camp, paraspam and barrel, all the monks would just camp, paraspam and barrel the other GR instead. Then the defenders could all die without even attempting to pull a weapon (SI).
Richard Slade
04-02-06, 13:17
Remove zones!
RogerRamjet
04-02-06, 13:49
Good points about barreling/AoEing etc when you come up, but thats a risk youve gotta take anyway if you want to defend your OP.
Im just against the idea that theres no risk involved if you lose an OP.
The UG really took alot of the excitement from OP-wars. For most the sync, there should be no sync-possibility in OP-fight, least of all for only one side.
I suggest to block the way down after the first hack for all, also the owner. What the owner can try to do, is to reset the security settings during the fight. But best was when you first hacked all layers, then fighted, then hacked back if you defended successfully. I always hated the hacking during the fight, it's less enjoyable and you have less fighters.
The hacknet role in OP-war should stay, but optional. I think it should be possible to hack the layers inside hacknet _or_ outside. But inside it should not be just one click on a term.
Im just against the idea that theres no risk involved if you lose an OP.
But if there was a risk involved aka you lost something then there would be a huge deal made over ninja and zerg hacking, it all comes down to how the OP clans play the game, and they dont play it fair.
Without an UG to camp, paraspam and barrel, all the monks would just camp, paraspam and barrel the other GR instead. Then the defenders could all die without even attempting to pull a weapon (SI).How bout the other team just gathers at some other genrep and then attacks the op at once? Just a hint. :rolleyes:
Thats the best opfights anyway, if you got one team inside and the other trying to storm the op. Loved it.
Without an UG to camp, paraspam and barrel, all the monks would just camp, paraspam and barrel the other GR instead. Then the defenders could all die without even attempting to pull a weapon (SI).
No not true , back in nc1 ppl would gather a zone away or something and all charge , so Not true at all.
No not true , back in nc1 ppl would gather a zone away or something and all charge , so Not true at all.
Yep. A couple of the best fights I ever took part in (on saturn) where when 2 big groups of opposing forces met by suprise while running between ops.
RogerRamjet
05-02-06, 13:05
Yep. A couple of the best fights I ever took part in (on saturn) where when 2 big groups of opposing forces met by suprise while running between ops.
Like the huge Cartel/TNT/Imposing Order vs ASEN and their allies :D
Good times.
No not true , back in nc1 ppl would gather a zone away or something and all charge , so Not true at all.
That works fine if you are some map-spanning clan who owns dozens of ops all over. However, if you only own a few or they are seperated, I can guarantee you with the current hacking system, you will have lost the op before SI has worn off.
To me, the whole op-war system is one of two or three things (hacknet, player defences, aquiring rare items) that are really screaming out for a major rethink and overhaul.
That works fine if you are some map-spanning clan who owns dozens of ops all over. However, if you only own a few or they are seperated, I can guarantee you with the current hacking system, you will have lost the op before SI has worn off.
To me, the whole op-war system is one of two or three things (hacknet, player defences, aquiring rare items) that are really screaming out for a major rethink and overhaul.
Aye true m8 , im talking about old op war times , when gr's wernt locked and shit like that .
Leave the UG, leave the GR inside the UG. I do agree its anoying when people just GR out after HN is lost. So heres what to do. The GR should lock to people trying to GR out after third layer is down. The only people that can now GR in and out should be the winning clan.
Hope that is clear.
-B
But they haven't "won" untill the 4th layer is down (that's when the OP changes).
here are my ideas unlock grs however it costs way more to gr to an oponent's op than your own, for instance 2k for your clans op, 3k for an allied op, the usual 4k for a neutral one, and 10k for a red faction's op.
Then instead of making hacknet neccisary. Make a time lock switch you need to trigger in the op, 20 minuts after trigering it it glows and you need to re trigger it within 60 seconds. If you do so the op is yours. Triggering is via a device anyone clanned member can use but it takes 4 at once casting it for it to work. The cast acts like a rezz and takes 20 seconds but there are no reqs on it.
Owning an op should not generate cash however there would be a new NC stat: Power or Reputation or call it whatever. But the more ops you have the greater the rank is for your clan, a higher rank decreases store prices and if you have enouph ops perhaps even makes sl go away faster (not a large amoun, 5% or somthing) due to you being given priority at the cloning shop.
Also ops should have camras in them accesable via city com by the owning clan so they can check out the situation. Spys could even have a remote tool.
Hackers come in by doing 2 things. 1 there should be a way to turn off turrets in hacknet and 2, a spy in hacknet should be able to make the switch toggle take less time, or more time depending on which side the spy was on. So more hackers would only be needed if the other side had lots of hackers working agianst you.
But they haven't "won" untill the 4th layer is down (that's when the OP changes).
Ok thats true..so let me clearify a lil.
If the attacking clan takes three layers the GR in the undergroud should lock to outgoing GR's, but remain open for in comming people. Now the clan defending still has a chance to regain security and continue to fight.
wouldnt it be better if the UG wasnt a seperate zone and was actually physically under the op.
Doors acting like Clan Doors, with ramps leading down into the belly of the underground, Pitched fighting at the doorway, tanks fireing from cover as the door slides open and then closing while the attackers try to get as much AoE into the door way so that they can push inside, to the final hack terminal (ala 4th layer) to finally take over the op.
That would be better
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