View Full Version : Slots, Slots and More slots!
OK as a contstructor, I find the whole timesink of building run after run for decent slot weapons annoying.
In fact 5 slot items i.e. a Holy Shelter are carried by most in slot 1 for fear of losing it yet carry a rare elsewhere in their belts!
I know a 5 slot item is very hard to churn out and it's worth more than a rare but should this be the case?
We have slot enhancers of various types but the only one's worth the effort are in the Bug Bot City ( You guys know :lol: ) so are a major pain in the arse to get.
Lets have some change!! If i decide to put all my points in CST i should get a reward of Better slots than a hybrid!! no not a better chance as we currently have but guarenteed!
Discuss ;)
Put Slot Enhancers in the Rare pool again
Slotenhancers, as they are know, are completely useless. I don't think I've ever made better than a 4 slot item with the enhancers and that was a one time blizz, iirc. The randomness of the normal built slots just ruins it.
Either remove them completely, or change them so that they a) can be used on any non-rare item AFTER the item has been built and b) are much more rarer than they are now.
Well i would like to see Slot enhancers boosted to 4 -5 slots.
Skill affects slots so i.e.
CST 200 = 1 slots on every item additional slots random
CST 220 = 2 slots on every item additional slots random
CST 235+ = 3 slots on every item additional slots random
lets get a defined bonus for CST points!
specialisation :(
Exactly!
At the moment you get no benefit from specialising in a field. Logan is a hybrid for that exact reason but if the reward of slots was there he would gladly lom to FULL CST for that benefit :D Only because i get bored shitless doing run after run to get decent slots then to Yo's with the rest
Yes, agree completely.
Want to cap your guns? Specialise.
Want to run faster but take more damage? Specialise.
So wouldn't it make more sense - if you have more cst, you should have more slots? (Or alternatively, betters stats - make the quality cap exponentially harder to reach).
There are other examples in the NC world which don't follow this rule too.. off the top of my head are vehicles, and poking.
Eddie
Well i would like to see Slot enhancers boosted to 4 -5 slots.
Skill affects slots so i.e.
CST 200 = 1 slots on every item additional slots random
CST 220 = 2 slots on every item additional slots random
CST 235+ = 3 slots on every item additional slots random
lets get a defined bonus for CST points!I would rather see it as something like this, taking into account the +50 construction bonus from a factory:
CST 250 = 2 slots on every item additional slots random
CST 280+ = Incredibly high chance you'll get a 3 slot on every item
I would rather see it as something like this, taking into account the +50 construction bonus from a factory:
CST 250 = 2 slots on every item additional slots random
CST 280+ = Incredibly high chance you'll get a 3 slot on every item
Yeah dude those figures where excluding OP bonuses ;) but i think its fair to say you should get better results for higher CST not just a better chance :rolleyes:
totaly agree , i begrudge building shit nowa days after the shit i went thru when building spells for my monk . liek 450 spells i made and only 1 4 slot / 5 3 slots and rest just pure junk . I was so annoyed that i have'nt made anything since (tho i havent been plaing much lately) . If i needed a new high slot item , i thought hmm build or buy , seeing as i have crap loadsa money i brought it .
Bugs Gunny
01-02-06, 15:48
Slots are random and they should be, otherwise there would be NO WORK at all for al those constructors who don't have 225 in cst.....
I do all my own stuff including rares with 128 and i do just fine.
Put Slot Enhancers in the Rare pool again
Alot of stuff needs to go back to the rarepool imo.
Bugs Gunny
01-02-06, 16:11
Actualy you're better off speccing 98 in hack and cary dolinskin to get 5 slot spells. You'll get them faster too.
Specialising in CST seems to pay off, it seems like there's some soft caps in CST...
While Bugs calls slots random, I call it "dumb luck"...
My constructer was getting decent slottage at 180-185 CST on items up to TL75-80(whatever the TL is, that you start getting your name on 2 slotted items)..
When I went to 200 CST, I noticed that I was getting more slots(3, 4 and 5 slotters) on the 3rd tier items(TL 75-80 and up)...
It seems the higher your CST the better your dumb luck factor and slot
consistency is...
I dont think KK will make it so you are guaranteed slots, without slot enhancers(which should drop off most high level mobs, with the 0.9 ones being store bought)...
and ftw...
Slots are random and they should be, otherwise there would be NO WORK at all for al those constructors who don't have 225 in cst.....
I do all my own stuff including rares with 128 and i do just fine.
I don't know... who don't have 225 cst is really a constructor? I mean, what advantage has who spend all points in cst?
Imho, the best would be adding some % in the chances to get more slots based on cst, rather than flat add slots
Slot enhancers should be a tad easier to get again. Maybe even put em back into the rare pool (drop as a whole though) with a low chance to drop.
About construction and specialization, someone from KK stated that the higher const you have definatly gives higher chances for slots and that someone with a rather low const skill would for example pretty much never get 5 slots on a high tl item. No matter how many tries.
But as it's KK we're dealing with here, i'm not completely sure about all that.
Lemme try and dig that thread out. :)
/edit
Here goes, stated by Niddy.
Besides slotenhancers, which guarantee 1 to 3 slots, the only way to influence your chance to get slots is to get a construction skill as high as possible.
There are 2 variables in the formula that determines the amount of slots: the quality of the built item and a random number (0-199). Although quality of constructed items has a cap, the quality used by the formula is the theoretical quality, so having just enough CST to reach the build cap for the desired item is far from being optimal. In fact, if the quality is below a certain level, it is not possible to get 5 or even 4 slots. This quality is based on the TL of the constructed item DEX, INT and your CST skill.
So having a high build quality opens up the possibilities to get up to 5 slots. To get the slots, a random number is rolled. If that random number is above a certain number (derived from fixed factors and also the quality), you get 0 slots. For 1 slots, the random number has to be lower than the calculated number above. For 2 slots, it has to be below another number that's lower than that required for 1 slot. Same thing for 3, 4, 5 slots, the random number the game rolls has to be lower and lower. That's why builds with low quality can never get 5 slots, the required number would have to be negative (which it can't be).
As the quality factors into the formula determining the breakpoints for x slots, a high quality means a bigger range of random numbers will be able to get you slots. In other words, it increases your chances to get slots.
Rare weapons are a special case though. In addition to the formula described above, there is another roll for either 0, 1 or 2 additional slots (33.33% chance to get either). That's why rare weapons generally have more slots than non-rares.
Well i would like to see Slot enhancers boosted to 4 -5 slots.
Skill affects slots so i.e.
CST 200 = 1 slots on every item additional slots random
CST 220 = 2 slots on every item additional slots random
CST 235+ = 3 slots on every item additional slots random
lets get a defined bonus for CST points!
i can definatly run wit this since having between 150 and 200 in const makes no difference in the quality of the wep. 200+ would be more of an incintive to be purely a conster.
yeah i agree with the set slottage for high TL csts...
for me ever since lommin to 235 cst my slottage has been still roughly teh same as when i used to be 185... pretty sad tbh
plz give csts mroe balance / perks for specilizing >_<
awkward silence
02-02-06, 00:51
specialization sucks ass
Hybs FTW!
Seriously get a life!
I think everything is all right as is with slots, slots enhancers, and doy tunnel.
On the other hand i think its lame we have bugged loots and obsolete parts.
(crahn cath, then holy cath...)
Making high slots any easier to get, even by specialization, would kill the last bits of tradeskilling in the game.
I decided to do a little experiment with constructing and the % of 0,1,2,3,4,& 5 slot builds.
I went with a tl3 Heal just to start. I found that 93 construct skill was needed to cap it at 94% stats.
I then built 8 separate batches of 100, each time with a different construct skill. cnst. skill - 115 - 130 - 165 - 180 - 200 - 225 - 245 - 265.
The results were almost exactly the same for each cnst. skill. within a 5% margin.
Roughly:
0 slot - 53%
1 slot - 31%
2 slot - 12%
3 slot - 3%
4 slot - 1%
5 slot - 0.5%
I have roughly the same % chance of building a 4 or 5 slot with 115 cnst as I do with 265 cnst. That, to me, doesnt seem right. Your chances should be increased at least some what, with a higher amount of cnst skill.
That's a nice little experiment, but you used way too low TL-item as a subject and perhaps a bit too few items built as well.
Try it again with a Blacksun or similar and patches of 200+.
Bugs Gunny
02-02-06, 11:49
Which is exactly why i prefer my 195res, 128cst, 115 implant, 165rep 50recycle doy carrier piloting hyrbid tradeskiller over using many different characters to do the same thing.
Now if i could be bothered to go to labs, i'd spec 114 selfbuffed barter on him too.
I decided to do a little experiment with constructing and the % of 0,1,2,3,4,& 5 slot builds.
I went with a tl3 Heal just to start. I found that 93 construct skill was needed to cap it at 94% stats.
I then built 8 separate batches of 100, each time with a different construct skill. cnst. skill - 115 - 130 - 165 - 180 - 200 - 225 - 245 - 265.
The results were almost exactly the same for each cnst. skill. within a 5% margin.
Roughly:
0 slot - 53%
1 slot - 31%
2 slot - 12%
3 slot - 3%
4 slot - 1%
5 slot - 0.5%
I have roughly the same % chance of building a 4 or 5 slot with 115 cnst as I do with 265 cnst. That, to me, doesnt seem right. Your chances should be increased at least some what, with a higher amount of cnst skill.
If you got PE (and some time to lom him twice lol) do that test on him you will see difference... (and do 1st batch @ quality cap 94% skill)
Bugs Gunny
02-02-06, 13:54
Try doing it on a tank :-)
Dam you guys get the point?
Its the fact he has to build Batches of 100 or a further suggestion of 200!!
Why should you have to build 200000000 weapons of any sort to get a slotted one>??
If your skill is high you should turn out slotted weapons ;)
Bugs Gunny
02-02-06, 14:48
I'll lom the hack out of gunnar and flood the market with some 5 slot spells :-)
I'll lom the hack out of gunnar and flood the market with some 5 slot spells :-)
The max slottage i suggested bugs is 3 so the 4 and 5 will still be random.
In fact the 1-3 slots will still be random for a hybrid, just the way i see it working is if you Push all your points into CST you should have a guarenteed result of slots.
That way either build shitloads to get slots or be a FULL cst :angel:
your formulas only gives players with a lot of time to WASTE making a pure cstr an advantage.(The specialization)
FUCK THAT.
Try doing it on a tank :-)
There was a cnsting tank afair....
csting is fine the way it is. not broke = dont fix.
I'm not saying its broke!
I'm simply saying that the current system doesn't allow a dedicated CST or any tradeskiller to be rewarded for time spent. This would need to be balanced with the noob CST/Tradeskiller to still be viable.
Hence a low level player can still have slot chance where a higher level player would have a minimum slottage for sure.
Bugs Gunny
03-02-06, 23:27
I'm telling you, changing it would make all noncapped csters go out of business.
Nobody would have stuff built by them and then we're back to droners leveling and loming to cst when overcapped.
maybe make a nice tool for insta build (no time waiting on %) but LEAVE SLOTS AS IS !!!
urgh slotties 1 and 2 are so simple to get
i can collect a ton of em just wandering around on my hyb monk backw hen he was a /37
... the only reason lvl 3 slotties are hard to come by is the bugged botts... i can survive down there for a while until i either A am shot through a wall when running away because i pushed my self a lil to far. or B bugged bot hits me for a death blow...
i had tons of slottie 1's n 2's i tip with them. or give them out to people. they are so not hard to get
if i ever find the bots stop shooting through walls. i will proceed in cleaning out lvl 3 for ultimas
the problem is if u build 50 items with slot enhancers i dont think the slots add up... eg if u build a 2 slot item and use a illigal enhancer u dont get a 5 slot item u get a 3 :S
maby im wrong. any dev who could clear that up id apriciate
I'm not saying its broke!
I'm simply saying that the current system doesn't allow a dedicated CST or any tradeskiller to be rewarded for time spent. This would need to be balanced with the noob CST/Tradeskiller to still be viable.
Hence a low level player can still have slot chance where a higher level player would have a minimum slottage for sure. these days, if you don't want to be scammed you need your own conster. That requires a char slot. It's a bit of a waste if that cster has to specialise so much that he can't do anything else if he wants decent slots. Not everyone has multiple accounts.
<<Logans Emporium>> Has NEVER scammed more over if you ask about i have a good reputation hence i get DS,SA to rep and Rares to build i even hand back 5 slot rares!!
Good tradeskillers are around you just need to find out who.......But much like Public transport there is never one around when you need one and then 2 when you don't, hence we all drive cars ;)
I take your point on a hybrid for those players who like or out of necessity build their own stuff.
I'm not saying its broke!Is your day job that of a politician?
You're attempting to change the system. By definition, you think it's broken from your perspective, else you wouldn't be wanting to change anything.
I'm simply saying that the current system doesn't allow a dedicated CST or any tradeskiller to be rewarded for time spent.Dedicated CSTers aren't rewarded? Since when? If any tradeskill specialization is rewarded, it's the Constructor.
Don't try to get your changes waved through by pretending this goes for other tradeskills. It doesn't. You have your own agenda and your own carpal tunnel you want to prevent.
There's nothing wrong with the current system. It allows hybrid res/cst players to be viable. It certaintly doesn't prevent dedicated CST individuals from preying on players who believe extremely high CST is an essential ingredient to getting an item built.
Bugs Gunny
06-02-06, 15:02
I think G.O.D. the constructing tank proved back in NC1 that slots on rares are random.
I think G.O.D. the constructing tank proved back in NC1 that slots on rares are random.Supposedly, STR used to influence CST. It was a hidden attribute that they didn't clean up until NC2.
Having said that, KK's said in the past that slot chances and overall stats on rares are much higher than on regular items.
Bugs Gunny
06-02-06, 15:13
Well, KK said so many things.
We all remember the hidden sixth stat they all said didn't exist.
So who knows? STR might still influence cst, as you still gain str from csting.
We all remember the hidden sixth stat they all said didn't exist.There wasn't a sixth stat (http://neocron.jafc.de/showpost.php?p=1453301&postcount=12). It was a bug.
Is your day job that of a politician?
Is yours a comedian?
You're attempting to change the system. By definition, you think it's broken from your perspective, else you wouldn't be wanting to change anything.Dedicated CSTers aren't rewarded? Since when? If any tradeskill specialization is rewarded, it's the Constructor.
I'm not attempting to change anything, just offered up an idea for discussion. If you do not agree state why
Don't try to get your changes waved through by pretending this goes for other tradeskills. It doesn't. You have your own agenda and your own carpal tunnel you want to prevent.
My own agenda? yeah ok :rolleyes:
There's nothing wrong with the current system. It allows hybrid res/cst players to be viable. It certaintly doesn't prevent dedicated CST individuals from preying on players who believe extremely high CST is an essential ingredient to getting an item built.
is this an inference that i prey on runners? I am a bloody hybrid !
To cap a rifle in PvP you give up the ability to use a pistol or you can be good at both but not great at both.
With a CST/RES hybrid you can cap all non rares and RES all rares seriously ?
Its ok to have to specialise in PvP but god forbid rewarding someone who decides to specialise in their given tradeskill field.
As for applying to CST only iIstarted out with that in mind but as the thread progressed I came to realise this could be applied to most Tradeskills. You see I am open to ideas and suggestions from otker players and can in some instances change my point of view can you?
I think G.O.D. the constructing tank proved back in NC1 that slots on rares are random.
i was gona say god but if i got the name wrong id look stoooopid
To cap a rifle in PvP you give up the ability to use a pistol or you can be good at both but not great at both.
With a CST/RES hybrid you can cap all non rares and RES all rares seriously ?
Its ok to have to specialise in PvP but god forbid rewarding someone who decides to specialise in their given tradeskill field.
As for applying to CST only iIstarted out with that in mind but as the thread progressed I came to realise this could be applied to most Tradeskills. You see I am open to ideas and suggestions from otker players and can in some instances change my point of view can you?
I agree fully, imo the cost of building 1 item should go up, but a capt pure cst should give good results MUCH more frequently than they currently do.
james_finn
06-02-06, 22:41
TBH the pair of you do look stoopid :p It was G.0.D. :P lol, his self constructed CS was legendary :D
Delphi
To cap a rifle in PvP you give up the ability to use a pistol or you can be good at both but not great at both.But you don't give up the ability to do other things, like repair, drive, research, recycle, etc. It's also not an equal comparison given that the maximum DEX points available for combat is 525 vs the 553 INT points available for tradeskilling.
With a CST/RES hybrid you can cap all non rares and RES all rares seriously ?First, you can "cap" stats on all non-rares with as little as 110-120 CST if you're a capped Spy. Capping slot chances occurs at another level, but only KK knows what the combination of CST, INT, and DEX is for that.
Second, with appropriate imps and spell/factory/lab bonuses, an unclanned hybrid RES/CST player can easily RES at 221, then turn around and CST at 225 with an appropriate OP zone choice, single imp swap and PPU support.
Its ok to have to specialise in PvPSpecializing in PvP does not necessarily mean maximizing combat skills at the expense of other traits.
but god forbid rewarding someone who decides to specialise in their given tradeskill field.You do understand that people who cap all rare rifles "give up" things like runspeed, vhc, rec, rep, etc., correct? And the gains from giving that up are minimal, at best, as most who use rare rifles are aware.
I came to realise this could be applied to most Tradeskills.I've heard this all before and it's all old news.
This is a combat-oriented MMO, not a crafting party. There's no reason people shouldn't be able to have both a combat specialization and a tradeskill specialization on the same character. What you're proposing to change would remove that abilitiy.
Just want to add that the slot system sucks asssssssss , the shit i went thru to get CS parts (paying 1m for the last part i needed) and what did i get when i made it ... a peice of crap 0 slot .... came so close to just selling it to yo's .
Just want to add that the slot system sucks asssssssss , the shit i went thru to get CS parts (paying 1m for the last part i needed) and what did i get when i made it ... a peice of crap 0 slot .... came so close to just selling it to yo's .
Unlucky m8 :(
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