View Full Version : Hc Woc?
HC Woc? Make HC tanks interresting again... give em an all powerfull woc weapon as well...
HC Woc? Make HC tanks interresting again... give em an all powerfull woc weapon as well... is it a coincidence that your a HC PE, and you were whining about overpowered xbows on trade yesterday? I think what dirus said about people wanting their own class to be the best has an element of truth in it.
Altho I agree, there should be a HC WoC cannon, but you'd never level a PE to str woc anyway ;)
NO
OVERPOWERED
WoC
ITEMS
PLEASE
(I want to be able to play this game WITHOUT having to grind to WoC to be competetive)
NO
OVERPOWERED
WoC
ITEMS
PLEASE
(I want to be able to play this game WITHOUT having to grind to WoC to be competetive) so you wouldn't agree with dex woc 2 being anti buff? I'd love that so much
so you wouldn't agree with dex woc 2 being anti buff? I'd love that so much
xbow PE that can debuff ppus? lol :D
woc item should be powerfull as it is hard to get.
make an ion cannon kinda liek xbow pistols
make an ion cannon kinda liek xbow pistols
Theres already an ion shotgun cannon, pistol and rifle.
We just can't aquire them quite yet (although its getting closer)
woc item should be powerfull as it is hard to get.
No.
KK have already said that WoC Items will not be a requirement for PvP.
Give tanks their gold PAs back, level 3 I guess? For WoC 1 :)
Or a PA that looks like a Stormbot or something, I think DJ said that?
And while your at it give melee tank's a woc weapon that kills runners in 4 or 5 swings. Something like this maybe?
http://images2.pictiger.com/images/83/ba25df0c692e7a6d7aea445b62ff4e83.jpg (http://www.pictiger.com/)
I want a real sniperrifle for spies so you can do 1shot 1kills with it on monks. .p
Then they are not overpowerd.
I want a real sniperrifle for spies so you can do 1shot 1kills with it on monks. .p
Like a Rifle with Anti Shelter Muni like before? :lol:
http://images2.pictiger.com/images/83/ba25df0c692e7a6d7aea445b62ff4e83.jpg (http://www.pictiger.com/)
n this could be a good area weapon for melee tanks :lol:
Lets put in an APU WoC item where you click on people and they die instantly, too?
No.
KK have already said that WoC Items will not be a requirement for PvP.
you can still have powerful items, but do so you have to gimp part of your setup to use it so that it balances out
Bugs Gunny
22-01-06, 16:05
It's allways funny to see people go "omg overpowered xbow", when they'll be asking later if it's true that you dont' need any dex imps, just all resistor chips and it caps at 75wpl 160pc......
Did any of you people even test the pistol in neofrag? Oh and btw, zeltarg and me can pretty much kill any of the other xbow pes on the server with our xbows and get away with more than half health. We'd probably kill them using tl92's.
The problem is not the gun, it's the people.
When Jini and crunchy get their xbows, they'll be overpowered as well i guess.
On a sidenote, for those people complaining, a VERY good xbow (stats vary between 104 and 94, i'm talking a 101 freq here) takes 150wpl and 175pc to cap. It has a clip of 30, shoots 92 freq. Compared to an xray exec it does about 5% more dammage (38 per shot to a very well setup pe).
To all the people complaining about it, use neoskiller and make that setup. Then start leveling, it's a lot easier nowadays with places like regants legacy.
xbow's not overpowered for the amount of dmg it does, its overpowered because the bolts track like an apu spell
A x-bow pe is overpowered, but no more than a slasher or exe pe. Its all in the db, you goin get wrecked by any decent slasher, exe, or x-bow pe if you dont have anti db's in your belt.
Bugs Gunny
22-01-06, 16:18
xbow's not overpowered for the amount of dmg it does, its overpowered because the bolts track like an apu spell
I can't believe some of the total nonsense people make into myths about the xbow.
xbow's not overpowered for the amount of dmg it does, its overpowered because the bolts track like an apu spell"track" like an APU spell?
I'm guessing he means it isn't LoS. which isnt at all true - the advantage of the xbow is it does plasma-style damage - so if someone is stood right in front of you, you can shoot and it will still do damge even if reticle isnt closed.
xbow's not overpowered for the amount of dmg it does, its overpowered because the bolts track like an apu spell i can't believe that you just said that. Every single weapon in the game apart from AOE tracks the target after you have aimed and shot.
How hard is it to understand that 2 PEs in an exclusive PE only clan might be a little bit better than the average NC player.
A TL 105 Gatlin Cannon would work.......
No.
KK have already said that WoC Items will not be a requirement for PvP.
Give tanks their gold PAs back, level 3 I guess? For WoC 1 :)
Or a PA that looks like a Stormbot or something, I think DJ said that?
HC wouldnt need new PA if Camo wasn't nerf beyond sanity, after all welding a HC weapon reduces your speed a great deal why do they need the 25 athletics nerf as well? MC tanks just lose HC, which in theory they don't use anyways so it's a total rip.
Well, a HC tank can totaly overcap the tl115 hc weapons without using a pa.
So actualy the hc pa is of no use at all, try doing that on a spy.
I think you missed the point, HC tanks dont wear PA because of the athletics nerf, that should be removed and replaced with MC.
Bugs Gunny
22-01-06, 17:00
Well, a HC tank can totaly overcap the tl115 hc weapons without using a pa.
So actualy the hc pa is of no use at all, try doing that on a spy.
Gunnars right, you have to be good a good aim to fight effectivly with the xbow.
And thats also how I agree the WoC weapons should be, powerful but very hard to master.
Dargeshaad
22-01-06, 17:39
Compared to an xray exec it does about 5% more dammage (38 per shot to a very well setup pe).
All shit aside, the xbow actually excel compared to the exec (which seems to be the favourite comparison weapon) on quite a few points.
Range/Aim: Aim seems to be the same, however the xbow will hit more compared to the exec since it is a one shot weapon (exec will commonly miss one shot and from time to time miss both shots, whereas in my experience when the xbow didn't have WOC req, the xbow seemed to rarely miss a shot, much like a SH)
Freq: Same freq as exec (exec 185rof/2shot = ~92 rof per shot, same as xbow)
Dmg: You say 5% more dmg, i don't know where you get the number from, but I believe it, although I'm sure it'll turn out to do more/less dmg depending on class (less vs spy and more vs monk/tank fx)
Clip size: It has double the clip size of the exec
Overall: Obviously all things added together, the xbow will do quite more than 5% more dmg than an exec over a time period of say a minute.
Cap REQ: 150wpl and 175pc for xbow, 120wpl and 181pc for exec. WPL is not a biggie, however 6 less PC makes it possible to change a SF/SA for a MOVEON/PPR.
Conclusion: In the hand of a neonate pvp'er it will give a small boost, however in the hands of a skilled player vs another skilled player it'll give that extra edge to win, both on terms of increased dmg, but also because of the extra HP/Resist/run speed from using a MOVEON/PPR.
I say: Remove the Faction Restriction on the Special Forces Plasma Wave and make it at least "a bit" easier to cap. Since Waves aren´t the best PvP Weapons, what about changing it to a Cannon? Then turn it into a WoC Weapon. Voilâ. Tanks got a brand new WoC-Item.
I say: Remove the Faction Restriction on the Special Forces Plasma Wave and make it at least "a bit" easier to cap. Since Waves aren´t the best PvP Weapons, what about changing it to a Cannon? Then turn it into a WoC Weapon. Voilâ. Tanks got a brand new WoC-Item.
Erm,so its a WoC CS? Woo?
Dirus is right, people are always against powerful items which can be used against their own class. The Xbow should be more powerful then other items, people seem to be forgetting the 260million exp needed, the woc disc and the xbow itself.
Dirus is right, people are always against powerful items which can be used against their own class. The Xbow should be more powerful then other items, people seem to be forgetting the 260million exp needed, the woc disc and the xbow itself.
Hmm, so its either spend weeks farming (and let me make this clear, there is nothing HARD about getting WoC, its just time and patience) or lose at PvP? Yeah, thats a game I want to be playing...
WoC should be there for people who want to say "i have this WoC weapon, fair enough its no better than -insert weapon here- but i have it".
WoC should be there for people who want to get it and not something people need to have.
Reading just the bold bits of that sentence should get my feelings about WoC across.
i can't believe that you just said that. Every single weapon in the game apart from AOE tracks the target after you have aimed and shot.
How hard is it to understand that 2 PEs in an exclusive PE only clan might be a little bit better than the average NC player.
actualy, in a burst weapon, every shot after the first one per burst will noot track because your retical is pushed a more open. Unlike most 1 burst weapons the x bow has fairly high RoF meaning it acts much like an apu spell.
Edit: I NEVER said that the x bow has no LOS
Hmm, so its either spend weeks farming (and let me make this clear, there is nothing HARD about getting WoC, its just time and patience) or lose at PvP? Yeah, thats a game I want to be playing...
I didnt say make it overpowered, but by the kind of stuff some people are saying its like the xbow shouldn't be anymore powerful then the weapons PE's can use already.
It is hard to get the woc and everything, you have to get into the ceres labs and manage to a woc disc with a one in a thousand chance, do the xbow quest with those damn juggernauts, and manage to level in places like Regents Legacy (if you havn't noticed its been made more difficult now, when one of those parasites hits me I can bearly move, plus their damage doesnt bounce, its a nightmare to drone in their if I cant aggro them away from my body.)
Basically if you dont have a team of monks in the juggernaut facility, you wont get the xbow for a very long time, ecspecially if your like me and you drone.
Hmm, so its either spend weeks farming (and let me make this clear, there is nothing HARD about getting WoC, its just time and patience) or lose at PvP? Yeah, thats a game I want to be playing...
Amen.
I don't want to grind woc on all my pvp chars just to compete in pvp. WOC should not be a must for pvp. Give woc guns a small (SMALL) edge over normal pvp guns. But not more. Nothing special. If KK would change antibuff to woc, it would pretty much mean every APU that wants to pvp HAS to grind woc. And i just couldnt be arsed to do that.
Give us pretty PAs, apartments, vehicles, stuff like that. It shouldnt have to be guns only.
I still got the occasional nightmare about the gravis swamp caves from when i leveled him to woc 1. :lol:
And i still ain't got a disc, dammit!
My opinion about WoC is the weapons like the Xbow should be more powerful but require more skill to use effectivly.
Which in some cases is the truth now, I've even beat an xbow PE with my judge. Its the person using it who can aim well which makes the difference.
I still got the occasional nightmare about the gravis swamp caves from when i leveled him to woc 1. :lol:
try doing it on a PE, slower xp and you need a lot more overcap
Bugs Gunny
22-01-06, 18:21
I've been killed by a lot of people, pes, tanks, spies, pure apus, apu hybrids, blessed hybrids, all in duels or in streetfights.
The ting is that most of the people who complain about the xbow would probably die to a good pe using a nonrare pistol. Worst of all, most of the whiners don't even have a clue about the xbow, let alone seen the stats on it.
Xbow does not have double clipsize to an exec the exec fires 20 shots, the xbow 30. Sniping on a xbow... sure, you'll miss 50-70% of the shots.
It's a close range weapon, just like a judge or exec. You can snipe a lot better with a slasher to be honest.
It was nerfed hard (and it was good it was nerfed), both in stats and in dammage. Maybe a lot of people think it's still the same as it used to be.
Just remember, remove the xbow, even remove slasher and other high level rares from pes and there will still be the same people using different weapons, killing more than average amounts. The complaints will continue.
Dargeshaad
22-01-06, 18:40
Xbow does not have double clipsize to an exec the exec fires 20 shots, the xbow 30.
I took my info from neocron.ems.ru and it states 2/30 ie. it fires 15 shots in a clip, so unless that has changed the xbow does indeed have double clip size.
Things I didn't consider was also the fact it does small AoE dmg, although I'm not sure how efficient it is vs stealthers, it is still a possibility. And finally it is NO DROP, meaning you can have -100 SL and not care much about dieing since you just loose armor/spells or you can choose to use two kind of weapons, ie. xbow+tl92 pulselaser
I can only agree with the people that say WoC should not be a requirement to compete in PvP, which as I see it will eventually turn out to be. I personally think that the fact that you can use an exotic weapon that few can use, thereby showing status and added to that NO DROP/repairs to 120 status (not sure if that's the case right now, but it should) should be some of the small benefits of spending time to get to WoC.
Apocalypsox
22-01-06, 18:46
Theres already an ion shotgun cannon, pistol and rifle.
We just can't aquire them quite yet (although its getting closer)
O.O i want an ion shotgun 8|
I've been killed by a lot of people, pes, tanks, spies, pure apus, apu hybrids, blessed hybrids, all in duels or in streetfights.
The ting is that most of the people who complain about the xbow would probably die to a good pe using a nonrare pistol. Worst of all, most of the whiners don't even have a clue about the xbow, let alone seen the stats on it.
Xbow does not have double clipsize to an exec the exec fires 20 shots, the xbow 30. Sniping on a xbow... sure, you'll miss 50-70% of the shots.
It's a close range weapon, just like a judge or exec. You can snipe a lot better with a slasher to be honest.
It was nerfed hard (and it was good it was nerfed), both in stats and in dammage. Maybe a lot of people think it's still the same as it used to be.
Just remember, remove the xbow, even remove slasher and other high level rares from pes and there will still be the same people using different weapons, killing more than average amounts. The complaints will continue.
Why are you allways defending your little xbow. And saying you need exelent skills to kill with it? It's because you know its overpowered. It's even at a point where you say why are you running away to a safe zone, please stay where you are nib, you have no skills bla di bla di bla. But when you do the same it's skill offcorse. Stealthing away when you know you should get droped takes skill? Oh no just a little timing. Just like running to a safe zone to heal up. It's all lame i agree. But atleast have the nurve to say it's overpowered. A Paw of bear is overpowered. I admit it. Would i like a nurf on my pob? Hell no!!
Why are you allways defending your little xbow. And saying you need exelent skills to kill with it? It's because you know its overpowered. It's even at a point where you say why are you running away to a safe zone, please stay where you are nib, you have no skills bla di bla di bla. But when you do the same it's skill offcorse. Stealthing away when you know you should get droped takes skill? Oh no just a little timing. Just like running to a safe zone to heal up. It's all lame i agree. But atleast have the nurve to say it's overpowered. A Paw of bear is overpowered. I admit it. Would i like a nurf on my pob? Hell no!!
Stop whine. It's not overpowered just because you got pwned.
Why are you allways defending your little xbow. And saying you need exelent skills to kill with it? It's because you know its overpowered. It's even at a point where you say why are you running away to a safe zone, please stay where you are nib, you have no skills bla di bla di bla. But when you do the same it's skill offcorse. Stealthing away when you know you should get droped takes skill? Oh no just a little timing. Just like running to a safe zone to heal up. It's all lame i agree. But atleast have the nurve to say it's overpowered. A Paw of bear is overpowered. I admit it. Would i like a nurf on my pob? Hell no!! paw of bear isn't overpowered. just like you should spec xray to counter xbows, if you spec poison you can take on PoB tanks.
The difference between xbow and exec is between 0 and 50 HP at the end of the fight. Some of the stuff that me and bugs can do would be impossible if we were just average players with xbow as Ras Klaat demonstrates.
U know whats funny, everytime sume1 makes a thread in wich sume1 says the words xbow and overpowered, always the same 4 people are posting and are defending it with all their might, wich are also using an xbow.. coincidence?
Oww and 30 shots per clip means no reload, dropping health rapidly on a haz3, holy shelter/defl buffed PE isnt normal (not to mention a full resist setup tank).. add AOE to that and a near instant damage output, i mean if u hit near me it will do damage as well.. and its my setup that sucks.. riiiiight. KK put this weapon in the game, u guys use it, and will defend it ofcourse.. OMG what will happen to your leetness if your xbow would get nerfed.. lol
Anyway this is way offtopic..
Im serious about this HC woc thing, since tanks are getting the boot atm. And yes i have an HC pe and my tank is doing nothing. Simply cause hes an inferieur class atm as a hc tank. (reloading any1).. And am thinking to stop going for hc completely (and go for xbow :P )... but ill give KK a chance to tweak the reloading.
Bugs Gunny
22-01-06, 20:42
Ok. To stop the whining. How about Zeltarg and me duel everyone that thinks it's overpowered in NF, with weapons like judge, tl92 pulse, tl83 fusion pistol. Hell, some people i'll even duel with a tl55 plasma cannon to shut them up.
EDIT: And killall, seriously, test resists in NF. A HAZ3 buffed pe is not much different from a selfbuffed pe. If you're constantly running around as a pe crying "buff me pls" you're wasting a perfectly good ppu there.
RogerRamjet
22-01-06, 20:47
Stop whine.
Get resists.
Its pointless to continue this discussion about the xbow, im getting sick of it tbh.. IMO a xbow PE is overpowered.. stealth, tl 10 heal, and a weapon that does more damage then a holy lightning (cause xbow hits more) means overpowered.. period. Sumething for KK to fix if they feel the need to it.. They put all this in the game. U use it.. i complain about it when i am at 10 health after 5 shots of xbow... While i drop a tank easily and have fun with a exe pe cause that damage is in range of not being overpowered and u actually have to reload during the fight... then comes an xbow pe , piew piew piew and i have to run, doesnt matter if i got a heal going, buffs or whatever. Theres no fun here.
BTW i got fucking GOOD resists, so stfu about that, its getting old.
RogerRamjet
22-01-06, 21:00
The fact you lose to an Xbow PE isnt down to the xbow.
Btw i dont have an Xbow PE. I have seen what overpowered is. And it aint an Xbow PE.
Sorry, i didnt realise you had a good setup.
Dargeshaad
22-01-06, 21:09
Here's some math for the people that don't think x-bow is overpowered:
This is calculated over a span of one minute, which is what Dirus used when he balanced the weapons (he said so himself). Furthermore, I use the dmg that Bugs reported for a well setup PE, 40 dmg from x-bow and 38 for exec.
X-Bow: 92 shots/min meaning about 1,5 shots/sec. Have to reload (92/30) 3 times over the span of a minute meaning (3*2,5sec) 7,5sec needed to reload in that minute, meaning (7,5sec*1,5shots/sec) 11,25 shots are wasted on reloading, thus total dmg accumulate to (92-11,25) 80,75*40 = 3230dmg
Exec: 92 shots/min meaning about 1,5 shots/sec. Have to reload (92/15) 6 times over the span of a minute meaning (6*2,5sec) 15sec needed to reload in that minute, meaning (15sec*1,5shots/sec) 22,5 shots are wasted on reloading, thus total dmg accumulate to (92-22,5) 69,5*38 = 2641dmg
Thus the total damage difference over the span of a minute between the x-bow and the exec is 3230/2641 = 22,3%!!
This is excluding considerations such as amount of misses in a minute, however I think we can all agree that 1 shot weapons miss fewer shots than a 2 shot weapon, thereby adding even more dmg potential to the x-bow.
Tell me now that 22% more dmg + extra HP/Resist/Runspeed from MOVEON/PPR is not DAMN OVERPOWERED
Bugs Gunny
22-01-06, 21:27
.. i complain about it when i am at 10 health after 5 shots of xbow... While i drop a tank easily and have fun with a exe pe cause that damage is in range of not being overpowered and u actually have to reload during the fight... then comes an xbow pe , piew piew piew and i have to run, doesnt matter if i got a heal going, buffs or whatever. Theres no fun here.
BTW i got fucking GOOD resists, so stfu about that, its getting old.
A well specced HC pe should get 35-36 per shot, which means you only have like what? 190 health on a hc pe? Even with a damageboost (which you should take off if you have any idea of what you're doing) you'd have too little health to be a real hc pe.
Mu suggestion to you as a hc pe is stop running around with a ppu plug, and learn how a pe pvps.
If you are going to run around with a ppu all the time you might as well play a tank.
x-bow isnt over powered,
Im not the best fighter in the world but even i have beaten a xbow user... ok i rotated 3 weapons until i found what damaged him most =] (peaople realy should spec all damage tipes) and then i have fough a great xbow user... omg first time i have run like a lil pansy when we outnumbered them across mb zoneline. he didnt miss a single shot *crys*
xbow on a good runner is =z
just as blessed hybs aint over powered.
sumbody who knows how to use em. they are painfully overpowered.
RogerRamjet
22-01-06, 21:51
Tell me now that 22% more dmg + extra HP/Resist/Runspeed from MOVEON/PPR is not DAMN OVERPOWERED
If you use a moveon and ppr theres no way youd cap the xbow frequency, so youd have to change the formula for damage again.
MOVEON/PPR i don't think having a moveon in is adviseable and my runspeed is 58/75, people don't live to the end of the clip, and if you were to shoot 30 shots in a row your wouldn't have a heal on you for a while.
EDIT: worked out from those numbers that you could do 570 dmg to a PE with 15 shots of exec, where xbow would take 14.25 shots to do that dmg.
Scaramanga
22-01-06, 21:57
It would be nice to see some WoC strength items for PEs. This is justifiable due to the fact that you can select PEs at the character creation for the express usage of Str based weapons. Yes, i am painfully aware that str will be very time consnsuming for a PE to reach WoC level on. However, as WoC isnt supposed to be necessary it won't be missed.
My favourite item for a MC or HC PE to have would be Power Armour. Not just a scaled down versoin of the Tank PA.
It would be nice to see some WoC strength items for PEs.
It would be nice to see woc items for all classes not just a select few. All classes woc items should be in, or none at all.
Scaramanga
22-01-06, 22:16
It would be nice to see woc items for all classes not just a select few. All classes woc items should be in, or none at all.
Ideally yes, I was just putting forward the case for Str based PE WoC specific items.
Sooner that all classes WoC items are ingame the better.
Dargeshaad
22-01-06, 22:20
If you use a moveon and ppr theres no way youd cap the xbow frequency, so youd have to change the formula for damage again.
Don't know how you setup your char, but a quickly made out xbow PE I just made could easily cap an xbow from Bugs numbers by using 3 drugs and MOVEON/PPR + PA
i don't think having a moveon in is adviseable and my runspeed is 58/75, people don't live to the end of the clip, and if you were to shoot 30 shots in a row your wouldn't have a heal on you for a while.
EDIT: worked out from those numbers that you could do 570 dmg to a PE with 15 shots of exec, where xbow would take 14.25 shots to do that dmg.
You probably have different preferences for your char, ie. no or 1/2 drugs or even PA-less, however for an equal setup xbow/exec PE you'd use 3 drugs most likely.
As for the other yap, I said I used the formula that Dirus used for b-a-l-a-n-c-i-n-g making the point you're trying to argue for somewhat dull
If you are going to run around with a ppu all the time you might as well play a tank.
Who ever said i have ppu backup all the time? Im talking about the 1 time i actually let a ppu buff me..
I never ask for buffs, not needed, only prims at op fights.
Don't know how you setup your char, but a quickly made out xbow PE I just made could easily cap an xbow from Bugs numbers by using 3 drugs and MOVEON/PPR + PA
You probably have different preferences for your char, ie. no or 1/2 drugs or even PA-less, however for an equal setup xbow/exec PE you'd use 3 drugs most likely.
As for the other yap, I said I used the formula that Dirus used for b-a-l-a-n-c-i-n-g making the point you're trying to argue for somewhat dull because .75 of a shot on a PE with 570 HP makes all the difference...
NO
OVERPOWERED
WoC
ITEMS
PLEASE
(I want to be able to play this game WITHOUT having to grind to WoC to be competetive)
... rumors tell that he logged his ppu after posting this ...
Winston Smith
23-01-06, 01:03
I'd just like to point out the ridiculousness of most (if not all?) classes having to drug to wear PA4. I play LE and I'm sure KK will never have pa4 allowable for LE players which I can understand I guess. I see a tank wearing PA4 maybe once every two weeks. The setup isn't difficult but drugging to keep powerarmour on is retarded (for any class). Just an idea, make it woc str 1 but also with one less point (heh or maybe 6) to make it wearable again, AND keep the regular PA 4 for the tiny minority that like it.
I'd just like to point out the ridiculousness of most (if not all?) classes having to drug to wear PA4. I play LE and I'm sure KK will never have pa4 allowable for LE players which I can understand I guess. I see a tank wearing PA4 maybe once every two weeks. The setup isn't difficult but drugging to keep powerarmour on is retarded (for any class). Just an idea, make it woc str 1 but also with one less point (heh or maybe 6) to make it wearable again, AND keep the regular PA 4 for the tiny minority that like it.
why wear pa4 when u could wear cammo?
cammo is... to all intestive purpose's better than pa4
Bugs Gunny
23-01-06, 03:35
It would be nice if KK finaly implemented those other woc weapons, since they ARE in the blueprint maching in the gaia mines.
And scaramange, there's a pe str woc item, the knuckles.
It would be nice if KK finaly implemented those other woc weapons, since they ARE in the blueprint maching in the gaia mines.
And scaramange, there's a pe str woc item, the knuckles.
ha... ye cos that defenatly isnt for tanks... dam crap damage on it =\
be it would be pritty nice on a pe using a db actualy
... rumors tell that he logged his ppu after posting this ...
Whether you want to believe it or not, PPUs have now become a necessity for most PvP. The second you see the enemy has a PPU, you either have to run away, stay and fight if you have a distinct number advantage, get a PPU of your own, or just die.
I have nothing against the XBow, though if WoC becomes anymore powerful than that, WoC will become a neccesary as PPUs.
Here's some math for the people that don't think x-bow is overpowered:
This is calculated over a span of one minute, which is what Dirus used when he balanced the weapons (he said so himself). Furthermore, I use the dmg that Bugs reported for a well setup PE, 40 dmg from x-bow and 38 for exec.
X-Bow: 92 shots/min meaning about 1,5 shots/sec. Have to reload (92/30) 3 times over the span of a minute meaning (3*2,5sec) 7,5sec needed to reload in that minute, meaning (7,5sec*1,5shots/sec) 11,25 shots are wasted on reloading, thus total dmg accumulate to (92-11,25) 80,75*40 = 3230dmg
Exec: 92 shots/min meaning about 1,5 shots/sec. Have to reload (92/15) 6 times over the span of a minute meaning (6*2,5sec) 15sec needed to reload in that minute, meaning (15sec*1,5shots/sec) 22,5 shots are wasted on reloading, thus total dmg accumulate to (92-22,5) 69,5*38 = 2641dmg
Thus the total damage difference over the span of a minute between the x-bow and the exec is 3230/2641 = 22,3%!!
This is excluding considerations such as amount of misses in a minute, however I think we can all agree that 1 shot weapons miss fewer shots than a 2 shot weapon, thereby adding even more dmg potential to the x-bow.
Tell me now that 22% more dmg + extra HP/Resist/Runspeed from MOVEON/PPR is not DAMN OVERPOWERED
nice numbers there... i like them
errr one question: have you, or anybody else seen anyone hit ALL his shots for 1 minute time??? does duels last so long??
In your opinion PEs are overpowered against what?
BTW there IS something that is MORE powerfull than an xbow pe and isnt WOC weapon... im gonna lom some and check it out, because i speak of theory, but im almost certain
Here's some math for the people that don't think x-bow is overpowered:
This is calculated over a span of one minute, which is what Dirus used when he balanced the weapons (he said so himself). Furthermore, I use the dmg that Bugs reported for a well setup PE, 40 dmg from x-bow and 38 for exec.
X-Bow: 92 shots/min meaning about 1,5 shots/sec. Have to reload (92/30) 3 times over the span of a minute meaning (3*2,5sec) 7,5sec needed to reload in that minute, meaning (7,5sec*1,5shots/sec) 11,25 shots are wasted on reloading, thus total dmg accumulate to (92-11,25) 80,75*40 = 3230dmg
Exec: 92 shots/min meaning about 1,5 shots/sec. Have to reload (92/15) 6 times over the span of a minute meaning (6*2,5sec) 15sec needed to reload in that minute, meaning (15sec*1,5shots/sec) 22,5 shots are wasted on reloading, thus total dmg accumulate to (92-22,5) 69,5*38 = 2641dmg
Thus the total damage difference over the span of a minute between the x-bow and the exec is 3230/2641 = 22,3%!!
This is excluding considerations such as amount of misses in a minute, however I think we can all agree that 1 shot weapons miss fewer shots than a 2 shot weapon, thereby adding even more dmg potential to the x-bow.
Tell me now that 22% more dmg + extra HP/Resist/Runspeed from MOVEON/PPR is not DAMN OVERPOWERED
Rest my case.
Het is toch niet te geloven deze gastjes :) Sorry for dutch, i just had to. Get some resist, lol, I mean how much higher can tank's go, without a ppu? And get a better setup for a pe is also pure bullshit. There's only one way to go and that's up as high as you can get it. Everything!! (inc HLT) My tank has 114 natural resist, wich i have in energy fire and xray, and like 45 poisen. Ha ha you dont spec poisen bla bla. save it!! And yes i hate fucking monks aswell. But if your there fighting and having fun, and in runs a xbow pe, like killall said pew pew everyone scatters. Why is that? Everyones resis't? Come on, you don't believe that. And i understand it must be thrilling as hell droping runners left and right :D
Bugs Gunny
23-01-06, 21:47
All i'll say is, come to NF and we'll go do the line of judge, tl92 and tl83 pistols on you.
All i'll say is, come to NF and we'll go do the line of judge, tl92 and tl83 pistols on you.
gunnar, chill or somone is going to show up thats going to shove those lowtech pistols up your ass.
Somhow I don't think its a coincidence that most of your clan chose to play PEs instead of say tanks.
and btw xbow pe only comes right after hybrid in terms of power, it still is way stronger than any other class solo so save your boasting.
I still have the most respect for people that own with tanks these days, and btw gunnar I know you're a good player, but this had to be said, you make yourself look like a fifteen year old posting stuff like that
gunnar, chill or somone is going to show up thats going to shove those lowtech pistols up your ass.
Somhow I don't think its a coincidence that most of your clan chose to play PEs instead of say tanks.
and btw xbow pe only comes right after hybrid in terms of power, it still is way stronger than any other class solo so save your boasting.
I still have the most respect for people that own with tanks these days, and btw gunnar I know you're a good player, but this had to be said, you make yourself look like a fifteen year old posting stuff like that try fighting APUs on a tank, and you'll see why we don't like using slow moving classes for raiding.
I'm not telling you that you should change class, I am just pointing out that the class you guys choose to play is far from weak and that braging on the forums makes you look dumb, regardless of weather or not there is truth in what you say.
I'm not telling you that you should change class, I am just pointing out that the class you guys choose to play is far from weak and that braging on the forums makes you look dumb, regardless of weather or not there is truth in what you say. when everyone screams that we only kill people because we have xbow, we love to prove people wrong ;)
And as far as being a solo combat goes, tanks, PEs, spies and APUs are even, as proven by me bringing a tank to NF and killing my fellow PE clan mates
when everyone screams that we only kill people because we have xbow, we love to prove people wrong ;)
And as far as being a solo combat goes, tanks, PEs, spies and APUs are even, as proven by me bringing a tank to NF and killing my fellow PE clan mates
solo combat is not the same as a duel
solo combat is not the same as a duel
no lmao a dual u just have to aim at eachother. its lame. u cant use tactics u cant use anything its just aim... so bugs will win that
solo fight u can stealth use tactics aswell as areas to ur advantage... so erm... bugs will win that to
:lol:
Tanks have AOE, can drive + gun most vhcs without gimping themselves, have loads of HP, do good dmg, they never really have to worry about buffs, and they have a very 2 very good poison weapons in each skill branch which will own high tech PEs, APUs and spies.
Spies are pretty much the same as PEs, but can tradeskill and drone a lot better.
APUs have excelent dmg + can debuff PEs, never have to worry about buffs, and very easy aiming, have AOE and can kill PEs and spies very easily with poison beam
Tanks have AOE, can drive + gun most vhcs without gimping themselves, have loads of HP, do good dmg, they never really have to worry about buffs, and they have a very 2 very good poison weapons in each skill branch which will own high tech PEs, APUs and spies.
Spies are pretty much the same as PEs, but can tradeskill and drone a lot better.
APUs have excelent dmg + can debuff PEs, never have to worry about buffs, and very easy aiming, have AOE and can kill PEs and spies very easily with poison beam
PEs: Have best resists of any class exept hybrid/ppu monks, have tl 10 heal meaning over the course of a fight they have more effective hp than any other class. Have a stelth for stratigic fighting/escape. Very fast class if speced right and aiming on pistols is not hard.
As I said before, PEs are vastly stronger for solo than most other classes. Did you just compare them to a solo apu and tank? PEs are faster than tanks, do similer dmg, have a much stronger heal, have more resists, and have stealth. And a solo apu, there is a reason there have only ever been 2 or 3 apus known for solo in the history of the game. Have fun healing up with medkits and its physicly impossable to fight more than 1 person at a time on a solo apu.
And a solo apu, there is a reason there have only ever been 2 or 3 apus known for solo in the history of the game. Have fun healing up with medkits and its physicly impossable to fight more than 1 person at a time on a solo apu. You don't see many APU PEs either...and do you know why?
because it's stupid for any class not to spec PPU if they want to solo PK. And if you want to escape on APU or tank then get a quad.
And tanks can do very good dmg if they can aim, just like PEs :eek:, but luckily for the PEs, there are hardly any decent tanks.
Bugs Gunny
24-01-06, 20:04
Oh, now comes the Giga pwned almost all the fetish pes with a cs tank story :D
Last night in NF, it was obvious that a good tank with CS still ********** pes.
but luckily for the PEs, there are hardly any decent tanks.
Im a bad tank if that helps :p lol
my tank's con is pretty badly setup too
Threads like this make me laugh.. the constant bickering about what is and isnt over powered is just comical at times.. "its over powered" "no its not, get some resists.." lol
anyway back on topic.
New WoC weapons will most likely be put on hold till the balance issues are sorted. There is no point trying to work out the numbers when the rules behind those numbers are being changed. All it results in is spending time figuring it all out, then spending the time to rewrite the rules, followed by spending more time redoing what you spent time on in the first place.
I'm sure most of you will agree that it's not the best way to go about things. Tho some will probably not care and just want new toys "now".
my tank's con is pretty badly setup too
my tanks setup is perfect
Im a bad tank if that helps :p lol
my skills are far FAR from leet
=] ahh if only i could aim.
New WoC weapons will most likely be put on hold till the balance issues are sorted. There is no point trying to work out the numbers when the rules behind those numbers are being changed. All it results in is spending time figuring it all out, then spending the time to rewrite the rules, followed by spending more time redoing what you spent time on in the first place.
woudlnt it be easyer to write a spreadsheat to do that for you
Threads like this make me laugh.. the constant bickering about what is and isnt over powered is just comical at times.. "its over powered" "no its not, get some resists.." lol
anyway back on topic.
New WoC weapons will most likely be put on hold till the balance issues are sorted. There is no point trying to work out the numbers when the rules behind those numbers are being changed. All it results in is spending time figuring it all out, then spending the time to rewrite the rules, followed by spending more time redoing what you spent time on in the first place.
I'm sure most of you will agree that it's not the best way to go about things. Tho some will probably not care and just want new toys "now".
Thank u,
I dont want a new toy NOW, id rather things get more balanced. This should be a priority, and bugz. Then add new stuff that probably will need tweaking as well.
.Spies are pretty much the same as PEs, but can tradeskill and drone a lot better.
APUs have excelent dmg + can debuff PEs, never have to worry about buffs, and very easy aiming, have AOE and can kill PEs and spies very easily with poison beam
pes have 25 more con lvls then a spy its no where near even
take a pe with xbow and a apu let them stand in front of each other and jsut shoot and the apu would die with pe at half health or so pes against an apu and the pe have the advantage ( solo tho)
in op fights tho pes are at a disadvantage big time becourse of YES ppus
Bugs Gunny
25-01-06, 14:14
Actualy a spy makes up most of the lost con by putting runspeed points under dex.
I can make a spy that has the EXACT same resists under fire-energy as my pistol pe, the same bodyhealth, yet he lacks poison but has way more xray.
The spy also hacks 115 and pokes 115.
but the PE gets better shelter stats, tl 10 heal, blessed deflector, and still retains stelth
i can't believe that you just said that. Every single weapon in the game apart from AOE tracks the target after you have aimed and shot.
How hard is it to understand that 2 PEs in an exclusive PE only clan might be a little bit better than the average NC player.
You forgot the special spy thats in fetish :P which is me ;)
You forgot the special spy thats in fetish :P which is me ;)
Lucky for you Kid Kapow is stuck in CM with pretty much every symp fucked beyond belief. :lol:
I got like -1244623987 gazillion with every other faction. And the last thing i'll ever do is run those fucked up anarchy breed missions. :(
About tanks, theyre fine. Theres just nearly none left that can actually fight good. Pretty much everyone sticks to hightech PEs or APU hybrids these days.
The only good tanks i've recently come across were behemoth and that one guy from clan DoY, what was his name again? That's the only ones i can think of right now.
Also Nabbl on mars is quite good though i didn't really fight him often enough and my tank over there is pretty weak still.
Bugs Gunny
26-01-06, 08:20
You guys are so lucky zyccy the beast doesn't play anymore, he beat ALL the fetish pes 8/10 in duels.
Oh and i'm taking my slasher spy over, along with my other pe.
The pe has -84bd, leaving him afk for a day raised symp by 4, so that's about 2-3 weeks of being afk. About the same as it would take with normal playing time, trying to find a ppu, dying and spending one game hour at least to kill 20 of those mobs per faction symp.
Dargeshaad
26-01-06, 08:37
You guys are so lucky zyccy the beast doesn't play anymore, he beat ALL the fetish pes 8/10 in duels.
Must be another zyccy the beast that I'm thinking of then, because the one I'm thinking of I beat 5-0, that's about 5 months ago though so maybe he improved since then :lol:
Must be another zyccy the beast that I'm thinking of then, because the one I'm thinking of I beat 5-0, that's about 5 months ago though so maybe he improved since then :lol:
Well he either had a bad day or just got alot better right after. Lots of people have trouble hitting me and in most duels i had with him he didnt miss me once, all the way up until i died. He is also real cocky, made me realy mad whenever i lost :lol: .
Bugs Gunny
26-01-06, 08:57
Oh you think that's bad? Wait till he gets drunk takes his guitar and starts singing songs on voicecoms :D
Must be another zyccy the beast that I'm thinking of then, because the one I'm thinking of I beat 5-0, that's about 5 months ago though so maybe he improved since then :lol:
You should have tried fighting him using your spy or tank then, not your apu hybrid
Edit: Urgently needed a "frag me I'm famous" t-shirt Rockkwear ingame for Dargeshaad :lol:
Dargeshaad
26-01-06, 09:44
He is also real cocky, made me realy mad whenever i lost :lol: .
Can backfire too
http://www.sitecenter.dk/x-files/nss-folder/scrapbog/dump.jpg
Disclaimer: Might have been taken out of context
Bugs Gunny
26-01-06, 10:21
I'm undecided wether morganth or dargeshaad have the largest one :D
Oh you think that's bad? Wait till he gets drunk takes his guitar and starts singing songs on voicecoms
Wait till i get on vent again and start freaking out when i'm drunk. :lol:
About zyccy. I think we're pretty even on our spies though in the end i used to beat him more often than he got me.
When he's got a good day it's pretty much impossible to beat him though.
Back in neocron one zyccy used to run from my tank every time but i did pretty much have the CS down to a T now with the reload times i can't put it away and round rings around them to make them loose aim coz i still gota reload after cheers for dat :<
back then 1 on 1 j0rz.tnk didnt loose even darkH never beat him..
Bugs Gunny
26-01-06, 13:08
Yeah, but you realy need dsl instead of 56k.
You forgot the special spy thats in fetish :P which is me ;) i did ask if mrs dru blood was you but you never answered
I'm undecided wether morganth or dargeshaad have the largest one :D
I doubt anything in this world can beat dargeshaad in the area you mention... I would have said a lot more, but I'm really afraid of all the photospamming we will have to suffer after such a mistake of mine :angel:
Yeah, but you realy need dsl instead of 56k.
I'm phoning them every day now, telling 'em to hurry the fuck up. Yet they still can't figure out what's the problem. Stupid ISP. :mad:
i did ask if mrs dru blood was you but you never answered
sorry my m8
yes mrs dru blood and iron charity rackham are my fetish alts :) :angel:
You can see em normally around p2 pp3 crp drt mb and any where there are people and can draw my weapon hehe
Bugs Gunny
26-01-06, 15:36
Fix your sound instead of killing innocent allies all the time.
Fix your sound instead of killing innocent allies all the time.
im not happy if i dont pk atleast 30 people a day
30 a day habait is hard to kick you know
ill try get the stupid thing to work by tomorrow coz im picking another sound card up
Dargeshaad
26-01-06, 16:23
I'm undecided wether morganth or dargeshaad have the largest one :D
Talking about genitalia, whatever happened with assman?
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