View Full Version : KK Killing our fun
KKs advertising being misleading:
Now as i recall it, when i joined this game, i never envisioned myself making a monk.
Why ? Simply because i never tought we really NEEDED em.
The cover, the ads, the site... (apart from the forums) nothing was telling me I was geting myself into a cyberpunk-you-need-a-spell game.
My point is this : You need 'magic' for EVERYTHING in this godamn game.
This 'magic' has become so important to be competitive in the game its not even funny, everywhere you go you see/hear ppl casting SPELLS !!!
Guns arent even competitive, half of em sucks for PvP, especially when compared to magic. It seems to me like guns are more and more becoming a 'support' class.
This 'magic' is killing the magic of the game. Period.
As i said before I never envisioned myself needing the spells so much.
The way this game is going is wrong, it shows something (ads) thats not even realistic of the game really is going these days.
Utimately, i fell this : Fuck Holy spells. theres 3 lvs of PSI spells and we only really need 2 for pvp : basic, and blessed.
I mean a blessed APU/PPU can take most classes.
Im sick of magic.
Im sick of magic.
Buy some Software and go into the Hacknet
Hacknet looks and feel like a godamn spell.
I want a reticule, and a 'real' gun in my hands, that makes POP POP.
Utimately, i fell this : Fuck Holy spells. theres 3 lvs of PSI spells and we only really need 2 for pvp : basic, and blessed.
I mean a blessed APU/PPU can take most classes.
Im sick of magic.
hum. ignoring ppus for now, holy lvl apu spells... depends on wut class is on the receiving end. If your a pe or tank, really you should be able to rip a solo monk to shreds as long as you know wut ur doing and have the right weapons. (of course this applies to the monkey as well).
but if you toss ppus into the foray (which i believe is the major gripe you have and i agree) we're screwed.
but unlike most people before me who blame it all on holy shelter, I personnally think its the HEAL. A ppu w/o holy heal is just a slightly beefier PE with less hp. and we all know a holy heal tossed on an apu makes the team nearly unkillable unless the ppu messes up.
So my solution to the problem would be to give heals the same foreign cast penalty that shelters/deflectors do. that way it will dumb down the effects of ppus drastically as they can no longer heal someone to full with just 1 pop =p. oh and also dumb down the foreign cast protection of buffs just a little more.
But peopel will now B&W (bitch and whine) about how useless ppus r. HEres a few things ppus will still be sexy for: DBing, Combat/Resist Boosting, Parashock (i hate this too but i dunt think kk will ever remove it).
in any combat situation combat/resist boosting is prime. And while most people dunt notice but DBing in any fight WILL turn the tables.
Paper Dragon
20-01-06, 21:41
Yeah, yeah, we've heard it all before. It's PPUs, not Monks as a whole, that are the problem. We get it already.
As a side-note: Psionics != Magic.
Scanner Darkly
20-01-06, 21:48
As a side-note: Psionics != Magic.
But I think Kame might be referring to the effect and feel of psi-modules, which is not dissimilar to spells or 'magic'. I think we all know the background on monks and spells and this doesn't have to be restated every time someone complains about monks/psi...
Bishop Yutani
20-01-06, 21:48
Kame
Good point, i never really thought of it that way. Its not the PPUs or APUs or anything, its just the simple fact that this game pretty much requires magic.
Agreed, it is kinda odd for a "cyberpunk" game.
Paper Dragon
20-01-06, 21:51
But I think Kame might be referring to the effect and feel of psi-modules, which is not dissimilar to spells or 'magic'. I think we all know the background on monks and spells and this doesn't have to be restated every time someone complains about monks/psi...
If they can keep restating the complaint, I can restate the answer. ;)
awkward silence
20-01-06, 21:55
KKs advertising being misleading:
Now as i recall it, when i joined this game, i never envisioned myself making a monk.
Why ? Simply because i never tought we really NEEDED em.
The cover, the ads, the site... (apart from the forums) nothing was telling me I was geting myself into a cyberpunk-you-need-a-spell game.
My point is this : You need 'magic' for EVERYTHING in this godamn game.
This 'magic' has become so important to be competitive in the game its not even funny, everywhere you go you see/hear ppl casting SPELLS !!!
Guns arent even competitive, half of em sucks for PvP, especially when compared to magic. It seems to me like guns are more and more becoming a 'support' class.
This 'magic' is killing the magic of the game. Period.
As i said before I never envisioned myself needing the spells so much.
The way this game is going is wrong, it shows something (ads) thats not even realistic of the game really is going these days.
Utimately, i fell this : Fuck Holy spells. theres 3 lvs of PSI spells and we only really need 2 for pvp : basic, and blessed.
I mean a blessed APU/PPU can take most classes.
Im sick of magic.
signed :(
Everytime someone makes a thread with the word monk in it..
Somewhere in the world..
A child cries.
Kame
Good point, i never really thought of it that way. Its not the PPUs or APUs or anything, its just the simple fact that this game pretty much requires magic.
Agreed, it is kinda odd for a "cyberpunk" game.
I have to agree.
Yeah, yeah, we've heard it all before. It's PPUs, not Monks as a whole, that are the problem. We get it already.
As a side-note: Psionics != Magic.
1. It actually IS monks as a whole. Look at opwars or just pvp in general. It's monks. PPUs overpowering APUs. Especially in OPwars. And everywhere else.
2. Actually i agree there, i've never seen psi as some sort of magic.
Mighty Max
20-01-06, 22:52
There is a word i'd call to that idea, but i'll stay with the description:
Practices, and institutions that discriminate against people based on their perceived or ascribed "race".
We don't need ingame genozide, k thx bye
What the hell are you talking about?
It's not like in-game genocide of the monks would be a disgusting act or anything =/
"Kthxbye" has been recently proven to be a major factor in the cause of retardedness in old-age by the way.
tank are cool they need a boost now in damage to keep up with the rest of the classes and that would help them alot in op wars as well and they need to make holy S and holy heal LESS effective
Mighty Max
20-01-06, 23:48
It's not like in-game genocide of the monks would be a disgusting act or anything =/
No? I guess the there is no one playing a monk atm so you are not banning a group of players from the game :rolleyes:
Glad it's not up to you to tell me what class i have to play.
awkward silence
20-01-06, 23:50
There is a word i'd call to that idea, but i'll stay with the description:
Practices, and institutions that discriminate against people based on their perceived or ascribed "race".
We don't need ingame genozide, k thx bye
Saying that with a no more elves sig!
While i dont want elves id prefer one over a ppu. GenoCide? Its a game...
Oh and i doubt anyone is or was telling you what to play. But the fact remains that either you (when on a monk) are or have an overpowered buttplug.
kthxlikewhatever
Mighty Max
20-01-06, 23:57
Don't think you understood the NME campaign.
The monk is as much an fancy little elve as the tank is a happy smiling gnome.
And iirc the elve is a bowyer in the Arcade. BAN THE PISTOL PE's for their BOW!
Dont forget monks hav some good toys :)
Truesight sanctum
Holy Anti Buffs
Anti Para
Anti DB
DB
Holy Rezz
Holy Thunder Storm
alot of good stuff most of us love in PvM and PvP :D
no Dont ban my Xbow i want to get one soon as i over cap my PE
its a damn pain to lvl Pes dex and i think i deserve that gun if am able to use :)
if anything thay should let u slot it
..........................
My point is this : You need 'magic' for EVERYTHING in this godamn game.
This 'magic' has become so important to be competitive in the game its not even funny, everywhere you go you see/hear ppl casting SPELLS !!!
....................... This 'magic' is killing the magic of the game. Period.
Im sick of magic.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
- Arthur C. Clarke
Yes its all about monks and monks only, but the sad fact is that no one really cares about it.
KK are just as its community... /self edit - sorry but i cant think of anything good in this matter/, so the fanboy's mentality is the only expectable behaviour here. Fucking sad.
Well put by the threadstarter. I never looked at it that way until now. I do remember the first reading of the manual that gentanks were not at all developed in their PSI skills... but you still see then casting in combat. You put it correctly that it's the most common sound you hear. I never noticed it before now.. then it dawned on me... i never notice it because i hear it so damn often, my brain just blots it out.
First sign of trouble, you say you yourself (or on vent) "Did i hear somebody casting just then?" You spot enemies in the distance when you see them causing this magical circle of light to appear around them. You know you've stumbled upon an opwar because you see these white spiky things penetrating the night sky like a great big faulty searchlight.
So what do we do?
Limit spells to the monk classes only? Replace PE / spy / tank spells with drugs that have the same effect? Boost medikits?
Bugs Gunny
21-01-06, 01:56
Boosting classes is NOT the answer, if you do it soon we'll have 255/255 mobs in places like mc5 to "compensate".
read the history of NC then think about what you said in the first post, if you didnt read before you got the game then.....
Monks have allways been a main part of NC, history tells you that aswell, if you dont want spells go play Planetside, no PPUs there :lol:
No? I guess the there is no one playing a monk atm so you are not banning a group of players from the game :rolleyes:
Glad it's not up to you to tell me what class i have to play.
You're treating it as if it's a crime. That's what I'm saying. Step into the light dude, open the curtains.
/edit -
Jesus christ guys, I don't give a monkeys if monks have always been in the game. I'm not saying they must removed.. LIGHTEN UP IT'S A GAME. Stop going at people just because they say something which goes against your precious Neocron history or your precious monks.. These forums can make people come across as right asses.
I think, personally, that 3 lv of PSI stuff is too much.
-Remove Monk PA skill bonus
-Remove holy spell and make all non available holy spells available in blessed.
-Blessed PPU should be the highest, but the 'foreign' effect reducing the power of the spell should be removed.
-Rare spells should still be in game, but made hard as hell to cap by the lack of bonus on PA.
-PSI implants should do a HUGE negative to their opposite.
(i.e. psi attack 3 -50 ppu)
-Reduce certain mob's configuration. (DoY assault unit,MC5 staff,juggernaut WB,Y troopers, anarchy breed) Let guards and copbots do as much damage as right now, that would make them uber and thats the level they need to have.
You asked for an answer, all i have is this.
Now you guys can discuss about the pros and cons of my vision.
Hmm, lemon, KK openly admited there was a monk problem.
:angel:
Well put by the threadstarter. I never looked at it that way until now. I do remember the first reading of the manual that gentanks were not at all developed in their PSI skills... but you still see then casting in combat. You put it correctly that it's the most common sound you hear. I never noticed it before now.. then it dawned on me... i never notice it because i hear it so damn often, my brain just blots it out.
First sign of trouble, you say you yourself (or on vent) "Did i hear somebody casting just then?" You spot enemies in the distance when you see them causing this magical circle of light to appear around them. You know you've stumbled upon an opwar because you see these white spiky things penetrating the night sky like a great big faulty searchlight.
So what do we do?
Limit spells to the monk classes only? Replace PE / spy / tank spells with drugs that have the same effect? Boost medikits?
It hit me a couple of months after I started playing. There was a bunch of us, no monks levelling somewhere. Abandoned Tsunami, I think. It was pretty hard fighting, but at one point I stopped because I couldnt hear anything over the constant noise and it shocked me. What was this overpowering, dominating noise? The rattle of gunfire? Then discharge of energy weapons? Nope, it was the constant sound of about five people continually casting spells. Ever since then, even more so since I saw the critical thing about defence was nothing to do with con, all to do with psi ability, then I though something was wrong. I've actually come to quite enjoy playing monks, but I unquestionably think that psi should - A be less "magical", more TK/TP etc and B farrr, far less dominant in the game. Psi skills are the critical factor in this game...
Examine a perfectly avergage class. They cap at 60 in every skill. Feasible? It would be horribly overpowered. Not because 60 str od dex or con or int togehter are a problem. But because using dex or str 60 (+ imps) weapons, in addition to the nigh--on unkillability that blessed buffs gives you is excessive. Theres something wrong when ONE subskill of five, that is only the primary of one class is dominant. Theres something wrong when the warzones of a psot-apoc world are dominated by Thunderbolt spells and guys in cloaks.
I think it wouldn't be a bad idea if monks went back to the way they were before the big specialization patch (137?) in NC 1, and were just tweeked down a little bit.
Stop going at people just because they say something which goes against your precious Neocron history or your precious monks.. These forums can make people come across as right asses.
Right now you, with your caustic comments & thinly veiled insults, are comming accross as one of the biggest. :rolleyes:
buff up the guns dmg bya few % and lower monk con
Right now you, with your caustic comments & thinly veiled insults, are comming accross as one of the biggest.
They're hardly caustic and calling them thinly veiled is an understatement. They're meant to be.
Just stating in my own special way that some people jump to the insult gun as soon as someone says something they don't like. When half the time they don't realise not everyone takes games as seriously as them.
I try to be patient with them. But no. They bitch. Bitching is contageous.
The end.
Clive tombstone
21-01-06, 05:49
I feel like bein an ass right now, soo lets bring "majik" to "Psionics"
Example a Mage (cerka early 90's)
http://www.rose-hulman.edu/~meiserpn/black%20mage.PNG
cute little fella huh? Nice holy lightning too
And the form we all know and love...
http://www.neocronicle.com/wp-content/Selensil.jpg
No lightning, but hey, he's in a safe zone =P.
conclusions, In the future, mages deamed pointy hats ineffective :lol:
Just force a name change for all Monks to Magical Trevor (http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/magical+trevor/).
Job done.
Mighty Max
21-01-06, 11:17
When half the time they don't realise not everyone takes games as seriously as them.
No i'm not taking the game serious, but i'm treating the tries to remove me(my fun) from a game as serious.
I try to be patient with them. But no. They bitch. Bitching is contageous.
The end.
oO. I was just rephrasing the things the threadstarter and another thread said with descriptions how they would appear in an encyclopedia. If you feel embrassed when you are confronted with what this idea really is ...
So beside trying to flame, you should start trying to not ignore your subliminal realisation.
awkward silence
21-01-06, 11:27
Just force a name change for all Monks to Magical Trevor (http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/magical+trevor/).
Job done.
Salad fingers ROCKS!
Logan_storm_03
21-01-06, 12:52
Well.. ..once i get my account sorted im rolling an rifle/heavy combat PE with either no points in ppu and loads in resist psi(lol) or in apu. and stay 100% in character for RP purposes, and then look longingly at the Anarchy Breed Faction.
I'm going to be pimp-0-matic. :cool:
P.s. It kinda reminds me of my first ever neocron character, when I didn't have a clue. Though i had one gimped char. It sure as hell was a fun time.
WTB shit load of medies cheap!
lol, From the looks of things you still don't have a clue. Resist Psi is an obsolete skill, therefore enjoy wasting your skill points. Speaking of gimped characters... your PE will most certainly be one. Welcome back to Neocron anyway. :)
Logan_storm_03
21-01-06, 13:14
looks like you the first person so far to miss the point of it.. thanks anyway lol. but i never really left. :p
The only classes that rely on psi is monks every class i play i barely use my psi except maybe the skill buffs . And this is on a melee tank (90% of the time i dont bother with basic resist or deflector) droner i never buff anything but a basic spy buff when im running to and from a place , my pe driver pistol never uses buffs (dont need em in a rhino) . Personally i think you are overreacting to psionics in the game . I hardly ever use a ppu to level and the only time i would really welcome one is in PVP which i dont do much as of yet .
Logan_storm_03
21-01-06, 14:40
PVP which i dont do much as of yet .
thats why you dont understand. ;)
So beside trying to flame, you should start trying to not ignore your subliminal realisation.
So Mr. Smarty-Pants, care to take a venture at what you just said? I don't think it's possible to 'ignore subliminal realisation'.. Kind of contradictory, don't you think?
Mighty Max
21-01-06, 16:39
Sure i can, but i hoped you'd understood it in the first place.
You are recognizing that the things are said are not good (you compared it to crime) this might have been intuitively (subliminal) that is on it's way to aware understandment (realisation). You seem somehow trying to not let that be (ignore) and rather flame out louder to keep the voice silent.
So if you got further questions about chosen words ask away.
Yet i think it would be much more interesting why you want to ban all players that have a different (not loved by you) way to play. I'm sure you got some real good reason which tells me why playing a monk is evil and why we all should stop immediatly.
That is completely not what your previous statement said. Just because you replace the words doesn't make it the same thing.
Since your previous statement didn't make any sense.
It wouldn't apply to me even if it did.
This is my quote. Read what you are bitching about. Does it really make any sense now you read what I said again?
What the hell are you talking about?
It's not like in-game genocide of the monks would be a disgusting act or anything =/
"It's not like in-game genocide of the monks would be a disgusting act"
Does that really sound like "I want to ban you all from playing monks because I don't want you to play them."
I think you read what you wanted to read to be honest.
Mighty Max
21-01-06, 17:12
That is completely not what your previous statement said. Just because you replace the words doesn't make it the same thing.
oO. Shall i cut out the two statements and do a word by word comparison? I thought i'd explained it now in relatively easy words. I guess I'm not good in teaching the unwilling
Since your previous statement didn't make any sense.
It wouldn't apply to me even if it did.
At this point we are back to the statement: Ignoring.
This is my quote. Read what you are bitching about. Does it really make any sense now you read what I said again?
"It's not like in-game genocide of the monks would be a disgusting act"
Does that really sound like "I want to ban you all from playing monks because I don't want you to play them."
I think you read what you wanted to read to be honest.
You know context if a strong part of a post:
1. You posted this n a thread that asks for removement of psi abilities ("Im sick of magic")
2. Remove all Monks ("http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=131797) where you posted too "To be honest, I really wouldn't mind if that happened ;)"
Together with that one post of you, yes you are wanting Monks removed. Or you just don't know what you write.
But well, let the next try to swap words come in.
Nice reading skills you have there. It says "Remove APU's entirely from PvP"
Did you get that?
I'll type it again "Remove APU's entirely from PvP"
That wouldn't be remove them from game, right? Since when did OP say this thread was about the removal of monks? He just stated his opinion that he doesn't like that this game is so heavily dependant on psionic abilities. But lets not drag him into this.
"But well, let the next try to swap words come in."
:rolleyes:
Dropped yourself in the shit there didn't ya?
You're so desperate to win here, it seems you can't recognise a joke when you see one? "To be honest, I really wouldn't mind if that happened ;) "
What the hell do you think the wink was for?
I'm not going to keep bumping this thread with our useless bullshit, since no one else is posting here. Shut up and let this thread die. If you can leave an argument without posting the last comment that is.. Lets just wait and see..
Let me do you both a favour and put this at an end. Believe me when I say that you will soon see a major opportunity for balancing the game, possibility the biggest since beta, so just hang on a little and wait for the announcement.
N
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