View Full Version : Whats the crack with new SL rules then.
RogerRamjet
19-01-06, 22:31
Ok, why on earth do i lose soullight for killing an enemy, not even in a lvling zone? This is getting stupid. Why should i lose SL for killing someone im at war with?
Not only that, i dont even gain pro city sympathy (i need to go Tangent bad, but thats not the point).
Also, what -SL do the cockbots attack at now, since i can go all the way down to -60 odd.
New SL rules are a bit harsh. KK shouldve kept em the way they were and then started working on a complete revamp including flags for people attacking first so you can fight back without being fucked.
About SL, i think it's -32 now. Not sure though.
And why tangent? Mars? I'm TT already :p Nearly capped str aswell, just need more con...and i still cant pvp on tanks. :(
Oh, some guy whose name i forgot was asking for you cause he needs some spell back on mars. LVA or so. I forgot.
RogerRamjet
20-01-06, 10:03
Yeh TVA, he dropped his group heal on the floor and logged off, lol, he's got it back now.
I like the SL rules in dungeons but I can't say I'm a big fan of some of the other zone rules. :/
I like the SL rules in dungeons but I can't say I'm a big fan of some of the other zone rules. :/
Theyre stupid. Why cant i gank my sworn enemy in some random cave miles away from any cop without consequences? Inside he's my friend, outside he's my enemy? Stupid shit. Carebear rules. If people want to level in peace, they can keep their LE. That should do it. Not SL punishement for everyone.
Bugs Gunny
20-01-06, 11:53
Want cahnge? Enforce it.
Go with an allied unle'd alt to "level" there. Don't get in team, get in the aoe and die.
Go back with gankteam and harvest the belts.
Oh and CM realy needs a fix bad. There's a -99sl cm apu at th, probably waiting afk for a week before he can kill a person again.
Scaramanga
20-01-06, 12:26
It's a shame that you cant avoid sl loss from killing a runner with yellow soul light like you used to be able to.
And yes, CM definitely need working on. They can't get their soullight back up by exploiting the sl given by enemy faction npcs like all other factions can, regardless of npc rank.
It's also a big shame that the "flag" system hasnt been introduced, it would stop so much griefplay, and allow more pvp imo.
As for the dungeon ganksquad sl trap, I'd love to hear a good fix for that one.
Bugs Gunny
20-01-06, 12:35
There is no fix for it.
Before the last patch it was even worse.
But hey, all that stuff must have been thought out with a thinktank team before they implemented, so i'm sure KK has no problem with us doing the dungeon ganksquad as it is the first thing that comes to mind when you analyze the new rules.
The ONLY way you'll level in peace is to keep the le in. It's not that hard.
Last night i got a bunch of shit from a pe that i killed.
He claimed i had killed him as a noobie leveling.
Well, that pe had no le in and was wearing camo pa.
I remember the days when i was leveling as a /27 rifle spy without an le, and so was everyone else on saturn. Getting killed was part of it. There were people and clans you looked out for.
These days it seems like people are even upset when they get killed by an enemy when they are out there in the wastes on a capped no le combatchar.
I like the new since you can level with enemies unled without getting ganked. :D
RogerRamjet
20-01-06, 12:59
Theyre stupid. Why cant i gank my sworn enemy in some random cave miles away from any cop without consequences? Inside he's my friend, outside he's my enemy? Stupid shit. Carebear rules. If people want to level in peace, they can keep their LE. That should do it. Not SL punishement for everyone.
Precisely. Surely the city should be pleased about you killing an enemy.
If you want to gank in caves, join the team first, then gank them. No hacking needed either, and no SL penalty either...
Back in NC1 there was a common problem with (Say) TG tanks killing CA/TT/BT/PP/DRE/Next runners in the aggie pits. I had my LE out becuase I got more XP, more money and access to the better guns sooner.
When you leveled, not only did you have to worry about staying alive in the aggie cellars, you also live in fear that a TG tank could come and kill you at any moment, and you loose your gun. The number of times I just escaped death was numerous.
Of course there was a community outcry about PK'ing so KK did something about it.
Edit: Yeah I agree I should be able to gank enermies where I want to, but generally I advoid PK'ing in caves.
Bugs Gunny
20-01-06, 13:03
I like the new since you can level with enemies unled without getting ganked. :D
from MMORPG -> MMO(RP)G -> (M)MOG -> "The virtual world chatbox where you can design your appartement"
RogerRamjet
20-01-06, 13:06
As someone said, if you dont wanna be PKed keep your LE in. You should be able to kill your enemies anywhere, even if it is (sadly) in the aggie cellars.
Bugs Gunny
20-01-06, 13:21
Been to the aggie cellars twice on my bd pe. Both times it was full of le'd runners leveling.
So are the 0/10 runners smarter than the **/60's?
I think so.
Precisely. Surely the city should be pleased about you killing an enemy.
Think about it from another point of view.
Any faction or govermnement has to take care about propaganda and their public image. E.g Twilight Gardian who's lauding Freedom and struggling against tyranny would probably lose some credibility (therefore allies) if they became famous at slaying too much sewer-cleaning peons instead of badass reza's lieutenants.
In a more solo way of thinking a char, we could also talk about honnour, reputation, integrity ?
Now back to NC1, don't forget that F6 was quite more complicated, leveling for noobs (that have a right to join a clan before they're capped) would have been a mess. The current SL rules are inherited from this context, that's why they may have to be adapted considering every pole (antis/pros/mercs) has its own city now.
One last point, a risk of losing SL for anyone running a dungeon area gives better chances for everyone to get a leveling team.
[QUOTE=Brammers]If you want to gank in caves, join the team first, then gank them. No hacking needed either, and no SL penalty either...
[QUOTE]
Unless they leave the team after you attack ;)
Mighty Max
20-01-06, 14:46
Beside that,there was this problem already before the SL changes.
So it's not really a point against this specific SL rules, but a reminder to watch out instead of mindless XP/money grinding.
Bugs Gunny
20-01-06, 15:11
In a more solo way of thinking a char, we could also talk about honnour, reputation, integrity ?
Now that would all depend on what faction or person you are playing (if you're roleplaying).
Actualy i kill for reputation of the clan. The more people know they'll have to spend 15 minutes out of leveling, getting poked gring back and forth and losing a belt, the more likely they'll pay up the 50k we ask to let them live.
Honnour? Is there still honour in neocron? Read trade, OOC. It's all about who kills who first. I've given belts back to people whom i thought fought well, i've gotten stuff returned in the same fashion. That's about as honorable as it'll get in nc.
Integrity? I had a discussion last night with someone about ganking my old clanmates in leveling zones. Well i stay in character, i'll mow old clanmates and friends down without remorse and they know it.
On the other hand i'll be there in TH on another alt, handing them out spells, drugs, money or weapons if they need it.
The fact is that old NC1 was more open to roleplay, had more pvp and less people who whined for hours about a bloody ENEMY killing them (sure you allways had the "omg you killed my 0/8 in si" people).
You know, in those days you just got angry, started leveling and got even.
Nowadays they go suck up with the devteam and ask for implementation of totaly idiotic zone and sl rules.
If this trend continues we may yet see the day that killing a neutral or allied gives you -99sl in any zone and there will be no other way to raise it but sit it off in TH.
Mighty Max
20-01-06, 15:24
Honnour? Is there still honour in neocron? Read trade, OOC. It's all about who kills who first. I've given belts back to people whom i thought fought well, i've gotten stuff returned in the same fashion. That's about as honorable as it'll get in nc.
Yes, there is. Just because there is someone worse then you doesn't make you look like an angel, killing in leveling zones.
The fact is that old NC1 was more open to roleplay, had more pvp and less people who whined for hours about a bloody ENEMY killing them (sure you allways had the "omg you killed my 0/8 in si" people).
You were playing either another game, been a pretty noob or have a memory loss.
Paper Dragon
20-01-06, 15:29
"If you don't want to be killed, keep your LE in."
Well, if you don't want to lose SL, go and actually hunt people outside the Dungeon zones. ;)
Scaramanga
20-01-06, 15:33
"If you don't want to be killed, keep your LE in."
Well, if you don't want to lose SL, go and actually hunt people outside the Dungeon zones. ;)
Tsk, you'll be telling them not to attack allies next :eek:
Paper Dragon
20-01-06, 15:34
Tsk, you'll be telling them not to attack allies next :eek:
I know! Common sense is a shocking concept! :eek:
Bugs Gunny
20-01-06, 15:38
I played saturn, where trade and ooc were a file pit of cowdung.
Now that was a badboy atmosphere , and yes, in those days i got ganked over and over and over and over....
Thing is, i just thought "SHIT!", got poked and moved on.
Then at the start of NC2 everyone was so geared up to go red vs blue that i got carried into it too.
Read my posts from back then, and you'll see i was one of the worst.
(Part of it being me roleplaying a CA official has to do with it too)
Then all of a sudden it dawned on me. Without the "evil" on the server, how boring it would be. Log on, gr to leveling spot, click the barrelbutton for two hours, gr to th get armor fixed go to another meaningless opwar where you know the op will get ninjahacked while you're asleep.....
You may all complain about the evil black dragon pkers, but i honestly feel that we contribute to the atmosphere on Terra.
Yes, there should be danger around every corner. Pepper park is no longer a safe place. We'll sell you drugs, we'll extort you, we'll kill you to rob your belt if you're not a BD.
(EDIT) And no i don't care about SL loss personaly, it's just the direction KK is going with all these changes. As long as i can fix my sl i'll do it. If they take away that option, i'll make a red sl char, make the others lose sl by running in the aoe with an alt, then go down hack the belts and live with red sl untill i'm out of money and resources.
who cares about sl hit?....piff...
just kill the enemy in the caves. i did - i will do.
sl hits still needs work badly.
"If you don't want to be killed, keep your LE in."
Well, if you don't want to lose SL, go and actually hunt people outside the Dungeon zones. ;)
You have to admit that near-to-death ennemy runners hiding in dungeon zones (e.g pp3 construction facility) to heal and buff (eventually take drugs) remains annoying.
But maybe is it a necessary weakness of those rules.
Paper Dragon
20-01-06, 15:49
You have to admit that near-to-death ennemy runners hiding in dungeon zones (e.g pp3 construction facility) to heal and buff (eventually take drugs) remains annoying.
But maybe is it a necessary weakness of those rules.
Zone line whoring happens everywhere, unfortunately.
I don't think I need to elaborate on the crap that Pepper Park was responsible for.
Bugs Gunny
20-01-06, 15:52
Yeah, i'd like to know which Einstein came up with the notion that NON-led runners would be leveling in the construction facility and those other jones places.....
RogerRamjet
20-01-06, 16:58
I know! Common sense is a shocking concept! :eek:
No one mentioned killing allies.
The point of this thread was to point on some glaring and ridiclous inconsistencies in the game. Two sides are at war, but when one side kills the other they get punished?
Mighty Max
20-01-06, 17:18
Leveling & Dungeon Zones are for leveling / questing.
You got hundrets of zones dedicated to PvP.
Roleplay stops where the "roleplay" starts killing the fun for everyone but one. I.e. one capped char emptying aggi cellars.
The so often called "but thats making them want to take revenge" is plain stupid imho. That is only the case for a few, and not when you do it regulary on them. It rather makes them stop playing or ganking other noob, as they learn from you that they will allways be ganked if they dont do the same.
Additional, does the current SL hit not help on the way to find fights? Not from the leveling one, but from the ones that see the bad guy and take the revenge for the victim. But maybe you feel to weak to take these fights.
Anyone thought of what soullight actually means?
Soul.Light. How light your soul is. If you're Soullight is low, it's dark. Meaning you're evil/bad. You're evil/bad because you killed people.
Not sure what side of the argument that supports. Not even sure if it's a useful comment. I just don't think many people understood that.
Leveling & Dungeon Zones are for leveling / questing.
You got hundrets of zones dedicated to PvP.
Roleplay stops where the "roleplay" starts killing the fun for everyone but one. I.e. one capped char emptying aggi cellars.
The so often called "but thats making them want to take revenge" is plain stupid imho. That is only the case for a few, and not when you do it regulary on them. It rather makes them stop playing or ganking other noob, as they learn from you that they will allways be ganked if they dont do the same.
Additional, does the current SL hit not help on the way to find fights? Not from the leveling one, but from the ones that see the bad guy and take the revenge for the victim. But maybe you feel to weak to take these fights.You sound like the carebear that was me ages ago.
I feel ashamed. :lol:
The LE should be the only thing to prevent ganking. Not stupid zone rules.
Mighty Max
20-01-06, 17:53
The LE should be the only thing to prevent ganking. Not stupid zone rules.
Sure, but it isnt in any way. PvM Clans are impossible. A PvMer has to live alone atm. And the first thing noob's get told when they arrive in MC5 is to remove the LE. Reimplanting the LE after beeing 30 (when you didn't sell the LE as a noob) is impossible. Good thing that at least the epic is now possible without PvP so that someone with a clue can now actually play that way.
But then, the one that demanded the LE changes are the ones now crying that the SL hits are too harsh.
And yes, I'm a carebear, and im proud of me. I got non-LE leveled chars on Neptune, where everyone else was leveling with LE till capped. Yet i refuse to do any PvP in leveling zones on the normal servers because the players are there for a reason other then to PvP.
Bugs Gunny
20-01-06, 18:00
Make them all safezones and restrict pvp to neofrag.
I got non-LE leveled chars on Neptune, where everyone else was leveling with LE till capped.
Don't bullshit tbh.
We at Neptune, the 'regulars' (if I could be classed as a regular, since I don't play much at all) know that there arn't many people who level with LE in now. There is certainly almost no one who has LE in at cap. I can't think of anyone that does.
Of course there are some who level with LE in, there always are, but stop putting the server down.
No more mention of the word Neptune. It does my head in.
Make them all safezones and restrict pvp to neofrag.
Fuck it remove all weapons and lets just hold hands and tradeskill :)
Bugs Gunny
20-01-06, 20:15
Fuck it remove all weapons and lets just hold hands and tradeskill :)
And then go admire each others appartements with the trophy collection.
Mighty Max
20-01-06, 21:00
Don't bullshit tbh.
We at Neptune, the 'regulars' (if I could be classed as a regular, since I don't play much at all) know that there arn't many people who level with LE in now.
Did you read that 'was' ? I know that the left few are mostly unLE'd. As i'm still one of them and on a regular base. Now just find out who :p
Yet when Pandore went Neptune, it had more LE'd then any other server ever saw.
So i don't want Neptun to be dead as it is, but it's only a smelling corpse everytime you look onto the playercounts. :edit: It failed because most of our PvP scene is not as strong as their mouth. (Taking out the 'regulars') See Bugs Gunney & co above. Strong in their word, but can't stand a SL hit in leveling zones. *shruggs*
Anyone thought of what soullight actually means?
Soul.Light. How light your soul is. If you're Soullight is low, it's dark. Meaning you're evil/bad. You're evil/bad because you killed people.
Not sure what side of the argument that supports. Not even sure if it's a useful comment. I just don't think many people understood that.
ok now your getting into the morality philosophical grounds and I cant pass this up to rip you a new one.
You do know that this is a war right? and you do know that according to each side, the other's values are reversed? that is to anti, a pro killing is "evil" while an anti killing is "good"; and vice versa.
I understand your comment but you dunt seem to understand that your comment doesnt mean anything as (assuming there IS an absolute moderator) you failed to specify whos this middleman that tells you good vs. evil.
OT: I agree completely with bugs and OP tho; i mean christ sake man if you get ganked BIG FRICKEN WOOP! either go level elsewhere or go back and fight! I mean shit when i first started way back when I didnt have an LE at /02 and I got ganked god knows how many times in the lowbie sewers, aggies, etc. But I lvled smarter, knew who to look out for, and at cap I hunted them down... (and now i've friends with those people... dunt ask me how that happened >_<)
with that said I believe kk should take the initiative on this and really make the FS system something worthwhile, i.e. while the zone rules are good, they should only set restrictions on friendly and neutral party pks. There should be NO rules on enemies; i.e. "dungeon zone - blah blah killing friendly and neutral runners will result in large SL penalties and lost of sympathy". Just dont mention anythign about enemies. I mean fuck man ITS AN ENEMY! the game is set in a war! What do you do at war to your enemies? you kill!
and dont gimmie that newbpk line in terms of enemies. While i personnaly dunt like pking people while they're leveling, I'm not against it as its a choice. Furthermore newbies are akin to the children and nonservice-men of a nation in a time of war. Now name for me any ANY modern war in which the populace has EVER been spared? Yeah didnt think so. You know why? because back in the civil war, Sherman set the precedence that destroying and killing the civilian support will end a war much sooner than simply destroying the military (the later only generates more support for the country by the citizens as well as creates martyrs which further creates more fanatical opposition to the invading forces).
(ok yeah im bored this morning so i've been making long posts sue me.)
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