View Full Version : TC Rifles
Besides the SH... why do they suck? Disruptor is the only one even remotely worth using. Compared to the slasher it sucks tbh. The First Love reloads every 5 shots and misses for absolutely no reason whatsoever. The Healing Light ... is bugged or something. It seems to hit but it doesn't. To top it off, besides the Disruptor, all tc rifles eat stamina like candy. And they all reduce runspeed! Their range is limited by 2 things: clipping plane and the way the aiming system works.
Now TC Pistols... Long range, no runspeed reduction, no stamina loss, they do MORE DAMAGE. :(
Since when is healing light bugged or useless O_o
Since when is healing light bugged or useless O_o
He prolly mean that you hit but do so low dmg, and when you hit again, you do the samedmg, but if you hit him time after time you get more dmg.
:wtf:
The Healing Light is about the only TC rare that's improved since it's inception.
It *is* bugged, but mostly in advantageous ways - it's certainly not useless.
As for the rest ... yes ...
The Ray of God has been nerfed to buggery, the Thunderstorm is just a sick joke (even with the recent patch changes), the Redeemer is utterly pointless without AoE, the Silent Hunter has many, *many* aggravating issues (see my threads passim), First Love is only useful for making a light show, not a hope of actually hitting anything consistently.
The Disruptor is just a waste of inventory space these days, with it's rate of fire sledgehammer nerfed down to the same as the Healing Light. The extra skill points needed to cap it at it's TechLevel are a total waste of time.
I agree with your point about rifles versus pistols - there's currently not sufficient differentiation between their capabilities. The penalties for (supposedly) gaining range capabilities are just too much, considering the mechanics of how the engine works.
Scanner Darkly
02-01-06, 03:18
:wtf:
I agree with your point about rifles versus pistols - there's currently not sufficient differentiation between their capabilities. The penalties for (supposedly) gaining range capabilities are just too much, considering the mechanics of how the engine works.
Actually since evo 2.1 the scope on a SH seems to actually work. Now you can zoom to way beyond range visible with a naked eye and hit people. I and a friend tested this just after evo 2.1 came out. Not sure how other rifles with ADDED scope have changed, but at least in some instances the range of rifles is very useful indeed.
Healing light and SH work just fine, the others I haven't used since NC1...
Ios - Terra
02-01-06, 03:48
the Redeemer is utterly pointless without AoE
AoE on Redeemer would bring the weapon back to life, I totally agree.
Actually since evo 2.1 the scope on a SH seems to actually work. Now you can zoom to way beyond range visible with a naked eye and hit people. I and a friend tested this just after evo 2.1 came out. Not sure how other rifles with ADDED scope have changederm ... I have to disagree here.
There are 3 main issues we are dealing with. Draw distance, clipping plane and `effective range'.
The only one of the three that's changed in any regard at all is draw distance, and that only for terrain related objects (i.e. anything that's not a runner or a mob).
There is a *very* slight increase on the level of detail rendered on scope zoomed objects.
You can't see and can't hit targetted runners/mobs 1 millimetre further away than you could in NC2.0 (or, indeed NC1)
I use Silent Hunter and a scoped Healing Light day in, day out.
Trust me on this ;)
the HL sometimes appears to hit but doesn't actually do anything. It's most noticable against very fast players... but it's really annoying. I've ended fights where it looks like I hit with every shot but not a single red number floated above their head.
Being a `stacked burst bonus` type weapon the actual dmg per shot that you see on your client's side tends to get scrambled quite often.
Sometimes you'll see no numbers floating up, but suddenly after a couple of seconds delay their health bar drops from 100% to, say, 50% in one lump. The more consecutive on-target hits you string together the more pronounced the effect is.
Another common one is to see, say, 10-12-10-10-14-130, or just 10-12-10-10-14, but the enemy has 200 drop off their health their client side.
I've not not noticed many situations where no dmg is registered *at all*, their clientside or yours (well - no more than any other line of sight weapon with the current netcode/object clipping issues)
Do you suffer a lot from netcode issues in general ?
The Pain Easer is still cool :D
I don't think they are nerfed that much if at all guys.
Koshin I'm talking about FL/dissruptor.
I use the FL fine and without a problem. In what ways does it suck?
Kurai, the dissruptor is sledgehammer nerfed in what way? how?
Dissruptor doesnt eat up stamina and FL eats very little. In many ways i prefer using a FL over a dissruptor, particularly closed places. HL i dont use anyway, but it still has to be the best in sniping. The SH works fine now it has its range increased, and if you can accept its slow load/fire its fine as well.
There's a *reason* that it's only once in a blue moon you will ever see a serious combat specced character give a First Love a quickbelt space.
It has a ludicrously poor accuracy rate, even totally capped, at point blank range, with a fully closed reticle, on a static target.
In addition it has too small a clip size, weight is excessive (when you consider all the ammo you need to lug around too) and eats too much stamina - a considerable amount more than the laser weapons (you'll note that's the major malus of Spy PA, so we dont have a lot to play with in the first place).
If you ignore the surprise value from the impressive light and noise show, it actually doesn't do a whole fuck of a lot worthwhile :D
The Disruptor was heavily nerfed by having it's rate of fire chopped to 75% - from 222 down to 170 shots per minute.
Considering that it's damage per shot is only 5% more than the HL, and that it only gets 8 bursts from an ammo pack rather than 12 like the Healing Light and it misses shots more often (not nearly as much as the FL tho) it's overall damage per minute is *significantly* lower
... *and* you need a greater investment in skill points. O_o
I just can't find a compelling reason to lug either one around in place of a Healing Light.
Oh - and in regard to the Silent Hunter ... it's range has *not* been increased - either in raw stat value or in effect.
Hope that answers your questions ;)
kurai, can we test some pvp using those rifles please?
we will try everything.
either im too mistaken or you may miss out something. damagewise i will only say that having a gun emptying its clip fast is an advantage. its DoT afterall, therefore the less time it takes the better the rifle. i might be missing something or not being an expert here, but i still cant figure out which is best: FL or dissie. lets test them both and the rest as well
kurai, can we test some pvp using those rifles please?
we will try everything.
either im too mistaken or you may miss out something. damagewise i will only say that having a gun emptying its clip fast is an advantage. its DoT afterall, therefore the less time it takes the better the rifle. i might be missing something or not being an expert here, but i still cant figure out which is best: FL or dissie. lets test them both and the rest as wellSure - I'd be up for that.
With the FL the accuracy really is the primary issue.
All the theoretical max dmg per minute numbers don't matter a hell of a lot if only half of the shots actually connect with anything.
Added to that you will need to pause in dmg delivery for a greater proportion of that minute to reload more often.
Bugs Gunny
02-01-06, 10:04
Don't argue with kurai, he knows his shit :-)
Anyway, the rog is a bit... silly.
The FL couldn't hit a rhino if you were sitting inside it.
The healing light used to be overpowered, but they nerfed it, and there realy is a bug with it. Hit every shot, and not land one single dammagepoint.
(low fps situations and very fast running players)
The disruptor and silent hunter are the only ones worth using.
And if you realy think the disruptor is a shitty rifle, go fight spearhead sometime.
I dont argue, I also want to test them, as i use them both. not the HL however
Don't argue with kurai, he knows his shit :-) Quoted for truth.
The FL couldn't hit a rhino if you were sitting inside it.
Quite possibly the best sentence I've ever heard... ever.
The healing light used to be overpowered, but they nerfed it, and there realy is a bug with it. Hit every shot, and not land one single dammagepoint.
(low fps situations and very fast running players)
Yeah that's what I was trying to explain but I guess my words came out bad. Thanks Bugs!
The disruptor and silent hunter are the only ones worth using.
And if you realy think the disruptor is a shitty rifle, go fight spearhead sometime.
Yeah, but even then, the dissy isn't as good as a Slasher since the nerf.
yeah i too can confirm the HL problem - started (increased) since evo 2.1
OK - time for me to eat my words regarding the poor old much maligned First Love. :D
Jini has just proved to me ingame, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the First Love is now absolutely *not* the useless heap of shit it once used to be.
For down and dirty close-up in-your-face fighting it seriously 0wns now.
It will eat the Healing Light for breakfast in those sort of situations.
*Seriously*.
It's still true that beyond about 20 meters it drops off considerably, and further than that it remains *horribly* inaccurate, but even that isn't *quite* as bad as it used to be.
As far as the Disruptor goes ... I'm still not sold on the idea of carrying one around with me instead of a Healing Light ... but I think our difference of opinion there is much more down to usage style - Jini is using the Dissie as a close up fighter, I am predominantly using the HL for ranged sniping.
I concur. Only now I'm even more confident that FL is better than a dissruptor. We have also dissolved some myths floating around regarding stacking shot bonuses and also another one about burst weapons that do less damage once you shoot a black area ;) in ones body ...
So my Ultimated First Love (two slots still open) that I brought over from NC1 might be useful now?
Cool.
So my Ultimated First Love (two slots still open) that I brought over from NC1 might be useful now?
Cool.Yep.
I was especially pleased because I have a pair of ultimated all artifact laser-pointered 4 slot First Loves [one x-ray, one fire] that hold a special sentimental value for me.
I built them with my own fair hands in the very early days of NC1 retail on Pluto :D
They have been sitting forlornly in cabinets, unused, for the past 3 years waiting for the hopeful day they might actually be useful :lol:
(I left the disasterously modded experimental 5 slot scoped one behind though :o)
Anyway, the rog is a bit... silly.
It used to be cool :D
After I capped either my first or second PE in NC1, there was this time I fighting Slutsumi (Evil Ryoko) and XaNToR on their rifle PEs (I was in NCAT at the time with Slut) and they were both testing their damage out on another person. Ryoko was using a RoG and XaNToR was using a HL, both did nearly the exact same damage. The HL just winning out.
Then a patch came and the HL was boosted quite considerably (around the same time the spirit SH just came into being) and the RoG was left in place or nerfed abit. :(
Before the evo 2.x patch, the HL was the best rifle there was. In fact it was so powerfull, it was almost auto aim, it was a cheat. I sort of feeled that I was cheating using it (I was feeling much like bugs feels using a hybrid) , so i turned out to FL and dissie. I did a lot of practice to use that and now i really like the result of it. After evo patch I dunno what they did but the HL was not like it used to be
Besides the SH... why do they suck? Disruptor is the only one even remotely worth using. Compared to the slasher it sucks tbh. The First Love reloads every 5 shots and misses for absolutely no reason whatsoever. The Healing Light ... is bugged or something. It seems to hit but it doesn't. To top it off, besides the Disruptor, all tc rifles eat stamina like candy. And they all reduce runspeed! Their range is limited by 2 things: clipping plane and the way the aiming system works.
Now TC Pistols... Long range, no runspeed reduction, no stamina loss, they do MORE DAMAGE. :(
Pistols should have ranged and accuracy over range trimmed a lot. Besides that, rifles are good for what they are used for, long distance. Possible do something with the disruptor, as its 99% of the gun a HL is, with a higher tech level. The problem here is not rifles, its pistols.
To cap aiming on rifle you require a lot of weapon lore, to cap the same on a pistol you require less weapon lore. The accuracy is about the same with rifles probably a little better (Not much though).
I hate firing a SH and not hitting, this is a scoped gun, and when you have a lock then there is no way in hell you are gonna miss. I suppose the other question is, why do the bullets follow the target, and one I don't understand. U get 16 bullets and only 4 shots. So thats a 4 shot bullet and yet when u miss all the bullets miss.
(I left the disasterously modded experimental 5 slot scoped one behind though :o)Found an old screenshot of it ... :D
http://www.zen67459.zen.co.uk/random/5slotFL.jpg
A scope on a First Love. What the hell was I thinking ? O_o
Worst mod EVER ! </Comic Book Guy>
Pistols should have ranged and accuracy over range trimmed a lot. Besides that, rifles are good for what they are used for, long distance. Possible do something with the disruptor, as its 99% of the gun a HL is, with a higher tech level. The problem here is not rifles, its pistols.
To cap aiming on rifle you require a lot of weapon lore, to cap the same on a pistol you require less weapon lore. The accuracy is about the same with rifles probably a little better (Not much though).
I hate firing a SH and not hitting, this is a scoped gun, and when you have a lock then there is no way in hell you are gonna miss. I suppose the other question is, why do the bullets follow the target, and one I don't understand. U get 16 bullets and only 4 shots. So thats a 4 shot bullet and yet when u miss all the bullets miss.
The dissruptor is nowhere near a HL. The HL is a sniping rifle, while the dissruptor is a duelling rifle. one drains stamina the other doesnt. one misses the other is accurate. They are not the same rifles.
The SH is very cool but its magazine is very small. The redeemer maybe is better in that area as a sniping rifle but i have not tested it at all. The SH has a great advantage: no swirly.
The redeemer maybe is better in that area as a sniping rifle but i have not tested it at all.It *really* isn't. I promise you this.
In case you might think I was working off old info ( like the FL before), I've seen a Redeemer in action in Evo 2.1
Saw some poor guy up in MB using it, and stopped to ask him (politeley, naturally ;) ) if he was a a complete looney. He wouldn't believe the thing was crap, so I demonstrated that I could drop a Warbot with a Tangent Epic laser in about half the time it took him :D
It didn't fare any better on runners either.
Dribble Joy
03-01-06, 23:02
Pistol range needs a serious nerf, shame range and recticle lock time are so horribly interlinked.
Heavyporker
04-01-06, 00:14
Think KK could unlink range and reticle lock speed anytime soon?
Then, yeah, nerf pistol ranges.
But then you need to nerf cannon ranges, too, since quite a few can give rifles a run for their money on sniping. *cough* laser cannon pwns! *cough*
or just boost the disrupter and ease the aiming shit on the fl......and fix the other rifles maybe....
rog i remember was actually worth using, like the rolh once upon a time.
Dribble Joy
04-01-06, 01:47
I know I bang on about the skill changes all the time, but they have had a big impact on the game. There is simply no point in the RoLH, even if the dmg/time it did was in line with it's TL, the difference in setup between a RoLH and slasher/exec is minimal, and you now full cap a slasher with ease, so why use a RoLH?
I know I bang on about the skill changes all the time, but they have had a big impact on the game. There is simply no point in the RoLH, even if the dmg/time it did was in line with it's TL, the difference in setup between a RoLH and slasher/exec is minimal, and you now full cap a slasher with ease, so why use a RoLH?
because if it works... some of us like decent alternatives to the run of the mill cookie cutter setups even if they aint as high damaging as the slasher as long as they good for there tl and you could fight well with it theres alternatives....
why use any low weapons if you can go upto slasher/exe tls etc....
and i dunno i like the idea of speccing for a 107 pistol rather than a 113 one...
Dribble Joy
04-01-06, 02:49
My point was that if you create a means to get something better than something else, people will use it. I agree about singular people who want to try something different, I was kami for a long long time.
What we need is both a rework of the dmg/time and the skills.
It's nowhere near as easy to use (succesfully) a burst type weapon DJ. Rolh and Slasher are entirelly different. Different is magazines, stamina drain, usage, one can be used without drugs etc. I think alot has been done regarding pistols/rifles (new skins, woc models). I would really like KK to focus in some solution regarding the monk problem now
@kurai: too bad for the redeemer, its a cool rifle. at least its still good against pvm, maybe its time to turn it to an aoe rifle.
A capped PE with a with no TC and a Pain Easer ownes any spy with a TC rifle ;)
The RoG is the biggest joke rifle ever.
I mean a rifle that does more damage the CLOSER you get is... WRONG !!
That rifle should have uber range and should do more damage the FARTHER you get ! A bit like the Redeemer.And the Redeemer could then, do AOE.
I think it wouldnt matter if the RolH does more damage the closer you get because, those ray weapons should be the only class that have damage increase/decrease based on range.Simply because ray weapons should be the only class of weapon that does it.
The fact that the CS is more effective at long range then FL kinda bothers me. At long range there is less plasma blobs from the CS that will go stray.
Dizzy is perfectly fine, altough, i always tought its clip was weird compared to the HL clip.
Here are the facts:
-A HL clip holds 24 bullets and fire 12 shots.Ammo reduction is 2 per shot, and it indicate 3x damage on hit on mobs; it hits 3x for 2 bullets.
-A Dizzy's clip is 24 bullets, fire 8 shots.Ammo reduction is 3 per shots, and it indicates 3x damage on hit on mobs;it hits 3x for 3bullets.
Something is very weird there.Personnaly, id like to have a Dizzy that could shoot 12 times with one clip, but i think that would overpower it. Yet i dont think the HL should be nerfed in any way as it is fine and no one seems to complain about it. Exept for the missing when it looks like it hits but i think that its more aiming/lag related, rather than changed recently.
And BTW, l8m0n, this is a TC Rifle thread ... not a LowTech PE vs TC SPY thread.
I think you should start your own thread if you wanna talk about how l33t is a pain easer PE is.
wasnt trying to start a flame war, was was just pointing out that low tech rifles are much better than hightech, after nc1 they just got lame so alot of people lomed to lowtech because you cant go rong with a PE ;)
Lets face it, the rifles just dont cut the mustard or your enemies!
I have used rifles for a long time, my favorate being a scoped HL. I now dont use it at all, I have re-specced and use the TS epic rifle.
If i had a decent pistol and could be arsed to LOM to pistols I would. There just isn't the justifyable difference between pistols and rifles. Pistols do more damage and theres no run speed penalty either.
On another matter the whole monk situation is out of hand too. I am not renewing my account and neither are mates, unless something is done to sort out these inconsitancies.
The RoG doesn't need to be altered to be a different kind of weapon at all. Sure it might need tweaked but the RP technology it is made from gives it the characteristics it has more damage closer. If you want something else then suggest a new weapon altogether Kame. It would be nice to have an AoE weapon for the riflers too by altering the redeemer but I think KK is trying to stick with no AoE for riflers (were supposed to be snipers of sorts). The only problem brought on by this is that is takes Uber long to level a rifler compared to any other class. I think maybe upping the damage on the redeemer even more would be awesome. Then a rifler could go out a pwn mobs quickly to level fast as opposed to blasting AoE damage like droners and tanks and monks do. The only reason i want AoE for the Rifler is because of the inherently long time it takes to level without it. I really like the upping damage on Redeemer more than AoE. Sure it might hurt like hell when it hits another player but you would definitely know exeactly where it was comming from unlike a sniper rifler (SH)
Just realised you dont get redeemer till waaaaay late anyway so my argument about leveling is moot
(were supposed to be snipers of sorts)
Exactly my point, were supposed to be long range guys.
Why make a rifle that does more the closer you get ?
I dont think making new weapons is that good of an idea when there is rifle that we hardly ever see being used.They already have skins and everything for these, i think its easier to just change/update current weapons.
My point with the ray weapons is that they should be the only type thats have damage alteration based on range cuz they already are like that.
We already have more then decent close range weapons in Dizzy and FL.
yes, the point is: sniping is pointless nowadays, as a beam of hell, a storm laser, and a shitload of psispells will deliver the same range.
yes, the point is: sniping is pointless nowadays, as a beam of hell, a storm laser, and a shitload of psispells will deliver the same range.
an easy workouround for this, would be the magnification of the target box when using a SH. another one would be and i think it is in an extend, the camouflage you get from fog and the like
I made a rifle spy on Neptune for the 2 or 3 weeks I played that server. I found np using the FL, Dissy, and HL really enjoyed it, wish I could be arsed making rifle spy again on terra.
Only problem I see with them is the reload issue which fucked over every reticle class.
I made a rifle spy on Neptune for the 2 or 3 weeks I played that server. I found np using the FL, Dissy, and HL really enjoyed it, wish I could be arsed making rifle spy again on terra.
Only problem I see with them is the reload issue which fucked over every reticle class.
Rifles are great, The FL rocks, Dissie is good as ever, HL got the right nerf as it should have and reload now works the way it should have. What remains now to be done is a good monk nerf
Rifles are great, The FL rocks, Dissie is good as ever, HL got the right nerf as it should have and reload now works the way it should have. What remains now to be done is a good monk nerfThe dissie actually hurts these days. Haven't seen any rifle spies using it in ages, then came across spearhead. He's pretty good with it, that thing really does some good damage.
And the FL, well. Imo the stamina drain and the guns/ammo weight is to high and the aiming might need a slight boost, apart from that it's amazing and also the sexiest weapon by far. :)
But if you can aim it, that thing is better than any other gun in close combat.
The dissie actually hurts these days. Haven't seen any rifle spies using it in ages, then came across spearhead. He's pretty good with it, that thing really does some good damage.
And the FL, well. Imo the stamina drain and the guns/ammo weight is to high and the aiming might need a slight boost, apart from that it's amazing and also the sexiest weapon by far. :)
But if you can aim it, that thing is better than any other gun in close combat.
Dissie hurted from way back as I can tell, at least when NC2 was inroduced, as I dunno about before that as I was using the nib HL, but I guess it should have been equal powerfull back then in NC1 as well. But we are humans and we were simply using what was easier at the time therefore, the auto aim rifle.
For the FL, it really is the sexiest of all, I used to like the old skin a lot more, stamina afaik (Kurai thinks not) is half that of a HL which is good, ammo weight is not an issue, beacause you need alot less since its very powerfull and doesnt work like spray shooting like some guns work. What's more when you fire it people think its a CS tank.
Im very happy to see some spies using it now (Kurai already does ;))
Seeing that i probably won't get a woc disc ever, i'm actually considering lomming Kapow to rifles. Just for some fun. :lol:
God, why did i delete Brainiac? Fully capped rifle spy. I'm such a cunt. :(
RogerRamjet
05-01-06, 10:00
I'm such a cunt. :(
I was gonna tell you but... :D
I was gonna tell you but...
Hah, seriously. Deleting that spy for a droner that i deleted after another week was pretty much the most stupid thing i've ever done in NC. :rolleyes:
RogerRamjet
05-01-06, 14:34
Dude, in the time you were gone, i made and capped a rifle spy, then a PE, then a rifle spy, and ive just capped another PE, and im gonna delete him for another spy, lol.
Dude, in the time you were gone, i made and capped a rifle spy, then a PE, then a rifle spy, and ive just capped another PE, and im gonna delete him for another spy, lol.Hah, thing is i can't play that much NC anymore these days.
Since i moved i turned into an A student, got lots of work at uni, new friends, girls and a lot more partys to go to. Not to mention i lost more than 40 pounds that i would gain again if i'd start playing that much again. ;)
Friends and my 15 housemates are already complaining i'm wasting too much time playing. :lol:
Bugs Gunny
10-01-06, 11:59
Spend more time with your friends, it's worth more than a stupid game.
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