What I believe would promote PvP. [Archive]

Diss

27-12-05, 09:15

Hi all,

I have seen various topics and comments about so many people keeping their LE's in, I myself do too btw, and it made me think on it.

Yesterday evening Jerico was under TG attack on Terra server (well that was what they were broadcasting over the help channel) and I wanted to go over there and try to shoot some people but... I'm over lvl 30 and didn't fancy the idea to remove my LE for a quicky. I believe that their are alot of people from the older and newer generation that are not so into PvP. Frankly the comments I see here sometimes that say "if you don't like PvP you should play another game" does no longer suit here I think.

So I was thinking about what would be a solution for this problem and I came up with the following.

Each main appartment has a biobed. Give the biobed a secondary function, to remove and insert LE's at your leisure. You can always do it when you feel like PvP'ing.

For example;
- While you are in the extraction or insertion process you are immobilized.
- You can not be in a clan with your LE's in. Same as before, you get the warning that you can not insert it as long as you are in a clan.
- You can not hack belts with your LE's in. Same as before.
- The only way to add or remove the LE in through the use of a biobed in an appartment.
- No level restriction, a capped player could still do it when he want's to do it.
- The belts that you drop while in PvP can only be recovered while you are in PvP mode (so no LE's in).
- LE's could be sold at Cryton's for the people that lost theirs.

I believe that this would help people to PvP. They can put in the LE's when doing pure PvE and when an outpost is attacked they can remove it and go get slaughtered by experienced PvP'ers :)

The important factor is the safety feeling. When I played NC1, the first thing I did after char creation was to remove my LE. Now on NC2, I keep my LE in. If the option I presented was inserted in some form, I would definately do PvP when the need arrises. Hardcore PvP'ers just leave it out :lol:

Things evolve, players evolve, too many games have been made where pvp is an option and too many bad experiences have been around to sour the milk.

I am sure that their are still flaws in my idea, so I would love to hear your take on this.

John Wu

27-12-05, 10:09

I dont like that idea. everyone would only remove the LE when they feel like fighting other players, and put it back in when they feel like

- leveling in safety
- flaming other players in safety
- raising their SL in safety
- doing (epic) missions in safety
- flaming a little more
- hunting
- whatever

I'd hate to meet the guy that killed me with three of his friends alone, but with LE in.

edit: I think there would be less PvP with this idea, not more.

Cadgar

27-12-05, 10:24

I dont like the LE at all. There are many threads in that people complain about LE'ler. They can do what ever they want without getting consequences.

Maybe it would be an idea that people start without LE and without a faction. Then they can get attacked _but_ the attacker gets - sl because the one without faction is friend to the attackers faction. So people will think twice if they kill you.

i just woke up so sorry for my terrible english and the undeveloped idea ^_^

Diss

27-12-05, 11:02

Granted,

Their would still be the same amout of clan PvP though.
And leveling, flaming in safety is what happends now also.
The SL raising could be made that people with negative SL can not insert a LE perhaps?

sultana

27-12-05, 11:11

The reason the Law Enforcer chip had the maximum level requirement put onto it, was because people would abuse the chip by implanting when they had negative soullight and then do missions without any risk of being killed and losing their stuff. And even if they did die (by mob or whatever) they still wouldn't lose anything.

Foo

27-12-05, 11:38

aye was like that in nc1 badly , it got very abused in nc1 which is why they put a lvl cap on it , ppl were just doing as sultana stated , but it did get abused bad. It didnt promote pvp , it just promoted lameness so i dotn agree with this . Some parts of Nc1 were great , but this part of nc1 was lame.

Diss

27-12-05, 11:43

Ok fair enough :D
It was an idea, and ideas should be presented.

Thanks all for the input :)
Much appreciated.

PS: Please add to this discussion if you have points to add, pro and con.

suler

27-12-05, 11:50

Personally I think they should just bring back the exp loss for having an LE in.

Riddle

27-12-05, 12:36

Must agree don't like the idea of capped players being able to put LE in and i have a few ;)

I nearly always take LE out around lv45 ish and the game play changes!
I got to watch my back in every zone, make sure I can handle that MOB, rearrange my shit and be careful what i carry in my Inventory :lol: hell it's a different game!!

Take your LE out and see what NC is meant to be like :D

*Not recommended for low levels ;) due to gankers! :lol:

Bugs Gunny

27-12-05, 13:12

Le is fine as it is.
People who take it out choose to participate in pvp, simple as that.

I lost a red sl 10 itemdrop belt last night, so... just replace your items, keep spares in appy, move on.
This IS after all a roleplaying PVP game.

Destino

27-12-05, 13:47

I would add a NOOB point of view about LE.

Now i have a PPU lev 30 in a clan with some friends. We are all low level and we try to hunt/level in order to partecipate on OP wars and PvP. BUT. But we cannot level up. We cannot have LE in (or no clan, no chat clan, no storage clan, nothing) and there are some nice ppl (i.e. Snipe) that find really fun keep killing us all while we try to lev up. Jerico. MB. Regant. Chester. Everywere.
Those ppl don't care about how honorable is killing harmless ppl, they just have fun this way (i'm still trying to understand what fun is in it). So what we must do? I personally deleted 3 chars (all were in my clan) and remake them and keep playing wit LE in. My 4th char is still in clan but i don't ply him anymore. The reason is simple: why i must play a char for, say, 1 hour if i spend 3/4 waiting for SI caused by random noob pkers?

So my guess are:
- no LE for ppl with negative SL
- killing ally ALWAYS (but OP wars) give HUGE negative SL
- ppl with LE CAN be in a clan
- LE can be implanted only in appartaments
- clan owning an OP cannot have ppl with LE in
- no LE over global lev 50 or 55 or 60 or whatever

Also, i'd add, no SL gain for killing "grey" mob and for making missions that involve those mobs.

Remember, have new ppl on this game is only possible if those ppl don't find frustrating the game experience. And keep being killed by someone having 30 lev more than you or trying to exp in a spot with mob 15/15 and someone lev 60/64 killing them for "SL missions" is REALLY frustrating. Of cours all this IMHO

suler

27-12-05, 14:19

If you really want to promote pvp, and make the game safer for everybody at the same time all you have to do is remove the LE completely or enforce a real restriction to using it. Sure at first this sounds like a dumb idea to make the game safer but hear me out.

Without the LE leveling will be harder for everyone, if everyone just random pks like they do now. If you pk somebody in another clan that is leveling, now they're going to try to pk people in your clan leveling. This will probably end up with alot of clans being neutral and alot of leveling areas much safer to most clans. Sure there will be clans and solo pkers that don't care about getting pked leveling, but these will be the exception not the rule.

Basically it would make clan politics mean something and the game all around more enjoyable.

Drake6k

27-12-05, 21:54

What I believe would promote pvp.

- Removing the LE chip
- Lowering SL and FS penalties
- Removal of hunting zones

So no one can complain about leveling up:
Outzone would be restored to the old Neocron1 ways with many mobs for noobs to fight. Storage 7 and 8 changed back to good spawn, not dragonflys.
Better wasteland spawns, for example more hazard worms in desert.
Swamp mobs increased, becomes viable mid-leveling spot.
exc exc

Ios - Terra

27-12-05, 23:56

I have an idea, if you want to shoot other people go to the PvP server, if you want to roleplay, enjoy building a character, and travel the wasteland with friends play on LE Server.

There should be 2 servers, a LE server and a PvP server. I know KK likes to believe that this is a PvP game but they need to think outside that box and look at it from a marketing prospective, how are YOU going to gain the most subscribers. Your job is to try to appeal to as many types of gamers as you can, I can tell you that if I'm trying to go shoot monsters and a bunch of zone whoring idiots kills me - that's not appealing to me that's pissing me off and making me go spend my time somewhere far away from Neocron.

I bet you folks are like, "But Ios! What happens to outposts if there is no PvP?!?!?11" Easy answer, make them dungeons, each outpost should have a unique enemy set, boss, drops, ect. ect. I believe this would force a content boost for a game that is in dire need of more content and more teaming.

Don't tell me I'm playing the wrong game, I love Neocron, I don't like fighting other people who kill me and steal my stuff.

I don't see whats stopping them from this, most successful MMO's have seperate Carebare/PvP servers. Everyones different and it doesn't feel suspenseful to get shot at by a capped out dex monkey.

John Wu

28-12-05, 01:22

I enjoy building my character, role play from time to time, and travel the wastelands with friends. I also like to kill my enemies and fight for my faction. seperating PvP and LE server is a very bad idea - neocron is not a good FPS, nor is it a good RPG - neocron is what it is because you can have both, FPS with rpg elements.

and why would you want to seperate them - noone forces you to remove the LE, noone forces you to fight other people.

Foo

28-12-05, 01:27

I don't see whats stopping them from this, most successful MMO's have seperate Carebare/PvP servers. Everyones different and it doesn't feel suspenseful to get shot at by a capped out dex monkey.

They do? , care to name a few ?

Drake6k

28-12-05, 02:01

I have an idea, if you want to shoot other people go to the PvP server, if you want to roleplay, enjoy building a character, and travel the wasteland with friends play on LE Server.

Are you saying pvp can't involve building a character, traveling the wastelands with friends, and roleplaying? :mad:

Ios - Terra

28-12-05, 03:03

They do? , care to name a few ?

EverQuest, Ultima Online

Paper Dragon

28-12-05, 03:17

Are you saying pvp can't involve building a character, traveling the wastelands with friends, and roleplaying? :mad:

Given the attitude and little amount of Roleplaying I have seen, I'd say this was the case in Neocron.

Ios - Terra

28-12-05, 03:21

Are you saying pvp can't involve building a character, traveling the wastelands with friends, and roleplaying? :mad:

Whats with the angry face? Some people just don't like PvP, the last thing an adventuring party wants is Joe Dickhead ruining their hunt by killing them all.

and why would you want to seperate them - noone forces you to remove the LE, noone forces you to fight other people.

It's pretty retarded to make LE's take up a brain slot as it is, I would've kept mine in but back when I started my first character (NC1) the LE gimped xp. I want to put mine back in but they won't let me past /30 which is also retarded because it allows other people to attack me - so yes I am forced to fight other people. Just cut the nonsense, and I'm referring to all of you on this: NOT EVERYONE ENJOYS PvP. For me especially because of how rediculous the damage system is in this game, it's sorta manageable when fighting monsters, but when fighting other players you never really know where your health is at. You guys can bring all the hate and nasty comments you want but for me KK has a shitty PvP game and a GREAT MMORPG.

Ios - Terra

28-12-05, 04:02

Ya know really thinking about this post and this game in general, the overall attitude of the developers, it's high level player base, people who post on the forums yadda yadda, is just indicative of the actual success of this game - which is shown in server population. It's a good game but focus on PvP will not make KK anymore money and the game will continue to be branded as that "poorly scripted old looking MMO." :lol:

John Wu

28-12-05, 11:17

It's pretty retarded to make LE's take up a brain slot as it is, I would've kept mine in but back when I started my first character (NC1) the LE gimped xp.
so you decided to take it out because you wanted to level faster. your decision. noone forced you.

Just cut the nonsense, and I'm referring to all of you on this: NOT EVERYONE ENJOYS PvP.
noone in this thread said that everyone should. again: for people who don't want to fight, there's a LE.

You guys can bring all the hate and nasty comments you want but for me KK has a shitty PvP game and a GREAT MMORPG.
actually I dont see any hate or nasty comments. I at least just tried to make my point clear why I dont think we need a server seperation.

if your only problem is that you can't put your LE back in - roll a new char. you'd have to do the same if there would be a new server.

Preach

28-12-05, 11:49

If you want to play PVE there is no reason whatsoever to remove your le. It takes up a brain slot but that doesn't effect your ability to PvE as most four slot brain imp setups once capped are for PvP effectiveness. Dont tell you cant cap without 4 brain imps, if ur le'd you can cap as quickly as you want. The loss of say Dex from lets say a motoric 3 (+5 dex) can be replaced by drugs as with psi(Nightspider) and so on with str(beast).

There is no justifiable reason to remove your LE if you want to play PvE. If you think about it PvE and PvP are seperate environments on the same server. No need for two seperate servers as you have both here rolled into one through the LE system

Ios - Terra

28-12-05, 12:27

John Wu

28-12-05, 13:15

KK is not forcing you. you took the LE out on your own responsibility.

and there's not only the soullight problem when you talk about LEs. read above posts if you want details on what I mean.

Preach

28-12-05, 14:07

KK is not forcing you. you took the LE out on your own responsibility.

and there's not only the soullight problem when you talk about LEs. read above posts if you want details on what I mean.

Exactly, if u do not like PvP never remove you LE, there is nothing you cannot do in this game without le in

Destino

28-12-05, 14:08

There is no justifiable reason to remove your LE if you want to play PvE. If you think about it PvE and PvP are seperate environments on the same server. No need for two seperate servers as you have both here rolled into one through the LE system

No clan and all clan stuff is'nt a justifiable reason to remove LE?
It's my own responsability to decide to remove my LE in this case?
It's like "hey if you don't remove your LE you can play 70% of game, but it's your choice to remove or not".

Preach

28-12-05, 14:13

No clan and all clan stuff is'nt a justifiable reason to remove LE?
It's my own responsability to decide to remove my LE in this case?
It's like "hey if you don't remove your LE you can play 70% of game, but it's your choice to remove or not".

All your missing is a clan app.... buddy list is the same as clan chat. And tbh clan app is pointless no clan with half a tits worth of intel would use one.

suler

28-12-05, 14:20

Then they should let me put the LE back in, KK is forcing me to PvP if I can't put it in past 30. If they don't want people taking it in and out so people can get their soulight up in safety connect it to your Soulight and not your level (duh)

The LE was supposed to be like training wheels you eventually took off when you were ready for the real stuff. The only thing that really makes this game fun at all is the pvp, and if you don't enjoy pvp there are plenty of other mmos based solely around pve.

John Wu

28-12-05, 14:22

Suler, if he wants to play this game as PvM only, its his decision. no need to direct him to other mmorgps. especially when there is means in neocron that allow you to play it as PvM only.

@Destino: being in a clan hardly is 30% of neocron. I'm not in a clan, and enjoying it 100% in my opinion. playing it with LE in would mean only playing 30% of what neocron offers - but thats just me.

I wouldn't have a problem if KK implemented LE-only clans, with all the restrictions LE users have.

suler

28-12-05, 14:34

Destino

28-12-05, 14:35

@preach
Maybe you're right aboout not clan using app, but you are talkin about Big clans, or veteran's clan. Remember i'm lookin all this on a noob point of view. Buddy is ment, imho, for chatting with ppl that are in other clans or not in a clan at all, but if you have some friend and you want to make a little clan to have appartaments, chat, view who's online, share cash, you simply can't. Or you will never lev up.

@ John wu
Clans arent 30% of game, but if you add hacking a belt and a chip slot you can reach it. Btw, i'm not saying all LE limitations are bad, just i don't stand the clan limitation, cause they can handle all this in a different way and let ppl a chance to lev up while in a clan

Preach

28-12-05, 14:50

Sorry if i come across as a bit short on the LE subject, the clan issue minus le is linked directly to the op fighting(PvP) aspect of the game as your clan tag is then linked to your victories and rewards.

If i was running a group of non pvp'ing people who want to be together, i would consider buddy chat to be my clan chat. Voice comms and asking on buddy should give you an instant idea of who is online in your group. anyone else you would like to speak to can easily be done through direct chat and if they have you in their buddy it is no problem in contacting them,

Clan apps are notoriously unpopular as there are certain ways of people in the clan gaining the password without anyones permission and taking everything you have. Only way this couldnt occur is if your clan was only made up of people you know in rl or have played with for an extended period of time but the problem with mmorpgs is that you meet new people who you may wish to add to your clan which can lead to badness. Considering you dont like the PvP aspect of neo i think that these steps are not entirely awkward to implement in order to have a good le group of people together as one.

Liebestoter

28-12-05, 15:47

Not trying to flame. Really.

@ Ios - Terra: I think there are far better games for PvM. Admittedly Neocron's cyberpunk atmosphere is cool, but uh, KK built this as a PvP game. I agree with the above posts. Neocron is Neocron because it combines FPS, RPG and pee kay action. Ironically enough I don't see many people roleplaying or PvMing. The idea of grinding in NC really doesn't appeal to me. I mean, ok, the AI for the mobs isn't anything special. Let's be honest here. The PvM is boring. You hunt so you can PvP. The challenge in this game is the other players. KK has an imbalanced PvP game. Not a good 'kill mob_0132 for shiny to kill big_bad_mob32352' game. Your comments of 'lol no money lol pvp bad' - dude, no one will want to play a game consisting of shooting aggie caps then clopses then fire mobs then chaos monsters, all of which behave the same. The PvM portion of this game is pretty terrible. Honestly your argument holds no weight here. PvMers are the vocal minority here. KK can't make everyone happy. If they were to perhaps balance PvP and spruce it up a bit, they'd have an excellent product. I like to think I'm a somewhat experienced PvPer.. I've uhh played a lot of computer games, and no PvP compares to NC's. Period.

@ FO: UO. EQ. AC.

@ Cracky : MY LEADER! HE SPEAKS THE TRUTH!

OK, so now to my little song and dance.

How to promote PvP. Let's see.

- Balance monks. One PPU shows up and suddenly small skirmishes around zonelines aren't fun anymore.
- Balance the Holy Line. Change it. Just do it. I don't care how, just make the stupid stop.
- Ungimp reload.
- Revamp op fights. Give us more to do. Op fights, while fun, yadda yadda, display of skill, aren't terribly fascinating. Maybe adding some underground areas to fight in, more close quarters kinda stuff. Make it more interesting. Make it have more of a profound impact on the game world. Maybe more TFC like. More content. MORE CONTENT. In it's current state, op fighting is pretty stale in my opinion.
- Provide an incentive for killing enemies instead of a punishment for ganking allies. I'm not talking about sympathy hits. Maybe an NPC in HQ who will dogtags from enemy factions off you for 100 credits per combat rank. Maybe experience. Maybe add some more faction quests or items that are only accessible by blasting other runners. Right now, small scale PvP is relatively low risk and relatively pointless.
- To provide a bit more political intrigue/backstabbing between factions, perhaps count each city sector as a 'zone' and let clans blast each other for control of each specific sector's economy, allowing them to set prices, take a cut of items bought, etc. Think Mafia 'protection. This one's far fetched but oh well.

Dividing the factions into 'red vs. blue' really gimped up the "political" aspect of the game, imo.

Now, as far as all this 'omfgzzz level in peace' hogwash goes.. go where the people with the big guns aren't. It's not too hard. Sheesh.

john irons

28-12-05, 15:54

[ edited ]

Destino

28-12-05, 16:05

The idea of grinding in NC really doesn't appeal to me.

Fact: if you dont PvM or "grind" you cannot PvP, at least if you don't call being pked PvP

- Provide an incentive for killing enemies instead of a punishment for ganking allies. I'm not talking about sympathy hits. Maybe an NPC in HQ who will dogtags from enemy factions off you for 100 credits per combat rank. Maybe experience. Maybe add some more faction quests or items that are only accessible by blasting other runners. Right now, small scale PvP is relatively low risk and relatively pointless.

So ppl will start making new char of opposite faction only to let being killed by friends ;) Btw, it's a good idea, need some working though

Now, as far as all this 'omfgzzz level in peace' hogwash goes.. go where the people with the big guns aren't. It's not too hard. Sheesh.

Read my previous comment. And if you can, tell me where "people with the big guns aren't". I tryed Jerico, Regant, Ind., MB, Chester, Battle Dome. Everywere i got pked more than once. There are some ppl that find fun hanging around on "grinding zone" for killing noob or, in general, lvling ppl.

Preach

28-12-05, 16:33

those are all really popular areas for ganking that you have listed. As it all depends on your class here are a few prime places for quiet lvling

Swamp caves at Gravis and Jankins Labs,
Regents Legacy: lots of people there but no ganking because of the sl hits and too many of each side hanging around.
E12 Chaos cave; usually quiet if someone is in it best to steer clear.
Fire mobs above nemesis lab zone.
McPherson factory has some great lvling and no0one ever goes there.
Soul Cluster caves: always empty
Doy tunnels.. always very quiet and has some of the best loots going.
I06 warbot hunting again, its either really quiet or has a single team there

Paper Dragon

28-12-05, 16:47

Catoring to LE players is one of the many factors that brought the game to the low population it is now.

Doesn't explain why all the highly successful MMORPGs to date have an extensive PvE content, or - like EverQuest - where PvE is the sole reason behind the game.

Even in rp terms I don't see why factions would fund groups of people to do nothing useful for them besides killing agressors and cyclops'.

Clearing out a nest of mutants from the inner-city would be infinitely more desirable for a company as opposed to blowing the shit out of a Runner in the wastelands, who will just come back to life in less than a minute anyway.

sultana

28-12-05, 16:58

Clans arent 30% of game, but if you add hacking a belt and a chip slot you can reach it. Btw, i'm not saying all LE limitations are bad, just i don't stand the clan limitation, cause they can handle all this in a different way and let ppl a chance to lev up while in a clan
But you don't drop a belt at all while you have the LE chip implanted. How can you expect to hack someone elses belt, when you don't run the risk of losing one yourself?

As people have said, the LE chip is there for a reason, that is to disable PvP. If you want to participate in the "full" game, then you simply take it out. People make it sound as if they're ganked by every allie they see.

Ios - Terra

28-12-05, 20:05

Catoring to LE players is one of the many factors that brought the game to the low population it is now.

Also you guys can say being in a clan isn't that important however, op wars and clan politics are definetly more then 30 percent of the game to me. On that note an LE clan would be useless. Even in rp terms I don't see why factions would fund groups of people to do nothing useful for them besides killing agressors and cyclops'.

I can only think of 2 factors that brought this game to such a low poplulation, lack of content and the buggy health system - has nothing to do with balancing monks or whatever the hot new thing is to bitch about, most people never even get as far as PvP before they quit. I think where KK is failing is they're focusing an MMORPG as a PvP experience when they really should be focusing it as a MMORPG with PvP as one feature. Most of you have been here far to long to not form an unbiased opinion.

What's with people always directing people away from this game who don't like PvP? I actually enjoy the PvE aspect a lot, if KK had any balls they would show some love for that part of the game. Do you think they spend their days trying to balance monks in their offices? No way, they're not doing a damn thing, because never giving us weekly updates of a game they're trying to resurrect is indicative of "not doing a damn thing."

John Wu

28-12-05, 20:18

[...]has nothing to do with balancing monks or whatever the hot new thing is to bitch about
sorry if I answer only to that, but 'bitching' about balancing monks is not a 'hot new thing'. not at all.

one more thing, I'd love it too if the PvE aspect would get 'some love'. as well as the PvP. because I like neocron as a whole.

Ios - Terra

28-12-05, 20:18

Not trying to flame. Really.

@ Ios - Terra: I think there are far better games for PvM. Admittedly Neocron's cyberpunk atmosphere is cool, but uh, KK built this as a PvP game. I agree with the above posts. Neocron is Neocron because it combines FPS, RPG and pee kay action. Ironically enough I don't see many people roleplaying or PvMing. The idea of grinding in NC really doesn't appeal to me. I mean, ok, the AI for the mobs isn't anything special. Let's be honest here. The PvM is boring. You hunt so you can PvP. The challenge in this game is the other players. KK has an imbalanced PvP game. Not a good 'kill mob_0132 for shiny to kill big_bad_mob32352' game. Your comments of 'lol no money lol pvp bad' - dude, no one will want to play a game consisting of shooting aggie caps then clopses then fire mobs then chaos monsters, all of which behave the same. The PvM portion of this game is pretty terrible. Honestly your argument holds no weight here. PvMers are the vocal minority here. KK can't make everyone happy. If they were to perhaps balance PvP and spruce it up a bit, they'd have an excellent product. I like to think I'm a somewhat experienced PvPer.. I've uhh played a lot of computer games, and no PvP compares to NC's. Period.

PvE's are not the vocal minority totally, look at MMO's as a whole PvE's count for most of any population of any game. Not in Neocron, they all left or perhaps were never here at all. Most MMORPG's have you going to kill giant_rat_01 to get shiny_thing_00 and this is the only enviornment (cyberpunk/post nuclear) I'm into that sorta has that, it's a total cock tease, on one half I get to kill warbots and construct powerful SHINY THINGS and on the other half I'm being told, "Hey asshole stop being a pussy and collecting virtual items and SHOOT US!" Your belittling of my posts will not change my opinion so why don't you use the "quote" feature instead mmkay?

What's totally confusing is that I've played a lot of FPS's and PvP games (Quake series, Half Life CS, Infantry, AvP2, Halo, etc, etc.) , and I can't see whats so dazzling about NC's PvP. Am I the only one who notices the shitty refresh rates, the laggy health bar, and the terrible aiming system?

Ios - Terra

28-12-05, 20:19

sorry if I answer only to that, but 'bitching' about balancing monks is not a 'hot new thing'. not at all.

Thank you, Captain Obvious.

Drake6k

28-12-05, 20:47

http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=42692

5150

28-12-05, 23:01

Catoring to LE players is one of the many factors that brought the game to the low population it is now.

Totally disagree, if the game catered to more than just the PvP crowd the playerbase would be bigger

Planetside and Neptune should be enough to tell you that PvP only/centric games are a niche market.....

Foo

28-12-05, 23:05

EverQuest, Ultima Online

Thats 2 not most ...

Drake6k

28-12-05, 23:10

I honestly cant believe you all think there is more to Neocron than pvp O_o

Ios - Terra

28-12-05, 23:27

Thats 2 not most ...

I said most successful, nobody likes a smartass.

Ios - Terra

28-12-05, 23:28

I honestly cant believe you all think there is more to Neocron than pvp O_o

Comming from the guy who has a PvP vanity video in his sig. Stop being so biased.

Foo

29-12-05, 01:12

I said most successful, nobody likes a smartass.

And nobody likes dumb ass comments , but hey cant all have what we want eh ^

ZoVoS

29-12-05, 01:26

why not introduce a safety chip

that acts like everything u have said but has a 100SL requierment

suler

29-12-05, 02:36

The main draw to neocron for me was the atmosphere. I don't know how many people are left that feel similar to me on this but it was the combination of pve and pvp into one game that made it so fun.

Leveling used to be something you did while watching your back at the same time. If you had problems leveling you just joined a clan or grouped up with friends to make sure you didn't get messed with.

I will say it again with the LE in place clans have nothing to lose, and there is no reason for noob clans to form besides trying to take ops.

Also you can say PVE is a big draw to MMOs all you want, however neocron has always been about PVP. This isn't for the average MMO player it's for the niche group that enjoy it.

Liebestoter

29-12-05, 02:58

Words words words grinding words.

I realize this. I'm merely saying, 'grinding' isn't exactly the fun part of NC. The fun part is killing other players.

Ios - Terra

29-12-05, 07:25

And nobody likes dumb ass comments , but hey cant all have what we want eh ^

F you. You're the one that mis-read my post. Don't be pissed because you got served up some delicious facts.

Ios - Terra

29-12-05, 07:33

Ios - Terra

29-12-05, 07:34

why not introduce a safety chip

that acts like everything u have said but has a 100SL requierment

If they put this in, and it didn't take up a vital brain slot... I would never bitch again.

Ios - Terra

29-12-05, 07:41

http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=42692

Why did you post this? Just about everyone who responded to that thread is in support of a bigger PvE Neocron. Notice how those same people don't post here anymore.

suler

29-12-05, 08:45

Then don't expect this game to ever grow and get better, end of conversation.

Why does it have to be only PVE that could possibly improve in a game. PVP can't possible be improved upon? I don't understand what you are basing that on.

Why did you post this? Just about everyone who responded to that thread is in support of a bigger PvE Neocron. Notice how those same people don't post here anymore.

Using the fact that certain people aren't playing to support your point doesn't really work. Most people who were around when that was posted are gone, no matter what they supported.

sultana

29-12-05, 09:26

I can only think of 2 factors that brought this game to such a low poplulation, lack of content and the buggy health system - has nothing to do with balancing monks or whatever the hot new thing is to bitch about, most people never even get as far as PvP before they quit.
Then monks have been the "hot new thing to bitch about" for about the past 2 or 3 years, they've always been talked about on this forum since I joined. Take Callashes two ppu balancing threads/ideas for example. The only reason you see more of it on the forums is people there's been an increasing amount of monks ingame then before.

Bugs and Content are two reasons people may quit. But for those who have reached the end-game content, being PvP. They've learned to live with the bugs and then have quit because of the balance issues.

Ios - Terra

29-12-05, 09:49

Why does it have to be only PVE that could possibly improve in a game. PVP can't possible be improved upon? I don't understand what you are basing that on.

Improving PvP is not going to draw in new players.

suler

29-12-05, 09:51

Improving PvP is not going to draw in new players.

You're right improving the unique thing about this game would be totally stupid, like for real. Let's just try to be like everything else on the market and try to bring new players in because of the setting but with no atmosphere that resembles that setting.

Liebestoter

29-12-05, 10:11

Yeah, let's like, make dungeons, where you got to get levels to kill stuff to get things to get more levels to kill more stuff to get better things to kill the big bad monster in the dark dungeon who drops the Shiny Thing. Wait, I just described every MMORPG on the market that doesn't have a solid basis in player vs. player. Neocron as a high end PvE game would be terrible. It's bad enough as it is. Look! You have .. a new gun! With the same model! That fires slightly slower and does slightly more damage! Hooray!

Yeah, I'll pass on that. I'd rather have more things to do in terms of PvP, have more incentive to kill each other, more incentive to attack and defend ops, have the ops mean something, than a bunch of silly superficial changes to the game.

xyl_az

29-12-05, 11:22

and i would rather have neptune as a "real" pvp server, without LEs and all that bullshit (remove LE, replaces battlefield sectors with wasteland/hacknet ones, remove local list).

Such server would promote pvp...

solling

29-12-05, 20:01

i think the le chip is fine as it is i enjoy the game a lot the way it is only need new players and maybee a monk fix or 2

Ios - Terra

29-12-05, 20:20

Ios - Terra

29-12-05, 20:26

You're right improving the unique thing about this game would be totally stupid, like for real. Let's just try to be like everything else on the market and try to bring new players in because of the setting but with no atmosphere that resembles that setting.

If you like Neocron the way it is, fucking EMPTY, then don't complain ever. This game wasn't intended to be your own private niche warzone for niche PvP players because honestly there are like 25 of you and most of them hang out at zone lines going back and forth in between safe and battle zones, that's not PvP, that's fucking comical, you're basically seeing who's gonna fatal runtime error first or who's capped PPU buffs are gonna drop first. It was intended to have lots of subscribers and to be built up on a regular basis. Have you forgotten all the claims they made about this game when it first came out? Or were you not around during that time?

Dade Murphey

29-12-05, 20:47

If you like Neocron the way it is, fucking EMPTY, then don't complain ever. This game wasn't intended to be your own private niche warzone for niche PvP players because honestly there are like 25 of you and most of them hang out at zone lines going back and forth in between safe and battle zones, that's not PvP, that's fucking comical, you're basically seeing who's gonna fatal runtime error first or who's capped PPU buffs are gonna drop first. It was intended to have lots of subscribers and to be built up on a regular basis. Have you forgotten all the claims they made about this game when it first came out? Or were you not around during that time?

Actually...if I recall seeing posts from the past, they knew this would be a very niche game and I don't think ever expected to be as massive as EQ, AC, SWG, AO, etc
And these days the game is fairly populated...not empty, atleast on terra
Things with the game seem to be moving in a good direction these days...and that's a bonus...and now when I log on at 10pm there's actually more than 30 people online...and that's a huge bonus

Ios - Terra

29-12-05, 20:53

Actually...if I recall seeing posts from the past, they knew this would be a very niche game and I don't think ever expected to be as massive as EQ, AC, SWG, AO, etc
And these days the game is fairly populated...not empty, atleast on terra
Things with the game seem to be moving in a good direction these days...and that's a bonus...and now when I log on at 10pm there's actually more than 30 people online...and that's a huge bonus

It makes no sense to make a MMO for a niche audience. It's not a cheap occupation.

jj dynomite

29-12-05, 20:54

It makes no sense to make a MMO for a niche audience. It's not a cheap occupation.

It makes pretty good sense to me. I rather enjoy it.

Dade Murphey

29-12-05, 21:00

It makes no sense to make a MMO for a niche audience. It's not a cheap occupation.

you make a cyberpunk game and it's already set for a niche audience...not everyone out there likes dark gritty futuristic stuff...not everyone likes something that's largely pvp oriented...not everyone likes the fps feel...you combine those 3 and you're in a niche already

Ios - Terra

29-12-05, 21:23

Well I tried my arguments are old and tired, as is Neocron, I'll continue to support this game because of the time I put into it, who knows maybe I'll log on one day to find that all the shittyness has gone away.

Liebestoter

30-12-05, 00:05

Wish in one hand.

Spermy

30-12-05, 00:07

Wish in one hand.

Dick in the other :p

( thats if i'm correct in assuming the recipient of that comment bud, in which case - :D)

suler

30-12-05, 00:52

If you like Neocron the way it is, fucking EMPTY, then don't complain ever. This game wasn't intended to be your own private niche warzone for niche PvP players because honestly there are like 25 of you and most of them hang out at zone lines going back and forth in between safe and battle zones, that's not PvP, that's fucking comical, you're basically seeing who's gonna fatal runtime error first or who's capped PPU buffs are gonna drop first. It was intended to have lots of subscribers and to be built up on a regular basis. Have you forgotten all the claims they made about this game when it first came out? Or were you not around during that time?

I don't think you read most of what I said. I'm saying that removing the LE restriciton has made this game worse. If they keep going in that direction and make it more LE player friendly the pop will probably go even lower. I don't think the game the way it is, is right either. I think the complete removal of the LE or putting back in the exp loss would improve this game tenfold. If you want to know why I think that it's in like 2 of my other posts.

5150

30-12-05, 01:31

I don't think you read most of what I said. I'm saying that removing the LE restriciton has made this game worse. If they keep going in that direction and make it more LE player friendly the pop will probably go even lower. I don't think the game the way it is, is right either. I think the complete removal of the LE or putting back in the exp loss would improve this game tenfold. If you want to know why I think that it's in like 2 of my other posts.

What I dont understand is this...

If making the game more 'LE friendly' makes less people play then those leaving must want to gank people who have no interrest in [unrestricted] PvP

So what your saying is that a playerbase full of griefers and gankers is a good thing.....

Liebestoter

30-12-05, 02:24

Okay, yeah, make the game more LE friendly and bla bla, and you'll have a substandard cyberpunk PvM MMO. Woop de doo. There's nothing terribly fascinating about NC in the PvM sense right now. Adding more content and PvM crap would more time and effort than it's work and result in shit that no one will play, because NC was supposed to be oriented around PvP.

Catering to everyone's wants and needs and desires = shit no one will play. A few posts ago someone was like 'OMFGZ FIX NF BUGS' and another 'OMFGZ ADD MORE OF X'.

I'd rather have them make the game more playable, and more shit for the PvPers to do and more shit for the tradeskillers to do. I honestly don't think adding more dungeons and more shiny objects to collect will make the game more appealing to anyone.

suler

30-12-05, 02:47

What I dont understand is this...

If making the game more 'LE friendly' makes less people play then those leaving must want to gank people who have no interrest in [unrestricted] PvP

So what your saying is that a playerbase full of griefers and gankers is a good thing.....

No, infact with most people taking the LE out the game had less griefers and gankers. If you combined the LE removal with something that made it so people's alts have to be connected someway or in the same faction it would work even better.

Once you take the LE out people have something to lose, now they think twice about ganking people because they don't want to be ganked leveling. Same thing goes for clans.

With the LE the way it is now nobody cares, people just cap then join a clan and kill anything not in their clan. You're right that is much better.

5150

30-12-05, 17:06

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.

IMO people capping before removing LE are either people who have no interest in being ganked as a lowbie or people who want to be assholes but only once they are king of the hill. The former should not have to suffer because of the latter

Your comment about alts is very telling as well, alts are not a problem with the LE so perhaps they are best left out of this dicussion. Alts would be as much of an issue even if there were no LE.

It sounds like what you actually disagree with is PvP-oriented players using the LE until they decide they are ready to PvP, what you seem to fail to appreciate is that there are people here who have no interest in PvP (for myself this is because of the lack of PvP restrictions and the ability to gank lowbies as I previously stated)

I play this game for the setting, not to PvP and not to monster bash. If I have/need to monster bash to do what I want to do then so be it, but I dont log in and thing to myself 'I'll go kill aggy captains today'

So just to put this into some kind of perspective if the LE were removed I would no longer play NC because getting chain killed by bored high levels players trying to provoke my non-existant high level alt or clan mates is not something I find fun or am prepared to pay for, neither do I find the prosect of having to join a clan simply to warn off random attacks (to be replaced by specific targetted clan attacks) appealing either

Or to put it another way had Neptune been 1 slot/no LE you would have got 0 tradeskillers (yes I honestly do believe that) because tomorrows uber tradeskiller who has everyone protection and respect is todays lowbie trying to level in aggy basement who you gank because you have nothing better to do - then they give up and go back to Terra.......

xyl_az

30-12-05, 18:30

(...)
Or to put it another way had Neptune been 1 slot/no LE you would have got 0 tradeskillers (yes I honestly do believe that) because tomorrows uber tradeskiller who has everyone protection and respect is todays lowbie trying to level in aggy basement who you gank because you have nothing better to do - then they give up and go back to Terra.......

Well you're wrong.

I would play a full-time tradeskiller on Neptune - but ONLY in a world without LEs, safezones and no-belt-drop retarded warzones. Only then. Because only then tradeskilling could be an interesting and challenging enough (as opposed to mindless, pointless and boring as it stands now), also because only then tradeskiller would be really needed (people woouldnt have their own personal tradeskiller alts) and also because only then people would care about their reputation (or if not - they would have to face the consequences) - which is crucial thing for a tradeskillers.

Right now its pointless to have a tradeskiller as everyone and his mother have his own LE tradeskiller alt. And due to safezones everyone is happily trading with everyone regardless of anything.

Just a thought - in a world of LEs and safezones, scamming might be seen as some kind of alternative way of acting - the only way to do something to someone with LE or in a safezone is to scam him. The only (approved) way to win against game mechanics...

suler

30-12-05, 22:36

IMO people capping before removing LE are either people who have no interest in being ganked as a lowbie or people who want to be assholes but only once they are king of the hill. The former should not have to suffer because of the latter

Your comment about alts is very telling as well, alts are not a problem with the LE so perhaps they are best left out of this dicussion. Alts would be as much of an issue even if there were no LE.

It sounds like what you actually disagree with is PvP-oriented players using the LE until they decide they are ready to PvP, what you seem to fail to appreciate is that there are people here who have no interest in PvP (for myself this is because of the lack of PvP restrictions and the ability to gank lowbies as I previously stated)

As long as the option exists for everybody it will be abused. I don't see how it's right that an option to help the miniority hurts the game for the majority.

Alright how about this idea, the regular LE has the exp loss put back onto it. However at character creation there is an option to make a character that never goes pvp ever and has no LE taking a brain slot.

Scaramanga

01-01-06, 22:17

What about if sectors with OPs in made everyone PvP viable?
The game is zone based anyway, and it's possible to damage le'ed players in NF so why not in Outpost sectors?

Paper Dragon

02-01-06, 03:40

What about if sectors with OPs in made everyone PvP viable?
The game is zone based anyway, and it's possible to damage le'ed players in NF so why not in Outpost sectors?

Because OP sectors have a significant level of PvE content in them, and there's nothing saying "this is a PvP zone".

If PvE was stripped from those zones and placed elsewhere, I'd agree with your solution though.

LTA

02-01-06, 03:51

if there was the right measures in the game....
we wouldnt need LE's but as it is sl etc just makes it the case...

and tbh i thought it was good when you used to hunt in the aggies and always had the risk of some high lev cappin yo ass, usually only had to shout and someone would come down and cap his ass.
till it became the trend and then the aggies and that got rule changes etc and everyone naffed of to mb and cyc.....

Spermy

02-01-06, 14:39

What about if sectors with OPs in made everyone PvP viable?
The game is zone based anyway, and it's possible to damage le'ed players in NF so why not in Outpost sectors?

A 50/50 point.

What about people running to TH? or new guys who are just blatantly lost. In some cases you can't really apply "they asked for it!" to the situation. It's reasonable...ish. But it does have it's drawbacks.

Scaramanga

02-01-06, 15:34

A 50/50 point.

What about people running to TH? or new guys who are just blatantly lost. In some cases you can't really apply "they asked for it!" to the situation. It's reasonable...ish. But it does have it's drawbacks.

Good point. The OP zones would be avoidable but but if you're new to the game it might not be all that clear about which zones are which.

The main idea for overiding the law enforcer in OP zones would be to make pvp possible for higher level players who prefer to keep it in. No belt drops in OP zones so no griefing possible. Plus it will stop people abusing the privilages of the law enforcer at an OP fight (can't mention what exactly due to forum rules).

Spermy

02-01-06, 15:45

Good point. The OP zones would be avoidable but but if you're new to the game it might not be all that clear about which zones are which.

The main idea for overiding the law enforcer in OP zones would be to make pvp possible for higher level players who prefer to keep it in. No belt drops in OP zones so no griefing possible. Plus it will stop people abusing the privilages of the law enforcer at an OP fight (can't mention what exactly due to forum rules).

Excellent point. I think it could work as long as you make it glaringly, in-yer-face obvious to newbies, that thier LE won't do it's thang, then it should be fine.

Superbron

02-01-06, 15:51

What about if sectors with OPs in made everyone PvP viable?
The game is zone based anyway, and it's possible to damage le'ed players in NF so why not in Outpost sectors?
Hm, not a bad idea at all. I think there are some downsides to it (like newbies getting lost on their way to TH), but this idea needs a chance.

Dogface

02-01-06, 15:55

5* star idea.

Bugs Gunny

02-01-06, 15:59

And what would most people start doing?

Make le'd rarehunting opwaring monks.
There would be a LOT more le users on the server.

Superbron

02-01-06, 16:00

And what would most people start doing?

Make le'd rarehunting opwaring monks.
There would be a LOT more le users on the server.Damn, another downside to the idea...

Scaramanga

02-01-06, 16:37

And what would most people start doing?

Make le'd rarehunting opwaring monks.
There would be a LOT more le users on the server.

Bum! Didn't think of that.

John Wu

02-01-06, 17:45

and we'd have a massive increase of the so called 'sync laming' because LE users can happily zone between op and non-op zones.

LE is fine the way it is.

zii

02-01-06, 19:23

I have an idea, if you want to shoot other people go to the PvP server, if you want to roleplay, enjoy building a character, and travel the wasteland with friends play on LE Server..

Oddly, there is more RP on the PVP server than PVP, but this is off-topic. Remove the LE.

Ios - Terra

02-01-06, 21:07

Paper Dragon

02-01-06, 21:16

Oddly, there is more RP on the PVP server than PVP, but this is off-topic. Remove the LE.

Presumably because the PvP server has a population of about twelve on a good day.

kurai

02-01-06, 21:21

Presumably because the PvP server has a population of about twelve on a good day.
And they are all drinking tea and saying "Good day, Sir !" instead of killing each other. :D

[runs away cackling madly]

Paper Dragon

02-01-06, 21:25

And they are all drinking tea and saying "Good day, Sir !" instead of killing each other. :D

[runs away cackling madly]

While that was sarcasm, and I should smack you, that is a good point. :p

If the population of a server is going to be low, then of course there won't be a lot of PvP going on, so you won't notice it. The PvP server was a terrible failure.

LTA

02-01-06, 21:44

If the population of a server is going to be low, then of course there won't be a lot of PvP going on, so you won't notice it. The PvP server was a terrible failure.

Wasnt worth swappin the rp world of pandore for... if anything they should've made it a 1 slot RP server and let the RPers have there wicked way with it and see what stories and events appeared why the others would be as they are, kk driven.

5150

02-01-06, 21:56

The shittiest part about PvP is dropping hard earned loot, it wouldn't be HALF as bad if you didn't drop a gay belt or anything like that, back in the day you just dropped a big brown turd (backpack for those of you who don't get jokes.) you paid 5k and BLAMMO back to normal. It sucks enough that you have to wait 15 mins for SI, find somebody to poke you, and get back to the place you were at before you died.

Okay so...

1) No more belt dropping, only negative SL dingleberries would drop a belt. I would try PvPing more often if I didn't loose anything except some time for SI and poke time.

http://smnnews.com/board/images/smilies/limpwrist2xr.gif

Not that I personally care for PvP in NC but isn't this the whole 'risk vs reward' everyone keeps going on about

In other words if you dont stand to gain anything theres no incentive to PvP and if you don't risk losing anything then theres no incentive to have a serious fight

In which case you might as well limit PvP to NF and be done with it!

Ios - Terra

02-01-06, 22:04

Not that I personally care for PvP in NC but isn't this the whole 'risk vs reward' everyone keeps going on about

In other words if you dont stand to gain anything theres no incentive to PvP and if you don't risk losing anything then theres no incentive to have a serious fight

In which case you might as well limit PvP to NF and be done with it!

But there is a risk, the risk of getting gimped for 15+ mins while waiting for SI, Imps, and going back to where you were.

LTA

02-01-06, 22:18

slot 1 saftey was there to encourage it more... i think it spoilt it now as the enconomy isnt what it was...
I remember when rares were always for sale because people were loosing them in fights but coz you could get 30 odd techs per hour it was never a prob and was a lotta fun.... also with the locked gr rules to.

To promote pvp now.... i dunno you gotta try and stop the zoneline fighting, the ppu butt plug domination on zonelines and to be honest make Ops worth MUCH more so many more people consider actually attempting to take one.

xyl_az

03-01-06, 00:32

yes the neptune server was horrible failure... because of the flawed settings... it appeared not a pvp server but high speed LE lvling server. And after people leveled (at high speed) with their LE imps they got bored and left.

Thats why LE is the problem (no-belt drop zones, another crucial one)

j0rz

03-01-06, 03:45

LE should be bought back

condations

U need 100SL to put it back in if ur over rank 30
U need 100 FS with ur own faction to poke the LE back in
U must talk to a ncp to get a license to poke it back in and it costs 100k for the one off use license oe have a one off use LE poke tool that can't be bule printed.
No clan aloud

That would stop people putting then in and out when they don't feel like pvping or OP waring just make it more difficult to put back in people who want it in will keep it in nuff said...

every one would be happy then, People shouldnt be forced to pvp they should have the choice i have no choice on any of my chars and to hell with delating them there allcapped.

sultana

03-01-06, 05:41

Dogface

03-01-06, 05:43

Oddly, there is more RP on the PVP server than PVP, but this is off-topic. Remove the LE.

I dont know what you're talking about, but theres absolutely no role play on the pvp server =/

Ios - Terra

03-01-06, 06:15

People dropped belts "back in the day" aswell. And if you go far enough back, there wasn't a safe slot and people just dropped an item on the ground.

Wrong. Not in 2002.

kurai

03-01-06, 11:27

No he's not. Yes, in 2002.

Foo

03-01-06, 11:44

Belts ALWAYS droped in nc (If u didnt have u LE in)

Liebestoter

06-01-06, 12:48

People dropped belts "back in the day" aswell. And if you go far enough back, there wasn't a safe slot and people just dropped an item on the ground.

I miss those days :(

ZoVoS

06-01-06, 16:30

belts didnt always drop

there was a time that your item would just drop on the floor

Dundie22

06-01-06, 22:16