View Full Version : Shut Up About PPU's
forcefullpower
13-12-05, 15:33
For GOD sake give it a rest about PPU's
How many threads do we need about this.
Moderators Do something about this and combine them all or just delete any one that starts another one.
For GOD sake give it a rest about PPU's
How many threads do we need about this.
Moderators Do something about this and combine them all or just delete any one that starts another one.
Dude - Gag yourself.
Mine was hijacked, after I recounted an incident I had that day and gave my view.
Others had points based on other methods of thinking. They all address different issues if you read.
Bugs Gunny
13-12-05, 15:38
If we all shut up about it KK might actualy start thinking there's nothing wrong with gameballance.
For GOD sake give it a rest about PPU's
How many threads do we need about this.
(...)
Just as many as it is needed...
actually, its the same as with the neptune problem... i think i'll go to make another "fix neptune" thread ;)
/signed ftw.....
No forum in the world needs 6 threads on the same subject. The gm's read all threads.... i think they got the message
For GOD sake give it a rest about PPU's
How many threads do we need about this.
Moderators Do something about this and combine them all or just delete any one that starts another one.
I do agree monks (Not just PPU's) need a fix, but often I just keep hearing the same people playing the same record over and over again.
I had a signature that read something on the lines of "Stop talking about PPU's and Para". I may dig that out again.
Its nice and all if GM's read it, but it'd be better if KK read it :pAnd gave a response..
Bugs Gunny
13-12-05, 15:54
Didn't KK have a clause in their employee contracts that said "When you admit there is a ppu problem you get fired on the spot!" ..... ?
forcefullpower
13-12-05, 15:54
I think i will go make a MK II version of this thread as think we need some more threads about ppu's. Think i'll call it.
I'm crap at PvP and got ganked by a PPU - So going to moan how they are to overpowered.
There's a reason why there are so many threads about ppus. Yes, it's cause there's a huge problem with ppus.
My fucking god.
I can't really care how many threads there are about PPUs because I happen to agree with most of them, but I don't mind other threads either, even if I don't agree with them.
The problem with Monks in general is an ongoing problem that has not had a working solution yet, and usually this kind of things are being discussed and debated until the problem is solved.
It could easily be related to anything, if we just left it where it started about three or four years ago we wouldn't even see the problem fixed.
We offer feedback to the developers, a main reason this whole forum is up in the first place.
tbh i cant see a prob with them, hybs yes, ppus and apus as seprate classes, no. afterall, how many of you capped without help of a ppu? how many of you can get through chaos caves within half an hour? i bet when you fight and theres a ppu rezzing your ass, your not complaining then :P
so yah, give it a rest tbh
Didn't KK have a clause in their employee contracts that said "When you admit there is a ppu problem you get fired on the spot!" ..... ?
Nope there is a clause that states "Don't react to dumb people's responses", but hey, I'm not under contract anymore so look what I did
tbh i cant see a prob with them, hybs yes, ppus and apus as seprate classes, no. afterall, how many of you capped without help of a ppu? how many of you can get through chaos caves within half an hour? i bet when you fight and theres a ppu rezzing your ass, your not complaining then :P
Capped all my characters on main account without a ppu. The only characters I need help capping was my ppu itself.
And how can you not see a problem with ppus?
If ppus were deleted I'd buy some kind of lifelong subscription.
Remove all but newbie parashock spells and create a rare freezer pistol that does a decent amount of para, and make the Thunderstorm have more of an effect rather than f*ck all. There should be some equality/balance as to what all the classes can do. Until that happens, everyone will hump monks, including myself. I just deleted my capped tank to make a monk. Might as well become one of the people I always complain about for the time being. :P
Logan_storm_03
13-12-05, 17:03
aye, the subscription choices will need to go from
1 month
3 months
6 months
lifetime
p.s. got rid of the psi skill and boost medies :P !
RogerRamjet
13-12-05, 18:23
Im just getting sick of the threads because everyones going on and on and on. KK will be taking the PPU issue into consideration, but banging on about it wont speed up the time it takes to come up with a solution that actually works.
If you dont like the threads....dont read them it's that simple.
End of the day its a discussion forum about the game and if people want to discuss the ppu a-lot then they can because thats what this forum is for... discussion about the game.
I dunno how you can get pissed of by a forum or a set of specific topics i really dont. O_o
For GOD sake give it a rest about PPU's
How many threads do we need about this.
Moderators Do something about this and combine them all or just delete any one that starts another one.You could always just ... you know ... NOT READ THEM.
There.
Was that really so very difficult ?
[EDIT:] Yeah ! What LTA said ! (Note to self : read to end of threads before replying)
I don't think OP realised what he's done. He's have just added ANOTHER nerf PPU's thread without even realising.
By saying theres so many threads about PPU's being a problem, this is just another one that KK might read and make them realise even more, "You know guys, i think these people are trying to tell us something about the PPU class.."
Nice one, keep it up OP =)
For GOD sake give it a rest about PPU's
How many threads do we need about this.
Moderators Do something about this and combine them all or just delete any one that starts another one.
So you create another? :D
General rule of thumb. Don't like a thread then hit the back button. No one is gagging you and forcing you to read a thread.
So you create another? :D
General rule of thumb. Don't like a thread then hit the back button. No one is gagging you and forcing you to read a thread.
Thank you!
Now what're you going to do about PPUs?
sanityislost
13-12-05, 20:48
For GOD sake give it a rest about PPU's
How many threads do we need about this.
Moderators Do something about this and combine them all or just delete any one that starts another one.
Yar, just merge the threads...
SiL ..:..
Thank you!
Now what're you going to do about PPUs?
Absolutely nothing :D
since I don't have anything to do with coding/development at all
awkward silence
13-12-05, 21:02
If ppus were deleted I'd buy some kind of lifelong subscription.
Amen to that!
awkward silence
13-12-05, 21:10
Absolutely nothing :D
since I don't have anything to do with coding/development at all
The right answer should have been "ill go ask the guys who Holger" or "ill get back to you when ive talked to the guys in development". Not being rude or telling what you should do tho...
Now be a dear and ask em for me :p
Absolutely nothing :D
OMG conspiracy! You're all playing PPUs at the offices aren't you? Well I say Bah humbug to you sir!
So you create another? :D
General rule of thumb. Don't like a thread then hit the back button. No one is gagging you and forcing you to read a thread.
Oh... :(
*Puts away his manacles and whip...*
Asurmen Spec Op
13-12-05, 23:48
For GOD sake give it a rest about PPU's
How many threads do we need about this.
Moderators Do something about this and combine them all or just delete any one that starts another one.
Uninstall, un subscribe and go to wow
Uninstall, un subscribe and go to wowi have to admit this advice is plainly the right one.
Asurmen Spec Op
13-12-05, 23:56
i have to admit this advice is plainly the right one.
and using the minimal ammount of words, it was hand tailored to his specification.
lets all go play priests in wow...altho ive heard they arent as over powered
The right answer should have been "ill go ask the guys who Holger" or "ill get back to you when ive talked to the guys in development". Not being rude or telling what you should do tho...
Now be a dear and ask em for me :p thats not odin's job, it's niddy's
There's nothing wrong with game balance, only some patching up. I see one thing that definately needs a real U-turn out here, and it's called "mentalities".
I maintain, people that keep on whining all days along about "how ppus fuck this" or "how this weapon fuck that" are just people who don't know how to have fun, or monomaniac noobs (those who think they're leet cause they're good at pvping with one class) that allegedly exhausted all sources of pleasure. Or, you professional whiner reading my prose, maybe you're simply obsessed with perfection, then me say your PAIN does nothing but start :rolleyes:
Somehow, whiners opening unconstructive threads and crying their mom or insulting opponents IG each time they see a ppu blocking their pityful attempts to look nasty, are the FIRST ONE TO RUIN ALL FUN (if anyone/anything does) in that damn game.
Another point, is the day people will stop playing Neocron like they play Double Dragon II and R-Type maybe we make a small step to a so-called "balance". Start with not logging monks 95% of your game time pretending otherwise you can't have fun cause all others do, then we're going to have our first real fair discussion about pvp balance on these forums.
Now about "the ppu question" in general or any "what should we do to fill up our empty pointless neocromaniac lives" question, I use to appreciate some threads when they're free of any agressive or rancour content, written in a "constructive" way, and taking a minimum into account what's been already said and done on the topic early. At least it's very entertaining and a nice cure for hyperactive minds like most of ours :)
Uninstall, un subscribe and go to wow
Threadstarter is not the one who always complain there, afaik :o
This advice may be the right for you, too.
Asurmen Spec Op
14-12-05, 01:39
Threadstarter is not the one who always complain there, afaik :o
This advice may be the right for you, too.
If that was ment to be insultive, nice try.
atleast I can think of more orriginal whining then "dont stop my god mode!!!"
Hes a person ment for WoW not NC
well i have to admit, the fact that 85% (or more) of the posts on this forums are about ppus is starting to be a tad annoying.
but that still doesnt mean there isnt a problem, it means there its one hell of a problem if such a large amount of people are against it...but what i dont see is how it couldve been developing as a problem for so long :confused:
but what i dont see is how it couldve been developing as a problem for so long :confused:
It never developed into one, it has been since uber hybs got nerfed and people clicked on about pures.and pure ppu got a boost ... once they had pure combos with mega glue and nice shields it was a problem.
welll, fast as it may be, that is a development....
so then...with all these ideas flying around, why hasnt anything been done over all this time? even my little bit of pvp experience has made it blatantly aware of a ppu's power (even my pistol spy can survive in combat with a ppu)
so then...with all these ideas flying around, why hasnt anything been done over all this time? even my little bit of pvp experience has made it blatantly aware of a ppu's power (even my pistol spy can survive in combat with a ppu)
Thats what still confuzzles me.
Why hasnt anything been done or even anything said
Asurmen Spec Op
14-12-05, 02:36
Lupus(now dirus) said he was working on it, but I havent seen him in a while
it is annoying to see all these posts about nerfing PPU's. compared to what they used to be ppu's are alot better. oh well people always complain.
Asurmen Spec Op
14-12-05, 02:38
it is annoying to see all these posts about nerfing PPU's. compared to what they used to be ppu's are alot better. oh well people always complain.
Sorry, we just arent able to sit around as people, like you, go around saying there easy mode button is skill.
its true people always complain, even i do... :p
but its also true that under the sea of complaints theres some basis in facts that there is an imbalance (however slight, or huge, it may be)
Sorry, we just arent able to sit around as people, like you, go around saying there easy mode button is skill.
is english your first language?
Asurmen Spec Op
14-12-05, 02:43
is english your first language?
we dun no speak nun dur engish.
are you british?
we dun no speak nun dur engish.
are you british?
I live in Connecticut. The only reason I asked is because I completely don’t understand what that post said. It is a rare occurrence that I just flat out cannot understand what someone else has written.
Asurmen Spec Op
14-12-05, 02:47
I live in Connecticut. The only reason I asked is because I completely don’t understand what that post said. It is a rare occurrence that I just flat out cannot understand what someone else has written.
Hm, I was just seeing, ya dont need to get all upity its just a forum
Hm, I was just seeing, ya dont need to get all upity its just a forum
I understand it is just a forum. However perhaps the reason in general that people fail to see your point of view is because you do not explain your point properly.
i havent read any replies. but there can't be too many posts on THE thing that makes the game unplayable. until it's fixed any other improvements don't mean anything..
I tend to follow the line, after thinking a while that it's like a comunity of say, rodents. Always switching places to where the going is best, there are some people who stay within thier classes and don't really move regardless of change.
Then there are others, who shall we say jump on board the bandwagon? Powerplay if you will. The next class to recieve an edge will proliferate neocron. I wonder what these lot will do when balance is achieved?
Will thier brains explode? Or will they just get used to the fact that they will no longer have a major edge over anyone, adjust thier egos and pick a character for the fun of it, rather than whatever small joy they get from being the "best" and consequently recieving no challenge or enjoyment.
The community cause unbalance, after a lot of thinking, thats my conclusion. PPU buttplugs are only there because they are plentiful. They are only plentiful, because of the powerplay ethic that seems rampant these days.
This power play ethic has in my opinion risen from this, in which I can explain in know other way.
Little whiny bitches.
These guys have some kind of inferiority complex, I don't know, maybe they don't get any action, maybe they get picked on, I don't know, but they come online and suddenly feel that being uber in a scenario that doesn't really exist will gain the respect of thier peers.
Some people actually play to enjoy... it seems the LWB's play to win.
Oh and this sig...
Speedy=win
I'm cut yo face motherf**ker!
Cut Yo FACE!
Another point, is the day people will stop playing Neocron like they play Double Dragon II and R-Type maybe we make a small step to a so-called "balance". Start with not logging monks 95% of your game time pretending otherwise you can't have fun cause all others do, then we're going to have our first real fair discussion about pvp balance on these forums.
there's always gonna be some idiot who runs around on his PPU all day tho, i've even heard people say that 2 normal attackers vs apu ppu is balanced 0o. And this is why KK needs to do something about it, because some people just don't give a shit how they kill people
james_finn
14-12-05, 15:04
there's always gonna be some idiot who runs around on his PPU all day tho, i've even heard people say that 2 normal attackers vs apu ppu is balanced 0o. And this is why KK needs to do something about it, because some people just don't give a shit how they kill people
Dont be so damned rude. I have played a PPU since NC1 retail, I have not chopped and changed once during the time we have been nerfed. And I AM NOT an IDIOT. Tbh the only idiot is the person that cant put up with what is currently in game - imho like it or lump it, stop whining about it. If KK thinks there is a problem then they will fix it.
I tend to follow the line, after thinking a while that it's like a comunity of say, rodents. Always switching places to where the going is best, there are some people who stay within thier classes and don't really move regardless of change.
Then there are others, who shall we say jump on board the bandwagon? Powerplay if you will. The next class to recieve an edge will proliferate neocron.
I think you hit the nail on the head, although there may be problems with PPU's it's partly driven by the community swinging to them.
We have seen this all through NC even in other MMO they have the same problems. From Freezer Tanks to hybrids to PPU's.
Some people will always select the best character to get the edge, maybe a little more damage, a better heal than others and soon the many will follow creating a balance issue.
So along comes the nerf hammer and they move on to the next best char and so the cycle continues.
Surely if you completely balance all aspects then all chars are the same? and diversity of setup would be gone.
Sometimes i wish we were all still pissing about with rifle tanks and heavy combat spies :lol:
james_finn
14-12-05, 15:14
I think you hit the nail on the head, although there may be problems with PPU's it's partly driven by the community swinging to them.
We have seen this all through NC even in other MMO they have the same problems. From Freezer Tanks to hybrids to PPU's.
Some people will always select the best character to get the edge, maybe a little more damage, a better heal than others and soon the many will follow creating a balance issue.
So along comes the nerf hammer and they move on to the next best char and so the cycle continues.
Surely if you completely balance all aspects then all chars are the same? and diversity of setup would be gone.
Sometimes i wish we were all still pissing about with rifle tanks and heavy combat spies :lol:
Hell yeah back in the day that none of us knew how to do a good con setup! Man those were the days....
Absolutely nothing :D
since I don't have anything to do with coding/development at all
Perhaps you should remind KK who keeps them in business? If everyone left NC would die. And some of what we suggest isn't just grade A bull crap, some of it is actually sensable game balancing good clean cream!
[...]Tbh the only idiot is the person that cant put up with what is currently in game - imho like it or lump it, stop whining about it.[...]
to "put up" with this shit thats in the game means either make a ppu yourself or make an apu and get a ppu assplug. this is one way to make this shit balanced, everyone play a monkey.
but guess what, some of us dont want to.
forcefullpower
14-12-05, 16:16
There is nothing wrong with PPU's.
You just don't like the fact that you got ganked by a duo team.
You don't moan when you have one sitting on your arse.
There is nothing wrong with PPU's.
You just don't like the fact that you got ganked by a duo team.
You don't moan when you have one sitting on your arse.
yes I do. when I'm fighting someone and a friendly ppu comes along and freezes my opponent, I usually stop shooting and tell the ppu to fuck off.
james_finn
14-12-05, 16:50
yes I do. when I'm fighting someone and a friendly ppu comes along and freezes my opponent, I usually stop shooting and tell the ppu to fuck off.
Mr Wu if you had read my previous posts to this I have been a PPU since they were implimented fully in retail. I have been through all the nerfs that they have given us. So yes I am a PPU.
I also do NOT use para - again if you had read any of my comments in the other threads then you would know I agree that there is a problem, but I dont think that a sledgehammer nerf will fix it.
Edit: You registered December 2005 - WTF why have you had to put up with it? Or are you a returning "vet".
A simple fix will do. Give them a reticle. I would love to see Apu's not landing a single HL :D And Melee aswell, and make both use weapon lore. Problem solved tbh.
Edit: You registered December 2005 - WTF why have you had to put up with it? Or are you a returning "vet".
Registered to the FORUM December 2005 why cant people just leave forum dates aside and just debate the issue.
I have experience plenty of this ppu put up with it fighting in my last 14 days majority of pvp action i goto has a ppu on one side which complete fucks the fight coz the other side just keep zoning or get bored and fuck of.
People wont moan with a ppu strapped to their ass because usually the other side has one.
PPUS ARE a problem to say they aint... is what i would say blissfull ignorance and the fact they NEED another monk to combat is ridiculous, you shouldnt NEED 1 class to defeat another.
and for the above :rolleyes:
Melee with a reticle :lol:
.hack//sign
14-12-05, 17:24
i love my ppu to much,but i almost never use him :(
There is nothing wrong with PPU's.
You just don't like the fact that you got ganked by a duo team.
You don't moan when you have one sitting on your arse.
Team 1: Two of any non-PPU classes
Team 2: One of any non-PPU class and a PPU
Who will win?
[...] again if you had read any of my comments in the other threads then you would know I agree that there is a problem, but I dont think that a sledgehammer nerf will fix it.
didnt you just say there is NO problem? edit: sorry, that was someone else, you were the one who said "stfu and deal with it" ...
Edit: You registered December 2005 - WTF why have you had to put up with it? Or are you a returning "vet".
yes I am a 'returning vet', have been playing my PE from beta4 until the end of neocron 1, and only my PE. playing a monkey is not an option for me, I'd rather quit again.
Whitestuff
14-12-05, 19:47
Team 1: Two of any non-PPU classes
Team 2: One of any non-PPU class and a PPU
Who will win?
If you played it smart, the non PPU team would win. Just cause people aren't coordinated enough to gank the non-PPU on that team first is rediculous. Then the PPU tries to rezz, nail him. Pretty easy, done it loads of times. It may take you 5 minutes or so, but it isn't impossible.
I think people whine cause it takes more skill than they have to kill a PPU. Could be wrong, but I haven't had a lot of trouble killing PPUed teams. And if you want it balanced, how about balancing your team out by finding a PPU to hunt with. Seems logical to me.
If you played it smart, the non PPU team would win. Just cause people aren't coordinated enough to gank the non-PPU on that team first is rediculous. Then the PPU tries to rezz, nail him. Pretty easy, done it loads of times. It may take you 5 minutes or so, but it isn't impossible.
and if the ppu plays smart you will never win.
I seen a few who have such perfect timing killing them is impossible and i mean impossible...
I know the french know the chap, cant remember his name but i think it was plume aka snakezz, he would have several of us chasing him down for hours antibuffin noob buffing (well trying to when u can beat him by the fraction of a second between the cast)
and tbh half decent ppus would have the 2 loosing, shelter, holy heal, once one falls 1 v 2 its pretty much over
I think people whine cause it takes more skill than they have to kill a PPU. Could be wrong, but I haven't had a lot of trouble killing PPUed teams.
what server do you play on, and whats your name ? I'll happily make a char there and see how easy it is for you to kill ppu (teams). :lol:
Whitestuff
15-12-05, 00:12
Um, to win in a fight, you don't have to kill the PPU. All he's going to stand there and do is heal and not be able to rezz his buddy. I win. Hack his team mates belt while he stands there all like, "Hey LOL ROFL you can't kill me OMG n00b." I like to stand there and be like, "Well, you can't kill me either m8, so I'll be taking your bud's belt and moving along."
Let him rezz his friend, and oooooo another item. :D
You guys need to stop being so upset about not being able to kill the PPU and just roll with the punches a bit. That's pisses them off more than "OMG Fucking PPU, NERFNERFNERF!!!" Totally easy to beat the team, who cares if you don't get the PPU, you shouldn't be able to kill them anyways OR it should take like 5 people all piercing DMG to do it.
Um, to win in a fight, you don't have to kill the PPU. All he's going to stand there and do is heal and not be able to rezz his buddy. I win. Hack his team mates belt while he stands there all like, "Hey LOL ROFL you can't kill me OMG n00b." I like to stand there and be like, "Well, you can't kill me either m8, so I'll be taking your bud's belt and moving along."
Let him rezz his friend, and oooooo another item. :D
the ppu would have to be retarded for such scenario
1st, hes teamed with his buddy so he will simply pick up the belt
or if he's smart he will wait untill u start hacking, then para+DB+SC and you're dead
if you're caught in open area you will be paraed, DBed and attacked by soulcluster - if u have no stealth or some escape route to zone in, you will die too
not mentioning the fact that in such scenario you simply wont be able to kill a warrior healed by a ppu so you will die before anyone else...
Um, to win in a fight, you don't have to kill the PPU. All he's going to stand there and do is heal and not be able to rezz his buddy.
sorry, but thats bullshit. you won't be able to kill his 'buddy' in the first place.
if a PPU gives me holy s/d + holy heal, not even a HL can drop me. I could leave the computer and order a pizza, and you still wouldnt be able to kill me.
but this is just theory. what would happen is that you get freezed, dam boosted and then you die.
I'm still waiting for your character name + server.
sorry, but thats bullshit. you won't be able to kill his 'buddy' in the first place.
if a PPU gives me holy s/d + holy heal, not even a HL can drop me. I could leave the computer and order a pizza, and you still wouldnt be able to kill me.
but this is just theory. what would happen is that you get freezed, dam boosted and then you die.
I'm still waiting for your character name + server.
Ypou weren't at tonights FIght then?
Wargas.
Ypou weren't at tonights FIght then?
Wargas.
no I wasnt, there is no fight night on the german server I think.
since my char has about 125 poison armor I still think I would survive with holy heal, but thats just a guess, never tried that.
but even if I wouldnt: that I'm not able to order a pizza while someone shoots at me hardly means the ppu is balanced, or that its easy to kill someone who has got ppu support. I think thats what you were referring to, as the devourer would do next to zero damage if i'm not afk, and running around.
Ypou weren't at tonights FIght then?
Wargas.
Anton Szander used to shrug bugged wargas of like it was nothing....
Just people dont spec enough poison i think
I like to stand there and be like, "Well, you can't kill me either m8, so I'll be taking your bud's belt and moving along."
I forgot to mention that ppus can kill you, given enough time. dam boost + soulcluster + a nice knife or some rifle or pistol, and you're dead meat if you dont escape.
ppus - you just gotta love them.
Whitestuff
15-12-05, 02:42
the ppu would have to be retarded for such scenario
I've done it before.. must be a lot of retraded, sh*t talking PPU's out there.
They must have changed soul clusters in the last year cause they used to do f*ck all in a fight.
And you keep thinking 1 on 1 in the team. Double team the other guy. If you are both decent at aiming, shouldn't be much of a problem. I don't see what they changed about PPU's in the 8 months I have been gone. They look the same, act the same, smell the same and I used to keep all their friends dead in OP fights just fine and probably would do better at it now that my comp is more teh better. No need to fight in OP's anymore though, got no clan anymore. :(
I'll have to go out and actually try to PvP now I guess, cause obviously they changed something if you guys are whining this much about it. But my PPU isn't uber. Then again I'm 20 PSI from cap...
QuantumDelta
15-12-05, 03:50
Even An APU wont die with a PPU backup.
Actually the class that gains the least from PPU backup is a PE.
Which leads back to self-cast SD.
Win!/runs.
Team 1: Two of any non-PPU classes
Team 2: One of any non-PPU class and a PPU
Who will win?
I really doubt that an apu+ppu team is able to beat easily apu-based-hyb + tank... nvm... yeah, the PPU team will win most of the time.
And so what ?!
I'm sorry but I've never played any videogame (FPS, RTS, MMO) with the kind of balance that you all seem to ask for. Even Counter-Strike or Tetris aren't balanced like this, thanks to god.
Most of you must have forget some simple facts about ppus :
- they can't be good tradeskillers
- they can't hunt alone
- they can't level alone
- they can't find rares alone
- they can't do damage to opponents
- they can't stealth
- they're supposed to have an eye on one to several runners while taking care of themselves
- they have several valuable items in QB that can be looted by opponents
Over this, Judge, you mean that any duo should be killable by any other duo ? I'm sorry again, but the day things are getting this way I'll just quit NC and for sure I wouldn't be the only one.
On the other hand, how funny is it that noone ever seem to complain about the fact that apu+ppu is better than anyclass+ppu (thx to hab and highest dmg output in game)...
- they can't be good tradeskillers
- they can't hunt alone
- they can't level alone
- they can't find rares alone
- they can't do damage to opponents
- they can't stealth
- they're supposed to have an eye on one to several runners while taking care of themselves
- they have several valuable items in QB that can be looted by opponents
Over this, Judge, you mean that any duo should be killable by any other duo ? I'm sorry again, but the day things are getting this way I'll just quit NC and for sure I wouldn't be the only one.
most bulleted points are total crap for obvious reasons.
I'm sorry, I would not be sorry to see you go on that day. Yes, I know many would leave the second they need ability and not PPUs to win... I'd like to think all the people who actually came to play a game based on 'player skill' would return, though.
And you keep thinking 1 on 1 in the team. Double team the other guy. If you are both decent at aiming, shouldn't be much of a problem. I don't see what they changed about PPU's in the 8 months I have been gone. They look the same, act the same, smell the same and I used to keep all their friends dead in OP fights just fine and probably would do better at it now that my comp is more teh better. No need to fight in OP's anymore though, got no clan anymore. :(
Holy Heal/Shelter/Deflector, you won't be outdamaging that. Not too mention if the ppu starts parashocking you.
If you played it smart, the non PPU team would win
erm no u cant not without 5 guys or so not unless they ppu sucks and yes most actually do and most care more about parashocking etc then actually healing.
[...]
And you keep thinking 1 on 1 in the team.
you were the one who said he can fight 1on2 without a problem. but even 2on2 it doesnt change anything.
there was nothing changed, it always used to be this fucked up since ages.
I'm still waiting for your character name + server.
no I wasnt, there is no fight night on the german server I think.
since my char has about 125 poison armor I still think I would survive with holy heal, but thats just a guess, never tried that.
but even if I wouldnt: that I'm not able to order a pizza while someone shoots at me hardly means the ppu is balanced, or that its easy to kill someone who has got ppu support. I think thats what you were referring to, as the devourer would do next to zero damage if i'm not afk, and running around.
Twas in essence yeah.
PPUs are fine :p I'm tellin ya! They need a tweak but they are killable :P as are thier minions. Just bring the right tools for the job. PPU is a specialist job, why not require a few specifics to nuke one?
HAB/Mozzie/Wargas/Gatlings when he runs. It works :p
Not saying the bastards don't need some going at tho.
Bugs Gunny
15-12-05, 12:21
- they can't hunt alone
I was hunting warbots with SC, DB and tl17 sword
- they can't level alone
True for most part yes
- they can't find rares alone
(see above) And no it's NOT slow hunting, plus you NEVER die
- they can't do damage to opponents
Never seen ppus brag how they killed someone with DB, SC, para ?
- they can't stealth
Now that would be something wouldn't it?
- they're supposed to have an eye on one to several runners while taking care of themselves
That's true, and for good ppus it's hard. However most ppus now only look after one person.
- they have several valuable items in QB that can be looted by opponents
But how often do they die? Plus they ALL have 100sl nowadays.
-On the other hand, how funny is it that noone ever seem to complain about the fact that apu+ppu is better than anyclass+ppu (thx to hab and highest dmg output in game)..
They do. There's been many threads about how each class benefits different from tha adition of a ppu. Monks allways benefit most as they become high defence and high offense class, followed by tank, then spy then pe.
I have played PPU fo 3+ years and only for op'ing or harsh lvling i.e Doy tunnel lvl 3, WOC tunnels and such occasional crp raid with a couple of people.
PPU's have been nerfed to fuck since removal of key items and abilities such as Catharsis sanctum.
When organising our clan teams, 23 people + with say 5 ppu's there isnt 1 to a man and only in cases of quick defense of an op will i have one APU to take care of.
PPU's do not make people invincible, people die shit loads in op fights even with Holy SD and a heal running.
This is an MMO (massive MULTIPLAYER) it is teamed based. Everyone is comparing the situation to one on one battles i.e. Deathmatch. If your more interested in honing one on one skills play Quake. NF is where you can go to do this but at the end of the day, if you have 23+ a team like current op wars with no balanced teams (PPU APU Tank - pes/ spies picking off the weaker targets) then you have only an enormous virtual deathmatch map which isnt what Neo is about. Most people complaining about PPU's are PE's
(individual players complaining about team players). You guys want to play on your own and be the best at being a single player, there is a reason we have clans and team function, the whole game is not about being an individual.
The way i see it if your gonna play as a self sufficient fighter a PE then fair play bit dont try and say that the people who fight the large scale wars with a shit load of people are skill less because they have a PPU with them, at the end of the day they may have 5 people to fight at one time and play a class that cannot fully support themselves in those fights. In a ful on op fight a PPU APU needs more skill and team work than any lone PE
PPU is a specialist job, why not require a few specifics to nuke one?
a few APUs can drop a PPU, right. but take 3-4 non-monk classes and a (good) ppu won't die to them. and thats wrong, specialist or not.
I've killed ppus before, but only because they made a mistake or were just plain stupid. when talking about balance, you should consider people with equal skill on both sides.
I think unbalance is inherent in something like a PPU. They're there to tip the scales...
Bugs Gunny
15-12-05, 14:25
It takes just as much teamplay to go out in a 5 man spy-pe team to kill people.
The largest problem right now is that apus get an enormous boost from ppus and that they are also the only ones realy capable of killing ppu buffed players and ppus.
Giving an antibuff weapon to all other classes would level out the playing field a lot.
Seriously there is NO reason at all to go to an opfight with anything but apu-ppu teams. Apus can hack ops, apus can antibuff, do more aoe dammage than tanks and the holy lighting is close to a rifle in range.
Apu hybrid can nibheal and nibshelter.
a few APUs can drop a PPU, right. but take 3-4 non-monk classes and a (good) ppu won't die to them. and thats wrong, specialist or not.
I've killed ppus before, but only because they made a mistake or were just plain stupid. when talking about balance, you should consider people with equal skill on both sides.
True a PPu isnt going to die to non monk classes but there is balance here as the ppu isn't going to kill them either. That is the trade off. I have killed people on my PPU but it goes the same way that they were either very stupid or made a mistake.
Seriously there is NO reason at all to go to an opfight with anything but apu-ppu teams. Apus can hack ops, apus can antibuff, do more aoe dammage than tanks and the holy lighting is close to a rifle in range.
Apu hybrid can nibheal and nibshelter.
BULLSHIT, an op fight of all monks is no fight if the other team brings a combo with most bases covered, Tanks do what they are for, they take the punishment and a team of APU/PPU/Tank is far superior when working together. spies moving around using there heads can bring the enemy APUS down quickly. Take and op fight at foster uplink with a massive battle raging in the tunnel. Each team has two stringhlolds of defense with APU's front, PPUs rear and tanks moving in front of the enemy fire and laying down moonstriker fire and allowing the APus too drop back without losing the defensive line. Also spies stealthing through the melee to flank the enemy monks. also droners raptoring and kami'ing the bulk of people.
Op fights are not monk'o'cron as much as it is said. If my op team had only 4 ppu's it wouldnt have more than 5 APU's as it would be a slaughter, especially with Lore and his boys snapping at our heals
True a PPu isnt going to die to non monk classes but there is balance here as the ppu isn't going to kill them either.
APU vs PPU - just a matter of time until the APU dies, if he doesnt have any means of escaping. ever seen ppus with plasma rifles ? swords ? passive my ass.
and there is no balance. why should a team of 2 people easily slaughter 5+ others only because one of the two is a ppu? thats just silly.
Bugs Gunny
15-12-05, 14:38
Ppu meets apu....
Dead apu....
thats true for other classes too, if they dont run away. how cool is that, this oh so passive monkey can't be killed, but the great thing is, if you run away from him he can' tkill you either.
actually I'm tired of argueing the obvious. saying the same things over and over again, hearing the same bullshit over and over again ("you need more skill") .. and that since years. fucking years.
KK, wake up already.
APU vs PPU - just a matter of time until the APU dies, if he doesnt have any means of escaping. ever seen ppus with plasma rifles ? swords ? passive my ass.
and there is no balance. why should a team of 2 people easily slaughter 5+ others only because one of the two is a ppu? thats just silly.
If an apu stands and keeps shooting a PPU whilst he works the health down then that is his mistake and should be punished for it. you wouldnt try and fight a rhino on your own would you, it would just be daft.
If 5 fighters cant kill one PPU buffed person before they all die, also piss poor play.
If 5 fighters cant kill one PPU buffed person before they all die, also piss poor play.
as a ppu i think i wouldnt be doing my job right if i couldnt survive this amount of fighters.... when rez was as it was i used to crouch in the middle of more than 5 fighters and survive with ease.
While a good coordinated team might drop me, if my timings are as they should be i will never drop, you can get it right where seeing the AB light and time it so your Holy Shelter finishes casting the moment your debuffed, once sheltered the heal tick should just finish and you cast it again.
Edit - And if theres any french people here, tell him about Snakezzs ppu.. plume.... i think he died when he fataled or when there was about 15/20 of us on his back but that was only coz we could have about 5 anti buffs going on him to beat his timing apart from that invincible is a good word to sum him up.
as a ppu i think i wouldnt be doing my job right if i couldnt survive this amount of fighters.... when rez was as it was i used to crouch in the middle of more than 5 fighters and survive with ease.
While a good coordinated team might drop me, if my timings are as they should be i will never drop, you can get it right where seeing the AB light and time it so your Holy Shelter finishes casting the moment your debuffed, once sheltered the heal tick should just finish and you cast it again.
Edit - And if theres any french people here, tell him about Snakezzs ppu.. plume.... i think he died when he fataled or when there was about 15/20 of us on his back but that was only coz we could have about 5 anti buffs going on him to beat his timing apart from that invincible is a good word to sum him up.
maybe if u have 5 people all fumbling around like a blind man trying to fuck a doorknob but i know if i have 5 clannies on a rezzer your not going to get him up
maybe if u have 5 people all fumbling around like a blind man trying to fuck a doorknob but i know if i have 5 clannies on a rezzer your not going to get him up
Whachoo sayin 'bout exiles boi? O_o
Depends on who it is. I defy you to prove otherwise, get a fraps.
If an apu stands and keeps shooting a PPU whilst he works the health down then that is his mistake and should be punished for it. you wouldnt try and fight a rhino on your own would you, it would just be daft.
funny that you compare the class that is supposed to do no damage at all with a rhino.
my point is that the supposedly passive monk is not passive.
funny that you compare the class that is supposed to do no damage at all with a rhino.
my point is that the supposedly passive monk is not passive.
Even a tradeskiller can punch someone to death if they gave them the chance
no. a tradeskiller punching you is easily outhealed, even with medikits. the point is that you have to run from the ppu if you dont wanna die in some cases, outhealing won't work. small difference, no?
oh, and the tradeskiller can be killed easily too. thats the whole point, the ppu can't.
no. a tradeskiller punching you is easily outhealed, even with medikits. the point is that you have to run from the ppu if you dont wanna die in some cases, outhealing won't work. small difference, no?
oh, and the tradeskiller can be killed easily too. thats the whole point, the ppu can't.
My simple point is your not supposed to try and outfight a ppu as they aren't a fighting class, its the wrong type of battle. Just as your not supposed to outfight a droners drones.
With a Droner you go for the droner himself and not the drones.
A PPU can just be left to his own dvices as tbh hes not going to be out to kill you and he probably isn't on a PK'ing run. How often are you trying to duel PPU's anyway i mean seriously have u nothing better to do than pump bullets into a medic??.
- they can't hunt alone
I was hunting warbots with SC, DB and tl17 sword
- they can't find rares alone
(see above) And no it's NOT slow hunting, plus you NEVER die
- they can't do damage to opponents
Never seen ppus brag how they killed someone with DB, SC, para ?
That's right and first time my ppu met your PE, I saw myself killing you with a junk knife if I remember well. What does it prove ?
Come on Bugs, you can't use such anecdotal arguments then reject at the same time anyone's telling that a ppu/apu combo is killable by a non-ppu team. No offense, but this is just hypocrisy.
Same for some other contributers in this thread, who keep on taking examples from 1on1 situations (like "omg a ppu can kill a apu 1on1!!!!oneone") to sustain their global unbalance theory. This is just too easy.
why should a team of 2 people easily slaughter 5+ others only because one of the two is a ppu?
Why not please ?
Just one thing before you answer it : how many time to cap a PE and find decent weapon/spells for him ? Now how many time to cap a ppu and find him decent spells ? You can’t have butter, money of the butter, and dairywoman's ass my friend.
The way i see it if your gonna play as a self sufficient fighter a PE then fair play bit dont try and say that the people who fight the large scale wars with a shit load of people are skill less because they have a PPU with them, at the end of the day they may have 5 people to fight at one time and play a class that cannot fully support themselves in those fights. In a ful on op fight a PPU APU needs more skill and team work than any lone PE
I think all is said here.
[...]
Why not please ?
because the result is what we have, mostly monks running around. ppus because without them your team can as well type /set kill_self 1, and apus because they match best in ppu teams and are the only ones with real means to kill a ppu.
if you dont see that as a problem we probably won't have to argue further, as our ideas of game balance seem to differ alot.
Just some thoughts about PPU`s and the game.
Alot of you seem fine with the way PPU`s work and alot of you wants them balanced. It seems some get enjoyment out this type of play and some dont. Now I haven`t done much pvp since I returned (working on getting to combat ready), but the impression I have from reading the forums is that its not that different from when I stopped playing.
PPU`s effect on a fight demanded of the attacker to concentrate or keep their damage output on the target all the time to be able to bring someone down. If this is still true this means players will mass and attack. Getting 2 or 3 players to take of and flank or coming from the rear will do very little because you need a whole lot more firepower to make it hurt.
Now this in turn meant that two teams attacking each other was like 2 bricks slamming togeter. As a player, sure you moved around alot, but just in a little area. Close enough and little enough to connect your shots with your target and and still close enough to get buffs. Not that different from other mmo`s with turnbased combat if you think about it. Each group is a mass of HP and armor that swallowed any damage except that from the large group in front of you. Trying to outflank was useless because you where of better use in the group.
Now as I said, some people enjoy this and some dont. Fair enough, but NC is being labeled as an FPS/rpg. Why then do we have a class that gives group PvP a more turnbased feel. Shouldn`t a game that market itself as a fps-like provide faster combat(you can die fast and kill fast), more people running around attacking from the flanks, from the rear, more one on one encounters (fights inside the fights).
I understand it for PvM because the AI doesnt provide mobs who take cover. The challenge lies in dealing with the mobs hitpoints and damageoutput. PvP felt almost the same except players moved alot more than mobs.
I used to feel that the Fps part of the game was a little wasted if you know what I mean.
Now if I`m wrong about my assumptions about todays op-fights/PvP then disregard this post.
Over this, Judge, you mean that any duo should be killable by any other duo ?
Pretty much, assuming the same skill for each duo.
Dargeshaad
15-12-05, 21:04
Just one thing before you answer it : how many time to cap a PE and find decent weapon/spells for him ? Now how many time to cap a ppu and find him decent spells ? You can’t have butter, money of the butter, and dairywoman's ass my friend.
Since when has the time required to cap a char and the equipment needed ever been a justification to make a single char (PPU) be able to tip the balance in a fight in the scale that it is happening right now. [ edited ]
I think all is said here.
[ edited ]
[ edited ]
At least I have some, you don't. That's so easy to criticize other people's view and work sitted on a chair staring at your belly doing nothing.
Thank you.
oh come on.
more then enough proof of the problem with PPUs exists on this forum to write a few books; even KK agrees. you're on the losing side of this arguement. it's pointless to keep posting the same things because anyone who doesn't blindly support them to protect their own interests has already realized the issue.
we just have to see if KK ever does anything, ever wants to make the game better or just leave it the same to keep the people playing now for the mess (that PVP is now) stay happy....
it's pointless to keep posting the same things
You're perfectly right, and if you're bit honest you will agree that balanced or not, you and I shouldn't spend time contributing or even reading shit about monks to be called a dumbass by angry kids each time we emit an opinion on this topic.
All have been said, re-said and said again about monks.
That's why threadstarter opened this thread if I read well, and everyone who's older than 3 months in NC should listen to this simple advice from now on, imho.
Shut up about shutting up about PPU's.
QuantumDelta
16-12-05, 03:11
Here's something then:
Even with the current ressurection, two PPUs are able to combat ress should they play correctly, under the force of 5, or even more people (whom are skilled and do not have anti-shields).
It's definately possible to do it solo infront of two-three people now, but I doubt five, if they're skilled.
~I'm sure there are still people around who can tell you about an op fight SSX lost at Chester where I was still running around with 11 people or so chasing me RESSING PEOPLE (This was AFTER the nerf).
After about 3 resses and a few kills eventually someone got a TL 3 deflector on me and that was it.
Zeninja, Eprod, if this were something that 'could be left to the wayside and trusted to KK to deal with' I would think, that would have been dealt with when I was originally battling for the cause.
LOL to think how long ago that was...
well over sixteen months...
We even had a WORKING and VIABLE non-PPU destroying solution too. -.-
Whitestuff
16-12-05, 03:27
you were the one who said he can fight 1on2 without a problem. but even 2on2 it doesnt change anything.
there was nothing changed, it always used to be this fucked up since ages.
I'm still waiting for your character name + server.
I never said 1 on 2. I went with the 2 on 2 scenario that was proposed.
My charater name and server is irrelavent. If you really want to have a go, then send me a PM and we'll try to get together. Of course, you are going to have to let me get my setup on my tank back up as since character transfer from NC 1 I am down my moveon, PP resistor, and CM epic cannon which is what I used against monks. And if you don't mind, I need a team mate cause all the guys I used to play with are gone, save for Selendor.
I'll have a go and I might even change my mind about PPU's, we'll have to see.
Asurmen Spec Op
16-12-05, 05:28
The logic used in this thread is more flawed then michael jackson
Mr Friendly
16-12-05, 05:37
There is nothing wrong with PPU's.
You just don't like the fact that you got ganked by a duo team.
You don't moan when you have one sitting on your arse.
here's the typical person who says they're not a prob at all because he either plays one, or in this case, is part of that duo buttplug team, & in this post, farely often (sad n pathetic y0)
Hey QD. Its me! The first person to ever PK you!
vashtyphoon78
16-12-05, 06:17
The logic used in this thread is more flawed then michael jackson
Amen to that.
Asurmen Spec Op
16-12-05, 06:22
Hey QD. Its me! The first person to ever PK you!
0/2 ?
Your asking me if his rank was 0/2 i presume? No i dont remember he was hunting in aggy cellars
Asurmen Spec Op
16-12-05, 06:33
Your asking me if his rank was 0/2 i presume? No i dont remember he was hunting in aggy cellars
Thats where I was first pked :o
QuantumDelta
16-12-05, 07:10
Your asking me if his rank was 0/2 i presume? No i dont remember he was hunting in aggy cellars
Can't put a name to the event though I know we faced off a few times after :p
Your asking me if his rank was 0/2 i presume? No i dont remember he was hunting in aggy cellars
No, he is asking you if you were 0/2... :lol:
Whitestuff
16-12-05, 09:15
The logic used in this thread is more flawed then michael jackson
I would really like to look at the problem objectively in Neofrag. I think that if we could get an objective look at the problem, we would be able to suggest changes that don't completely destroy the PPU class while still limiting their assistance to other players.
I agree with you, a lot of the logic in this thread is flawed, but that's because most of it is based on the bias of the people making the points.
I maintain that changes need to be made, but not without looking at the problem in more detail than, "OMG we just got ganked by a PPU team." Try going into Neofrag using different weapons, different ammo types, on self casted PPUs and foreign casted players of different setups/ranks/classes and see the effects. And then make posts based on that information. Sledgehammer suggestions like TL3 heal across the board should be less likely with the information gathered there.
Until this info is seen, get a friendly PPU to team with. That's all I can say.
Nerf holy heal, even only foreign cast. And remove para.
Now where is that a sledgehammer nerf? o_O
Whitestuff
16-12-05, 09:23
Removing para. Sledgehammer nerf because you are limiting the PPU's ability to aid his team. Nerf the effects in PvP is what I keep saying and keep PvM effects the same or boost them some, but don't remove it.
And I also stated that holy heal needs reducing as well, probably down to 400% damage instead of the cap. That's around 25-30 HP per tick and on my PPU (since I'm not capped) this is enough to get a person killed while you are either rebuffing them or healing yourself, etc etc. Maybe even make this minor change foreign cast only and keep self cast heal the same. Notice, no where on the level of "TL3 across the board".
Removing para. Sledgehammer nerf because you are limiting the PPU's ability to aid his team.
and what was that suppose to mean???
Nerf the effects in PvP is what I keep saying and keep PvM effects the same or boost them some, but don't remove it.
Yeah, everyone agree with that. Though PVM isnt that much important here (from the point of balancing) as its always very easy regardless with or without ppus. Aye, nerfing/removing holy heals would require a nerf for several cave mobs probably (though its quite possible to lvl in mc5 with a help of blessed ppu, i did that), but thats all.
Whitestuff
16-12-05, 12:20
and what was that suppose to mean???
It is supposed to mean that the PPU is a support class and they play and level by supporting their team? PPU's have been slammed this last year with a few "remove the spell entirely" nerfs, I just don't want to see anymore go needlessly. (ie without trying to modify them to be less powerful, I promise I won't rant about anti-poison sanc and catharsis sanc, though I should) Of course, if they did some work reducing some of the PPU's effects, they could re-introduce those spells also at a reduced effect (which is what they should have done in the first place).
Thanks for bringing attention to my other points though.
Remove all Shockers/Change it to PvM only, whatever so long as it's no longer used in PvP. However, melee shockers might need to say in due to the current netcode. Reduce foreign heals by 50% and to make it fair, give the apus direct damage weapons (HL, FA, etc.) reticles, while leave reticles off their other weapons/spells (Barrels, Antibuffs). I don't see why APUs shouldn't have to keep a reticle lock, while every other ranged weapon class does. Well besides droners, but they have their own problems and advantages on their own.
Hardly a "sledgehammer" nerf :)
QuantumDelta
16-12-05, 15:25
Self-cast S/D = Fixed, tbh.
Though I really can't be bothered to post out the entire arguments for it again.
It's the only fix that actually balances the pvp problems.
Perhaps someone can bump my + Shadow Dancer's old thread on it.
Self-cast S/D = Fixed, tbh.
And all the apus lom to apu hybrid, whats more, the ppus have even more time to parashock.
That would be a massive bump. Probably get a hammerfull from Niddeh.
I don't see why APUs shouldn't have to keep a reticle lock, while every other ranged weapon class does.
It's very simple. APU use psychics power to make his weapon work. He doesn't shoot like with a gun ! He just has to get abilities to concentrate enough energy in his spells with a speed that depends on many things ( we have to notice it) and point his gloved hand on what he want to hit ... No need to aim. Just point his hand :) That's linked with the class of the character.
forcefullpower
16-12-05, 17:17
That was such a stupid reply to make.
"and point his gloved hand on what he want to hit"
What do you think i point a gun at you twat. I point my gun and i click. I have to use the same mental power to point at a target.
I then ask that all recticles be taken of all guns then. We have weapon lore which is for target concentration. Monks sould have the same.
i just dont see the problem. APu can kill a ppu alone in notime..even with pretty skilled one ppu. antishelder and 3 hl hits in row not taking that long...
PPU SHOULD BE god like - so stop whining about them.
people seems not understand that ppu does not have any weapon or such things, only defence so what they should do? just stand and wait to get killed? - hell no.
and whining about apu? they DONT have any defence, but big attack power, 2 together = ubah killing. and this is what it should be. You CANT be the best of the best alone, you need a ppu for that (buttplug)
getting tired for that everyday nonstop whining about every god damn char... its useless. Dont swap your chars like hell and try to pvp with everyone. You just cant do it, you CANT be good with them all, you need to learn to play with em.
being here from 2002 and still love this game.
That was such a stupid reply to make.
"and point his gloved hand on what he want to hit"
Thank you so much....
That's not all i said btw.
What do you think i point a gun at you twat. I point my gun and i click. I have to use the same mental power to point at a target.
I then ask that all recticles be taken of all guns then. We have weapon lore which is for target concentration. Monks sould have the same.
You have a material weapon so you have a corresponding skill for it: Weapon lore. It is not mental concentration (which needs PSU), it's the mastery level to manipulate materials weapons in general... ( I don't think you need a special ability to hold a psi spell in a hand (lol). ). And give a monk a material weapon, he will have a reticle.
It's my point of view. nothing else.
sigh.
The BIG POINT is that [1 PPU]+[1 anything else, but *especially* APU] = [A shitload more than 2 of anything else that doesn't have a PPU]
The problem as it seems most people see it is that the PPU has too big an effect on EVERYTHING ELSE AROUND THEM.
That they are hard to kill themselves isn't really the issue.
forcefullpower
16-12-05, 18:24
"it's the mastery level to manipulate materials weapons in general"
What do you think you where born with the ability to use spells. You too have to learn to master them.
I have to point a gun at someone and wait for a stupid reticle.
I know i'm pointing at my target so why does the gun not.
Does it have a mind of it's own.
So you have an advatage over every other class in the game.
APU's need to be sorted out with recticles
Then APU & PPU combination will be fixed.
QuantumDelta
16-12-05, 18:34
Then APU & PPU combination will be fixed.
Hardly, that would just somewhat gimp APUs.
For APUs who would LoM because S/D went S-C ....well, they don't really deserve to be APUs anyway.
Scaramanga
16-12-05, 18:51
The problem as it seems most people see it is that the PPU has too big an effect on EVERYTHING ELSE AROUND THEM.
That they are hard to kill themselves isn't really the issue.
Well put.
What steps could be taken to reduce the number of PPUs needed at a fight?
In my opinion the removal of parashock in PvP would help move towards this.
Would a reduction in Psi pool, holy heal nerfs, increase cost of Holy Parashock mean more PPUs turn up to counter?
What suggestions are there to support the making of PPUs less essential in PvP?
Dribble Joy
16-12-05, 18:52
The problem as it seems most people see it is that the PPU has too big an effect on EVERYTHING ELSE AROUND THEM.
That they are hard to kill themselves isn't really the issue.
Exactly.
As for remove foreign S/D, though that would balance the classes equally, it would not solve the main PPU issue (heals), so I would rather they be reworked than removed.
What suggestions are there to support the making of PPUs less essential in PvP?
Depends on what you view as the key problem with PPUs and how you view what the role and point of a PPU is.
As I see it, PPUs should amplify the powers of the fighting classes, rathe rthan simply impose PPU abilities on them.
The main thing would be the reduction of all heals down to the same rate of a tl3, with duration increased. This would solve most of the issues with basic PvP and hybrids. Foreign shields would be reworked to either: stack on self casts (issues with bllessed hybrids and ppus getting foreigns though) or add %-hp to the recipiant, menaing all classes get the same proportional defence boost. Db would be moved to tl 90 and the skills reworked so that PEs no longer 'need' it. The skill ould be furtur reworked so that lvl 3 combat buffs are of use to all.
Dargeshaad
16-12-05, 20:47
I have to point a gun at someone and wait for a stupid reticle.
I know i'm pointing at my target so why does the gun not.
Does it have a mind of it's own.
Haha too fucking true :lol: :lol: :lol:
ITS SKOJAX!! Cmon now Q.D
Let's not get carried away and say things that will lose you access to the forums long after this has blown over.
N
Let's not get carried away and say things that will lose you access to the forums long after this has blown over.
N
You mean the ppu issue? Blowing over? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Dribble Joy
16-12-05, 21:57
Ways to get something put away for months/years at a time:
Announce a 'review' by an 'independant' body to look into the matter, pressure from the public has clearly shown there is contention over the issue and as the responsible people you are you are going to do something about it. The review will take 9 months after which the report will be delivered to you for your analysis.
This means by the time the review is over, everyone has forgotten about it, but still assuming 'things are being done'
Let's not get carried away and say things that will lose you access to the forums long after this has blown over.
N i honestly can't remember what i said in that post :confused:
EDIT: now i remember, it was about james finn
QuantumDelta
16-12-05, 23:14
ITS SKOJAX!! Cmon now Q.D
Now that name, definately rings a bell ;)
edit;
You mean the ppu issue? Blowing over? :lol: :lol: :lol:
I loled.
Yeah right. It hasn't 'blown over' in about a year and a half so far.
"it's the mastery level to manipulate materials weapons in general"
What do you think you where born with the ability to use spells. You too have to learn to master them.
I have to point a gun at someone and wait for a stupid reticle.
I know i'm pointing at my target so why does the gun not.
Does it have a mind of it's own.
So you have an advatage over every other class in the game.
APU's need to be sorted out with recticles
Then APU & PPU combination will be fixed.
Master them is draw by psi use and passive/agressive skill. For other classes it's weapon lore and speciality rifle/pistol .... where is the problem ?
APU/PPU doesn't have all advantages ! They have the problem of people who don't like them. It's the game.
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