View Full Version : my own monk ("nerf") - suggestion
Give Monks for high tl-spells line of sight.
How?
Exchange lance-type modules with beam-type modules.
Simple. All the code is there. KK needs to change the tl of the various available modules and think about the exchange for the existing modules.
How would you like such a change?
Dribble Joy
12-12-05, 15:14
Not exactly a nerf or a solution to ppus, but it should have been in years ago.
has anyone ever thought about nerfing PPU's, someone should really make a thread about it ^^
Interesting how everybody jumps at the ppus. When i was writing it, i thought more about apus :-)
Interesting how everybody jumps at the ppus. When i was writing it, i thought more about apus :-)
i know, its rediculous, monks = ppu's these days. as soon as kk listens to all the forum trolls and fucks em up, then its gonna get real funny in game, I cant wait. I think 'be careful what you wish for, you just might get it' is gonna be the slogan of the year
Interesting how everybody jumps at the ppus. When i was writing it, i thought more about apus :-)
Apus can keep their cool looking no-need-for-los spells so long as their defence is nerfed when the ppu becomes involved and Parshock is removed. :)
edit:
I think 'be careful what you wish for, you just might get it' is gonna be the slogan of the year
I can't wait for it happen.
Mighty Max
12-12-05, 16:01
Monk LoS is bs tbh:
If i cast a spell and THEN someone runs to cover, the spell fails. I cant even run after him, because THEN the spell fails.
The shot would have to be simultaneous to the mouseclick/keypress to make this work. And i dont think it is something you want. Beeing hit before you see the animation. You'd cry out even louder.
Tbh, the apu itself without the buttplug ppu is a class many players cant even use for PvM ... thats how overpowerd it is.
If i cast a spell and THEN someone runs to cover, the spell fails. I cant even run after him, because THEN the spell fails.
How would the spell fail? All it would do is cast, then hit the object the person runs behind. LoS spells casting success is not tied into whether or not you "hit" the player.
It would mean spells are just like any other weapon.
Mighty Max
12-12-05, 16:16
If it fails or does not hit - no matter of my skill/actions - does not matter.
As soon as the target sees me casting, he steps a bit aside and im screwed as a caster. I could however run behind him to not let him hide ...
Now do you see a gunner starting to shot 2 seks beforehand?
Th Runner cant know where the target is x sekonds later, how could he know if there is a LOS in that situation. How would i ever be possible to hit someone who is not just plain stupid or has reactions like a 100year old?
It would mean spells are just like any other weapon.
No. A gun shots & shows animation
A spell shows an animation, waits and then shoots.
Start to read please, that was what the post was all about, that it were in deed not like a gun.
Remove Para.
Stop using para then, if you don't like it!
has anyone ever thought about nerfing PPU's, someone should really make a thread about it ^^
I'm threatening to get my Anti-PPU sig out again...
Anway...APU', not sure the swap lance code for beam spell would help with anything.
Tbh, the apu itself without the buttplug ppu is a class many players cant even use for PvM ... thats how overpowerd it is.
Bit confused by that Mighty Max, you saying APU's can't PvM, and yet they are overpowered? My APU can solo most mobs, with a pack of medkits and some cover to hide behind.
Mighty Max
12-12-05, 16:22
Bit confused by that Mighty Max, you saying APU's can't PvM, and yet they are overpowered? My APU can solo most mobs, with a pack of medkits and some cover to hide behind.
Nah meant that a lot of the whining players cant play an APU without dying to the first chalanging mob - in contrast to them saing they are overpowered.
I know to play my APU (without PPU).
With a freqency of 105/min it takes you 0.57 seconds to cast an HL. I don't see
how people would react to the first shot in time to hide from it. The second shot
is a different matter since it's the same for guns. Especially if you take lag into
consideration aswell.
Ahh gotcha Mighty Max, yeah I have to agree with that.
Still I like to know what happened to the almighty PPU balance thread that KK started many months ago.
With a freqency of 105/min it takes you 0.57 seconds to cast an HL. I don't see
how people would react to the first shot in time to hide from it. The second shot
is a different matter since it's the same for guns. Especially if you take lag into
consideration aswell.
Erm, what about the frequency of a Slasher?
Erm, what about the frequency of a Slasher?
I wasnt trying to compare weapons and say this one is better then this or faster
etc etc, I was just commenting on what Max said about people hiding from APUs
fire. I don't think that someone can react fast enough to hide behind a solid object
in ~0.6 seconds, especially if you take lag into the equation.
Monk LoS is bs tbh:
If i cast a spell and THEN someone runs to cover, the spell fails. I cant even run after him, because THEN the spell fails.
(assuming fail = fizzles)
- If someone runs into cover why should my spell hit him?
- Running and successfully casting your spell depends on your ability to runcast.
Nope. IMO char animation starts with activating the module (click) and stops with releasing the spell...
The shot would have to be simultaneous to the mouseclick/keypress to make this work. And i dont think it is something you want. Beeing hit before you see the animation. You'd cry out even louder.
... but at 105/min its useless to see the cast-animation of your enemy. You'll be hit anyway.
Tbh, the apu itself without the buttplug ppu is a class many players cant even use for PvM ... thats how overpowerd it is.
Using 3rd person view and not having los with an apu makes hunting very easy (read: exploitingly easy). Try and see the difference between using a beam module (zero chance for the mob to dmg) and the cqfa (it has at least a chance to hit me) while using terrain for cover.
As soon as the target sees me casting, he steps a bit aside and im screwed as a caster. I could however run behind him to not let him hide ...
With a freqency of 105/min it takes you 0.57 seconds to cast an HL. I don't see
Well good luck getting out of the way.
I hardly think there's enough "objects" to dodge behind to warrant it anyway.
Besides, I'd rather monks were balanced properly anyway.
Erm, what about the frequency of a Slasher?
It's 370/minute. But it's a burst weapon, you gotta divide by 4 for the actual rof. So it's down to 92. That's the frequency all pistols come down to in the end btw. Judge 185/2, Libby 370/4, Earp 92.
And the slasher is now reloading longer than it takes to fire a full clip. o_O
Mighty Max
12-12-05, 16:40
Why do you guys want to remove a screw up with another screw up?
Your points are valid, but it will create another major advantage on the other side.
0.57secs is no 0 secs. If i already have to expect a shot, that a LOT of time.
Using 3rd person view and not having los with an apu makes hunting very easy
What does that have to do with this. thats again a new valid point that has to be fixed seperately. This is not the problem of the LoS but the interface.
:edit addon:
may be this comparison helps a bit to show that problem. the 570ms (best case) is a delay correct? Lag is too a delay till actions are executed? (only caused another way)
Now say you got 100ms ping normally. Would you think you could PvP as good as you have a 670ms ping?
Why do you guys want to remove a screw up with another screw up?
I guess the goal is balance, not screwing something up.
0.57secs is no 0 secs. If i already have to expect a shot, that a LOT of time.
so what are you trying to say? if I know someone is going to shoot at me I can hide behind cover? where's the difference between an apu and a tank for example, in this case? if I know he's gonna shoot at me, I can take cover too.
a monk that makes smart use of cover can avoid getting hit at all - because every other class needs some time to close the reticle, the apu can just pop out of cover, fire, hide again, etc ... thats why they have a big advantage in group fights too, ever tried to keep a target aimed in a crowd of 10+ ppl running around? for an apu its just point+click.
monks shouldnt be treated any different than other classes in this game.
at the moment they are the class that needs the least skill of all - you dont need a line of sight to hit your target, and you dont need to wait for a reticle to close to hit anything at all.
giving monks a reticle and the need for LoS is only fair.
Mighty Max
12-12-05, 17:13
giving monks a reticle and the need for LoS is only fair.
giving tanks,pes spies a 570 delay till a shot executes is only fair
:rolleyes:
Man, am i explaining that soo bad? Don't add more screw ups!
I agree on the reticle tho. No problem at all. But for the LoS the environment isnt suitable _yet_, and instead of ignoring that problem you should find a solution for that too before demanding that change.
forcefullpower
12-12-05, 17:14
There is a lot of talks of monks being nerfed.
There is one single solution to all of this.
All Agressive spells need to have recticles. Simple as that.
Don;t start with all that bollocks about it;s from the mind we don't need recticles. What crap.
Recticles should be there as you would need to focus you mind on a target to hit it correctly. Exactly the same as a gun. You have to concentrate to fire them.
why not just give them a reticle that increases damage depending on how locked the reticle is.
e.g, u lock your HL on someone for a quick click with a wide reticle, you hit but only for a percentage of what the HL can hit for. However if you have a full reticle lock and hold it you get the full potential of HL dmage. Also eliminate the random damage of hl so the skill rewards the user.
This could also apply for an antibuff. If u have full reticle lock the antibuff is far quicker than a glancing shot.
furthermore on the PPU side, PPU's could not just run around tapping heal on everyone for a full effect holy heal. They would need a full reticle lock to gain the maximum potential from the spell... same for foreign sd and parashock. Point and click para is minimal in effect. A ppus job in essence is to fight his own team especially in a fast paced battle as he has to work just as hard as the enemy trying to kill them to keep them alive.
again? :p
them APUs are NOT the problem. It's the PPUs that need to be adressed. (http://forum.neocron.com/showpost.php?p=1917506&postcount=32) APUs might require a slight tweak to compensate the latest firearms nerf.... but APUs are nowhere as imba as it seems.
PE > APU ! :)
them APUs are NOT the problem. [...] It's the PPUs that need to be adressed. APUs might require a slight tweak to compensate the latest firearms nerf[...]
I agree, PPUs are a (much) bigger problem - that doesn't mean that there are no issues with APUs. but I dont have to tell you that, since you stated they might need a 'slight tweak' yourself.
the focus in this thread is on APUs, so where's your problem? I think we can discuss more than one point in this forum at once.
@mighty max: simple solution: remove the 570 ms delay. as I said, treat APUs like any other class.
Make mental steadyness effect "concentration" of monks and give them a recticle it will close quickly with high amount of Mental Steadiness much like weapon laws hold over gun users.
Make mental steadyness effect "concentration" of monks and give them a recticle it will close quickly with high amount of Mental Steadiness much like weapon laws hold over gun users.
No, Monks already have Psi Use and PPU/APU to effect the casting ability of the spells.
No, Monks already have Psi Use and PPU to effect the casting ability of the spells.
Monks need a recticle and some way of making it work like guns especially if the reload times are to stay as is to try and regain just a little balance.
Monk Recticle > LOS
As it also gives faster characters the ability to dodge APU shots instead of being hit when they are under the crosshair for about a tenth of a second, it will also reduce the ability for PPUs to just catch their team mates for healing/buffs as they're gonna have to stay still to get it sorted.
Monks need a recticle and some way of making it work like guns especially if the reload times are to stay as is to try and regain just a little balance.
Monk Recticle > LOS
As it also gives faster characters the ability to dodge APU shots instead of being hit when they are under the crosshair for about a tenth of a second, it will also reduce the ability for PPUs to just catch their team mates for healing/buffs as they're gonna have to stay still to get it sorted.
I agree, read my post about three above.
edit: 6 above :eek:
I agree, read my post about three above.
edit: 6 above :eek:
lol Then why the
No, Monks already have Psi Use and PPU to effect the casting ability of the spells.
Comment?
Personaly i think MST would be a good counterpart for WEP in terms of PSI and then would indirectly nerf PPUs as they would have to spec for the level 3 combat spells (heals, s/d etc) spells and have to stand around to cast them or run about casting blessed ones.
PPU Problem sort of almost solved-ish, lol
lol Then why the
Comment?
because the point distribution on monks is correct so they dont need to be throwing extra points into a skill in order to manipulate the spell cast ability.
the reticle shoud just be there and improves along side frequency through psi use just as guns do for wep lore. Therefore, the higher the int and psi use the quicker ret lock u get, by adding importance to psi use (as it is now, once spells are capped it is only for a greater mana pool) it would reduce the hacking/still spell capped monks we have now creating more op war diversity. a psi use of 220 should cap ret lock speed on the highest tl spells which will cripple monk hackers even with spy 3 and dolinskin. Poking 115 would still be possible
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.