View Full Version : [CbT]hyb fix
1 apu point = -1 ppu and vice versa
totaly eradicating hybs with only 60%s on there modules
didnt they used to have that exact thing? and everyone wanted them to reduce it?
yes but now its needed :P
it only used to be a 0.3 if i remember
So you want... more PPUs?
Just put that 5% apu/ppu nerf thing back in, that should do it already. Blessed hybrids are still too strong then but it'll nerf APU hybs enough to get em in line with the other classes i guess. And it's mostly APU hybs you see these days. One good thing at least. o_O
There is a simple reason you only see apu hybrids, even if the blessed ones are next to indestructible: apu hybrids are still strong, with next best in defences after a blessed hyb, but their damage is great and can kill a lot of runners at once. The blessed one cant. Besides dueling a blessed one takes so long, but in general apu is versatile while blessed isnt and people gets boring. No matter how controversial this is, we are not in danger from blessed hybrids...
well i dont even think apu hyb is balanced right now, because of the reloading changes..
they were unballanced before that as well. posted setups prove this already, since there's no reloading effect simulated in neoskiller. the reloading issue just made them even more unballanced
The reloading issue isn't much of an issue, tbh.
Dargeshaad
08-12-05, 08:56
The reloading issue isn't much of an issue, tbh.
Correct, monks are the issue, tbh. :lol:
The reloading issue isn't much of an issue, tbh.
The reloading issue IS much of an issue to me. I guess it is also much of an issue for many more from what I also see in the forums, which is the majority. Here is the justification:
As rifle spy, its needed some 5-6 secs to fully reload a HL or dissie. During this period you cant use anything, no stealth no heal, and yet slow down from your weapon. Some would claim that 5-6 secs is nothing, yet for such a vulnerable character it means life or death. Just imagine what para/DB can do in 6 secs Koshinn. Simply viewed from this angle therefore, reloading times are fatal.
Plus there is an issue of ballance against monks-melees-droners
Reloading is not an issue to monks-melees-droners ;)
I can reload a judge in about 1.5 seconds on a bad day. The argument you make is like... "nerf PEs because they run too fast and I can't hit them". It's a personal issue, not a game balance issue.
i can reload slasher in 0.5 seconds every day.
the reload is "still" bugged.
yes, and I can theoretically reload in less than that, 0.9 i presume but:
1. this is an old bug (see: exploit) and therefore I ask from Dirus to disable this asap, unless we encourage exploits in this game which i hope not...
2. there is a barrier at this time which I dont know if it's a windows/keyboard/driver problem or just this games ( I believe its neocron's) in which you aren't allowed to press more than 2 simultaneously buttons at any given time. the 3rd button pressed simply does nothing. The method you propose invlolves more than 3 button presses, which means sometimes you just fail
I can reload a judge in about 1.5 seconds on a bad day. The argument you make is like... "nerf PEs because they run too fast and I can't hit them". It's a personal issue, not a game balance issue.
It's a game ballance issue that entered the scene after the reloading issue. Tell me the reasons why you stand behind the new reloading routines so I can understand your real position
Bugs Gunny
08-12-05, 09:56
Yes, but is that the "legal" way? :-)
Either something has to be done about monks NOW or the reload has to be fixed.
I personaly know of 3 people who came back and quit for that sole reason and one person in fetish who quit because of it.
Maybe KK's idea of ballancing the game is making everyone apu-ppu teams?
because it doesnt change anything.. reloads are actually faster than before 2.1 which makes gun users.. better. :rolleyes:
Bugs Gunny
08-12-05, 10:04
Well, i realy don't like the idea that some gunusers can skip the whole reload issue while others are stuck with it. Fun pvp is ballanced pvp and things are completely torn out of their proportion ballancewise.
[ edited ]
Ya.. it's weird that some gun users are better off now than before, while some are much worse off. Honestly, the gun designers in-game (A&W or TT) should've made guns that reload fast. Who has time in a battle to open a catch, pull outhe plasma cell on a holding arm/receiver, pull out the empty cell and drop it, pull out a new cell, stick it on the arm, push it back into the gun and lock it in place again? I mean c'mon, just drop it out and put another one in is much faster. We should sue TT for faulty weapon design.
Either that or remove the exploit and make lowtech guns reload very fast, like 2 seconds max... that'd give an advantage to lowtech users... then double the ammo count on TC rifles and cannons (pistols already did that long time ago) so you have to reload less and slightly buff the damage up.
All in all we all have to agree in some fundamental game ethics, I can't just accept that because I'm a vet I have a benefit over newcomers that happen to pass by to test the game. It's just a question of time before they leave again for a more firm (rulewise) game that doesnt cheat like that. People are not boxing sacks, and every single runner counts. Otherwise it will happen whats happened in Neptune
Bugs Gunny
08-12-05, 10:26
Couldn't agree more.
We had something that worked before EVO 2.1
Now we have something that needs a lot of work....
i personally dont think apu hybs where overpowered i have killed my fair share and they do take alot of damage even with TL 25 s etc more then a pe for the most parts BUT with the new reload time they do have a great advantage and i would love to see old reload times come back as well thats all that would fix the apu hybs i think
I have to say that there has to be something very very wrong with the game mechanics, if people want to exploit just to reload a fucking gun..... Geez.
Yes, but is that the "legal" way? :-)
bugs, before evol you were able to abort the reload by switching to the heal for example, activate your weapon again and its fully reloaded.
personally i think that was a bug as well. and everyone was using it.
i think this "bug" is like the drugflash-relog "bug".
still bug abusing, but its a little bit legal ;).
this is not official, but thats what i think.
Bugs Gunny
08-12-05, 12:35
Well i only learned of this "feature" recently.
And if it was used before, i doubt it made a lot of difference with the reload times that were in use then.
Currently however it makes one HELL of a difference.
bugs, before evol you were able to abort the reload by switching to the heal for example, activate your weapon again and its fully reloaded.
personally i think that was a bug as well. and everyone was using it.
i think this "bug" is like the drugflash-relog "bug".
still bug abusing, but its a little bit legal ;).
this is not official, but thats what i think.
cheating bastard... i take my DF's like a man and have died quite a few times to them
selfedit, next time i really have to read his post ;)
zovos, have u ever abort your reload because of switching to heal before evol ? cheating bastard :rolleyes: ...
I'm starting to believe it's not an "insert forbidden word".
Give the mods history of editing anything related to an "insert forbidden word"
you would think they would edit all the people saying you can reload like this
and that. Since they haven't I'm thinking it's OK to do so.
Bugs Gunny
08-12-05, 13:53
My guess is they are still discussing the whole matter and if they should return it back to how it was or not.
Most likely they are just seeing what happens and if people will stop complaining about it.
For them that's the easiest fix... shut up untill the complaints go away.
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Reload is fucked, ballance is fucked and it should be acted upon.
imo its really sad if we can just puzzle about what they are going to do with our characters.
:eek: You try reloading a CS during a fight not only does it slow you down it takes like 8 seconds they ruined my fav pvp char and regreating coming back i cant see myself staying for long :( they nerfed my tank to hell and back and why they wasnt that good before.. hell in nc1 they was one of the most under powered classes... even thou i did ok with my tank i do crap now a meelee allmost had me yesterday and he was hardly even hitting me...
Bugs Gunny
08-12-05, 14:25
This sentiment is shared by a lot of people who returned to check it out.
Of the old BLOOD clan, none are staying. The reload was the biggest complaint and then the soullight system, the loggin bugs, fatals and a few had realy bad fps now.
Mr Friendly
08-12-05, 15:08
-= hybrid fix =- (http://forum.neocron.com/showpost.php?p=1913734&postcount=62)
Mystic-Crusader
08-12-05, 15:29
don't make hybrids impossible to make.. some r fun to fight. Only problem i find is a ppu can keep healing/buffin loads of ppl and a apu can keep dealing the damage again and again in quick successing.
With the new reload factor it means a rifle/pc/hc user can probably shoot 1-1.5 clips before an apu can drop em (if they have decent con ofc)
If they introduced a time limit in between taking boosters it would solve the problem. If an apu missed a HAB it would be screwed like a tank while reloading. Rezz would be more skillful coz u can't just keep poping them out likes there no tomorrow. PPU's can't heal/buff too many as they will just run out of pool.
Have the time limit about 10-20 secs.
Only problem i see with this is that it may increase the amount of ppus as more r needed to look after a team.
It would mean that it would still be point and click but if u don't take care in what ur clicking at ur'll drain too fast.
Also would help in the hyb problem coz they can't keep casting spells like a ppu.
KK's answer is if something is over powered then overpower something else to give them something different to whine about.... Thats one of many reasons i have 2 different MMORG's ordered for x-mas.
With the new reload factor it means a rifle/pc/hc user can probably shoot 1-1.5 clips before an apu can drop em (if they have decent con ofc)
apus can kill u while reloading :rolleyes: .
test it, try a face2face.
Dribble Joy
08-12-05, 15:35
Remove the heal rate of a blessed heal and hybrids are instantly much more balanced. As I have said before, bust all heals down to tl3 heal rate and you suddenly get a much better looking PvP scene (holy heal self cast could be kept as is if the PPUs are adamant about being unkillable).
Mystic-Crusader
08-12-05, 15:54
apus can kill u while reloading :rolleyes: .
test it, try a face2face.
huh? o_O
i know an apu can kill me.. i said with evo2.1 and the reload i can now only get off 1 clip maybe half of another if im lucky and if i have decent con (questionable :lol: )
only real problem i see is the realod issue wich is bad fix that and everything is cool
If you think something might be an exploit, theres a good chance that it may be and you should inform exploit@neocron.com about it. What you shouldn't do is wait to be told so much, and discuss it casually on the forums. Remember Nidhogg's policy on discussing exploits? And also this thread is about fixing hybrids, not the reload issue, so stay on topic.
/edit: Any more talk of "The E-word" and this thread is going bye-bye.
nvm, just noticed no more e-word.
Lodar, you got mail. :)
Bugs Gunny
08-12-05, 16:18
That clarifies it :-)
Anyway Lodar, the fact that apu hybrids are now extremely overpowered is now mainly because of the reload, so the reload is actualy on topic.
Mr Friendly
08-12-05, 17:23
:eek: You try reloading a CS during a fight not only does it slow you down it takes like 8 seconds they ruined my fav pvp char and regreating coming back i cant see myself staying for long :( they nerfed my tank to hell and back and why they wasnt that good before.. hell in nc1 they was one of the most under powered classes... even thou i did ok with my tank i do crap now a meelee allmost had me yesterday and he was hardly even hitting me...
very true, also if u can remember the HL didnt used to be nearly as strong as it is now. imho, the cs & rav need a tiny dmg boost to counter the boosting of the HL (which was so apus would now be able to kill someone b4 dropping over ded)
exploit exploit exploit exploit
:D incase u didnt guess thats a thread closed by thread starteres request ;)
i was just anoyed at people complaining at hybs ingame at that second in time n posted the best way to make it totaly imposible to hyb. feel free to close now ;) its not exactly on topic anyway
Transformer
09-12-05, 02:00
i promise...i try to take these monk threads seriously...but all i ever read is "wah wah wah, i can't kill the silly hybrid....wah." its not that hard. just get a lowtech buddy (as long as its rifle....those pistols are pea shooters) and your good to go.
i promise...i try to take these monk threads seriously...but all i ever read is "wah wah wah, i can't kill the silly hybrid....wah." its not that hard. just get a lowtech buddy (as long as its rifle....those pistols are pea shooters) and your good to go.
So by your definition hybs are not overpowered because you can bring a lowtech
rifle friend to help you kill him? ....... riiiiiiiiiiight....
Transformer
09-12-05, 02:33
no i'm just helping because that's what hurts me...even when i'm not on my hyb i don' have a problem fighting hybs....i just think the problem are ppu's. only an opinion though.
// i was a bit cranky before...but now i have food in me tummy! yum yum
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