What's the point of rifles?

[scarshapedstar]

They're supposed to have great range vis a vis pistols, but I've seen plenty of pistolers sniping warbots hundreds of yards away and never missing. I guess I can hit things outside the draw distance if I'm lucky enough to hit the right pixel, but I'm kind of wondering why I'm sacrificing damage and pvp ability for nothing.

[Ticallion]

Uhmmm they look pretty? But yeah there is an issue with the ranges i guess, but im sure some people would just rather preffer rifles.

[LiL T]

Range is linked to aiming, that is why the pistols aim out so far so they can lock target fast up close, pistols have more recoil and miss more.

[BlackDove]

Aye. Main downside to rifles is speed really though. Pistoleers have it better in that department.

As far as range and damage goes, I'm a Rifle PE mainchar, but that was before things were jacked up, when RoG and PE were sort of kings.

I still remain a Rifle PE with Healing Light, but I'm not sure werther it's beneficial or a downside when compared to a Slasher PE, etc.

[Scanner Darkly]

I think you need to try playing a rifler.

- Rifle reticles close a lot faster than pistols at range
- SH is now a true sniper rifle that allows you to see things way beyond the "naked eye"
- SH can be silenced for silent hits - can be deadly if people lose concentration even for a short while
- HL is one of the best weapons in game, at range
- rifles allow for a different style of play to pistols, believe me sniping at range is a lot more effective with a rifle than a pistol, even if both reach (the pistol will miss a lot more, and a moving target is a lot harder to hit)
- up close, a rifle, unless in the hands of a really skilled individual, should lose out to an equivalent pistol, mainly due to the lower speed when moving with a rifle.

[Dribble Joy]

The speed reduction with rifles, as with cannons, is unapparent to those fighting them, and besides, balance is (should be) done with all possible skill in mind, whereby aim is perfect, and therefore movement speed irrelevant.

Pistol range IS too high, the probalem being that recticle closure speed and range are linked, if pistols are reduced to what they should be (no more than 50m), then they won't even reach full lock at point blank.

[PsionicBuddha]

Pistols are balanced in my opinion. They compare well with cannons, melee and PSI. Rifles are the only weapon type I have never used, but if they seems weak then perhaps it is rifles that should be adjusted, not pistols.


Keep in mind however that from a Tanks perspective, HC Tanks run extremely slowly. To the other person however they do run quite fast. I suspect that this may be a similar case.

[eprodigy]

healing light is fucking ugly now though.. cant be used atm

[kurai]

- SH is now a true sniper rifle that allows you to see things way beyond the "naked eye"
- SH can be silenced for silent hits - can be deadly if people lose concentration even for a short whileUmm ...

Gotta take issue with those 2 points.

Nothing has changed with regard to engine clipping plane range issues (ever) or the mechanics of how the SH and it's scope works (for over two and a half years).
With the scope enabled you can only see exactly what you can with the naked eye ... except bigger. If it's not within the "draw distance" of the engine un-scoped, then you won't see it with zoomed scope either.
Don't be misled by the stated range in the rifle info screen either - although it says something mad like 3km you still wont be able to hit anything further than about 600m away. The 3km is an artifact of the way reticle lock speed and accuracy is calculated ;)

As far as silencing goes ... it's only a local issue.
The `range` at which the firing sound can be heard, silenced or unsilenced, is exactly the same ... about 50m or so. Just the volume of the sound effect is lower (obviously), so might possibly get missed in a busy fight.
Past 50m the firing of the shot will not be heard, silenced or unsilenced.
The secondary issue of the target hearing the shot *hitting* them is more problematic - sometimes they will, sometimes they wont. The hit being silent seems more common at longer ranges, but it's not an absolute.
Whether the SH is silenced or not seems to have no bearing on it.

I, personally, *do* have my SH silenced ... but that's just to avoid giving myself a headache, not for any game advantage reason :D

[IceStorm]

I'm kind of wondering why I'm sacrificing damage and pvp ability for nothing.Because they look cool compared to pistols? That's why I use rifles, personally. Well, that and the hope that one day KK will fix the engine to support a range that only rifle users can reach.

I'm not holding my breath.

[vashtyphoon78]

Icestorm you bring up a point ive been pondering a while...i wonder if KK could meld 4 zones into one? and maybe just have it still divided so it shows J01 -2 depending on where you are in the zone...this would truly make NC better, and make rifles a bit more realistic.


ive been a proud user of the rifle way of life for 3 years now. still going strong.

[IceStorm]

this would truly make NC better, and make rifles a bit more realistic.I can't see across a zone now. I'd be happy being able to see from one corner of a zone to the opposite corner.

To put this into perspective, with an SH or Redeemer I should be able to stand on the top of the GR hut at Gabanium and shoot the warbots that spawn down in the valley a bit past the DoY tunnel entrance (not the ones to the left, the ones that spawn straight ahead). I can't because the engine can't handle distances greater than 500 to 600m.

[SorkZmok]

Lomming my PE to rifles right now, i miss having a rifle character.

They're sexy. And pistol range needs a nerf. I just wish they could do this without screwing the aiming, reticle speed is tied to range. At least it was. o_O

[yavimaya]

I can't because the engine can't handle distances greater than 500 to 600m.

Ahem, as far as i know, the engine can handle more - not sure what the max is - however KK have limited the view distance substantionally so people with pieces of shit PC's can play without whinging.

All i can say is it makes it look shit, and yes it stuffs up rifles.

[trigger hurt]

- Rifle reticles close a lot faster than pistols at range


A pistols range should not close at all unless within a specific range. Prior to cancelling my account way back, I had a BoH spy and a HL spy. Both could snipe warbots, players, whatever from equally long range. If a person chooses pistol based combat, they should be required to be up-close and personal with what they are fighting.



- SH can be silenced for silent hits - can be deadly if people lose concentration even for a short while


The deadly way to kill someone with a silent hunter is to tag them once for a massive amount of damage then snipe them with an HL before they realize what is going on and hide behind a tree or even better...lag right up to where they are standing behind you. This was a lot more fun when SH's could be spirit mod'd. If the person has a ppu shoved up their butt though, forget about it.



- rifles allow for a different style of play to pistols, believe me sniping at range is a lot more effective with a rifle than a pistol, even if both reach (the pistol will miss a lot more, and a moving target is a lot harder to hit)


This depends. There are no truley accessible sniping positions in this game where hiding gives you a benefit. If a spy can get up to it, so can anyone else. For me, ideally, a sniping spy should be accessible by only another sniping spy who tracks the other one down to kill him. What would be really nice is to see a damage bonus added to all of the rifles determined by the distance the sniper is from his target. Nothing huge that causes 2 shot kills, but an additional bit of damage when I'm tagging people that are supposedly miles away. At the same time, fighting up close will deal significantly less damage.



- up close, a rifle, unless in the hands of a really skilled individual, should lose out to an equivalent pistol, mainly due to the lower speed when moving with a rifle.

For the SH/HL/Redeemer, this might be so. SH has too long of a recharge time to be useful in close quarters. HL is kinda iffy as i've seen it used really well in close quarters, but it excells in long distance combat. Redeemer...well...i've used it to snipe people before in op wars. It did a good bit of damage, but nothing to be proud of. I think most of this is because Redeemer seems to do mostly force damage and everyone seems to have tons of FRC resist.

Then again, making redeemer do more xray wouldnt really help either. Other guns like termi/pe and first love are far more useful in close quarters than they are in long range combat. Sniping with a first love is frustrating because you typically only land 1 or 2 bolts, occasionally 3 bolts and very rarely you land all 4.

To me, rifles don't really need a boost in damage. Instead, they need a boost in accuracy at long and medium range.

[Crest]

Its like, How can a plasma wave have the same range as a sniper rifle ?

I can go head to head with a tank, and he has the same range as me, yet I need to spec tons of weapon lore to achieve my accuracy, but he does not have a lot to spec.

Pistols, should be killer short range, but either be very inaccurate long range or have the range trimmed.

Me - I moved back to silent hunter, given that you need to reload new guns and it takes the same time, SH always took that amount of time anyways, so its become a option again ...

[Fero]

good topic.

Anyone tried shoting down the Cycrow mountain point ?
All one can see is small clouds moving around fast and disappearing.
Humorous. WHy ? SH is totaly useless since ppl DO move, scoped HL is a soap opera plus clouds. After a few minutes it simply pisses you off. Coming closer kills the purpose of being rifler.
:mad: :mad: :mad:
view clipping is very limiting. :(